Lidar not radar
 

As others have said that was a Lidar gun not a radar gun. Radar units don't measure distance, only speed (along the line of sight). As for measuring distance for a 150' violation, all 3 boats, the NHMP boat and the suspected violators would have to be in a line (or very nearly so) for that to have any accuracy.

Don't shoot the "messenger" ....... I was only informing inwinni that there is indeed radar (or as I have been corrected LIDAR- all the same to the common folk) being used and relaying my little chat with a hospitiple MP officer

turtletroll
 

Turtletroll- I took a look at your past posts and you have not contributed to one thread that was not speed limit related. Do you do anything on or around this great lake that you could comment on (other than your agenda) that may be helpful to others?

You are the definition of a forum troll.

There is no "Thanks" button on this thread so "Thanks" VitaBene. I have noticed a sharp decline in posts from certain members of this forum. They know who they are!!! It leads one to really put 2 and 2 together and realize that none of those individuals ever really cared about this forum/lake/whatever. All along this forum was just a means to an agenda. Turtle Boy you're not even the worst offender but you have to understand your posts carry little weight as you only surface from the depths to snipe at anti-SL posts or what you deem to be anti-SL sentiments. If you offered up anything other than conjecture maybe you'd be a more welcome addition to the forum. As for now you are merely a mosquito.

Hmmm...seems to me there is a pattern whereby forum members not embracing the performance boat mentality and culture which dominates this forum are hounded and otherwise called trolls. This culture and mentality and some of its seldom questioned tenets, some of which are a occasionally more than a little far-fetched, needs to be examined on a regular basis. These issues are a predominant concern for many of those who partake in the Winnipesaukee experience...swimmers, sailers, kayakers, and those who enjoy the lake from the shore. Many of these folks don't necessarily want to take part in a discussion forum predominated by a performance boat crowd yet were very much involved in recent efforts to change the lake for the better.
The kayak comment was nasty and did not elevate the intellectual tone of this thread.

Trolls - OMG
 

This thread is "Performance Boats - Alive and Well!!!" so I do not understand the judgment or labeling "Troll" status so quickly. I really enjoy the obtuse bantering and if someone is moved to respond to a single issue - so be it! I am a "big" boat owner (larger than a kayak and next in line to be attacked) and also have a canoe that I use when conditions are appropriate in locations that suit me.

I enjoy seeing the performance boats and can appreciate the finesse and rush they get when all is working as designed.

Point is that the actions of a few have gotten us to the point of quick labeling based on opinion. Opinions are usually based on a "select" set of facts. These opinions become a legal weapon to limit rights or make stupid little laws. Frustration is created when these rights or privileges are manipulated by laws created by agendas that are not perceived to be open or honest.

Irrational arguments are thrown into the mix based on the level of frustration or goading by opposite opinions. I also enjoy this process and read everything so I do not miss the fun.

Summer finally started last weekend with the change in the weather, poker run, and water temps close to a swimable level.

This is truly a great forum and it is exciting that it is based on such a great location.

I'm no math major but I seem to remember a formula to find the length of the last side of a triangle if you know the 2 lengths of the triangle and the angle of the 2 known sides. If I am right, then the LIDAR could conceptually figure out the distance between the 2 boats that are being shot by the gun. Anyone know?

Theoretically? Yes

Realistically? No

The unit being used to measure relative speed/distance is a portable handheld device. The crucial element necessary in the formula you offered, to be admissable in evidence in court, would require an extremely accurate way to measure the precise angle between the two vesssels being read in order to interpret their correct separation. Since this particular LIDAR unit has no way of determinig that angle the formua would have to rely on the best guess of the officer, hardly admissable in court.

from the web
 

How do laser (LIDAR) detectors work?
Laser Beam

Laser speed detection is actually LIDAR (Light Detection and Ranging). LIDAR guns project a beam of invisible infrared light. The signal is a series of very short infrared light energy pulses, which move, in a straight line, reflecting off your car and returning to the gun. LIDAR uses these light pulses to measure the distance to a vehicle. Speed is then calculated by measuring how quickly these pulses are reflected given the known speed of light.

LIDAR (or laser) is a newer technology and is not as widespread as conventional radar, therefore, you may not encounter laser on a daily basis. And unlike radar detection, laser detection is not prone to false alarms. Because LIDAR transmits a much narrower beam than does radar, it is much more accurate in its ability to distinguish between targets and is also more difficult to detect. AS A RESULT, EVEN THE BRIEFEST LASER ALERT SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

There are limitations to LIDAR equipment. LIDAR is much more sensitive to weather conditions than RADAR, and a LIDAR gun's range will be decreased by anything affecting visibility such as rain, fog, or smoke. A LIDAR gun cannot operate through glass and it must be stationary in order to get an accurate reading. Because LIDAR must have a clear line of sight and is subject to some cosine error (an inaccuracy, which increases as the angle between the gun and the vehicle, increases) police typically use LIDAR equipment parallel to the road or from an overpass. LIDAR can be used day or night.

