From the Concord Monitor, 9/8/2009
 

Has everyone seen this article from the Concord Monitor? I've been meaning to post it up since it first appeared in the paper. Text is below; here's the link, http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...PAGE/909080303.

First speed limit test comes to end
Little consensus on effects of enforcement

By Chelsea Conaboy
Monitor staff
Sept. 8, 2009


Is Lake Winnipesaukee safer now that it has a 45 mph speed limit? There was little consensus among boaters interviewed yesterday while they were enjoying the last of the summer sun or pulling their boats for winter storage.

Yesterday marked the end of the busy boating season on the lake. It was also the end of the first of two trial summers for the speed limit law.

"The speed limit's a joke," said Jason Brindamour of Dover at the Glendale docks, who has a camp on Mark Island. "It's not doing any good."

Brindamour, who said he has three boats on the lake that top out at just over 50 mph, said the Marine Patrol should be more focused on cracking down on people who drink and drive and don't obey a law requiring boaters to cut the throttle within 150 feet of other boats, the shore or swimmers. He doesn't think a speed limit is necessary.

"This place isn't the wild, wild, west that people make it out to be," he said.

Kelly Wieser of Campton would disagree. She grew up spending summers on Welch Island. As a kid, she was allowed to drive small boats around the lake, Boston Whalers mostly. She and her brother, at ages 10 and 8, had a gig delivering Sunday newspapers by boat.

She worries whether the lake will be safe enough for her daughters, now 2 and 4, to learn to drive someday.

"It's just become crazy over the years," she said.

Wieser said she thinks the speed limit has been a deterrent for the fast "offensive" boats.

"They have to think about it twice before bombing down the lake," she said.

The issue of whether to limit speed on the state's lakes had been one of hot debate in the Legislature for years.

A bill passed easily in January 2008 with two conditions: The speed limit applies only to Lake Winnipesaukee, the state's largest lake, and will sunset in 2011.

The idea was to give state officials two years to collect data and then reassess whether the law was necessary and enforceable.

Marine Patrol Sgt. Crystal McLain said Winnipesaukee officers have conducted stationary speed monitoring - standing on a dock, using six radars for a total of 60 hours since early July.

She did not have statistics yesterday on how many speed stops had been made or tickets issued. No boaters interviewed yesterday said they knew of anyone who received a ticket. Boating overall is down this year. The Marine Patrol has seen a 20 percent drop in calls for service.

McLain said that's likely due in part to the rainy weather and in part to the economy.

McLain said the officers don't see speed violations as frequently as other violations, such as boaters not using proper navigation lights at night, not having the proper safety equipment on board or not adhering to the 150-foot rule.

At the Meredith town docks, Rick Evans and Becka Cail of Exeter said they hadn't noticed any difference on the lake this year. The law has had no effect on them or how they use the lake. Their boat isn't made to travel at faster than 45 mph.

"They're probably kind of angry," Evans said, nodding his head in the direction of two high-performance boats docked nearby.

One belonged to Mike and Kate Palmieri of Concord. High-performance boats, sometimes referred to as cigarette boats, are made for high-speed travel and were originally designed for off-shore ocean use.

The Palmieris aren't happy about the law but said it hasn't changed how they drive, which they said is almost never faster than 38 mph. They respect the lake and other drivers, they said.

"It's a beautiful lake, and everybody should be able to enjoy it no matter what kind of boat they have," said Mike Palmieri, CEO of Havenwood-Heritage Heights.

Palmieri said the mechanic that works on his boat suggested he push the engine to its full speed every so often to keep it in good condition. If they opened up the throttle, Palmieri said, they would do so far from other boats.

Chris Landry of Milford, the owner of the high-performance boat docked next to the Palmieris' had stronger feelings about the speed limit law.

"It's a waste," he said.

According to Landry, problems on the lake aren't caused by the fastest boats out there but by "stupid, inattentive people driving boats."

