Meredith Neck-Proposed development...
 

At the end of Meredith Neck Rd., where it becomes Cattle Landing Rd., there is a small private rd. that is relatively unknown called Cushing Rd. It enters a 55 acre parcel of undeveloped land that goes the length of Happy Homes Rd. to the water with a beach and boat house across from Stonedam Island. It is for sale. Rumors have been for up to 17 home sites there. This is a game changer for that entire area including the water between Sally's Gut and the south end of Stonedam.

Imagine the number of moorings, boat slips that will be necessary to accommodate the residents. How about the increase in traffic into town?

On Wed., Feb 10th, at 2:00 PM, there will be a public walk through of the property...

http://meredithtownnh.iqm2.com/Citiz...39&Inline=True

And on the 23Th there will be a virtual public hearing on the project. If the construction of 17 homes there is approved, I'm not sure I would want to continue living in that area. Goodbye to the wildlife I've enjoyed for 60 years. They won't want to live there either.

file:///C:/Users/windc/Desktop/Harri...UBDIVISION.pdf

Sorry...Try this
 

Attachment 16740

Not sure attaching this PDF file is working

Opened for me. Opened with Adobe.

Stoneham View Subdivision Plans; 6 pages

Prepared by Bedford Design Consultants, for and land of, Stonebluff Property Holdings, LLC of Center Harbor.

I am not familiar with the area, but the plan doesn't make it look like it is waterfront?

https://www.meredithnh.org/sites/g/f...h_2020-u32.pdf

That is the link to the tax map, pay attention to lot #11 which is the one in question. There is a section of that lot that has 350' of water front. My guess is that the associated lots would share that frontage.

It's a big chunk of property.

If I read that plan correctly it looks like the proposed subdivision is 3 lots of record, two which will split the 350" waterfront area the third to be land locked. It doesn't appear to be a 17 lot subdivision plan.

No funnels?
 

My recollection is that most towns now have zoning to prevent funnel development. They require a minimum frontage per residence, so you can't build 200 condos to share 100 feet of frontage. In many towns, the fees collected from converting current use to some sort of development ("Land Use Change Tax") go to the local Conservation Commission which then buys land or conservation easements to protect wetlands, slopes, wavefront. etc. I don't know how this is handled in Meredith.

Creating funnels...
 

Another one will be coming onto Rt.25 from Pleasant St., Meredith. Currently, during the summer it is so bad they put traffic-control officers there.

I try not to go anywhere further than Lakeshore Deli on a summer weekend. Hannaford's, across the street, can be an unobtainable destination.

Rockledge Cottages was there...
 

This was a property back in the 50's - 70's, that had tiny little rental cottages on it, a big barn and a farm house where the owner's family lived during the summer. The rest of the year they lived in Tenafly, NJ. It has changed hands a few times and proposals of large scale developments have gone nowhere for some reason unknown to me. One owner was Sam Tamposi, developer and Republican Party activist.

It is a beautiful undeveloped piece of nature. The cottages and farm house are gone. The barn has been restored and the old trail from the farm house to the beach is long overgrown and has disappeared.

These were the days when, up the street, The Golden Horseshoe pizza place was at 88 Cattlle Landing Rd before Mr. Chicola closed it and sold it to a Boston Bruins, I believe manager, who had a gorgeous wife who got it in the divorce and then sold it to a retired Life Magazine photographer from NY named Harrold Krieger, married to author Roberta Russell who sold it upon Harrold's death. The gorgeous mansion was demolished and another gorgeous mansion was built in it's place very recently. I don't know the new owners.

The Golden Horseshoe was a favorite walk for the renters from Rockledge.

