Exactly what threat am I making? Please articulate the threat?

Epic Seaplane Adventures

So you are saying you want a pilot who shrivels up and runs away when adversity hits? Got it. You should stick to not flying.

The list is not my list, it's your list, and you all have voluntarily add your names to it.

It has nothing to do with me at all.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Somebody need to take his shovel away from him.

"The appropriate authorities have been contacted and are aware of all activities and individuals who are involved“

Sounds like your list to me. But of course it has nothing to do with you at all..

Let him keep his shovel. It is very helpful.

If you're in the dark and don't have a clue then chances are your all set.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

So Epic, since you say you want to be as transparent and open about your intentions, why is it you have made no reference to your demonstration that you are doing with the Tuftonboro selectmen on Monday? That would be a great time to address some people’s concerns wouldn’t it?

So a list of folks that organized to oppose your unlawful use of the wharf for commercial use is somehow evidence of a crime that needs to be reported to authorities? Got it. I’m sure those unnamed “authorities” were so overwhelmed with your evidence of crimes that they actually wanted you to start conducting citizens arrests of folks that—gasp—are exercising their constitutional right to organize and express their opposition?

I’m also very confused. For days you have been berating people to give you their names, and now you have names of many that are opposed to your plan, and the first thing you do is call the “authorities”?

Oh my, I’m so glad my name wasn’t on that list. Or was it?

If I’m on your “list” I’m damned proud of it!


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If you are on Facebook, search for “T R Wood SDNELLC” and also that name in the Seaplane Pilots' Association FB page. I surmise that SDNELLC refers to Self Defense of New England, LLC, a company formed by Thomas Wood with an address on Mirror Lake.

Will the karate kid do a demonstration of his non piloting skills?

So, it’s a plane washing and waxing demonstration....Wax on, Wax off...sounds fun.

Interesting that he has not told us about this demonstration on any of the media forums. I think that anyone that can be there, should be present for that.
Could be very informational.

“You all have voluntarily”. You need to retract this comment.

What a fricken dumpster fire this thread is, you all need to shut your computers off and enjoy the good weather that is coming.

I think this thread needs a time out.

I whole heatedly agree..... I hate to see threads get locked, but well we may be at that point...

Numbers?
 

Look at the numbers. 333 posts, mostly by a very small number of people, but 19300+ readers. That's a lot of interest--like a crowd watching a guy on a ledge, and yelling "Jump!, Jump!" Everybody thinks something is going to happen. Don't hold your breath.
I think these guys just enjoy the fight, don't really care about the outcome. It's like our old town meetings (in person-remember those?) when a few people would have a few drinks ahead of time and then argue about everything with the guys they'd been drinking with earlier. Everybody else snickering behind their sleeve because, well, "That's just Tom, Dick, and Harry being Tom, Dick, and Harry, again."
All this on social media doesn't make T'boro seem like a small friendly town I'd want to move to. (The reference to T, D &H is not intended to refer to any specific person or poster, but the tone of this thread is such that somebody will take offense.
Maybe the new Winnipesaukee Spirit could operate out of Union Wharf? That would put T'boro in a more favorable light, wouldn't it?
Better yet, with the apparent small gene pool, T'boro could declare itself to be a tribe and build a casino.

rough day?

I don't think this is accurate or fair. At a minimum, you paint with too broad a brush. 5 or 10 people have raised legitimate questions on private use of public property and potential impact on the area. If you think certain posters have been inappropriate, you should quote their posts instead of disparaging a group with speculation.

I'm very grateful to a number of the posters for highlighting certain issues that I did not appreciate on an important topic.

What I really don't understand here is why is the store owner, NOT Epic, is trying to secure an Airport Site Certificate when this is really not necessary based on what Epic is claiming will be happening in 19 Mile Bay? Why go through this hassle when even Epic has stated and I believe it is accurate he can land wherever he wants. I believe there is more to this and the intent of the store owner is being understated where this not just having Epic running a sight seeing tour or two. Otherwise there would be no reason to go through this process.

