Taxes

[jetskier]

Hi all,

Just got my Laconia tax bill and I was a bit surprised with the increases. It looks like the tax rate pretty much doubled and they reassessed. Of course, valuations went up; not sure how that works in this economy. Did others also see a marked jump in their tax bills?

Jetskier:cool:

[jmen24]

My taxes went down 5% while the evaluation stayed the same.

1900SF 3 bedroom with hardwood and custom millwork throughout on a 3/4 acre lot.
Town's value is about 35% lower than current market value and we were just revalued town wide last year. Taxes still are under 3K a year, I really love living in one of the lowest tax rate town in the state. (Town tax rate that is)

My parents home in Loudon is exactly the same with 500sf less and no hardwood, their taxes are over 6K.

[LIforrelaxin]

Moultonborough the assessment value actually went down on my families property. This was a change in the Valuation of the land itself. The building is still valuated the same. However this was a big surprise as our property is on the water.

On the flipside I believe, that that Tax Rate went up some. I am not sure how much as I haven't looked at last years Tax bill. But some....

However the net result. Is that the Tax bill in total is actually down. Which makes me happy, and impressed.

[Argie's Wife]

In Alton, our taxes are staying right about the same - 11.83. Assessments recently went down a good bit...

[tummyman]

Concerning Moultonborough, the tax rate per thousand (mill rate) this year went from $7.66 to $7.70...a slight increase. But don't get too comfortable. A couple of things are about to change. Effective July 1, 2011, the state will revert back to Donor towns to support education unless the governor does something to change a law that has already been passed and is on the books. The last time Moultonborough was a donor town, the state portion of the tax rate was over $2.80 more than it is currently. What if that rate went up by $3.00...an increase of this amount in the state tax would increase your bill by almost 40%. How are you feeling now? Also, the Carroll County folks (Our BOS member and State Rep Betsy Patten is part of this...) are looking at a major nursing home rebuild that is projected to cost maybe $23 million for 103 beds, which will also add to local taxes. Not everyone on the water saw decreases in valuations this past year. It all depends on sales within what Vision Appraisal calls neighborhoods. Maybe this past year you were blessed with a low property sale that meant reduced valuations. But once there is a significant sale at higher rates...bound to happen, you will get royally impacted. My "neighborhood" had one sale and it increased our assessments by over 17% on land alone....due to a fluke that Vision did not want to address. Now we have another property for sale that is offered less than the current assessed value. So we are all anxious to see that sale go down and reduce our assessed values. Just be careful....Moultonborough has wild swings in assessed values, all depending on sales in neighborhoods. One year you feel great and the next year you get hit hard. And then the town may do more things to hike things...like the Community Center funding, Fox Hollow Road, etc .etc. Don't spend those lower tax dollars now...put them into the bank or under the mattress, as you will pay sooner or later.

[Yosemite Sam]

Hi all,

Just got my Laconia tax bill and I was a bit surprised with the increases. It looks like the tax rate pretty much doubled and they reassessed. Of course, valuations went up; not sure how that works in this economy. Did others also see a marked jump in their tax bills?

Jetskier:cool:


I have never heard of the tax rate doubling and also the assessed value going up at the same time.
Can you tell me what the difference in the tax rate was from this billing to the one before that?

[LIforrelaxin]

Concerning Moultonborough, the tax rate per thousand (mill rate) this year went from $7.66 to $7.70...a slight increase. But don't get too comfortable. A couple of things are about to change. Effective July 1, 2011, the state will revert back to Donor towns to support education unless the governor does something to change a law that has already been passed and is on the books. The last time Moultonborough was a donor town, the state portion of the tax rate was over $2.80 more than it is currently. What if that rate went up by $3.00...an increase of this amount in the state tax would increase your bill by almost 40%. How are you feeling now? Also, the Carroll County folks (Our BOS member and State Rep Betsy Patten is part of this...) are looking at a major nursing home rebuild that is projected to cost maybe $23 million for 103 beds, which will also add to local taxes. Not everyone on the water saw decreases in valuations this past year. It all depends on sales within what Vision Appraisal calls neighborhoods. Maybe this past year you were blessed with a low property sale that meant reduced valuations. But once there is a significant sale at higher rates...bound to happen, you will get royally impacted. My "neighborhood" had one sale and it increased our assessments by over 17% on land alone....due to a fluke that Vision did not want to address. Now we have another property for sale that is offered less than the current assessed value. So we are all anxious to see that sale go down and reduce our assessed values. Just be careful....Moultonborough has wild swings in assessed values, all depending on sales in neighborhoods. One year you feel great and the next year you get hit hard. And then the town may do more things to hike things...like the Community Center funding, Fox Hollow Road, etc .etc. Don't spend those lower tax dollars now...put them into the bank or under the mattress, as you will pay sooner or later.

