Something for the MP to do
 

http://operationdrywater.org/


Operation Dry Water is a coordinated, national weekend of Boating Under the Influence (BUI) detection and enforcement aimed at reducing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities and fostering a stronger and more visible deterrent to alcohol use on the water.

Coordinated by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators - working with the states, the U.S. Coast Guard and other partner agencies - Operation Dry Water will directly address the National Recreational Boating Safety Strategic Plan Strategy 6.2, …increase the number of BUI checkpoints to collect and report BUI and safety compliance data in the Performance Report Part II AND Strategy 6.6 Challenge law enforcement officials to test more operators for alcohol/drug use in accident investigations.

Curbing the number of alcohol-related accidents and fatalities is a key to achieving safer and more enjoyable recreational boating. In 2007, Coast Guard statistics indicate that 21% of all boating fatalities were a result of alcohol use. This continues an upward trend in the percentage of fatalities where alcohol was the primary cause of the accident.

The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators is a national nonprofit organization that works to develop public policy for recreational boating safety. NASBLA represents the recreational boating authorities of all 50 states and the U.S. territories.

Great idea!
 

Thanks VtSteve. DUI is a huge problem on Lake Winnipesaukee.

An interesting story. I know there's been an increased call for enforcement of exiting laws, by myself as well. But at no time did any of us think this meant harassment, which is now occurring frequently. I wonder what that MPO would have been told if the boaters he was harassing were not police? Brings back the bad old days a bit.

One thing people have to remember.

1) Law enforcement officers everywhere are not automatically heroes. A select few earn that right by heroic duties, not by being hired and doing the wrong thing.

Interestingly enough, over here the state and local police on the lake are far more seasoned, more professional, and far more worthy than quite a few of the Coast Guard I've seen. I think too many people are entering service and getting caught up in the HSA thing. When it gets out of control, they need to be brought back to reality, or just let go.

The results of the past several years on lakes around the country point to a lack of focus on the real issues and problems. Too many drunk boaters, too many idiots endangering people in the water. To that end those that harass set back law enforcement many years. People that get stopped for routine checks by officers that are polite and courteous are far more likely to help out, and have a favorable opinion. You get some jackarse like a couple of the above that are out to feel big and harass people, and it all goes down the tube.

Since they were police, the head honcho back at base should have told them to kick the crap out of the MP and wise him up. OK, just kidding :emb: I know he's a real hero and just doing his job.

....................
 

I've found over the years in general the more senior year round mpo's are fine. However the temp seasonal etc mpo's tend to have let's use the word issues. After there training, including boat training manuvers in Glendale I believe there judgements are not refined and lead to again issues with mp and boaters. I have been blue lighted in past years myself, one time I was approached at our camp dock by two mpo in one of the regular patrol boats. I just came back from a pwc ride and was off the machine and anchored when they came over wanting my reg etc. Driving was the senior officer and the one was a newbie doing all the talking and wanted me to get on the pwc and come out to them. Ya right! I said you came to the dock. So they did and then hit my pwc floating on the anchor. The newbie one wrote me a ticket for the 150 rule. The senior one just stood back and watched. I took there name, number, bow numbers and captains name. I asked where did they see me violate this from as I never saw them. It was over 800' away in glendale area from a parralel view. GOOD EYES! Anyway long story short and off the path, I filed a complaint with them. Took the newbie/mpo in official capacity to court and won.

Other than that I have had good results with MP as long as I interact with the full time personel. It's the weekend warriors with no concerns or the (me it's all me) attitude that wind me up. Oh, and as for the mass_____s lay off. I have found just as many issues with the locals as people from surrounding states.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...977/-1/CITIZEN

It was pretty interesting if you can get around the true nature of the purpose, which is to obtain future grants and funding. I had read that part of the article, but it hadn't fully sunk in until just now.

You know, you brought up an interesting point that I had not thought of. With the recent stories of MP forcing boats into a 150' violation, I wonder if our crying out for increased enforcement of existing laws has led them to do this?
We asked for it, we got it?

There is no need for dirty tricks.

