That does not say it all. Boaters with slower boats are also unhappy at the class warfare strike in the false name of safety.

Why would someone need to make up a story about high speed boats going past Bear Island????

Boats go through the Bear Island NWZ at high speed EVERY DAY and EVERY NIGHT. If I called the Marine Patrol every time this happened I would be on the phone several times a day.

OK, this is only about 1% of the boats that go through the NWZ. But if you think this is not happening then you do not have a clue!

Funny thing, while I was typing this I just watched two PWCs go though full speed.

What?
 

Originally posted by APS
So the boat's exhaust woke you up and you could tell from the sound that he was "obviously exceeding the speed limit"?

He switched his exhaust to quiet and you're complaining? I don't have a boat with this kind of exhaust but I was under the impression that a switchable exhaust is not lawful in NH, so by making his boat quiet, possibly so he wouldn't disturb you, he broke the law.

At 11:47 your superhuman hearing once again came into play and you determined he was heading toward Cow Island, with his loud exhaust, at 25 miles an hour?

We don't need radar...we have APS!!!!

APS.. I have seen you make this statement in past threads complaining about noise and selective exhaust....

I am not saying your opinion on noise or speed is invalid, for everyone has the right to their opinion.

However when you say "he switched to his selective exhaust" this can not happen..

There is no "switchable" (not selective) exhaust out there for a GFB that can be switched at over 3000 RPM.. You would blow your motor. I have been looking into getting them for mine and have many friends who have them. (not on the lake mind you)... These are called "Captains Call, or Silent choice"

Both of which are the same thing and can only be activated under 3000 rpm's for the very expensive ones or 2200 rpms for the most common.

So if you would like to comment on how a loud fast boat woke you up... that is perfectly fine and you have every right to tell your story.. But lets not add drama to it.... ;)

I didn't think prisoners could vote either. Maybe there are some states with some exceptions but here is some info from Michigan. I would hardly describe el's comment as "making up lies". How do you know so much about prisoners voting rights?

Here's the story from Michigan:


Can someone convicted of a felony register and vote? Can a person confined in jail or prison register and vote?
MCL 168.492a reads: "A person confined in a jail, who is otherwise a qualified elector, prior to trial or sentence may, upon request, register under section 504. The person shall be deemed a resident of the city, township, and address at which he resided before confinement. A person while confined in a jail after being convicted and sentenced shall not be eligible to register."

MCL 168.758b reads: "A person who, in a court of this or another state or in a federal court, has been legally convicted and sentenced for a crime for which the penalty imposed is confinement in jail or prison shall not vote, offer to vote, attempt to vote, or be permitted to vote at an election while confined."

Given the above restrictions, a Michigan resident confined in jail or prison that is awaiting arraignment or trial is eligible to register and vote. A Michigan resident who is serving a sentence in jail or prison after conviction cannot register or vote during his or her period of confinement. After a Michigan resident who is serving a sentence in jail or prison is released, he or she is free to participate in elections without restriction.



SHAME ON YOU EL...YOU SHOULD HAVE QUALIFIED YOUR COMMENT. PRISONERS NOT YET CONVICTED CAN VOTE ABSENTEE. Oh brother. Hey el, didn't one of your posts say something to the effect that if you said August occurred in summer then people on this forum would find a way to disagree with you?

Wrong again buddy! http://www.idebate.org/debatabase/to...hp?topicID=515 "Only two US states (Maine and Vermont) permit prisoners to vote, although Utah and Massachusetts also did so until 1998 and 2000 respectively." While you guys are so quick to call everyone else a liar, you have no trouble just throwing anything out as fact and have been able to get away with it because you had chased all those who disagreed with you away. Start doing your homework, like I do, before you make things up.
I agree.
Exactly. Could not have said it better. Thanks.

It's sad that you can't understand this. If a drunk approached you and complained that he thought the DUI laws weren't doing anything and should be repealed to purge the statutes of a meaningless law, would you believe him? Would you be more appreciative of our DUI laws or less? If a guy in a big speedboat approached you and said "we don't need a speed limit...trust me, I'll behave. All I really care about is purging our statutes of meaningless laws" would you believe him? Want to by some magic beans?

:confused: You mean the kayakers and camp directors look down on the people in the Thundercult with their $200000 boats? This one went way over my head. Are people with minivans that believe in highway speed limits just practicing class warfare? This one is a real stretch. This is better than the "discrimination against a certain class of boater" theory.

