Should A Petition Be Started For Redding Lane Intersection? [Archive]

woodynh

12-08-2009, 11:24 PM

I was reading the post for the accident that happened on Route 25 and it kind of turned into a post about how dangerous the Redding Lane intersection can be.

I understand that it was researched and determined to be the most dangerous intersection in Moultonboro but people got a petition together and actually are getting something done about the fox hollow intersection.

So I am wondering if there is enough support to do the same for the Redding Lane intersection?

Also wondering how one would start something like this and get the process started?

Argie's Wife

12-09-2009, 01:04 AM

twoplustwo

12-09-2009, 07:56 AM

...but I'd certainly sign it. I know the Sheridan Road folks are doing the same thing after the dump truck fiasco there earlier this year.

Lakesrider

12-09-2009, 10:18 AM

I'll sign. But I missed what happened with a dump truck?:(

breathe easy

12-09-2009, 12:10 PM

Check with the town administrator before starting the petition because he/she would be able to advise you on not just whom to direct your request to but also assist you with the wording of it to make sure you're getting what you're asking for... (I believe in this case it will be a state road and therefore would go to the DOT but check to be sure...)

To get a petioned warrant article for town meeting only requires the signatures of at least 25 registered voters on a petition. The signed petition needs to be presented to the town clerks office before early February. The town can't refuse to place a citizens petition on the warrant. The wording is what is key. It should be as simple and concise as possible and asking for specific actions. Getting it pased at town meeting will be the challenge. I know that Sheridan Road is petitioning something and there are some well connected citizens on that street.

LIforrelaxin

12-09-2009, 01:22 PM

woodynh

12-09-2009, 06:31 PM

So I came across this thread and the first thing I am left wondering is what do you think can be done at Redding Lane to help traffic..... Oh I know another traffic light.... Folks I know this sounds like a good idea.... but traffic on 25 is already bad enough. Do you want to make it worse?

Becareful what you ask for, you might actually get it.

You are correct probably a stop light would be best not sure we need that but I would like to see at the very least a turning lane. There is not enough room for people to squeeze by if you are turning on Redding from Rt 25 and they are closing at 45 to 50 mph {speed limit is 45mph) and sometimes don't realize there is no room until the last minute if they are not familular with the area. I have had at least three times in the last year where people came within less then a foot of rearending me. Two of those I actually got off the brakes and rolled forward.

Then probably lower the speed limit both ways in that area so it is safer to pull out and lower impact when you get rearended turning in to Redding Lane.

Need to put more thought into this and then talk to the town and see if it is fesible to start a petition.

I agree that Fox Hollow is bad also but they don't have nearly the volume of traffic turning there that Redding Lane and Sheridan Road does.

hazelnut

12-09-2009, 07:08 PM

You are correct probably a stop light would be best not sure we need that but I would like to see at the very least a turning lane. There is not enough room for people to squeeze by if you are turning on Redding from Rt 25 and they are closing at 45 to 50 mph {speed limit is 45mph) and sometimes don't realize there is no room until the last minute if they are not familular with the area. I have had at least three times in the last year where people came within less then a foot of rearending me. Two of those I actually got off the brakes and rolled forward.

Then probably lower the speed limit both ways in that area so it is safer to pull out and lower impact when you get rearended turning in to Redding Lane.

Need to put more thought into this and then talk to the town and see if it is fesible to start a petition.

I agree that Fox Hollow is bad also but they don't have nearly the volume of traffic turning there that Redding Lane and Sheridan Road does.

A turning lane would be a great idea. The street itself Redding Lane is angled so weird there that it is tough to turn on to 25 as it is. That is such a tough intersection from both directions, turning on or off of Redding.

Argie's Wife

12-10-2009, 12:17 AM

To get a petioned warrant article for town meeting only requires the signatures of at least 25 registered voters on a petition. The signed petition needs to be presented to the town clerks office before early February. The town can't refuse to place a citizens petition on the warrant. The wording is what is key. It should be as simple and concise as possible and asking for specific actions. Getting it pased at town meeting will be the challenge. I know that Sheridan Road is petitioning something and there are some well connected citizens on that street.

