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-   -   Boat noise laws thrown out? (https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=965)

Biggus 08-20-2004 06:52 PM

Boat noise laws thrown out?
 
My question has been answered. I'm not pleased with the direction this thread has taken.

Skip 08-20-2004 07:09 PM

That darn rumor mill....
 
Nope,

No truth to those rumors whatsoever.

There was some confusion over the administrative rule section of the marine code several month's ago (where the procedure for measuring & enforcing decibel violations exists), but that situation has been rectified and the code and applicable RSA's remain in full force.

As always, a quick call to the Marine Patrol HQ in Gilford, NH (603-293-2037)should quickly confirm that the aforementioned rumors are not true. :)

Skip

Outlaw 08-20-2004 07:56 PM

RSA's for measuring & enforcing decibel viloations
 
Skip -

Curious if nothing else, but after reading your post, I sit here wondering what the RSA's are for this (as I am sure others are). Is there a web site you can direct me to that would explain this?

In advance, thanks so much for your help. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_114.gif

Skip 08-20-2004 08:30 PM

Happy to oblige!
 
Hi Outlaw,

Attached below is the RSA governing noise & below that the administrative rule section defining the testing procedure;

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY
CHAPTER 270
SUPERVISION OF NAVIGATION; REGISTRATION OF BOATS AND MOTORS; COMMON CARRIERS BY WATER
Motorboat Noise Levels
Section 270:37
270:37 Decibel Limits on Noise. –
I. No person may operate any boat powered by a marine engine manufactured before January 1, 1977, in or upon the waters of this state which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds a noise level of 86 decibels on the "A' scale measured at a distance of 50 feet from the boat.
II. No person may operate, sell, or offer for sale any marine engine for use in or upon the waters of this state which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the following noise levels measured at a distance of 50 feet from the boat with which the engine is tested under RSA 270:39:
(a) For a marine engine manufactured in or before 1977, a noise level of 86 decibels on the "A' scale.
(b) For a marine engine manufactured between January 1, 1978, and December 31, 1981, a noise level of 84 decibels on the "A' scale.
(c) For a marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1981, a noise level of 82 decibels on the "A' scale.
III. Noise levels in decibels shall be measured according to procedures established pursuant to rules adopted under RSA 270:39.
IV. The director or his agent may order the operator or owner of any boat which he reasonably believes is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the decibel limits contained in this section to subject his boat to noise level testing procedures as provided in this subdivision.
V. A boat owner or operator shall submit a boat which is the subject of an order by the director or his agent pursuant to RSA 270:37, IV to noise level testing by the director or his agent within 7 days of such an order. No person shall operate the boat after this 7-day period has expired until it is subjected to such noise level testing.
VI. The director or his agent may prohibit the operator or owner of any boat which fails a noise level testing procedure from operating the boat until the boat successfully passes the procedure. No person shall operate a boat contrary to such an order of the director.
VII. Pursuant to the penalties imposed under RSA 270:41-a, any person convicted of violating this section shall be fined not less than $100. No portion of any fine imposed under this section shall be suspended or reduced by the court.


Noise Testing Procedures;

Saf-C 403.22 Noise Level Testing Procedure.

(a) This section shall set forth the procedure to be used to measure marine engine noise levels, pursuant to RSA 270:36-40.

(b) The following instruments shall be used to measure decibel levels of marine engines and motors:

(1) A precision sound level meter that conforms to the specifications of ANSI S1.4-1983; and

(2) An external field test, such as a sound level calibrator.

(c) The test site shall be located in a calm body of water that is large enough to allow full speed pass-bys, such as Paugus Bay in Lake Winnipesaukee.

(d) The area around the test site, for a minimum distance of 100 feet, shall be free of large obstructions, such as buildings, boats, hills, large piers, and breakwater walls.

(e) The test course shall consist of 3 small buoys, in a straight line.

(f) The test boat shall be positioned parallel to the test course, at a distance of 50 feet from the center buoy of the course. The bow and stern of a test boat shall be secured to moorings.

