Hey ELChase
 

Thought this forum is Winnipesaukee related? :confused:

Agreed... Again we should focus on the poll itself.

The numbers don't lie. I have counted up the people posting on this thread and you are really looking at a dozen people. That is a far cry from the overwhelming go fast crowd then the number of people who have voted..

#'s don't lie.

I am the BIL to APS. He describes me as the "Maytag Man", which I was until lasst year. Having the closer bedroom, we overheard the late night MP discussion and the speedboat. Which awoke everybody. APS previous description of the Marine Patrol stop is exact. He is checking with the Sergeant on duty at the time and should know in the next day or two if a summons was issued. We can confirm the stop exactly as he described here.

Originally posted by Neanderthal Thunder
Whether a summons was issued or not the stop would be in the incident log at Glendale if it actually occurred.

The Sergeant that was on duty remembers that MP stop that Friday night, and said "it would definitely be in the computer".

I called back today to find the Sergeant is on vacation. :rolleye2: However, I'll be checking back in about a week. The Sergeant has good reason to be attentive to this matter.

As to OCD's "3000-RPM blow-up", There are two boats I can give by name who also switch while running. The offender's boat is a Cris Craft. (Who left after Labor Day Weekend).

Why a visitor has to offend so many people, make so much noise and break laws relating to late-night behavior on our waters, I don't know.

Maybe he didn't have any firecrackers. :rolleye1: (Which are illegal to use in Wolfeboro).

A question if I may
 

Just curious but is your support for the SL due more to noise concerns or are you one of the terrified people afraid to venture out on the lake ?

Thats the problem. many speed limit activists use the speed limit as a means to start to pose restrictions on other "issues" they do not like. First step Speed, second cruisers, third above water exhaust, then PWC, then anything with a motor..... They want to bring the lake back to the day that there were no combustable engines anywhere to be seen.. Then they can start on something else..

Some people just have to have something to complain about!

Danger Will Robinson, Danger
 

Mebbe I should also consider the danger poised by planes dropping from the sky onto me or my camp while at the lake. I recall at least 2 Winni headlines along those lines. (more if we include helicopters and ultralights !) Seems to happen with about the same frequency as your aforementioned boats. Then again I had a Nissan SUV lose control on the road just 8' from my bedroom last month. Seems there's no end of the things to worry about ....


And I saw quite a few over the 25 MPH limit this past weekend. I wonder how many of those "discovering" their new boating are also wondering about how the number was scientifically arrived at. Oh wait it wasn't ....

Congratulations on the recent purchase!!!

Can you let me know where I can get a visitors pass to visit YOUR lake? :confused:

[QUOTE=Acres per Second;105622]
As to OCD's "3000-RPM blow-up", There are two boats I can give by name who also switch while running. The offender's boat is a Cris Craft. (Who left after Labor Day Weekend).

[QUOTE]

I would never claim I know of every after market product out there.. but after discussing this with 2 very reputable manufactorers and owners of the companies, they say they do not know of any for a high performance engine. There may be some for a non-performance models but that is not what I am referring to.

If you could APS, could you get me the name of the type of exhaust, manufactorer, anything??? Even the owners name or number? PM me if you would. I would love to get it. I will still keep my mufflers on but this way I don't bother the family or my infant son when I start the boat in the mornings.

Greatly appreciated. I look forward to your response seriously!

Captains Call
 

Well that dastardly well known GFBL manufacturer Chris-Craft :eek: .... errrr .... Chris-Craft ? :rolleye1: Oh well, C-C has a $2600 option for selectable exhaust which I believe is CORSAs "Captains Call". Maybe someone should tell Trexler's that it's illegal in NH.

I've seen those.. and no those are not designed to be switched over 2200 RPM's..

Now whether the person is doing it and causing damage may be another story all together but from my understanding there is no captains call, silient choice, switchable, selective exhaust for a HP engine at speed.

Again I implore APS to provide the manufactorer because I really really really want it...