The MP's can write as many 150' violations and BUI as they want every Saturday and Sunday (if the sun ever comes out)

For 150' violations pick any narrow spot on the lake. In many of these spots, I'll line up to the far right, so will the on-coming traffic and then someone will always try to pass or squeeze through causing lots of confusion and swearing.

For BUI, just sit by any sandbar around dusk on Saturday or a little earlier on Sunday. The drunks are pretty easy to spot. Look for people who suddenly forgot how to drive their boats.

They are certainly forcing other boaters to get to headway speed much more often that I have seen in the past. I do not know if they are writing tickets or just giving verbal warnings. I saw this three times last week close to the islands around and south of Bear Island.

When they are doing this, they are moving slow in the water, then as you get close to them, with then on your forward/starboard side, they pick up speed and hold course forcing you to turn or to get down to headway speed. They are, in these circumstances, the stand-on vessel so they are "clean" in the conflict they are causing. It is just that they seem to be more aggressive in forcing you to make a decision this year than they have been in the past.

If they are writing tickets, that is not the ideal situation. However, if they are giving verbal warnings and some meaningful instruction about stand on vessel and the 150' rule, I see that as educational and, as such, a reasonable approach. I have not seen them doing this when I have been the stand-on vessel. This would be worse in my opinion, but no matter how anyone creats a 150' conflict, both boats have to get to headway speed.

Sometimes you have to be careful about what you are asking for and this could be the case regarding the 150' rule. I for one favor enforcement of the 150' rule.

R2B

I have to disagree. Stand-on vessels are supposed to maintain course and speed, if safe to do so. If they are accelerating, they are breaking the law and are not at all "clean". I plan to have a video camera along with me this Summer in case I get hassled by an MP using this rude and unsafe behavior.

DaveR,

You are correct about maintaining course and speed, so they are not completely "clean". However, they are well away from a conflict when they start accelerating. My guess is if they have a camera, they are turning it on after they get up to speed.

If they are hanging paper, they are wrong. If they are educational in their intensions, I think there is more good here than bad.

Brnging your video is a reasonable idea.

Enjoy the good weather when it gets here.

R2B

Another thing to keep in mind is that beginning this year a violation of the 150' rule, headway/no wake speed, to name just a couple, anywhere in the state also brings another little gift. If you are cited and convicted it goes on your driving record. A little gift from the new law that must not be mentioned!

Looks like a Chess Game doesn't it? I guess you Have to play it that way............:(

So why do we HAVE to play a Chess Game every time we go boating? Maybe some people don't care for Chess.? Just wondering.

This is a disturbing post! It would be completely dangerous and insensible to carry a taser on the water! And as another poster stated, the ENTIRE agency is armed this year. They are no different from any other law enforcement agency, and I think it's great that they are finally armed. And no, if you see a Marine Patrol Officer with a firearm, which you will, there is no need to "report it." They have qualified with the weapon, thus earning the right to carry it.

MPs are armed this year?
 

This just isn't right.

For half a century, the Winnipesaukee MPs have not been armed.

It's either:

1) justified due to some boating-public demographic we haven't heard about, or

2) it's some kind of embellishment to draw seasonal help—who can then seek LEO employment elsewhere off-season.

(A poor way, IMHO, to spend "OPM"—Other People's Money)

My several "meetups" with NHMPs have been mostly cordial—and I had one "meetup" with one NHMP officer that lasted 1½ hours! I was eventually cited, but then "uncited" after mail was exchanged with Director Barrett showing that I was correct.

Just don't be the only boat in view on the lake! :eek:

It is? :confused: How can a NHMP officer determine that?

Late last season, I watched a 30-foot boat do a half-dozen large "figure-eights" at top speed. Was it BUI or a chance to run out last year's gasoline?

Wouldn't it then make sense to crowd that boat into a 150-foot violation?

I agree with jrc, but in order to entrap a problem boater—one who could have been "called-in"—that offender may need to be crowded by the MP to allow "a legitimate stop".