(g) There shall be a marine patrol officer on board each boat tested. The marine patrol officer shall stay on board each boat tested to verify that the boat was operated at maximum speed, pursuant to (k) below, for 2 of the pass-bys, during the noise level test.

(h) Calibration shall be as follows:

(1) The sound level meter used for the purpose of making measurements under this section shall be calibrated using an external field test;

(2) Field calibration of the sound level meter shall be made immediately before and after each test sequence;

(3) A notation of successful completion of the field calibration shall be made, by the person performing the calibration, on a noise test report form;

(4) An external standard calibration test shall be conducted annually on the sound level meter, and the external field test; and

(5) A copy of the external calibration test forms, filled out by the person(s) who performed the last external standard calibration, shall be evidence that the sound level meter and external field test were properly calibrated at the time of the noise level test.

(i) The ambient sound level, including wind effects, due to noise sources other than the vessel being tested, shall be measured immediately prior to the test sequence of the vessel to be tested. The value shall be recorded.

(j) The temperature, humidity, and windspeed shall be recorded. They shall be the current values available and reported by the National Weather Service at the nearest observation station to the site.

(k) The test shall consist of 4 passes along the test course of 3 buoys, at a distance of 1 to 3 feet from the buoys. The direction of travel shall be reversed between each run. The first 2 runs shall be at the boat's half throttle cruising speed, and the other 2 runs shall be at full throttle.

(l) During each test, all radio equipment shall be switched off. An officer shall hold the sound level meter 5 to 6 feet above the water with the microphone inclined approximately 70 degrees off horizontal, facing the center buoy of the test course. The results of each run shall be recorded by a marine patrol officer in the test boat.

(m) Each meter reading shall be obtained as the boat is within the boundaries of the test course, at the highest sound level for each speed.

(n) All values for (m) above shall be recorded, however, the sound level shall be the average of the 2 readings, rounded down to the nearest whole number.

(o) The officers conducting the noise level tests shall maintain a log sheet that records the following information:

(1) Name and address of owner of the boat;

(2) Date of birth of boat owner;

(3) The document that the officer checked for proof of identification of the boat operator;

(4) Names of officers conducting the test;

(5) Date and time of test;

(6) Location of test site;

(7) Weather conditions;

(8) Water conditions;

(9) Color of the boat being tested;

(10) Make and model number of boat being tested;

(11) Length of boat;

(12) Boat registration number;

(13) Hull number;

(14) Names or distinguishing marking on the boat;

(15) The result of the field test of the sound level meter;

(16) Direction of the test pass; either left or right; and

(17) Results of each test.

madrasahs 08-20-2004 09:12 PM

Why worry about the law?
 
There are at least six stealthy techniques to satisfy your need to draw attention to yourself -- using your through-hull exhausts.

The most popular seems to be a dash-mounted control to "turn off the water" (to a water-muffled muffler). The MPs seem to be "baffled" by such a device.

Another site says "Snatch your registration back from the [Winnipesaukee] Marine Patrol Officer and take off. They'll never catch an 80 MPH boat."

'Course, at night, you can always turn off your lights, open your pipes, make lots of extra noise -- and never get caught.

NH's "Benign by Design" laws favor "Noise and Action" boating...among other things.

Outlaw 08-20-2004 11:02 PM

Skip - you kill me http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_5_132.gif .....thank you FOR the RSA, so much more than I was expecting. Good Reading though. Appreciate your time and help on this... Thanks so much.

NightWing 08-24-2004 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madrasahs

The most popular seems to be a dash-mounted control to "turn off the water" (to a water-muffled muffler). The MPs seem to be "baffled" by such a device.

The device you refer to does not turn off the water to the muffler. It directs the exhaust through the lower unit (under water), or straight through the hull or transom, via a diverter plate on each exhaust pipe. Such devices are NOT LEGAL in New Hampshire waters.

Shutting the water flow off would cause extreme overheating of the exhaust system and would melt any rubber connections or hoses. It could even cause an engine compartment fire.

