Power Outages Saturday

[This'nThat]

How widespread are the power outages? Looks like all of Alton's out, and the Co-op is reporting >10,000 across the area. Anybody have generators? How useful are the generators?

It looks as though this is caused by the wind. Are trees down across the area?

[Slickcraft]

We got power back about 3:25 pm.

While the small Honda 2Kw generator we have does not replace line power, we had it running the pellet stove and then alternating between the refrig, microwave to heat lunch and the furnace for a while to heat the upstairs.

So I would definitely say it is useful. During last winter's ice storm outage we had heat, lights and microwave food; better than most had it.

[DRH]

Like Slickcraft, we got power back about 3:25 pm after about a 4-hour outage. We listened to a handheld scanner during the outage and the very high winds had knocked trees down throughout the area. Here on the shore of the lake we had periods of continuous wind 35 - 45 mph, and our weather station recorded a gust of 62 mph at 12:24 pm. Many other gusts exceeded 50 mph. It's calming down now (4:05pm), and the average wind speed is now 10 - 15 mph. The lake this afternoon was about the roughest we have ever seen it. Nevertheless, we did see a couple boats out there.

[robmac]

I have always had a generator,back during the ice storm of 98 I powered our house including Xmas lights for the week. I found it to be a life saver as I have 2 large dogs that are tough to find a hotel that'll allow them to stay in. Looks like a long cold winter.

[riverat]

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p277/riverat2000/HPIM5337_1024x763.jpg

[Lake Lady 6]

This is the first power outage since we bought a generator - should have done it years ago. At 6500 W it powers our heat, lights, septic pump, water pump, refrigerator, etc. (do not suggest turning everything on all at once).
Never want to go through a week like the ice storm of '08 ever again.

[dpg]

Generally how do generators work? I understand they should definitely be hooked up by a licensed electrician. Also, I've heard they cannot be powering the home when the regular power kicks on. Is this true? Do you turn off the main power supply when running them or something just in case?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

dpg,
You can't have a condition where the power from your generator can send power to the pole. The general concept is to have an electrician add a transfer switch. They come in many styles with manual and automatic features. Here is an example of a 30 Amp 4 circuit box. You could pick 4 circuits you want to run during the outage. Well, Furnace, Fridge, TV.

The box is mounted next to your existing circuit panel. The transfer box "if installed correctly" makes it safe to choose if you power 1 or more of the circuits from the pole or from the generator. When the power comes back on, the other circuits in your place will power up. The switched circuits will still be on the generator until you throw the transfer switches.

[Slickcraft]

Reliance makes a series of transfer switches like the one that RG showed. We have the single circuit version wired into the furnace circuit, good product and very easy to install. Used it yesterday.
Plug the generator and flip the switch from "Line" to "Gen".
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TF151W

[ishoot308]

When we added a generator to our house a few years back, it was cheaper to replace the entire electrical box to one with a generator switch built in. It makes it rather convenient as you can run any circuit you want in the house and does not limit you to just the gen-tran circuits.

Dan

[Yosemite Sam]

I put a transfer switch in and hooked up a 7500w generator to it. I removed the power inlet connection from the transfer switch and put a power inlet box outside so that I can plug the generator in from the outside. I also bought a small storage container that I put my generator in and keep it outside. I put the storage container close to the inlet box so that now I can just plug it in without going inside the house. This works great and I recommend it to anyone who plans on putting in a transfer switch.
The generator that I have has a low idle switch on it that keeps the generator at low idle until it reaches a certain wattage demand. I think it stays on low idle until it reaches 500w and then it will go on high speed. I paid a little extra for it but it saves on gas and the noise level is lower at low idle.
They are pretty easy to install and only takes about 2 hours to do it. It took me a little longer because as I stated above I put the inlet connection outside.
Make sure that you start your generator up on a regular basis and run it for about 15-20 minutes. This will keep the engine lubricated so that the generator will start when you need it.

[mbhoward]

DPG-"Generally how do generators work? I understand they should definitely be hooked up by a licensed electrician."

I would get a licensed electrician to do all the work, as long as the generator is a substantial unit meant to power your house (or most of it) during an outage. Ours is propane powered so we hooked it into the main tank at the house. Only a few of the heavy hitters are left powerless, such as the electric range. We have a panel that will automatically start the generator if power goes out, switch to generator, then monitor the outside power line and when power comes back on, it will automatically switch back and shut off the generator.

It also starts the generator every week for 15 minutes to make sure everything works. It makes it brain dead simple and I recommend it! When you factor in the cost of the panel that has all the 'brains' and the time to set it all up, it didn't add that much to the whole project. Still, I guess it depends on the electrical load you want a generator to handle.

The first step is to go through the house, add up all the electrical items you want powered, then get a correctly sized generator that can handle the load. Then you will have an idea on the cost and if it is too much, then scale back what items will be powered until you can get a generator that is more affordable.

We went through an ice storm in '98 and swore we would never be so helpless again.