I didn't take the question as being for a petition warrant article but more as a petition to request a hearing on getting the intersection corrected.

A petition warrant article still should be reviewed by the town's attorney (which is at NO cost to the person sponsoring the petition warrant article.) I've seen some half-baked Warrant articles come up and immediately fail because they were not well written.

The road can't be fixed by the town if it is a state road - and I believe it is - as that would have to be processed through the NH DOT.

wifi

12-10-2009, 07:21 AM

Maybe just prohibit all left hand turns at that intersection, that ought to stop most of the accidents and also annoy people enough to sign the petition :laugh:

breathe easy

12-10-2009, 08:18 AM

Check with the town administrator before starting the petition because he/she would be able to advise you on not just whom to direct your request to but also assist you with the wording of it to make sure you're getting what you're asking for... (I believe in this case it will be a state road and therefore would go to the DOT but check to be sure...)

Remember that the town administrator works for the selectmen and not you and I. Fox Hollow did not get approved due to a petition. It was approved because of influential citizens. The actual warrant articles we voted on at town meeting were written ( and supported) by the town and also approved by the budget committee.

SAMIAM

12-10-2009, 08:34 AM

That's worth checking out...doesn't someone on one of the boards have a developement going in there?

Argie's Wife

12-10-2009, 08:56 AM

Remember that the town administrator works for the selectmen and not you and I. Fox Hollow did not get approved due to a petition. It was approved because of influential citizens. The actual warrant articles we voted on at town meeting were written ( and supported) by the town and also approved by the budget committee.

Sorry but that's not true. The town administrator is paid by tax payers' dollars. It is a public position and therefore they work for the citizens of the town. In an organizational chart they would be under the selectmen but guess who "hires" the selectmen? The voters do.

Personally, I have found our town administrator to be very helpful and a great resource. Why waste time directing a petition to the wrong department or whatever when a five minute phone call could help clarify who does what...

I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with your petition warrant article or the proactive citizens but nonetheless - kudos to them for bringing about a positive change to things - I love to see people proactive in the management of their town and wished more people would get involved. By the way - budget committees and selectmen have no say in the approval of petition warrant articles in SB-2 - there's is no wording on the ballot like "Recommended by the Selectmen; Recommended by the Budget Committee".... UNLESS there will be money appropriated from the budget for the petition warrant article, if it passes....

breathe easy

12-10-2009, 09:42 AM

By the way - budget committees and selectmen have no say in the approval of petition warrant articles in SB-2 - there's is no wording on the ballot like "Recommended by the Selectmen; Recommended by the Budget Committee".... UNLESS there will be money appropriated from the budget for the petition warrant article, if it passes....

Wrong. That law was changed before last years town meeting and a town can ( and Moultonboro did) indicate on the ballot for both SB2 ( not recommended by the BoS and ABC) and all warrant articles, along with the the "advisory" budget committee their recommendations and vote tally.
http://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Pages/MoultonboroughNH_BOS/TownWarrant2009.pdf

LIforrelaxin

12-10-2009, 10:37 AM

Of the ideas brought up in this thread. I believe the most resonable request to put before the Town, or the state, which ever is the controlling body in that area for Rt 25 would be to look at a speed limit reduction. I have often thought that it would be perfectly fine to maintain a 35 mph limit comming out from Center Harbor to the stop light at The Neck Rd. .

The Costs for this are minimal in comparison to other idea.... Some new speed signs, and then enforcement from the Police, to make people notice.

All other idea's will require major work.... which will make traffic a mess, as well as cost considerable more money.\

By the way I travel this area all the time, I know the problem.... But realize this the problem isn't there all the time, only when traffic is busy......