NightWing 08-25-2004 12:03 AM

Thank you. I have read so many of his posts I felt it was time to play once more. I just registered in this new format and I am getting used to it all over again. I used to post quite often in the old forum. I was a little disapointed that the "new" didn't recognize the "old" and I had to start from scratch again.

( Wait a minute, where did the post go that I replied to with this one? I thanked someone for their positive response to my post.) :confused:

Outlaw 08-25-2004 12:30 AM

NightWing welcome back !


Let the GAMES begin .... http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_14_104.gif

madrasahs 08-25-2004 08:35 PM

Not Legal, huh?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing
Shutting the water flow off would cause extreme overheating of the exhaust system

The steel won't melt. It'll get red, but it won't melt.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing
...and would melt any rubber connections or hoses.

If you have rubber connections, and shut it off long enough, it could. Spares are cheap.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing
The device you refer to does not turn off the water to the muffler. It directs the exhaust through the lower unit (under water), or straight through the hull or transom, via a diverter plate on each exhaust pipe. Such devices are NOT LEGAL in New Hampshire waters.

NOT LEGAL? Really?

Take note of my previous title: Why worry about the law?

On Winnipesaukee, start with a boat named "A-- M---", and I'll get a few more boat names in the meantime. (That is, if you're even from within 1000 miles of Lake WInnipesaukee).

A lot of these "annoyed" responses come from other states, always on the lookout for lakes with naïve state laws -- and inadequate enforcement -- to put in their noisy boats.

Try to see the incentive in the original post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggus
"I'm a Sebago Lake boater and we have heard from several people that the boat noise laws (in NH) have been thrown off the books. Any truth to this rumor?".

(Biggus didn't mention that there is a citizen's initiative underway to kick Big Noisy Boats out of the State of Maine).

With other states' lawmakers cracking down on such abuses on lakes and coves nationwide, this lake could sound like Lake Interstate.

Cal 08-25-2004 09:59 PM

[QUOTE=madrasahs]The steel won't melt. It'll get red, but it won't melt.
.
If you have rubber connections, and shut it off long enough, it could. Spares are cheap.

Utterly rediculous. It could cause a fire and /or a sinking.

Mad, Why don't you take a cork out of your wine and put it in your whine :laugh: :laugh:
.

CMG 08-26-2004 08:21 AM

while the exhaust may not melt, don't think the heat generated in the engine compartment would be benificial. water always flows throught the exhaust, the only difference is under water ot below.

Blue Thunder 08-27-2004 07:28 AM

Give us a break Mad Racer
 
Hey Mad,

Just for your information, the Sebago Lake Safety Watch is not attempting to ban big boats from Sebago Lake (Maine's 2nd largest lake, 50 square miles of water). They have recently formed to try and get a handle on unsafe operation of all types of water craft on the lake. The plan is to have as many eyes as possible out there to report unsafe boat operators to the Maine Warden's Service and the local town's Marine Patrol.
As far as I know, switchable exhaust is not legal in NH, however it is in Maine. Having said that, Maine enforces a certain decibel level at a certain distance from the measuring device.

Hey Biggus, I've heard the Marine Patrol now has the measuring device on Sebago and are writing tickets. BTW, your boat is beautiful!

Blue Thunder

madrasahs 08-27-2004 10:30 AM

Maine approves boat fires and boat sinkings?
 
Seems like Big Boaters have caused an on-going disagreement among themselves:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing
The device you refer to does not turn off the water to the muffler. It switches the exhaust through the lower unit (under water), or straight through the hull or transom, via a diverter plate on each exhaust pipe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal
Utterly rediculous. It could cause a fire and /or a sinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing
Shutting the water flow off would cause extreme overheating of the exhaust system and would melt any rubber connections or hoses. It could even cause an engine compartment fire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistantThunder
As far as I know, switchable exhaust is legal in Maine.

:confused: It's legal to burn and/or sink your boat in Maine? Boy, this "ignorance of the law is no excuse" business is confusing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal
Mad, Why don't you take a cork out of your wine and put it in your whine

Somehow I'm less entitled? Here's what you wrote last month:
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal
I usually stay at the NASWA so there aren't many High Performance boats screaming by at 2 am , but I do get my share of bikes on that road. I don't like it...

