He actually was just getting over a fever... Loves going in "daddy's boat" was one of the only places I could put him to keep him happy... No problem there.. he got to play in his "fort" (the V berth) and I got to clean the vinyl.. :) I think its a fact that all kids love the cabin of boats more then anything else.

Actually, sunset, I think he is saying: "Daddy go faster." which according to my Mother I always used to say. And my brother wanted to go slower.

Normally I'd agree..... however I took the picture.. so he would have been saying... "Daddy who is the lucky guy driving the boat??" :laugh:

Keep it up and i may have to attend as well. Sounds like a good time. I'll leave my p/u home and bring my GFBL car. ;)

TRYING to Enlighten, anyway!
 

That appears to be a new life jacket. :look:

Did you read the warning label inside? (Or better, the "disclaimer"?) :confused:

Opponents of a 45-DAY limit won't be happy to see the exact threshold speed at which many of these NEW kids' life jackets are NOT recommended! :eek:

;) "Child PFD" image below:

I do agree with you APS. You have to be very careful that the disclaimer is read. Many of these child and adult life jackets for that matter are not made for anytype of speed, only to keep you bouyant in case of emergencies. As you would not wear a standard orange vest to go wake boarding (or at least I would not consider that safe) I wouldn't rely on a ski vest in a poker run. There are specific designs to fit the activity.

Sunset,
You might as well go to the meeting as you will be photo shopped into the summit group photo anyway. If you go in person, they won't have to get creative with who's picture they paste into the photo.:)

LOL.. You know this can easily go down a VERY FUNNY path from here..... :D

Not gonna lie to you I'm pretty good with Photoshop and final cut pro. I could easily make it look like sunset is our spokesman!:laugh:

well it looks like we have a good group so far:

Ocd
Gtagrip
DotheMath
Broadhopper
Hazelnut
Nobozo
Pineedles
Sunset (might have to be photoshopped in :D)

Am I missing anyone?

Just trying to get a solid estimate so I can start looking at venues.. Still leaning towards meredith... Frankly Church Landing Bar isn't bad.. I was there and it can handle a big group or small.. Plus it doesn't have loud music playing etc.

I should be there.

I will leave the Diesel Truck at home and take my quiet car if that will make some people happier :D

Here's a couple of guys killed when they tried to turn too sharply for the speed they were going in their "speed boat";
http://www.ktiv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10608158

Unfortunately
 

I only have the 'Formula' hauler. So everyone will have to put up with one 'red neck sled'. :emb:

The 20 footer they took out to fish has a top speed of 60MPH. Authorities said life jackets would have helped the men survive.

More interesting, Nebraska has an average of 5 deaths per year on it's lakes and have no pending legislation that links speed to safety. :eek:

Compare that to the safety record of NH.

Same here. F250 with LOUD exhaust tips.. Sorry APS and Sunset. Back window has Performane boating stickers covering the whole thing. Definately a red neck sled.

PS. Laughed at that expression!

With all do respect...that article proves nothing. We dont know:

-what kind of boat
-the conditions
-the speed

Not trying to bash or downplay anyone's info but I was just wondering (since we don't know how fast they were going) if the accident could've still happened at 45mph, depending on the boat and how fast and tight they tried to turn?

I also find myself wondering if that 5 deaths per year average is just boating related deaths or does it include deaths not related to boating (like drowning because someone didn't know how to swim or having a heart attack while swimming)?

With all due respect, why do facts matter?

(Please note, this is not directed at you WB)

Look at the destruction to this poor boat when another boat "going at high speed slammed into it, went over it, and kept on going". The guy in this boat was killed but the driver of the boat that hit him is ok. Doesn't that always seem to be the story? This accident sounds just like one of the ones we had on Winnipesaukee a few years back and the one they had on Long Lake in ME last year. But then, I guess a lot of them sound exactly the same;
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...43708319448551

I got a problem with the VOLVO WAGON. :D NB

I saw a deer get hit tonight on the interstate. There should be a speed limit on these roads.



Safety lanyards are a great thing to have on, and they usually prevent the boat from turning in a circle and hitting ejected occupants.