General Consensus
 

At last, a reporter, with no bias, tells it as it is on the lake. Asking folks who actually use this lake their honest opinion.:cool:

Good article
 

Once again, it would appear that most understand why the lake traffic was down this year, and that it Was down. Even the Marine Patrol seems to know more about the problems on the lake than those with a perception, not facts.

For those that are truly innocent in this debate, meaning they really believe fast is the problem. There was a great story here about how people perceived a group of go-fasts to be going very fast. It was reported they were going around the speed limit.

I bet if ten 20 foot boats were going 60 mph in a group, I doubt many could guess what their speed was. I also would guess that if ten go fasts were doing 50 mph, many would guess they were going faster than the smaller boats.

This article is great because it once again shows a couple of things. First, the Marine Patrol agrees with many that there are far more pressing problems to deal with. Secondly, speed limit promoters do not have facts to support their arguments, and many of their claims are contradicted by facts from a variety of sources.

Everyone should just step back and try to review in their minds what really happens on the lake, with no bias. Use you eyes. I think the problem for many is congestion. I've known for over thirty years that if you don't like congested lakes on weekends, you probably wouldn't like Winnipesaukee. There's a ton of boats on the lake, always has been. I might also add this little flyer. The two most vocal proponents of the SL have had their views contradicted by almost every source available.

She really seemed to have no bias when she was asking the questions, and I got the indication that the bulk of the people that she talked to that day were opposers.

Codeman this directly reflects what I was saying in another thread. Contrary what the SL Supporters say the majority of boaters and people on the lake DO NOT support the law. The reporter probably had to dig to find the supporters she found. Even then the individual she interviewed was vague and only regurgitated what she probably heard from supporter propaganda.

She worries whether the lake will be safe enough for her daughters, now 2 and 4, to learn to drive someday.
"It's just become crazy over the years," she said.

Again the "safe" word. This law is not nor has ever been about safety. The supporters will try to tell you that it is but they know the truth. Read further and you can see exactly what I mean as the interviewee states:

Wieser said she thinks the speed limit has been a deterrent for the fast "offensive" boats.
"They have to think about it twice before bombing down the lake," she said.

Offensive boats! :laugh: Stereotypical nonsense. I don't blame the interviewee for this response she has been falsely lulled into the thought that the SL will make the lake safer. She also has probably heard the rhetoric from the supporters side as they make no attempt to disguise their contempt for a particular brand of boat.

In another thread I challenged people to o out and casually engage acquaintances, strangers, waiters, waitresses, gas dock attendants, etc. in conversation about the SL. They will roll their eyes and laugh at the law. Try it for yourself. I've been doing it all summer and I swear I have not come across one supporter. I never reveal my opinion. I mostly just asked the question if they knew if it was a law or knew anything about it.

Here's one of the two comments posted online after that article appeared..........

I witnessed that first hand last weekend! I was at the Meredith public docks, near the end of one finger. On the other side of the dock is what appeared to be a small cuddy cruiser with perhaps 6-8 people on board enjoying munchies and sodas; in front of them on their side of the dock was a Baja 30 Outlaw. My wife and I had chatted with the couple on the 30 Outlaw for a few minutes, they seemed nice enough. They fired up their twin engines and pulled away from the dock. Once they were 100ft or so away from the dock, I could hear one of the guys on the cuddy cruiser comment to his friends, "Well, I wasn't impressed; were you?" and more comments ensued about how "offensive" the Baja was, apparently just because it has thru-hull exhaust!! :eek:

Some people have alot of nerve!! :mad:

The other thing that bothers me about this whole speed limit debate is how these supporters don't "feel safe" if a boat is 1000' away doing 65mph but they have no problem travelling 65mph or more on the interstate with cars around them less than 8ft away!! What exactly is the difference?? Are people in cars less likely to have accidents?? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!! :eek: If we were to follow the Winnfabs and other SL supporters way of thinking, the speed limit on the interstate should be down around 35mph by now what with all the congestion on the interstate these days!! :eek: :eek:

There are more boneheads on the road than there are on the lake, we just don't call them captain!! :laugh:

Maybe they found it irritatingly loud. I really enjoy seeing well-made boats, and most fast boats are very nicely built, but I find loud exhaust irritating. Was it louder than underwater exhaust? If so, perhaps it was simply the noise that bothered them, not the brand or style.

