The resort city of Laconia
 

This is primarily aimed at non-resident property owners. Of course, anyone is welcome to comment.

This is not to discount the local views, in fact quite the opposite. Those have been well represented in other issue-focused threads. The results of the debates effect us, the non-residents, in a very different way. We don’t live there, and our livelihoods don’t depend on the economy of the region. It’s not our homes, or our jobs.

As non resident property owners, what we do possess is a unique and somewhat unbiased view into the future of the city, and the lakes region. We will come and spend our money, pay our taxes, year after year. When we can’t afford to do it, someone who can will be right behind us. We are replaceable. As a whole, historically and in the future, all we really are is just group of people who love the lake and are a guaranteed, and relatively consistent, revenue stream for the area.

We are not substantially impacted by, nor will we impact, any of the current business debates. The Colonial, WOW Trail, and the runway extension are not aimed at us, but give a clear indication of the plans of people with a significant amount of money behind them.

Many of us come from areas that have seen cities like Laconia go through the same search for a new identity, and all the forces that brings together. We also come from areas that have experienced the same housing, employment, and tax challenges as the lakes region. We have seen this movie.

Will it work? Where do you see the city in financially in 10 - 20 years? What will the city look like?

If the past is any indication of the future, not much will change but I hope I'm wrong.

One thing is for sure Laconia will never be a "resort" so long as the crime and drug problems remains at the levels it is now. That is literally killing the city from going anywhere but sideways at best and should be the focus of those running the city.

Secondly to fix a place up requires investment which can't fall solely on just the resident and non-resident tax payers. Attracting outside investment will only happen when the aforementioned is addressed.

I actually disagree a little. Remembering that the downtown section and Weirs Beach are separate issues within the same city. Yes downtown needs to be addressed but making the Weirs into more of a resort such as Meredith or Wolfeboro is not dependent on cleaning up the downtown area. It however does require investment from outside sources. Tourists visiting the area mainly for the lake have little reason to go to the downtown area while vacationing.

I don’t mean to be
 

.....snarky in the least. Crime and drugs are a serious problem but more for full time residents than visitors. At least in the U.S. there are few places that escape the twin evils and that includes most of the lucrative resort areas.

I guess what I am saying is that making Laconia more of a destination does not depend on improving drugs and crime which is an almost insolvable problem but a worthy aspiration.

If you make it interesting, fun,, etc, they will come. It is 74 degrees in Coral Gables and packed with visitors despite both drugs and crime.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the info...
 

I've just taken Coral Gables off my list of places to visit ...

I second that


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All that is required to turn Weirs Beach / Laconia into Meredith is the right investor. Someone with Vision, and a willingness to put a lot of Money on the Line. With all the Vacant land the Weirs is ripe for the picking. It just takes Money....

There are lots right now sitting vacant, getting used once a week, because the current investors in those properties, are happy with the proceeds that the annual bike week event brings. Once an investor gets a hold of one of those properties, and can see a vision correctly things will change.....

In short the only things holding back the area of Laconia, is Laconia itself...Once they make it worth investors time to invest money in the empty lots around the Weirs, things will change....

A very simplistic view to a complex problem. If it were that simple it would have been resolved and substantial improvements would have started long ago.

The drive in property has pollution issues that will take a lot of money to resolve.

The large parcel of land next to Cumberland Farms has the potential for development. But additional requirements and conditions placed upon proposed development by government agencies made the proposal financially unwise. The owner has backed off and is rethinking his next move.

What would become of the Veterans Buildings on Lakeside Avenue? Buy them and tear them down? Highly unlikely.

What do you do to get the Ames family to sell their arcades, a cash cow, and let someone tear that property down? And would that be worth doing without the rest of the area being torn down for new construction?

Improving the area is a complex problem that may never be resolved on a large scale. Far more likely are a series of smaller individual improvements that will take a long time to have a significant impact on the area.

I’m sorry...Gary from where?

No drugs or crime there.

I would not recommend visiting here either....

Good one, Gary!

You shut that diversion off quickly!

