WOW Trail Phase 3 Heating up...
 

Looks like a battle is looming for Phase 3 of the WOW trail... Seems like battling in court would be a waste of time and money for the Southdown folks as the rail property is state owned and Southdown was sold to the City with the premise of a Rail Trail. Doesn't sound like a win to me...

Perhaps they would be better served taking that war chest of $$ they raised to fight the trail, and use it to make the trail design acceptable as it runs through Southdown.

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...32-wow-boycott

Woodsy

Actually boycotting businesses for a purpose like this can be quite effective and is done a lot. That said, these types of trails always have detractors but usually end up very well done and become great assets to communities and abutters. If you don't want to be near something like this then do your homework and don't move near right of ways.

WOW Trail
 

I grew up in Laconia and now live in SD/LB. Even though I now live in SD/LB, I wouldn't want any more federal or state money be "invested" in the WOW trail. Let's be real, I drive by the WOW trail several times a day, and hardly ever see anyone on it. And if you read the police blotter, the WOW trail appears to be a popular place to buy drugs and to commit robberies. Couple that with the fact that it is inaccessible 5 or 6 months of the year make it a complete waste of money. Laconia should do what it has done best over the past decade, invest in Section 8 housing so we can attract the type of people it wants as residents. I heard/read somewhere that SD/LB generates $32M in tax revenue. What the heck, Laconia can just make us pay more.

Section Eight housing is far worst than the WOW trail. Just take a look at the police blotter on 'The Project' on Blueberry Lane. 24/7! The weasels can walk through the woods and rob our homes on Wildwood shores. A couple of years ago residents complained of strong odors from the woods and it took police months to finally check it out! The found a big meth lab in the woods!
WOW trail is on the other side of the lake. Not sure where you got the idea that the WOW trail attract drugs.

When a business sponsors the development of something the money comes from the people who do business with them.


I don't think they're very serious about boycotting the O Steak and Seafood. I see a lot of South Down Shores people in there when we dine there.

Seems to me that those millions could be put to better use than a seasonal walking trail. Phase one of the trail seems to be used very little except during perfect weather.

If the "M" is the standard abbreviation for "millia," Latin for thousand, then $32M would be barely anything. If the intent was to say $32 million, then I have to suspect what was "heard." Talking round numbers, if each property paid ten thousand per year in property tax, there would have to be 3200 properties so taxed for SD/LB to generate that much collectively. Whatever the total take is, how does the total tax take from SD/LB figure into the argument for or against the proposal?

WOW Trail
 

Two seconds of research yielded this --

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england...377055721.html

It is common practice to use "M" for million. Notwithstanding, you are correct, I was off by a factor of ten. See below, which is taken from an article about John Davidson --

Both communities now have over 600 property owners from many geographic areas who can call the Lakes Region “home”. Many are vacation home owners & semi-retirees and others are year round, permanent residents. Davidson’s ‘vision’ and hard work paid off immensely for the City of Laconia. Today both communities are valued over $114,000,000 by the assessor’s office and they contribute over $3.2 million annually to the City of Laconia’s tax revenue. That’s a lot of income which has helped the city construct a new police station, fire department, schools, parks and other amenities. Not only that but think of the economic impact these 600+ families have contributed to the Lakes Region. Many businesses have prospered because of these communities including general contractors, landscapers, lumber yards, furniture stores, boat, car & golf cart dealers, restaurants and even us REALTORS®…

Still, $3.2 million is nothing to sneeze at.

The point is . . .
 

My point is that the City has a spending problem, and looks to SD/LB as an important source of revenue to fund their "investments." In eight short years, my taxes have gone from $8K to $12.7K annually. Even with the tax cap, the City has a way of sticking it to the SD/LB residents.

Major...

I do agree with Laconia needing to look at Municipal Spending.... In 2009 the tax rate was $16.97 per thousand/assessed value. In 2017 the rate is $22.20 per thousand/assessed value. The tax rate has gone up $5.23 over 8 years or approx. .65/per thousand/per year.

However... SD/LB doesn't pay any more than any other property in Laconia when it comes to funding the city's projects! I pay the same $22.20 per thousand you do!

Woodsy

When I was looking for property I stayed away from Laconia for that reason. I bought in Meredith and my taxes are reasonable.