Tummy Man,

While I understand your fears of education funding, I don't believe the state will flub that one again. That went over like a lead brick the last time and I think they learned a leason. I would believe that next year there will be a eductation funding bill filed to take care of that.

Now as for the wild swings you mention in valuation you mention personally I have not seen this ever. Our dwelling has always remained constant, the onlything that has ever changed is the Valuation of our property. Considering We have had property sell on our road every single year for the last 4 or 5 years I can't see that our property valuation is in for any type of swing. Every time I here of this happening I generally find that what has happened is that Vision has gone in and done on site evaluation that have not been done. What is documented to be on a persons lot and what is there doesn't always match. We had a guy out about 10 years ago to look at our place, and he looked around and asked us a couple of questions like... you have a little more work to do to finish your kitchen don't you.... we said Yep..... he asked us if we had any plans of finishing off a loft space, we said Yep..... he then said well I will tell you what I can note all that in my apprisal and take it into account now, or we can do it the next time we come out. Because we knew we where doing the work we said fiqure it in now...Guess what about 5 years ago a guy came out evaluated the property took 5 or 10 mins, and said it doesn't appear much has changed I think you guys are all set. In short the reason people see drastic swings is because they make changes. This doesn't have to be expanding the house, or even doing anything on the inside. If you landscape your lot, adding a small shed, putting in a new articulating dock, etc. these things will all impact your evaluation. They all add value to your property. Hence I will never put in a wonderful lawn, I will keep my nice sandy yard.

Although the selling of property in your area has an effect on your homes value, it doesn't cause drastic changes to the Values of other peoples property as much as people think. Property values do not make being swings year to year.... they go up over time for sure. And that is what happend in the lakes region the prices went up rapidally over 10 years. Much of this was do to the fact that many properties where grossly under valuated in the 80's.......

[tummyman]

LIforrelaxin...

In the case I outlined....over 15 properties each experienced an increase of over 14-19% on land alone. Not because any one owner did anything. The facts are the facts.

[Pineedles]

Tummy Man,

While I understand your fears of education funding, I don't believe the state will flub that one again. That went over like a lead brick the last time and I think they learned a leason. I would believe that next year there will be a eductation funding bill filed to take care of that.

Now as for the wild swings you mention in valuation you mention personally I have not seen this ever. Our dwelling has always remained constant, the onlything that has ever changed is the Valuation of our property. Considering We have had property sell on our road every single year for the last 4 or 5 years I can't see that our property valuation is in for any type of swing. Every time I here of this happening I generally find that what has happened is that Vision has gone in and done on site evaluation that have not been done. What is documented to be on a persons lot and what is there doesn't always match. We had a guy out about 10 years ago to look at our place, and he looked around and asked us a couple of questions like... you have a little more work to do to finish your kitchen don't you.... we said Yep..... he asked us if we had any plans of finishing off a loft space, we said Yep..... he then said well I will tell you what I can note all that in my apprisal and take it into account now, or we can do it the next time we come out. Because we knew we where doing the work we said fiqure it in now...Guess what about 5 years ago a guy came out evaluated the property took 5 or 10 mins, and said it doesn't appear much has changed I think you guys are all set. In short the reason people see drastic swings is because they make changes. This doesn't have to be expanding the house, or even doing anything on the inside. If you landscape your lot, adding a small shed, putting in a new articulating dock, etc. these things will all impact your evaluation. They all add value to your property. Hence I will never put in a wonderful lawn, I will keep my nice sandy yard.

