He’s not at the dock when he’s taxiing. And safety briefings can occur when he’s taxiing. When do commercial airlines do their safety briefings? ��


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Taxiing and safety briefings don’t occur at the dock. They probably occur simultaneously, like on a commercial airplane. Why would you think half an hour of air time translates to half an hour on the dock?


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Interesting thread. And, I will give Mr. Epic credit for at least standing up and answering the questions, even if some of the answers seem a little skewed in his favor. It is also a credit that he is a long time town resident not an outsider trying to drop in, open a business, and change the rules.

A couple of questions:

1. What happens if you come back from a flight and there are no open docks for an hour?

2. Where is the aircraft going to be kept when not being used in 19 mile bay?

That’s a good question, which I have been asking all afternoon. My guess is that there are safety and liability issues that require the safety briefing before getting on the plane, given the noise in one of these vs a commercial plane. But I haven’t got a straight answer after asking the question several times as to how long the plane would be at the dock, assuming back-to-back reservations (and as others pointed out, that may not be the case)

This is a single pilot operation. The pilot will conduct the briefings before they leave the dock and will not be able to safely maneuver the plane while also trying to give a safety brief. My guess is once all passengers are at the plane, they will receive a 10 minute or so safety brief then load and go.

This is a good point. I will add that in all my years in Tuftonboro and regular use of the town wharf, I have seen a barge there less than a half dozen times. And never on the weekend, which is the busiest time for use of the wharf, and which would presumably be the same for prime operation of a charter/tour business.

I am in the process of having “No seaplanes at Union Wharf!” bumper stickers printed up. I will advise when they are available. We need to stop the for profit use of a town owned asset right now! Build your own damn dock!

And here’s another option for you, I know the Pier 19 Marina has an entire side of a dock finger they aren’t using. Why don’t you ask them for permission to use it?
Oh, that’s right, the Pier 19 Store is at war with their own association. She’s such a great business owner that she tried to block their access to their own docks! No thanks, we don’t need her entitled crap.

I think this venture has too much liability exposure to the town. All it takes is one clumsy, overweight, near sighted, inebriated etc... passenger to take a tumble off the plane/dock/float and get seriously injured for the town to be pulled into a lawsuit. I spent my life in aviation and a lot of time working around floatplanes. It can be hazardous..I don’t care how much training or experience an operator has. Sometimes they can’t control the unknown factor called “passenger”

Sorry your message is loud.... but not clear. Let's get the true facts. You came to the Tuftonboro Selectman with the Pier 19 store owner to basically asking help to start a business. I saw your live youtube presentation to the Selectmen. I heard your case. I heard the store owner pleading that this has to be done now. Like it was an entitlement to her. It appeared you are basically in a partnership with the store owner. Your timing couldn't have been worst. The store has unfortunately caused other recent controversy.

It you are so determined to start your business up with the store you should help the store get permits to build multiple docks along with her gas dock. Would you not need Aviation fuel? So have the Pier 19 store ask for permits to include fuel for seaplanes plus docks for her customers and yours. I then would consider your support for helping the store succeed.

Home town boy makes good
 

I'm embarrassed to think that a small NH town where a local guy grew up and went to HS, followed by extensive professional training, doesn't get local support. All he wants is to use one side of a dock that is little used because it's too shallow for many boats. If he were a dentist (nobody likes dentists) wouldn't you all support a local kid so you don't have to drive to Wolfeboro? Maybe all the whiners really aren't locals after all?
This really has nothing to do with where he will get his gas or how long he will be at the dock. That was all resolved at Mirror lake a long time ago. This is a local guy who wants to do business in a town where he grew up and all you locals should be helping him just the way you did when you paid for his public education. This is Tuftonborough. If your local kid wanted to start a local business, wouldn't you all want to hep the kid who played with your kids? In today's colloquialism "C'mon, man."

Descant, no one is preventing him from running his business, he can run it from his dock on mirror lake on his state approved water runway on mirror lake. We object to him using a town of tuftonboro property to base the business from. The wharf is town property and belongs to all residents, not just him.