[QUOTE=Wolfeboro_Baja;107585]I witnessed that first hand last weekend! I was at the Meredith public docks, near the end of one finger. On the other side of the dock is what appeared to be a small cuddy cruiser with perhaps 6-8 people on board enjoying munchies and sodas; in front of them on their side of the dock was a Baja 30 Outlaw. My wife and I had chatted with the couple on the 30 Outlaw for a few minutes, they seemed nice enough. They fired up their twin engines and pulled away from the dock. Once they were 100ft or so away from the dock, I could hear one of the guys on the cuddy cruiser comment to his friends, "Well, I wasn't impressed; were you?" and more comments ensued about how "offensive" the Baja was, apparently just because it has thru-hull exhaust!! :eek:[QUOTE]


Jealousy that is all that comment was...I used to say crap like that too, when I enjoyed the lake in my small cuddy, before I could afford my Baja ;)!!

I spent some time at the Meredith docks this Saturday and there were quite a few Performance Boats out and about. I also had probably 10 pics taken of my boat and numerous comments on its looks.

Then my wife and I hit the broads and traumitized a few folks I am sure :D

All kidding aside..I agree that could have been the reason. I enjoy the sound of a thru hull exhaust, just like the sound of my Harley..some people enjoy the sweet sound of horsepower and others dont...

But to be honest if the Baja was leaving the dock and was in Meredith in the no wake area, the engines were merely idling so it could not have been that loud.

Also many of the new boats like mine get quieter the faster you go(there is an electric valve that automatically switches the exhaust to thru prop based on engine rpm), so when I am wide open at 45mph :D my exhaust is underwater and quiet.

I'm sure it was the noise, after all, it was a 30 Outlaw with twin engines (and thru-hull exhaust) so twice as much noise. I also believe the comment was made for my benefit too since I was sitting across the dock from him in my 25 Outlaw (too bad, only 1 engine!).

I understand what you're getting at but my point is there was no reason to make the sarcastic comment he made! All the guy did was fire up and drive off!! I presume the 30 Outlaw was legal as far as exhaust noise goes, the same as mine (I have not altered the factory exhaust on my boat since I bought it new in 2004). And he wasn't complaining about how loud the boat was; I could understand that if his comment were about the sound level. I realize not everyone likes the sound of horsepower like I do (and also onlywinni and a few others on this forum). He was just being sarcastic; to me, he acted like he owned the whole damn lake and that's what irritated me!!

Many people have to be irritated about something or other. If obnoxious, sure, why not make a crack? I even snickered once at the dock when I saw this guy getting out of his go fast looking like a cross between Don Johnson and Reggie Fountain (YIKES) :eek:

But in jest, and kidding, no prejudice, all in fun.

Something like that I'd not have even mentioned. Frankly, I think someone's a bit too touchy? :laugh:

Now THERE'S a mental image I could've done without!!! :eek: :eek:


I presume you're referring to me...and yes, on this subject, I do get a little agitated. It comes from following the speed limit debate on this forum and listening/reading all the smoke being blown up our collective butts by the SL supporters. I'm tired of listening to all the lies and then having to listen to that clown on the dock! :look:

From one Baja Lover to another.....Try and let it go..

Save your fight/words for Concord if new legislation is filed.

Trying to debate this issue with the hardcore SL supporters is a waste of time in my opinion-I tried and wanted to throw my laptop out the window like 20 times!!!....now I just let them talk there nonsense how quiet and peaceful the lake is and no one ever exceeds 45mph.....

