That boat was made for it. It could transition from ice to water and back without skipping a beat. It wasn't a flat bottom Florida style. Sunset bob has some good pics of it in his album.

I heard something interesting this AM on the radio on the way to work. It had to do with a poll on legalizing gambling in a certain state and how support seemed uncertain and varied with education, college educated more in opposition than non college educated and blah blah blah but it struck me as funny, and I said to myself..."hey, they should only be polling gamblers...how can someone who has never gambled be allowed to decide such a matter" (according to Winni.com forum rules, of course):laugh::confused:

Sunset.. valid point.. A very good example... However, I feel that gambling is understood more so by the general public then a specific body of water that someone may have no experience with. Would you agree?

No analogy will be perfect, but it seems that some on the forum are unwilling to admit that swimmers, elderly people who may wish to just sit on the dock (my parents), people who live near the lake(and for that matter, all NH taxpayers because their taxes are affected by tourist dollars), ...really just about anyone in NH should have a say as well(and even kayakers and sailors:eek:).

Yes and No. I do agree all recreational users of this lake should have say. No matter what their favorite activities are. That is where I draw the line. I just don't see any validity to a poll that asks the question of a person who has absolutely no knowledge of the subject matter at hand other that what the polls leading questions led them to believe.

I used the “headlight use at night” example a while back. Any boater with any clue with regard to nighttime operation of a vessel understands how dangerous it would be to operate with “headlights” on the lake. However, I proposed that I could formulate a question in a poll that would most definitely return results that would favor nighttime headlight use as an issue of safety. If I were to poll the entire state of New Hampshire I am positive my numbers would reflect support of such a proposal. Conversely I believe that the educated recreational users of this lake would mostly return an emphatic NO to that silly question.

Resident: Hello?

Me: Good Evening Ma’am

Resident: Good Evening

Me: May I have a moment of your time?

Resident: Why, what is this about?

Me: Ma’am this is a poll regarding safety on our inland waterways.

Resident: Well of course I have time for that I am a concerned citizen that cares about safety.

Me: Good. Ma’am are you aware that there are no current laws on the books requiring boaters to use headlights at night while operating their boats.

Resident: Oh my goodness! There isn’t?

Me: Would you support a law that would require boaters to use headlights while they operate at night?

Resident: Of course I would! Why would they ever even think about not using headlights at night? That seems so dangerous.

Me: Thank you for your time Ma’am.

Sunset I would have to respectfully disagree with your analogy.

Polling gamblers to find out if they wanted the state to pass legislation to make gaming legal would be more like polling Winnfabs to find their views on the speed limit. :D

But seriously,

Gaming would have an effect on just about everyone in the state whereas the speed limits on Winnipesaukee effects only a small percentage of the population.

I think someone has to much time on their hands after spending 600+ hours boating on the lake this year, now that the boating season is some what over!:emb::emb::

Two dead in this one;
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...368981679.html

I agree, although this analogy was very good.

I will agree with you to a point that everyone in NH has a right to a say being taxpayers. However my issue is many also are unwilling to admit that this forum may give a better sample of individuals who understand the lake and the laws that govern it.

if you look at the number of people who have voted, it isn't even close. Now if you subtract out this phantom # of people that came in from other sites (which I believe is not true or if it is makes any signficant differenc), subtract out any duplicate votes, It still shows that predominantly it is not wanted IF you had to choose one way or the other.

Now that being said I do feel that after the compromise poll was shown that there are more people wanting a compromise then those wanting all or nothing.

As far as those you say (people on the dock, residents, etc) You have to look at how many people have voted! If you count up all the people who have contributed in the speed limit forums over the past 6 months it may account for 50 people at a max 100. You can't say that eveyone who voted does not represent people around the lake. Also, after the poll was done showing how fast your boat goes MOST people don't have a GFB or are directly effected. So why does their votes not count as part of those you say are not being counted.

You have said time and time again that those people on your road contribute to winnfabs and want the speed limit. Those on mine do not want them. Does that mean that I should think the majority of people on the whole lake does not want them? Absolutely not. There are different sections of the lake and cultures. Many people are attracted to those people with similar tastes and likes. This may be why your road are supporters and my opposers.

And here is another one: http://www.topix.com/forum/source/va...7PEUK030VHD8US

Fairly predictable, not terribly cerebral...if you don't like the message, call the messenger a troll.

Wow great article.. Almost scarey how right it is huh?