So you can put it next to your " coexist" sticker.

I get it, you don't want Seaplanes there, but other commercial operations are completely fine.

Logical.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

You can keep saying it but it doesn't make it true...

I've already stated that the business is not based there and that I can pick up and drop off anywhere that it's legal. We just want equal access to the dock.

I think my position is very clear from what I have stated. Again there is a lot of emotion on this website and I appreciate that. The problem with the emotional argument is that there are too many examples of others using the pier for the exact reasons that you state is seaplane cannot come to the pier for. Again I state that AC plane can come to the pier. This is about lowering the dock post on the north side of the wharf.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

We will just have to agree to disagree. Use of the wharf would require modification of a town property for the reason of conducting a private business from it. Run your business from your private dock on mirror lake.

Sorry please tell me how this is any different than people coming up to the dock with a boat?

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Sums it up perfectly...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMB...%20regulations.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

You just keep digging yourself into a deeper hole. You came here for open discussion and now you are insulting us. I have no problem with your business just oppose you running it from a town owned resource. Run it from your own dock. When is the public hearing on this? I have asked you several times, do you know?

Does anyone here remember the Sea Plane that operated out of Paugus Bay back in the 1990's...?

I don't think they could make it work financially because the cost of the rides were such, and the business just ceased.

I am not sure what a half hour ride would cost today. Would Epic Seaplane like to comment on what he plans on charging each passenger for the scenic lake tour?


.

Fair enough. Do you oppose commercial barges being able to access the pier?

Epic Seaplane Adventures

I have stated my opinion on that question several times. When is the public hearing on your proposed modification of town property so your private business can use town property to operate from?

Your condescending attitude is not helping your cause very much.

That pretty much sums it up. The problem is that the social media factor can overpower reality and facts. If I had a dock in 19 Mile Bay, I’d offer it to you for a base. God help anyone that has the motivation, spirit and energy to start a new business around here that the Nimby’s don’t like (just ask the owners of the Dive). Give it hell, best of luck, and most of all: https://johncousins-68418.medium.com...m-7215236ad589

I have gone back through this thread, and gathered what appear to be all of the legitimate questions that have been unanswered (I omitted what appeared to be rhetorical questions). Apologies to any forum members that posed questions I may have missed. It would be helpful to have direct, responsive answers to each of these questions:

(1) How long would your tour plane be at the dock, assuming back-to-back reservations? You have said the potential plan is to operate from 10am-7pm, with one flight per hour, and a half hour air time per flight. If that’s the case, are you not planning to be at the dock for approximately a half hour per flight (or close to a half hour) for safety briefings, loading, unloading, etc.? Please tell us how we got the math wrong here, and how much time you would be at the dock (assuming back-to-back reservations), and how you calculate to get to that amount of time.

(2) What do you plan to do to keep the space available? Specifically, what will happen if all the spots are filled when you come to land and there are no open docks for an hour? What happens to your next reservations?

(3) Would the reservations be sequential? If not, and there is a one or two hour gap between the end of one flight and the beginning of another flight, where would the seaplane go? Would it stay at the town dock?

(4) Where is the aircraft going to be kept when not being used in 19 mile bay?

(5) Where would your passenger customers park their vehicles while they are on your plane?

(6) Under your view of appropriate use of a town-owned wharf for commercial business, why shouldn’t a food truck be allowed to park on the wharf for half the day to sell to the public? Or permit a pontoon boat with an ice cream stand to tie up to the wharf? Is your position that commercial use of the dock is permissible by all and is on a daily first-come basis? (Your comparison to intermittent barge use has been extensively addressed above; a rehash of that isn’t helpful; it would be helpful to see where you draw the line on commercial use of town property)

(7) Have you thought of paying the town a per flight fee for use of dock space and guaranteeing a per day fee?

(8) Why don’t you run the sightseeing flights out of your base on Mirror Lake? You disparage town residents as having a “NIMBY” mindset. Are you not running this out of your base on Mirror Lake because you don’t want to upset your own neighbors running 8 flights out and 8 flights in per day? Or are you not permitted to use your residence for commercial operations?

