So this is a new reason. I've heard no blocking the dock for EMS, and no commercial operations, I've even heard "I just don't want a plane here.", but this reason is new. Now it's no planes because of distain for someone.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Good thing this forum has the pulse of the people and shows the actual level of public support out there. After one day... Attachment 17004

Epic Seaplane Adventures

How many of these people are Tuftonboro residents who have the final say what happens with their wharf?

I do not have distain for anyone. The people on here are hiding behind a screen name. We do not know who they are or where they live. Most I would venture are not from here, didn't grow up here, and know most of the people in this community. Most I would venture are seasonal people who speak of things like entitlement, but have large boats, and second homes and feel entitled to the dock. Most of the voices are from Islanders who feel like the town dock is theirs and the rules for blocking access to the fire boat don't apply to them and that they can hire people to bring things to them out on the islands and or do some sort of work for hire. Then they turn around and say that shouldn't apply to anyone except people from the islands. Public Dock to them means Islanders first and everyone else is second class citizens. This is entitlement, and distain, but it is not from me. They know they can't say, "I don't want a plane here.". So they come up with every reason they think to attempt to block it.

BTW- Sundancer 320. That's a nice boat! Have a wonderful day.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

No, I just happen to like airplanes. I’ve made my position pretty clear about your request for an accommodation (cutting down tie posts) and ceding part of the dock to you to run your sightseeing business. If you want to run your business you should build the costs associated w/infrastructure (docks) into your business plan.


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Okay, I've been following this thread since the very first post. Epic keeps reiterating that he just wants to be treated fairly and have equal access to town property AND this entire discussion is ONLY about lowering the dock posts on the side of Union Wharf (because he doesn't need anyone's permission or support to land his plane or operate a business on 19 Mile Bay) Then maybe he can answer these few questions for me.

1) How many barge services or any other local business (other than Epic and his business partner, Pier 19 Country Store) have asked to have the wharf modified for their own personal use?

2) How many islanders have asked to have town property modified so they can experience a financial gain from their island-based business? (Because Epic has already made it very clear that his business is not based at Union Wharf)

3) How many boaters have docked, multiple times per day, at publicly owned property every single Saturday and Sunday (weather permitting)?

If the posts on Union Wharf were lowered to deck height (I know you said "leaving enough for boaters to tie to") what would you suggest boats tie to? Or would adding cleats be another modification the town would need to make for the wharf? Or are you suggesting that only the posts that impede your access be modified to fit your need?

Just as an FYI the height of the posts actually do serve a purpose. The current height of the posts is about 3 feet. Many boaters use that height as an assist when entering and exiting their boat.

“I do not have disdain for anyone” and then an entire post expressing disdain against island and other residents based on false assumptions. The people most affected here are island residents, many of whom have been here for generations, in addition to the mainland residents of 19 Mile Bay.

No island resident or island service company uses the Union Wharf in the way you seek. You want to base your entire commercial enterprise off public property. There is not a single example of a commercial enterprise being allowed to base its operations off town property (the Union Wharf or any other town property) in the way you seek without having obtained a permit/license (i.e., paying for it), a public bid process, and providing indemnification to the town for potential liabilities.

Town ordinance expressly permits the barges to use the wharf for up to an hour, and expressly prohibits using the wharf as you seek for more than intermittent commercial operation. This is not new, and has been the case for decades. You are the one that is seeking to entirely change what constitutes permitted use of town property. You are not entitled to this, period.

Epic, you posted 75 db “at the dock”. Did you attempt to get db readings from docks on Chase or Farm Islands or down the mainland side and south end of the bay during takeoff? People don’t live on the dock.

Also, Cow Times posted a list of 9 questions. Instead of answering the questions in a “open discussion” manner, as you have stated you want, you respond to him with a snarky comment. You call people who worked their butts off to acquire a second home on islands and boats “entitled.” Not a way to make friends/supporters & generally bad Business! (Seems I’ve read similar comments about the store owner in this thread.)


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I'm so glad to see that in the spirit of true transparency, the flight into Pier 19 was announced, in advance, so all the naysayers could have come to Nineteen Mile Bay to see exactly what Epic has been trying to explain to all of us. Oh wait, it wasn't!

So with commercial operations aside everyone here is fine with modifying the docks for personal seaplane use right? As long as the public docks aren’t being used for hire is what I’m gathering.