Chris Craft has gone through some ownership changes over the years. But as I remember, the very first Miami Vice boat that Don Johnson drove in that show was a Chris Craft. They are in fact a very old go fast builder. They (whomever bought the brand), make some pretty fantastic looking ships nowadays, and very expensive.

http://www.chriscraft.com/index.php?...ory=SalesEvent


But a noisy boat isn't necessarily a go fast. Many are just 20' to 25 foot family boats that were ordered with outside exhaust.

I Didn't Vote...
 

When I find out next week, you'll find out. :)

Following widespread exhaust noise restrictions, PWC were probably the first watercraft to be legislated off the water—The Feds first, and locally, Wolfeboro's Lake Wentworth.

I don't know of any legislation—worldwide—affecting cruisers. :confused:

I learned yesterday (in addition to the color of the Sunapee kayak, still-more on the Eagle Island collision, and a whole bunch of other stuff) that the offender Friday night was given a "summons" for switchable exhaust. (A "ticket" for the rest of us).

The offender was warned about an arrest for ignoring the blue lights and siren. :eek:

The Chris-Craft was a guess on my part, since I saw (and heard) the CC on Saturday and Sunday with his exhaust—both noisy and quiet—on those two days respectively. It wasn't him, but a different visitor just a few doors away.

BTW I: Of one's homes, who here can be struck by a boat or a car? (Or an anchor). :(

BTW II: Now that our neighborly LAN has left Winnipesaukee for the season, my BIL has to use the Wolfeboro Library for his e-mails, etc.

He informed me that when he went to vote in this thread in favor of the SL, the Library's computer advised, :confused: :confused: :confused:

Let's Try This...
 

When I visit your neighborhood, I'm a visitor. :cool:

When you visit my neighborhood, you're a visitor. :cool:

If you go to the ocean (which is only one hour away), you're not "visiting". :)

APS I agree with you.. But I don't understand the ocean comment.

Also just a question.. Would you consider someone driving a boat on the lake that lives on the lake, however not in the bay you live in a visitor to "your" bay or area of the lake?

I think that is where some of the confusion is...

For example, if my friend brings his boat up for the weekend to stay at my house, then I would consider him a visitor to the lake for the weekend.

If the person has property in the lakes region then I would not consider that person a visitor to the lake. That is anywhere on the lake he is not a visitor. Now if he tied up to you dock then he is visiting you but not the lake.

Would you agree?

Translated for the rest of you.

APS's Brother in Law went to use the Wolfeboro Library computer to vote in this poll. When he tried he received a message that said:

"YOU HAVE ALREADY VOTED IN THIS POLL"

Then APS adds these faces : :confused::confused::confused:

So he is either

A: Confused that the library computer randomly blocked him
B: Confused because he feels that there is a conspiracy with people going to the Library and logging on to computers to skew the poll
C: Confused that his brother in law wasn't able to accomplish the above said task for his side of the poll
D: All of the above

:D:D:D

APS - What is the difference between your Brother-In-Law trying to vote in the poll or another resident of Wolfeboro who used the library computer to vote. Perhaps this person voted the way you would have voted?

If you are confused as to why he got the message you need to understand IP addresses and a bunch of other technical mumbo jumbo. The library likely has a fixed IP and someone at sometime logged onto a computer at the Library and voted. One way or the other mind you. Not necessarily in the affirmative. :D

Quick Question
 

On the switchable exhaust, I can understand why you shouldn't switch beyond a certain rpm. But can you keep them on the quieter setting at any speed, or must you turn them off?


It's a quandry I had when looking at a couple of boats. One dealer said Absolutely Not when I asked him if I could get one with an thru prop exhaust (quiet). I was just asking, not really in a buying mood. I do know that at certain HP, thru hulls are specified.

Having a law against switchables is quite silly, but now I understand that quiet exhaust pipes Can be added after the fact.

the single most obnoxious statement I have ever read on this forum!
 

WOW, that has to be the single most obnoxious statement I have ever read on this forum! I guess I should say statement(s), as you had the gall to say it TWICE!!! :fire:

The concept that lake Winnipesaukee is “OWNED” by some elite group is just appalling and flies in the face of everything AMERICAN.

