You must be think'n of a different 'Snake Dancer' because there's been one the last few summer's that is a large, white gfbl w/ a big long snake on its' hull, & it says 'Snake Dancer' in big letters on both sides of the hull next to a great big long wiggly snake. :cool: And, that Snake likes to go bomb'n thru the buoy 3 gut.

Fll
 

FLL,

Your post is entertaining. However, fear as a factor to create a law just does not hold water. You are using conjecture in your argument.

con·jec·ture /kənˈdʒɛktʃər/
–noun
1. the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
2. an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.

You are speculating that Snake Dancer will run you over. Snake dancer has not run you over. It has not been proven that Snake dancer WILL run you over. If Snake Dancer DOES run you over you yourself said that your "silver colored, fishing row-boat... basically blends into the water" At 45mph I might run you over in my bowrider.

You are AFRAID that he will run you over so we should make a law that he can't drive over 45? That is an extremely arbitrary argument. I have a fear of flying. I am afraid to fly. Planes actually HAVE crashed and KILLED people. Should we outlaw flight?

Well written, Hazelnut
 

Hazelnut . . . well written and quickly to the point . . . based upon FACT. Let's hope our Senators have the wisdom and courage to discuss and vote based upon objective information and not emotional stories.

Speed limit enforcement
 

I have been on this lake for over 40 years, I have never had a boat that would exceed 45 mph, and I have never had a "close encounter" with a speeding boat. I can not help but feel that the supporters of this bill have more than "boater's safety" on their agenda.

My question is this....Has anyone really thought out how this speed limit will be upheld in our courts?? If I was ticketed for a speeding violation on the lake, I would immediately appeal it to get a court hearing. I would then argue the point that how can I be expected to know how fast I was going when my boat does not, nor is required to have a speedometer.
I would be very surprised if that defense did not hold up in court.

This is going to be such a waste of time and money for our limited Marine Patrol and court personnel to deal with.

If the legislature really wants to make the lake safer, why not devote thier energies to stricter education and licensing requirements?? Has anyone ever seen some of the "daily Renters" that are operating rental boats on this lake after simply paying the rental charge and signing a form that says they know what they are doing??? To me that is a much more dangerous situation than the monority of boats that are on the lake exceeding 45 MPH

I have and I will give them as wide a berth as possible since you never know what they're going to do or what they're capable of. Here's my favorite example; who remembers the docks at Burger King in Paugus Bay? They're floaters, not fixed, so they're low on the water. I was there one day a few years ago and watched somone, either a day renter or newbie, I don't know, almost drive RIGHT OVER THE DOCK into the slip on the other side!! Yes, I exaggerate some; he actually drove the bow up onto the dock a foot or two before he cut power and the boat slipped back off the way it was driven on!! THAT'S the type of uneducated boater that's making the lake unsafe!!

How about the no wake area between Eagle and Governor Islands? How many boats have you seen going through there like the no-wake zone doesn't even exist? From my personal experience, maybe half will slow down but they're certainly not doing "no wake" speed. Do they care? Apparently not. This is just another example of an existing law that needs stronger enforcement and every time I see something like this, I think "I'm getting blamed (and others like me) for an unsafe lake just because I (we) own a performance boat."

I can't speak for anyone else, but the LAST thing I want to do is injure someone on the lake; I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did. I'm not rich and I have too much invested in my boat to risk damaging it so I'm going to do everything I can to stay out of harm's way AND keep safely away from other boaters, kayakers, canoeists, divers, swimmers, etc. so as to minimize the risk of injury to anyone else on the lake.

And yes, I do enjoy going fast but only when the conditions permit it.

Yes the Snake Dance I was referring to was yellow and Blue. I have not seen your white boat by that name...

Hazelnut

Lake Winnipesaukee is congested. It is a limited public resource and large, fast boats use up a disproportionately large amount of that resource. Camp directors have been keeping children off the lake at times because they feel it is unsafe. Many operators of small boats and unpowered craft feel intimidated, and unsafe.

Some operators of larger boats have the opinion that unpowered craft need to stay away from certain parts of the lake. This attitude is dangerous and unsupportable by law, fairness or common sense. It is however indicative of the problems on the lake.