PS (not you sunset)

You are right Sunset, I should not have stooped to that level.

It is obvious by the frequency of Mr. Chase’s posts he is attempting to get the speed limit threads shut down and I should not have responded in that way.

Thank you for pointing that out.

January 28, 2008 - Melbourne, Australia

2005 - Missouri

Arizona...one more dead...it's happening all over the country...all over the world! Nobody is immune from the carnage;
http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2...d031110264.txt

Irrelevant.

Oh my god, "the sky is falling!"

In those same seven years, 264,764 people were killed in car accidents in the US. (986 in New Hampshire) What's your point? That we should be careful when boating in Sydney Harbor?

I wouldn't expect a intuitive response based on the logic.:cool:
And if you do get one, watch for the spin!:emb:

I've got to say, sounds like the same old refrain here...If alcohol was involved, speed has no bearing on the issue(but seriously, I don't want speed limits removed from our roads in NH just because a drunk might not obey them) and if the accident happened outside NH it couldn't possibly be relevant to NH. So the same goes for a SL on Winnipesaukee...so many people are happy to finally have a SL on the lake and don't want it removed just because "drunks don''t obey speed limits" (see my earlier post...drunks often obey speed limits to a fault and that's how they're picked up).

Please show us some statistics or a recent and relevant poll to support this..

I can show you one poll that is 75% against your statement above..



http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8420


Maybe if you said a few of us who think the lake is ours and not everyones are happy...I would agree with that...

#1 - A drunk captain going 40MPH approacing from your port side.
#2 - Sober captain going 50MPH approacing from your port side.
You're the stand on vessel. Which situation would you rather encounter on the lake?


Here is some great weekend reading. USCG stats on BUI and rec boating. Couldn't find any USCG statistics on speed????

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...on_of_bui.aspx

Again, I am being limited to 5 posts per day...this is number two;

This guy was thrown from his boat at 90MPH and SURVIVED!
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...6-33485552_ITM
I guess speed does not always kill.

Thanks for that link Ryan.

Gee, I wonder why???? Unlike your sailboat, this forum needs a bailing out after you flooded it.

Better pick your post wisely!;)

It's because you are flooding. It is considered extremely rude to anyone who reads the boards. Just an FYI.

Check out more of these FACTS.

USCG All accidents from 2008:

Speeds Accidents Percentage of total
Not Moving 917 20%
Under 10MPH 1,522 33%
10 to 20 MPH 1,064 23%
21 to 40 MPH 970 21%
Over 40 MPH 176 4%
Total 4,649

Wow Ryan! Facts not scare tactics and fear mongering. What ever will they say to that.:laugh:

Probably nothing. Just 5 posts per day of irrelevant BUI incidents!!!!!

Lakebound in 30 minutes.

I kind of feel bad for him though. Resorting to posting accidents from Canada, Australia, what's next? :laugh:

If we plotted these out on a chart I think we could all agree that we would be THRILLED with a speed safety record like that. I for one hope he DOES keep them coming it is actually helping to paint a clearer picture that our region has such a great safety record. Overall globally the record is pretty safe if he has to dig back 5+ years for most of these. Compare these numbers to auto fatalities and you would be staggered by how safe our waterways actually are. Thanks for the info el.

Seems to me that the Winni.com poll was thoroughly and credibly discredited a couple of weeks ago on this forum...some link to a site which described basics of polling(polling 101:) )that said self polls have no validity whatsoever...some heated discussion between ELchase and a teacher who didn't seem to believe in science. In any case, I'll put my trust in the ARG poll which seemed to be taken using valid and accepted statistical methodology and it seems to pretty much agree with what people feel along our shore and around town.

Wasn't the ARG poll conducted after a media campaign by WinFabs to "educate" the voter? Makes for the best poll money can buy, but seriously questions its validity.

Not true Sunset. You have your head in the sand. I have said that I put as much faith in the polls on this site as I do a statewide poll of people who have no idea what a boat looks like in person. You and others have deluded yourself into thinking that the users, vacationers and residents of this lake overwhelmingly support this law. You are so wrong it is scary.

You question my intelligence and my belief in science? Science? :confused: So you put your faith in that statewide poll? :confused: It is laughable.

My position has been stated so clearly a child could understand it. You and others continue to dismiss my intelligence over this. I could really care less but I will tell you that you guys look pretty silly hanging on to that statewide poll as your evidence for a speed limit on Winnipesaukee. The beauty here is I really don't even need to say much you do all the talking for me by admitting your faith in that poll.