What is wrong with “you people” that you can even envision something like that,,,

Is this the “New World” mentality???

Its no wonder we have so many idiotic laws passed, it’s the omniscient group mentality that someone knows whats better for EVERYONE, everyone else that is,,,

And either way they don’t really care, as they just want to change the rules to suit their preferences and too bad for anyone else,,,

As for the SL being “here to stay”, god help us all, because all I can think of is whats next,,, :confused:

Lake owners.
 

The state owns the lake. They are the real lake owners.

As far as waterfront owners. Who are the 'real owners', the ones with the biggest properties? They are the ones with the 'big toys'. Or the ones that have been on the lake longer. If that's the case, my family has been on the lake since 1892. We don't want stupid laws to tell us what to do. We just want people to use COMMON SENSE when they use our waters. I'm beginning to think this is too much to ask?????

If you say that is what you meant, I have no option but to take your word for it, but a day later to respond leaves a lot of time to think of a good explanation and your post did not come off at all as you explain above.

Thru hub is not offered on HP engines. (other then the one APS speaks of) all switchable exhaust I have ever researched is designed only for low RPMS. 1. you can't switch at speed 2. you are not supposed to have them on beyond 2000 rpms. Pretty much the best is for idle only. The boats I have been in that have them turn it off upon take off.

Let's get back on the subject.
 

I notice the 'flaming' by proponents got a lot of people voting against the speed limit. Which is good, but I wish emotions will not encourage people to make their decision. I am hoping I am wrong and everyone voted with what they feel makes sense.

I am waiting for Rep. Pilliod to file the amendment. As of now, he has not. The next step is to take this poll, the maximum speed poll, the minimum speed poll and the compromise poll and analyse the data to come up with the best compromise.

Having no speed limit is, I believe, is dead. This proposal was defeated in the last voting. So it makes sense that we make a compromise. That will send a message to the opponents the opponents are concerned about safety. I think we will have a better chance to raise the speed limit.

Don't be so sure that it is dead.... Keep in mind the history here.

1st the supporters wanted test zones. These zones data proved that speeding was not an issue. Their argument was that GFB just avoided these test zones.

2nd the supporters ask for the law to be enacted on the enitire lake for a period of 2 years so that it can be proven that there is a speeding issue. Also they pushed to have it linked to your MVR so that it had "consequence".

again to date no data shows there is a "speeding issue" only 1 ticket so far from what I have heard.

Now there is talk that they want to repeal the 2 year sunset provision because there isn't time to review the data....

How transparent can this be... They took small steps and used data as a ploy. Well I am hoping our Legislature sees through this as we have.

If the MP states it is not and issue and here is the data to prove it, then I can't see how or why the provision would be removed or the need for a compromise.

I had stated that I would entertain a compromise if needed however it may not be needed at all.

I have and still maintain my belief that there is no value to laws that have no impact. Thanks OCDACTIVE for such a logical progression of facts on the issue. Now if only the ill informed Pollyanna politicians were capable of rational thinking would I believe we can make some real progress after the 2 year project is completed.

Pollyanna politicians???:confused:

More importantly a law that has a "Perceived Effect." This is my biggest problem with the law and the supporters of the law. They use terms like the lake is quieter, and less busy, and safer in their arguments for a Speed Limit. I am sorry but Laws are enacted to curb a specific problem. This law has supporters because of the PERCEIVED side effects. That is ridiculous in my opinion. 1 ticket? No statistics? Just hearsay. If this were a courtroom it would be thrown out before the jury had a chance to hear the case.

Just my humble opinion

So, why can't the house and senate figure it out? Are they that foolish, or just a bunch of gullible ameteurs? It's a shame they have the powers they do.

Pollyanna politicians defined ....
 