Sounds like wine + whine to me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal
More wonderful words of wisdom from our resident "whatchamacallit" boat lover :rolleye1: :laugh:

Yes, I am a Winnipesaukee shorefront resident: and that makes all the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistantThunder
Just for your information, the Sebago Lake Safety Watch is not attempting to ban big boats from Sebago Lake...

Sorry, I've never heard of "Sebago Lake Safety Watch".

The citizen's group in Maine I read of began with "Lakes Region Something-or-other"

I have a question about Maine regulations: Are their registration numbers on their boats larger than NH's? (That may get on my list of improvements to Winnipesaukee's boating environment).

Mee-n-Mac 08-27-2004 01:03 PM

Reading for comprehension
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by madrasahs
Seems like Big Boaters have caused an on-going disagreement among themselves:

:confused: It's legal to burn and/or sink your boat in Maine? Boy, this "ignorance of the law is no excuse" business is confusing.

Let me step infor just a moment and try to clear up your misunderstanding because I don't see any disagreement. Are you trying to create one or really didn't follow the below ...

On 8/20 @ 9:12 pm
Quote:

Originally Posted by madrasahs
There are at least six stealthy techniques to satisfy your need to draw attention to yourself -- using your through-hull exhausts.
The most popular seems to be a dash-mounted control to "turn off the water" (to a water-muffled muffler). The MPs seem to be "baffled" by such a device.

which drew this response on 8/24 @ 10:02 pm
Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing
The device you refer to does not turn off the water to the muffler. It directs the exhaust through the lower unit (under water), or straight through the hull or transom, via a diverter plate on each exhaust pipe. Such devices are NOT LEGAL in New Hampshire waters.
Shutting the water flow off would cause extreme overheating of the exhaust system and would melt any rubber connections or hoses. It could even cause an engine compartment fire.

Seems to me NightWing is saying madrasahs is wrong re: turning off water and trying to tell him about "Captains Call" exhaust, a switchable system that either directs exhaust out under the water or straight out the transom, and is not legal in NH. (Blue Thunder later added such exhaust is legal in Maine). I'll add that I've seen new Chris-Crafts w/Captains Call (or similar type) exhaust, unexpected since at 23' it's neither an "offshore" nor a dedicated performance boat. Go figure....

which got this response on 8/25 @ 8:35 pm
Quote:

Originally Posted by madrasahs
The steel won't melt. It'll get red, but it won't melt.
If you have rubber connections, and shut it off long enough, it could. Spares are cheap.

which prompted this on 8/25 @ 9:59 pm
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal
Utterly rediculous. It could cause a fire and /or a sinking.
Mad, Why don't you take a cork out of your wine and put it in your whine

So putting aside the actual topic, seems that nobody in this thread is promoting "shutting off the water". Capt's Call exhaust won't cause fires and sink your boat, is legal in ME but not in NH.

You all may return to the actual debate now :)

NightWing 08-27-2004 06:29 PM

Thank you Mee-n-Mac for helping clarify my statement. I was trying to explain to Madrasahs that he was not clear how an adjustable exhaust system operates. Cooling water is introduced into the exhaust stream, regardless if the exit point is above or below the water line. Notice I didn't say "muffling water" because water alone does not meet the state definition of a muffler.

Now, to shut that water flow off, even for a short time, would seriously overheat the exhaust system from the risers on back to the exit point. Most through hull exhaust systems have some type of rubber connection, sometimes a length of hose or a small "hump hose" which allows for slight movement and misalignment. True, some of the faster, high performance boats have solid systems with nothing but stainless steel piping. Still, those systems require cooling water to keep exhaust temperature under control.

As far as being a fire hazard, consider that the exhaust system on a boat is not out in the airflow, like an automobile. The entire powerplant is under cover in a compartment with marginal ventilation, and that compartment is of fiberglass or wooden construction, both items well suited for a nice, hot fire.