Although the selling of property in your area has an effect on your homes value, it doesn't cause drastic changes to the Values of other peoples property as much as people think. Property values do not make being swings year to year.... they go up over time for sure. And that is what happend in the lakes region the prices went up rapidally over 10 years. Much of this was do to the fact that many properties where grossly under valuated in the 80's.......


No offense LIforrelaxin, but I think I hear political obfuscation with your observation.

I think you said it yourself, you were making changes, and the vision guy put down that these changes were already done, hence no big new assessment. "I can note all that in my apprisal and take it into account now, or we can do it the next time we come out. Because we knew we where doing the work we said fiqure it in now.. " What are you trying to say with this post, that if we gradually improve the property and tell the appraisers what we are doing, we won't see major spikes in our taxes? Ahhh Duhhh, that goes without saying.

Also the fact that you have had sales in your area every year means there are no big surprises. "Considering We have had property sell on our road every single year for the last 4 or 5 years I can't see that our property valuation is in for any type of swing. "

Once again ahhh duhhh. I think that is what tummyman said. I'm glad you are content in paying higher taxes, gradual as they may be. I am not!

Although Moultonborough's assessment of my property went down, I am not impressed by this valuation technique. Thanks Tummyman for the clarification. Unfortunately we have 2 macmansions for sale on our point and neither has sold in the past 2 years. Oh Gawd, what will the taxes be when they are finally sold?:(

[brk-lnt]

Hi all,

Just got my Laconia tax bill and I was a bit surprised with the increases. It looks like the tax rate pretty much doubled and they reassessed. Of course, valuations went up; not sure how that works in this economy. Did others also see a marked jump in their tax bills?

Jetskier:cool:

Ours went up by a few hundred, which is probably representative of an ~7-8% increase, but not an amount of money that swings our finances or anything.

[jetskier]

Laconia calculates the tax bill as follows:

July tax = Valuation x 1/2 prior year's rate
December = Valuation x current rate less amount of July bill

July Rate = 8.48
December Rate = 18.04

So the net increase in the rate was 6%

They increased my valuation by 17%...Interesting view of the real estate market since everything has gone down.

Jetskier:cool:

[Yosemite Sam]

Laconia calculates the tax bill as follows:

July tax = Valuation x 1/2 prior year's rate
December = Valuation x current rate less amount of July bill

July Rate = 8.48
December Rate = 18.04

So the net increase in the rate was 6%

They increased my valuation by 17%...Interesting view of the real estate market since everything has gone down.

Jetskier:cool:

I didn't think that your tax rate had doubled as you said in your first post. 6% net increase makes more sense.
I wonder why your valuation went up 17%. Did you do some renovations?

[LIforrelaxin]

No offense LIforrelaxin, but I think I hear political obfuscation with your observation.

I think you said it yourself, you were making changes, and the vision guy put down that these changes were already done, hence no big new assessment. "I can note all that in my apprisal and take it into account now, or we can do it the next time we come out. Because we knew we where doing the work we said fiqure it in now.. " What are you trying to say with this post, that if we gradually improve the property and tell the appraisers what we are doing, we won't see major spikes in our taxes? Ahhh Duhhh, that goes without saying.

Also the fact that you have had sales in your area every year means there are no big surprises. "Considering We have had property sell on our road every single year for the last 4 or 5 years I can't see that our property valuation is in for any type of swing. "

Once again ahhh duhhh. I think that is what tummyman said. I'm glad you are content in paying higher taxes, gradual as they may be. I am not!

Although Moultonborough's assessment of my property went down, I am not impressed by this valuation technique. Thanks Tummyman for the clarification. Unfortunately we have 2 macmansions for sale on our point and neither has sold in the past 2 years. Oh Gawd, what will the taxes be when they are finally sold?:(

PineNeedles,

You are indeed correct with your comments about telling the appraiser what we are up to it is indeed a no brainer.... my point is, that all to often people are making improvements that are not calculated into their assments and then when the get reevaluated are shocked at the increase because they haven't thought about all the things they have done that have increased the value of the property.

