Me--For One...
 

There are probably several healthy members of this forum who remember chilling their beverages with ice "harvested" from Winter Harbor. :look: (Just a mile from where I currently reside).

"Harvesting"was done with a long hand saw, and were also likely sold as large blocks in Wolfeboro.

Of course, private dwellings now occupy nearly every inch of Winter Harbor that was formerly a White Pine forest.

We can't expect pristine. :rolleye1:

But, we need to aim for 'pristine' knowing that the result will be 'less than pristine - but hopefully not too bad'. If we aim for 'less than pristine', the result will be even worse.

Give people an inch and they'll take a mile.

How many property owners on thew lake will raise their hand and blame themselves for this?

Its always easy to stand on the soap box and point fingers of blame, but few will look in the mirror and take responsibility AND then actually and significantly change what they are doing.

Its just human nature to blame the other guy, and to impose your preferences on others for their actions but not actually conform to those standards yourself.

I wish I didn't feel the need to thank you for this comment because I wish it didn't have to be written. But it's so true.

Me too, it brings me no joy,,,

At 58 years old I started in cloth diapers and was taught old school values.

We were far from perfect, but we all did a better job of enjoying life and treating people nicer.

Today everyone wants to out-do the other guy and too many people dont seem to care at all they their preference for anything has a negative impact of someone else.

I think about all the boats with monster sound systems blaring music across the lake. I dont even care if I like what they are playing, I still see no reason to blast it to everyone else.

Not the world I grew up in and NOT better,,,

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/photop...t_Glastron.jpg

Check out LWA (Lake Winnipesaukee Association
 

The Lake Winnipesaukee Association is a great resource to learn about the ecology of the lake watershed and ongoing efforts to maintain water quality.

LWA studies show that storm water runoff is by far the most damaging element to water quality. It brings both phosphorus and silt into the lake, adding algae to the food chain, which lowers water quality. Septic systems and fertilizer are also contributors and as this thread points out, there are some localized issues too.

Tomorrow (Saturday 8/29) it is supposed to rain about an inch. If you are at the lake, look for erosion taking place. If you can find sheets of water running into the lake, look for new silt deposits nearby. That is evidence of lake pollution. During "gully washer" thunderstorms and three day steady rains, the evidence is more clear.

The lake will age no matter if people are here or not, but it ages a lot faster when development channels water to the lake. The more that shore front property owners can reduce the impact of storm water runoff from their land, the less quickly the lake will age.

This pic again?


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Remarkable--as The Lake Is Low...
 

There's been no appreciable rain for several days, yet heavy boat traffic Friday afternoon has stirred the waters to the point that the lake bottom can't be seen off the end of my dock. :(

I'll post comparison photos sometime tomorrow.

Its my best side, the back side is not nearly as nice, but its all 100% me :D

Alton Bay circa 1963

Boat?
 

Taking a tangent for a moment but what a great boat in the pic XCR. I'm guessing......MFG.....Glaspar? Lark 40? Imagine that on Weirs Bay now on a Saturday be like a dinghy. OK done straying. Day 6 of antibiotics and about as many rolls of tp. Would you like a glass of water?.....no thanks I'm good.

I think a Glastron, but I'll have to pull some other pictures to be sure.

We had a lot of Glastrons over the years.

Sorry, mom thinks its was a Starcraft, mom says we went through several Starcrafts back in the day.

I'm not sure, apparently we had both brands,,,

No Rain, But Plenty of Boat Traffic Friday...
 

It's all the boats. :(

OK...I'm late with photos. :o I realized that the murky-water photo off my dock was taken mid-afternoon.

The clear lake water photo should also be taken at the same time of day. I'm having trouble timing a mid-afternoon picture :o but I'll follow up.

Ironically, Sunday's "wild" waves didn't break over my dock (as many here have said it would), and the water was much less murky (on a windy Sunday).

Here's Thursday's picture, followed by a Monday picture: The white part is the end of the dock.

Well said and what a great photo!