Pineedles

12-10-2009, 10:42 AM

How about a rotary? :laugh:

LIforrelaxin

12-10-2009, 10:49 AM

How about a rotary? :laugh:

are you trying to "neddle" the situation..... and get people wound up......:laugh::D:laugh::D

Yosemite Sam

12-10-2009, 11:08 AM

LIforrelaxin

12-10-2009, 01:03 PM

Did everyone in this forum who is commenting on what to do about turning left onto Redding lane know that the driver who rear-ended the vehicle in that latest accident was arrested after the accident.
That’s right, the driver (Crystal A. Squeglia, 23 of Meredith) was arrested and charged with negligent driving, unregistered motor vehicle and misuse of plates.

So IMHO, I don’t care what you do to improve that area, there will still be people out there just like Squelia that will ram into you even if there is a full time officer standing there with his flashing blue lights on. They just don’t know the meaning of responsibility.

Yosemite Sam, While I will agree with you that it is an interesting turn of events in the last accident. This fact alone doesn't mitigate the need for something to be done in that area.

As mentioned previously I travel as many of us do through there all the time. When the Gas Station is Busy, traffic is heavy, and people are trying to get on and off Redding lane there is an issue. In my estimation, it was poor planning when the Gas station was allowed to build there the way they did.

The Quesiton is what can be done. To help reduce the risk of accident. you are never going to completely resolve the situation. Because you can never count on an irresponsibility not happening.

The question is 2 fold can something be done to easy the problem.... many suggested already seen here say yes..... the second question, is what is the best option....

Yosemite Sam

12-10-2009, 01:20 PM

The question is 2 fold can something be done to easy the problem.... many suggested already seen here say yes..... the second question, is what is the best option....

I think a left turn only lane in that area would work just fine.

breathe easy

12-10-2009, 03:29 PM

LIforrelaxin

12-10-2009, 03:34 PM

The town doesn't have the final say on this, it's a state road and the DOT has to be involved. In the engineering study for Fox Hollow a few months back, what seemed like simple solutions became big problems. One solution from the engineers to improve the sight line on rt 25 was to lower the roadway..... a full 6 feet! In all this time, there is still no firm plan to fix Fox Hollow within the amount that the town budgeted and the selectmen have said publicly that they may not be able to fix it as plannned.
A left turn lane sounds great, but look at how hard it was to get a right turn lane onto Moultonborough Neck road.

That is why I suggested if people want to try and work towards something that would help, they need to look at the simplest easiestly implimented options 1st.

Slowing people down in this area would be the right first step..... I already slow down in the area.... so hell it wouldn't even be noticed by someone cautious like me.

Redsoxlover

12-10-2009, 04:55 PM

That's worth checking out...doesn't someone on one of the boards have a developement going in there?

Yes, which is what started the whole need to fix the "dangerous" entrance. Another landowner went before the board for approval to build a 10 lot phase one development and all heck broke loose. They paid $ for some of the road study, they were put through the wringer imo and have since given up. The board members husband has been fighting for the change because it will be to their benefit when they start their development. I attended all the meetings and couldn't believe what I was hearing. It is not fun getting in and out of Fox Hollow, but pulling strings should not have bumped us to the top of the list.

ARV

12-10-2009, 09:33 PM

Where to begin...

To address the purpose of the thread, I for one would be willing to sign a petition to look into what can be done for the Redding Lane intersection. I understand there are a lot of skeptics who really don't think anything can really be done, but I truly believe that if we all put our heads together and spread the word, someone will come up with a good enough idea and plan to put something forward. I like the idea of a left turn lane...what about stretching out Redding Lane so that the intersection is wider as well? That way, it's not such a weird turn going onto Redding Lane and also might give drivers more room to turn right onto 25 from Redding Lane.

I know that two wrongs don't make a right - but what if "we" got some support from some important town's people just like what the folks did with Mr. Lamprey? Also, it was my understanding that the Fox Hollow intersection got bumped up on the list because of the petition, not the "person". I thought I read that in one of the Select Board's minutes (although, I scoured them as best I could and could not find it).

Everyone seems like they are in agreement that this intersection has always been on the top of the list.

The Sheridan Road DOT Truck crash was a pretty big MVA, but compared to the amount of crashes at Redding Lane, IMHO that should take precedence.