As Pineneedles and Skip said measuring distance between boats with radar or lidar is possible. But a MP can't just invent a technique and have it stand up in court. It has to accurate and repeatable.

Even a cheap marine radar unit will show distance between boats. So if the MP really wanted to, they could probably find a calbrated radar unit and use that. But of course just being less than a 150' away is not a violation. You also need to be going faster than headway speed.

Sounds like a good product to build, I wonder how many I could sell...

A weak moment
 

and I do apologize for the tone of the Kayak comment. (sure brought some people out of dark places) It was meant to be something that just didn't make it to fruition. but I should know better, and will choose my words more carefully in the future.

As for someone thinking this forum is inundated with Performance Boaters? I certainly don't own one, although I have kicked the tires (hulls) of some in the past. I don't think many do on this entire forum, perhaps a dozen or more? At any rate, most of them seem as nice as everyone else here.

The title of this thread is "Performance Boats-Alive and well!"
Just sayin'.......

Maybe you could start a thread titled "Kayaks-Alive and Paddling!" ?

and thank you Vt. Steve ...apology accepted and appreciated (really).
Appreciate as well the input from No Regrets and others today and some of the others whose encouraging PM's in the past pointed out the select few minority of posters who tend to intimidate/dominate this forum and who perhaps feel entitled to do the same on the lake. People have differences of opinion on just about everything and if they are offended about having to defend them on the boating forum then maybe they need to move over to the weather forum and start a thread on cumulous clouds.
The name calling/intimidation seen by 2 posters today seems to only dumb down the intellectual tone referred to earlier. I too feel that even if the forum is predominantly populated by (fast) powerboaters, most on this forum are in fact congenial and open minded (though I do recall a discussion many moons ago from a Cow Isl. resident whom we heard from today who seemed unable/unwilling to grasp even the most basic tenets of statistical sampling,, which I think was at the least scary given his status as a person who teaches kids in MA).
Anyway...hoping to get Turtle Grandchild (TG) out tubing/boating this weekend...Sunday looks to be the best day right now.

Missed the point
 

My point was that there are certain members of the forum (and I could care less if they are anti or pro whatever) who only come here to push their agendas. Turtle is one of them. I would not use the term for this poster if he had responded to one other type of thread (had a good meal somewhere, good contractor, whatever).

Forums are about sharing information and experiences not just pushing agendas. I stand by my comment.

Well that is not cool, I just did out a nice formula calculation to show the angle between the two boats with the distance between them and the mp, but when I pressed post "POOF" gone.:eek: So anyway here it is again, slightly shortened out of frustration.

boat a 150 feet

boat b 250 feet

150/250=0.6

sin-1 (0.6)= 36.87 This is the angle between the two boats from the MP's point of view.

tan(36.87)=0.75
0.75 x 150 = 112.5 feet apart
:yawn:
This only works if the MP can prove a right triangle existed, not likely. By the time the MP referenced the trig chart or punched everything into the calculator the two boats in question would be far enough away that a chase may not be practical. They better show their work in court if they want credit.:laugh:

There are other formulas for determining the open legs of isosceles, acute and obtuse triangles but we will keep todays lesson simple.

You might recall that this argument erupted after a comment about kayakers for which the poster has now apologized. That being said, you might have called that poster a troll or having an agenda but that would have conflicted with your agenda. As was alluded to earlier in the day, people who disagree with the mentality and culture of this forum are often badgered as such.
No justification for my choice of which forums I frequent is necessary...many of our posters are very partial to certain topics and I see yours seems to be centered around food. My wife and I started to follow the boating forum a couple of years ago to see how the topic which shall not be discussed was shaping up. We were amazed at some of the outrageous arguments, bromides, and other silly comments put forth by some of more dominating/intimidating members of the forum (no one has yet beaten the comment "If the old man of the mountain were still standing, he'd be shedding a tear right now"...we were on the floor laughing at that one). In any case, we have followed/contributed to efforts to shape the future of the lake, both in the recent and more distant past. As far as other topics like eating (we tend to eat at home with family because the view can't be beat and we kind of got out of the habit, what with college tuitions and the like which made demands on our income) and home maintenance (we do most of that ourselves), these are things we tend to discuss with friends and family. By the way, on the topic of postings, we are amazed at the number/frequency of some of the posters...makes us wonder what time is left for anything else...what is it, 425 in 2 years for you? Glad you still seem to be finding time to go out and eat.
Well, sorry to have had to take on the negative tone of your 2 posts today...tomorrow is another day and maybe we'll all wake up in a better mood. Bon appetit, TB

Ya, And Well....
 