BTW 1: Just an MP's presence in a narrow spot will reduce 150-foot violations by those knowledgeable in this lake's rules. :cool:

BTW 2: Am I seeing the same handful of boaters doing the complaining?

I don't remember anyone asking to be harassed for being a responsible boater. I don't recall anyone calling out for the MP to use dirty tactics. Assuming the acts reported here are intentional and real, I'd think somebody would be pretty embarrassed to call them the MP. I'd also like to think there's only one or two in the MP that feel the urge to do these things.

As others have stated, there are plenty of boneheads out on the water at any given point to target, no need to make it happen. These types of incidents have a way of turning public opinion against you, which is not a good thing. The more responsible boaters there are on the lake willing to assist the MP, and discuss problems with them, the better the MP will be for it. If these types of actions are real, then the lake and it's inhabitants have another job to do.

Again, if this is just a couple or a few, continued reports of this behavior will raise a red flag to those in charge. I don't believe for a minute they'd appreciate the actions.

We shall agree to disagree
 

I hear you, but laws and rules don't "do" anything, they are just words, so they don't protect anyone or anything. They are simply the means by which enforcement can react and hold us accountable after the fact. There's nothing pro-active there. To "protect" is a verb, an action that words cannot do. The marine patrol will not be standing on my boat or patrolling alongside "protecting" me from harm by others. How could they? They can only react after witnessing wrongdoing, or after an accident, complaint, or report. Just my $.02. Prevention and protection are two very different words - and you know how the courts are about nitpicking vocabulary.

My experience
 

I just had to re-post this story I posted back on May 26th in another thread. I wanted to add this to this thread to compound what I see as a very dangerous trend by SOME Marine Patrol Officer's. This thread prompted me to write an email to the Marine Patrol highlighting my story or stories and including a link to this thread. My request was that the Marine Patrol Officer in Charge discuss courteous boating practices with the officers. I also alluded to the fact that the credibility and overall image of the Officers is negatively impacted by this behavior. FYI it has happened a couple of more times since I wrote this, leading me to speculate that this has practically become standard procedure. I pray that I am wrong.:rolleye1:

Here is my story:
Twice..... TWICE this past weekend I saw Marine Patrol engaging in what I consider rude, inconsiderate boating practices. Once in the Barbers Pole area and the other time in the 6 pack/mini-graveyard off of Long Island.

Both times the officers, (different boat and officer each time) were cruising at no wake speed RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CHANNEL. Making it impossible for anyone to pass above headway speed. Now I am all for relaxing and taking it slow but this is downright rude boating. It borders on entrapment IMHO. As if they were daring boaters to pass them. Both times I offered the obligatory shrug of the shoulders and shake of the head. Seriously though consideration goes a long way in both directions. I would never ever ever take up the middle of the channel at no wake speed and I can only imagine Marine Patrol would probably pull someone over for pulling a stunt like that. Not that they would have grounds to but they'd probably give someone a stern lecture for it.

now I get it
 

This same thing happened to me, in the area just described nearby Long Island. I came up behind an MP boat that was idling through that section and passed him. I believe I was more than 150' away as he was exiting the channel. He wrote me up for a fine. I didn't think too much of it and figured I should have waited a bit longer to pass him. Only now, after reading several of these posts, do I realize I was set up.

Back to the opening post, I do believe the Marine Patrol makes it a lot LESS fun to boat on Winni because of their overzealousness. I also feel that when there are young kids in the boat and they see their parents and other adults cringe and get defensive whenever they see an MP vessel, it sends the wrong message to the kids about law enforcement officers. I believe that kids should be brought up respecting LEOs and expecting them to be courteous and helpful, even if they are correcting unlawful behavior. How many boating families on the Lake feel threatened by the MPs and pass that on to the kids? I look back and realize we did, and I wish I hadn't.

Does the Marine Patrol even care that they are seen in a negative light by far too many reasonable boaters?