Taxes
 

How do you explain our tax increase of 59% in eight years when Laconia's tax rate went up 31%? I'll tell you why, they assess properties at SD/LB at a higher rate. The planning board and city counsel view SD/LB as a cash cow, and don't face any ramifications since most of its residents are not Laconia residents.

No..... they do not assess SD/LB at a higher rate! Your property increased in value... The increase in value of the property, coupled with the increase in the tax rate gives you your 59%...

Go on the MLS and look.... the cheapest property for sale in SD/LB is a 1200 sq/ft condo for $235K. Not counting lots for sale.. I counted 12 properties that when averaged out (including the $235K property) equaled an average price of $436K... There are only 2 properties listed under $300K!

So while I am happy for you that you got in a good price... I don't feel bad for you or anyone else when your property increases in value!

Woodsy

Taxes
 

Respectfully disagree. Built the house in 2008, so there wasn't any past history to draw from. The first year of full assessment, 2009, our taxes were $8,000. Given the real estate market at that time, our assessments and taxes should have gone down. Instead, they systematically went up.

I grew up here, and I have friends and family who own homes throughout Laconia. Our home and my neighbors' homes in SD/LB are assessed close to what we might be able to sell them for. I follow Vision Appraisal, and from what I can tell, family and friends outside of SD/LB are assessed 70-75% of sale values. I can provide you many examples.

I get your point, but I think they have their thumb on the scale with respect to SD/LB. Just my opinion.

Major...

The math is pretty simple....

In 2009 Laconia's tax rate was $16.97 per thousand assessed. So If you paid $8000 in taxes in 2009 your house was valued at approx. $471,500.
$8000/$16.97 = $471,420

In 2017 Laconia's tax rate is $22.20 per thousand assessed. So if your house value didn't change...
471.42 x 22.20 = $10,465.52 tax bill (31% increase)

So if your taxes have gone up 59% ($8000 x .59 = $4720) they jumped from $8000 to $12,720. So the difference lies in your appraised value.
$12,720/22.20 = $572,972 tax assessed value.... 21.5% increase in home value over the 8 years.

If you think you are being unfairly assessed, you should definitely appeal to the town... (I certainly would) My guess is with median average for sale in Southdown being $436K, you probably aren't going to win. Southdown/Long Bay is a victim of its own success.

PS... My condo in the Weirs is assessed at 90% value. Per the state laws.

Woodsy

As I always say to folks....
 

that moves to Laconia and complain, there are plenty of estate to move elsewhere!

Laconia was here long before SD/LB. So don't go telling Laconia what they can or can not do!

Sd/lb
 

Last time I checked, I am a resident of Laconia and have the same right as other residents to express my displeasure about City money going towards the WOW trail. Make no mistake, even if Federal and State (and private) monies are provided to construct the trail, Laconia will be obligated to pay for its maintenance.

My hope is that the WOW trail proponents take SD/LB's offer to re-route the WOW trail around the periphery of the development. Otherwise, it appears that the WOW trail will be wasting a lot of its capital in fighting the issue in court.

Why should they re-route the trail around a development that was sold to the city with the rail trail as part of the plan?

The state owns the right of way.... Not SD/LB.

Why not work with the WOW trail to pick out a nice fencing option?

Woodsy

The incentive for the proponents of the WOW trail to work with SD/LB is to avoid costly litigation. Who is right or wrong really has little impact on how disputes are resolved. (Things like monetary resources, stomach for litigation, etc., have as much influence on litigation results.) The proponents on the WOW trail can spend a lot of their capital on litigation to prove that it has the right of way, or instead work with the residents of SD/LB to re-route the trail. We'll see what happens. At the end of the day, whether the trail is built or not won't have a lot impact on my life. I just think it's a colossal waste of money.

Sounds to me that you are saying that "Might makes right". Even if the WOW trail advocates are correct in that they have the proper clearance rights to build the trail, you are hoping to hit them with enough legal entanglements (costs) to stop them. Sounds like trail opponents are willing to expend a "colossal waste of money" to get their way, even if they are not in the right.

This is where the law gets frustrating to me. If the SD properties were sold with a ROW--and ESPECIALLY if with the rail trail plans included--there shouldn't even be legal proceedings. If, on the other hand, the ROW was not disclosed, that's an issue.

