more expert testimony on SB-27
 

SB-27 would undermine commonsense speed limits on big lake

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...985/-1/CITNEWS

Anglers in the Broads? Yeah that's where they all shoot too during the fishing derby's isn't it? :laugh:

So a SL would have prevented the Blizzard collision? :laugh:

I'm glad to see the SL supporters are worried. Maybe I should ask to be a part of the WinnFabs team so I can toy with them:liplick:

Why do I keep seeing this being said? What substantiates this claim?

Nothing.
 

Nothing substantiates this claim whatsoever. Just the liberal, self serving, selfish agenda of WinnFabs. Screw everyone else under the phony guise of "safety". Compromise? Hell no. They want it all, their way - period. The broads are for sailboats and kayaks...not powerboats.

Anyway, my signature says it all: :fire:

Experts?
 

Who are the experts? Names please?

I think this might be a bit of sarcasm

Someone care to refresh my memory. What was the testified speed of the Blizzard accident?

I don't know about her speed as testified in her court trial, but this quote came from the Concord Monitor article, "Brakes On Boat Speed Limits" dated 12/2/2010;

I would think that Mr. Thurston would know a little bit about how Lake Winnipesaukee has changed since the 45/30 speed limit became law.

This well written article is on page 4 of today's LDS:

Something had to change on big lake & speed limit did the trick
To the editor,
An open letter to New Hampshire
citizens:
My name is Jeffrey Thurston. My family and I have operated a marina and boat dealership on Lake Winnipesaukee for the last 39 years. During that time we all have seen boating take on different dimensions in the number, size, and speed at which boats and personal watercraft are operating. Prior to the implementation of the current lakewide 45/30 boating speed limits, it had been “uncomfortable” for many of the people I deal with as customers to go out on Lake Winnipesaukee.
Someone and something had to change, and that change this past season has been widely noted as the best thing to happen to family boating in a long time.
As many of you know, Winnipesaukee is comprised of more than 14 bays and over 250 islands. It is not one large bowl of water. It is up to the state to view the lake as a shared resource with emphasis on sustainability and the maximum diversity of users. The state’s own figures show there are more boats on the water today than in the past. As the density increases, it is difficult to imagine that unlimited speed could be tolerated, as long as boats stay an arbitrary 150-ft. apart.
With large off-shore type boats capable of speeds well in excess of 70 mph, 250+hp personal watercraft only 11ft. long, and low-profile fishing boats with 250+hp engines, how can anyone argue with the need to put a cap on how fast an individual boater can operate in the presence of others? This is particularly true when you consider how difficult it is to see some of these smaller PWC and boat types approaching. The argument becomes even more indefensible at night.
In all cases, the important sense of well-being for passengers on a boat subjected to others operating in such a manner is removed. Boat owners complained that the lake had lost its’ “FUN” feel when you were constantly wondering where and when something might come flying out at you and your family. Is that the legacy New Hampshire wants for their best known lake? I certainly hope not, and I’m confident that a large majority of the public agrees.
This law worked well in New Hampshire these past seasons, as it has in many other states for years. This speed limits law will not stop ANYONE from boating, but will instill and reinforce a sense of what is proper behavior on the state’s most important waterway. Only the Legislature can preserve this reality, and we are counting on them to keep sustainable use of Lake Winnipesaukee a treasured achievement. Support the current boating 45/30 speed limits law without any changes by contacting your Senator and Representatives to vote down SB-27.
Jeffrey Thurston, President
Thurston’s Marina
Weirs Beach

A couple of problems I have with this letter written by Mr thurston if the lake is so congested that its hard to imagine not violating the 150 foot rule than existing laws say headway speed is he saying that its ok to be closer as long as you are under the 45 mph speed limit....... 150 feet is the same distance @ any speed ...... people where scared because people like him where telling them to be scared .... also isn't that the same thustons that have been renting boats to i would imagine very many inexperienced skippers , I am sure some know what there doing , that I have seen doing far more dangerous things than a boat by itself going 80 thru the broads . Like his its jmo.......... fire away

Other than getting his name right and the fact that he owns a marina, I dont see another fact in his poorly written letter.

I have read your post ten times and I still don’t understand any of it. :confused: Is there a question or statement that you made that pertains to Mr. Thurston’s article?

Maybe it might help me understand what you are trying to say if you quoted Mr. Thurston’s exact comment/s, and then after that write your rebuttal.

Also if you a problem with the way Mr. Thurston runs his business (I think that’s what you’re saying…not sure though) could you please have some facts to back that up.

jeffrey;
you say the law is working . Well here it goes . Is it bring you more business so people can rent your boats and you can make more.
Then the law is just for you. To get people that don't know how to drive a boat. What i mean is on summer day i was going down the channel and a boat you rented to sum expert cut across both lanes and smashed in wall across from your docks.
What a treasured achievement is how n.h. Went about how to get driver lic.to the day renter...

It may not stop anyone from boating, BUT.......