PFD's can aid in the rescue efforts of people being thrown from boats, and even occasionally save them from drowning.

Four people died early in the season on Lake Winnipesaukee when they drowned after being thrown from small boats into cold water. The tremendous increase in deaths on Lake Winnipesaukee has caused many to wonder if small boats should be allowed on such a large, cold lake.

There is a bill before Congress requesting Federal aid for providing slow-speed lifejackets to those that boat in cold waters on large lakes.

This is so intuitive
 

This makes so much sense

”The important thing for boaters to remember is they’re the captain of their vessel. They’re responsible to operate it safely.” Andrew Munoz, spokesman for the Lake Mead National Recreation Area.

Yeah, it wasn't to hard to figure out which vehicle was yours when we meet last summer!!!!!!!

was it the truck or the pitbull in the back seat? lol

I just got invited to skiing at Jay Peak that weekend, I should still be able to make it as long as I am not skiing to fast and crash into a slower moving skier/snowboarder.:rolleye2:

Dogs
 

Can I bring my Rotweiler? 'Ms Bette Midler'

Better yet, we should have a "safe passage" law on the roads too...since that works so well on the lake.;) Then the driver would have slowed to 6MPH when he got within 150FT of the deer and probably would have then been able to avoid it. As stupid as this sounds, this the the very logic that your group uses to claim the 150' rule is the cure to all of our troubles. Boaters going 70MPH leave themselves too few microseconds to react to the unforeseen within that 150' "safety zone". It's a good distance at 45 MPH. It's way to small at 70-100MPH.
I can't say my biggest concern is the ejected occupants. I worry more about the innocent bystanders in the debris path ("debris" including the carcasses of the ejected of course). They did not choose to be involved with this as the ejected passengers did.
As SL supporters admit so so often, of course a Speed Limit is not going to prevent all boating deaths, all accidents, or all boneheads from taking the helm...but it is one obvious step in the right direction, and a sensible part of a package of safety laws that make the lake safer for the rest of us.
These idiots were in too-small boats that were swamped by waves...not in a boat that rolled because it was going way too fast while trying to turn or when it hit a wave. They obviously put themselves in great danger by taking to the lake in such tiny boats. But did they put any of the other more cautious boaters on the lake that day involuntarily into harm's way because of their stupidity? Did they put nearby boaters in danger that they would be killed by their speeding boat or flying debris? People who kill themselves by their stupid decisions might deserve what they get. But those of us who chose a slower more careful lifestyle don't deserve to be put at risk because of some cowboy's "need for speed".

actually my little guy is harmless. my 2 year old rides him and he gets beat up by cats.. but you have to be careful of the stereotype of those breeds.. we could be labeled "cowboys" for having that particular type although they are perfect family dogs... wow where have I heard this before in relation to...........................

Originally posted by elchase
Yes they did!

They endangered the lives and safety of the people that attempted to rescue them. Those people, Marine Patrol or good samaratans, could have also lost their lives trying to save these people. But because they were not going fast their lives, and the lives and well being of the rescue crews, are not as important to you it seems!

NH remains the safest state in New England in which to boat and among the safest in the United States!

Stereoypes
 

Bette is an old grandmother who let my grandkids paint her nails! LOL! And Duke the Siamese will 'kick' Bette out of her bed so he can sleep there!

My neigbor's toy poodle is viscous! Already bitten a number of folks and has a warning from the local constable. We name the poodle 'Ms Winnfabs' LOL!

Airwaves, you stole my thunder! I was going to say exactly the same.

Herein lies the flaw in your logic:

*Boats at 70MPH are travelling at 103ft/second and will approach a stationary object 150 feet away in 1.5 seconds.
*Boats at 45MPH are travelling at 66ft/second and will approach a stationary object 150 feet away in 2.3 seconds.

We're talking about 0.8 seconds???? I fail to see where this 'safety zone' arguement makes sense? Why can't we agree to focus on safety?

Navigation Rule 6 states that a “safe speed” accounts for visibility, traffic, the boat’s stopping distance and turning ability, weather conditions, water depth and navigational hazards, among other factors.