That being said, adjustable exhaust systems, whether named Captain's Call, Silent Choice, or Quick and Quiet II Plus, all share a similar method of allowing the exhaust to exit, un-muffled, through the hull or transom, instead of through the lower unit under water. That similarity is a diverter plate in each exhaust pipe and they are operated with various types of solenoids or cylinders and are controlled either by the operator or by some type of basic engine management system. Again, those adjustable devices are not legal in New Hampshire waters.


Finally, I would like to point out that I am not a "Big Boater".

madrasahs 08-29-2004 10:29 AM

It's my lying hearing again...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac
Let me step in for just a moment and try to clear up your misunderstanding because I don't see any disagreement. Are you trying to create one...

Moi?

It's true, as a long-time Winnipesaukee boater, I had never heard of Captain's Call, Silent Choice, or Quick and Quiet II Plus -- only the phrase, "shutting off the water". (NightWing: "all share a similar method of allowing the exhaust to exit, un-muffled, through the hull or transom").

What I thought I was hearing while quietly sailing on Winnipesaukee was this: http://www.jetworks.net/fcar2.htm

I searched Captain's Call, and found this:

http://boards.trailerboats.com/cgi-b...c;f=2;t=001811

"Help, pleez......my main concern is that it is so loud even with the Captain's Call diverter closed...and just unbearable with the Captain's Call on. This is not what I expected."

In addition to the "helpful" posts that state, "You bought it...You own it", and "You didn't try it first?" There was this:

"I have a Captain’s Call on a four winns 23 horizon and the exhausts is louder than the other boats I have owned in the past. You get a good little rumble with the valves closed due to the exhaust not being under water. I was lucky I was able to test drive my new boat last fall so I knew what to expect. I also used a GPS and did several runs with the flappers opened and closed and found a difference of about 2 MPH."

And the submitter of that last posted remark was...?

"NH BOATER". :eek:

"Illegal in New Hampshire", huh? This is a Vast NightWing Conspiracy.

My ears do not deceive me. :look:

NightWing 08-30-2004 02:25 AM

Conspiracy? Are you for real?

So, someone named NH Boater admits to having an illegal system and you cry conspiracy. By your own admission, you are not familiar with exhaust systems.

Some people speed, rape, rob, murder, cheat on their taxes, beat their spouses etc, ad nauseum. All of those acts are against the law, but they happen. There is no conspiracy. Laws help keep the honest people honest. There will always be people who break the law.

In a perfect world.......................

Blue Thunder 08-31-2004 12:56 PM

Where are you coming from anyway Mad ??
 
How is it that you can use other screen names properly and not mine?

What did I do to deserve that? :confused:

Nevermind....I think I figured it out for myself...I made the mistake of trying to clarify some of the information in your post.

Blue Thunder

HUH 08-31-2004 06:04 PM

Annoying sailboaters
 
Why do sailboats usually have the little infernal combustion engine running ..And do they feel since they are so inadiquately powered that the can skirt the ROW laws..
Also seems alot of them are driving large SUV's most of the time so there goes the environment.. I believe my diaper is full :confused: :confused:

madrasahs 09-04-2004 08:48 AM

Where the real Thunder belongs...
 
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing
Conspiracy? Are you for real?

There's no such thing as a Vast Night Wing Conspiracy. (It rhymes, you may have noticed, with another "conspiracy").

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUH
Why do sailboats usually have the little infernal combustion engine running ..And do they feel since they are so inadiquately powered that the can skirt the ROW laws..

I can't speak for all powered sailboats, as I don't have one. They do have one collision-avoidance advantage, though, in that they can turn on a dime regardless of speed -- something your boat can't do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder
How is it that you can use other screen names properly and not mine?

Nothing personal...It's just that "Product Identification" offshore thing.

But I had just read of 24-year-old, 5' 2", Ellen MacArthur's offshore sailing, where she raced around the world non-stop ALONE -- finishing second in 79 days -- and had to climb an 80-foot mast to fix an antenna in the effort.