Why is Epic doing the dirty work on this - he already has mirror lake to operate off of, 19 mile is a hassle as he would have to take off and land more than is really necessary versus running this out of his place UNLESS the issue here is that he either got caught (neighbor complaints) or knows zoning restrictions would prohibit running a business out of a residential area.

Interestingly enough this certificate as it exists today means nothing other than based on the information submitted meets DOT requirements for a runway and nothing more. It is subject to scrutiny and review and must meet all local ordinances, and local, state and federal law. This is more than a runway and as such the applicant must demonstrate this prior to use. This is why the area developed for the "airport" including specifically the areas to board\unboard the planes is subject to inspection by the BOA. This is why modifications to the town pier is so critical to this plan as the only other option the store owner has is to extend the gas dock which is already a known no go as DES will not allow it.

At face value what I see here is a bait and switch Epic could right now occasionally fly in and out of 19 mile and be fine doing so in fact has. The piers can be worked around as needed for this use. However the situation changes if the desire is to do much more than just that and clearly that is the intention otherwise filing this makes no sense at all and far to elaborate. Furthermore if this was Epic's show he would file it not the store owner yet Epic is the mouthpiece for this the store owner is silent. Odd isn't it?

One final thought, this store owner already has an established reputation of doing what she wants. That is a troubling thought considering the toxic relationship that she has already established with the association she belongs to, yet has openly cried ignorance or discrimination when openly defying the obligations she is bound to with the Pier19 slip owners. Based on that history the town should be very careful in doing anything to enable this person to further exploit any resource that is town property.

Frankly I think many are distracted by Epic and his antics - dig deeper and look beyond that nonsense as it is meaningless. Watch closely what the store owner is doing - that is where everyone needs to remain vigilant. Hopefully the selectmen shoot this proposal down as it would for now nullify any possibility that airport site could be approved for use. The bad part is the store owner has 10 years on that to try to get sufficient logistics in place to satisfy the BOA and thus end up with an approval to operate so even if round one is lost, it won't be the last time this comes up. IF that approval happens it is anyone's guess what that area will turn into.

Something really stinks here.

Maxum,
I agree with absolutely everything you said. Yes, we need to focus of the real intent of the store owner. Everything you said is relevant and makes perfect logic and sense. The whole thing is very deceptive. Seems like if they cant get the town to cut the posts down that may shut the whole project down. The town won't let them run the business from the public dock, I am pretty sure of that. She will try to get a permit for her dock to extend, but we need to think beyond that and let the selectmen hold a public meeting to address creating an ordinance for no seaplane base.

Maxum,

Great post! I honestly hadn’t thought of this from the point of view you brought up but, it makes perfect sense. Why make a flight of just over a mile to pick up passengers @ Pier 19 instead of doing it out of an already established & approved seaplane base? Why is ESA taking the heat on the forum when it is the store owner who has filed for the 19 Mile Bay landing area? Something is fishy.

She has 10 years to finalize everything but with the number of people she has alienated (including the 55 boat owners of the association - who should be her best customers) will she last 10 years bleeding $?


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https://youtu.be/iQVZ-0EMeVQ

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Instead of making an intelligent rebuttal you come up with this. Lame.

I said it early on... the store owner wants traffic in her store.. she is using Epic to make the pitch for her because he seemed more credible and articulate than she is. After reading this thread it appears that is not the case.

It is unfortunate that there can only be speculation because neither of the proponents are forthcoming to the town or its residents.