We are having a little house built in the Weirs but up until now we have been vacationers to the Lakes Region and the Whites.

My choice to live in the entire state of NH was Meredith, but we could not find the right home for us, and with our new house going up right on the border, I think of it as Meredith really (kind of).

So don’t I, until the tax bill arrives!


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A few interesting responses
 

And I’m glad Gary chimed in, I want his opinion on something a little later.

Crime - it’s not going away, but it can be “moved” as someone said. And they will move it. If anything it makes properties in Laconia a better bargain. I am a little bewildered when I read some of the posts here about crime and drugs. Laconia is a city of 15K plus, starving for money. If it becomes a city of 15K with a bustling economy and 0% unemployment, you are still going to have crime and drugs.

The passions around the individual issues are very apparent, and effect people’s lives on a day to day basis. I want to use that phrase we all hate - let's step back and look at this from 30,000 feet.

"Laconia is a dead end", the "Weirs will never change”. Put that aside for a moment. Think blank slate, because that is really what you have - the entire Weirs and Lakeport area are ripe for redevelopment. It's also what potential investors see.

This isn’t a new idea, in fact it’s been (rightfully) laughed off many times. Especially by people who live there: Lakeport as a bustling artists community centered around food and entertainment. A short drive or train ride away is the happening bar and fun scene of Weirs. A little further up the line is the high end enclave of Meredith, and a little further down the line the yet to be developed even higher end Center harbor. It’s a (close to) year round vacation option for New England.

I may have chuckled before, too.

This is where Gary comes in. While we disagree politically, we do both come from the Bay Area. I see a lot of similarities between the two regions - and I wonder if he does as well. We have also seen that what you once thought was “a lot of money” for a house go to levels you can’t really comprehend, and how fast investments of “stupid amounts of money” can alter a landscape.

I’ll play devil’s advocate to the naysayers.

Laconia is a one hour drive from a rapidly growing metro area with a busy airport, and it is moving north towards you. In 20 years, “Massachusetts” will be as far north as Concord. That’s not the location of a quiet city on the lake. You’re practically a suburb. And it’s arguably some of the best real estate in new England.

In the last 3 years, approximately three hundred and thirty houses in the region sold with a price of over $1M, and seventy five of those have been in the last 6 months. About one hundred of all the sales had a value of over $2M. And how many of those homes are second homes? Laconia has an airport, and they can expand. Two years ago there were just shy of 1,500 turbine flights a year. Thats a lot of money flying in on a daily basis

While maybe not at the same scale, those are some California-esque numbers, and behavior. Can you imagine what they will be after a crash and recovery?

What is my point? From the posts I frequently read - I’m not sure people fully understand what a gold mine you are sitting on. And your world is not coming to mine. Mine is coming to your’s. The value of scarce resources, like SF and the lake, are rising exponentially, in previously incomprehensible ways. What is happening here, is what will be happening there in the not too distant future.

Tilton brought up an interesting point about the drive in. I’ll play devil’s advocate here too. Let’s say it will cost $3M to buy, and have all the archaeology questions answered. So you have to put in $3M before you know if it has any value. A $3M shot in the dark for fun with no guarantee of return.

Those folks exist, all over out the place out here. They will show up there soon.

Happy Thanksgiving. Can't wait to spend one up there.

This is exactly what is happening to New Hampshire. Out-of-staters come in and want to change it to how it was where they just moved from. If you don't like where you came from why do you want to implement it in New Hampshire. Please leave New Hampshire alone and mind your own business and just live a peaceful life. You can't so NH and Laconia will continue to go down the drain.

"Industries and businesses that must operate in the marketplace of free choice know that they must change, they must adapt, they must accommodate to changes in public attitudes-or they will surely die." -- William Ruckelshaus

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives but the most adaptable to change." --Charles Darwin

Whether you like it or not, change is inevitable. Commerce and local government alike must either adapt and welcome the change or fall behind. You can long for the way things used to be and remember them fondly, but there is nothing that can stop change. To fight change is futile and will only lead to frustration and spite. NH is constantly changing and always has been, and it's not just the out-of-staters leading the charge. They're just a cliche scapegoat for those who labor in vain to slow the inevitable.