Think of all the males with boat names associated with "Thunder" (Black Thunder, Thunder-Struck, EMI Thunder, Active Thunder, Distant Thunder, and the oxymoronic Silent Thunder.

All that these "thunder men" have in common is an ignition key, machismo, noise -- and maybe just a little arrogance. Nothing personal, but it "steals the thunder" from Ellen MacArthur's offshore exploits, if you know what I mean. Ellen makes them "Girlie-Men" by comparison.

Her book, Taking on the World is available on-line, and will help support this forum if purchased through the book store at http://www.winnipesaukee.com/howtohelp.html.

NightWing 09-04-2004 04:03 PM

"There's no such thing as a Vast Night Wing Conspiracy. (It rhymes, you may have noticed, with another "conspiracy")."

????????????????// Well, I am totally lost on your analogy, unless you are referring to our former First Lady when she said there was a "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" going on against her husband. Certainly, politics haven't entered into the discussion about loud boats, have they? :D

On another note, Former President Clinton will be undergoing emergency quadruple bypass surgery in the next day or so. Let's put our differences aside and have a good thought for him. :)

Zeke 09-06-2004 01:30 PM

HUH, huh?
 
HUH,
The small motors on sailboats are almost always adequate, The reason for the small size is due to the fact a sailboat will only be pushed to it's theoretical hull speed, which is not a planning speed. Any horses after that are wasted. Regarding all these sailors who do not watch ROW rules, my expierience is they tend to be considerably better at this than most, mainly out of necessity. They don't really have the ability to jump on the throttle to "get by" in front of you. It's some what like my driving down the road at 80, and wondering why I always have these slow cars in front of me. I get the sense your one of the powerboaters who call sail boats rag baggers, or the like. Yes, no?

NightWing 09-06-2004 11:34 PM

Actually, the Clinton thing started with the "it rhymes with another conspiracy" comment by our sailboating friend. Once that small connection was made, I just expanded on it and one thing led to another. I never intended for it to be a bone of contention and it wasn't worthy of its own thread. I just made a comment about the man's condition. I would have suggested the same thoughts for most anyone. Quadruple bypass is not a walk in the park.

Rob 09-07-2004 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggus
I think we will head over to Winni next weekend.

If you see a 38 Cigarette with red transom, wave and say hello.

Good. You should come to the forum gathering, then we can check out the Konrads.

Rob

madrasahs 09-07-2004 10:43 AM

I don't get this "beneficence" thing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke
"The small motors on sailboats are almost always adequate..."

When the weather gets really rough, even these small motors become useless. (The propeller leaves the water between wave troughs). Then it's time to put up the storm trysail and "reef" the mainsail (reduce the surface area).

It's always a treat to read magazine photo-op accounts turning into races -- when sailboats arrive hours ahead of the photographers' powerboats.

BTW, the citizens' action against disruptive boaters on Sebago Lake is called "Lakes Region Safe Boating Assocation".

Now "Disruptive Boaters" want to grace Lake Winnipesaukee with their Great Beneficence. (Bad press from Sebago is responsible perhaps?)

Blue Thunder 09-09-2004 09:43 AM

"BTW, the citizens' action against disruptive boaters on Sebago Lake is called "Lakes Region Safe Boating Assocation"."

The group that I referred to is the Sebago Water Safety Watch. Some of their info is available at this link:

http://www.fryeisland.com/watch/index.htm

Blue Thunder

Will 09-09-2004 02:18 PM

Madrasahs Wrong? Come on guys no way!
 
Ok I've been lurking around here for a while and have continuously seen posts by madrasahs totally bashing the offshore boaters on this forum. You (Madrasahs) have said yourself that you do not own a Offshore machine so nor do you know how they work.(as seen forehand.). So my question stands, how can you draw a conclusion to which you don't know. It seems as though you almost post for attention?

My suggestion to you, since you seem to be always correcting all of the other forum members is this: You act, or try to act, at least, like you know what your talking about, but you don't, especially on this thread. Now your probably going to comeback and make a post and try to make me look stupid, dwelling on little things such as spelling or grammatical errors. But you will still be wrong. I honestly and truly suggest next time before trying to "sting" your fellow man that you carefully research your topic. Remember research is the key to knowledge, cause as the NBC commercial says, "The More Ya Know!"