I suspect the frontage in question is the same parcel with a boathouse on it that you had questions about subdividing in another thread. If this is the case I can lay out the way the current dock rules and Shoreland (RSA 483-B) subdivision frontage requirements affect the build out potential for the frontage. The approved boathouse and associated docking structures provide 3 slips. Under Wetlands docking / slip density rules a property must have 150 feet of shoreline frontage (there is a specific frontage definition in wetlands rules) to qualify for a three slip docking facility. Under the Shoreland Protection Act, RSA 483-B, the minimum shoreland frontage (slightly different definition in law) required per new lot created with frontage is 150 feet. So it's safe to say that if the frontage is subdivided, the boathouse lot must retain at least 150 feet of shoreline frontage as defined in Wetlands rules to retain all of the previously approved structures and the other lot could have at most 200 feet of frontage based on the previous stated total of 350. On 200 feet of shoreline frontage the current Wetlands rules on slip density for residential use will only allow for a dock design that provides for 3 slips. Please note that this is a limit on design and the size of the docking structure that is approvable. If individuals can find a creative way to tie additional watercraft to the structure it is not a wetland permit violation to do so. Wetlands does not regulate moorings. If you want to know what the mooring potential is you will need to contact the Depart of Safety, Marine Patrol or simply review their rules.

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Khristich ..... ice skate learning with young son out on the lake.

disappointment
 

I thought the link was going to be a picture of the gorgeous wife ice skating.

She was a h-h-h-hottie ...... a local Meredith girl ..... plus they had an all-white Siberian Husky with very bright blue eyes, that was very AT HOME out on the snow covered, lake ice.

Happy Homes Rd, Cushing Rd, and Harris Rd are three unpaved roads that are very close to one, another, but do not meet up. If this new development actually gets approved and actually happens then it seems plausible that some of these old, small roads could probably get extended and attached to one another, and create a paved loop road that circles around the end area of Meredith Neck, making a loop road around the neck area, down there ...... down here.

Will make a very nice summer drive on a Harley or even a Triumph with a stop at the Cattle Landing town dock for a quick swim, just to get cooled off ...... a-yuh!

When they realize the dirt road creates dust on those bright shiny hogs, there'll be a push for paving. Maybe a traffic officer at Cattle Landing. The parking there during the summer is getting a bit out-of-control. Although the tickets given are generating revenue dollars for the $ addicted municipal planners.

And that new DPW building can launch snow plows to plow that which currently is not. 53.5 acres of undeveloped land is (soon to be was) home to every animal known in NH including one moose seen last year by one of my workers. Bear, fox, mink, eagles are very common on this land.

Pave Paradise, put up a parking lot!

Well, all the local wild animals have the nearby Camp Monotomy property, a 90-acre forested and fielded land space with something like 2000' Lake Winnipesaukee waterfront and nobody ever ever there. All the wild animals are already very familiar with Camp Menotomy and are by far the primary occupants of this Girl Scouts of America camp property.

Just last week, I was slowly droving down Cattle Landing Rd and followed from a distance of about 100-yards a herd of about 25 deer who were slowly walking down the road in front of the Gypsy Camp construction and watched them head into the woods across from former Gypsy Camp, and up the slope.

So, they were maybe travelling from Camp Menotomy over to the 53.5-acre Harris Rd/Cushing Rd/Happy Homes Rd undeveloped land, there. 25 deer is a lot of deer in one herd, and I counted them carefully as best I could.

Camp Monotomy went from an active camp, where the girls went to live in the wild for a week or two, to a private venue for private parties...weddings, etc.

How long will that last before the current owners want to downsize completely and sell the place for more development on Meredith Neck where the infrastructure can't keep up with the current density? Coming down Pleasant St. to Rt. 25 on a summer weekend is already unpleasant.

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved Paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum
And then charged the people
A dollar and half just to see 'em

Menotomy
 

I seem to recall a thread a few years ago about Camp Menotomy--the land etc, not stories about campers. It seemed then that there were some good reasons the GS Council did not want to sell. They've been closed a long time. I remember dropping anchor in that cove and spending the night when it was still legal to do so.

Sometime, one to two years ago while at a pickleball session in Meredith, I got into a conversation with someone who seemed to be familiar with the Camp Menotomy property.

I was told the Girl Scouts have a 99-year, one dollar/year lease on this property, and it is designed to go through a NH probate court when the lease is up, after the 99-year life of the lease.

So, while the Girl Scouts have use and occupancy, they do not have ownership and may not sell it.