Now to address the sale issue in my area. I want people to know that as the sale have happend, the prices have done nothing but gone up. In fact the same piece of property has sold twice in this time frame, each time for increasingly more. Yet durring this time span the value of my property has continued to fall. The Assed value of my land is down over the course of 5 years, while properties continue to sell for more and more....so to assert that the value of my property is directly linked to the sales of properties in the imediate area (like my neighbor two door down who is on it 3rd owner in 5 years....) just doesn't hold water........

[Pineedles]

Thank you for the clarification regarding the sales of homes near you. It makes me feel better in hopefully being able to continue to make our cotttage an affordable place to spend a couple of weeks here. The owners of this cottage are from several economic strata and it must be affordable for all, in order for all to enjoy it.:)

I just think that considering we use close to zero of the town's benefits provided to its citizenry, and can't vote we are easy targets.

[SIKSUKR]

I didn't think that your tax rate had doubled as you said in your first post. 6% net increase makes more sense.
I wonder why your valuation went up 17%. Did you do some renovations?

The tax rate did more than double. It went from 8 1/2 to 18. His total taxes only went up 6% because the evaluation was cut in half.

[jetskier]

Actually it was 6%...Laconia uses strange math. The actual rate for July was

2 x 8.48 = 16.96

The December rate was 18.04

Net = 6.36% increase

The house is basically new, so I am guessing that the 17% increase was over a discount prior. The valuation does seem like full market value+.

Jetskier:cool:

[Yosemite Sam]

Actually it was 6%...Laconia uses strange math. The actual rate for July was

2 x 8.48 = 16.96

The December rate was 18.04

Net = 6.36% increase

The house is basically new, so I am guessing that the 17% increase was over a discount prior. The valuation does seem like full market value+.

Jetskier:cool:

If I rec'd a 17% increase in my taxes, I would want to know how they calculated it. It wouldn't hurt to get in touch with the Laconia finance department and ask them to explain the increase.
Good luck

[LIforrelaxin]

Thank you for the clarification regarding the sales of homes near you. It makes me feel better in hopefully being able to continue to make our cotttage an affordable place to spend a couple of weeks here. The owners of this cottage are from several economic strata and it must be affordable for all, in order for all to enjoy it.:)

I just think that considering we use close to zero of the town's benefits provided to its citizenry, and can't vote we are easy targets.

Pineedles, Believe me I understand your angle. Which is way I decided to I needed to elaberate my point. Believe me there are times I worry about affordability. Thank goodness my family owns the property and the only thing we worry about is taxes. I honestly wonder how some people are able to afford it.

Seasonal Property owners are easy targets because we don't vote, and that is way it is very important to keep track of things and watch the trends. I was very concerned as I saw places selling around us, and cottages torn down and new year around places put up. And sure evaluations have changed. However I just don't see the wild swings that others talk about. The valuation of or dwelling has changed may 3K or 4K over 10 years.... which I chalk up to inflation etc. and the land value has tracked with everyone elses land value. Now my neighbor with the nicely manicured yard has a land value higher then mine for the same amount of land, but, his is nicely landscaped, has a year around house, and he is constantly making improvements. And guess what his taxes keep going up.

The Tax man assume you make X amount of improvements per year and thus increase the value of your property. So you see increases, then when they do a visual in person inspection they either a) decide you have done the expect improvements thus no adjustment is neccessary. b) decide you haven't done as many improvememnts and thus a negative adjustment is needed or c) you make more improvements and a further positive adjustments are needed. Now in any given year if you don't agree with this you can object there is a process in place. And hay if I saw an unfair adjustment in my tax evaluation I would ask it to be justified and then talk it through. So that I understood the adjustment. Far to often people don't do that though they get upset, yell and scream, and talk about the unfairness of it all.

Property taxes in NH are what they are because there are no Income, or Sales Taxes. The money has to come from somewhere to run the state.

Now as an out of stater I always remember this...... I could spend 5 or 6 grand in any year and take a 1 week vacation with my GF and her kids, or I could spend 5 or 6 grand on Taxes have a 2 week vacation and enjoy every weekend all summer long at the lake.

[fatlazyless]

Stay away from clerk/tax office for couple weeks, if you can


LACONIA- Residents are being asked to delay, if possible, any personal visits to the clerk's office or tax office at City Hall while renovation work is underway in the main floor room the two departments share. On Tuesday, city employees will move both offices to their temporary, much smaller home on the second floor (room 200-B), where city business that can't wait a couple weeks can be transacted.