Mad, Were all in this together, its a big lake and unless you have enough money to buy all the land around it, people are still going to boat on it. Marinas and the people at them make their living from it, others vacation on it ( those would be the "Yuppies" you speak of". So my last piece of knowledge for you is to enjoy it, enjoy your home, enjoy the lake. No matter what you do, no matter who you try to write to, its not going to change. So just enojoy it. People will always boat here and boats will continue to be loud.

Maybe you should look into the "If you can't beat them join them" idea.

Just a thought but Silver Sands Marina has a beautiful 38 Fountain Lightning that you'd look good in.

Good Luck
We're all in this together.,
Will

GWC... 09-09-2004 04:04 PM

That's a very funny thought...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Will
Just a thought but Silver Sands Marina has a beautiful 38 Fountain Lightning that you'd look good in.

That's a very funny thought...

Fountains seem to have a negative reaction to the Lake.

Do they not like fresh water? :rolleye2:

NightWing 09-09-2004 04:28 PM

"its a big lake and unless you have enough money to buy all the land around it, people are still going to boat on it."

Will, good post with good arguments. Point of order though is the above statement from your post.

Even if Mr. Mad owned every bit of land around the lake, it would still be a public lake.

True, he probably wouldn't allow people to cross the line to launch, but a new cottage industry could spring up on Weirs Blvd called something like "Formula Airlift" or "Offshores And More, Delivered To Your Moor", or "Donzis From Heaven".

Surplus military equipment helicopters could be used for Valet Service airdrops on the Broads, or better yet, in front of Mad's digs.

That way, he could record bow numbers and videotape the noisy, polluting vessels that are powered by big blocks instead of bedsheets. LOL! :D

Jan 09-09-2004 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will
Ok I've been lurking around here for a while and have continuously seen posts by madrasahs totally bashing the offshore boaters on this forum. You (Madrasahs) have said yourself that you do not own a Offshore machine so nor do you know how they work.(as seen forehand.). So my question stands, how can you draw a conclusion to which you don't know. It seems as though you almost post for attention?

This isn't just aimed at you Will but is it so hard to believe that someone may see an issue differently than you? And since when do you have to be an expert on something to have an opinion?

I'm a lurker too and what I mostly see is Madrasahs giving his opinions without getting nasty and with a sense of humor. He also tries to back up his comments with links to articles about similar topics or incidents. That is very much unlike most of his detractors who are frequently rude and irrational (IMHO). I thought only politicians just smear anyone they disagree with. Except for Skip (a notable exception), they rarely back up their opinions and just have hissy fits every time Madrasahs posts anything.

It's really too bad since I think it intimidates other people who may share some of his opinions but don't want to get attacked. Certainly he and I are not the only ones concerned about the excessively large, powerful and noisy boats that are growing in numbers every year on the lake. It seems to me that this is a suitable topic for this forum and everyone should be able to give their opinion without being ripped apart.

I personally like to read both sides of issues. If the anti-Madrasahs crowd would respond in a more thoughtful and less emotional way I would give their opinion more weight.

Will 09-09-2004 05:07 PM

Madrasahs supporter
 
Never in my article did I say his opinions were wrong, it was however clearly stated throughout the thread that his suggestions would surely smoke a motor. In your boat, you are totally free to read the everything guide to boating, by madrasahs. However in mine, id like to keep my motors, 12k A PIECE!, in tact. SOOOOOO, I do believe that the idea of shutting off water to a WATER COOLED motor, would overheat it and do some serious damage, if not start a fire. (Just a little fact, I figured id throw out there). Now there is a list as long as my arm and im sure plenty of people can support me that posts made have been more that coincedently bashing to most of us. Jan I totally agree with you that the forum is a place for self expression, but if I express myself by having an offshore boat, I do not expect nor do i deserve to be bashed for that simple fact.