The doors have very long and very been closed here on anything other than "Perfomance Boats-Alive And Well". What is you're point?

Others will always follow, and get lost in the wake,....??

"Safe Fun", and All That Stuff...
 

Not commenting is certainly up to you; however, my own thoughts were conveyed in response to this:

:rolleye2: Moving on...

____________:look:

Well, yes... :o......

.
.
.

Waitaminnit! :eek:

An agenda of "safe fun" that includes defeating radar? :confused:

Several U.S. states—but especially Canada—are very serious about radar detectors: :mad:

Thanks for confirming, mathmatically, what Skip said. I forgot about the right angle thing and you are right. I would be willing to bet though that some MP may try this tactic and now we are all forewarned. It is an interesting question though, how WOULD an MP be able to prove that you are 150' from anything? No land markers are available, I wonder if anyone ever went to court and questioned a MP's judgement of distance without points of reference? Sorry for being off topic but I don't feel like being just a statistic for soemone else's poor distance or for that matter speed estimation. Just like land radar I am sure all the calibrations must be done on the LIDAR or whatever before a conviction could be made. Question Authority!

Just to be on topic. I don't own one, but I like performance boats.:D

As do I even more so than ever. It has become ludicrous and I truly believe this poster should be on monitor status. :rolleye2: Not once has this individual offered anything on any other forum of value??? Why?

There is a difference
 

Let's back up- A) I have no agenda on performance boats and speed as my "fleet" consists of an 86 Chris Bow Rider that can almost hit 44, a 16' Old Town Canoe and a Laser sailboat. My main issue with the speed limit is that enforcing the existing rules and laws, particularly the 150' rule, would make the lake a safer place than a speed limit B) The difference, as I see it, between you and the supporters of performance boats are that they are generally not posting negative comments about Kayakers on Kayak related threads, you on the other hand seem to only post against performance boats on performance related threads. It is just my opinion, you can choose to ignore me from this point forward but the "got sour grapes" reply got to me.

The bottom line is we all want the same thing- to be able to enjoy the lake without infringing upon others. And I have been infringed upon by everytype of watercraft on the lake at one point or another. Like you, I have seen boneheads captaining every type of craft.

FYI, I have worked hard and been fortunate enough to be employed in a manner which allows me a great deal of flexibility. I start between 0330 and 0400 everyday and usually wrap up by 1730 or so, but on my breaks from the insanity of my job, I follow this forum. This lake and state are very near to my heart which is why I contribute here. If you want to compare schedules sometime, PM me- I go like a madman so I can enjoy the lake with my family and friends, eating out is part of that.

None of us have a time machine and we can't go back to the 50's- I know when and where the lake will be crazy and on those days we avoid it when possible.

Enough said, I'm going to the lake.

Nothing "erupted" on this board, YMMV.

The run for charity was brought up, as the dollars raised. My facetious, or snide comment, could have been worded better I guess. Better still, I should have left it out altogether, and just focused on the positive aspects of the run and the ensuing monetary gifts. Most here are mature enough to understand it, some aren't.

I'll bet you and yours (TB), are not rolling on the floor laughing when pureplay facts are brought up that you can't respond to. There are many responsible organizations around the country that have devoted considerable time and resources to promote safer boating, more interaction with various law enforcement agencies, state and federal legislators and so on. Many good souls on this board alone provide positive reinforcement that the good guys outnumber the bad by a wide margin.

Many of us come from a wide range of on water lifestyles, a small few have performance boats, there are bowriders, fishing boats, old classics, cuddy cabins, cruiser, people that canoe, kayak, and some that do it all. The VAST majority (probably almost all), are against

1) drunks on the water
2) reckless and dangerous boating behavior
3) rude and obnoxious boaters that may well fall into the first two categories.


Within that group, there is pretty wide agreement amongst us that the problem boaters are fairly easy to spot, need to be focused on, and that they will continue to exhibit their bad behavior until they are stopped. Pretty basic stuff.

I feel that most of us are pretty responsible, fair in pointing out problems, and would mostly like to enjoy ourselves and have a good time. I don't care if someone is in a 40' high speed cat or a 14 foot aluminum boat. If they are endangering people, I want them stopped. I don't need a rangefinder to tell the difference between 150' and 10 feet, nor do I care much if someone is safely boating and is only 117.27896 feet from me.