Other states and other lakes have enacted speed limits. As this trend continues Winnipesaukee will become more attractive to high speed boating. Without a speed limit more and more high performance boats will be attracted to Winnipesaukee's "No Limits" attitude.

The lake is the drinking water supply for thousands of people. Although the lake meets the definition of pristine at this time, the water quality in our bays is dropping. The trend toward larger and faster boating is adding to this problem through pollution and erosion.

Tourism is vital to the economy of the lakes region. Many local hotels, restaurateurs and even marina operators complain that some people are staying away do to a general perception that the lake is unsafe, or less enjoyable. Failure of HB847 to be enacted can only add this this perception. And with tourism, perception is more powerful than reality.

A speed limit will be for the most part self enforcing as, over time, the worst "would be offenders" will boat elsewhere. Other lakes, within New Hampshire and without, have enacted speed limits with few enforcement problems. Squam and Lake George being prime examples. The Squam speed limit is working without special funding or enforcement.

My first choice for a solution to these problems would be a liberal horsepower limit. My second choice is a speed limit. Increased funding for education and enforcement are wonderful ideas. However funding is unsure and frankly unlikely. Limits will do the job quicker and more effectively, and will cost almost nothing.

The inconvenience this legislation will cause among the responsible performance boaters on the lake is unfortunate and regrettable but necessary.

Bravo
 

Bear Islander,

That was well said.

While I disagree with having a speed limit I do believe that something needs to be done to ensure the safety of everyone on the lake. I do believe that the lake has become overcrowded and at times dangerous.

My belief will and always will be that greater enforcement of the existing laws will cure all that ails the lake. We need to fund more officers to patrol more areas of the lake. I am not bothered by a Cigarette boat doing 85MPH across the broads. Those guys usually know when it is prudent to drive those speeds. The majority of the offenders "Captain Boneheads" drive bowriders, and runabouts. Trust me, I spent the entire summer on the lake and boated just about every day. The 150 foot rule is usually broken at 25-35MPH in congested areas. My biggest problem had to do with Bass boats last year. I had run ins with at least 10 last year. Sorry to stereotype but the first few times seemed coincidental after that it became a trend.

What seems backwards to me is that the biggest lake is being debated for a speed limit when smaller lakes will have none? Unfortunately this bill has so many supporters because they see it as a way to get rid of certain types of boats because they don't like them. It has no merit as a safety issue. It is truly a case of discrimination against one particular class. For example what if the lake had half as many boats on it regardless of type. What if the remaining boats were captained by courteous and careful individuals. Couldn't we all agree that would probably solve all these issues we discuss. You see it isn't the type of boat that is making it unsafe, it is the amount of boats and those who are behind the wheel. A speed limit is a back door loophole cop-out approach to solve a problem we ALL AGREE exists, unsafe conditions, not speed. Why can't the legislature actually do their job and come up with an equitable solution the does not discriminate against either side? I'd love to see safer conditions on the lake but I do not think that this is the answer.

Well said to both of you
 

Thank you Bear Islander and Hazelnut. I enjoyed both of your presentations very much. BI made suggestions to control the lake vessels' speeds, HN suggests better boater education and patrol enforcement. Both "corners" recognize the other's argument but obviously are committed to their cause.

Something we used to do in school at this point was to change sides and argue your opponent's position. Obviously the practice is to argue to win (not the try to see who hits the softest .. oops you win :laugh: )

Bear Islander...

Your a bit off base here with some of your assumptions.

1. While I agree that there can be a congestion issue on Lake Winnipesaukee, the congestion ONLY occurs in certain areas (Weirs, Alton Bay and between Bear Is and Meredith Neck) on nice summer weekends. The rest of the lake sees very little congestion even on the nicest of summer weekends. During the week the lake has very little boat traffic... even fewer during the off season!


2. There is a certain "Fear Factor" at work here. This is soley because you & WinnFabs type hype it up. There is no data to even remotely suggest that boating on Lake Winnipesaukee is at all unsafe. One (1) fatal accident in 5 years is a pretty exemplary safety record. The fact that there was alcohol involved in the accident on Lake Winnipesaukee (and the one in Long Lake in ME .11BAC) speaks volumes as to what the real issue should be. A drunk isn't going to care about a speed limit, any more than he cared about jumping behind the wheel drunk and driving away! Do really think it would make any of the victims families feel better if the offender was also slapped with a $50 speeding citation?