Do they pay any property taxes? I do not know? I mean the Girl Scouts and not the wild animals who are the real occupants ...... ha-ha-ha! .... :D .... For the wild animals ..... it is a very beautiful property ..... especially the large swamp land area that is frequently flooded. For a deer that swampy area must be like a deer heaven, or something, plus it's all posted, no hunting - no trespassing!

Camp Menotomy
 

I am almost an abutter to Menotomy and I got worried when they shut down their normal operations a while back. I spoke to the Director down in MA and my fears were calmed. She told me that the land had been granted to them for "Girl Scouting" and that any other use would result in the property going back to the heirs of the grantor. And they could not sell it... could only go back to their heirs. And as a non-profit, they pay no taxes. The little bit they pay for power, upkeep, and insurance was offset by the rent they get from a few weekend events by individual girl scout troops. She assured me that their is no incentive for them to do anything except keep everything exactly as is until/unless girl scouting has a resurgence and the previous normal operations could be resumed.

Actually, HAS Been Back...
 

Notice Shore Things is back? ;)

With a new name? :look:

Close to one I'd suggested--but better? :coolsm:

I would call that a big plus for this site. Her answers are always well written and supported by facts and applicable regulations.

I have had some dealings with her and found her to be very up front about what is, and is not, permissible.

I hope she continues to weigh in when necessary to keep discussions about waterfront issues on the correct path.

The Town Planners were not very accepting of public comments and were very vague on what the plans are there.

There were over 30 virtual attendees and we sat on the phone for 4 hrs. until this issue was addressed. A move I believe was to weed out those too tired to remain on the phone until 11 pm. It was only 8 pm my time and I was exhausted.

They had my mailing address wrong. I didn't get the "certified notice" of this project and others didn't either. I was told the address was taken directly from tax records...I get my tax bill. I know what my mailing address is. A street # of 2941 is not going to get to me at 3941 in a City like San Francisco. I asked if the notice had been returned as undeliverable...No answer!

We have uncovered previous approved plans for as many as 20+ homes there. Thus changing the nature of the end of Meredith Neck forever. I refer you to Helen Gordon Stags Head Sub-Development, 1980. By using the original 1926 location for Harris Rd., they'll relocate Harris and build several homes all the way to Happy Homes Rd. The current submitted plans only shows three additional homes.

You can find deeds at WWW.nhdeeds.org

As for prior deals made on other land? I would NOT count on the Meredith Planners to honor anything historical when more tax revenue is involved.

........ Camp Monudemy
 

Well ...... gee-whiz ..... maybe the Girl Scouts could tinker with the direction of their dear dear Camp Monotomy just a wee bit by changing the name to Camp Monudemy and running it as a nudist camp for adults. Monudemy's new camp style could continue to fulfill the wishes of the original grant by bonding its campers with their beautiful Monudemy, 90-acres, 2000' wf, Lake Winnipesaukee location. ..... :rolleye2:

You know its been about twenty-two years, since 1999, since Monotomy been a real summer camp with a full eight week Girl Scout camper season?

Ok ..... while a nudist camp can happen in Florida or Cape Cod, it seems very unlikely here on Meredith Neck. But you got to admit ...... that name ..... M-O-N-U-D-E-M-Y ...... is a good name for a nudist camp ....... ha-ha-ha ..... ho-ho-ho ..... argh-argh-argh! ...... :eek:

...................

So, here's an old NY Times article from 2007 that talks about scout camps in NY state which have been preserved as public land.

Open Space: 'Yet Again, Camping's Loss Is Land Preservation's Gain' ...... NY Times ...... June 3,2007 ..... by John Rather

Maybe someone with better 'puter skills than I can make a working link, here?

This article takes a brief look at Girl Scout and Boy Scout camps unable to continue as a camp which become public land preservation property.

Public Comments
 

Agree on the aversion to public comments. Some of planning board members and the Selectman present were quite unprofessional, rude and one had to apologize for losing his temper! I hope the meeting on 3/23/2021 is managed more professionally.

This call is something else. I finally got booted off the MediaTraq Webcast which looks/connects like AOL in the 90's.

