Can't decide on property, we want our cake and eat it too
 

We sold a nice property on NewFound lake recently, half regret it now. It's really hard separating the property itself from the memories attached to it. But we want something on the lakes for sure.

Newfound property was on a southwest corner of a bay so the house faced east (very little sun), but the beach faced north or northwest a little. So the beach got sunsets from for about 2 months. The season always felt so short. The beach got the wind and the house was protected.

We are looking all over all the lakes. Including the islands.

There are some properties on Winni on "the broads". Gorgeous clear water, break walls, sunsets year round. But how often is it temping to swim in? We know from newfound that if the prevailing wind (from northwest) was above 5 mph, it was not a swim day (unless 95 F out), until evening anyway. But wind in any other direction it was pretty calm. Most evenings it calmed down. It looks like calm days on the broads would be more rare (wider range of wind direction that generates chop) and not sure how "calm" an evening typically is on the broads.

We are also not sure about a house in the sun all day. Some are nestled in the trees some aren't. We've had that exposure before. Wood siding checks like crazy. Needs paint every 5 years etc. Our spot on NewFound was great that way that the house was not so exposed but the beach was (but a short season). There is nothing on Newfound available and if it does, it's gonna be a bidding war and probably go above $1.5m if it's private and has sunsets.

There are a few spots that are the best of both available on Winni, like our place on newfound. House protected but sun on other parts of the property when you want it. Evening Sun probably until mid September. Problem is, it's on an island. We are worried about overpaying and being hard to get rid off if the island life is not for us. We read the island threads. Lot of very happy people. But the happiness seems more to do with the lake life than the island life specifically. We know lake property is great almost where ever you are :). Our stuff is in a pod. We'd like to salvage the summer, if possible. But that's not an absolute requirement.

Next summer could be worse in terms of availability of a lot better depending on what happens with COVID.

The calm "deep" coves on Winni don't look tempting to swim in. Dark bottom and/or weedy cloudy water. We almost bought a nice house on NewFound that was on a marshy area. But we couldn't deal with the dark bottom and cloudy water after having crystal clear water.

We are looking around $1 - $1.5m. But good places are getting scooped up fast.
If it's on the high end of that there are properties that have a cottage or in law apt that can help offset cost.

We are trying not to rush due to lack of availability but we are struggling. COVID is really skewing things this season. Properties that sat 2 years now have 5 offers on them.

I think what we really want would cost $3m. So we have to compromise somewhere. Our property on NewFound was on the new side as well. New can be a curse too, because you want to keep it nice.

Deal with the broads? We'll get used to it and the sunsets, long days, and long season make up for it. Easy resale if for some reason we need to sell. Yes, I know we should rent first. But that could take years to learn what's best. We know a fair bit about the lakes. But surely not everything.

Deal with an island? Gotta buy a big boat. Had a 20ft Tige on NewFound for 20 years. But I think Winni needs at least a 23ft on an island. Also worried about parking at a rented (seasonal) slip. We have researched that (might have to park aways on busy weekends but there is enough parking). island still even with big boat, storage and slip would be significantly cheaper than NewFound was. Newfound taxes were very high ($16k), part of the reason we sold. That tax seems cheap to me now. island might work because I can work remote a lot (100% right now due to COVID).

Also Northeast side of Winni is cheap on taxes (Moultanboro and Tuftonboro). But there seems very little for grocery stores and restaurants (long ride by car or boat). Much more on the west side (that we frequented from NewFound and familiar with). Wolfborough is nice but super expensive. Taxes are very high on west side (Meridith and Gilford). Alton area is a reasonable balance (close to stuff, not far to drive from MA, not bad taxes), but would probably end up on the broads (maybe).

Sorry for the rambling. I know only we can decide but I'd be curious if folks had addition thoughts.

Also one note. I sold my Tige boat last year. I was getting little nervous of water skiing at 61 and getting hurt with bones that don't heal so quick. We had a nice beach so we didn't need to head out to a sand bar or anything. We have a Hobie Tandem island boat that we loved and just had that. But I missed being able to motor out now and then, we were considering another smaller motor boat (maybe even an EV one ;) ). Tige was too much boat for the amount we used it. Loved that boat though, horrible on any chop though. Also it's mostly my wife and I so we often didn't have a spotter. We've tried to move towards being more green. Have solar in mass and two EV's. Our net energy bill is -$2000.00/year (i.e. we make money) That all goes out the window if we go with an island. Big boat and swap one EV for probably a Midsize SUV (which we had before). It's not a huge deal but it makes us feel a little guilty.