3. Prudence dictates that Camp Directors should monitor how the children in thier care use the lake. I would not rely on a speed limit to protect the kids in my care. I don't think taking the kids kayaking or swimming from island to island on a busy summer saturday/sunday is such a great idea. MTWTF swimming/kayaking trip might be a better plan. Perhaps even hire a MP detail to watch over the kids if a Sat/Sun excursion is necessary. Maybe even allow extended swim areas for summer camps? A speed limit will do nothing to protect summer campers. On another note, when was the last time a camper was hurt by a boat... speeding or otherwise? Please list the details where/when etc.... Inquiring minds want to know!

4. Large fast boats do not use up a disproportionately large amount of the lake. Quite frankly, there just aren't enough of them out there. The MP data showed just 3 boats out of 3800+ going faster than 60 MPH, 62 MPH to be exact. There were 7 speed zones, only 2 of them public knowledge.

5. Lake Winnipesaukee will not become more congested as time goes on. Quite frankly the lake is pretty much built out as far as boats go. There is precious little waterfront that hasn't already been built on, the state is reviewing the waterfront lease arrangement along the state owned RR ROW, the cities and towns are not letting the marinas expand thier rack storage, and the public launch facilities are small with very little parking. Where are these additional boats going to come from?

6. Lake Winnipesaukee will not become a more attractive destination for Hi-Performance boats just because other places have enacted speed limits. See my reasoning above... there are only a few places on the lake where you can put in and take out a large Hi-performance boat all of them private, and unless you are staying with a friend or at one of the hotels (NASWA, Christmas Is, Margate, Church Landing etc) there isn't anyplace to dock it! Of course, if you are staying at one of the hotels, then you are helping to support tourism. So there goes the Hi-Pperformance boats are bad for tourism theory! When was the last time you saw 10 people in kayaks paddle up to restaurant, go in, have a $500-600 meal then paddle away?

7. Pollution is an issue to be sure. But most Hi-Performance boats emit a fraction of the pollution emitted by a 20HP 2 stroke outboard. Your rocket ride will emit more pollutants into the atmosphere than all of the boats on Winni combined!


Woodsy

Bear Islander.

Being that my place looks across at Camp Lawrence and I see plenty of traffic in the area all day long I do not see speeding being the issue in my particular area. The open bay between Mark and Bear is clearly one of the more popular watersports spots on the lake, the Camp boat is out there every morning when the camp is in session taking kids waterskiing.

The main safety issue I see is people coming through the area that do not know what 150' looks like, or criss-crossing each other while towing skiers. I am surprised that the camp does not have more of a designated "stay-out" zone around it, as I have seen boats coming out of homes on Bear to the left of the camp cut very close to the beach.

I was sitting on my jet ski (stopped) with a few friends last season about 100' from shore and a clown cut in between myself and shore, he was towing a skier and yelled at me for being in his line! Being that he stayed approximately the same distance from shore upon leaving his place he was within 75' of the camp beach and further down the shore passed within 25' of me at best. For the record it was a yellow Sugar Sand Tango jet boat.

My point is that there are safety issues on the lake, but the speed limit won't fix it. How often have you seen 38' Fountains doing 80mph 100' from shore? Personally I wish they would invoke the NWZ that had been discussed as you round the corner of Mark. The markers are close together and with the field of rocks on the Bear side there is not enough space in my opinion for boats to pass safely at speed. We do see boats tear around the corner from time to time, I am more upset with how close people cut the corner. I have had people come inside or actually hit my moorings which are no more than 90' from shore.

For the record, I agree that speed is fun, when done safely and in the proper area. I am a speed junkie myself, although I do not own a boat faster than 55ish. In between the islands is no place for it, but in the broads have at it! I do agree with 25mph at night. I will admit that I have gone much faster in the Broads at night coming back from Alton, but would have no issue with a 25mph limit.