Can anyone provide an update on how this ended?

Hasn't ended yet...Whew!!!!!!!

Was the end result approval for the 3 lots (2 lakefront and 1 non lakefront with 20 acres) based on contingencies? The major one being no future sub division on the 20 acre lot?

Yes...And no sub-divisions on any lot. That was a neighborhood win...However, what has been acres of forest view outside my living room window for over 61 years, will now become the wall of some mega-mansion 20' away. A game-changer I'm not sure I can live with.

I know your house. I've walked by it hundreds of times over the past 40+ years and through the woods onto happy home. In recent years its been a perfect spot for the mutt to get a drink of water down by the boathouse. I feel your pain, but hope your able to live with it. Sure is nice lot in a beautiful cove. I thought if the development went through those houses would wind up right across from your driveway looking down on the lakefront houses. That is a decent win.

Anyways, Good work on the call, you were by far the most coherent of the crew.

Where do you live in the city?

Thank you...

Noe Valley in San Francisco.

Although still fantastic, the Lake is not what it used to be...Guess nothing is.

Thanks again.

Temporary win, you can bet a lot that size will be subdivided in the future. What is said now means nothing once a few years goes by and the board is full of new people and new ideas.

..... a double up the middle for the Meredith select board
 

So, going with three large lots, two-waterfront and one not waterfront, on the 53.5-acre forest area as opposed to 17-homes on the 53.5-acres probably means the small roads of Cushing Rd and Harris Rd will not get extended and attached and a loop road will NOT be happening.

So, that's an excellent "not-happening" for the Meredith Neck, Cattle Landing residents because having a loop would definitely mean a big increase in local traffic with non-resident tourists just out for a scenic drive.

It also means the "old New Hampshire" s-curve in the road, at the location where Meredith Neck Rd becomes Cattle Landing Rd will not get a major re-design, and it will remain unchanged. I would definitely be missing that old s-curve dipsy-doo if it got changed to improve the traffic flow, there. If you ever drive down there, then you know about this spot where the state road and the town road have a very funky, come together.

All things considered these are some good results and the Meredith select board did their home work, very good, with this reduced, low impact, development decision.

And hey ..... maybe I get a job with these new mega-million homes ........ doing the snow with my snowblower ...... with "meticulous attention" to snow removal and not damaging their very well kept green grass lawn. ..... :laugh:

Does the non lakeshore lot have deeded right of way to the lake?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Not by deed. But if a friend or relative owns the non-water rights lot, they just get permission from the friend or relative in the one that does.

A deeded right of way would add thousands to its value


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

In any event, it should substantially boost the value of your property!

..... here to stay .... the dipsy-doo!
 

For some unknown reason it looks like the NH Dept Transportation has recently installed a small sign, about 12"x 18", atop a 6' high sign post that says something like "State owned road stops here" at the spot where Meredith Neck (state)Rd stops, and Cattle Landing (town)Rd begins, there, with the dipsy-doo!

There's never been a sign like that, there, before in the past.

So, I wonder if the possibility of redoing the s-curve dipsy-doo to improve traffic flow had a 17-home development actually happened has anything to do with this new state sign?

Like hey, is not our fault about you losing the dipsy-doo ...... the dipsy-doo belongs to the town ..... not us ..... and we too love this dipsy-doo .... or something!

Supposedly, the Meredith Neck Rd was built in the 1880's so state politicians have a faster ride out to that Bear Island hotel, go there for strong liquor and fancy woman, via Cattle Landing wharf ..... arrrooooooo!!

And just think the cost to the tax payers for that sign that is of course useless and states the obvious.

At least 3 over paid union workers to make the sign. One to do the work, one to supervise the one doing the work and then a supervisor to the supervisor.

I'm sure all the materials used to construct the sign were bought at premium price.

A 3 month, multi agency study had to be conducted to determine the best location of the sign where it would be aesthetically pleasing and no animals would ever be harmed by it's placement.

2 months were spent in focus groups to determine the exact wording was gender neutral, not racist, offensive or difficult to understand by non English speaking "guests". It's shocking that the sign was actually printed out in just one language instead of 30.

