EL says NYET
 

Wow, I bring up the idea of a meeting again and OCD politely replies, and EL decides he'll have none of that. That just shows how committed he is to a compromise I guess. BTW, the boring part of this thread is El's multiquotes. I think the SL opposers really are trying to work out a solution IMHO.

Funny you should bring this up. The lead partner at this firm, the guy most involved with this project, was one of the biggest and most vocal supporters of a permanent 45/25 speed limit. He spoke at several events and hearings about the negative impact that high speed boating was having on our "golden egg". He talked about how hard the state has worked for so long to market our lakes and mountains and to project a "natural" image for NH to attract tourists. He worried aloud about the destruction to that image that such a contrary, aggressive, and "unnatural" activity was having and how much of a negative economic impact it was having. Why do you think we don't have photos of 6-ton cigarette boats blasting across the water on the font of our tourist brochures? The very experts you are quoting are some of your most avid opponents on this issue.
Now, please tell us what you found about the registration payments and how, assuming they have increased, that is the fault of a SL that the state has not yet invested $10K into.
Scoff⋅law [skawf-law, skof-] –noun 1. A person who flouts the law. Fool [fool] - noun 1. A person who brags openly about being a scofflaw. I am neither a scofflaw nor a fool.
I know you aren't, from your PM.
Of course you will. I can read the headlines the next day ..."Law-breaking go-fast boater tells legislators what they can do with their speed limit - Permanent speed limit bill passes in historic landslide".
I don't need to show up. My work is done. My points are already confirmed.
I am committed to a compromise and a solution; the compromise we worked out already, and the solution it proved to be. 45 is a pretty darn fast speed in a boat..fast enough for any reasonable boating activity on a crowded lake. Yet is it slow enough to provide for mutual enjoyment of the lake by all...a perfect compromise... and it has proven to be the perfect solution to the problems that so many complained about before last summer.
PLEASE tell us when we are going to see this documentary. The suspense is killing me.

Here's a guy "tossed out of his speedboat". No, he wasn't going too fast;) Maybe he was drunk;
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/cent...3Q0SNA0HNQ2BM1

Agreed Pin... I also see he conveniently decided not to respond to my query about adhering to roadway SLs. I know the answer already.

Thank you for the support on having dialogue between SL supporters and opponents. While there have been many compromises offered up by some supporters and some compromises offered by some supporters, there are still some supporters that are covering their ears while screaming out loud.

Hopefully, the legislature will rely on the testimony of the experts on this subject- the NHMP.

Oh well, another day in Paradise- though I think the boat will come out of the water today.

Good luck with that.

This makes absolutely no sense, but if this logic were to prevail, wouldn't certain parts of the lake be subject to a higher speed limit than the more 'thickly settled' neighborhoods?

Read it for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law

We obviously come to an impasse when it comes to the definition of a fact. I tend to use the commonly accepted version, which excludes things such as feelings, perceptions, opinions and the like.

The law is not working. How do I know it is not working, this past summer there were still boats violating no wake zones, violating the 150' rule regularly, failing to maintain a proper lookout, BUI, boating without a certificate and finally speeding, day and night. The list goes on and on.

It is a solution to a non existant problem. How do I know it was not a problem, because there was a study that showed that during a six month period, 0.075% of the boats were able to achieve a speed greater than 60MPH. There were also ZERO 'high speed' accidents before the SL and ZERO 'high speed' accidents after. While some argue this is the result of the speed limit, I will continue to contend that speed is, and was never an issue.

For the record, I do not own a GFBL.

I'll repost this for you to read again. How can you argue with the Director of the Division of Safety Services? He appears to have some credibility and knowledge of the issue, no?

GILFORD, NH – New Hampshire has the lowest rate of recreational boating fatalities in New England, according to US Coast Guard statistics, and is among seven states that have the lowest rates in the country. ...David T. Barrett, Director of the Division of Safety Services, said the low fatality rates reflect a combination of factors, such as mandatory boater education, aggressive patrol and a cooperative spirit and partnership between the marine trades and water-related tourist businesses.

