new $750,000 Meredith fire truck [Archive]

Resident 2B

10-31-2009, 10:44 PM

Meredith is probably keeping up with Loudon. As Baer gave the Loudon an awesome ladder truck so he can protect his bleachers at the speedway :rolleye2:

As I understand it, when Bob and Gary Bahre were trying to get approval to build NHIS, the Loudon Fire Chief wanted to restrict the height of the stands to something like 35 rows. That would not have been enough seats for the deal to work, plus the best seats are the rows at the top, the higher the better.

When asked why the 35 row limit, the Fire Chief said that his present ladder truck would only go that high and if for some reason they needed to access the top rows, he would not be able to do it. Bob asked if he had a ladder truck that would be able to reach 50 rows, would that resolve the problem.

When the Fire Chief said if he had a ladder that would go up high enough for 50 rows, he would have no problem with agreeing to 50 rows. Bob asked how much the truck would cost, and when hearing the answer of about $250,000 turned to his son Gary, saying write the man a check.

With the Fire Chief now on board, the permit to build what was NHIS was approved and issued. There is a plaque on the fire truck with the date the Bahre's donated the money to buy it, thhe same date the building permit was issued.

Hard to believe it, but the ground breaking was in August 1989, more than 20 years ago.

R2B

Yosemite Sam

11-01-2009, 05:50 AM

She sure is a beauty:

Happy Gourmand

11-01-2009, 06:29 AM

......and they never even sent me a thank you note!!:laugh:

ITD

11-01-2009, 07:36 AM

......and they never even sent me a thank you note!!:laugh:

Why should they, you're not done paying for it.;)

Coolbreeze

11-01-2009, 08:07 AM

Coolbreeze

11-01-2009, 08:15 AM

CG13,
100' tower sounds tall but when it has to be set up, in most cases will reach the sixth floor of a high rise. A operator needs to figure out the scrub zone (collapse zone) of a building and set the truck in a safe location. If laddering the building for rescue, the operartor has to take into consideration parked cars, trees and other hazzards while he looks to set up for mulitple picks. So 100' is a good choice.

fatlazyless

11-01-2009, 08:22 AM

Voting 5-0, all five selectmen agreed to purchase this new tower truck at a 5:30pm, Monday monthly selectboard meeting in September, 2008.....as I recall, reading in the LaDaSun.

I don't know a whole lot about the mechanics of town purchasing, but $750,000 sure seems like a big ticket item. If it had been voted on, at the March town meeting, at about 11:30pm, by a show of hands, it most likely would have been voted 'Yes.' By voting on it as a yes or no question on the private paper ballot, at the all-day, 7am-7pm March voting polls, a predicted passage is unpredictable.

In the last eight years, Meredith has added: a new, huge community center, a new, huge police station, a new school football field, new baseball, soccer fields & six tennis courts, a new town hall annex, a new huge fire station remodel, and the latest....a new 100' tower truck.

What's next? Meredith does not have an indoor swimming pool or a year-round, indoor ice skating arena! An indoor sports complex with both a pool and an ice arena would be very nice.

And, the Meredith population is about 6000 residents that seems to be over-weighted with age 50+ folks.

So, where's all the money come from to pay for all these very, very, very nice town improvements? Does Meredith have an anonymous 'Warren Buffet' living quietly in Meredith somewhere.....who enjoys signing very, very, very big donation checks?

Oh: Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the biggest Meredith town check writer of them all? Is it you, or is it me, or is it that guy over there hiding behind that tree? :):D:)

fatlazyless

11-01-2009, 09:32 AM

She sure is a beauty:

....correction........Yosemite......you should have said

"It sure is a beauty:".....a truck is a machine or a motor vehicle and is an "It" as opposed to a "She."

Lakesrider

11-01-2009, 09:51 AM

Vehicles being called she dates back to the days of wooden ships. Always called she. We carry that forward to today. Also dates back to men being in control of most vehicles. Train conductors, ships captains, Heavy equipment operators, big rig drivers etc. So hence vehicles called a she. I prefer to think of it this way...
Because they purrr when they're handled nicely, are temperamental when you don't look after them properly. And if you're willing to lavish money on them they can look pretty sexy.:D

steadyon

11-01-2009, 06:41 PM

funny, that there will always be negative comment or thought to anything.
I think that the ladder truck is a good thing. regarding height, while fighting a fire a safe distance from the building is one and one half times the height away from the structure of the height of the building to safetly reach the structure. if a (one) person's life is saved I would not care what the cost of the truck is.

Janet

11-01-2009, 06:54 PM

rick35

11-01-2009, 06:55 PM

I remember reading last spring about Meredith calling a meeting on how to spend money. My town has meetings about how to not spend money. As an island property owner all I want from Meredith is a place to park my car when on the island and to be able to dispose of my trash. It doesn't appear that Meredith goes without anything. I'm sure its like this in other towns where there's a significant non-resident tax base.