To reiterate my position in plain English. I put as much faith in the polls here as I do in the statewide poll. What does that mean to those who need it spelled out in plain English? They both have big time major flaws. They both prove nearly nothing. Other than the fact that our polling sample is far more educated in the field of boating.

Anyway keep on deluding yourselves that people in the area support your silly law. I gave you an example a while back and I urge you to try it. *Note- this only works if you do not reveal your position.* Randomly ask as many people in the area as you can about the law. Over the last 6 months I have not spoken to more than ONE or TWO supporters of this law in person. :confused: Curious huh? Where are they all??? Are they all hanging with the Obama supporters???? :confused: Hiding in shame???
My unofficial polling sample included but was not limited to:
Gas Attendants, Waiters, Waitresses, Business Owners, Random Tavern Patrons, Neighbors, Marina Sales Staff, Marina Owners, Arcade Patrons, Car Show Attendees, Store Clerks etc. etc.

Where are all the supporters. I swear to GOD I could not find them. :confused::confused:

I certainly can't argue with you that your findings differ radically from mine. My neighbors, friends in town(many non lake front owners), and casual acquaintances pretty much are unamimous in their support for the SL. Sounds like you picked your venues carefully, and I admit I did not do my research in bars, arcades, car shows,or marinas cashing in on the GFBL's.

Gotta go now...I'm headed to Foxwood's where I'm taking an unofficial poll as to whether gambling should be made illegal.:laugh:;)

SOTD, you have no idea where Hnut conducted his personal poll, to state the following is childish and you are better than this: "I did not do my research in bars, arcades, car shows,or marinas cashing in on the GFBL's."


My personal poll showed without a doubt most think the speed limit is nonsense. I polled people who have experience boating on NH lakes, not just Winnipesaukee.

I'm sorry but where do you get off? You have no clue what type of establishments I frequent. Nice try at painting a picture of me slumming around the seedy side of town combing for answers from big scary GFBL owners hanging out in bars. What a joke. I conducted my informal polling at several reputable establishments in the area. I am first and foremost a family man with three very young children. In the interest of not rambling on and on I chose not to post the actual names of the establishments but now I will. Lets see how seedy these places are...

Hmmmmm
The Woodshed (oh the horror)
Funspot (Definitely a GFBL crowd there)
Castle in the Clouds Classic Car Show (ooohhh lots of performance boaters there)
Canoe Lounge (a.k.a bar and the crowd is a bit unruly, wear your leathers)
Shep Browns (I'm trying to think if they even SELL speed boats anymore?)
Channel Gas Docks (yeah the attendants make tons of $$$ off selling boats :laugh: )
Northeast side of Cow Island (lots of outlaws on the island)
The list goes on and it is quite extensive...


Sounds like you need to get out of your bubble Sunset and actually speak to strangers not your 3 or 4 friends and neighbors who support the law. I am not lying when I tell you I spoke with several I mean SEVERAL area workers, business owners, residents this summer at those and many many many more places and I just couldn't find all these supporters YOU claim exist. I swear it's like trying to find and Obama supporter. :laugh:

Nice try at deflection though sunset, I'll give you props for that.

Originally posted by Sunset
The poll is of members of this forum who are boaters on Lake Winnipesaukee. Limited in scope to only those that are impacted by the law? Yes. Discredited? Certainly not.
Originally posted by SunsetIf I recall correctly ARG has been discredited by professionals.

The actual poll that is telling is the one by the USCG that was linked to by Ryan showing only 4 percent of 2008 accidents in the entire country involve boats traveling at greater than 40 miles an hour. That means 96% of the accidents in the US involved boats traveling within the NH speed limits! Kind of falls into line with the NHMP snapshot of the lake when they found fewer than 1% of boats measured were exceeding the then proposed limits.

And just think, no one on our side had to search internationally to show that!

While I can understand that your parents might object to the "potential" sound associated with a boat going fast, I am at a loss as to why the speed of the boat they might see would be of particular concern while they sit on the dock. If anything it would be visible for a shorter period of time.

I've got to take my hat off to you Hazelnut for your boundless energy in conducting your unofficial poll all summer. You certainly are a man on a mission. What does the Mrs. think ("oh my god, here he goes again, god I can't wait until the new school year begins")?