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He also knew that there was very limited (if any), support for additional funds for enforcement. So in BI's mind, this bill wouldn't really solve any problems, but maybe it might limit, or even prevent, some of the GF boats from going to Winni. Far too often today, government relies on premeditated plans to spread as much disinformation as they can to gain support for one cause or another. Kracken explains the theory and practice of the "Nudge". Spot on in many respects. Again, we have far too many people that are only too willing to support a cause by any and all means possible. Proof is not needed, nor are any substantial facts or debate. People will believe a large percentage of anything you throw on the wall, so just throw more than the other side to see what sticks. This happens in all levels of government, from the highest power down to the local levels. Unfortunately, there's not too much chance in any of these debates for rational, common sense discussions. Careful analysis of facts mean nothing in debates where people choose sides, not solve problems. BI and myself probably share a lot of common ground in this debate overall, while we may differ in the solutions offered. In fact, many of the SL opponents agree with his statements of concern far more often than the supporters themselves. Unfortunately, it's not folks like BI that have taken leading rolls in battles such as this. It's the combination of political hacks, lobbyists and special interest groups that know their way around that black hole called government, not to mention how to sway or misrepresent public opinion. I'm going to spend some time in the off season discussing these issues with many fellow boaters and organizations that have been dealing with safety on the waterways. I'll try to share my findings as best I can. |
Can I further state that is an extreme pleasure to have you back BI. I know we have butted heads big time in the past. I'll take some blame for that. I may have taken things way too personally in the past when you and I were discussing and I shouldn't have. I don't want to come off as belittling your opinion. I am not. Your concerns are valid, we just disagree on the solution.
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Hnut, I think you misspelled a word or two, get ready to be strung up!!! :laugh:
Great post above, hit the nail on the head. |
Time has not passed on Compromise
The way I see it, time has not passed on the possibility of compromise. I have been in contact with several legislators in regard to allowing this law to sunset and replacing with one that actually solves the issues.
My suggestions have been: Increased penalty for BUI. Increased penalty for violating a NWZ. Maintain a speed limit (not necessarily 45, but that works) in areas that the lake is less than 2000 feet wide. Raise the night time speed to 35MPH to reduce shore erosion, this would remain lake wide . In areas that are wider than 2000 feet, no speed limit, but increase distance from shore to 300 feet in these zones. Adopting USCG rules and giving them teeth that NHMP can use. Some suggestions that I think I may add. Hnuts eliminating the online certificates (this also affects myself) and my creating NWZ's around areas of specific concern for safety, i.e. BI's summer camps. This law also has absolutely no affect on my enjoyment of the lake, as it stands right now, I have not owned a power boat in two years (16ft bowrider with 48HP outboard) and did not use the boat for a period of three years before I sold it. The boats that we are looking into purchasing now, are cruisers and would not realistically reach 45MPH. My feelings on how the legislature has handled this and serveral other laws have been stated and do not need to be repeated. But I am not in favor of supporting a law that was dreamed up by irrational or emotional thought. |
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So I can see by your comments, it has not been about safety, but to rid the lake of a certain type of boat. I hope the legislature is reading this now. |
I guess I missed this oldie
1/18/2008
New Hampshire May Raise Speed Limit, Ticket Dawdlers New Hampshire could be the first northeast state to break the 65 MPH speed limit barrier. The New Hampshire state House Transportation Committee on Tuesday heard testimony on legislation that would make New Hampshire the first northeastern state to increase its maximum speed limit to 70 MPH since the federal government ordered the state to drop its speed limits from 70 MPH to 55 MPH in 1974. The bipartisan legislation, introduced by David L. Smith (D-Nashua) was designed to bring New Hampshire into line with the states outside of the northeast, most of which already have roads posted at 70 MPH or greater with Texas holding the top position at 80 MPH. The measure would also make it a $50 offense to hold up traffic in the fast lane. Smith intends to boost highway safety by allowing state police and other law enforcement to crack down on passive aggressive drivers who insist on driving slowly in the far left lane, obstructing the flow of traffic. The legislation requires that police issue a warning on the first offense and a $50 ticket for any subsequent offense. The legislation applies the 70 MPH limits to any four-lane divided highway in the state and sets speeding ticket rates that range from $65 for being accused of driving 71 MPH up to $350 for 91 MPH. Anything over 96 MPH would require a court appearance. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/21/2179.asp I bolded my favorite part :laugh: |
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I'd be surprised if any Speed Limit opposer did not feel that a Nighttime speed limit would be acceptable no matter what. I think the hair splitting comes in when we discuss what that limit should be. After this summer I can most assuredly tell you that 25MPH is too slow. It became evident to me that a non-boater or at least someone with no nighttime boating experience came up with this arbitrary number. Even an extra 5MPH would make all the difference in the world. As a matter of fact the majority of one particular members flood posts were highlighting accidents that occurred at night. If we were to all agree that there should be a nighttime speed limit what then would Supporters use for "stories" to back a daytime speed limit. |
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Although most would agree travelling at 'unlimited speeds' at night is unsafe, I can recall more than a handful of times this summer sitting on the beach at night watching and listening to boats roaring through the Witches. While I did not have my Lidar gun handy (neither did the MP) there was no doubt that these boats were exceeding the SL. These are strictly my observations of where the SL will never work without funding to properly staff the MP. |
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Here's to show what happens when a boat is going very fast and suddenly the surface conditions change...as they often do on Winnipesaukee; http://www.break.com/index/speed-boa...d-crashes.html |
Here's a video of a canoe tipping over. Fortunately, these boaters were wearing life jackets. This would never happen if we could ban these dangerous canoes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6ITPj09ocA |
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I have done a fair amount of research into boating accidents the past three years, so I was at least vaguely familiar with most of the accidents posted here. The overwhelming majority of night time accidents on the waterways in the country involved alcohol. I'm not blaming alcohol any more than I blame guns for killing, or a specific boat for hitting things. It's the boater's fault, 100%. There have been some horrific accidents at higher speeds at night, but mostly they are not going that fast. Some say the SL law gives the MP a good reason for stopping these boaters at night, while even some SL supporters think that drunks often drive slower than the SL to avoid getting caught. Either way, there are still a lot of drinks out there boating at night, SL or not. I hesitate to call people that have a BAL near or at the legal limit drunks, but I try not to get into issues that some fly off the handle with. SL or not, enforcement at night has been cut back all over the country due to budget problems. So as some people contend, many are quick to pass laws that they know won't be enforced. Maybe there should just be no powefred boats at all on the lake, day or night. :rolleye2: |
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Please answer this for me, because I dont recall receiving an intelligent or reasonable answer to date: If I am traveling 65mph across the Broads on say a Tuesday afternoon and there is not another boat or land within 2000 feet of me-What is the Harm? I should also add that my boat does not have a loud thru hull exhaust when I am at wide open throttle. I can answer my own question and the answer is NO ONE, because I did this almost everytime I was out this season and will continue to do so when it is safe, regardless of what ridiculous laws there are. But back to my question: If I am traveling 65mph across the Broads on say a Tuesday afternoon and there is not another boat or land within 2000 feet of me-What is the Harm? |
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You're only targe has been GFBL's. |
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But that's just my perception, other people may not share my opinion on that. |
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I came to this discussion only this year, but that is my impression as well. ====================== Can someone educate me on how to find out about testifying the next time this issue comes up in Concord. My wife and I would love to testify and explain what we do for work, how we enjoy the lake and our thoughts on this issue. Might be interesting for the folks in Concord to see that Performance Boat Captains are not the devils some describe us to be. |
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You did it! Nice multi-quoting. FYI- Blame me I think I taught Sunset how to multi-quote. I created a monster!!! :laugh: J/K |
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We have speed limits on roads that are a result of years and years of facts and studies. Speed limits were intially put in place as a means of conservation and not safety (please see my earlier post). Unfortunately, there are no facts to show that speeding is a problem on any of NH lakes. |
Nice "story" about the Tuesday boat. When will this nonsense stop?
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The law is working.
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Nice work on the multi quoting. I'm glad you figured it out. Now for some guidelines. Don't be going all Acres Per Second on us and using 625 quotes per post. It gives me a headache. :laugh: |
This back and forth is not coming closer to a compromise yet. I think OCD suggested a meeting? I will say this, it is entertainment (sometimes boring entertainment, but entertainment none the less) as we transition to winter topics, but that's about it.
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I would definately be willing for all of us to get together but so far not too many people saying they would be willing.... Any supporters willing to meet the opposers? |
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Any chance the NH legislature could put a ban on multi quoting. It is killing this website.:D
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I will say that this quote of yours is a new low- SL opponents are criminals and scofflaws, legbreakers? You think that if you met with your so called gang of 8, a police presence would be necessary? Really? I am sorry you feel that way. What a terrible way to go through life. I will ask any SL supporter that feels someone who breaks the 45/25 is a criminal and scofflaw to please honestly tell me you obey every roadway SL. If you do not, do you consider yourself a criminal and scofflaw? Have a good night. |
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I just hope you show up, because once you open your mouth my points will be confirmed. |
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