I live in Alton bay. There is an faa approved runway. There is zero facility’s for seaplanes. If I want to stop and give my mother a ride I can’t. Drop in for ice cream or dinner, nope. Furthermore, if you think there is going to be hundreds of operations a day you’re wrong. Most pilots show discretion and won’t land if it’s busy and crowded with boats. This area was built off seaplanes. Most people think it’s pretty neat to see them. But I get it, you don’t want it in your back yard. I don’t hear you complaining about the loud boats blasting there radios, tearing up and down the lake at all hours of the day. Or the wake boats mindlessly cruising around too.

http://weirsbeach.com/reasons-to-vis...seaplane-base/


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If there wasn’t a commercial tour operation, the likelihood of seaplanes in 19 Mile Bay is likely very intermittent, at best. The only reason for a private seaplane to land there is the store, but without aviation fuel, I think it is doubtful there would be much seaplane use.

The real use here and at least my objection is driven by the commercial nature of the operation. The safety profile is very different between intermittent private use and continuous commercial use. The plan is to run tours during peak boating times. I agree that private pilots show discretion not only in not landing if busy, but also in avoiding busy boating times altogether. The incentives are very different for a commercial operation that has paying customers waiting on the pier and whose business has peak operations at the same time as peak boating use. And that is all before addressing using town property for commercial operations.

So intermittent private use for modifying the docks is ok? You’d be surprised how much a seaplane base would attract private users. It’s just like boating, snowmobiling and motorcycling, they are looking for a destination. We enjoy supporting the local shops and businesses. Seaplanes have become less common and because of that the docks are not accommodating. I have had a quite a few people ask me where the seaplane docks are in Alton. They are shocked when I tell them there is none. But it’s a seaplane base, how are there no docks? Most seaplanes around here are amphibious, meaning they have wheels and can land on and most importantly fuel on land.


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None of this is true. The more the nay say'ers keep talking the more they expose their true feelings. I appreciate the forum and discussion.

So a private individual must announce publicly that they are coming? Interesting argument.

More and more we are sounding like we don't live in the "Live Free or Die State" and sounding like the Commonwealth.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

I’m not sure why the town would need to modify the wharf. The plane this weekend was able to tie up just fine. And if I correctly understood the presentation at the board of selectmen’s meeting, seaplanes have always been entitled to land wherever they want (with or without the FAA runway certification) so long as proper distance has been maintained.

Now, the board of selectmen raised their own safety concerns on the use of the wharf for seaplanes in general, and the town of course can regulate the use of the town wharf. I see private use of the wharf as something that should also involve public discussion and debate, but the conversation is very different if there is no commercial operation involved.

Keep digging your hole epic, thank you.

Now we are having a great discussion. Thank you.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

So much wrong in this comment.
Show me anyone’s comments in this thread where they indicated the dock was theirs?
Did anyone show pictures of their large boats? Did anyone say they have one?
You’re using my screen name as a snarky shot at me... that’s fine I can take a shot since you’re not able to without lashing out... by the way Sundancer 320 is a nice boat...sold it long ago..never bothered to change it... nice try though.

I wasn't attacking you at all. I like that boat.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Ok, I will accept that... I agree, nice boat. Even nicer now that I sold it!

This thread is pretty much dead now, but I think that you are misreading my comments. I have a second home and a boat etc etc... I didn't say these people are acting entitled because of that at all. The entitlement comes from the nay say'ers who are acting like they are entitled to the priority of a public dock. I'm not saying things like, "I have a plane, and I should have priority over that side of the dock because I live out on the island" etc etc. They are saying however, "I have a house on the island, so it's ok for me to use the dock for commercial purposes." My comments are pointing out how they are acting entitled to the dock for their commercial use, but then try to prevent any other commercial use. I'll have you know that the barge owners are on my side on this. They all are saying that me picking up and dropping off someone at the dock should not be treated any differently than them picking up and dropping off things for the islanders.

It's a very small, vocal, minority, but they are fighting their own battle with logic when they make the argument.

My point was that they are being hypocritical when they accuse me of being "entitled".

Please stop making false and unsupported gratuitous assertions. Have you done a survey of support and opposition among 19 Mile Bay residents and Tuftonboro island residents? Without that, please don’t say the opposition is a “small” “minority.” I have spoken with dozens of island residents on this over the last several days, and not a single one is in support.

Posting a screenshot of a facebook page—presumably your personal page—with 92 “thumbs up” from presumably your seaplane pilot friends is not “the actual level of public support.”