There are other solutions for safety on the lake. I would love to see no accidents, close calls, etc.. If the GFBL's are scaring people away, let them! It keeps crowding down... :D

Hazelnut

There are just two important points we can not agree on. Nobody is going to all this time, expense and trouble to pass a speed limit because they don't like a certain kind of boat. I can't make you guys believe that, but it's true. Why can't you just assume that most of the proponents want a speed limit for the same reasons I do?

I disagree that enforcing the existing laws and educating boaters will achieve a better lake. The worst offenders are unteachable. And huge increases in education and enforcement just are not going to happen. I prefer to go with a solution that actually will work, instead of one that is a nice idea but virtually impossible to achieve.

Woodsy

You arguments are so one sided and unrealistic, I hardly know how to respond.

As one example you idea that children's camps should hire Marine Patrol details to protect their children from power boats is completely INSANE!!! I would email it to every Senator as an example of where the opposition thinking is going, but truthfully it's so bizarre I think they would take it for a joke.

You ask when was the last time a camper was harmed by a speeding boat. They are harmed every time they can't go out in a boat because the people responsible for their safety will not take the risk. Perhaps when people are enjoying their 1,500 horsepower ride down the lake they should think about how many small children they are keeping on shore.

Bear Islander
 

I'm sorry but you can not make me believe it because you say it in your own argument:

Quote: "(The Lake).. is a limited public resource and large, fast boats use up a disproportionately large amount of that resource....Many operators of small boats and unpowered craft feel intimidated, and unsafe.

This is a direct quote from your own statement as to why you support the bill. This is your statement. Am I missing something. I'm not trying t to be rude here but this crux of your argument. Fast boats use up too much of the resource, therefore we must rid the lake of them. You yourself pitted the small boats vs the big boats in your own argument.

Please explain how you can then go on to say, "Nobody is going to all this time, expense and trouble to pass a speed limit because they don't like a certain kind of boat." Just 5 posts later?

Other direct quotes:
"As this trend continues Winnipesaukee will become more attractive to high speed boating. Without a speed limit more and more high performance boats will be attracted to Winnipesaukee..."
and:
"The trend toward larger and faster boating is adding to this problem through pollution and erosion."

Again your argument is against certain types of boats that you do not want on the water. Big fast boats are now to blame for erosion and pollution. Not the 45 foot Carver that makes 4 foot waves?

I'm not saying you don't LIKE a certain kind of boat I am saying you are discriminating against a certain type of boat. Your argument blames the boat not the driver. That is a flawed argument in my eyes.

Evenstar, you tell us about your expertise, you make it sound like you have years of experience on the lake when in fact you have hours of experience on the lake, now you tell us you are an excellent judge of distance and speed.

I am indeed growing tired of our exchanges. I'm actually starting to feel a little bad for you, for if you feel quoting your own words and showing problems with the words is a personal attack, you have lead a very charmed and sheltered life.......

There is only one word to describe what you read. "Sensationalism"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensationalism

It's works in papers.
Worked in the House.
Time will tell if it works in the Senate.

Feel free to quote from the above link, it accurately describes what we're experiencing.

I can love a wildflower, but when one grows in my lawn I will kill it. That doesn't mean I hate it, it's just in the wrong place.

Many high performance boats are beautiful, I even like the sound (except late at night) but if they disrupt children's camps, pollute my drinking water or endanger tourism, then they need to go.

I have explained to you the damage I believe the increasing numbers of larger faster boats are doing to the lake I love. I'm sorry, but it's time to go.

It's not about hatred or dislike, it's about them being in the wrong place.

I will reference two old movies "Old Yeller" and "The Yearling".

All you want to do is tear my posts apart in an attempt to misquote me. Misquoting is changing the meaning of what I wrote or taking it out of context.

Why can't you just accept that other people have had different experiences than you? To you, someone must be lying, unless they see things exactly as you. Guess what? We're all different (thank God), and everyone is entitled to thier own opinion.

My ability to judge distance and speed has been tested - so this is not just a claim. I've explained all this before: I suffered a severe head injury to the left side of my brain when I was little, because of this the right side of my brain became overdeveloped – I test “off the charts” in spatial awareness. So I tend to be pretty accurate in being able to estimate things like speed and distance. That’s because I can only think in images.