Now to the installation which required at least 2 state DPW trucks, 2 police cruisers, 2 flaggers, 1 supervisor, 1 assistant to the supervisor, 1 safety and compliance inspector, and 3 guys to pound in a post and put in two bolts. A survey crew was then called out to ensure that the placement met ample visual distance from 100 feet away because this is critical information for all passers by for sure.

All in all that sign probably cost everyone 150K all so you can know the state road ends here.

Congratulations!

Are you sure you didnt leave anyone out Archie

I'm sure I did and for those hard working individual(s) who were not mentioned we all applaud and recognize your tireless efforts and dedication for a job well done.

Truth though. Unfortunately.

Yes!
 

I usually take Max's stuff at arm's length- but this one seems to be one of h/h best!
Truly made me laugh!!!

Left out???- Meathead protesting! :laugh:

The staff report ignores a statement during the public hearing that all 4 lots will access Happy Homes road.
Also, statement that extension of HH Rd will become a class V road, and be maintained by the Town, without first getting Town approval for a new town road is illegal as hell.

There's one sentence on the second page under Access/Roads heading which says:

"Mike Faller (public works director) has requested the balance of Happy Homes Road connecting to Harris Road be flagged."

It has me scratching my head? Does this mean he wants it to have a display of American Flags? ... :patriot:

By extending Happy Homes Rd and connecting it with Harris Rd, a driving loop route around the end of Meredith Neck would be created so this is a key, big, little road item in this sentence, which is unclear what it means by "flagged"? Having a loop route here will increase the local traffic with added sight-seers who are just out for a good drive down along the waterfront.

Do a google search for Harris Rd, Happy Homes Rd, Meredith NH 03253 to see it on google maps/earth.

Is maybe a possibility the town will complete the loop with dirt road extensions added to both Harris Rd and Happy Homes Rd and then install a steel road gate to keep it from become a through loop?

Update
 

This 3-lot subdivision of 53 acres was approved by the PB with the provisions of only two waterfront lots and one back lot, no further subdivision from there, and no surrender of the Town's right to a Happy Homes to Harris Shore connection. Seemed like quite a coup for the town and neighborhood, but one neighbor kept fighting against it, with the support of some other (uninformed?, unintelligent?, greedy?) neighbors. While the other neighbors just wanted to see it left undeveloped and remain their personal tax-free 53-acre backyard (which just ain't gonna happen on a property like this), the one neighbor was rumored to want some of the land gifted to him in exchange for ending the harrassment. His alledged development plans for that land sound like they would surely be much much worse for those other neighbors than the 3-lot subdivision. But the developer finally just threw in his towel. Who needs this aggravation over a 3-lot subdivision? And the value of the property, WHICH IS RIPE FOR A MANY-LOT SUBDIVISION, has probably tripled since he bought it. So low and behold, he is selling the property to a reportedly "major" developer and it will be very ironic if that developer ends up putting a 20-lot subdivion in, as is probably very approvable there.

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved Paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum
And then charged the people
A dollar and half just to see 'em

Clearing the land..
 

Drove by that property in the boat yesterday after passing through Sally's Gut and they are starting to clear some of the land near the water next to the existing boathouse.

Let me clear this up...

The land that is being developed is not the subject property. That is a property, next to it, once owned by the Reed family on Happy Homes Rd.

The subject property has been sold to one couple who plans on building one home and not subdividing the property. IT HAS NOT BEEN SOLD TO A DEVELOPER!!!

The new owners...John and Michelle, are from South Carolina and originally from Canada. They are currently having an architect design their ONE HOUSE near the water. Because of the cost of materials, they don't plan on building soon.

And...
 

The new owners...John and Michelle, are letting a young couple live in the existing guest house, near the remodeled barn, in exchange for some work on the house.

I know all the parties actively involved in this issue. May I suggest we give these new neighbors a warm welcome, as I have already done in person. Stop unsubstantiated rumors.

I would be very surprised if material prices drop from here.
We have a cost increase coming from the suppliers that should take effect in early September.

And with the lengthened lead times, it is a real effort to get what the customers would like.