I would like to commend OCD for his offer to set up a meeting. I for one would be willing to attend. I would hope APS, BI, TB and Sunset would attend as well. As for Mr. Chase, In spite of the fact you have insulted every person that disagrees with your point of view, I would like to meet you in person. I would hope that you really don’t believe your personal safety would be at risk but I can assure you the “cowboys and scofflaws” wish you no harm. I would expect a meeting to be cordial and it would be difficult to figure out who had the opposing views.

I have met some of the speed limit opponents and I can tell you they are good people. I would be astonished to find out that even one member that supports the limits are not as well.

Come on...If Nixon can go to China.....

You are probably correct-we finally agree :D

I will just send my Father in Law. He has captained a boat on Winni for the last 60+ years. He has never operated any boat in excess of probably 40mph.

When he hears the nonsense that comes from the speed limit supporters he is amused. He probably makes a much better witness than I

Thanks for the advice. You are good for something.

Golden egg?
 

This same guy is the guy that withheld evidence of Littlefield bar tabs. So that he can protect his liquor license. Never once have I consider him a law abiding citizen. You should go to some of the Planning board hearings. Some of the things he ask for zoning changes. And you say he wants to change the lake to 'Golden Pond'? His establishment is an eye sore if you ask me............... :cool:

The only Golden egg he wants to protect is his own.

Things are getting a little intense around here...here's something to lighten things up. That boating accident link from EL above...I was unable to open the article itself but did you see the "discussion" from readers contained in the link. It makes all of us seem downright wholesome and civilized. The grenades that they lob at one another make us look like a bunch of choir boys.:laugh:Check it out if you didn't get a chance.

A question to all
 

Why did you choose Lake Winnipesaukee as your home, second home or place to bring your boat or yourself? And which decade in which YOU (not your family) started using it regularly? I am not talking about, went up with my parents, I am talking each one of us personnally.

As we all know there are many other lakes in this region and I am interested to know why some have choosen this lake and when.

I am personally in the market to purchase a boat that will be on Winni full time for the first time this year. We never took our smaller boat on the big lake as we always felt it was undersized for the lake. We primarily boated on Merrymeeting as it was much quiter and more relaxing and closer. The reason we will be choosing Winni for our new boat is access to amenities, dining and entertainment for the kids. The lake has not changed at all in the ten years since we used our old boat heavily to now. I have spent my younger years living 15 minutes south of the Lake and could not call any other area home as the mountains, seasons, towns and scenery keep me close.

Basically we all have our reasons for saying Lake Winni is the place for me, but I really get the feeling that some peoples enjoyment has changed since that decision to come here and if that is the case what was it or when and really what keeps YOU here. (I would like to keep this to each individual posters response, instead of picking apart everyones reasons)

If nobody wants to play, that is fine, I WILL TAKE MY BALL AND GO HOME!!:D

I have a really nice 2007 Cobalt 222 (now called the 232) with 10 hours, YES 10 hours on it for sale! Sitting on a custom trailer - PM for more deets!) :)


And I'm all for a meeting - enough of the "hide behind the keyboard /screen" BS. Man (or woman) UP and show yourself - it's easy to sit at your desk and type, but who's really interested in being heard AND seen!? Name the time and place and I'm there (if I'm not traveling for personal / biz.) and I will be the first person to shake EVERYONE'S hand, offer a warm greeting and an offer for a genuine debate on the SL. It's the off season up the lake, so there should be plenty of places (restaurants, etc...) to accommodate as many of us that want to meet up and chat.

for meeting I am thinking the weekend of January 9th at the lake.

This way we will be beyond the holidays.

Would this work for everyone?

Maybe over in Meredith?

Or the 2nd if everyone is going to be up there after new years???

Play or Stay
 

I choose to stay at the lake. My family had a place on the lake since 1892. When the Claremeont education BS flared up, our taxes have quadrupled. My family had to sell a great fishing lodge that looks like the lodge on the movie 'On Golden Pond'. It is a shame as a 'fat cat' bought the property, tore down the lodge and built a McMansion.
Now I have 'laketop' property. The family is already 'railroaded' out of our lakefront property, I be be d@%n if I am 'railroaded' out of my laketop property. All because of a bunch of non NH natives that thinks they can 'railroad' their way into NH.