Hi Kracken,

I liked the way the 2 words rhymed together. Here are the common literary definitions:

Pollyanna n. A person regarded as being foolishly or blindly optimistic.:rolleye2:

Politicians n. Persons involved in politics

Politicians n. My personal definition has become a group of big spending, self serving, tax evading, lying bassturds that bend the laws for their personal gain or benefits.

I believe the Pollyanna Politicians (the many that had no knowledge of the issue but still voted) optimistically passed this ineffective speed law and thought they were going to help. Now the pro SL supporters want to change the rules and declare victory after half of the test term complete. This is where I apply my definition of a politician.

Open Ocean vs. Inland Lakes
 

I had written:

That was paraphrased from another site where the moderator (with no dog in this debate) stated:

Just go out to the end of your dock in August and listen if you don't think the lake isn't quieter(even with gas $2.00/gal cheaper). And thank God you can go out fishing at the buoys without some GFBL screaming past you at 70 MPH just 150' from your anchored boat...that's not "perceived side effects"? And as far as 1 ticket, that's even more evidence that speed limits are working. No statistics? That from someone(a teacher) who has repeatedly shown no working knowledge of even the most rudimentary fundamentals of polling and it's statistical implications. People who use Winnipesaukee will not give up this quantum leap in the lake's quality of life.

Quantum leap? Why don't you lie down on the couch and tell the doctor all about it.:D

It's no wonder people like you don't want the sunset provision to wait for the data. Next year will kill you. Boat sales are already higher, used prices have climbed. I think you're enjoying the best of your solitude.

Come over here where it's almost always quiet, the fish are bigger, and the wind is better.

People on this forum know the statistics just fine. The trouble is with you, you're scared of the stats. You know tht between this year and next you'll be proven wrong, again. You also know that there's a real movement to help the MP get the boneheads off the lake or better trained.

People have come a long way since Littlefield, but obviously, not all. Don't be a knuckle dragger all your life, help out for a good cause.

Signed

A Good Samaritan

Hummm, unemployment at record high levels, gasoline at $3.00 gal on the water, worst summer weather in years, ya I would guess is a bit quieter,,,

Personally the only time I ever see any significant amount of high speed traffic (over 45 MPH) on the lake is Saturdays at the peak of the season and when the weather is very good. And if I'm not in the mood to deal with it, "I" stay home. I dont run out to rally a group of knuckleheads to support my cause to pass a law to outlaw whatever annoys me on any particular day.

I guess the other part of my problem with the whole speed limit issue is that I don’t automatically associate speed (over 45 MPH) with reckless operation.

There are days when the water is flat I can cruise the Merrimack River at 65 MPH and I have no issues with safety. There are other days when the wind is blowing that I have a tough ride on Winnipesaukee at 35 MPH.

Reckless operation has always been a problem everywhere there are boats and we already have regulations that deal with it. And though it is a bit of a subjective call if someone is operating unsafely, in my mind so is the concept of universal safe speed limits.

Some boats and operators can cruise at 70 MPH without incident, others are unsafe at ANY speed.

I think anyone can make the call that passing an anchored boat at "close distance" (say 50 feet) at 70 MPH is reckless operation, but what is a safe speed for all boats and operators under all conditions, well thats not so easy to define without illegitimately curtailing our freedoms.

Who among us is a legitimate expert in small powerboat marine safety??? I’m guessing no one,,,

I think you missed typed and either meant to shorten the 150' legal distance or maybe you are trying to suggest that you prefer to get back to nature with nothing but peace and quiet. Either way the lake is not a reserved haven for exclusive use of the few. It is one of the states greatest assets that attracts many from diverse cultural, economic, and view point differences. We are not trying not to judge how ones personal preference is better than anothers.

The lake being so large is unique since it can support such a vast array of sporting activities. Divers get a chance to test deep water, Sailers can let loose for long blows(can you tell I am not a sailer?), fishing for those that choose can be thrilling, and the surrounding towns have embraced all and encourage tourism. I don't see how we can allow a restrictive law exist that intends to eliminate a certain class of sportsman. I do not believe it is appropriate for our state to do this for this huge public resource. Safety is an issue, noise is already governed, and fear is controllable.