Sincerely,
Water Cooled
Will

Mee-n-Mac 09-09-2004 05:49 PM

And the answer is ...
 
No doubt I'll live and regret this but the question remains. Yes the original question was whether the noise laws had expired (no) but the resulting topic seemed to be whether (some) boats are too loud and whether they're doing it by unlawful means. Everyone is going to have their own definition of too loud so I'll ask whether illegal exhaust systems are the major problem or whether the dB limits stated above are too high ?

Cal 09-09-2004 06:13 PM

Jan,
You're pretty much correct...everyone is entitled to there own opinion :)
There are thing I don't like too , but I don't use the forum for my own personal soap box over and over again.
I have also been "quoted" by "someone" who only used part of what I said and then turned it around to use it against me to make me look like a fool :eek: This person would make one GREAT politician :rolleye2:.
I think this person may just be sitting back laughing at us behind their anonimnity(sp).
So if I and other performance boats ignore partial truths and misquotes and don't "play " with this person...maybe that will take the fun out of it for them. In hind sight , many of their statements seemed to invite counter attacks which I feel I may have been suckered into.
I've tried to state this tactfully and politically correctly with no personal attacks.
Have a wonderful day :)

Will 09-10-2004 08:34 AM

a Problem?
 
How do you get off saying that a preferrably loud boat is a problem? I suppose that this would mean that all people who drive muscle cars have a problem too? Im sorry us offshore boaters disturb you while on the lake. Oh yah and to respond to your comment about me being sober, and able to drive the boat? I have a commercial captains license, so someone (USCG) thinks im pretty able. I would urge you as I did to madrasahs to just share the lake with us, offshores will not go away, they will become louder, people just need to learn to live with it.
W

DoftheMattysort 09-13-2004 10:19 AM

Two thumbs up for Will
 
Will, who ever you are, you hit the nail on the head. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. Leave the broads to us who don't mind spending money and are not to cheap to spend $300 a weekend on gas. :D :D :D

madrasahs 09-13-2004 08:21 PM

Why "Big" comes to Winnipesaukee.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taupe Thunder
"BTW, the citizens' action against disruptive boaters on Sebago Lake is called [/I]"Lakes Region Safe Boating Assocation"."

The group that I referred to is the
Sebago Water Safety Watch. Some of their info is available at this link:

http://www.fryeisland.com/watch/index.htm

I read now that the Sebago Water Safety Watch is very concerned about the plummeting quality of recreational boating on Sebago Lake. (A large, pure-water, lake).

Here's the one I was referencing: http://www.lrsla.org/ (Also Sebago Lake).

They've been archiving videotapes of "disruptive boaters", and guess what? Biggus is featured in their videotapes!

Their website opens with:

SAFE Boating / QUIET Lakes

"LRSLA supports Safe Boating and Quiet Lakes on our regions surface waters. Our local waters have been heavily impacted by high performance boats. Regulation enforcement has not been maintained at a level commensurate to the need.

"DUI operation has increased as well as extensive violations of no wake zones, slow speed zones and shore safety zones.

"Through education, safe boating and quiet lakes advocacy and funding of enforcement activities LRSLA is working to make surface water recreation on our regions surface waters an enjoyable, safe, high quality, experience."

Will 09-13-2004 09:07 PM

Biggus
 
Biggus, look what happened! You were attacked, whats amatter with you anyways? You think the lake is just a place to go have fun and enjoy the weekend on your boat that YOU paid for? Come on we cant do that, well that is unless you have a sailboat........

GWC... 09-13-2004 09:41 PM

One grain of sand at a time will fill the bucket...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoftheMattysort
Will, who ever you are, you hit the nail on the head. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. Leave the broads to us who don't mind spending money and are not to cheap to spend $300 a weekend on gas. :D :D :D


Hope you didn't forget to send $15.00 to support the Webmaster's Dream cam. :rolleye2:

Rattlesnake Gal 09-14-2004 10:02 AM

The noise video has been disabled. :( I am disappointed that I could not check out what Biggus and his ride looks like!


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