It sounds like you are going to have to settle for something less than what you already had. Not to dig the knife in any deeper but I would love to have had your problems on Newfound Lake.
Good luck with you're search. It's a sellers market right now.

PM sent...

Dan

Just viewed (heard about) a 1935 built camp sell for $1.1 million in April 2020.
Then resold for 1.450 million in June 2020.

Off lake, heard about 2 homes off lake that sold for over asking price.

Unless you have children or grand children to entertain. Just purchase a nice home off any lake.

In hind site I would too. But I didn't get into all the problems.

Road to it was steep and would wash out every moderate T-Storm. I had a tractor to fix it, and could fix it in 20 minutes. We could have paved the road but it would be expensive. And was concerned it would feel to residential.

Because it was a on south cove I'd haul 3-5 trailer loads (5k lbs Gross wt trailer) from Ice out to middle of June. A lot of work. Often spent half my weekend hauling stuff away.

It was a 3 level house (Washroom in Finished Cellar and Bedrooms on 2nd floor). And another level (and a half) to the water. My wife is slightly handy capped. She managed it, but it was a lot. We had a golf cart she could use to get from cellar level down to water.

We could not have garage. Cars covered in sap and pine needles got old. Even a car port would have been tricky on this site. You had to back down the steep road to get out. Which was a compromise and that was never an issue for us or guests.

Septic was newish (1996, same as house) but not state approved. And labeled as 2 Bedroom seasonal by the state. We lost a buyer because of that (we didn't even know until we got the septic review). But next buyer accepted it.

Property also had a very old boathouse which was cool. I used it for storage because there was just no place to put stuff.

I could launch my boat from the property which was feature nice too. 230 ft frontage. 120 was sandy and gradual and all sand everywhere. Never needed to bring in sand.

Taxes as I said were high.

Sun was limited. To get that sunset for 2 month I mentioned above, my neighbor allowed me to put my dock right up to their property line. That added about 2 weeks on either side, helped a lot. With out that sunset hit our property about 4 weeks year. And sun would go out at maybe 6pm and come back.

But in hind site, I wish we kept it. We didn't know what it would sell for. Nervous about committing to something new before selling.

Maybe you should try Winnisquam. There were some nice properties in that price range and it's not quite as busy as Winni. Personally, Winni is too busy for my liking.
I'm on Waukewan and property goes fast on that lake because very few come available. It's just a crazy time right now.
I bought a new pontoon boat last August so this 4th of July I decided to sell my two Sea Doo jet ski's. I sold them both that weekend for more money than I paid for them.
It seems like anything to do with out door activities and property in the Lakes region is in high demand right now.

Look Before You Leap
 

Caution - Island living is not for everyone as noted in several threads. Do not even consider it unless you have tried it.

We have been on the east side of Bear Island for 53 years, and love it. However, weather is always a big factor to be aware of. This morning we left early for the mainland to get ahead of an oncoming storm. Made it okay, but we decided that it was not a smart move and we should have waited.

As you mentioned, a boat, a slip on the mainland, hauling everything, etc. are important things to consider. Good luck in your search. 🐻

Like they say, the grass is always greener on the other side....

But you may want to kick the can down the road for a while until the impending (in my opinion) bubble bursts. Once it does, you can go bottom feeding for the property of your dreams. History has proven this time and time again. Good luck.

That is an option we have been considering. Back in March we also expected the "bubble to burst" and we knew things were selling down even in MA (COVID hotspot) and up on the lakes. But we didn't realize how much it was gonna hurt not having a place to go to.

We are willing to take a hit on a market dip, assuming it will eventually bounce back. We are also worried prices might get driven up for a while too. Because of so little inventory.

Nothing makes sense these days.

BTW a realtor told me folks are removing their listings due to "COVID" fears because NH is a low COVID infected state.

I sort of thought the same thing that the bubble would burst earlier this year, but we can see how that has turned out! And you're right, nothing makes sense these days. Again, good luck with your endeavors.

We face Southwest and it's kind of the best of all worlds. The season is easily a month longer at either end because of the sun exposure and in the middle of summer you're protected from the hot sun in the west after 4pm. Sunsets are available every day of the year.

We're on the broads. It can make boat docking challenging in a NW wind, but I don't find it impedes swimming (if you're exposed on the broads, you'll likely have a breakwater which can make swimming a little easier).

Of course the NE views are the best, but looking at the Belknap mountains is pretty nice too.