And enough already with the barge comparison—that use has been determined by the town to be an entirely appropriate incidental commercial use of the wharf and is expressly permitted by town ordinance. If your entire argument to base a seaplane tour business on town property is the fact that island residents need to use it now and then with a barge to inhabit the islands, you are wasting your time. If that logic were to hold, there would be no reason why I could not bring my food truck and park it right where your plane was this weekend all summer. BTW, you still haven’t explained how that is any different, since your argument boils down to if there is even incidental commercial use, all commercial use is allowed.

I wish you would have let this thread die. There is about as much logic and planning here as the publicity stunt of proposing a volunteer seaplane medical air transport.

Epic, you quoted me quoting your post. How is “none of this true.” Are you lying to us?


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Tickets
 

This looks like great fun, never been up in a seaplane.
When will tickets be available, July should be very busy

Instead of a food truck analogy, how about comparing the air tour more like a pizza delivery. A person would say, "can I get a large pepperoni pizza delivered to the town dock? I'll meet you there to pick it up!". That's way different than saying, "I'm going to set up a pizza joint on the dock.".

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Except you’d have to change it to say that you advertise your pizza as Union Wharf pizza and the only place you can get it is Union Wharf. And it’s not just delivery to and meeting at Union Wharf for a quick exchange—the pizza truck would need to occupy the wharf for 4-5 hours per day for a half hour between each order, and longer if a customer is late or no shows. That’s the commercial use difference. And then for the safety aspects, you’d have to have the pizza truck block access to the fire boat, and have the truck try to entirely avoid rush hour traffic at 80+ MPH en route to Union Wharf without being able to touch the brakes. And that’s before modifying the truck to have the loudest exhaust system you have heard for the enjoyment of the neighbors.

But if you use your original hypothetical of a typical intermittent pizza delivery, that would sound awfully a lot like the incidental use for a barge.

This thread may be dying but let me assure you us folks that want our selectmen to enforce our town ordinances in particular the one about no commercial use of the town pier are growing in numbers. We are mobilizing and acting. Can I send you a bumper sticker?

Perhaps this is why face to face conversation is the most effective way to communicate. Your reply to me could not be more misinformed (or perhaps intentionally deceptive to fit your narrative).

I know I must be sensitive to everyone, but what you are saying is completely false. My company name isn't Union Warf, and I'm not basing my operations out of there. I've said this multiple times. The only reason I keep replying to you is not to convince you, but to show everyone else that you are not correct. I'm not being mean or crass, I'm just letting you know that your description of my business is not just a little bit false but entirely false.

My wish would be that you would accept what I'm saying is true, however you have an agenda that is clear. So, I only engage to continue to show my resolve.

I'm all for the bumper stickers. Please show us who you are and do not be shy to engage us in conversation.

Have a nice day.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

That is a very conclusive statement for which you have provided no factual support. I, and others on this forum, have asked a handful of questions dozens of times on the anticipated use of the Wharf, which you have ignored. If your position is that your operations will not be “based” on Union Wharf, then where else are you picking up tours? Where do you think you are based? Your Mirror Lake home where you will operate no tours from? Will you not advertise that you will be operating off Union Wharf as the location for tours?

Small, vocal, minority? You're delusional. Why would any 19 Mile Bay boater want to compete for space with a seaplane landing or takeoff every half-hour? Why would any nearby resident want the drone of the plane also twice hourly? Why would the town want to give a huge number of dock hours to any one business or person?

The Selectmen made it clear that you would get plenty of people pushing back, you should have listened more closely

The beautiful thing is we do not need to keep engaging you in this conversation. Your belligerent, condescending comments are getting tiring. We will let our selectmen do the talking for us. This entire thread of “he said she said” is pointless other than getting the message to the public and letting them see character of those involved. To that end both you and the store owner have proven our point.

This thread is definitely dead... Thanks everyone!

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Agreed. No point when you won’t answer basic questions. Perhaps you will answer questions at the town hearing (it this gets that far). See you there.

Wait! Don’t pronounce this thread dead yet! When you first joined the discussion, you said you would “like to address anyone’s concerns;” you told us to “feel free to ask;” etc. Well, I have asked several questions, you replied to some, but others (some asked multiple times) you have completely ignored. While the thread still has a pulse, please answer:

“For tail clearance. It's not just for me. That's what I'm trying to convey.”
If it's not just for you, who else wants to have the wharf posts shortened?

How far will the tail project over the wharf when the aircraft is alongside?

When the aircraft is secured to the wharf, what will the aircraft's orientation be?

It sounds like the aft ends of the floats will be facing the wharf, is this correct?

"As low as possible down to deck height... leaving enough for boaters to tie to." What is the maximum post height that would be acceptable to you?

Do you want to shorten all posts, or only certain posts?