Peter

An therein lies the problem Peter. You did in fact break the law and you have admitted that. However, the fact that Marine Patrol sits in that area or "idl(es) through that section..." is where the real problem lies. This is what really pisses me off. You'd think that there are enough idiots out there breaking the law without Marine Patrol provoking a potential violation. If I had the badge I'd make it a point to motor through that area in a reasonable manner so that I wouldn't even have a chance to provoke a violation. That's just me, that's the way I, as a civilian, do my boating. I make sure to keep way to the right and anticipate a course that can provide others around me ample space to pass legally. Am I asking too much of my marine patrol?

FYI,

I received a response from Marine Patrol to my email. It wasn't what I had hoped but she did say she had "...addressed (my) concern with various officers who patrol on Lake Winnipesaukee." One can only hope so.

Actually he DIDN'T admit breaking the law. He said he thought he was more then 150 feet away.

I was similarly stopped for a 150 foot violation. I am a pilot and many runways are 150 feet wide. I KNOW what 150 feet looks like. The MP was wrong. I believe there is at least one MP who is over zealous in trying to bag people.

Does anyone think there might be some AGE descrimination going on here. When I was younger.. over 40 years ago.. (I'm 67) I just KNEW that the Cops were after me because I was young.

Today..I have no reason to disbelieve that theory because lately, ...last 40 years or so, I have not been hassled on the road...or in the boat. I have gray hair and wear my ball cap on straight. Just wondering.

I recall reading on this forum either last summer or the summer prior that a forum member was stopped by the Marine Patrol for violating the Safe Passage rule and was informed by the MPO that 150 FEET was the length of THREE FOOTBALL FIELDS! :emb:

Touchdown passes are much easier on those 50 foot football fields you know. :)

Not sure if anyone was at the sand bar outside Small's Cove this saturday, but a marine patrol officer came driving in going to boats handing out flyers regarding the no rafting rule and keeping 150' from shore. He didn't stop at my boat, I was on the outside near the no wake buoy if you are familiar with the area. I noticed him go to a boat that wasn't to far from me and explained to them that they were too close to shore. The only problem was that the other boater and a few others he spoke to were at least 100' from the 150' buoy's. I don't understand why they were told they were too close. You'd think it would be as simple as not being within the bouy and the shore. Not according to this MPO. There was plenty of space between boats. No violations of the 25' rule. just another reason to bother people and confuse boaters who don't know the rules. it wasn't loud or rowdy or extremely busy like some days out there. Just seems like they are looking to make their presence known and bother people trying to enjoy one of the very few nice days of the year.

I don't believe on the water it is age discrimanation. I do believe that many more stops are made for watercrafts then boats. I also think some officers also have a problem with boats that look fast.

When I got a ticket for boat type it said sped boat. No that is not a typing error that is what it said on the ticket. My boat is a Baja and clearly advertised in big letters all over the boat.

It is 365 hp not nearly as close to a speed boat as what he had with 2 300 hp outboards on the back.

Discrimination
 

I agree. I have a Formula with about 300 HP. I seems that MPO's always pick on me whenever I am in a no rafting zone. I will be the first one there. Well away from other boats and fully aware of the rules. Yet they will ask me to pack up my 4 grandkids, 3 daughters and move. Or I will get ticket.

That is why you don't see too many performance boats in the no rafting area. Most performance boaters have the same story to tell.

Originally posted by Broadhopper
Assuming that you are not violating any rules, I wonder if keeping a copy of the rafting rules on board and the next time an MPO does that politely pull them out, present them and tell the MPO you are confused, ask him/her to point out which regulation on rafting you are violating so you'll be sure not to do it again. I'd love to hear their response!

I always keep a wary eye for the MP... and so far ..I have only been approached once (in 12 years) ..at the Wolfeboro Town dock about my through hull exhaust. The MP just wondered if I had mufflers. I told him......"As far as I knew, I had no mufflers". I asked him to come aboard and have a look. He declined. There was no further conversation other than .."Have a nice day".

I have a Donzi Classic. :coolsm:

Give the MP 1/2 point for an action today. After days of rain, the sun came out and so did they boats. Lots of them! The MP came by, doing their standard "leader of the parade" act, forcing everyone to go slow by moving at headway speed in the middle of the narrows. All of a sudden, the skies opened up and it started pouring. The MP boat moved off to the side of the narrows (where they should have been anyway at headway speed) and let everyone zoom home. So many boats were in the MP parade that it was a mad-magazine scene for a while. Free entertainment! :rolleye2:

my two cents
 

I think the mp in general do a good job. Better with than with out.