I'm a big fan of the east side of the lake. There is way less human and boat traffic over here. You need to make sure you understand weekend boat patterns as part of the equation. The western shore of the lake is like a 4 lane highway on nice weekend days and the east side has a few choke points too that can get pretty busy.

We find a flat yard between the house and the water to be really nice. You get a much better sense of living on the water from that perspective.

I happen to live on an island and love the lifestyle. You do need a decent sized boat. You do need a mainland dock. There are days when you really can't leave, so you have to plan ahead a little. But, there are way fewer people around and it's very quiet. I can go a week in the shoulder seasons and not interact with another human.

Island house prices are about 1/2 of mainland (and of course the taxes are too). You can find a pretty nice island place for way less than your budget.

It's not as easy as you would think...
 

...When we were finally able to afford a place on the water, we thought it would be an easy purchase. Not so. We looked at about 15 places over the course of more than a year. Some had a nice house, but crappy water quality; Some had great water, but a crappy house; Some never had shade; some never had sun; and so on, and so on. We finally made a list of "must haves": things we would not compromise on; and "nice to haves": things we would compromise on. We finally found a place that checked all the boxes, with the only real compromise being not a great dog yard, (we have two goldens who like to run and wrestle with each other).

The unfortunate part was that the house checked everyone else's boxes too, and after only being for sale for 3 days, it was shaping up to be multiple offers. Fortunately, the realtors handled it responsibly and there was no bidding war and playing one buyer off the other. Everyone had to submit "best and final" at the same time. And this was 8 years ago...

So, I would say determine what you will compromise on; stick to your budget, (don't get emotional with your money); be prepared that you might lose out to someone else; but, take comfort in words of wisdom that someone gave me a long time ago, (that apply to almost any situation in life): "you'll be where you're supposed to be"

Boating?
 

Boating on Winnipesaukee is a lot different than Newfound. If you live on an island, boat commuting is a whole new experience. Many of us have multiple boats. You may be able to telecommute, but quality of internet varies a lot.
Go to VRBO and rent a place for a couipe of weeks. Anywhere, sunset etc irrelevant. Find out what Winnipesaukee is like, then start some sort of search. You may decide another lake is for you. There are island places on Homeaway and VRBO too.

Best of luck in your search. It's disheartening to hear that it might be difficult to find what you're looking for even at the price you're willing to pay.

I do agree that it's perhaps waiting for the market to change—it's only a matter of time as the next half year will see many financial struggles catching up to people.

I wish you the best.

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I know about the internet issues.

Speaking of internet. Does Cellular data get bogged down during peak season on Winni (Verizon)?

I think renting during prime time vs owning for a full season are completely different. I'm sure it would be helpful but it won't expose a lot of it. Like no access in Winter is a big one to us. We would occasionally come up in winter and cross country on NewFound. So that's out.

We don't mind taking a chance on an island but it's hard to judge the value on the islands. We just want to make sure we are paying "market" value. Prices might drop everywhere next year, who knows, can't forecast that (or I should say can forecast when that might happen). Holding on to what we had would have been no different than buying something else.

The very first thing I did at any house we looked at was test the internet speed on both Verizon and ATT since I was a work at home person. Pretty much any place (even islands), has access to at least DSL. I was actually pleasantly surprised that "working from home" was very doable even on 2.5 mbps DSL. I did have 2 levels of backup though. DSL -> ATT mifi -> tethered verizon smart phone. I never missed a day of work in 6 seasons of working from home.

I checked Verizon "Signal Strength" at a few properties but I should have done a real data speed test. But it was not on a weekend with peak usage either and my guess is, it was fine (at that time).

I heard cellular data can get bogged down due to all the users during peak periods.

From one Winni to the other
 

Family been on Winnipesaukee since 1892. I grew up on The Broads from 1950 to about 2000. The family moved to Winnisquam because the atmosphere of the lake and neighborhood was getting worst. Never regret the move, in fact a number of 'old families' have moved to other lakes in the Lakes Region.
I envy those on Newfound Lake. Excellent boat ramp and a friendly atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, Winnisquam is a lot quieter and friendlier than Winnipesaukee. I'm 70 and enjoy waterskiing on this lake because it is a lot calmer, don't have to worry about yahoos cutting me off.

As for the neighborhood, it was basically blue-collar until the mid '90's when taxes skyrocketed and folks decided to sell. Big spenders buy up the properties, tear down beautiful lake cottages and build McMansions. Neighborhoods were known for annual 'block parties' until the NIMBYs call the police. They even call the police if fellow boaters anchor out front to visit! They are so anti-neighborly!

