We can bicker back and forth all you want on this, but I think that the opinions of the people that were actually at the Poker Run as well as friends of the occupants account of the accident hold a lot more water than your opinions.

By the way, you are wrong about the windsheld as well. Sunsation has two windshield options on that boat, a solid painted fairing which is a molded part of the top deck and will not come off, or a completely clear windhshield that screws down like on any other boat. The boat had a clear windshield. Your monitor must be tinted... :laugh:

I was referring to someone else in the original post.

"The new Senator for this area lives on Bear Island"

I guess I could have said

"The new Senator for this area stays on Bear Island"

I doesn't make any difference to me, It shouldn't make any difference to anyone else.

You people only care because you think it is an error I have made that you can exploit. The reality is you are pissed! You are on the losing side of an argument you hate to lose. Your arguments do not stand up again real data, real deaths, political reality and public opinion. In your hearts you know the speed limit will pass this time and nothing you can do will stop it. And this has you really pissed.

I can't do this anymore, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. And I am starting to feel sorry for the fish. I hope you all still find this beautiful lake a wonderful place to come to even with a speed limit.

That long beautiful pirate boat went by a while ago, you know the one, it has a skull and cross bones on the side. The people inside were waving and having a great time. I hope things like that never leave this lake.

There are aftermarket windshield tints even in New Hampshire, and these injuries were done by a hotdogging showboater in Florida. If you won't review the video, no one can lead you to see with your eyes what you have already accepted in faith.

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155180898

Island/Relaxin wrote:
I believe that has more to do with a violation of the 150' no wake zone than speeding boats doesn't it? As you saying these boats were buzzing around you at greater than 45 miles an hour?

A speed limit zone around the Weirs? Again, I think you might be confusing the need for a speed limit with enforcement of the 150' rule. To tell you the truth I've never seen anyone going 45 or above at the Weirs.

Island/Relaxin wrote:
How large is too large? Are you talking style of boat (cruiser v cigarette style) or are you talking tonnage? There are some large cruisers on the lake but nothing really outrageous. I got the impression you're going after cruisers only because of your comments about exempting the Mount.

As I have said many times, enforcement of existing laws will solve the problems the speed limit crowd has without additional laws or spending the limited funds the Marine Patrol has on a law that it appears data collected and anecdotal evidence shows isn't needed. So enforce the laws we have and get those few operators that you cite into compliance and everyone is happy.

I was going to respond to a number of Islanders comments about limiting power on a "drinking water supply" but they have become just too ridiculous!

I now believe she is writing these posts to be intentionally outrageous to push buttons! :laugh: Good one!:)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was the one that stated he was showboating... Pushing the edge. Never said that he wasn't. Some of your claims though are embellishing the situation a bit.

No other boats were came close to colliding with each other. When he took the lead no other boats were even pictured! Aftermarket tints on the boat? You could pick this out in the midst of the accident? Gimme a break.

Check out the following link, the accident victims were actually the ones that released the video to promote safety/ No cover up there...

http://destinsharks.com/photo-and-video/196#more-196

A quote from the link:

"As the video shows, the boat was driving mostly south at high speed into the mouth of Destin Pass were it ‘hooked’ after landing from a big wave jump. Destin Pass, like most passes, is subject to unpredictable wave patterns due to tide/wind conflicts, shallowing water, and busy boating traffic by vessels of all sizes."

If you would like to contact ACTUAL people at the poker run that can attest to weather/water conditions and the proximity of other boats in the area I am sure I can point you in the right direction. Lets agree to disagree and move on. Isn't this thread supposed to be about Winnipesaukee anyway?

The only thing that irritates me is when people lie or twist the truth for their own personal agenda. Little by little we extracted the truth out of you. You don't like loud boats, you don't like wakes, you don't want GFBL boats in front of your house. You want the lake all to yourself. The speed limit is first, then you want the cabin cruisers gone, finally you seem to be advocating for a 10 horsepower limit.

Here's a little bit of news for you, it's a big lake, you're going to have to keep sharing it with many people. Most of them are good people, a few are inconsiderate jerks. You want more laws because in the past a few jerks have not obeyed the laws already in place. The speed limit won't work. My opinion (see, that's what you say when your trying to be honest, you should give it a try sometime) is that a speed limit will make the lake more dangerous. We're not going to get more MP to set up speed traps, so the ones that patrol now will be assigned to sitting in a hiding spot, trying to catch someone going over 45mph. Problem is that their are few, if any going that fast so stops will be few and far between. So you or someone like you, insistent that you can't be wrong, will start demanding more MP resources be committed to speed traps.