Had a wonderful afternoon out there. There is nothing better to a sailor than a late summer westerly breeze across the Broads. I probably approached the speed limit myself a few times. Saw numerous patrol boats. Saw hundreds of boaters enjoying the lake. But never saw a single boat that looked to be breaking the SL law. What a great way to close out the best summer in years.

are you really trying to make this personal? I may not agree with your posts but I have not made any personal attacks. I will gather that this was just a razzing and let it pass. Otherwise I would suggest that you read the forum rules on keeping on topic.

What do Michigan laws have to do with New Hampshire or Lake Winnipesaukee and why is this post posted on the Lake Winnipesaukee web site?

I thought this site was for things that pertain to Lake Winnipesaukee and the New Hampshire lakes region. If there is a site for Lake Michigan, LakeMichigan.com, perhaps you can post this stuff there. It does not belong here. Please read the rules.

R2B

Glad to hear everyone had a great weekend.

How foolish of me...how could anything happening beyond our great state's borders have any relevance to the Granite State. My bad. I promise never again to bring up anything having to do with any state other than NH, especially New York (Lake George) and Maine (Long Lake, I have "NO PATIENCE" for that lake)!

elchase, did you pay attention to the content of my post? I do not operate a GFBL. My boat barely exceeds the 45mph daytime limit. I have three young children(9,6 &2). I have no hidden agenda here regarding GFBL's. My stand on the speed limit debate from day one has been that stronger (any actually) enforcement of the 150' rule and the right of way rules would make for a safer lake. Adding another law to the books when perfectly serviceable laws are left largely unenforced makes no sense to me. Unnecessary legislation is as wasteful as unnecessary litigation as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely correct, Rinkerfam! Unfortunately getting everyone on the same page is the difficult part.... I guess common sense is allocated instead of nourished, and some just don't have a clue. :look:

Rinker,

That is what most of us have been saying to El all along but for some reason:rolleye1: it is much easier for argument's sake to assume everyone who opposes a SL does so because we want to go faster than 45 (or 50 because the MP would have to give you that for wiggle room) instead of better enforcing the current laws you note.

I agree with the majority of you. Just because I have a Formula, the SL proponents think it is a GFBL. The silent thunder exhaust is one of the quietest in the industry. I only have a small block in a big heavy boat. I can just baely go fast enough to enjoy my sport of bare foot skiing.

It is well known that the next target is large cruisers. The proponents have been talking about that during the public hearings.

The biggest problem is the boneheads. Instead of addressing the problem they are compounding it with more laws. The SL law is expensive. Laser guns had to be bought and MPO's have to be extensively trained. Along with the budget cut, I can see why there is less patrolling on our waters. It is Bonehead territory! I don't feel safe at all this year. Labor day weekend is a disaster waiting to happen. I'm surprised that it was safe.

The SL law has merit. The reasonable and prudent clause as well as attaching the offense to the driver's license are reasonable additions.

Hey Vita,

Totally off topic, but just wondering what is the:

GSBQ Bowrider Club ?

Let me guess.


GO SLOW BE QUIET :laugh:

Really?



Absolutely. Yes I can.




Ridicule El?

You've simply reduced your arguments down to a single denominator. You have no facts, restate the same notions that many disagree with regarding safety this year, then you label anyone disagreeing with you a GFBL supporter. And routinely denigrate them and others on the lake.

All this time you are on the lake countless hours, and never witness the boneheads that others do. You seem to have the time on the lake, why not go to the NWZ at Bear Island and see what's going on over there. Today would be good since it's still a holiday weekend officially.

If you are right El, then absolutely nothing needs to be done again on the lake, it's all just fine now.

Nailed it
 

Steve nailed it! There is no real club but I thought it would help show that while there are some fast boats on the forum, the majority are not so fast family bowriders. Though I guess in the interest of full disclosure, I will have to admit that I hit my all time high of 47 Saturday.

I thought so as well... but I didn't want to speculate as to the meaning and thought it best to ask first...

47??? did you have your radar detector with you? :laugh:

I can see the headlines now "VITA CAUSES HORRORS ON THE BIG LAKE"

LMAO! :D

Glad you are boating.. I was up to my arms in oil and grease this weekend... Pulled the supercharger off and cleaned the entire engine compartment.. Getting her ready for her long tow to Virgina....

Still was a beautiful day yesterday to be working on the boat.. Got myself a few Landshark lagers and went to town....

Unfortunately this is very common with the other sides argument. If you look at Sunsets Posts at no point are they focused at anyone in particular but are based on opinon and he rationalizes his thoughts to make his points. He does a very good job at staying on topic and isn't here just to cause trouble. I applaud him for his methods. I may not agree with what he says but he is here to discuss in an objective and healthy manner. Cheers!