Some food for thoughts if you really want to enjoy Lakes Region.

My understanding is it varies a lot on where you are on the lake. We are looking mostly at Tuftonboro and Moultonboro on Mainland and islands (nothing on the broads).

Newfound lake was great but there wasn't much to go to by boat after 35 years. We thought it would be cool to go to restaurants by boat. But maybe that's a grass is greener thing.

We have considered Winnisquam, Squam, Sunapee as well. The range of islands on Winni was attractive. Some really nice properties for much less money.

But you post is food for thought. And some of what you said is happening on NewFound as well. Just not as fast as on Winni.

Forgot to add, I still boat on Winnipesaukee during the week. I can actually walk to the marina on the WOW trail. Pontoon boats are great on Winnisquam, not so rough even on weekends! Best of both worlds!

Borrowed a neighbors pontoon a few times, not sure on size maybe 21ft. They are ok, if you want to putt putt around. But when you want to really get somewhere they typically have no windshield and you get wind blown. Also awkward to cover. I think Winnipesaukee needs a "Deep V" of around 23ft or more. Realtor took us out on a 25ft Cobalt R5 to see island property. Really nice boat. Went through the broads like silk, but it was a pretty calm day (during the week) but there was still a 1ft chop on the way out and 1-2ft on the way back. That would not have been fun on a Pontoon or on a full inboard ski boat like we had. We had a Deep V 18ft I/O before the inboard ski.

You've driven the wrong 'toons.

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I think the OP is just being honest. Not to offend, but if given the choice between a pontoon/tritoon boat or an equivalent length deep V boat in 2 foot type seas and/or windy conditions as described, the choice, for me anyway, would be pretty easy.

The R5 looks to be about $100k+. For that money, a 24-26' tritoon with 350+ horsepower would take on anything Winni would put up. Hell, my 20' tritoon with 150 goes wherever, whenever.

Just pointing out they're no longer "putt putt" machines.

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At Least Two Reasons...
 

1) COVID-19, and
2) New York City emptying out...! :eek:

I'd suggest investing with brokerage-house Edward Jones, and come back in Winter, 2021.

I always saw 'toons as mini vans on the lake ;)

Ok, now let's get back on topic.

This internet thing is probably going to be a show stopper for the island place we had our eye on. I don't mind using cellular for back up (Verizon), but not as my primary means of doing work all day. What are folks thoughts on that.

@broadhoppers post did strike a nerve. I was out on Winni touring an island property 2 days before the 4th in the middle of the week. I felt like I was in the Caribbean (25ft Cobalt R5 helped). I don't judge the lakes on prime weekends. It can get a bit crazy on NewFound too. In fact, I miss some of it during the week or after labour day. If you have a nice property, just stay on it ;) But maybe if you have to "commute" through it, it can be a problem.

I would avoid properties with popular sandbars at your door step though.

Whether or not I would rely on a wireless service for working remotely would depend directly on how I would use it. I can use my AT&T hotspot for email, basic websurfing, paying bills, etc. but it's imperfect when using it for Zoom/Meet, streaming video, etc. especially during peak times. I wouldn't expect Verizon to be any different, especially given the reports the last couple years of Verizon hiccups.

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Verizon...
 

Recommendations from this site sent me to Verizon. After four years of perfect experiences, reception at the lake fell off. A factory store sold me a matching pair of "modems", which were arguably better.

Two months later, when I'm in Florida, reception slowed to a stop! :mad:
Florida factory store advises, "Oh yeah, nobody there has reception". >>SHRUG<< :eek2:

So I get AT&T--OK in Florida, almost OK in Wolfeboro. (But half the monthly price of Verizon).

Verizon keeps sending bills, and charges $7.50 to speak (one time) to a living Verizon person. So I pay it, and learn my Verizon billing has gone to a collection agency. :eek:

I've since written a letter to Verizon headquarters and haven't heard anything back. :fire:

Newfound Lake Blues
 

I spent time each summer on an Island at Winnipesaukee and I loved it. No noise no cars relaxing it was great. Here is what I learned.
You need to haul EVERYTHING by boat to Island home( IH). You must have a slip on the mainland. You are limited to use from Ice in to Ice out. Water from the lake, septic issues, power availability, heat source just a few of things come to mind that are a little different from main land living. We had SW exposure and it was great. I would say if you have the time, rent a place near where you would like to be for a month both mainland and island. Then make your final plan. Good luck!! I wish I had your problem!!!:)

I agree... patience is a virtue. Once the free money stops flowing... and it will, things will get pretty depressed. My wife and I have been looking for a fishing boat and are amazed so few are available. It seems this has been an outstanding year for boat sales, even used boats are selling close to the price of new. Then again it's understandable, few were working and the government was rewarding everyone to stay home. The free money kept us from the depression that was inevitable, but I don't believe that little boy can hold his finger in the dike forever...