(9) When is the hearing scheduled for or has it not been scheduled yet?

We just want to be all inclusive, not single out anyone, or any business, and promote the town.

We live this town, we love this lake, and we love you too. I would never try to block access to a public pier. Not for a barge, a boat, an airboat (with a big scary propeller), not anyone...

I'm working with the town to have the dock posts lowered to allow for safer access to the dock for everyone. I'm sure the barge owners would love the posts lowered too. Loading and unloading equipment is very difficult with the dock posts so high.

This is a win for everyone and the town.

Even if the town decided that a commercial operator cannot access the pier we then shift directly to the access for a private owner so the issue doesn't go away at all.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Epic, for the sake of conversation what if the town says no to your proposed modification of the wharf posts so you can operate your scenic flights from town property?

Epic, if I were a cop, here’s the advice I’d give you: “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of public opinion, and at the Town’s hearings.” Apparently some of these people have way too much time on their hands, and seem to be playing “Town Official”. If it were me, I’d play submarine captain, call the diving officer and go silent and deep. Again, good luck.

That is good advice if one does not want to engage with the public and be transparent.

All good questions from CowTimes. I hope he answers these without throwing insults at us “rubes” who are just too emotional to see the brilliance of their plan.

The most important question is why not use Mirror Lake as the base? It’s a 30 second plane flight over Winnipesaukee and has considerable less boat traffic.

I think we all know the answer to that: the store owner wants traffic in her store and knows she won’t be able to use her own dock for it.

Engaging with the public is fine with the appropriate, moderated Town hearings, not on these social media forums.

Respectfully, Seaplane, if you watch the video of the last Selectmen’s meeting, you will see that the proponents are trying to push this through without a public town hearing. And the proponents affirmatively came on this forum to plead their case and are appropriately being pressed for answers to some very logical and basic questions.

This reminds me of
 

Skydive Laconia to some extent

Available soon

“You don’t like airplanes we get it.”

I think you should spend a little time retreading and editing before you post. My Dad had a 172 and some of the best times with him I remember were flights to remote airports for lunch, scenic flights in the fall to NH, ME, VT airports, flying to visit relatives in the Midwest, etc. I love airplanes.

The issue here has nothing to do with airplanes. It is your request to the town to make an accommodation for you so you can run your business from town property. I have yet to hear of any barge owner asking the town to cut down the tie posts so they could run their business from the dock.

I watched the selectmen’s meeting and was appalled when the store owner commented that someone could cut the tie posts in the middle of the night. Wow, that tells me all I need to know about your partner.

I wish you luck but, your prospects appear slimmer than Sisyphus pushing his rock up the mountain.


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Just so I'm clear, you're completely okay with private seaplanes coming to the wharf and cutting down the post for that?

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Facts, please. How high off the wharf do the posts currently extend? How high off the wharf do you want/need the posts to be? Do you want to shorten all posts, or only certain posts? Specifically, what is the reason that you want/need to shorten posts?

P.S. I like airplanes. See my avatar.

The posts are 4-5 feet high above the top of the dock. They are not supporting anything above the deck height. As low as possible down to deck height would be great, obviously leaving enough for boaters to tie to. However, that side of the pier doesn't get used by boats because it is too shallow and perfect for seaplanes.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

"As low as possible down to deck height... leaving enough for boaters to tie to." What is the maximum post height that would be acceptable to you?

Do you want to shorten all posts, or only certain posts?

Specifically, what is the reason that you want/need to shorten posts?

For tail clearance. It's not just for me. That's what I'm trying to convey.

Epic Seaplane Adventures

Barges pretty much use the shallow side of the wharf as the fireboat and fish and game boat block barges from using the deeper side that most boaters use. This time of year the shallower side is fine for most all boats as water level is at full pool right now. Different story later into the summer/fall. The barges do require that the posts be higher, surely if they were cut down to deck height they could not tie up.