My theory has always been that Epic is looking to see if a seaplane tour business would have enough demand to turn into a full-time business (at least for part of the year). He already has the plane, so the main infrastructure need is a commercial base. And if you’re trying to start a business and save money, cheap or free is always best (recall he said this business was a “plan B” for his day job). So the town dock was the perfect target. He can’t run a commercial operation from his place on Mirror Lake because that is zoned residential, and, of course, he would upset his own neighbors coming in and out all the time (curious how that is itself a “NIMBY”). And since this is just the beginning of a business plan of testing for demand, he can say that he still has his day job, this would only be intermittent, and all the other ambiguous statements instead of providing actual details.

My assumption is that the store owners serve three purposes. First, there needs to be an “operator” to call for the runway that (for some reason I don’t understand) appears to be needed for the commercial operation. This presumably needs to be someone that owns property by the runway, so Epic needed the store for the runway. Second, this needs to be run at a commercially zoned area, and the store seemed to check that box (except that isn’t the case, since the store is in a residential area, and the variance/planning board approval doesn’t include a seaplane base / tour business). And third, the store has plenty of parking that isn’t used.

While I am sure the store would like traffic, I doubt anyone thinks seaplanes literally flying in from all over to get an ice cream cone are going to be a real driver of revenue for the store. But a cut of the ticket price (tickets are probably a hundred or more bucks a head?) for not needing to do any work seems to be a no-brainer for the store, particularly when the store has already alienated its neighbors and the boat slip owners.

Lawyers help please/Attached permit submitted to town
 

I have attached the permit submitted to town. Note the dates of April 2 and April 5. The second page paragraph 2 (starred) states the form 7480-1 must be submitted to the town's BOA, once the form is submitted the FAA will conduct a review. Can anyone clarify this? Has it been submitted to the BOA? If not it sounds like the cart before the horse. Why would the DOT submit a permit when the FAA has not conducted a review. What does that review entail? I am hoping the BOA will announce when the FAA will conduct a review(if and when).
I also thought if would be helpful for everyone to print and have the information handy when the town holds a public meeting.

I think the term BOA in that approval refers to the State Department of Transportation Bureau Of Aeronautics.. You may be thinking of BOA as the Board of Aldermen. As a town Tuftonboro does not have Alderman. It has a Board of Selectmen (BOS).

Good information in that attachment. Thanks.

Thank you thought it was Board of Adjustment.

For anyone that is still interested in this issue, the town’s board of selectmen discussed several aspects of this at their June 7 meeting. While the selectmen declined to put the issue on their agenda, during the public input portions at the beginning and the end of the meeting, various members of the public raised concerns and there was some interesting discussion. Below is the link to the recording of the meeting. While there was some discussion of the issue at the beginning, if limited in time, the few minutes I would suggest watching begin towards the end at 2:16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf9MWIeeWH8

A few observations. First, the selectmen made clear that nothing is going to happen with respect to the wharf pilings until after the refurbishment of the wharf, and the refurbishment will not be done until next year at the earliest (if interested in the wharf refurbishment project, there was an extensive discussion in the middle of the meeting with the town’s consultant on the status of that project).

Second, the selectmen also made clear that there is no appetite for allowing Epic to use the wharf for a commercial enterprise, at least not without a public bid process (i.e., Epic would have to pay the town and address things like liability issues).

And third, as for just private use of the wharf for seaplanes by cutting posts, the selectmen reaffirmed what they said in prior meetings that the first “baby step” in that process is for there to be a demonstration at a selectmen’s meeting (i.e., on the publicly posted agenda for a meeting that will be partly held at the wharf) where the selectmen, the fire chief, and the police chief, together with any member of the public that wants to attend, will be able to observe the demonstration.

The selectmen clearly understand what is going on here, and are attuned to the issues that have been raised and discussed here. The selectmen stated that there will be a full public hearing dedicated to this issue before anything happens on the wharf. Based on their comments, it seems likely that any public hearing would not even occur until after the wharf refurbishment, so at least another year or two.

What I also found most interesting—in light of Epic’s professed openness for the process and that he has nothing to hide—was the chairman’s discussion (at 2:17) of how Epic had requested from the selectmen that the fly-in demonstration be closed and not disclosed to the public in advance, which the chairman noted is not how the town approaches such things.