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Jeff, unfortunately, that's how litigation works. It may be a colossal waste of money for the SD/LB owners, but spread across 600 units, the cost isn't that much. If the goal is to have a trail that people can enjoy, why can't the WOW trail folks consider re-routing the trail? It seems like a win-win.

Thinking, I'm not sure when the rail trail was first proposed. The first units in SD/LB were built around 1985.

Anyway, I don't see much upside in debating the issue. I think we will all have to wait and see how it plays out. Either way, it won't be the end of the world if it's built or if it's not built. That said, I don't see either side giving in.

While I agree that it's an issue, it would seem to me that the issue the SD folks have could be with the people who sold them the property. However, it appears that the ROW is on State Owned land, not on the actual property purchased? This is a classic problem. You buy a property looking forward to a quiet neighborhood and then you find out the abutting property is zoned commercial and they are about to build a new Rite Aid store. Bye bye quiet neighborhood. The reality is, buyer beware. It's up to you to dig into the area you are moving into. Maybe there is a toxic waste site a block away? The seller isn't required to tell you about problems in the surrounding area?

The typical action to getting caught out with unexpected problems is legal action. You may not have a leg to stand on but it doesn't mean you can't create a legal blizzard, especially if you band together with others who share your interest.

And, I can truly share the SD folks concern. I owned a property along the Merrimack in Hudson, NH. The deed provided a ROW for a walking path if the town ever got around to building it. I accepted the reality of it and decided if they did build it, I would push for a barrier (bushes?) to be constructed as well to provide a bit of separation from my property. It never came to pass but the possibility was there.

The original plans for SD way back in the 80's had the rail trail in the plans.... Now its coming to fruition and SD/LB is taking a NIMBY approach... Not too cool in my book but whatever, like Major said bury them with lawyers!

That being said.... it go really bad for SD/LB.

1st... any lawsuit could be rejected by a judge because of the state owned ROW and it was included in original plans... SD/LB ends up spending a bunch of money for nothing and may have to pay the WOW lawyers.

2nd.... Nuclear option... State plays hardball and doesn't renew lease to cross Railroad ROW... yup SD/LB lease that land. SD/LB loses water access, and loses a bunch of property value and $$$ spent. (The state is under no legal obligation to renew any lease for any reason)

IMHO, SD/LB should take the money they are going to use to fight the WOW trail and instead use it to make the WOW trail more acceptable to them (fence design, trail materials, shrubbery, landscaping etc)

Woodsy

I live on a 4 acre wooded lot. I love it because it is so private. Our neighbor's are having 40 trees cut down on their lot. They can cut right up to our property line. So much for privacy!!! People move to the country from the suburbs and they still want the suburbs.

Neighborhoods would really be great if it weren't for the neighbors! :D

What a disgusting group of "residents" at SD/LB.

If privacy was an issue, why on earth would you build/buy in a community such as SD/LB? It's not like they are building a highway around your home. It is a bike path/walking trail.

Instead of wasting money on litigation, BUILD A WALL. 30 feet high made of concrete should suffice!

A review of the plan (Plan Book 141 Page 19) shows that SD does not own the land that the RR tracks are on and that it is owned by the State. The State has owned that land longer than SD has been in existence or even a dream. The SD plan would not show a proposed rail trail as it is not part of or on their property. Good luck fighting this - I think you will be donating your money to a very smart and savy attorney who will gladly take it off your hands, as much as you wish to waste.

In a few years, you'll want to sell your property and the Realtor listing will brag that you are adjacent to the WOW trail.

As a separate issue if you think SD is over assessed, hire a professional to dispute the assessments. Businesses do this all the time, especially when there is no locally comparable business. There are professionals who do this on a commission basis.
You could also look at other tax rates around the state and realize that $22-23 may not be out of line for comparable cities/towns.

Two points.

Phase 1 was paid for (100%?) by ARRA funding. Phase 2 had a substantial amount of TIF money ($400K+) dedicated to the revitalization of downtown Laconia, so that money did not come from the tax revenues as a whole, but from a special assessment paid by downtown properties. A significant amount of the funding for the WOW trail has come from private donations. Certainly the City has agreed to maintain the trail as a linear park. I'm not sure when Major has viewed the trail, but it is used considerably, by all kinds of people.