Argie's Wife

12-11-2009, 08:23 AM

Wrong. That law was changed before last years town meeting and a town can ( and Moultonboro did) indicate on the ballot for both SB2 ( not recommended by the BoS and ABC) and all warrant articles, along with the the "advisory" budget committee their recommendations and vote tally.
http://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Pages/MoultonboroughNH_BOS/TownWarrant2009.pdf

I was at a budget committee meeting last night and verified that no, they do not have to advise on warrant articles that do not have a fiscal impact (aka "special warrant articles). I have confirmed this from representatives from two towns (Alton and Barnstead). Also see RSA 40:13, V. It would make NO SENSE for them to advise on non-budget related items - I can't imagine why anyone would think that was logical. The link you provided does not have any warrant articles that do not have a fiscal impact, as best I can tell (I didn't study it - it was a huge document.) The only thing that changed last year was the placement of vote counts on the warrants from the BOS or School Board and the Budget Committee.

-------

It sounds like there's a great grassroots effort to fix this very dangerous situation.

REDSOXLVR - Any chance that developer would be willing to share his findings from the road study? Depending on how old it is, it might be fodder for your argument on why the road is dangerous and needs to be re-engineered. It would be in his benefit to share his information - it might help him in his cause for the new development.

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SAMIAM

12-11-2009, 08:41 AM

I agree with Yosemite........a third lane is the best and cheapest solution to our traffic problems.As it is now,all traffic comes to a stop whenever someone has to wait to make a turn.A left turn lane keeps things moving and lessens the chance that an impatient driver will try a risky move.It works well in other towns......and I promise not to complain if they have to take land in front of the VK .

breathe easy

12-11-2009, 09:42 AM

I was at a budget committee meeting last night and verified that no, they do not have to advise on warrant articles that do not have a fiscal impact (aka "special warrant articles). I have confirmed this from representatives from two towns (Alton and Barnstead). Also see RSA 40:13, V. It would make NO SENSE for them to advise on non-budget related items - I can't imagine why anyone would think that was logical. The link you provided does not have any warrant articles that do not have a fiscal impact, as best I can tell (I didn't study it - it was a huge document.) The only thing that changed last year was the placement of vote counts on the warrants from the BOS or School Board and the Budget Committee.

. Still wrong AW. I'm really not making this up and yes it is illogical, but they did it anyway. The link I provided did have many warrant articles with no financial impact. You should have read through the rest of the town warrant and you would have seen all the articles voted on by the ABC , monetary or not.
The law does not require they vote, but last year they did and they voted 5-0 on every article.
Here is the law that was changed this year:
RSA 40:13 V-a. (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/III/40/40-13.htm) Any town may vote to require that all votes by an advisory budget committee, a town budget committee, and the governing body or, in towns without a budget committee, all votes of the governing body relative to budget items or any warrant articles shall be recorded votes and the numerical tally of any such vote shall be printed in the town warrant next to the affected warrant article. If a town has not voted to require such tallies to be printed in the town warrant next to the affected warrant article, the governing body may do so on its own initiative.

The Selectmen were questioned about the legality of this last year as the law was passed just prior to ballot day and town meeting and Betsey Patten told us it was legal and that Town Counsel agreed. It's in the minutes (http://www.moultonborough.org/Pages/MoultonboroughNH_BOSMin/02-12-2009.pdf)

Argie's Wife

12-11-2009, 05:27 PM

I find it hard to believe I had six elected officials from two budget committees, and two school board members from two school boards not know the laws pertaining to how they operate, including advising on non-fiscal-related special warrant articles. I had this from the horse's mouth last night... maybe a call to the DRA is in order.... Per the meeting minutes the person making the recommendation did not cite any legal council at all... I'm curious they read into it wrong or if two towns are wrong in their practice.

If that is indeed the practice of Moultonboro, then they forgot to vote on the articles presented by the Planning Board (Articles 3 - 6). I see where they voted on petition (special) warrant articles, but all of them will have a fiscal impact. Sorry but I've read through all of the Warrants on the link you posted and all call for some action that will impact the budget or definition of trust funds, or town government (time = money) in some way.