Very good news from the selectmen!

Well just remember the store owner has 10 years to get something done over there so even if the first try fails you can bet it won't be the last.

You can also bet that the store owner is probably trying the same rope a dope on DES to get the gas dock extended although I have to believe that is never going to happen.

The deception going on here is a warning sign both are willing to do anything to get what they want. These people are the reason why so much regulation exists cause they live to exploit every possible loop hole the can find and if that doesn't work lawyer up and start petty litigation and cry discrimination.

Nice to see the Selectmen are paying attention.

True, she is very underhanded. She has shown that. The good news is there is no way that store will be open in ten years. I give them three more years of bleeding cash and it will be for sale.

Wow! Thanks for pointing this out. I had no idea that this discussion happened at the end.

Again, I feel as though people keep pounding the mantra of a "commercial operation" on the warf. I do not know how many times I need to say this... I'm not requesting a dedicated space at the warf! I said that at about minute 10 of the video, but then it was brought up again at the end and still people are insisting on discussing this. All I have to keep saying is that people are misinformed. It is wrong to say that I am requesting a space to operate from.

I AM NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PICKING UP AND DROPPING OFF. Just like the commercial barges. I only ask for equal access.

As far as the public demo I feel the Chairman was very direct and told the author of the email directly to his face, "...to grow up.". I thought that was harsher than I put it at the beginning but it was certainly appropriate. THE REASON THE DEMO WAS CANCELLED WAS THE POLICE CHIEF AND I DECIDED THAT THE THREATS WERE CREDIBLE. The comments that in 100 years there hasn't been commercial operations at the pier are completely false. Barges have been going there forever. Please let me know if what I am saying is false.

As far as the selectman speaking about a need for a public demo, it seems as though we need to get our story straight. They say the Fire Chief and Police Chief want the demo, but when I asked the Fire Chief and Police Chief if they want one they told me no that it wasn't necessary. So someone needs to get aligned. Perhaps the selectmen just want a demo but that is not what they said. THERE IS NO ONE HIDING ANYTHING.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

What you are saying is false. The barges do not advertise that they will pick you or your stuff up from the pier 19 wharf. You and or the store owner on the other hand will be advertising seaplane scenic rides from pier 19 wharf for a fee, in other words a private business operating from town property. I do not understand why you do not get that?

You leave the dock on a Saturday afternoon in July for a one hour tour. You return to the dock one hour later to drop your first passengers and pick up for your second tour. But by now there are boats where your plane was, and other boats waiting to come ashore. What do you do?

If that is not operation from the wharf, I don’t know what is. The same could be said about any airport gate—“just picking up and dropping off”. The store is not going to get a cut of the ticket price for letting your customers park there? What’s in it for the store that they keep going to every meeting on this? Between needing parking there, picking up passengers there, giving safety briefings there, and dropping passengers off there, that is operation from the wharf. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, by god, it’s probably a duck.

And for the love of all things holy, please find another strawman. The barges are a necessity for hundreds of town residents on the islands. You are only seeking to use the wharf for commercial use for your personal financial gain. No general benefit to the town AT ALL. That is why barge use up to an hour is expressly permitted by ordinance.

You really do need to find another drum to bang if you think you have a chance to persuade the town that you should be permitted to use the town wharf to run a sightseeing business.

So can a privately owned seaplane park at the dock for the day, walk down the road to visit a friend?


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All day...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Of course! Why not? And a commercial pilot could do the same. I hope they all enjoy ice cream together at the store :)

But you'll notice that ESA did not answer my question of a day or two ago. Can a pilot of a plane (or a boat) reserve a spot in advance on the dock to pick up his friend? No :(

Ummm...no. Every public dock on the lake has time limits.

Here you go: https://www.tuftonboro.org/administr...e-adopted-7218

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