Anyway, please do stop posting, I need a break from pointing out your incorrect assumptions and conclusions.

BTW,
"The new Senator for this area stays on Bear Island" is the truth, your other statement just like most of your "facts" just doesn't cut it.


Finally, that long pirate boat you're talking about, is a very fast GFBL boat, I find it funny that you "hope things like that never leave this lake", it is exactly what you are trying to run out. :)

Not sure I'd take that boat very far offshore. It's more like a loud (in more ways than one) deck boat. It's quite a bit different than the 51' 9", blue and white Nor-Tech that's been out and about this year which may be the biggest GFBL I've seen on the lake yet and certainly an easy target for the speed limit proponents. I don't know the name of the boat, but it says "Londonderry New Hampshire" on the transom.

That said, that Londonderry Nor-Tech wasn't loud (so GFBQ??) and sure throws a tiny wake for a 50+ foot boat. I was shocked when I crossed it's wake a couple of weeks ago while it was cruising at an estimated 50 MPH and I could not really hear it nor did the wake affect me any more than typical chop. I hope boats like THAT never leave the lake. It's dripping with sophistication and class.

This is my boat....
 

You are correct KonaChick.......I WAS ON the boat when the pic was taken, choppy day going about 50 mph with the trim up. We were not racing, in the 25 years I've been on Lake Winni I've never been in a 'boat race'. So I wish the speed limit supporters would quit putting up this picture and trying to claim we were speeding or racing.....because we weren't. It's simply another day on the lake enjoying the ride. We were away from the shore and probably 500 feet from any other boat. Not breaking any laws or even going fast. This is a perfect example of how perception IS NOT reality.

We are on the broads side of RSI and can testify that after many many observations of boats going by, there seems to be an almost universal correlation between the speed of the boats and the distance they keep from shore and other boats. It must be a matter of human instinct since it seems so universally observed. My rough estimation is that less than 5 percent of boats above 40MPH are racing. It does happen and we do enjoy it. Even the racing boats are 200-300+ feet apart. Much more likely to see 150 rule violations on boats below 40MPH.

We also see boats with what seems like barley more than the prop in the water quite routinely. Looks like fun. Wish my boat could do that. The rougher the water the more likely the boats will ride a bit higher. We have observed that boats don't have to be going especially fast for them to get air. (I know some on the forum would say that above 30 is fast, to them I would say, yes it was above 30)

I would also say that the thing that seems to slow a fast boat most is if rough water lifts the prop too high. Most don't seem to want to risk the investment if the boat is not properly engaged with the water. I don't know if it's concern over control or lack of load on the prop but it does seem to be the natural limit the lake puts on everyone.

I find the operators of the boats going fast past our place to be paying much better attention to what's going on than the average boater. Out of self preservation they seem to avoid the unpredictable things in front of them.

Kewl Pic-- bbarrell

Wish someone could snap one off of our boat like that !!

Damn, ours is only a bowrider, probably wouldn't look all that great anyway :(

Well, Dave R's boat only goes 50-MPH: both of you could come over and I'll snap a few shots of you both on the edge of control. (Or airborne, and not in control at all).

I turned right 90°, and photographed these two: four boats in a 500' space between the markers. (Two being anchored).

Great picture but what's your point?If the boats were too close that's a violation.You certainly can't tell from the photo that these boats are going more than the proposed speed limit.Why would Dave's boat be "on the edge of control" as you put it because it goes 50 mph.Maybe your sailboat would be on the edge of control at 15 knots and could take out a kayker or someone in a canoe.I believe sailboats have the right of way because they are at the mercy of the wind,have less control than a powerboat,and certainly have a much more obstructed view with all the sails and rigging.
There's plenty of room for every type of pleasure craft on this lake.

Because I once wrote something like: "my boat feels "twitchy" above 50 MPH".

It's irrelevant now though because that boat has been used in IL/MN for the past three seasons by the guy who bought it from me in 2005; and I'm in a different boat now that just breaks 50 MPH on a good day. The new boat feels completely planted at WOT, or any other speed. The old boat was a lot more fun though, I miss it.