Lucky1

12-11-2009, 08:26 PM

Wow. Is there a record of the accidents that have happened at that intersection? That is where I might start?

trfour

12-11-2009, 09:07 PM

That section of highway has been tough, from an safety standpoint, for as long as I can remember in my many road trips around the Lake and going to Tamworth since the early 1990's... The State of the budget in these times are less than adequate as we can all understand. However, we deserve safety first, and NHDOT needs to take advantage of the Government Stimulus monies to fix said highway and save lives in the process.

Yosemite Sam

12-11-2009, 10:13 PM

Wow. Is there a record of the accidents that have happened at that intersection? That is where I might start?

http://www.moultonborough.org/Pages/MoultonboroughNH_Admin/presentations/Reports/FinalMatrixReport111408.pdf

Redding Lane comes in as #3 for number of accidents from 2000 to 2008.
See below report:

ApS

12-12-2009, 06:10 AM

"...a third lane is the best and cheapest solution to our traffic problems..."
I dunno.

As FLL recently pointed out (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7795), staying on "your side" of a yellow line is no big deal to the NH Supreme Court. :(

In all the Lakes Region, I've never seen the quantity of articulated logging trucks that travel that roadway. :eek2: As we saw, having one's wheels turned invites a "punt" from behind (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8972) into oncoming traffic :eek: traveling at 55-MPH!?!?!

Slowing traffic in both directions seems to be the best and cheapest solution; after all, if you're on Rt. 25 in the first place, you can't be in much of a hurry! :emb:

Argie's Wife

12-12-2009, 08:43 AM

Wow. Is there a record of the accidents that have happened at that intersection? That is where I might start?

Yes- NH DOT would have it.

phoenix

12-12-2009, 12:42 PM

last I saw in the paper stimulus money of ~600k is paying for the fox hollow/ rt 25 redo.

hazelnut

12-12-2009, 03:34 PM

With the Rob's Irving gas station in the current state it is in this is a perfect opportunity to take some land from that property to redo that intersection in the form of some widening of the road in that stretch in order to make a turning lane.

Lucky1

12-12-2009, 04:20 PM

Widening Rte 25 seems like a great idea to me if one could get some of the land from the now vacant gas station as well as the undeveloped land before Redding Lane heading North?

As for not being in a hurry if you are on Rte 25 anyway, I guess some are going to want go fast to make the post office or the transfer station before the close when they leave late or if there is some appointment they are racing to get to on time? People speed and on a narrow road with a curve, that can be dangerous. Maybe have more police there too?

tummyman

12-13-2009, 07:23 AM

tc_mike

12-14-2009, 01:00 PM

With all the great suggestions made in this post, PLEASE do not overlook the problem of trying to EXIT from Redding Lane onto RT25. Attempting to enter RT25 westbound id a very difficult process, especially in the warmer months. Any redesign must address this problem as well.....and I have no idea what that solution might be, although one thought is an on-demand traffic light. There must be other more reasonable ideas. But lets be sure this problem gets addressed as well.

This is a good point. Taking a left onto 25 from Redding can be almost impossible at times. One's only hope is for a car to come along from the direction of Rob's and stop to take a left onto Redding. This blocks traffic in one direction (assuming the turning driver is considerate) and provides a fighiting chance of taking the left onto 25. A turning lane would make this situation worse for exiters, I would think, since traffic would then hum along in both directions unabated.

Nagigator

12-14-2009, 05:54 PM

We stay on Redding Lane and have adapted coping methods in the busy times. Heading out for errands in the morning, we always go right and head east to get gas, Ledgewood Farm, the Country Store, the VK, ect. Then down the hill to Center Harbor to Heaths, or perhaps down to Moulton Farm and Meredith. Then back up to Redding Lane where we usually do not leave the road again except on foot or by boat. It is a nasty intersection and one tough place to get out of.We're not up there much in the winter, I can only imagine adding bad weather and early dark to the mix. Hopefully a solution can be found. Be careful out there!