[fatlazyless]

A small Jotul 602 wood stove and a battery powered headlight is all one needs.....just like back in Norway - 1944. Along with a Thirsty Mate billge pump. a 5-gal bucket, and a 4" ice fish'n auger for drill'n the ice to access the water.........minimilsm rules!

The Jotul 602 is the most popular wood stove ever made with over 1,000,000 units manfactored in Norway and sold all over. How Finland, Sweden and Norway got through the winters of 1942-1945 without much heating coal or oil.

[Yosemite Sam]

DPG-"Generally how do generators work? I understand they should definitely be hooked up by a licensed electrician."

I would get a licensed electrician to do all the work, as long as the generator is a substantial unit meant to power your house (or most of it) during an outage. Ours is propane powered so we hooked it into the main tank at the house. Only a few of the heavy hitters are left powerless, such as the electric range. We have a panel that will automatically start the generator if power goes out, switch to generator, then monitor the outside power line and when power comes back on, it will automatically switch back and shut off the generator.

It also starts the generator every week for 15 minutes to make sure everything works. It makes it brain dead simple and I recommend it! When you factor in the cost of the panel that has all the 'brains' and the time to set it all up, it didn't add that much to the whole project. Still, I guess it depends on the electrical load you want a generator to handle.

The first step is to go through the house, add up all the electrical items you want powered, then get a correctly sized generator that can handle the load. Then you will have an idea on the cost and if it is too much, then scale back what items will be powered until you can get a generator that is more affordable.

We went through an ice storm in '98 and swore we would never be so helpless again.


Everything automatic is definitely the way to go if you have the money and don't need to use your generator for anything else other than your house.
I do home renovations as a part time job and use my generator to run my compressor and power tools when there isn't any AC power available.
I also have a 750w inverter hooked to my car battery that I use to run small power tools and my laptop computer. I attached the inverter beside the battery and ran a line into the cab of my truck so that I can plug everything into it...works great.

[Seeker]

I agree an automatic transfer switch is the way to go. We lost power at 11:30 yesterday and are still out with the generator cranking away. PSNH swung in where the tree is on the wires, determined the line was live and maybe ASSUMED we had power because my neighbor and I both have generators.
We power the pump, refrig, some lights, tv, freezer, detached garage - 6 circuits in all. Looking back I should have done 8. I have a 10KW Generac running off propane. Definitely use a licensed electrician for the install.

[This'nThat]

DPG-"Generally how do generators work? I understand they should definitely be hooked up by a licensed electrician."

The first step is to go through the house, add up all the electrical items you want powered, then get a correctly sized generator that can handle the load. Then you will have an idea on the cost and if it is too much, then scale back what items will be powered until you can get a generator that is more affordable.
Follow this link (http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/security/emergency-power2.htm)to "How things work", and you'll get a basic understanding about generators. When you add up the power requirements, be sure to get the normal operating power as well as the surge power requirements, and size your generator based upon continual operation as well as surge. For example, you might purchase a 5,000W generator. But unless that generator has several thousands of surge watts, then you really can't run appliances totaling 5,000W.

Consider the following devices. Suppose you have them all hooked to your generator.

<TABLE cellPadding=3 width=400 align=center bgColor=#eef4f6 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER>Microwave oven</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>750 watts</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1,000 watts surge</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>Furnace fan</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>750 watts</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1,500 watts surge</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>Refrigerator</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1,000 watts</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>2,000 watts surge</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>Well pump</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>2,400 watts</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3,600 watts surge</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

You would need a 5,000W generator to run all 4 devices at once. However, that generator needs to have an 6,100W surge rating. Why? Because the worst case is when the Well pump turns on when the uWave oven, furnance fan, and fridge are also running. Those 3 devices consume 2,500 watts. When the Well pump turns on, it requires an additional 3,600W for a short time, pushing the Generator to 6,100W for that short time, before settling back down to a constant 4,900W. This all assumes that no two or more devices turn on at exactly the same time, of course.

[topwater]

One thing I would like to add to all of this great information. I also have a set -up like this with a 750watt generator, which I keep in my garage. I can have my house back on line with power with-in 10 minutes. However during the cold winter months if you store your generator outdoors (inside garage) the oil can get very slugish and thick, making it harder to start your generator. I have found an electric magnetic heater that attaches to the bottom of the oil pan to keep your oil thinner and much easier to start. Just attach, plug in, and your good to go. In the middle of Feb, it DOES make a difference.

[meredith weekender]

One thing I would like to add to all of this great information. I also have a set -up like this with a 750watt generator, which I keep in my garage. I can have my house back on line with power with-in 10 minutes. However during the cold winter months if you store your generator outdoors (inside garage) the oil can get very slugish and thick, making it harder to start your generator. I have found an electric magnetic heater that attaches to the bottom of the oil pan to keep your oil thinner and much easier to start. Just attach, plug in, and your good to go. In the middle of Feb, it DOES make a difference.The magnet heater seems like a great idea but are you leaving the heater on all the time???? If you wait to use it, then you have no power to turn it on, so it seems as thought it would be turned on constantly. What is the cost to run this magnet heater 24 / 7??????