Plus I have spent a great deal of time on Squam, where the fastest boats consistently push the 40mph limit – so I have a pretty good idea what 45 mph looks like. And I know what 150 feet looks like. If a speeding boat is less than 9 of my kayak lengths from me - they are too close. And I have had highspeed boats on Winni come within less than 5 kayak lengths, before they appeared to notice me.

There has been nothing "charmed" about my life. I have had a very difficult life. Although I will admit that I was very sheltered for many years.

I Guess
 

My opinion, I too love the look and the sound of a performance boat, in the proper setting. When they held the races on the broads I was there front and center, loving every minute of it.
However, It does not thrill me to have them zipping by my house with loud exhaust preventing normal conversation. I have noticed that through increased law enforcement the real loud boats are becoming fewer and fewer. That is a good example of better enforcement of current laws in effect.

With that said this Speed Limit bill is disguising itself as a "Safety Measure" that will help make the lake safer. Safer than what? No accidents attributed to speed ever? The real agenda is ridding the lake of what some percieve as undesirable.

You make no excuses for that with your comment. I appreciate your honesty on that. However, it all seems a bit biased. The whole "Let's get rid of these loud fast boats even though they haven't done anything wrong, we just think they are too loud and there are too many of them."

You are an Islander, so am I. What if the mainlanders got enough people together to lead a charge to rid the lake of excess boat traffic by limiting Islanders access? They could claim we traverse back and forth too much using too more than our fair share of the resource. After all I don't think it would be hard to convince some minds that Islanders boat more than most of the boating public, agree? So what if by some convoluted, crazy manor some mainlander was able to get the ear of some State Rep to write up a bill. Now equating this to the Speed Limit bill it would have to be an arbitrary bill that doesn't address the actual problem so instead of coming right out and saying we want to get rid of Islanders it would be something to the effect of, a HUGE TAX on Island homeowners that own boats or something to that effect. Like a toll or a usage fee. It would only apply to Island homeowners and the proponents would argue that we use the lake more we "take up more space" going back and forth. We should pay more of the taxes to use that resource. After all we Islanders add to that congestion more than most don't we? I have put you on the other side of the argument now Bear Islander. I don't agree with what I have just posted, I could argue that I use the lake less than most mainlanders but I could NEVER convince them of that because they would throw it in my face that I must use it more because I have to get back and forth.

Remember people are being directly and arbitrarily affected by this Bill. Just because you and the Bill supporters "feel" that these boats don't belong here.

If you are referring to Hillary in that article, then you and I will see eye to eye on very little I'm afraid.:)

Hmmm, and who is to blame if your access has been limited?????:eek:

This is your opinion APS, stated as fact. I actually thought the study was a good idea when I heard about it because I knew the reports of fast boats, mayhem and the wild west were wrong, or sensationalism. A study/survery like this apparently frightened the people who knew they were exagerating to get their way, hence the frenzied effort to discredit it and even prevent it from being published.

Actually a quote and link would be nice. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some MP officers are boaters too???

Unpaid volunteer = Marine Patrol Auxiliary member Ray Petty

You know, why is every line you write carefully crafted to give the wrong impression to a reader? The truth shall set you free my friend. An auxiliary officer is hardly a schmoe off the street. In fact I'm willing to bet they even have some police type powers.

Already covered this, had results not been thrown out you still would have complained, about cosine error. And in that case it would be justified, now it is not. Who said this survey wasn't well designed.

Why yes it does contradict the Director, he estimated 15% were travelling over 45 mph, when in FACT only 0.9% were. It's amazing what you learn when you study. This unprecedented study show that the people talking about mayhem, wild west, speeding boats everywhere were at best mistaken, at their worst liars.


I've only seen the two proposed speed limit areas advertised, where I believe less than 30 % of the readings were taken. The other areas were not advertised to my knowledge, if they were show me.

Some of your links don't work, is that by design????

Not for the same reason, but in Nashua people were prohibited from using their island homes because the only access was cut-off by water. The fire department said if we can't get our trucks there, you can't live there. Imagine if the state fire marshal had the same thought. How can they protect the children on the islands from fire and injury if they can't get fire truck or ambulances there? For safety reasons you may not be allowed to live there.

Now that would be a stupid law with no evidence to back up the dangers and only driven by irrational fear of a statistically improbable event. But what about the children...