........I don't believe violation of the 150 ft rule, cutting off other boaters and speeding through NWZ's at speeds above no wake speed are "proper behavior" on the lake! So in that sense, a defined speed limit does nothing. :mad:

You are right Wolfeboro_Baja and I'm glad that you said that because IMHO that is what the SBONH members should be working on to make our beautiful Lake safer.

We need to get the violators educated about what you mentioned....and what better way to do that then getting the SBONH to do just that.

The speed limit law has taken care of one problem, now we all need to get involved and fix what you stated.

Thank you for bringing that up! :)

We have been yelling and screaming about this since the very beginning of the speed limit debate and all we heard back from the SL supporters was the speed limit would fix EVERYTHING and once again, the supporters are saying it didn't!! Wow, there's a surprise!

The speed limit law was just a law looking for a problem to fix and apparently it didn't fix anything! Wow, another surprise.... :mad:

You got the point you just don't want to admit it I gave an opinion just as he did all opinion no facts given in either case......... I have no problem with atone or the way they run their business just a little issue with the hypocrisy

People feel this way on both sides. I personally feel that the general public was sold on the idea of the 45MPH limit making the lake safer in general.

It only "fixes" one issue. It was just the easiest way to pass a new regulatory law on the lake because it is so cut and dry.

The accidents that occur would be avoided if the other rules/laws were enforced and obeyed.

The SL doesnt help with the 150ft rule, it doesnt help with right of way, safe passage, BWI, being courteous of your wake, and just proper education. It was the EASY way out. "Dont go over 45mph" everyone can understand that rule, its black and white and you dont need to think. It's simply an example of the government making a regulation rather than having people think for themselves.

From what I gather, most of the Anti SL crowd simply feel that an unjust regulation was slapped into place without fully asessing what the situation was.

I saw Pro-SL supporters walking around and getting signatures from people in Portsmouth, NH. Most of the people probably never even have been on the lake, own or operate a boat (power or not) They were getting signatures from college kids and people who had NO IDEA what the real issues were.

That is what I have issue with. My boat goes 41MPH on GPS at maximum speed and probably never will own a "go fast" type of boat.

Everyone seems to long for the days of yesteryears when people were more respectful and courteous. With so many regulations being in place nobody had to learn courtesy and respect, they just follow the law or they dont. You can't impose laws and have the result be more courteous people.

Sorry for the ramble, i am in a rush to get out of work and enjoy a weekend of shoveling my roof. Good weekend to pro and anti SL folks alike!!

For someone who is in a rush that was very well written. :)

The speed limit law was never intended to fix all the problems on the Lake. It was put in place so that “large off-shore type boats capable of speeds well in excess of 70 mph, 250+hp personal watercraft only 11ft. long, and low-profile fishing boats with 250+hp engines” do not make it unsafe for people like you and I who only want to have fun and enjoy everything that the Lake has to offer. It serves no other purpose than that.

That being said. I have friends running around in hydrostreams, apaches and allisons which are certainly capable of running well over the speed limit. Some of them at triple digit speeds.

I don't think it is fair to limit this group of boaters, it is their absolute lifestyle to wrench on and run these types of boats. I thorougly enjoy having my rear end planted on the floor of a 19 foot boat that is running 90+ mph. These boats are NOT ocean boats, they are lake and river boats doing what they were built to do. It is possible to operate a fast boat safely without putting OTHER PEOPLE in danger. I am more afraid of captain bonehead at 45mph than one of these guys at 75mph.

Go fast, hurt yourself, dont hurt other people. That's where education comes into play and understanding boundaries.

I hope your friends have found a body of water that will allow them to go as fast as they want......however on Lake Winnipesaukee they will have to obey the speed limit of 45/30.

If you don't mind me asking, where do your friends go now to go triple digit speeds?

Thurston's renters
 

I find the renters more scary than those who drives fast boats. I seen too many of them traveling the Weirs Channel NWZ at above no wake speed. One year a pontoon boat pulled right out of Thurston directly in front of a cruiser. The cruiser had to steer in front of me to avoid the renter. I put my craft into reverse and hit the rocks damaging a $600 SS prop. Several boaters pulled into Thurstons to complain. I guess this has happened before as Thurston already called the police and the MP. He was sitting behind his desk chuckling when the police told us to file a report and leave.

This is why I am strongly against temporary permits. I actually saw one guy fill out the test. The rental agent told him the answers. Not fair.

I think they should end the temporary permits now. Catering to a local business for short term profits and convenience is no way to manage safety.

Bingo! Another hypocrite profit taker. Well for me this is just another on the list of businesses to boycott (along with Alex Ray's restaurants (Common Man, Camp, Lago, Lake House) and Rusty McLear's establishments (Church Landing, Mill Falls, Inn at Bay Point) ). I'll pay double for gas before I fill up at Thurston's now.

Once again, my signature says it all.... Repeat after me:

It's pathetic all about safety as long as my wallet is not effected

As Jack Nicholson stated in one of his movies, "You Can't handle the truth".:D

I have been paying close attention to SL debate on this forum since day one. I don't remember any SL supporter ever claiming the speed limit would fix EVERYTHING. Nor do I remember them making a claim that was similar to that, or even a claim that was in the ball park of what you suggest.