Staff members are expected to return to their normal quarters aound December 4 or 5.

Laconia Daily Sun. Nov 17

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Pineedles, Believe me I understand your angle. Which is way I decided to I needed to elaberate my point. Believe me there are times I worry about affordability. Thank goodness my family owns the property and the only thing we worry about is taxes. I honestly wonder how some people are able to afford it.

Seasonal Property owners are easy targets because we don't vote, and that is way it is very important to keep track of things and watch the trends. I was very concerned as I saw places selling around us, and cottages torn down and new year around places put up. And sure evaluations have changed. However I just don't see the wild swings that others talk about. The valuation of or dwelling has changed may 3K or 4K over 10 years.... which I chalk up to inflation etc. and the land value has tracked with everyone elses land value. Now my neighbor with the nicely manicured yard has a land value higher then mine for the same amount of land, but, his is nicely landscaped, has a year around house, and he is constantly making improvements. And guess what his taxes keep going up.

The Tax man assume you make X amount of improvements per year and thus increase the value of your property. So you see increases, then when they do a visual in person inspection they either a) decide you have done the expect improvements thus no adjustment is neccessary. b) decide you haven't done as many improvememnts and thus a negative adjustment is needed or c) you make more improvements and a further positive adjustments are needed. Now in any given year if you don't agree with this you can object there is a process in place. And hay if I saw an unfair adjustment in my tax evaluation I would ask it to be justified and then talk it through. So that I understood the adjustment. Far to often people don't do that though they get upset, yell and scream, and talk about the unfairness of it all.

Property taxes in NH are what they are because there are no Income, or Sales Taxes. The money has to come from somewhere to run the state.

Now as an out of stater I always remember this...... I could spend 5 or 6 grand in any year and take a 1 week vacation with my GF and her kids, or I could spend 5 or 6 grand on Taxes have a 2 week vacation and enjoy every weekend all summer long at the lake.

Please explain in detail your statement that "Seasonal property owners are an easy target because we don't vote.." What specific examples can you cite? You own a property in one of the lowest tax towns/cities and you feel you are being discriminated against. If what you say is true, I strongly recommend you file an abatement, go to Superior Court, and you will be richly rewarded.

You and many others (seasonal and year round) seem to be suffering from a huge persecution complex. Be honest, would you sell your property for more or less than the current assessment? Moltonborough attempts to keep ALL properties - NOT JUST THOSE OWNED BY NON-VOTING TAXPAYERS - at market rates.

Hope this does not come on too strong, but the constant b....... gets a little tiring for those of us who live here full time and make an effort to see that the town operates as best as economically possible. And no, I am not a town official, elected or otherwise.

[breathe easy]

Hope this does not come on too strong, but the constant b....... gets a little tiring for those of us who live here full time and make an effort to see that the town operates as best as economically possible. And no, I am not a town official, elected or otherwise.


...sure sounds like a town official.:rolleye2:

[tis]

...sure sounds like a town official.:rolleye2:

I thought the exact same thing when I read the post, breathe easy! You can tell the officials or "friends".

[Grady223]

Please explain in detail your statement that "Seasonal property owners are an easy target because we don't vote.." What specific examples can you cite? You own a property in one of the lowest tax towns/cities and you feel you are being discriminated against. If what you say is true, I strongly recommend you file an abatement, go to Superior Court, and you will be richly rewarded.

You and many others (seasonal and year round) seem to be suffering from a huge persecution complex. Be honest, would you sell your property for more or less than the current assessment? Moltonborough attempts to keep ALL properties - NOT JUST THOSE OWNED BY NON-VOTING TAXPAYERS - at market rates.

Hope this does not come on too strong, but the constant b....... gets a little tiring for those of us who live here full time and make an effort to see that the town operates as best as economically possible. And no, I am not a town official, elected or otherwise.