[This'nThat]

The magnet heater seems like a great idea but are you leaving the heater on all the time???? If you wait to use it, then you have no power to turn it on, so it seems as thought it would be turned on constantly. What is the cost to run this magnet heater 24 / 7??????
You can buy these for around $50-$60. They typically just plug in to a 120v outlet, and consume 200w (equivalent to two reading-lamps). If you leave it plugged in 24/7, you would use 4.8 KWH. @15c/KWH, this will cost you about 75c/day, or $22/month.

[topwater]

I believe I payed around $25 at home depot for it, however that was about 8 years ago. And yes all you do is plug it into a regular 120 volt outlet and it will keep your oil warm and thinner. When you need your generator, just unplug your heater, remove it from your generator, which is only held on by magnets, and then you can move your generator anywhere you want. Sounds to simply, but really works that nicely.

[SIKSUKR]

I'm not a licensed electrician and have used mine in many power outages at my own house and others in need. It's not dedicated and is portable for exactly that reason. Very simple to wire it to a double pole breaker in your panel and leave it in the off position. Simply start your generator, turn off your main breaker, and then switch on the breaker to your generator. I have a 5000 that will run everything in my house except big items like the stove and oven. I always have my fridge, water pump, furnace, tv's, lights and even outside lights in use to show the neighbors I'm comfy! To see if your power has been restored, simply shut off the breaker to the gen and turn on the main.

[Yosemite Sam]

I'm not a licensed electrician and have used mine in many power outages at my own house and others in need. It's not dedicated and is portable for exactly that reason. Very simple to wire it to a double pole breaker in your panel and leave it in the off position. Simply start your generator, turn off your main breaker, and then switch on the breaker to your generator. I have a 5000 that will run everything in my house except big items like the stove and oven. I always have my fridge, water pump, furnace, tv's, lights and even outside lights in use to show the neighbors I'm comfy! To see if your power has been restored, simply shut off the breaker to the gen and turn on the main.


Forget to throw the main breaker and you can backfeed through the power companies lines and KILL the poor lineman who's trying to get your power back on.
A transfer switch is not that expensive and if you know how to backfeed thru a double pole breaker, you can hookup a transfer switch.
I suggest you give this some serious thought.

[SIKSUKR]

Forget to throw the main breaker and you can backfeed through the power companies lines and KILL the poor lineman who's trying to get your power back on.
A transfer switch is not that expensive and if you know how to backfeed thru a double pole breaker, you can hookup a transfer switch.
I suggest you give this some serious thought.

First of all,all lineman wear protective gear to prevent this.What lineman in their right mind would grab onto any line with an unprotected hand?Even if they did it would virtually impossible to kill a lineman with 5000 watts for one second.As soon as you try to feed the neighborhood the generator stalls in an instant from the load.I'm not condoning this,as I clearly pointed out in my prior post,shut the main off first before feeding the gen power.If anybody is too dumb to understand this procedure,I would not attempt it.I suggest everybody give this some serious thought.

[Yosemite Sam]

First of all,all lineman wear protective gear to prevent this.What lineman in their right mind would grab onto any line with an unprotected hand?Even if they did it would virtually impossible to kill a lineman with 5000 watts for one second.As soon as you try to feed the neighborhood the generator stalls in an instant from the load.I'm not condoning this,as I clearly pointed out in my prior post,shut the main off first before feeding the gen power.If anybody is too dumb to understand this procedure,I would not attempt it.I suggest everybody give this some serious thought.

Feel better? I hope so. Now go to the store of your choice and buy a transfer switch. Also if anyone asks you to hook up a generator to their circuit panel via a double pole breaker, or maybe even their 220v clothes dryer outlet, tell them no.

[wifi]

... or maybe even their 220v clothes dryer outlet....

How did you know? Were you peeking at my house? :laugh:

[Yosemite Sam]

How did you know? Were you peeking at my house? :laugh:


:eek: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Dr. Green]

IF you are looking for just a small amount of power - for an outage lasting a short time, or enough time to finish a movie or finish working on a document on your computer, you can get a Battery Back-Up at Sustain Ability. See http://www.sustainabilitynh.com/products.php?product=battery-back-up-power
The largest model has a run time of 70 minutes, with 450 watts of power, and phone and cable modem surge protection built in. $110. A smaller battery back-up unit provides 15 minutes of power and costs just $54.

I know this isn't in the range of running your clothes dryer... but if you just want to assure you don't lose data, or can finish a few tasks before shutting down and losing power, these can be very helpful.

[wifi]

Not including the dryer outlet mounted on the outside of my house, in case I wanted to move the dryer outside :laugh:

I have two strings of 1000AH batteries wired into a couple of UPS's that supply my computer (is there anything else in life?), some lights, TV and a few other 'essential' things. The coffee comes from the gas stove heating the H2O.

A little Yankee ingenuity with multiple energy sources is essential, IMHO.