Those Nashua islanders should have bought themselves a big twin engine fire boat, portable Indian Pumps and received firefighting training like the residents of Bear Island did.

Excellent Analogy
 

jrc,

Excellent post. It further solidifies my point. Imagine that Bear Islander? A foolish law enacted preventing us from using our Island Homes? Based on fear mongering and no real fact? People dreaming up scenarios that "could" or "might" happen.

This is your idea of compromising with Nature?

Sounds like your idea of compromise with the proponents is the old saying, "My way or the highway! (and good riddance)"

P.S.- Lady Bird would very disappointed in your viewpoint toward wildflowers.

Sorry, not a good analogy at all. You have already admitted a problem exists on the lake, we only differ on the solution.

Remember earlier in this thread when Dick posted..

"Any camp director who would allow the kids to swim beyond the swim line buoys or take a canoe out onto the big lake should be fired immediately."

It seems like Dick also sees the danger.

If I ever get an inkling that living on the island is endangering my child, I will leave immediately, no legislation will be required.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out even if there were no other boats on the lake , simply for the rescue distance in case of a mishap.

A belief in something doesn't make it true
 

Please provide proof that performance boats are polluting the drinking water any more than other motorized watercraft. For that matter, prove that they pollute the water more than waterfront homes and businesses.

With regard to affecting tourism, I've seen a proportionate number of every motorized type having a negative effect on my boating experience. Where is your proof that performance boats are affecting tourism at a disproportionate rate?

Our emergency response time is good. Several 911 calls have been made from the island in recent years, one from our home. The Marine Patrol usually arrives first, the fire boat is not far behind. There must be many homes in Meredith and the surrounding area, that due to their remote location have longer response times than the islands. From the Fire Station to my cabin is less than four miles.

True
 

So we agree there is a problem of congestion, and dangerous behavior right?

Let's simplify the debate even further:

Bear Islander and all supporters of the HB in question please answer a simple yes or no to the following question. No adjective, description, comment, argument just a simple y/n or if you prefer yes/no.

The biggest problem on the lake today is that boats are speeding. Yes or No


My answer = NO!

No










.....

Or they could repair the access, like they did. But of course that's not the point.

BTW you do realize that acording to the USCG, NH boat registrations have been nearly flat or decreasing over the last few years. So the overcrowding rational is bunk. There are only about 2% more boats today than 5 years ago.

The lake was overcrowded 5 years ago. We have been arguing speed limits for 3. And a 2% increase is an increase.

How have the registration of longer boats changed?

If I sold my bow rider and purchased a Nor-Tech last year, how does that effect those numbers? IT DOESN'T!

Kudos
 

Bear Islander,

I do appreciate your honesty. I believe you are a reasonable person who is frustrated with the state of things on the lake. We share common ground with regard to our feelings about safety on the lake. As you have stated we just disagree on the solution. I do not expect to convert you. It's a shame it has come to this. I know you think that there is a light at the end of the tunnel with a speed limit. I really do not believe that a speed limit will solve anything. Education and enforcement is the answer.

Side note: is this truly a partisan issue? Are you a democrat ;)

First, I never made that claim. But more importantly, why don't YOU prove that performance boats pollute less.

The proof that tourism is being effected is in the below list of speed limit supporters. You will note many are tourist related. There are even several marinas in there. Including marinas that sell large fast boats.