In closing
 

Originally Posted by XCR-700 View Post
Its always easy to stand on the soap box and point fingers of blame, but few will look in the mirror and take responsibility AND then actually and significantly change what they are doing.

Its just human nature to blame the other guy, and to impose your preferences on others for their actions but not actually conform to those standards yourself.

To sum it up......do as I say, not as I do

Nothing like a good intestinal parasite to help you get to that target weight.

diet
 

As you well know DPS (that's not dynamic power steering ugh) it's not like bad Chinese food. Best day in four weeks yesterday down about 10 lbs. Hard to believe the result of a "day at the beach" with my oldest trusted friend the lake.

No truer words were ever spoken,,,

Not a fun way to lose the spare tire,,,

Dont read, just nonsense,,,
 

So you are saying that DPS is not power steering and thus not helping you to either drive or ride the porcelain bus,,, :eek2:

Sorry,,, completely uncalled for,,, I fall on my sword. :rolleye1:

Sorry, according to gillygirl I've jumped the shark on this one. :(

I'll have to come up with another, how about this from 1969 looking down Alton Bay. Clearly I was ready to start the day with a boat ride, usually to Downings for some pre-mix :D

https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...41&oe=5F74995E

There are inherit risks swimming in any open body of water. And drinking from it for that mater. Unfortunately there are things going on in this lake, and as a rule it is not safe water to drink. And occasionally someone might get a parasite after swimming, but I don't think that happens all that often.

There are issues, with many things going on around the lake, lawn fertilizer, moored boaters need a place to relieve themselves, I can go on.

But there is also a lot of mother nature at work. When I started coming to this lake in the 80s I don't recall seeing geese. Now we have them in large quantities. Plus the Ducks and loons that have always been here. Believe it or not one of the most rampant parasites in our lake is the one that causes what has been labeled "duck itch" well the truth of the mater is it comes from the fecal mater of any water fowl....

There are of course invasive species of fish, and plants that have entered our lake as well. What are the long term effects that they will have is anyone's guess.

Between Man and Mother nature, the lake is dealing with issues it had never encountered before. It is called evolution and it is natural. Winnipesaukee is faring better then a lot of other lakes. Spend time on Lake Champlain, you will understand what I mean. There are parts of the lake choked off by invasive species of plants, I went to a boat launch where I could launch my boat, because the water chestnut growth was so thick, the boat actually sat on top of it and didn't really float, after realizing there was 300 or 400 ft. of this that I was going to have to wade through I put the boat back on the trailer and went else where on the lake.

Am I happy with the water conditions on Winnipesaukee, not at all I try and educate people when I can, about fertilizers, etc. But all in all I think the lake is still clean and enjoyable, and I would rather own on Winnipesaukee then many other big lakes in the area.

Now if people really want to see and bring about change in the lake, let the state open the dam all the way, drain the lake down to the Pre-dam level.... sure it will not be very usable for a while.... but it will bring about change as well..... But I am willing to guess not many people or business would support that idea (including me)..... but hey if we want to talk about change, that is a card on the table.....

Geese are a pretty new problem, so they're not a priority, but they will be a MAJOR problem if not addressed early. At the risk of being the "broken record," as I've stated this over and over, one needs only to look at states like Pennsylvania, where the non-migratory Canada goose population has destroyed many formerly-great lakes. They multiply, unchecked, and do nothing but eat and poop.

Old septic systems and fertilized lawns should be better regulated. But money talks, and putting any kind of restrictions on "progress" is tough.

Agreed on the septic and lawns as I've posted before. Please expand on the geese issue. It's easy to understand in general. I'm interested in your thoughts on why they are growing and what we might do to curb this.

It's pretty simple. More lawns, more geese.

We never see them near our place. Not surprisingly, neither we nor the neighbors have grass.

https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/...oose-guide.pdf

Canada geese are grazers and prefer grass, especially fertilized
lawn grass. They tend to forage in areas with open sight lines
and access to water where they can see and escape predators.