It's amazing how the lack of "depth of field" can make pictures appear. But any reasonably intelligent person will realize this

My boat feels twitchy at 5mph in the Weirs channel, am I on the edge of control? If I slow down it gets worse, but if I speed up it gets better.

Should :laugh: I fight :laugh: for increased speeds :laugh: in the channel?

BTW the last sentence is a joke, I really don't mean it, really. Please don't quote me later and say one speed limit opponent advocates speeding in the channel.

APS, I did a careful and painstaking analysis of your picture and came up with the following results:

Assumption, the guy standing on the boat is 6 feet tall.

Observation,

1. From the bottom edge of the picture to the first white boat would take 6 guys stacked one on top of the other to fill in the space.

2. Only one guy will fit between the two white boats

3. The boats are pointed directly at each other in this picture.

4. The guy in the picture was fishing for Mahi.


Conclusion,

1. Since you stated that their was 500' between markers, that aren't even in the picture and only 6 guys at 6 feet fit in the space from the edge of the picture to the boat you were in, only 36 feet from the other boats in violation of the 150' rule.

2 and 3. Since only one guy fits between the boats (6 feet) and they were pointed at each other there was a collision and ensuing explosion in which no one including yourself survived.

4. The guy was fishing for Mahi because it would be as accurate as all the other assumptions you could draw from a picture like this.

Your picture is useless and shows nothing but a couple boats out on the lake.

When you say you turned right 90 degrees are you implying my boat and these 3 others were all within 500 feet? I can't speak for the 3 others but mine wasn't next to them. This is a totally different pic of 3 different boats from across the other side of the shore. My boat isn't in that pic, not even sure if this pic was taken on the same day or in the same area? And I only see 1 anchored. I do agree though those 3 boats appear too close although you can't judge speed or distance from a pic that far away.

something fishy here
 

Isn't it interesting that the hulls of these boats are way straight on top of the water? I smell photo shop:laugh:
seriously though, this looks very super-imposed

I agree..............
 

Very suspicious

From other Internet photoshopping questions, I understand that such changes can be detected by examining the enlarged edges of the suspect object for "blurring". Since I use only film—with no pixilations whatsoever—you're welcome to check for any and all irregularities: prepare for disappointment.

"Lack of depth of field" would indicate one object sharply in focus, with the foreground and/or background being out of focus. This photo has great depth of field: everything is in focus.

You may recall that this was a 2005 Poker Run. Your recollection after two years of your exact speed is truly remarkable. :confused:

It's also reassuring to know that a pleasureboat can still "showboat" at only 50-MPH. :rolleye2: And we all know that "a Poker Run is not a Race". :rolleye1: Your boat's photo may have followed the other photo. Boating, even by weekend standards, was especially hectic.

However, it was still a signature moment for me, as I was one of the two small stationary boats between the two markers, located in the sudden Poker Run rush. As the fisherman in the photo stated here:

Not one, but two, MP boats appeared together—perhaps someone on shore called them in. I was close enough to shore at one point to have a resident (a stranger to me) ask me if I wanted to borrow his video camera!

There was a time I'd have agreed with you. Among a new generation of boaters, "pleasure" has a whole new meaning.

Aren't we now considered WAY OFF topic as the thread was "Speed Limit Test Zones now Dead in the Water" -- and finally end this thread till there is more news on the topic.

Another Great boating action shot !!!

Perhaps you can start a thread for Action Shot pic's (just an off the wall thought) as I truely like to follow the "News" through this forum yet unfortunately find important topical threads like this get bogged down with "off Topic" material.

Great Photo's ----- means nothing with regards to speed, spacing, or more importantly -->> "Speed Limit Test Zones now Dead in the Water"

Um, you've got your facts wrong. I didn't participate in the 2005 Poker Run. Or 2006, or 2007.......
And remembering my speed isn't hard because we drive at about the same speed in open water most of the time 45-50 mph....my boat doesn't go much faster than that (contrary to popular belief, it tops out around 65mph and loses maximum speed capacity every year).

Sorry bbarrell but there's just no way APS is wrong, it has to be your mistake!
:emb:

Yeah, maybe I blacked out that day....or possibly I have a twin that drives the same boat. More likely APS assumes every boat on the lake that's a power boat participated in the Poker Run that day if they were on the water going over 20 mph. More support for my 'perception is not reality' theory.

Just a few questions...
 