That is why I am putting up a fight. My family suffered enough! 'Live Free or Die trying!'

As for a meeting after the New Years. I usually leave for Breckenridge. The annual ULLR festival is on the second week of January. For those who have not seen this, add it to you 'bucket list'. You won't be disappointed! :D

I usually stay for about a month or more. Depending on the snow conditions and how the rental is going. I have a 4500 sq ft ski lodge for rent with 4 bed rooms, 1 bunk room, and 4 bath rooms. I usually rent the lodge out to a family. Due to the economy, I have been running it as a rooming house last year. A lot of work.

The lake is my 'home' and I intend to live there for the rest of my life. I will fight the laws that take me off the lake because I am poor and the fat cats can take over.

Unfortunately for me the first two weekends in January are very busy. My girl friend gets her Children Back from their Dad the first one, and the Second one is her Son's Birthday.
In short I wouldn't be able to do either of those weekends.

Right now, any weekend in January works for me.

I believe that the weekend of the 16th is a long weekend. I assume a lot of people have plans... I am off to Virginia at the end of Jan. Have to visit the boat.. She gets lonely.. :D but seriously there is a kickoff party for next years poker run so I will be heading down to that... Then off on a cruise and the Miami International Boat Show in Feb.

I know we will not be able to accomodate everyone but the 2nd or 9th seems to be the best. Let me know between the two....

Should be around for the 2cnd.
 

So that will work for me. I believe the Winnilakers are having their annual winter get together on the 9th and 10th. OCDACTIVE should go. They are over 200 members and counting. All against the speed limits. They remain to be anonymous like the bass federation. But when there is legislation going on. Watch out!

OOOh sounds like fun!!! Sign me up.. LOL..

BroadHopper Congrats on your 1000 post!

World Championship at Key West
 

Right now about 50 Winnilakers are in Key West for the Offshore World Championship. I usually go but lack the funds this year. It is quite the sight when we wear our Winnilakers T at the Miami airport. They rent a B&B as headquarter off Duval St. In the past, we use to sneak 'Winnilakers' bumper stickers on to the race boats. Surprisingly the owners keep them on till the end of the race. Someone has to let people know our pride of the lake!

Back in 2005? at a poker run on Lake Havasu, the local Fountain dealer displayed a huge Winnilakers logo on his Poker Run Special. That was the highlight of the poker run. My neighbor in Breckenridge, who was there, still talk about it!

"If it's fun we're there!" :cheers:

Sounds like a fun group BH. Quite a large group from Winni down there. I had done some tentative planning to be in KW this week, but it didn't work out. I'm also trying to see if I can finally make the Miami Boat Show, although the Ft. Lauderdale show is a bit easier for me to get to.

Very nice.. The Active Thunder Cult is there as well.

OK... After talking with a few people... I realize this wont work for everyone but it seems to be the best for the majority.


January 2nd.... Speed limit group meet up.. (not sure where, maybe mill falls market place and hit that italian resturant / bar (forget name right now))

This is open to everyone.. Oppossors, Supporters just to get to know each other. we don't have to debate but things may be a lot more civil in here if we can put the face with the name. Maybe Don may even like to join us.

Let me know if you plan on coming.

I would really love to join all of the anti-SL crowd (let's be honest, Mr. Chase is not coming) but I will be welcoming a future member of the anti-SL crowd on or about Jan 1! I will try and send a representative in my place.

Even better, maybe this meeting could take place in Concord during one of the upcoming debates on the sunset provision. We're going to need more support against the lies and spin of the pro SL crowd in Concord rather than at Giuseppe's....

I think the best way to treat a situation like this Ryan is with an open mind. We've all had our issues on this forum at one time or another. After the holidays is a great time to meet people. I think you'll find that in general, face to face contact mends quite a bit. I don't know about you,

I don't think anyone intended this to be a Pro This or Anti That type of meeting. In fact, it would probably be great if the subject never came up. Opposing attorneys and other such factions meet all the time outside work. It soothes the spirits, mends the soul.