The Performance Boat Haters are out there in small numbers, dont let them bother you...I think back when I was a kid...I think it was Winnie the Pooh :D

If you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all

The guy on the dock, wanted to be a big shot to his guests on board and try and make up for the fact he had a little tiny boat that could not compare...

Just ignore the haters I say and Happy Boating!!!!

onlywinni, I understand what you and VtSteve are saying, I just needed to vent! Thanks to all for the opportunity! :)

Nothing personal, I do understand your frustration. Bear in mind, there are a lot of Type AAAAAAA personalities that precede you in GF boats, so you have to take responsibility for their bad habits.

I know, nobody else in anything else has to (other than PWC's) :laugh:

It only takes a few to ruin it, before the none of this and none of that crowd takes over. It's happened all over the country. Lake George is a graveyard of what once was a proud and free lake. The EC and TB people took it over. And no, I'm not condoning jerky behavior either.

There has to be a happy medium. You need to win over that boorish crowd on the docks.

Welch Island In The Middle of The Problem...
 

Five items stand out in this article—starting with Welch Island.

1) .Welch Islander Kelly Wieser says, "...she worries whether the lake will be safe enough for her daughters, now 2 and 4, to learn to drive someday..."It's just become crazy over the years," she said...the speed limit has been a deterrent for the fast "offensive" boats..."

....Welch Islander Ron Mory of Marlboro, Mass, is quoted in The Union Leader as saying "...large, high speed boats have created a “fear factor” on the lake that ruins the boating experience for practically everyone."

....Welch Island—I've observed for the first time this year myself—is definitely in the middle of the mayhem.

....Welch Islanders live in the gunsights of "the usual offenders" speeding towards Braun Bay!

....Welch Islanders—those long-suffering Welch Islanders: I may need to stop complaining! :rolleye2:

"The problem" may be worse to the north of Welch Island than from what I am seeing here to the south of Welch Island . :(

2) Yup. To drive home their point about how safe they are, the Opposers need to make still more friends in the NH Legislature by complaining about every other kind of boater. :rolleye1:

3) The Marine Patrol has six radar guns, and uses them on "a" dock? :confused:

I know "a dock" where they can record the usual offenders— every weekend! :rolleye2: The usual offenders exit the Broads after "a comfortable ride on a 'wild and windy' Broads"—then it's WOT in the Bay!!! :eek2:

4) :confused: One WinnFABS principal wrote me in June, http://www.rv.net/SharedContent/cfb/...scratchead.gif

5) My own perception was such, I wrote a letter to the Granite State News editor titled, "Lake Winnipesaukee is Anarchy".

My "Anarchy" letter was published just three days before the first instance where these "offensive boats" produced Lake Winnipesaukee's second-most tragic collision headline since 1980. :(

.
.
.

Offensive boats
 

I knew it. They are targeting the big cruisers next. :rolleye2:

What happen in 1980?

The most tragic collision since 1980 was an impaired boater that ran into and on top of another at a speed generally accepted by the MP and the Court to be 28 mph? That's the worst? You've been ranting and raving about that one for how long APS?

What's been interesting in this summer's debate is that even the MP has become the enemy of the staunch supporters of the SL. APS scratches his head in amazement as boaters are not ticketed by speed traps in front of his abode. Uh oh, didn't everyone say the chaos and anarchy has ended?

Most people fall somewhere in the middle of this entire argument. There are those that think 45 mph is Reaaaaaaly fast in a boat, and those that want to rampage all over doing whatever. I might add, I don't know any of the latter, but there are some.

My opinion after all of these debates has finally come to this.

1) I want the MP to focus on serious infractions and drunks.

2) I would like them to then focus on being helpful and informative, and generally just do some effective PR work.

3) I never, ever, ever want people like APS, Jack Weeks, and the likes of El Chase to have any control over any public resource or waterway.