I believe this thread was an attempt to eliminate the statistical twisting that some of the previous surveys encountered. Should the speed limit stay or go? I do not believe it does any good so get rid of it. My opinion only.

And there are some nights when I can safely do 110 MPH on Rt. 95 (but I don't and I'm glad that for the most part neither do others).

I fully agree, but the 65 mph speed limit on Rt 95 does nothing to make the road safer, the roadway is safe because people operate safely.

I would similarly argue that the people who drive 45 mph on Rt 95 present as much of a threat as the ones who drive 110 mph, the issue is not any specific number, its reasonableness of the speed for the location, situation, and conditions. And I think thats even more the case for boats where you dont have specific striped lanes and other very detailed nav aids.

So again I would argue, speed limits do not ensure safety, safe operation is the key to success and no law can absolutely ensure either adherence to a speed limit or that any individual will operate safely.

At some level we all have to assume some risk in the use of boats, cars, hell just walking across the street can be risky. Life has risks, but piling law after law that restrict the many, in the name of appeasing the few rarely accomplishes anything except to further clog the legal system and deprive the citizens of their freedom.

Well that’s one persons opinion,,,

But then what do I know, I have "only" been accident and ticket free on the water for 45+ years,,,

I think you have "statistics" confused with poll results in this context. The statistics that others are referring to is the fact that there is no evidence of a speed problem on the lake, it is a perceived problem. How can I say this? Well, one statistic in particular shows that there has not been a single death on the lake that was directly caused by a high speed. Another statistic based on data gathered by the MP during the test period also led MP to conclude that speed was not a problem on the lake.

And to the bolded above, it may not be a "perceived" side effect, but it certainly could be a side effect of a speed limit. But you don't know that. One could argue that that particular side effect isn't even a side effect at all...it was one of the primary goals of implementing the speed limit.

While I see your premise to your arguement, however this is where your position goes off the rails.

1. the lake is quieter due to the economy nothing more. There have been story after story on WMUR that people have not see vacancy's like this in years and tourism is at one if its all time lows. Marinas have had terrible sales figures and resturants are also feeling the pinch. Showing that it is quieter not due to limits but lack of people of all boating types.

2. The winnfabs pushed for the speed limit test zones and were disappointed in the results. The MP stated on the floor of the House that the test zone data proved (as they had said all along) there is not a speeding problem on our big lake. It is lack of education and adherence to existing rules.

The winnfabs again argued that the reason there was little to no speeding was because the GFB just avoided the test zones. Now whether that was a ploy or not is irrelevant.

They then argued that if the "entire lake" had limits then we would see an entirely different set of statistial results (because GFB would have no where to hide).

Well now that still hasn't happened. And if you read back on threads even before the test zones it was said that what supporters would do, as soon as the data showed speeding was not a problem, is they would jump on their soap box and state: "Hey look how well they are working"

That may be your opinion and that is perfectly fine. However it was not the intention or the arguement made for the 2 year test period by the people that pushed for them.

The arguement was: Put them into effect and see how many we catch to make the lake safer. NOT, put them in effect and no one will speed.

So although you may "feel" safer, the reasoning of the supporters (winnfabs) has been proven wrong.

My personal opinion is that they had no intention of trying to prove anything with any data and either way they were going to push for 'permanent' limits.

Lets just hope that the Legislature can take of their blind folds and see this progression for themselves.

As HN said, laws are enacted to curb specific problems. Last year, with a faltering economy and $5 gas vs. this year with a faltering economy and $3 gas, the difference is like night and day...boats aren't screaming by you 150' from your fishing boat at 70 MPH and one can actually have a conversation on the dock. There are people all over the lake who feel this way, and as was pointed out before, some of them are our elected officials in Concord...they can see the results with their own eyes, they don't have to take anyone's word for it. As far as Winnfabs and pushing their "agenda", let's not forget the powerboat industry and NHRBA pushing theirs down our legislators throats...I'm happy the house and senate took off their blindfolds and recognized this.