There are others that have an agenda and this poll does not help them in anyway. They only appear or troll when things are not going their way in hopes to hijack the thread or better yet get it shut down by getting people off track and bickering.

I implore people to stay on topic and discuss the poll as it was set up for.

If noise and exhaust is your issue I know there is a thread set up for that.

If the merits of the speed limit are what you would like to discuss there is a thread for that as well, as is a compromise thread, how fast your boat goes, Safety issues, etc.

Don't let trolls drag down particular threads and make them become un-useful, best to ignore and stay on track.

Carry on.. ;)

Yesterday
 

I hit 50 mph drafting ELChase's sailboat out on the Broads yesterday! LOL!

'BIG LAKE HORROR! GFBL CHASES SAILBOAT!' - TaDaSun

Heading back out in a few
 

It really has been a fabulous weekend for slow cruising so we will be back at it in Moultonborough Bay over to Lee's Mills this afternoon, so if you see us come by and say hi!

OCD, if you want to go slow, you can always hook up with us!

VERY NICE PIC!!! I may take you up on that someday.. I am actually working all day today.. Saving up for the engine, paint job and some really cool upgrades... (Stay tuned for details)

Really appreciate the offer though..

You will be going right by my house. Will tell my parents to wave.

Just for the record. I LOVE going slow. I have a pontoon boat and a fishing boat (both of which can not go over 45 mph)

I just don't like being told that by exceeding that will put people in danger etc etc... I don't need to go down the list of reasons for they have been beaten to death.

Happy boating.. Enjoy!

Beneath words and logic are emotional connections that largely direct how we use our words and logic.
Jane Roberts

Since there are people saying that there are fewer GFBLs on the lake, people are saying the lake is safer. It is pretty obvious what the goal of the speed limit was.

Next will be the cruisers.

After that will be PWCs.

What can they ban next?

Proponents' Real Agenda
 

Chip and all others,

It has been very clear to me for two years now that the pro speed limit minority have no real interest in safe boating. Their only objective is to restrict certain boats from the lake. They are all over GFBL boats now. If they win this battle, the PWC or cruisers will definately be next.

For the record, I have a bow rider that tops out at 47 MPH, but I have never gone over 40 MPH on Winnipesaukee. So, although I am completely opposed to the speed limit, I am not a GFBL boater. I respect the rights of all safe boaters and I respect freedom. Freedom is what this country was built on!

The Speed Limit push was not at all about safe boating. The Speed Limit proponents have a hidden agenda to remove certain type water craft from the lake. I used to go the the WinnFabs meetings when I was trying to decide were I was on this issue. It became very clear to me that their real objective was not at all about boating education and boating safety, but it was all about removing certain boats from the lake. Reading their posts on this forum, that becomes very clear.

To me, the proponent's actions are extremely un-American and their agenda has fooled the law makers of a great state with the motto "Live Free or Die". This is so hard to believe, but that is what has happened.

We, as one family, have decide to sell our water-front place on the lake and move on if this law becomes permanent. We want to live where freedom rings! We choose not to live with people who's only purpose is to restrict the rights of those they do not like.

That is clearly what is happening here and this has to be stopped.

R2B

I agree (though some who were forced to come to this country in chains in the holds of wooden sailing ships might not).
I don't think I follow what is so "un-American" about people who get together to use the state's legislative process to stop a small group of people who have hijacked and otherwise monopolized the lake. Doesn't seem all that different from the process people would use to stop any other behavior where the public benefit is at stake, say like legislating against dogs doing their business in the town park.
"Where freedom rings"? Sounds like your definition of freedom means being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want, regardless of other's rights. When you sell your water-front place, have you considered Somalia as a place that might meet your criteria?

This news elicits SEVEN Thank You's from your "friends"? Rather than try to enlighten you to the unreasonable extremity of your decision and try to convince you to reconsider, they are willing to let you jump on a grenade and are happy to sacrifice you for this noble cause with nothing but a "thank you for this useful post"? Good friends.
It's too bad though, if you really are one of those who boat safely, respect other boaters, and obey our boating laws (all of them), I wish you would reconsider. I would miss sharing the lake with you.

I do not think the thanks were for the last statement alone! They were for the total note that was painted by the posting. I do not like the idea that it takes laws to run and govern the lives of everyone. This is not a right vs left political issue in my mind. This is about control and ownership. This thread was to get a count of people for or against the current law. I am against it. Not a personal swipe at others opinions.

You are reading way to much between the lines of a simple "Thanks" for this posting! It does show how easy it is to jump to conclusions though.

Perhaps you are misconstruing what the "thank yous" were for. I doubt any of his "friends" are glad to see him leave Winni. Maybe you should read the rest of his post.