Can point me to a post where a claim like this was made?

BI,

I don't think you will find that exact quote, but you know that several very vocal SL supporters have hailed the SL as a panacea. APS is now arguing at the forum across the pond that littering (which is currently illegal under NH law) is caused by flying boats. It is his opinion that if the boats were traveling at 44 MPH, then empty food wrappers would not fly out from the boat.

I appreciate your positions and think you articulate them well without over- reaching

Sorry, I know nothing of the kind. The speed limit has most often been called a "tool" that the Marine Patrol can use.

I am unaware speed limits ever been refereed to by supporters as a "panacea" or any word that is even roughly synonymous with panacea. I am not the one over-reaching here.


In any event, you should remember the Governor signed this bill into law only 7 months ago. Do you REALLY think he is going to sign a repeal this soon? Politicians hate the flip-flopper moniker.

Go read the WinnFabs website: http://www.winnfabs.com/

Make sure you read the "Why a SL" link. Seems like your ilk was promoting the SL as the almighty savior of the lake to me;)

Also, the 'Boating' magazine editor did a great editorial this month regarding boating safety. Interestingly, the death rate for being at home is greater than stepping aboard a boat:laugh:

If I had a scanner at home I would post it.

Maybe all the dealers should be banned from selling any boat capable of reaching a speed >45 MPH. Let's see if they will put their wallets where their mouths are.:rolleye1:

Thank you for directing me to the winnfabs website, I haven't been there for a while...it is always refreshing to go there once in a while just to read about how the SL law will (and has) helped the "Lakes Region Economic Health", "Safety", and "Equal Access or Management". ;)


Can you show me where the winnfabs website stated that the “Speed Limit Law” would fix any of the following:

1. Violation of the 150 ft rule.
2. Cutting off other boaters.
3. Speeding through NWZ's at speeds above no wake speed.
4. BUI
5. Being a complete BONEHEAD!
:confused::confused::confused::confused:

just looking for a no bs answer if numbers 1 thru 5 are followed why the need for a speed limit ......... and if people dont follow 1 thru 5 why does anyone think they will follow the speed limit ?

This is my no BS answer for “why the need for a speed limit” even if “numbers 1 thru 5 are followed”:

So that “large off-shore type boats capable of speeds well in excess of 70 mph, 250+hp personal watercraft only 11ft. long, and low-profile fishing boats with 250+hp engines” do not make it unsafe for people like you and I who only want to have fun and enjoy everything that the Lake has to offer.

Some people aren’t following 1 thru 5…BUT….they are following the new “Speed Limit Law” and it will only get better.

Thanks for the questions! :)

thanx for the response .... how does it make it any safer if all the other rules are followed and who says the speed limit is being followed 100 %

David Barrett the head of the Marine Patrol is opposed to the speed limit yet admits it is being followed. He doesn't say it works 100%. After all very few things work 100%. Below are some quotes from Mr. Barrett from a recent interview in the Concord Monitor.

Over the past 10 years, Barrett said, there have been three boating deaths attributed to speed. One of those is the 2008 death of Stephanie Beaudoin of Meredith, who died when a boat piloted by her best friend, Erica Blizzard, crashed into Diamond Island on Lake Winnipesaukee in the dark, early morning hours. State authorities estimate Blizzard was going at least 33 mph.

This year, Barrett said, the Marine Patrol issued eight tickets for speeding on the lake, resulting in court-issued fines in the vicinity of $100.

"That's testimony to the fact that there aren't a lot of people that go that fast," Barrett said.

Go read the powerpoint. It specifically mentioned those items as the reason for the speed limit as a way to "minimize the imacts" of items 1-5. So yes, the WinnFabs ilk were selling this as a catch-all solution.

I'm sure when the 150 ft rule and boater education laws were passed, the same tired arugments were given.

Personally, I think the 150 ft rule should go away as it leads to unrealistic expectations.

Come on BI, there weren't that many boats speeding even BEFORE the SL law was rammed through.

Would you please give me the pages of the power point presentation that references Items 1-5 and how the speed limit will help fix them.

Write it up like this if you would:

1. Violation of the 150 ft rule. Page ?
2. Cutting off other boaters. Page ?
3. Speeding through NWZ's at speeds above no wake speed. Page ?
4. BUI Page ?
5. Being a complete BONEHEAD! Page ?

I can't tie any of these items to the presentation...but hey..sometimes it takes a long time for things to sink in. :)

Wrong again. There were plenty of boats going over 30 mph at night. That is where the speed limits has had the greatest impact.

And for many years I personally went faster than 45 mph just about every day I was at the lake. And that is all summer.



The current law was 6 years in coming and involved many public meetings around the lake area and many legislative debates. That does not meet my definition of "rammed through".

Agreeing to a 2 year study to gather data and then pushing it through a year early is ramming it through IMO.

I'm still waiting for you and other SL supporters to present objective data showing benefits of the speed limit.

Here's a a little tidbit. There are hyrdologic studies that demonstrate slow speeds through shallower depths increase the amount of sediment that is kicked up from the bottom.