One more thing!
 

So now it seems that only what you call "high speed boats" are the cause of fatalities and accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee and completely discount and ignore the truth of the matter which is that the deaths were in a SLOW boat NOT INVOLVING A COLLISION. As is the case in MOST of the accidents in NH!

How is it that when opponents to this unnecessary "Feel good" law look over your posts and out-of-state and out-of-country links, and point out that in those cases the overriding cause was a drunk boater you say pooh pooh, they were going too fast period, but now when there were boating fatalities on Lake Winnipesaukee NOT INVOLVING SPEED AT ALL! They are dismissed by you as people who are stupid and kill themselves while putting the lives of their would be rescuers in danger is no problem, heh?

As opponents have been pointing out time and time again. Safety is not the issue, the issue is getting a type of boat that a vocal minority objects to, off the lake under the false pretense of safety!

I wince every time I read one of your posts ridiculing the boating laws in the state. Since you also make fun of the Marine Patrol (bolded part), I'll leave it up to the reader where you're coming from on that.

I don't think any boat should be heading towards a stationary object within 150' at 70 mph or 45 mph. At either speed, I view it as a mistake, and hopefully was not intentional. I agree with you that at 70 to 100 mph that's way too close a margin, but I do not agree that at 45 mph it is a Safe distance when closing.


It's pretty apparent you're quite selective in whom you care for. You've labeled the dead fishermen "Idiots", probably because they account for fully 100% of the deaths on Winni in 2009. But regardless of your opinion, they were human beings and boaters, and probably had families that thought a lot of them. Everyone makes a mistake or two.

Again, I was speaking to safety, and specifically, Kill Switch Lanyards. I think they are a valuable safety tool on any power boat, regardless of speed. I think most boaters can judge for themselves whether they regard the instant stopping of a boat where the operator is no longer able to man the controls is a good thing or not.

I really think you need to get your own personal priorities in order El before you start denigrating the boating rules, the Marine Patrol, and worst of all, the deceased.

airwaves.. You know you can't win.. Just propaganda that has no basis or facts for their arguement.

For example it has been stated that people feel that the lake is safer and that there is less traffic on the lake this year. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduct that this is due to the weather and the economy. In every local paper it has stated the entire lakes region tourism has taken a hit. Obviously this will have an effect on boat traffic.. Not due to enacting one feel good law.


looking forward to Jan 2nd!

It's not for Elchases benefit!
 

To tell you the truth when I respond to elchase or APS or others it's not an attempt on my part to convert their way of thinking. That is not going to happen.

I just don't want their outragous claims and outright lies to go unanswered because as everyone who posts to this forum knows, legislators do read it.

I also don't like the Supporters/Opponents thread for that same reason. Lies and fabrications can go unchallenged since no one is allowed to cross over and post to clarify or challenge statements.

Case in point APS' latest picture posting on the Supporters thread. That was dug up from debates in the past and it was pointed out by many that the photos were misleading at best since they have no frame of referance and his posting about a tent camp was designed only to fear monger, no tents or camps in any of the photos I might add. I did challenge him about this on that thread but it was deleted because I am an opponent to this unnecessary feel good law.

Same thing with Elchase. He links to out-of-state and out-of-country accidents and implies they are all speed releated, ignoring critical facts one of the biggest being that on LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE there are different laws that are protecting us such as MANDATORY BOATER EDUCATION and SAFE PASSAGE.

In addition he discounts the fatalities on Lake Winnipesaukee in 2009 as idiots because they did not involve speed so the lives lost don't count!!!

Lawmakers in Concord need to know the facts, not the exagerations and lies being presented by Elchase and APS!

So no, I am not looking to win an argument with either, but I am hoping to show a legislator or two that if they want to look into their statements they will find that they are being made chumps of!!!

Ya know I just HAD to repost this statement. If ever there were a more succinct statement to prove just how ludicrous the flood of posts has been by one certain member of this forum here it is. He has absolutely no regard for facts whatsoever. The posts are a perfect example for proving our point of fear mongering by the supporters. Any time anyone on here presents facts we get these random posts about accidents in Guam, China, Hoboken and god knows where. It is actually comical and I have been laughing but at the same time worried that legislators might actually use this stuff as ammo to support the law. I would like to think they were more intelligent than that but... I don't know. The numbers overwhelmingly support the case for no SL but why should that matter to anyone?