Pardon me...I own a home on an island in Alton. I would hardly say that my taxes are low, in fact they are substantially higher than they are for my permanent home in PA. What do I get from Alton for my tax dollars: no police service or no fire service in a time frame that will be of any help, can't send my kids to the schools, no sewers, no sidewalks, no water, no garbage, get my electrical from Wolfeboro and I can't even vote on the budgets. Although I can't say for sure, I would venture a guess that nonresidents pay a substantially higher share of the overall taxes in Alton than residents.

I had previously proposed on this forum that the non-bridged islands in the Lake band together, secede from their towns and counties and form their own with their own tax base, not sure how practical that is. Maybe instead I should propose that Alton provide a lack of services discount to non-bridged island properties - oh, that's right, I can't do that because I am not a resident. Taxation without representation - wasn't that something I had heard was an issue addressed in New England once before?

I have no issues with the way the towns are run, New Englanders are notoriously frugal and I am sure the tax dollars are being spent wisely. I just think that I am paying a disproportionate share of the town's taxes. Oh, and although my house is assessed for what it could have sold for 2 years ago - I doubt it would sell for that now. Considering the economy, how could my assessment have gone up this year?

[onthebay]

Every where I look I see that property values have gone down substantially. I even had my home equity line of credit frozen due to supposedly declining property values.
Why is that the house I built in 2006 is now supposedly rising in value while everything else is sinking. No changes in the house since I completed it.

My November 2007 valuation was $20k less than the June 2007. My June 2008valuation remained the same but jumped up 30k in November of 2008. I got my tax bill and both the tax rate jumped and my valuation went up by another 50K. I would be happy if I actually had a chance to sell it for what they say it is worth and for what I have into it. I know of no other properties in the area that would have sold in the past year to make the value jump.

I live on a dirt road, do not have trash pickup, and have no one in the school system. :confused::confused:

[Grant]

Pardon me...I own a home on an island in Alton. I would hardly say that my taxes are low, in fact they are substantially higher than they are for my permanent home in PA. What do I get from Alton for my tax dollars: no police service or no fire service in a time frame that will be of any help, can't send my kids to the schools, no sewers, no sidewalks, no water, no garbage, get my electrical from Wolfeboro and I can't even vote on the budgets. Although I can't say for sure, I would venture a guess that nonresidents pay a substantially higher share of the overall taxes in Alton than residents.

I had previously proposed on this forum that the non-bridged islands in the Lake band together, secede from their towns and counties and form their own with their own tax base, not sure how practical that is. Maybe instead I should propose that Alton provide a lack of services discount to non-bridged island properties - oh, that's right, I can't do that because I am not a resident. Taxation without representation - wasn't that something I had heard was an issue addressed in New England once before?

I have no issues with the way the towns are run, New Englanders are notoriously frugal and I am sure the tax dollars are being spent wisely. I just think that I am paying a disproportionate share of the town's taxes. Oh, and although my house is assessed for what it could have sold for 2 years ago - I doubt it would sell for that now. Considering the economy, how could my assessment have gone up this year?

Grady, you hit the proverbial nail on the head re: disproportional taxes vs. what you get in return & lack of input. In the comparison of your home vs. Winnipesaukee taxes, you should mention that New Hope, PA has relatively high taxes of its own! For Alton to eclipse New Hope really says something.

[tummyman]

Issues with values going up in an apparent down market are usually the result of two items.... building permits and/or a sale within your tax "neighborhood". All it takes is one sale and the appraisers hit land values in the neighborhood, since usually the homes are so dissimilar that it is hard to increase the building side of the equation. The assessors in the towns have the data...and if they are using Vision, they can tell you how many sales in your "neighborhood" were used to calculate your value. In Moultonborough, they have WILD annual swings caused by this neighborhood valuation approach. Concerning the taxation without representation, I wonder how many resident taxpayers who are always screaming about things being equitable would vote to allow non-resident taxpayers to have the right to vote in town budget and municipal matters. Bet the answer is none. Some places in the country have this today.... but they are slim and far between. But if the non-residents get together and really press the matter, they just might get a voice. All it will take is a few non-resident lawyers to do some pro-bono work....

[onthebay]

The strange part is that the land portion of the tax bill has stayed the same since I bought it but the building value has gone up.
The build cost when built was high since it was mostly built in 2005 when things were booming.
I would imagine with labor and material costs down the replacement cost would be less now.