Now let's see what next year brings. This season is over :(

Protecting A Public Resource From...?
 

1) Although we've learned of a triple-fatality into a Gilford cottage and a Parker Island tragedy, there appears to be a "knowledge-gap" of Winnipesaukee collisions between 1980-2001. It's the Internet that has assisted our collective knowledge since 2001. (Not so much the NHMP).

2) While 28-MPH is "generally accepted", I'll accept a genuine reconstruction of that night's collision—not what "somebody-testifies-to-what-somebody-said".

3) Some can say that both "drivers" were comfortable with high speed; moreover, both were closely involved in the speed-boat business! What is the "comfort level" of the even less experienced who would boat at high speed?

4) But that collision was the 2nd-worst since 2001. At whatever speed the collision occurred—it was a stranger that was killed—and not the skipper's own friend. :(

The fear of chaos and anarchy has been reduced, but it shouldn't come as a result of visitors staying away—or the purchase of still-bigger boats by everybody else. While we still have the occasional "naive" boater, we still more often have the occasional speeding offender.

Many offenders, I've noticed, are gray-haired "drivers". Maybe the MPs are lax in enforcing the boater-certification requirement :confused: which should now apply to the most-senior of our boaters?

Speaking for myself, I've followed the practice of that WinnFABS writer to not advise the MPs of the offenders who visit my area. As to "control", I'm a "non-voting taxpayer".

As stated by both sides in this debate—your worst enemy isn't the voter—it's the offenders among your own number who visit Lake Winnipesaukee. :rolleye1:

What triple-fatality into a Gilford cottage and what Parker Island tragedy are you talking about? I am not familiar with either.

I see where a fellow named "John Weeks" made quite an impression around the Legislative Office Building yesterday. Anyone know any details of his dealings there? Why has he been asked to speak to several committee chairpersons? About what?

3, 2, 1,...

From Webster's Dictionary:

Main Entry: 1troll
Pronunciation: \ˈtrōl\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, probably from Anglo-French *troiller, *troller; akin to Anglo-French troil, trolle winch
Date: 15th century
transitive verb
1 : to cause to move round and round : roll
2 a : to sing the parts of (as a round or catch) in succession b : to sing loudly c : to celebrate in song
3 a : to fish for by trolling b : to fish by trolling in <troll lakes> c : to pull through the water in trolling <troll a lure> d : to search in or at <trolls flea markets for bargains>; also : prowl <troll nightclubs>
intransitive verb
1 : to move around : ramble
2 a : to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat b : search, look <trolling for sponsors>; also : prowl
3 : to sing or play in a jovial manner
4 : to speak rapidly

—noun
1 : elchase

how many times this revolving door going to come around?

Farve did well last night! :D

-noun
2 : anyone else on this forum who could possibly question the GFBL ideology that speed limits are of no value and are "un-American".

I think you are going for a sarcastic or humorous remark. As stated in the past I have no issues with you, bear islander, even APS.. Some of the most powerful SL supporters on here who trumpet your cause very well.

Then there are those who don't.

But if it was meant to be a funny remark.. I did laugh..

Sunset on the Dock
 

Is there a better synonym for American than freedom?

Main Entry: free·dom
Pronunciation: frē-dom
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous <freedom from care> d : ease, facility <spoke the language with freedom> e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken <answered with freedom> f : improper familiarity g : boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use <gave him the freedom of their home>
2 a : a political right b : franchise, privilege

synonyms freedom, liberty, license mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. freedom has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated <freedom of the press>. liberty suggests release from former restraint or compulsion <the released prisoner had difficulty adjusting to his new liberty>. license implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom <freedom without responsibility may degenerate into license>.

Be an interesting discussion to hear
 

This is how a proper committee hearing should proceed.


So Mr. Weeks, we have your letter in front of us, and we've been discussing it amongst ourselves. We notice that your comments about the lake this year, in regards to boating traffic and weather, contrast significantly from not only our own experiences this year, but from virtually everybody's. Where were you this summer that there was so much good boating weather?