The Common Man
Ashalnd Insurance
Strictly Rentals
Wild Meadow Canoes and Kayaks
Centre Harbor Cellars
Center Harbor Inn
AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)
NH Audubon
New Hampshire Lakes Association (NHLA)
Decker Machinery Company
The Architectural Studio
Fay’s Boat Yard
Birch Island Camp Association
Gilford Islands Association (GIA)
Jolly Island Association
Lockes Island Association
Belknap Landscaping Company
Design Quest
DK Net Design
E&S Insurance LLC
The Hair Factory
Mike’s Ala Carte Catering
Pepi Herrmann Crystal, Inc.
Glendale Marine
River Edge Marina
Squam Lakes Association (SLA)
Cottage Place on Squam Lake
Squam Lake Inn
Me Designs
Barrons Billiards
Blooms Vanity
J&J Printing
LaBelles Shoe Store
Central & Northern Title
Haughey, Philpot & Laurent
Lakeside Hotel Assoc.
Sundial Shops
Paugus Bay Marina
Best Western Silver Fox Inn
Griffin Bodi Krause
Municipal Resources, Inc.
Great Northern Trading Co
Meredith Marina
Y-Landing
Bear Island Conservation Association (BICA)
East Bear Island Conservation Association
AMC- 3 Mile Island
Winnipesaukee Rowing Club
Alexandria Lamp Shop
Case N’ Keg
Chris Dupont Painting
Christopher P. Williams, Architects
Eisenberg Chiropractic
Hawkins Photography
Hobo Railroad
Landscapes By Tom
League of NH Craftsmen
Mastiff Builders
Omni Signs
Patricia’s “Specially for You”
Pemi Glass Company
Pretty Petunias Garden Center
Remax Bay Side Real Estate
Remcon/North
Sagecliff Software, Inc.
The Village Perk
Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad
GASCO Realty, LLC
51 Main Street, LLc
Inns & Spa at Mill Falls
Meredith Bay Painting
The Lake House Grille
Lago
Camp
Town Docks Restaurant
Mame's
The Gallery at Mill Falls
Oglethorp
Guiseppies Resturant
Northern Air Trading
Lady of the Lake Clothing
Adorments
Creative Clothing
Christopher P. Williams, Architect
Oak Street Associates
Old Mill Insurance
Innisfree Bookstore
Phoenix Leasing, Inc.
Silver Top Ventures
Minuteman Plumbing & Heating
Sava Designs
Horn Insurance
Harts Restaurant
Fermentation Station LLC
Hunter's
Waukewan Antiques
Village Greenery
Etcetera Shop
Associated Surveyors
Moulton Farm
Barber Pole Association
Trexler’s Marina
Land’s End
Wyman Trail Association
Loon Preservation Committee
1st T Development Corporation
The Woodshed Restaurant
Castle in the Clouds
Amoskeg Insurance
EPTAM Plastics
The Common Man Inn
Corner House Inn
Seacoast Kayak
Tilton Veterinary Hospital
Waterville Valley Condo Rental
Thurston’s Marina
Lighthouse Inn
Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages
Van's Hotel Enterprises
Wolfboro Inn
Island Real Estate of New Hampshire
LB Boat Restoration
Millie B
Wolfeboro Trolley Company
Wolfetrap Restaurant

No







...

The list
 

While that list represents individual businesses that support the Speed Limit it absolutely DOES NOT represent PROOF that tourism is being affected by fast boats. That my friend is one gigantic leap.

The point is not if they think tourism if effected by fast boats.

The point is that they support a speed limit. And that, in my opinion, constitutes all the proof necessary. Many of these business are run by good old American Yankees, (the good kind, not the baseball kind). They know which side of the bread is buttered (and other euphemisms like that).

I'll finish this up then bow out of this thread until new data arrives. I will never convince BI and he will not scare me. It's like trying to convince my wife that polar bears don't eat penquins. They look so tasty why wouldn't they eat them.

That's the list of places that supported HB -161 three years ago, that is not a list of places who currently support a speed limit.

So to finish lets look at the last twenty years. The boat registrations in NH grew about 2% a year since 1988. Around 2002 they flatenned and then started shrinking about 2% a year. This is also true at the national level. (don't buy boat stocks) There are now double the amount of PWC sold as in 1988. Since PWC are a large portion of the total number of registered boats, I would have to reason that there has to be less non-pwc boats. Otherwise we would have more total growth.

I don't know what a Nor-tech is, I'm into comfort not speed. The USCG stats do differentiate between engine type and length but the stats are presented differently each year so trends are hard to follow. If you get past banning fast boats and get to banning big boats, it might be worth the trouble to ferret out the data and plot it.

Now maybe the USCG fudged all this data just so they can get jobs in the boating industry. Sounds silly, huh?

Love this list.
 

Here is how I dissect this list.

See the bold for explanation, My favorite is how all the Great American dining establishments are listed individually. There are 6 Alex Ray places, that should only count once! Many others in Bold are tenants of Rusty McClear, and I asked at least one when this list came out why they were on it. I was told she didn't feel she had a choice!