TB, so you share any of the above with us? And I'm sorry to be speaking for so many people, feel free to add to my small list, or even disagree with the context of what I'm saying. But I feel I've spoken my peace.

Come on Hazelnut, get real. You sound like the little kid who goes crying to mommy because his sibling said "something mean" to him. Don has repeatedly shown more wisdom than you give him credit for in this regard. One thing that stands out clearly to all is that since Don closed the forum to SL discussions, many of the performance boaters with agendas (your word) of their own keep trying to slip in under the radar with such topics as Speed Limits/Bad for the Economy, There Ought to be a Law, and Performance Boats, Alive and Well. Some have used these threads to taunt and ridicule those with an agenda (again your word) different from theirs or to boast about how they managed to break the law without getting caught. The nasty comment about how much the kayakers contributed to the Easter Seals is just the tip of the iceberg. Many joined in on the forum in order to follow the SL debate during its peak last year and to follow boating news in general. Don closed the SL debate last year, yet some of you can't seem to help yourselves from adding your little tweak or taunt. Then when somebody counters said tweak or taunt, some crybaby yells "troll" or the omnipresent smokescreen "agenda". Name calling is easy and names like Turtletroll or Twaddle Boy are not likely to cause me to go out and slit my wrists, no more so than if I called you Hazelcrybaby or someone else Eatabene. As pointed out earlier, I suspect there is a corrolation between those who might want to dominate/intimidate on this forum and those who might wish to do it on the lake. I sense this when somebody makes a nasty or petty comment on one of the "under the radar" threads, taunts someone to defend or reply, then yells "troll" or "agenda". And speaking of the poor worn out and tiresome word " agenda", every one of the 5 billion+ people walking on earth has an agenda. I have an agenda, you have an agenda, WINNFABS has an agenda, and the now disgraced NHRBA had an agenda. If Don were to monitor/censor something on this forum, I would vote for the word agenda. I wish, in fact, that Don would stop all of these under the radar threads like he did with the SL/Bad for the Economy one. Some of us want to still follow boating on the lake without the now customary below the belt dings already described. This might well allow us to follow boating issues without crybaby responses like " he only posts on these threads...wah, wah, wah". I've said in the past that posting on this forum is like asking 3 foxes and a chicken to vote on what they would like to have for dinner. The outcome is always predictable and never in doubt. I can handle that. And I can take solace in that it seems like civility and tranquility are now more apparent on Winni than in years earlier, for whatever reason. In that regard, some of the things occuring on this forum are not a reflection of the reality on the lake.

Kudos
 

to those on this forum that share the love of the water, and hope it will be available to all for many generations to come. I've had the privilege of growing up on the shores of Winni as a kid, and many weekends after that as an adult. I was fortunate enough to have a dad that instilled both discipline and respect, and beyond having a wondrous childhood on the lake, certainly didn't spoil us with riches.

Bad and good economies will come and go, and the boating industry is probably paying as much or more a price as any industry during this year. No question boat traffic on lakes and other waterways is down nationwide. Last year, it was sky high gas prices, this year it's cost of living, layoffs, and the weather. Speaking of the weather, I've glanced and looked at hardtop boats with windshield wipers and heaters this year :laugh: Maybe I'm getting old, or maybe I just need to not get as wet. At any rate, we still persevere on the water regardless.

Not everyone on the waterways have a lifelong upbringing on the water and around boats. The past decade or so has brought people from all walks of life to the boating world. As with any activity, be it golfing, sailing, hiking, many don't share the same degree of responsibility and civility as many of us would like. Positive influences exist, in the form of sailing clubs, powerboating clubs, and all sorts of community centers and yacht clubs. Within these groups resides the positive attitudes that can and do rub off on their members, and subsequent generations.

I've met so many thoughtful and genuinely nice people both on the water and in other endeavors such as golf. I've also witnessed some pretty rude and dangerous behavior out on the water. Much of it is attitude, which as anyone that drives a car can attest, is very hard to change. Peer pressure is a powerful force, a more appropriate upbringing is certainly better. All we can do is just try to have positive influences on everyone, and at the very least, teach our kids to be exactly what we'd like everyone to be. Heck, I'd like to instill some common sense and decency in some of our youngest law enforcement people. So it's not an isolated problem.

Most people understand these issues, which are certainly not specific to the boating world. It would be helpful to have MP folks chime in on the real state of the problems, as spoken by boaters themselves. I know many such conversations have occurred, and many would be surprised at what the MP really sees, not to mention the hierarchy that they live under.