It may only be a coincidence that the "buzzing" of the other boats around me coincided with this photo. I could be very wrong...so I ask you: what is your understanding of the following?

What does bbarrell really mean when he wrote:

"I was 'ON' THE BOAT"
"We weren't racing"
"I wasn't "participating" in the Poker Run"
"...possibly I have a twin who "drives" the same boat". (Makes bbarrell the driver, doesn't it?) :D

We're led to questions like the following:

1) Was he a passenger in a boat whose driver wasn't registered in the Poker Run?
2) Was he the driver in a boat whose driver wasn't registered in the Poker Run? (Or hadn't paid).
3) Was he in a Poker Run in 2005 and mistook it for 2004? (when he remembers not being in one—or at least not being "a participant").
4) Is bbarrell the "driver", owner, or a passenger? (A passenger may—or may not—be a registered "participant").
5) How could this boat be identified as the boat he was on (or "driving")? It looks just like many other boats with three aboard.

I must ask because both photos are from the middle of an entire roll of film that was gone in about an hour. Perhaps I could e-mail the file to a neutral forum member for corroboration.

It is said "there are no coincidences", but there were so many ocean-racers that day operating at similar speeds and traveling on the same pathways. :confused: (And no shortage of Jet-Skis trying unsuccessfully to catch them).

All twenty-three photos were taken from my anchored powerboat, positioned 150-feet from the marker to get a closeup. Those two ocean-racers passed to the far side of the fishermen, but I have another 20 photos taken that day.

There is no speeding law; however, my NH Boaters Guide describes the following:
With a few tons of airborne boat—unable to stop or turn—I wouldn't admit to being "the driver" either. :blush:


BTW: Both photos have a widespread and interesting history. I think every concerned NH Legislator received a copy of them last year.

Some disregarded their significance to the "Unlimited Speeds" issue prior to the election, and are employed differently today.

APS you are proving how much, you don't know
 

I won't spoil the fun I will let bbarell break the news to you.

The only history those photos have is the one you made up yourself.

APS you have waaaaaaaaay to much time on your hands..my suggestion is to take up a hobby, preferably NOT photography! :emb:

Maybe APS should write fiction??? Definitely getting plenty of practice here! :D

Do you even know what an Ocean racing boat looks like?
 

I doubt it!

My family has been on Lake Winnipesaukee for just about a century! Yep, 100 years! With the exception of a sanctioned race a number of years ago that involved the MP and even the Mount Washington, I have never NEVER seen an ocean racer on this lake!

A Go Fast boat is not an ocean racer! What is an offshore racer?

http://www.amfoffshoreracing.com/

APS wrote:
Where are they? I assume you must have knowledge of each marina on the lake where these boats berth? I assume you would certainly know exactly where each of these monster boats are located privately, right? Because you and your supporters would have certainly spoken to them before trying tryin to change a state law that would impact everyone, right?? Right!

It's time to get the facts staight. There are no ocean racers on this lake! This is no speed problem on this lake! There are only folks who want to elimiate an entire class of boaters/people from this lake!

I the no speed crowd persists, I would be willing to lead an effort to eliminate kayaks and canoes from Winnipesaukee since they are responsible for the majority of accidents and rescues!

Talk among yourselves

OK, as a followup to my post #3, the Broads-side of Rattlesnake Island (which bore the brunt of the Test Zone avoiders) now has more houses for sale than I've ever seen before. The air is rich in hydrocarbon emissions there.

It's nice that the speeders stayed 150' offshore from Rattlesnake, but at least two huge sentinel boulders 100' off its northern shore act as submarine enforcement.

New Hampshire Legislators received the photos directly from me—via USPS. A few weren't impressed enough, I guess. :confused:

Too late: here's one looking back towards the other marker. :D

I was sailing today (although not on Winni, but have had similar experiences on the Big Lake) and thought I'd go back to the dock to grab my camera to shoot something that had happened several times already, but was afraid I'd get it wet from the wake of a boat passing very few feet off my bow. I also felt the need to have my hands free to prevent the boat from capsizing from said wake and dropping the mast on said boat.

In my opinion, I think the problem is a combination of speed and boat wakes.

If a boater wants to be able to do 90 in the middle of the Broads on a weekday, that should be allowed to, but one doing 40 in the Weirs area on the 4th of July weekend should not be; therefore, I feel that passing legislature for a blanket 45/25 is not a good idea. Like most issues in our great country, the end legislature usually falls into a "happy medium." Oh, the beauty of checks and balences.

