Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355796)

For tail clearance. It's not just for me. That's what I'm trying to convey.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355796)

For tail clearance. It's not just for me. That's what I'm trying to convey.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355755)

I have gone back through this thread, and gathered what appear to be all of the legitimate questions that have been unanswered (I omitted what appeared to be rhetorical questions). Apologies to any forum members that posed questions I may have missed. It would be helpful to have direct, responsive answers to each of these questions:

(1) How long would your tour plane be at the dock, assuming back-to-back reservations? You have said the potential plan is to operate from 10am-7pm, with one flight per hour, and a half hour air time per flight. If that’s the case, are you not planning to be at the dock for approximately a half hour per flight (or close to a half hour) for safety briefings, loading, unloading, etc.? Please tell us how we got the math wrong here, and how much time you would be at the dock (assuming back-to-back reservations), and how you calculate to get to that amount of time.

(2) What do you plan to do to keep the space available? Specifically, what will happen if all the spots are filled when you come to land and there are no open docks for an hour? What happens to your next reservations?

(3) Would the reservations be sequential? If not, and there is a one or two hour gap between the end of one flight and the beginning of another flight, where would the seaplane go? Would it stay at the town dock?

(4) Where is the aircraft going to be kept when not being used in 19 mile bay?

(5) Where would your passenger customers park their vehicles while they are on your plane?

(6) Under your view of appropriate use of a town-owned wharf for commercial business, why shouldn’t a food truck be allowed to park on the wharf for half the day to sell to the public? Or permit a pontoon boat with an ice cream stand to tie up to the wharf? Is your position that commercial use of the dock is permissible by all and is on a daily first-come basis? (Your comparison to intermittent barge use has been extensively addressed above; a rehash of that isn’t helpful; it would be helpful to see where you draw the line on commercial use of town property)

(7) Have you thought of paying the town a per flight fee for use of dock space and guaranteeing a per day fee?

(8) Why don’t you run the sightseeing flights out of your base on Mirror Lake? You disparage town residents as having a “NIMBY” mindset. Are you not running this out of your base on Mirror Lake because you don’t want to upset your own neighbors running 8 flights out and 8 flights in per day? Or are you not permitted to use your residence for commercial operations?

(9) When is the hearing scheduled for or has it not been scheduled yet?

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355803)

Do you need a job? I'll hire you for my logistics manager. I know you are curious about how people run their companies, but do you wonder what other commercial operators do when they aren't picking up and dropping off at the pier? That's not a sarcastic question. Do you treat them with the same respect?

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355807)

These are entirely fair questions for a business that is seeking to use public property as its base of operations. Not a single business in this town or any other in the state is permitted to use public property in the manner you seek without a license, paying for it, having a contract with indemnification obligations to the municipality, and often providing a bond for the obligations since these types of operations are often undercapitalized (I’m not suggesting you are, but these are the issues diligence in public contracting involve).

And please, stop with the barge comparison. The barges use the wharf intermittently what, maybe an hour or two a week, as the public access for island residents, and have never to my knowledge displaced any other use of the dock. Nor are they based on the town dock. Your sole in-person interaction on land with your customers will be on the town dock. You are proposing to use the dock as a base for your business, as demonstrated by the math above that your plane would be there for 4-5 hours a day if fully booked, and even longer if not fully booked. Not all the barge companies combined, nor any member of the public, use the town wharf as extensively as you seek to. So, yes, when you are effectively asking the town to subsidize your business by providing you a business base for free, these are the types of questions you can expect.

And as for my employment status, I do fine for myself without asking the public to subsidize my business. Please stay on topic and be respectful, as I have tried to do here in posing legitimate questions and demonstrating the problems with your public positions and statements.

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355808)

So you do finally admit that there are people who use the dock for commercial purposes.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355810)

So you do finally admit your business will be based on town property?

As noted about five times previously, yes, there are INCIDENTAL commercial uses (Ctrl-F for incidental) by barges, island realtors, and probably many others no one sees and that do not interfere. You ignore the fundamental difference between incidental commercial use of public property and basing ones entire business off public property.

Another example. Photographers often take clients to public parks (eg Wolfeboro by the docks) to take pictures. That doesn’t mean a photographer can set up his or her office, studio, framing and printing facility in the gazebo there. That’s the difference between incidental commercial use, and basing a business on public property. I don’t think you’re confused about the difference, you just want the town and its residents to ignore it.

Originally Posted by DEJ (Post 355809)

Epic, when is the public hearing for your proposed business that you want to run from town property?

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355811)

Respectfully, Please site the law, regulation, or town ordinance that you are referring to please. I have done this...

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355814)

Respectfully, this is a pretty basic legal concept that you should have raised with a lawyer before you started all this. But since you asked, this is adopted in one form or another in virtually all states and municipalities. One example from the town of Tuftonboro that you really should have read before you started this “process”:

Tuftonboro Docking and Parking Ordinance (relevant excerpts):

C. UNION WHARF

THIS TOWN-OWNED WHARF AND BOAT LAUNCH FACILITY IS AVAILABLE FOR USE BY THE PUBLIC AS A TEMPORARY DOCKING AND BOAT LAUNCHING FACILITY. NO OVERNIGHT DOCKING IS ALLOWED...

CONSTRUCTION VEHICLES MAY USE UNION WHARF TO LOAD AND UNLOAD SUPPLIES AND MATERIAL FOR LAKESIDE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RESTRICTIONS SET FORTH HEREIN.

. . .

NO COMMERCIAL WATERCRAFT MAY USE OR DOCK AT A TOWN DOCK OR WHARF FOR MORE THAN ONE (1) HOUR . . . .


As you can see, the barges’ and other business incidental use of the wharf is expressly permitted by ordinance. As I noted previously, this should not be a surprise since barge use is necessary for town residents to inhabit the islands.