Goose manure is a primary factor for rising E. coli levels in freshwater lakes across the country. The most notable ingredient in goose dook is phosphorous, which can lead to an increase in nasty algae blooms. The average SINGLE goose deposits 1.5 - 2 pounds of fecal matter per day, much of it in the water or on surrounding grassy areas (read: lawns). That adds up quickly.

Where do you see them the most (other than in the water or the sky)? Usually, grassy areas. Check the waterside town park in Meredith. They are there, pooping away, with no predators and ample food. They love those grassy areas...lawns...and will nest there.

How to stop them? Got me. But I'd start with not letting them nest and reproduce on your property if possible.

So why are we not making better use of these critters. Open a chain of Goose-Fil-A and market it aggressively and at very competitive prices and the problem self-resolves. It could be a huge hit in China and help offset our trade imbalance.

Dont laugh too hard, it could work unless the WWF get involved (not the wrestling people,,,)

Better ideas, stop growing highly fertilized grass in multi-million dollar estates, now you can laugh and hard. Not holding my breath.

Oh well, I tried,,,

The degradation of the lake is not natural as has been suggested in previous posts. It is purely man made , the water fowl infestation is a result of the lake front being turned into perfect grazing land for them !

Why would you even want grass on waterfront property??? Then you have to buy a mower AND use it!

In the 1960's this was as good as it got, and not a blade of grass in site.

https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e5&oe=5F754235

Support the LWA!
 

Glad to see a healthy discussion about lake water quality and contributing factors (lawns, erosion runoff, faulty septic etc.). Twenty years from now I hope we are not looking back to 2020 and saying "we did not appreciate how good the water quality was then compared to now."
What can we do - no lawn fertilizer, pump out your septic every 3-5 yrs - depending on the size, use etc and join and support the Lake Winnipesaukee Association (winnipesaukee.org). LWA is the only organization working with all lake side towns to improve and protect the quality of our water. They deserve your support!

I laugh as my neighbors put in lawns.... even more so when I see that they then higher a landscaping firm to come mow it so they don't have to..... Mean while next year I am planning to aquire 5 yards or so of course sand to spread around, and cover up some new roots that are becoming tripping hazards....

Plant Blueberry sod on top of your lawn. Nice green all year and blueberry pies, muffins are a lot better than anything you can make out of grass.

Vanity
 

This is all about vanity. A big, sunny, green, fertilized, weedless lawn, probably maintained by someone else, and likely surrounding a large house used a month or two out of the year is equated with status. Fact is, people care more about impressing others than they do about the lake's health. I believe people purposefully avoid connecting these two ideals. They compartmentalize each and conveniently conclude that they can have both. We talk about educating people but does anyone really feel that education is the answer? Mostly, I think, it'll take more extreme measures - regulations and penalties - to get the larger population to listen. I'm sure that will go over great in the Live Free or Die state.

I think you have it right and wrong.

The right part is the piece about status and impressing others and all for the 3 months and half dozen trips they make a year.

The wrong part, is the regulation and penalties. In my opinion, you will not stop the problems with regulation and penalties, and more regulation and penalties usually only irritate your potential supporters, especially for the people who do believe generally in the live free, or die values.

If the problem you are trying to fix is too many lawns and associated fertilizer, then you need to convince people something else is the new in thing and better option.

Sell your belief or idea, don't force it, you get better results.

Lakesmart
 

I hope that over the next few years, getting your house certified as "Lake Smart" will have more cache and prestige than a big green lawn. Probably, most non-bridged island properties already qualify, just need to fill out the survey and have a quick inspection. Right now, it's free. Details on NHLAKES.org. Probably next year, when Covid is under control and we are all more comfortable with visitors.

I don't like my suggestion either. But selling people on ripping out their lawns, or letting them go to nature, or not planting them in the first place just isn't going to work. Look around, is it working now?