Somthing like a law stating that a boater may not operate "recklessly" would work for me. But how can we define "recklessly?"

This might be a good point of reference. RSA 636:2.
I think something has to be done, but not as extreme as a blanket 45/25 law or nothing at all. In addition, I think the "150-foot rule" needs to be more heavily enforced.

Because I just know everyone is dying for me to respond....
 

I was on the boat as a passenger that day...and last time I checked I was a 'she' not a 'he'. We were not participating (registered or otherwise) in the Poker Run, didn't even know it was happening. I've seen you post this pic several times and if you simply zoom in on it, it's clear it's my boat. I can see myself, my husband, and my friend in the pic. You can even see the Boston Red Sox cap I'm wearing. I agree with the other poster, we should start a new thread 'APS greatest hits' and post all your wanna be speeding pics out there.

With that amount of boat in the water it could be doing 30 mph and a zoom lens distorts distances and depth so you should put this picture on your dart board and use it for practice because that's all it's worth:cool:

That Booming Sound...
 

Not exactly a blockbuster, was it?

Well, we know what didn't work:

WinnFABS' outlook is different: I have much less of a gripe with the bass-boaters, who have a longer history of safety, respect for our waters, and abstinence than the ocean-racers who are trailered in.

Wait 'til the rest of the Boomers retire here. :p

Acres per Second --

Enough is Enough !!!

Give your keyboard a rest for a week or two, take a trip to the mountains, see a movie or two, play with the kids (or grandkids), visit relatives - preferably out of state, or whatever

But STOP draggin this Forum down

Speak for yourself. I may be 60 but I still haven't grown up(or old):p

Let's see, you use pictures that were taken with a telescopic lens and tell us it shows how dangerous it is out there when in fact it shows nothing because photos like that distort distances. To get those pictures you stop your boat in a "500 foot" channel, with your boat "150 feet from the marker" along with two other boats that are stopped or anchored. Talk about creating a problem to make your point. You do this on a busy day yet pontificate about how other boaters are inconsiderate and dangerous, I think you should look in the mirror, but then again, the end justifies the means with you people.

Six sights were tested, only two announced publicly and Dir Barrett tells us that essentially there is no speed problem and that some people sitting on their islands see a boat going by and mistakenly assume it is going fast.

You've had your chance to prove your case and you have not. Let's see if the legislature can see through this fear mongering and twisting of the truth. They did once already, we'll see if these newbies have any guts and integrity.

Have you ever driven in a bass boat? There is nothing safe about them. I drove a 17' Skeeter with a 150hp Yamaha on it, it was capable of 70+mph and did not steer at all above 55mph. It hardly touches the water. You would be much safer in an "ocean racer" doing 70mph. Ever watch the bass boats in the broads on a rough fall morning? Most of these yahoos should not even be driving boats.

I am sure a quick search of bass boat related accidents will turn up plenty, as a matter of fact an executive for Brunswick Corp (Sea Ray) lost his life in a bass boat related accident where it collided with a ski boat.

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fis...3/sea_ray.html

OCEAN RACERS http://www.amfoffshoreracing.com/ aren't trailered anywhere! They are shipped in specially designed vehicles.

So outside of that one sanctioned race that I recall a number of years ago, when did you ever see an ocean racer on Lake Winnipesaukee?

BTW, you didn't answer the question, do you know where these MONSTER boats are berthed and have you spoken with the owners/marina operators???

Quotes by codeman671:
Holy Moly! Whose side are you on? :eek:

The above quote is why the Unlimited-Speeds people don't get it and have zero empathy for the others afloat on the lake: :confused:

It's not how you feel about your own safety, it's how unsafe everybody else feels while afloat in the path of a 70-MPH boat.


Most of "those invisible kayaks" are longer than the boat in this photo, and this boat was right where bbarrell's airborne Baja went by in 2005: we have testimony that a 4-ton boat can become airborne at "only" 50-MPH.

Fortunately, this photo was taken two weeks ago. Unfortunately, we weren't in any test zone.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...eBoatersWH.jpg

And yes, that's a young girl swimming behind them—doing a "long swim".

Maybe the 45-MPH daytime limit is set too high for our waters. :(

I have many more photos, but unless there are more questions, I now yield the floor to those WinnFABS supporters who have had a well-deserved rest. :look: