radiant heat

[al]

Has anyone had any experience with radiant heat in their floors. Is it more efficient? Does it cost a lot more to install? Does it work well under carpets and wood floors? Does it cause wood floors to shrink and leave gaps over time? Is it best if combined with another type of system? We are building a house and have heard both good and bad.

[madreeesahs]

When I lived in Rhode Island, our house had oil-fired radiant heat. It was the best heat one could imagine. You could walk around the house barefoot when there was a foot of snow outside. No noises, dusty vents/ductwork, dust mites, drafts or smells -- totally, absolutely unobtrusive. The sense of warm comfort without ever thinking about it.

Four decades later, I revisited the old homestead and inquired about the heating system's reliability. It had been trouble-free.

I have no information on efficiency -- a major consideration in New Hampshire. As I recall, it was a carpet-over-concrete floor. If wood is added, I suspect you'd have the problems with shrinkage -- maybe creaking and popping. But even wood over base wood floors can differ between seasons.

Perhaps the installer can recommend his last installation for your inspection? You're luckeee to beee building a new home to consider radiant heat.

Where are all these eees coming from?

[throbbin rods]

We built a new house 3 years ago, put radiant between the floor joists and insulated under it. Best heat ever!! If I am going out on a cold morning i throw my clothes down on the floor when I go to bed - warm clothes in the morning. The dog and cats love it. No dust, no allergy problems. WE installed the laminated flooring over it and have had no issues.
bill

[rattlesnakeislandman]

radiant heat is the most comfotable heat to have, works well with hardwood,tile,and floating floors, carpet you have to be carefull with the r-value of pad and carpet there are many ways of doing,we are a member of the radiant panel assoc. you can look on web for more info,or post you email if you would like more info.good luck with your new home,and by the way very efficient heat a little costly upfront if in budjet well work it.

[Captain]

I am putting in a concrete driveway in the spring. Does anyone have any experience with a heated driveway?

Do you know of a contractor in the Laconia-Gilford area who is experienced with this sort of installation?

Thanks.

[T.H.E. Binz]

I built a house years ago in the Virginia mountains that had radiant heat, but the wires were placed in the ceiling. It worked great, but I sold the house after a few years so I can't comment on its long term maintenance.

[Jake]

How effective is radiant heat in a house with cathedral ceilings? Any info on this?

[madrasahs]

Think of radiant heat as a giant, flat, cast-iron woodstove -- in the floor.

The further you get from the "woodstove" (floor), the cooler it will be.

Radiant heat doesn't rely on convection heat (heated air) to keep you warm, so you'll be warm as long as you don't spend a lot of time hanging from the chandelier.

[NH resident]

Very wrong Mr. know it all. You obviously do not realize heat rises thus you would be much warmer hanging from the chandelier. Suggest you do some research before posting.

[GWC...]

Choice and efficiency of system depends on usage. See link below image…




http://www.radiant-floor-heating.com/
http://www.radiant-floor-heating.com/graphics/hydronicinstallation-small.gif

[madrasahs]

From researching GWC's posted site:

"Radiant heat systems are more energy efficient than other forms of heat, with savings up to 40%.

"By warming the floor, you heat the room where it is needed - in the bottom 6 feet. With radiant floor heat, the heat is greatest near the floor not up near the ceiling."

[NH resident]

Heat is heat and will rise, you can't change the laws of physics. Don't believe everything you read, sounds like a sales pitch.

[Jake]

NH Resident is wrong, Madrasahs is correct. Following was taken from the Watts Radiant Heating frequently asked questions:

I'm planning a large house with high ceilings and lots of windows. Is radiant floor heating practical?

High ceilings and "lots of windows" are one of the main reasons why radiant heat is chosen as a building heating system. Since hot air rises, in a forced air heating system all of the nice, usable heat is first sent to the ceiling. This may be anywhere from 10 to 20 feet up. By the time this air makes its way to your level, about 6-ft. off the ground, it has lost most of its energy and has started to get pushed down by the other hot air entering the room. If this air is cooler than when it entered, where did all of its heat go? Right out the ceiling.

Radiant heating works in just the opposite way. Since a radiant heat system stores its energy in the floor, all of the room's warmth is kept right where it needs to be, on the floor where you are. The ceiling in a radiant floor system is always much cooler than the floor area, just the way you would want it. This cooler ceiling temperature means less energy is being wasted to the outside. Less waste means higher efficiency.




http://www.wattsradiant.com/homeowner/faqgeneral.html#6

[GWC...]

*** Don't believe everything you read... ***

[SIKSUKR]

Binz, if you had WIRES in the ceiling then you probably had electric radiant heat.I had that in my house when I bought it but installed a furnace and ran forced hot water.What is being discussed in this thread is radiant hotwater heat which is run through poly tubing in the floor.Hands down the most comfortable heat there is.You will find you also don't need to keep the temp in the house as high. SS

[Long Bay Guy]

The biggest downside is cost. I built a house recently and decided against it for that reason. The cost was dramatically more then the basic "forced hot-water" system we used. As far as efficiency, the heating contractor told me that it was less efficient then the base-board heating system we used. If money was not an issue I would have used it simply to get rid of the floor registers.

[Uncle Al]

The laws of physics state that heat does not know up or down...heat seeks cold....
Warm air rises.

[NH resident]

What a bunch of gullible people on this site regarding this issue. Oh well it takes all types, wish I had some swamp land for sale.

[rattlesnakeislandman]

captain if you would like a price on a system call me rick at 508-726-1339 will need sqft of driveway, and what type of fuel you will be using for boiler,and what type of heat do you heat with now.

[michael]

Physics aside, the most expensive areas to heat are the coldest locations. Cold air has more weight than hot air, so it is usually finds its way to the lowest spot "continually fighting against the hot air". With wood stoves, it is a good idea to place your fan on the floor at the coldest area of your dwelling, and blow the air toward the stove.Removing the lower layer of heavy air, makes it much easier for the warmer air to sink. So having the lowest ares being the source of heat, makes sense to me.
Hows the Fishing??
your humble wood burner,
michael

[Gopherit]

Do some more research, Heat radiates, hot air rises.

[Treerider]

http://www.wirsbo.com/main.php?pm=1&mm=1&sm=1&pc=homeowner/ho_mm1sm1.php

[chuck]

If you want to save some money, do it yourself. You install the wires on the floor leaving the ends open for an electrician to hook up. Try warmup.net or warmtiles.com.

[SIKSUKR]

Don't even think of putting in ELECTRIC radiant heat or you will fall over after seeing your utility bill. SS

[Upthesaukee]

I can't speak for the physics on this but two years ago we put in a 52 inch ceiling fan in our living room, where the woodstove is, and we have it running "in reverse" in the winter, blowing up to the ceiling. Seems to do a great job of "stirring" the air, and mixes the air - keeping it comfortable longer without feeling the need to add more wood. Fan speed is on low, and is on 24/7.

[Donzi]

There is always a convection current of some sort in a home heating system. You just have to know how to figure it out. Hot air is less dense than cooler air, thus it rises. Hot Air balloons anyone? Its physics and the laws are irrevocable. I would think you of the sailboat crowd would know this. LOL! I expect so much better... LOL!

Actually, all modern heating in a house is from convection. You are partially right, but you explained it wrong. Think of it this way, your standard run of the mill baseboard heaters, use hot water to heat the fins attached to the copper tubing. The fins have a certain area, measured in sq inches. The pipes heat up with the warm water, heating cooler air closer to the floor and create a convection current, cooler from the floor gets heated and rises, (usually up the walls, big difference from radint floor heating) raising the room temp, cooler air from the room drops to the floor, and gets heated then rises, creating a big circle. Radiant heat does essentially the same thing, over a much greater area. Think of your floor as a frying pan, you put it on the stove, and it transfers the heat over its total area, even though the stove burner might be smaller. Although, like a frying pan, it very rarely heats evenly. Radiant heat works in much the same way. The floor heats the air, the hot air rises, raising the room temp. The convection current usually flows down by walls & windows that are cooler than the floor. Where it gets heated and rises, thus completing the circle.

Donzi

[madrasahs]

The question asked was:
"What about radiant heat for use in homes with cathedral ceilings?"
http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/index.cgi?read=76434

In a home with radiant floor heating, if you are comfortable lying in bed, should you move to the floor, you will be overheated.

With any other form of heat, you will be colder if you move to the floor.

In a home with a cathedral ceiling (like mine) it doesn't matter whether it's warmer at the ceiling or not. I "live" in the home environment which is at six feet or less from the floor.

In my case, trying to move the stagnant, slightly warmer, moister, air at the ceiling probably would make things worse.

I have no insulation at the roof. Any heat rising there has probably already re-radiated (lost) through the roof to outside. Even if the cathedral ceiling air was measurably warmer, the very movement of air -- even slightly warmer air -- across skin tends to cool the individual.

(There would be no gain -- perhaps a loss -- in trying to move cathedral ceiling air downwards).

Radiant heat is very different from convection heat. Any comparison is apples-to-oranges.

Electrically-supplied floor radiant heat, as pictured elsewhere in this thread, may be very expensive.

The radiant heat I formerly lived in was oil-fired -- and bulletproof -- for 40 years.

[Lakegeezer]

We're looking at installing radiant heat. One of the downsides we were told is that during the spring and fall, the heat can't keep up with warm days and cold nights since it takes days to get the radiant through the substrate and wood floors. Anyone have experience with that?

[Little Bear]

We're looking at installing radiant heat. One of the downsides we were told is that during the spring and fall, the heat can't keep up with warm days and cold nights since it takes days to get the radiant through the substrate and wood floors. Anyone have experience with that?

I put radiant heat in my new house and have been in for over a year. The key to radiant heat is "set it and forget it". I keep mine at 68 deg. fall, winter and spring and never have a problem with the system adjusting as you described. I have both tile and hardwood floors, along with cathedral ceilings and it is comfortable and consistant during the entire heating season. I would highly recommend it to anyone.

[wifi]

The key here is constant vs intermittent use. One can't expect to come up for a weekend, where you have the house at 40, and expect it to reach 70 quickly. Radiant hot water is mixed more with cold and runs at even a lower temp than hot water baseboard, so it will take longer to make up a large heat differential. Like LB said, I know no one that uses it year round at a constant temp who doesn't rave about it...

[idigtractors]

I put radiant heat in my new house and have been in for over a year. The key to radiant heat is "set it and forget it". I keep mine at 68 deg. fall, winter and spring and never have a problem with the system adjusting as you described. I have both tile and hardwood floors, along with cathedral ceilings and it is comfortable and consistent during the entire heating season. I would highly recommend it to anyone.

The above statement is very true, however with todays prices of the fuel oil I believe you will find it extremely expensive to run it constant through the time period mentioned above. Radiant heat is an excellent heating source, but not on a part time used situations like a home on weekends. :)

[Lakegeezer]

The above statement is very true, however with todays prices of the fuel oil I believe you will find it extremely expensive to run it constant through the time period mentioned above. Radiant heat is an excellent heating source, but not on a part time used situations like a home on weekends. :)You get to the center of the question. For part-time, I see the point, but how about year-round heat? My current oil-FHA system stays off most of September and some of October. Only a quick blast when its chilly. Once heating season is in full swing, we use a set-back thermostat. The temperature goes down to 62 at night and is up from 6-10AM and 5-11PM. I'm having a hard time estimating the increased (or unlikely, the decrease) energy operating cost by switching to propane fired radiant.

[Little Bear]

Good points above. If this is for a weekend home where you want to drop the heat down during the week, I'd not use radiant. It takes a long time to raise the temp even a few degrees, so it may not be beneficial. On the other hand, if you use an efficient gas boiler such as a Buderus, you might just be able to leave it at a constant temp all week long without a substantial cost differential vs oil, etc. Something to think about if you ever plan to move to the house full time.

[fatlazyless]

A Buderus boiler, or furnace, and Buderus is a German company.......why not an American made boiler or furnace like Beckett or Weil-MacClane or AO Smith or Ruud or Riello or some US company?

[Hermit Cover]

The Buderus boiler to be installed in my home may be designed in Deutschland but is manufactured by Buderus Hydronic Systems, North American Headquarters in Londonderry, NH.....not far down the road....:)

[Little Bear]

A Buderus boiler, or furnace, and Buderus is a German company.......why not an American made boiler or furnace like Beckett or Weil-MacClane or AO Smith or Ruud or Riello or some US company?

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5294
Quote by FLL: "Hey IG.....haven't started it for maybe a month, but those Suzuki 4-strokes always start.......it will start! Gee...maybe I should start it before the ice-age gets here? ...best"

Hey FLL, Suzuki is a Japanese company. Why not an American made outboard like a Merc?

As Hermit Cover said, Buderus North America is in Londonderry. Very efficient boiler. Doing my part to save energy...

[Weirs guy]

The Buderus boiler to be installed in my home may be designed in Deutschland but is manufactured by Buderus Hydronic Systems, North American Headquarters in Londonderry, NH.....not far down the road....:)

I think you'll find the Londonderry plant, for the most part, assembles a bunch of stuff made in Germany to make bigger stuff that was made mostly in Germany. :(

Still good stuff, very efficient and worth the initial cost.

[Hermit Cover]

:) Thanks for the confirmation WG...my Buderus boiler IS American made....better yet...New Hampshire made....for a while I was afraid you were going to say it was assembled in Mexico or China by children for pennies on the dollar like our "American" toys or our "North Carolina" furniture ....

[Weirs guy]

:)....for a while I was afraid you were going to say it was assembled in Mexico or China by children for pennies on the dollar like our "American" toys or our "North Carolina" furniture ....

Nope, what I was saying was, I believe it was American assembled by our neighbors who earned less per hour assembling outsourced components then they could have earned had Buduerus manufactured said components in Londonderry as opposed to other locals.

But, those neighbors earned more assembling the unit then they would have at Wal-Mart, so at least theres a silver lining.

[fatlazyless]

Hey there Little Bear, shopping at the bottom don't let you be too picky for American Mercury vs Japanese Suzuki. Stumbling over my used Suzuki- boat deal was my good luck. It's a fixer-upper boat that never stops needn fixn. Hey, the boat leaks bad but the engine always works. If it was a Mercury.....(?)

Poor me.....wudda wudda!~!

[ApS]

"...One of the downsides we were told is that during the spring and fall, the heat can't keep up with warm days and cold nights since it takes days to get the radiant through the substrate and wood floors. Anyone have experience with that...?"
The problem may be the wood floor. :confused: If my woodstove radiates too much heat in one particular direction, I'll shield that side of the stove with furniture or some other object.

Wood has a fair insulating quality—"R"-value—as does carpeting. I'd suggest a decorative, conductive terrazo floor finish over the substrate. (Terrazzo is made of marble chips set in mortar, then polished.) Terrazzo is also cooler in the summer when the heat would be expected to be off.

It's possible that the thermostat setting may be set lower without intervening insulation. If my feet are warm, then all of me is warm. :)

As for weekends, why not try programming the heat for only Friday and Saturday? It will be slowly returning to "economy" temperatures after you've left on Sunday.

Disclaimer: My experience with radiant heat was in the days when cheap copper pipe was used in the substrate. :rolleye1:

[Weirs guy]

Wood has a fair insulating quality—"R"-value—as does carpeting. I'd suggest a decorative, conductive terrazo floor finish over the substrate. (Terrazzo is made of marble chips set in mortar, then polished.) Terrazzo is also cooler in the summer when the heat would be expected to be off.


SALES PITCH WARNING!!

For those interested a sister company of the one I work at (http://www.wattsradiant.com/icat/) has a product called HeatWeave that is basically an electronic "mat" that can be installed under such tile (or other flooring) to provide radiant heat on a room - by - room basis. Handy for cold bathroom floors.