Also, could you please elaborate on the multitude of boating accidents? Our committee knows about several tragic deaths that occurred early this season, but we weren't aware that this was the first summer without a High-Speed tragedy. In fact, looking through the records, we couldn't come up with a single high-speed tragedy on the lake. We are aware of two tragedies that occurred on the lake, and we have a representative from the Marine Patrol here today to review the case facts with us.

We assume you have a list to support your claims, can we see it please?
______________________________

This is how politics works sometimes

Hi Jack, how are you? Oh yeah, we know about timing, don't worry about that. We were thinking of burying something in with another law in January, when those gosh darn out of state boaters weren't looking.

Jack, don't worry about those idiots that keep taking about enforcement and safety, we have your back covered. Remember, we want those boats and others off the lake as well. These things take time, and have to be handled carefully. If people thought we passed laws to discriminate against people we don't like, all heck would break loose.

1:h is the one that got my attention. Winnipesaukee wouldn't be the first of America's great and beautiful natural resources to be despoiled by unrestricted use.

FYI, Lake Winnipesaukee has many restrictions on it's use, not unrestricted as you implied.

Brilliant!
 

Since you observed "John Weeks" around the legislative office building, what is your business????????

You are right there...and I am grateful for said restrictions. Unrestricted use (see above definition of freedom) of the lake would be a bad thing.

I agree that pumping raw sewage or dumping trash are good restrictions! I am not convinced the SL has any value based on all the collected data to date!!!!!!

Sunny,

I brought up "Un-American". However, you folks continue to twist the words.

It is not Un-American to have an opinion or a question. It is completely Un-American to deliberately mislead the public to gain a political advantage that has resulted in a law that restricts the use of a public resource by certain group of people.

It is Un-American in my opinion to use mis-truths and other misleading statements, that the pro-speed-limit folks have used and continue to use in this debate, that have given good people with little or no knowledge of the real situation the completely wrong view of what is the real situation on Lake Winnipesaukee.

For that, those using these tactics should be ashamed!

If any of the pro-SL minority actually cared about real safety on the lake, your efforts would be better spent supporting boater education and responsible boating by all. All you want to do is to restrict performance boats from the lake in this round, then it is on to restricting cruisers. You must think the rest of us are completely stupid not to see this.

R2B

Have patience. You'll see soon enough.

Speaking of Bret Favre, Did you guys see the way he played last night? I bet the Vikings are glad that the Packers were not able to convince him to retire. I heard he got so upset when they told him he was washed up that he decided to stick around a few more years. Now look at the way he throttled the very team that has dissed him. It was like watching a man versus a bunch of little boys. What sweet revenge that must have been.
Got to go. Underdog is on Nickelodeon in a bit. That theme song is so catchy. And his uniform is so cute.

PS: You guys all forgot to do "Thank You" on one of Kracken's posts above.

Bret Farve brings a lot of excitement and the fans of the Vikings are currently very happy to have him. Unfortunately for them it is highly unlikely he will be able to maintain his performance over such a long and grueling season. Recent history has proven that any success he has had is short lived due to his gunslinger mentality. His techniques have become flawed and over time he will always overplay his hand.

I think there is a learning moment in there somewhere.

As for Mr. Weeks we can all make an educated guess what he is up to. It’s a funny thing though, if he is speaking for the majority and doing the right thing. Why all the secrecy?

And why the: I'm leaving, I'm Back, I'm Leaving, I'm back? Just wondering? No one ever asked you to leave in the first place. You did that on your own accord. So just wondering why the constant change of heart?

I think he has taken a shine to you OCD!!! :laugh:

LOL.. the only shine he can have is to shine my boat called OCD.. But I am kind of particular so that may not even work out... :laugh:

I found out why he was there, nothing to worry about. :D