I could go on and on. But the bottom line is this list is a joke, most of it is repeats, and some businesses didn't even know they were listed. If anyone wants I can go into more details!




The Common Man 1.
Ashalnd Insurance
Strictly Rentals
Wild Meadow Canoes and Kayaks
Centre Harbor Cellars
Center Harbor Inn
AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)
NH Audubon
New Hampshire Lakes Association (NHLA)
Decker Machinery Company
The Architectural Studio
Fay’s Boat Yard
Birch Island Camp Association
Gilford Islands Association (GIA)
Jolly Island Association
Lockes Island Association
Belknap Landscaping Company
Design Quest
DK Net Design
E&S Insurance LLC
The Hair Factory
Mike’s Ala Carte Catering
Pepi Herrmann Crystal, Inc.
Glendale Marine
River Edge Marina
Squam Lakes Association (SLA)
Cottage Place on Squam Lake
Squam Lake Inn
Me Designs
Barrons Billiards
Blooms Vanity
J&J Printing
LaBelles Shoe Store
Central & Northern Title
Haughey, Philpot & Laurent
Lakeside Hotel Assoc.
Sundial Shops
Paugus Bay Marina
Best Western Silver Fox Inn
Griffin Bodi Krause
Municipal Resources, Inc.
Great Northern Trading Co Rusty tenant
Meredith Marina
Y-Landing = Were not aware they were listed. Call them and ask now!
Bear Island Conservation Association (BICA)
East Bear Island Conservation Association
AMC- 3 Mile Island
Winnipesaukee Rowing Club
Alexandria Lamp Shop
Case N’ Keg
Chris Dupont Painting
Christopher P. Williams, Architects
Eisenberg Chiropractic
Hawkins Photography

Landscapes By Tom
League of NH Craftsmen
Mastiff Builders
Omni Signs
Patricia’s “Specially for You”
Pemi Glass Company
Pretty Petunias Garden Center
Remax Bay Side Real Estate
Remcon/North
Sagecliff Software, Inc.
The Village Perk
Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad + Hobo Railroad Same owner!!!!!
GASCO Realty, LLC
51 Main Street, LLc
Inns & Spa at Mill Falls Rusty again
Meredith Bay Painting
The Lake House Grille 2.
Lago 3.
Camp 4.
Town Docks Restaurant 5. Alex ray
Mame's
The Gallery at Mill Falls Rusty again
Oglethorp
Guiseppies Resturant Felt threatened by landlord (Ask Julie I did)
Northern Air Trading
Lady of the Lake Clothing
Adorments Rusty tenants
Creative Clothing
Christopher P. Williams, Architect
Oak Street Associates
Old Mill Insurance
Innisfree Bookstore Rusty tenant
Phoenix Leasing, Inc. Another Rusty McClear partner!
Silver Top Ventures Principal Office Address: Mill Falls Marketplace
312 Daniel Webster Highway
Meredith NH 03253 Wonder who that could be??? Rusty you sneak
Minuteman Plumbing & Heating
Sava Designs
Horn Insurance
Harts Restaurant
Fermentation Station LLC
Hunter's
Waukewan Antiques
Village Greenery
Etcetera Shop
Associated Surveyors
Moulton Farm
Barber Pole Association
Trexler’s Marina
Land’s End
Wyman Trail Association
Loon Preservation Committee
1st T Development Corporation
The Woodshed Restaurant
Castle in the Clouds
Amoskeg Insurance
EPTAM Plastics
The Common Man Inn 6. Guess who? Alex again
Corner House Inn
Seacoast Kayak
Tilton Veterinary Hospital
Waterville Valley Condo Rental
Thurston’s Marina
Lighthouse Inn
Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages
Van's Hotel Enterprises
Wolfboro Inn
Island Real Estate of New Hampshire
LB Boat Restoration

Wolfeboro Trolley Company+Millie B Same Owner!!!!
Wolfetrap Restaurant

I have no doubt polar bears would eat penguins if they didn't live on opposite ends of the earth.

The list may be a joke, but the joke is on you.

I only copied the list, I will take no responsibility for it. I suggest you go to the source and complain to them. I copied it from OffShoreOnly.com the performance boating site where the opposition hangs out.