So, As I look at the picture you posted, your wings would appear to be roughly 6 ft. off the top of the wharf... Drop that lake a foot, and that would have them roughly 5 feet off the top of the wharf... if others are trying to use the wharf how will you feel when they are touching your plane? Bump things off your plane on accident, etc.

In another thread you mention using your plane to help in emergency situations, is this the plane you are referring to?

Don't get me wrong those are great little planes, what is it a Cessna 180, or something similar... The best this plane could hope for to help with, is going to be as a searcher in a search and rescue mission.

I have no problem in what you are trying to do.... But lets stop beating around the bush, lay the full plan on the table, and we can all move on with our lives.

I will agree that the posts are an issue, for a seaplane but hold on, so are the posts, in Meredith, Center Harbor, Wolfeboro, the Wiers and I could go on. Why aren't these other locations being considered? Why is Tuftonboro being targeted? I think it is because it is quiet place on the lake where it is perceived a plane could be left safely for short period of times. As a private citizen I see no problem in you wanting that. However if you have intentions of a private site seeing business then your going about it all wrong.

This issue hear is the unknown... What is Epic Seaplane adventures, what are its intentions... Put the details on the table. stop trying to hide behind your screen, and maybe you will gain support.

All, I appreciate everyone's support and encouragement with this issue. I have attempted to come here on this forum in good faith.

What I have found is that there are a few people on here who are regular agitators, who enjoy being keyboard warriors.

All one need to do is take a few minutes to search their previous postings to see that they have no interest in doing anything other than attempting to bully others who have other view points. Go back and search threads like "mask wearing in grocery stores" and you will find the very same aggressive behavior that these same agitators are displaying here. What you will find is that (one particular person even had the nerve to call people names who disagree with them. Names typical to the narratives, like xenophobic. Oh the irony, because now they hate on this thread and are completely xenophobic! Their thread had even been locked by the mediator because it got so ugly.) Debating with these individuals is a complete waste of time.

In stead of debate and honesty they just spread hate, division, and only seek to cancel people who disagree with them.

These people are not concerned citizens, they are activists.

Our world does not benefit from these people. These people hate others who disagree with them.

I hope to meet all of you reasonable people some day, but there are people (not everyone) on here who are the very same type of people you would see blocking a highway or organizing a march somewhere. It's always the same very few.

I no longer have the time or energy to respond to these folks. Again, go back and search their previous posts. You will see that their intolerance for others is deafening.

I have a family, a job, and a wonderful life. I thank God for that every day.

Thank you for letting me use this forum to counter the "outrage", and expose who these people really are.

See you all at the (if we have one) public meeting. What you will discover is that we are reasonable, logical, and very considerate individuals who want this town to succeed!

Have a good day everyone.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

I thought post #232 was the end for you, you just could not let it go and had to take a few more cheap shots. Shows your true character.

Wow, this is just so rich....

19-Mile Bay
 

Last Saturday at our home on 19-Mile Bay, I heard a seaplane fly low, land in the bay and taxi toward the town docks. Later, it taxied out and took off. It was fun to watch, and very loud--louder than any boats.

Almost every summer there is an occasional ultra-light or seaplane that lands in the bay. Our friends on Bear Island got a ride in a seaplane from the end of their dock one year. Great!

But something that's fun to watch once or twice a summer is not the same as a business that makes trips several times a day on weekends.

This is similar to a zoning question. Occasional use for pleasure is very different from business use, and towns use zoning rules to accommodate various uses. Should 19-Mile Bay and the docks be zoned as an airport?

It is also a question of whether town property should be used for a commercial business similar to the Millie-B at the Wolfeboro town docks. The operators of the Millie-B probably pay for the right to use that dock. The town decided that it adds to the overall benefit of the town to allow it, drawing visitors and earning some income from the dock. No problem. That's the town's explicit decision, and they probably re-visit it every year or so to be sure it still makes sense for the town.

In my opinion, 19-Mile Bay is not like the Wolfeboro town docks, and the town should have the ability to decide what's in its best interest if someone wants to run a business using town docks.

I'm not against seaplanes or ultra-lights using the bay occasionally for pleasure. I am not against small businesses since I am a small business owner.

But I am against the repeated very loud noise of a seaplane business that changes the character of the area for families who want to experience it as a recreational place.

Tuftonboro Public Hearing
 

Does anyone accurately know when the Town of Tuftonboro will be holding a Public Hearing on this application?

Also, will the hearing be held "virtually" or "in person" ?

Please post if you are able to provide any Town information regarding this.