You are correct with many of your statements, but I must add those million dollar sales you speak about are all second homes. Neither add to the employees or employers pool for the area. Unemployment is zero around here with few people coming in to fill the open positions. Laconia and the surrounding towns are and have been a resort area for the past two decades and I believe there is nothing wrong with that. It can thrive if allowed to. The issue is one of those looking to make it something it is not


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I will respectfully disagree. I know many people in the Lakes Region in homes worth well over a million dollars who live in their house full time. And right behind them, many people have a million dollar plus home in the area that is their primary residence although they may have a second home somewhere else.

They hire cleaning people, landscapers, snow removal and home improvement people for work around their house. They eat at local restaurants and shop at local stores. The people that have boats have them serviced at local marinas and buy their gas on the lake. And because their income is most likely on the high end of the scale they spend more money than the average person.

All of these things require local people and local businesses for support of their needs. That pumps money into the local and state economy and helps every one of us. And, the vast majority of those people use little or no town services. It is a substantial win for the local economy.

Do agree with what you say and support many of those services. My point was more towards new businesses starting and employees available to fill them. Both are limited or nonexistent today. The city and surrounding towns need to do move to support those needs and less of the current direction being taken


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OK so looking at the median cost of a house in Meredith right now according to Zillow is 369K. How exactly is the typical person living and working in the area doing landscaping, retail, working for a marina or in a restaurant going to swing a mortgage that is nearly 400K? Not going to happen, the numbers just don't add up. Especially when you add in the cost of every day living.

To afford a $400,000 house, for example, you need about $55,600 in cash if you put 10% down. With a 4.25% 30-year mortgage, your monthly income should be at least $8178 and (if your income is $8178) your monthly payments on existing debt should not exceed $981. (according to mortgage professor online)

That means you need just shy of a 6 figure income to afford the median house in Meredith. Even with two working, you'd be hard pressed to reach that threshold working these types of jobs.

The resort city of Laconia
 

Maxum your numbers are a bit skewed. 350k mortgage 30 year 4.25% is 1700 per month. Rule of thumb is one weeks pay for your mortgage or 88k per year salary but most instance now people do 1.5 to 2 weeks which could drop down to about 65k. Also remember the median cost of 369k takes into account all those multi million dollar homes.


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Yes, housing is a issue. More rental availability then homes. One example I see is most of your rental income is section 8. Those in it I assume need it. However, it limits available rental units and also available employees as earned income is so limited for those in the units


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Mortgage underwriters typically approve loans when the total house debt (principal, interest, taxes, insurance, condo fee if applicable) amount to 33% of your gross or less. Total debt for the applicants (housing, car payments, credit cards, cell phone Etc.) should not exceed 42% of the gross monthly income.

Like everything in life, there are exceptions. Excellent credit scores and a substantial down payment can help to push the limits higher. When two people apply, the lower credit score of the two people drives the approval process. Many times people need the income of the lower person to qualify but the low credit score sinks the deal.

Even after a loan is approved the lender runs a final credit report 24 to 48 hours before the closing. So, don't get approved for a mortgage and then finance a new car before the closing if your numbers are close!

Thanks to everyone for the replies.
 

Here are some thoughts.

Are they 2nd homes? I don’t think it matters, and if they are 2nd homes that’s probably worse for the status quo.

Let’s assume all are second homes, so no votes. First - that means all of what is happening is without the vote of, by far, the biggest block of voting real estate value.

Someone who has a $1.5M second home, is arguably not that far away from being able to say “You know, I’m done. Going to sell the main place and call it a day up in NH”. So all of these folks could easily become voters. And they will absolutely not vote the way you would like them to, even if you share the same party. They will get all the bells and whistles they want.

And however you look at it - these million dollar homes are all year round potential for spending, and a lot of it. Every move that appears to be happening is headed towards a year round service and tourist economy, which leads to exactly what Maxum and Winnisquam were talking about - Labor.