Frankly, many of these folks are going to look at you like you're crazy - if they even listen at all. They already know what they are doing is wrong but they look away. You aren't going to get them to the free one hour talk about lake health at the local community center. They aren't reading environmental newsletters or websites and I doubt they know what their landscaper is putting on their lawns. Heck, they probably aren't even here. I just don't see a working formula that scores significant results by simply convincing people through education and dialogue that they are better off sacrificing personally for the benefit of the lake. I'm not suggesting that education isn't valuable. Only that it isn't going to resonate with a large majority of property owners on or near the lake.

I'm not sure my suggestion works but I'm convinced simply selling ideas doesn't. The heavily used lake results in complex problems that require widespread solutions. There are too many people with singular motivations that are rotating in and out of here each and every year. This is all too much for just selling and education.

Ok, then figure out how to not throw out the bathwater as the baby may need to be washed,,, Try other solutions than the standard pass a law and restrict it strategy.

How about synthetic lawns, I understand they are all the rage in water challenged areas. No need to water, fertilizer, mow, weed, and ducks cant eat it.

We always seem to force matters into all or nothing situation and then you invariably get push-back, next the restrictions start and then the bypass begins because people always want what you cant have. Look at the rampant problems with illegal fireworks in Massachusetts because they are totally outlawed. Same thing with gun limits, the more you add restrictions, the more people want them. And lets not forget the battle about sport boats in NH, start layering on restrictions and all you get is a battle.

Find a better path, it works better.

Restrictions better be justified by an undeniable and imminent life threatening consequence AND be very obvious or you will not get the widespread support you need in the form of compliance.

There are always options.

And you also need to consider that many of us believe the planet is here for us to use, NOT ABUSE, but use, and with use comes some acceptable wear and tear and impact, so find that middle ground or buckle up for a battle.

History starts today
 

To me, many of these posts are a very short term outlook, less than a generation. Fifty years ago, Stewart Lamprey and other water activists passed enabling legislation along with federal funding to build the Winnipesaukee River waste water treatment plan. Instead of failing septic systems leaching into the lake, we have sewer all along the western side of the lake from Moultonboro to West Alton. The newbies who have been here less than, say, 40 years, take it for granted. There are very few septics left now. Not Winni exactly, but about 20 years ago, the state bought about one million+ acres of land in the north country, set aside 25,000 acres of old growth as forever wild, put a conservation easement on the rest and sold it to wood product industries. Long term vision and action by an entire state. That's pretty rare.
Now we talk about, on a small scale, lawns. But we're really talking about our statewide water resources. Education may be a slower process, but I can see where, in 25 years, the real estate listing won't say " new kitchen", or "beautiful lawn" but will say "low maintenance lake friendly landscaping". There will be a market bonus for a certified "Lake Smart" property. I'm not a tree hugger, but I am thinking about my grandchildren, and I hope they will think about their grandchildren. Sorry to be preachy.

25 years ago we built our home in CT. We chose to install a ground source geothermal heat pump - a new thing in CT at the time. We were one of the first 50 residential units to be installed in the state...deciding to move forward with the help of incentives courtesy of our electric utility. Today, geothermal is very much a selling advantage in real estate listings. So, I think your point is a good one. Still, I am sure that the health of the lake cannot be solved by education alone. Someone’s going to have to wave a big stick.

By the way, that geo system we bought was a great decision. It’s saved us boatloads of money and is a very safe, environmentally friendly and comfortable heat and AC source.

RE; Your Geothermal system

And that is EXACTLY my point, no one forced you to put it in and now you can sing the praises of how good it is and how much you saved.

Thats a much better AND more effective method than a big stick in places like NH.

Dont go to NH and "tell" anyone what they must do, convince them and you will have a strong following. It has been my observation that people from NH are very practical and may not jump on the bandwagon right away waiting to see if its BS or a fad, but once they see the clear truth, they will do whats right for them. But threaten them with a big stick and you may come to regret it, or at the very least, you will only slow the progress you seek.

My two cents and observations, your opinion may vary.