At any rate, I'm delighted to have a body of water that (conditions permitting), allows me complete and unfettered access. No congestion, not many problems, and less headaches. I think the weather has gotten to me this year, and I've allowed negative people to influence my responses. I refuse to do so again. Life's to short to debate topics with such obvious results. In that light, it's outside time :D

Why, exactly, is NHRBA disgraced? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

YAWN! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Anyone have any "Deepwoods Off" Actually I think "SKin So Soft" would actually work here with this one! :rolleye2:

Gimme a "T" Gimme an "R" Gimme an "O" Gimme an "L" Gimme another "L" what does it spell? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I have Deep Woods Off Sportsman, with a Deet concentration of 98.11%.

Boy...you and that Hazelnut are ruthless. Having followed this forum for a few years, seems as though anyone with opinions on the other side of the SL debate will always end up being called a troll, IMHO. And BTW, having read many of your restaurant reviews, it does indeed seem as though you have eaten a rather wide swath across central New Hampshire. Seems too bad that you're so judgemental of others. Maybe you should take some of your own advice about posting on various topics on the forum:Perhaps you could offer some reviews on gyms, personal trainers, diet centers, or cardiac surgeons. (VitaBene...red and white Chris Craft- always flying the Dinner Being Served banner)

11 count em 11 posts and THIS is one of them. WOW! :laugh:


Vita lets finally meet up and eat our way across the Northern half of the state. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

At least this post made me laugh that's contributing SOMEthing. ha ha ha ha ha ha :laugh:

correct
 

Good point...I met Hazelnut this past Tuesday, and Christ, the guys 5' 2", 425 lbs!
I actually had to help him out of his boat, onto his three wheel cart (he is too chunky to walk) to drive across the street to the 19 Mile Store for 16 pieces of fried chicken.
Very sad.

I think Don should check IP's and would likely find a bunch of members posting from the same IP again. Then the same folks would say AGAIN, they are sharing internet access with their neighbors on Bear Island!

And so then, what exactly would that accomplish?

Would further establish that some folks are using multiple screen names(maybe new ones) as has been an issue in the past. Seems the most recent poster is only interested in a certain issue. Big suprise there.

Phew thank god you were there sa. I almost capsized my boat getting out.

Back on topic. This weekend it seemed to me that there were MANY boats out. Maybe the most I've seen all summer. Performance boats were out and about. Not sure if I've noticed any difference in how they drove those boats. Several went through the area near my house at various speeds. I didn't notice if any were really going any faster than 45-55 MPH tops. Pretty typical behavior in comparison to the past several years.

Traffic in the Weirs was pretty robust. The channel was jammed on Sunday morning around 11:30am. I noticed that the beach wasn't that crowded though.

LocalRealtor, the though had crossed my mind. :rolleye2:

The MP didn't expect much of a difference this year either, for what they described as "obvious reasons". But they were on top of the PWC hitting the rear end of a moored boat. Similar to another famous accident, only different.

You got me
 

Sun and TB, you nailed it- I do love eating. Being 45, I have done it 10s of thousands of times and just haven't been able to quit. And until I do, I figure I will eat well, both at home and out.

I actually like my new nickname- Eatabene (thanks TB, I really like it!!). I hate multi-nickers but maybe I'll use that one for my food related posts.

Because of my love of food, and to counter my caloric intake, I exercise by hill walking (and ice walking in the winter), lift at the gym a fair amount (gotta maintain that lean muscle mass at my age), and lead a pretty active lifestyle. Thanks for the concerns over my health, that was so nice of you :)My cholesterol level is 158 so I haven't been to a cardiologist yet, but will let you and the forum know if I find a good one. I will admit that I am carrying an extra 5 or 10 lbs right now as I have been off my routine due the being in the middle of a RE transaction.

Sunset- PM me if you want to come exercise with me. Perhaps you can give me some pointers so I can melt those pounds off.

What do you mean "further establish" I am unaware that it has ever been established.

I don't think anyone involved in this threads controversy is from Bear Island. I guess you are just throwing mud with the hope some of it sticks. Well this time you are way off target.

I know of two people
 

In this thread that is from Bear Island. Fortunately they are on the opposite side from where you are BI. They don't share your view(s).

How do you know what my views are on this controversy?... You may be surprised.

In any event please, please don't put me on the same side as TB. I asked him to "shut up" about a year ago in the accident thread. Since then I have pretty much ignored him.



The question remains... Who are the Bear Islanders LR talking about?

LOL.....sounds all to familiar with the controversy surrounding multiple screen names from the past is all.