As you can also see, trying to use the dock as a base for your business for 4-5 hours per day is not permitted, and would require a change to the ordinance. So, this is not just an issue for a public hearing, this is a town meeting issue.

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355814)

NO COMMERCIAL WATERCRAFT MAY USE OR DOCK AT A TOWN DOCK OR WHARF FOR MORE THAN ONE (1) HOUR . . . .


As you can see, the barges’ and other business incidental use of the wharf is expressly permitted by ordinance. As I noted previously, this should not be a surprise since barge use is necessary for town residents to inhabit the islands.

As you can also see, trying to use the dock as a base for your business for 4-5 hours per day is not permitted, and would require a change to the ordinance. So, this is not just an issue for a public hearing, this is a town meeting issue.

Originally Posted by P-3 Guy (Post 355816)

In fairness to everyone, the rest of the sentence you quote form the Docking and Parking Ordinance says "...without written permission of the Town board of selectmen or its designee." So I don't think an ordinance change (or town meeting) would be required to allow a commercial watercraft to use the Union Wharf for more than one hour; written permission from the Board of Selectmen appears to be all that is needed.

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355818)

Yes, and that is clearly an exception for intermittent use, such as a barge needing an extra half hour on a random day. The general prohibition is against commercial use except for an hour. I’m fairly certain the selectmen would not view their authority to extend to permit a commercial enterprise to be based on the town dock by virtue of their ability to let a commercial vessel dock intermittently beyond one hour. What is being proposed is far beyond the limited exception the ordinance provides.

Originally Posted by P-3 Guy (Post 355820)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I see nothing in the ordinance language to indicate that written permission from the select board for commercial docking beyond one hour can only be a limited exception. Now, individual select persons may be reluctant to provide written permission that's as sweeping as Mr. Wood desires, but I don't think that the ordinance as written restricts the board from doing so.

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355746)

Sums it up perfectly...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMB...%20regulations.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by swnoel (Post 355831)

There's no reason you couldn't use that dock like everyone else does. Unfortunately ,there's not much civility left in this society... the bullies have decided they'll decide what's best for everyone whether you like it or not! I'm surprised you haven't been called a racists yet... course they've already told you you're not being discriminated against.

Originally Posted by Sundancer320 (Post 355841)

I watched the seaplane make it’s run today and went for a closer look. The plane will sit parallel to the dock 3/4 of the way down on the shallow side(right side as you look from shore) the wing crosses just past halfway across the wharf blocking quick access to the fire boat.

Originally Posted by P-3 Guy (Post 355843)

How high off the wharf was the wing? This is one of the things I was asking questions about (yet to be answered). Unless the plane is secured to the wharf nose in, either a wing or the empennage will be over the wharf and obstructing traffic the whole time the plane is alongside. No boat or barge is going to present that same problem. As much as Mr. Wood may claim otherwise, the commercial use of the wharf by a seaplane is not "just like" the commercial use of the wharf by a barge. It's completely apples to oranges, and in evaluating the use of the public wharf by a commercial seaplane operation, different considerations are justified.

Originally Posted by Sundancer320 (Post 355841)

I watched the seaplane make it’s run today and went for a closer look. The plane will sit parallel to the dock 3/4 of the way down on the shallow side(right side as you look from shore) the wing crosses just past halfway across the wharf blocking quick access to the fire boat. On its takeoff to the north he gets airborne directly across from the camps on Chase island just past the yellow boat house and then stays in ground effect (water effect to be precise) for about 200-300’ until it begins its climb reaching 300-500’ altitude past Chase. I see potential conflicts arising from this choke point as it is common for boats to speed around Chase heading for Pier 19 and it will be interesting to see how a floatplane in a critical phase of flight maneuvers away at low altitude to avoid an oncoming boat at 30 mph plus who won’t see the floatplane until it clears the corner.

Originally Posted by DEJ (Post 355851)

Good to see the wharf being used as it intended, island resident getting deliveries of stuff.

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355852)

The pictures of the barges aren’t even from today. Notice the different skies. More deception.

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355854)

Deception? So you are saying that those barges aren't real, and they weren't at the Pier? What does it matter today or this week? They were there these photos are real. Keep the conversation going. Thanks.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355857)

Nope, the barges are real and they are a necessary aspect of island living so that hundreds of Tuftonboro island residents can inhabit the islands and, in turn, provide significant tax revenue to the town. But they use the wharf what, an hour or two per week? In any event, their use of the wharf is expressly permitted by town ordinance.

Do you know what’s not real? Any right to use town property as a base for your tour/charter business.

Originally Posted by CowTimes (Post 355857)

Do you know what’s not real? Any right to use town property as a base for your tour/charter business.

Originally Posted by Epic Seaplane Adventures (Post 355849)

Hey guys! What a great safe day. 75 decibels were recorded from the 230 hp engine from the dock. Very wide and safe. Great proving run. Attachment 16997Attachment 16998Attachment 16999Attachment 17000

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Originally Posted by chasedawg (Post 355862)

Epic....! You should have not post this picture of your plane. Your plane wing goes 2/3 of the way across the wharf. No one who would want to unload or load their boat for island provisions would not be able to so. When the Tuftonboro Fire Chief sees these pictures he will express his concern with the town Selectmen like most town citizens are now doing.

And this is full pool high water level. When the water level drops Summer and into the Fall your plane wing would totally block access to the docks. You need to get smarter on hold you present your case. Go find another place to dock your plane. You are so tight with the store owners you should be putting your plane there or help them get permits to a new dock. But from I read the store owners will do whatever they please and fell entitled by not even obeying DES regulations. I feel concerned for you picking the wrong pony to ride.