As for Ed? OK, so we differ in our methods and opinions on some things. But he's obvious a smart and articulate guy, so why not get together with him and others and see how things go? I haven't been in any business yet that permits me to work with only those I choose, or only those that agree with me. That's life, pure and simple. This is precisely why I wanted a safety, or just a boating thread to thrive. You'll never get a group of people to agree on everything, so why not start with discussions on things most do agree with?

January 2nd is a pretty tough time for me to truck over, that's my weekend with the kids. But January 2nd doesn't have to be the last meeting ever does it? Perhaps some friends will be made, and everyone becomes on big happy, lake-loving family :)


Try it, you may like it.

I agree 100%.

Cactus Jack in Laconia
 

Has this room off to the side. A family room atmosphere. That will be a great place to meet. There is no traffic in and out. So we can talk without being disturbed. The owners are not SL supporters.

P.s.
 

There are some saddles for the 'cowboys'. :D

And I ran into one of the members at the Patriots Game on Sunday. He had a Pats Game Jersey and on the back instead of a player name it read "WINNILAKER" So we struck up a conversation.

I'm up for a meeting. Let me know I'm probably good for any of those dates discussed.

This doesn't sound like anyone is putting out the welcome mat to the opposing side to attend but maybe that's what you want? Hardly a good omen for enhancing communications between the 2 sides.

Well let me be very clear.. Would love to have you join us Sunset. I look forward to meeting you.

Agree. Lets pick a location not based on whether or not they support the limit or not. Lets also agree to make this a productive meeting. Not one of bickering and finger pointing. Sunset throw out a location I'm up for anything.

How about Giuseppe's??? if that doesn't work it isn't like we don't have a bunch of other places walking distance away? town docks, Largo, Church Landing etc etc...

Not Church Landing!
 

Or the Inn at Mill's Falls. Rusty is a staunch SL supporter. Winnfabs claims that Alec Ray is a supporter but he personally told me he has not sided with anyone! One of Winnfabs fibs.

well maybe our patronage will help show him the right direction. :)

It's in there.
The NHMP is not an expert in telling us what the citizens wanted and how satisfied they are with what they got. Why not just ask the citizens? I'm guessing that there will be another poll by the time the bill is ready for a vote that will show how NH's citizens feel about the speed limit. And you guys can show them your self-poll where you asked yourselves what you thought.
Exactly as I said. The NMSL was put into place in '74 to address the '73 oil embargo. It reduced any exisiting speed limit that was above 55 to 55, to save fuel. Did you think that we did not have speed limits before that and that this was the start of speed limits in our country?
That sounds wise. It would not have been good for your cause to have a guy show up and say "I'm a law-breaker and here's how I feel".
We must be talking about a different thing. Who are you talking about?
Your boat would be just fine on Winnipesaukee now, except on the Broads during windy days. I have a small bowrider that has suddenly become plenty big enough. I know Merrymeeting well, and Winni is much like Merrymeeting now. And while many had lost their enjoyment of Winni in recent years, they are finding it to be a much better place now. I say this in all sincerity. I know you have been posting as an "anti", but if you give Winnipesaukee's new-found civility a chance, I'm sure you will come around quickly. You do not need a 30-ft boat to feel safe on Winni anymore.
We all own property that used to belong to someone else...and they had to sell it for one reason or another...and we had enough to buy it...and we can build whatever we want on it, within the law, once we own it. This is America. Maybe Obama can help you get it back from those "fat cats".
I would love to come so long as it is not at one of those places that opposed the SL. Most of those places are so seedy that I have to burn my clothes afterward. Let's meet at one of the area's more respectable establishments, like Church Landing.
On second thought...

Believe it, or not!
 

We are getting closer to a meeting.

I don't own a GFBL boat. My cousin who owns a boat that can go faster than 25 at night and 45 during the day supports some sort of a speed limit. I respect his opinion because he is on the lake more than I am, but in the end it is his opinion.