Second point. I have recently been on the Shining Sea Trail on Cape Cod. It abuts many residential properties. I will bet dollars to doughnuts that many or most of those abutters complained that the trail was going to destroy their privacy and lead to an increase in loitering and property crime. That didn't happen, in fact, just about every single property abutting the trail has it's own pathway that the owner has cut to access it.

My prediction is that SD/LB will be have a similar experience. They will use the trail for exercise and for access to downtown Laconia and the Weirs on a dedicated pedestrian-bicycle path without having to jump into their cars, like virtually every trail of this type that has been built.

We owned in SDS for 10 years, most other owners I spoke with about the WOW trail over the years were not opposed to the trail itself so much as the stupid/ugly chainlink fence that comes with it.

A good number of South Down properties are rentals, and it is not really like there is strict security to get in the front gate, thus most owners there are not under the impression it is some private gilded oasis that is built to keep the general public away.

I think much of the concern is that the trail won't be maintained and will end up as more of an eyesore than something that is fully utilized.

I agree. I also owned in SD/LB for 10 years. Moving to Meredith Bay. many residents really have 3 concerns 1) security/ including use of the facility by non owners 2) property values 3) the fence


My feelings are over time the values will actually increase after an initial downturn, as long as the fence is esthetically pleasing with easy access to get to the on water amenities in the community and lastly especially in season the continue to monitor the beaches and pool as they are done now the WOW Trail will end up being a tremendous asset and selling point for the community.



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Fencing
 

Phase I does have a chain linked fence and the reason for that was federal safety rules and regulations as the track is considered active. Phase II has a combination pleasing metal picket fence and wood railing. This is due to changes in regulation result of feedback. I urge you to take a walk on Phase II and enjoy the new fences. Phase II connect to the Belmont Trail that brings you near Mosquito Bridge. I wonderful walk.

Belmont plans will eventually connect to the Tilton trail. From there the possibility of biking/hiking to Concord or Hanover is planned.

There is preliminary planning in Meredith about building a rail trail from downtown Meredith down to the Weirs. This is really exciting!

Major, Do you know how many crimes have been reported from the walking trail to the ANY police department? I am not knocking your remark about crime because to an extent I believe it's true. Was just wondering if you or anyone else had any stats backing that up.

Another thing to consider is the effect on wild life that can no longer reach the water. Even though there is much development on that shore, there is also a lot of woodland. The area around Pickerel Cove is mostly a large wooded area.

WOW Trail
 

More anecdotal. I read the police blog, and there have been several instances of individuals being arrested for drugs on the trail since its creation. (I referenced one assault in an earlier email.) It is pretty well known that a lot of drug activity occurs on the section between Messer Street and the library.

Anyway, from the comments, it appears that SD/LB is not winning the vote of popular opinion. I'm against it not necessarily because of my affiliation with SD/LB, but because I think it's a waste of money. Even if funding is available from federal, state and private sources to build phase III, the City will ultimately have to maintain it. I think our money could be better spent on other things.

I don't have a Dog in the fight, however I DO agree it is/was/and will be a total waste of money. Just another feel good moment. No facts here just a common sense approach..... Dollars spent on the WOW trail ( from where ever ) vs The amount of people who use it. Just Financially doesn't make sense. Could have built a glass bridge over Paugus Bay and really had a view.

I Do not have a dog in the fight either, but I have proposed many times putting it on union ave with the businesses to generate foot traffic and use the already way to wide sidewalks then up lake street and down weirs blvd up the road to the weirs, most of this area having plenty of room for the space of a trial, it will generate much more use and be better for the town and all those involved, not to mention it will go right by the visitor center as well.

side note that will bring it right by my doorstep

This just in . . .
 

from May 2011 to April 2016, the Laconia Police Department received 132 incident calls concerning the WOW trail. Most incidents involve vandalism, intoxicated people, suspicious persons, hypodermic needles and assaults. Last year, one incident involved a tent city on the phase I section of the WOW trail, with some of the residents actually providing the WOW trail as their home address.

I encourage anyone concerned about their safety on the WOW trail to contact the Laconia Police Department. I hope this helps.