Baygo and Joey, amongst others, probably have the best view on this, since they touch on the issue daily. So rather than opine myself, I would like their opinion

As the region moves towards a longer “tourist and seasonal” economy, and all the labor and skills that involves, where are the people going to come from? We have seen the challenges with needing to import summer employees, and even then the very service businesses that we are talking about can’t stay open.

Is there a feeling that as the employment opportunities grow in the service industries, they will be supported by the existing population, or do you see the need for an influx of new workers? Is there a “tipping point” where seasonal can afford to live in the area? In other words, a bus boy can’t stay in the region with three months of employment, but at six it becomes workable?

What most people do versus what should be done are two entirely different things. If you are floating a mortgage that consumes up to 50% of your gross take home that leaves very little for other expenses and living costs, forget about saving a dime. This is how people get into financial trouble and the banks are all to happy to drive you right to the edge of financial disaster. Plus this assumes the buyer has at least 10% down in cash. Guarantee anyone holding down one of these jobs isn't sitting on something like that.

Even so, say we find that unicorn... let's use your numbers.... and push the minimum limit with 65K per year. None of these jobs alone will pay that. With an income of two that's 32K per person. That means each person needs to pull at least $18.00 per hour. Don't see any of these jobs paying that. Plus keep in mind some of these are seasonal!

The waterfront properties may skew the median home price a bit, but that is relative as the property tax rate is low comparatively speaking. The median tax rate in NH is right around $25.00 per thousand so that is $10.00 per thousand higher than Meredith which is 15 and change. Again using round figures. The more the tax rate is the less buying power you have as it increases it's share of the overall payment.

These people you are soaking about would not be purchasing a median priced home of 400k. There are more affordable homes for them under the median at a 200-250k price off the lake with very low property tax. As stated above a mortgage company will not approve a mortgage at 50% ratio. Also missing the extremely favorable rates and down payments for first time homebuyers. Additionally as mentioned in many other places the younger generation is more in favor of renting to have more disposable income.


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I'm sure there is a percentage of the population that is willing to do whatever to live in a particular place but the reality is these are not careers or even close to it. Most offer little to no benefits, are unstable at best, and this makes it incredibly difficult if not completely irresponsible to take on any significant financial burden such as a house or even a decent car when at any time your income could evaporate.

Not to say the entire job market in the area is comprised of this kind of work, but a good portion of it is.

For those that do move to these areas into a second home probably are doing so because they are sufficiently financially independent to the point they don't have to work. I have yet to meet anyone working at a landscape laborer that lives in a 1.5M waterfront house. They may OWN the company :-)

Those dam Mass holes! They just want to come up here and improve everything.
Why can't that just leave things the way they are? :emb::emb::emb::emb:

As the seasons extend with new tourist events such as a second pond hockey tournament the area would need a influx of permanent residents to fill the needs of the derive industry and they may as well come from Immigrants, hopefully legal ones. I do not see these positions filled by the current resident population.


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That's true, however have you seen what you can buy for that price? A place that is a wreck and needs lots of work so while your income may not be consumed with a house payment the repairs will. Even stuff in the 300-400K range often times need work too!

Floating more debt with a minimal or no down payment leaves no room for error if the market fluctuates south which it does do. If the rates increase that'll erode home values too. Many first time home owners don't sufficiently account for this.

Renting is always an option but often times renting is equally as expensive as buying. The only benefit is not having to worry about the cost of repairs.

I still emphasize that none of these options offer any room for savings and building a long term nest egg or even emergency fund.

I really think you are painting a very bleak picture and placing people and situations into the same box which is not the case at all.

Many such as myself start with fixers for their first home and improve over time, others just happy they own while still others choose to safe by renting. All the same a two wage earning family in the service industry can make it work in Meredith as long as choices are made according to the income.


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Many have made it work with two incomes from the service industry . Home prices at 200k are plentiful if you want to do a bit of work. I do however believe the area is in desperate need of rental housing that excludes section 8 units. Can you name one in the area, I can’t


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