I don't like to see erosion of shore front properties. I haven't planted any grass on my shore, and underpowing boats create bigger waves that erode the natural shoreline.

I don't like the erosion of our Rights. The nanny state is way to evident and growing today.

I enjoy the peace and quiet of my lake front cottage, but I also enjoy seeing a really fast boat go from Centre Harbor to One Mile in like 10.5 seconds.

I would like to be part of a January 2nd meeting of everyone to modify the speed limit.

I can't welcome Elchase; he has said he sees no reason for compromise, "he has already won, he'll meet us in the halls of the Capital". I don't see any reason to extend an invitation to him, unless he modifies his position on negotiation.

If there are folks from the SL Supporters, then I would very much like to hear their point of view and would very much like to discuss a compromise.

El, thank you for your response, but you have missed a point in my post that asks not to pick apart peoples reasons.

Also, if you have been paying attention to my posts from, well as far back as you want to go, you would know that I do spend time on Winni (this year and every year) as I have family that have multiple boats from 26' down to 16'. And, that I have already stated that I have not noticed a difference from 10 years ago to now. My feelings on the lake traffic have not changed either. I am a huge fan of anything fast, no matter what the surface is, that it's on. And I am not scared of things that are fast. But you missed one very important thing in my post that makes you and me very different; When we wanted to use our boat on a quiet lake, we went to a different lake. We did not use Concord to try and get everyone else to leave.

BTW, how did you now what size boat we are looking at?

150' rule
 

I don't like any one that chastised the 150' rule either. I think that is the best law going for all of us. Whether we row, sail or motor. The meeting is about reaching a compromise. I don't want to get rid of the law because of the reasonable and prudent clause and strict penalty for speeding. I want to make it better and help all vessels boat safely. Right now the boneheads sees a huge loophole and they are taking advantage of it. Let's close it.

Wait, did you really just say that?

What does the NHMP care about the citizens opinions and feelings about the lake? The NHMP are EXPERTS on BOATING SAFETY, which is what this law is all about - correct?

But, it makes sense that you would disrespect and discount the NHMP's role in this process because they have gone on the record and conducted surveys (with those crazy facts again) that clearly show that speed is not an issue on Winni. But, I will agree with you here, what does the NHMP know about warm fuzzy feelings....????

Boy, after hearing the SL opposers bash the MP over issues of non enforcement of 150' rule, non enforcement of NWZ's, surly officers who have pulled them over, etc., why now the sudden surge of respect and credibility for their expertise? This flip flop makes your whole argument seem rather contrived to me. Especially after hearing so many of the SL opponent's complaints about some of these guys, I, like EL, don't want them telling me what to think. They work for the citizens of NH, not the other way around.

I respectfully disagree Sunset. I do believe that any and all criticism of MP enforcement warranted or not was done constructively and with respect. I happen to know a couple MP personally and even I criticized them on a couple of points. I and others have said numerous times that the organization does yeoman's work with regard to the relatively small budget.

I feel as if your post is a misdirection. Ryan made a point and I do not believe Ryan has "bashed" the Marine Patrol. I also don't believe many if any have, as you said, "Bashed" the marine patrol.

Put that aside for a second and answer the actual question. Do you or do you not believe that the Marine Patrol knows more than you or I about the issue of safety on the lake? Are you saying that you and elchase and the 3 or 4 of you know more than Director Barrett, or Tim Dunleavy? So we should disregard their opinion because they are employees of the state? I do not expect this question to be answered directly because I know if I were any of you guys I would do my best to avoid answering it. I already know the answer.

Finally with all due respect and don't take this personally, you keep calling any argument that anyone has against the Speed Limit "contrived." I assure you that none of my posts are "contrived." My feelings on the issue are strong and they are true. I feel, as Ryan does, that the MP are the experts. I also feel, as I stated earlier, that this is a political issue for me and I am angry that Laws are allowed to pass on emotion without facts. Just as you have your feelings on the issue so do we. I'm sure your arguments are based on your feelings so it would be nice if you gave the same consideration to other people who post on this board and did not dismiss their feelings as "contrived."

Thanks
H