It’s awful. It takes me twice the amount of time to get back home to the Weirs from church in Meredith on Sundays.

And now they are building 77 townhomes off route 3 just up the road from us?

The roads here aren’t made for this.

New townhomes on route 3?

Is that a proposal of an existing association or a new association?

The June 22 2021, Laconia Daily Sun has a report on a 70-unit townhouse community titled "Work begins at the 'Brook Hill' site". It says it is located between Meredith and Weirs Beach and that "All Roads Lead To Brook Hill!"

Not sure if this is what is actually being discussed here but it maybe could be? ....... www.brookhillatmeredith.com ...... yup, this must be it? ...... is just south and across Route 3 from that 200-year old farm house/bakery at www.picnicrockfarms.com

Interesting.

That's across from the big field that had a golf-driving range on it when I was young...It was called..."My Brother's Place".

My neighbor is on the Conservation Committee that provided the review of the development and it's environmental impact. He says he's batting 1,000 with the Zoning Board...A perfect record of them ignoring everything he's presented to them for many years.

I suggested a $9.95 rubber stamp you can buy on-line that says "APPROVED" and just forego the extra theater and drama...Ever attend a planning board or zoning board meeting?

Grantings and deed restrictions
 

Restrictions and grants are all 'hogwash' in NH. I remember Cotton Hill Rd in Gilford. The original horse farm at the top has a deed restriction to sub-developing the land but was broken in court. Camp Samoset property was restricted to the 'recreation for Jewish boys' but that also was nulled in court.

I'm sure anyone can find a lot of grants and restrictions nulled. One way of preventing this is to deed the land over to a conservation trust such as LRCT or Belknap Conservatory. But I do expect some brainstorming developer/lawyer with deep pockets to find a way to billions!

My family farm was set up as a trust to Belknap Conservatory. You should have listened to some of the threats from developers on the phone!

The movie 'Yellowstone' is a bit farfetched but can be today's reality!

47 Happy Homes Rd./Cushing Rd., Meredith Neck...

Mark murphy, Stone Bluff Properties, bought the 53.5 acres in 2020 for $2,350,000 (Oct., 2020) and sold it to John and Michelle nine months later (July 2021) for $3,900,000...

His "aggravation" for nine months netted him $1,550,000...He did no physical work to the property.

.....oopsie .....that 200-year old farm house is actually a 250-year old, year-1769 historic farm house, and Meredith's second oldest historic structure!

So, residents from the nearby www.brookhillatmeredith.com will be able to take a short walk from their new home down their hill to that historic Picnic Rocks farmhouse/bakery for a good morning cup-o-coffee and freshly baked homemade goodies from their neighborhood store across historic olde Route 3, the Daniel Webster Hgwy, at the Picnic Rocks bakery, right there!

So, how good is that! ..... :D ..... without a doubt, Picnic Rocks will appreciate all this new found, walk-in business that has recently moved into their neighborhood and built/bought/sold 70 new two bedroom & bonus rooms ..... homes ..... that's a lot of potential fresh donuts and coffee customers .... new folks with some big money originally from somewhere else.

I don't know that it is really all big money moving to the area.
I think what is happening is they are in the process of selling homes elsewhere and relocating to our area and even further north of us.
They are building new because of the lack of supply, so spring time is a huge surge as compared to what I was used to with this additional demand.

I think it was always going to happen, but at a much slower pace. COVID meant that many could not ''vacation'' outside of New England, and I think that may have heightened the response. The first spring of COVID was a surge in demand that shocked me. I think it shocked almost everyone. But I think it may have placed the three northern New England states firmly in the mind of those transitioning to retirement... more quickly than normally would have.

Summer seems to ''idle'' a bit, basically due to weather and vacationers being here. But the industry keeps steady locally with all the island homes that need to get things done within a restricted time period.

But autumn will most likely be ''mainland'' DIYers that put off projects during the spring and wet summer. I fall into that category.

So I don't think we should be surprised to see some rather heavy build out anywhere close to either of the two bigger lakes. Whether they are higher priced private homes, or associations that may be able to share some costs and add some features.