"Better with than with out." seems to be setting the bar pretty low. Why can't we expect more from this public organization? Lowering our expectations for public service is not an acceptable option, IMO.

I don't seem to hear these criticisms of the state or local police. Sure, every organization has issues and problems, but from what I read from this forum, the Marine Patrol is in a class by itself in terms of public respect. They have a unique opportunity to keep our waters safe AND educate boaters in a professional but helpful manner. I'm not sure that is their mission.

Peter

Mp
 

Ive been pulled over several times for nothing .. Wasting my precious free time on the water.. They realy need to back off on the provacation.. Now in this already depressed economy they are going to have a crackdown..just what the local economy needs..
Marine patrol.. almost useless IMHO
43 years on the lake

100% Agree with this statement. I am usually quite a supporter and defender of the Marine Patrol. This "issue" that I spoke of and subsequently wrote an email to MPHQ about is minor in comparison to the benefit they provide. My email was directed as a notice to provide Marine Patrol with information that could help to improve MP/Civilian relations. Lots of people hate police, marine patrol, etc and this "issue" gives fuel to the fire, so to speak, for those people. If I were an MP director I would want my officers to be the picture of courteous boaters on the waterways. This "habit" that several officers seem to have adopted is discourteous at best. I really hope that, as the email stated to me, this issue was addressed to the MP officers and they change their "habits" sooner than later. It actually benefits the department more so than the civilian boater IMO.

I agree with all of the above. It's interesting to look at the U.S. Coast Guard as an example. This is their mission:

"The overall mission of the Coast Guard is to protect the public, the environment, and the United States economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and United States coasts, ports, and inland waterways." I have spent a fair amount of time in waters where the Coast Guard maintains an active presence. I don't know anybody, including myself that has ever had anything but the highest regards for Coasties.

just a job
 

I was just wondering if the mps are career oriented individuals that look upon we boaters as families and freinds enjoying the lake.They being there to keep us safe ,making sure we follow the rules and dont get hurt ,by being curtious and polite or stern when nessassary.Like the owner of a business that knows you pay his salery .-------------------OOOOOOOOOOR------------Are they more of the this is just a suumer job ,something to get me by till i can be a cop . more like a bouncer at a night club that would just as soon toss you out for nothing because its more fun . IMO theres probably some of each.Either way they do serve a purpose , I guess.

Mp
 

the easiest way to play the game is to just back off the throttle anytime they are around and 2-3 minutes later they're gone. If you get stopped I would be overly nice so they don't have any reason.

May not be the way you feel at the moment but if you are nice to the fuzz, your chances of them not writing you up go up dramatically. FWIW, in 7 years of boating I have never been stopped for any reason so maybe I've just been lucky.

Say What, When Your Butt Is In The Wind....
 

no paddles and or boat but plenty of cold water under you. Think about it folks. The Marine Patrol does a much better job than could be related to by some in this thread. Love them or not, they are here to do a job. No hitters in professional sports is one thing. Who among us has witnessed a cautious driver while in our daily commute to work! And we say to ourselves, please get this maniac off of our highways.
Life lets us lose some, and also win some. As much that we all love winni.
Let us let the Marine Patrol do their job, and let us do ours!!

Intimidated
 

That is the way I feel about the MP. Once I see them, I slow down to no wake. They never bother me. Unfortunately this waste a lot of gas. And my guest thinks I am intimidated by the MP. They are right. I'm not enjoying what I love to do if I am intimidated. :(

You aren't kidding. I boat a lot on the Merrimack, and when MP does show up, everyone warns each other, and most just avoid the end of the river they are on. Sure enough, on Saturday one of my buddies got nailed for another one of the "forced" 150' violation. He was cruising along, and the MP put himself in his way with no way around. Ended up with an $80 ticket after spending almost 45 mins with the MP.