Glad to see everyone had a peaceful Labor Day weekend. I was appalled by what I witnessed this weekend on the water.

No less than seven near misses (two hits), and when I say near misses I mean misses by less than 10 feet.

The highlights:

Boats going 40+ with passengers sitting on the swim platform drinking beer.

Children on boats without PFD.

PWC operators without PFD.

3 women sunbathing on a motor hatch while the boat was on plain. (Sorry no picture).

A cruiser swamped a fishing boat exiting a no-wake zone at less than 15 feet.

A bowrider pulling two tubes with 3 kids in each tube and only the operator in the boat.

Jon Boat fishing in a channel hit by Cigarette boat (impact at no wake, no injury)

2 boats in a NWZ channel less than 10 feet apart doing 35+ with a Marine patrol officer 25 feet away. The officer was checking for milfoil stickers on docked boats and completely ignored the channel race going on behind him. This is what happens when Marine Patrol are instructed to enforce trivial laws that merely increase revenue for the state instead of laws that actually save lives.

These events all happened in Maine. People have referred to Winnipesakee as the “wild wild west”. This is simply not true, check the facts NH is one of the safest states for boating. Better than checking the facts, simply go to another state and watch. Not only is the Marine Patrol far superior to Maine, the boaters are as well. If the events listed above happened on Winni, they would have certainly been stopped by the MP but also I believe many Winni boaters would voice their concerns and explain to these Capt Bonehead Extremes what they were doing wrong. Yes some of the explanations would just be a half peace sign.

I think we should all chip in and send Elchase, APS, Turtleboy and Sunset to Maine for a weekend. Maybe when they came back their fears and concerns would be put into perspective.

I'm waiting for Those Guys ...to weigh in on the WolfeBoro Vintage Raceboat Regatta coming up. OMG. Gotta be Total Mortification. :D NB

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...&day=2009-9-16

Make that SEVEN including me. Smart individuals can read the post and thank him for his candor and honesty with regard to the real agendas of the opposition. We don't need you to twist the reason for their Thank You's. Once again elchase strike again, bend, twist, spin. :laugh: I'm surprised you didn't snip a small section to completely misrepresent the message. I guess there is still time though. :laugh: You do more for "our side" with every post. Keep up the good work. As it is most of your fellow supporters have distanced themselves from you quite a bit. Hear that? Those are crickets..... :laugh:

well, could always get more screen names :laugh::D:laugh:

If my "friend" announced he was moving away because of a law that he said does not apply to him anyway and is not doing anything, I'd give it more that a one-touch "Thank you". Your good buddy announced he is selling his home and moving away, and you guys never even made an attempt to discourage him or told him you'd miss him. Good friends.

No non-Winnipesaukee stuff. Read the rules.

No razzing. Read the rules.


No excessive use of Smilies. Read the rules.

How's that bomb shelter coming?

4302 members
 

On Winnipesaukee.com. I'm assuming maybe a quarter are active.

182 voted 'No speed limit'

67 voted '45 and 25'

My quess is the rest want some kind of speed limit but not 45/25.

This really make sense as there is no evidence that speed have to be limited to 45 or speed have to be limited to 25. I google for any backup to these numbers and fail to see any. Just because they use these numbers in other states does not mean it should apply in this state. Same to motorcycle helmets law and seat belt law.

are you serious elchase?
 

I have been reading the forum for a long time and have never seen anyone so capable in the art of goading people to get off topic. You are an expert at it elchase.

As I pointed out before I am against the speed limit. I am not sure where you let your perspectives come from but it not even close to talking about the speed law issue.

Please stop the carving of everyones posts and placing judgement on single words like "Thanks"!

Notice the lack of a smile.

Sorry I don't know how to do multi post like EL.. Wow for someone who just started here you are very very good at it. It's amazing how much one can pick up from the sidelines....

but:

How do you know we aren't talking to him outside of the forum. Private messages are available. no need to speculate.


Bomb Shelter??? HUH???

Elchase
 

Please accept my sincere apologies for talking about another lake. I was completely unaware that the rules of this forum forbid references to waterways outside the New Hampshire boarder. I understand ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking them and accept full responsibility for my actions. I should never use facts to try to compare and contrast when attempting to make a point. From this time forward I will just state my point of view without providing facts or examples. I guess this way of thinking may qualify me for a Czar position in the current administration.

you know what is ironic. when Sunset posted about michigan laws and someone asked that same question, sunset posted a similar response. back around post #90. I thought sunset was correct but I didn't see EL getting all upset when he did it... Guess the door only swings one way....