Very true Hazel. And let me be so bold and take it one further. These same individual(s) have not hid the fact that their ultimate goal is to ban a specific type of boat and are using the Legislatures ignorance of the lake to pass these feel good laws. They try to use past accidents where Speed had nothing to do with the cause of the accidents. They manipulate the situation to try to link the accidents to speed because of who the person was driving or the type of boat it was, when in each situation SPEED WAS NOT A FACTOR.
Ok I'm off my soapbox. These arguements have been made before but I hope this time the legislators are listening!
Enforcement and Education is the answer

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A unit of time equal to one millionth (10<SUP>-6</SUP>) of a second.

1,500,000 microseconds sounds like a long time...

Only 18,100,000,000,000 microseconds until iceout.:D

An MP boat and a police boat went out and fished their bodies aboard and drove them to shore. These boats were plenty large enough for the conditions on the lake that day, and the officers did not even need to get wet. If we did not have the SL in effect that day, I'd agree that going out to retrieve these bodies endangered the officers' lives, but only due to the dangers of getting run down and cut in half by a speeding cigarette boat. Since the SL was in effect that day, that risk was eliminated and these guys faced little more risk on the lake than had they stayed ashore. I appreciate and respect what our law enforcers and safety professionals do...more than most. My brother is a cop. But retrieving drown bodies from the lake is part of their job. It is part of the job they chose. That is a whole different thing than taking your kids out in your boat for a day of recreation, thinking you have taken every precaution, proceeding slowly, and getting run over and killed out of the blue by some clown with the "need for speed".

Actually, a boat going 70 MPH passes 150 ft in 1.45 seconds. And the difference from the 45 MPH boat is 0.85 seconds. And therein lies the flaw in your logic. You see, the accepted average “perception and reaction time” is around 1.5 seconds for a sober driver in daylight conditions. (see any of the thousands of reliable sources around the internet, such as http://www.firerescue1.com/Columnist...tances-Part-1/) This is the time it takes you or me to see a kid's head pop up 150 feet directly in front of the boat, recognize the need to change course, send a signal from our brain to our hands to brake or steer (oh ya, we don't have brakes)...to steer, and to start effecting that signal. At 70MPH, we are just starting to turn our wheel 0.05 seconds AFTER we hear the thump of the poor kid's head as it is shattered into thousands of pieces of skull and brain. At 45 MPH, we have 0.8 SECONDS to spare. So yes, the 0.8 seconds that you dismiss as being so trivial is actually the very difference between the kid's life and death.

I don't think anyone except the most retarded cowboy would do so intentionally. But it is not the intentional case that usually results in all these deaths. It is usually when the unforeseen happens...the accident. One of those kayaks that you guys say are so impossible to see suddenly is visible in front of you. Or that poor kid is swimming out farther than he should be and pops up from underwater. 150 feet is not a sufficient safety zone for these high speeds.

And for good reason I think. I believe in a guys right to kill himself if he so chooses. But people who don't want to take these chances should not be "taken along for the ride". As I read in one letter last year, peopel who think roller coasters are too dangerous can choose not to hop aboard. But people who think high speed boating is too dangerous cannot prevent getting themselves run over by some idiot cowboy who is going too fast and loses control. And as all these accidents that you guys poo-poo for being on other lakes and such, boats going too fast and losing control happens ALL THE TIME.
Here's a perfect example. These two guys only killed themselves when they flipped at excessive speed. I'm sorry, but it's really hard to feel sorry for them. But had some innocent boater been cruising along nearby, who knows whether the bodies and debris would have also crashed into them and killed them, and I'd have a really tough time NOT feeling sorry for them. The speeders knew they were taking a risk. They chose to take a risk. But the innocent bystanders chose a safer lifestyle and simply don't deserve this. Luckily, there were no innocent bystanders THIS TIME;
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...cal&id=6347901