Interesting about cellular service...Here on Welch my AT&T cellular is great! Last night I did a speed test and I get 139 Mbps download and 14 Mbps upload. That seems to hold pretty constant and I don't ever see any throttling back by AT&T. This is great speed compared to my DSL speed of 7 Mbps, which is the fastest landline I can get on the island.

Dan

Winni house
 

sent you a PM

Dan, I've mentioned a lot about deprioritization and plan levels. My guess is that that's what we're talking about when we discuss congestion. Also, I'm at the outer range of service, so it's not the strength I get in "full bar" areas. In those, it's very fast service.

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I have a Formula on 'pesaukee. There is nothing like it anywhere! I'd give it a test drive. Expensive but worth it. The 260 SS or BR is perfect, even on rough days!

'Toons are popular on 'squam. I have a 20' Bennie with 150. Great for watersking but hardly a wake boat. At my age I like put puttering around a calm lake. The kids, grandkids love the sandbar scene. Nice on a 'toon. If I have a need for speed the missle is a must have on 'squam!

As SNoel says sell high and buy low! I know a property sold for 300K in 1998, sold for 1.3 mill in 2006, auctioned off in 2009 for 700K, listed but not sold in 2018 for 2.3 mill. Market is a yo yo!

I might have found an option for Internet.

It’s called a MoFi.

It’s basically a device you add to your Cellular plan like an iPad.

It has huge Antennas so it can pull in weak signals.

It has Ethernet ports and WiFi like a typical router.

So this doesn’t tie up your phone. Always on.
Can connect things like a Nest Camera, ThermoStat, Smoke Alarms.

You can get them for Verizon, AT&T etc. around $250.

This could be cheaper than FairPoint and better speeds. Depends on your existing plan. Like adding my Apple LTE Watch was free for my plan.

You also have to be careful what Cellular plan your on. Some will throttle during busy hours. Some will throttle Video streaming. I think almost all unlimited plans are now throttled. But if they do offer unlimited and unthrottled, it’s expensive. But that might be more than you need.

Also need to be careful with speed tests. Because they might kick in throttling after a certain amount of data is moved.

Googling MoFi, it’s popular for RV’s.

Curious if anyone is using it. Seems almost to good to be true.

I forgot to add this yesterday—it's closer than I thought: https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/14/sp...is-summer/amp/

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I thought about that. I wonder if it will have the same latency issues as Satellite. They are lower orbit but I don't know if that's enough.

So I read through this thread and there is a lot of good information here. I wouldn't settle on a property, until I was sure it was what I wanted. Right now people can claim that inventory is low... they always do to try and drive prices higher.

So many people feel uncertain about the future, that they are impulsively buying .... Once we get to the post Covid-19 future, I believe two things are going to happen:
1. More places are going to be available to buy
2. More places are going to start going through foreclosure because people over-extended themselves.

My advice to anyone looking to invest in waterfront property in the lakes region is this.... Make a list of everything your are looking for.... then work to cut that list in half by removing anything that your realize is not practical to expect every property to have...... then cut the list in half again, by striking everything you feel will drive the price of a property out of your range.... What you should end up with is a pretty reasonable set of requirements.

Then look at that list, and decide which items you are willing to invest in over time... i.e home improvements.... and which items need to be their to begin with.... i.e. a good dock for a island home....

In the price range from the O.P. Three should be no problem finding real estate even on the mainland for between 1 to 1.5 million.... But the OP is write you can't expect to have your cake and eat it to.... figure out what is really important....

Interesting thread. I have owned 3 different lake homes over the years with latest being my favorite. Over time I learned what factors were most important to me. My priorities were water quality and depth, western exposure, lower taxes, avoid crazy busy areas, A house that has a rustic cabin feel... What do others value?

I like the repeated culling of the list, and I agree that each of us has certain things that they should not compromise on. But I advocate for less patience. Think of the number of summers you have left, then decide what percent of those you're willing to compromise to find the "perfect" spot...