NoBozo

11-01-2009, 08:02 PM

Not trying to make any comparisons here....Probably off topic..BUT.. My town of 15,000 population has a tower truck that is At Least as impressive as the Meredith truck.......AND we have a new $3m Wind Turbine. I really LIKE the Turbine....I'm an engineer...engineers like mechanical stuff..BUT, I am getting old and won't have to help pay for it for long...the Children and Grandchildren in my town will pay for it.

http://www.portsmouthri.com/frames.htm

BTW: I hate to mention this...I really like the turbine now..even though as a taxpayer, I voted against it... The Turbine Website has become Much Less Candid in the last few weeks about what has been going on at the turbine site. The website used to be easy to navigate...now I can't figure it out. There have been extended periods when the Turbine (1.5 Mega Watts) has been "Silent"....not running. !.5 Mega Watts is a VERY LARGE Turbine. You don't get much bigger.

We have another privately owned Turbine (650 KW) less than a mile away that runs all the time when there is any kind of wind at all. This turbine is owned by Portsmouth Abbey, a private Prep School. They are NOT connected to the grid.

Just an observer. NB

gf2020

11-01-2009, 10:36 PM

Buying and using a specialized piece of equipment like this isn't made to keep up in a "race" with the neighboring towns. It is a well planned, time consuming researched decision to buy a piece of safety equipment that will best serve and protect the townspeople and their property forthe next 25 years. This truck is a great buy for a town like Meredith. Certain insurance industry standards require that a elevated ladder or tower be within the area insured or the rates go up and up to insure property.

You are absolutely correct in this assessment. My town here in MA purchased a new (well, 1 year old) tower truck this spring for $750,000 as well. It replaced a 30 something year old truck. The need for the truck is not because we have that many tall buildings in our town but it is based on insurance requirements and mutual aid agreements with neighboring communities that may have tall buildings.

As I recall, that particular line item sailed through town meeting in the Spring with no debate.

fatlazyless

11-02-2009, 06:57 AM

its not the hight that matters....one of the main resons we got it was for reach...we can stay a safe distance away and still get the job done...plus my crew goes on alot of mutual aid to lacoina and gilford and all those towns

...hey bigpapi....what's the latest on Meredith's metamorphosing from an on-call, volunteer fire dept to a full time, 24-hour, paid fire dept like the Laconia F.D. .....got any scuttlebutt?

tis

11-02-2009, 07:03 AM

its not the hight that matters....one of the main resons we got it was for reach...we can stay a safe distance away and still get the job done...plus my crew goes on alot of mutual aid to lacoina and gilford and all those towns

Well, it seems to me it's not your job to worry about mutual aid to other towns.
Personally I think these towns need to start thinking about what is absolutely necessary rather than what is really nice to have. We all need to do that in our private lives. If towns don't start thinking about the taxpayers, pretty soon people will leave and the towns won't have all these nice things-nobody to pay for them. Most people can only afford so much in taxes.

Kamper

11-02-2009, 07:43 AM

Vehicles being called she dates back to the days of wooden ships. Always called she. ...

The gender identification is a cultural thing. In Asia, ships are "He."

Ladder trucks can be used for more than reaching high buildings. There are some houses built on high embankments. They will be accessible by the tower truck for evacuation purposes. The narrow driveways and back roads will be limited to standard engines and crews.

Also, the same could be said for brush fires in similiar terrain. A quick response by a tower truck could knock down a blaze before it spreads.That's why most tower trucks have nozzles on top now.

jmen24

11-02-2009, 02:21 PM

As I understand it, when Bob and Gary Bahre were trying to get approval to build NHIS, the Loudon Fire Chief wanted to restrict the height of the stands to something like 35 rows. That would not have been enough seats for the deal to work, plus the best seats are the rows at the top, the higher the better.

When asked why the 35 row limit, the Fire Chief said that his present ladder truck would only go that high and if for some reason they needed to access the top rows, he would not be able to do it. Bob asked if he had a ladder truck that would be able to reach 50 rows, would that resolve the problem.

When the Fire Chief said if he had a ladder that would go up high enough for 50 rows, he would have no problem with agreeing to 50 rows. Bob asked how much the truck would cost, and when hearing the answer of about $250,000 turned to his son Gary, saying write the man a check.

With the Fire Chief now on board, the permit to build what was NHIS was approved and issued. There is a plaque on the fire truck with the date the Bahre's donated the money to buy it, thhe same date the building permit was issued.

Hard to believe it, but the ground breaking was in August 1989, more than 20 years ago.

R2B

You are very close with this story, the only thing missing is that Loudon did not have a per se "ladder truck" that needed to be replaced. They did not have one at all. If you remember the old fire station next to the library had two overhead doors and neither were tall enough for a ladder truck, and the old secondary station on Lower Ridge Road is the size of two car garage and house two support vehicles only.

The great thing was Bob and Gary donating the truck, the bad thing was the taxpayers of Loudon having to fit the bill for the new safety complex to house the new ladder truck.

When I hear folks say what could you possibly need a 100' tower for in Meredith, two complexes come to mind, Millsfalls and Church Landing. Think about how they would combat a fire on the upper stories of those buildings combined with the set back from the road, seems like a no-brainer to me.

For anyone that has shopped for a tractor for a farm, you will know, but it is always easier to do a small job with a big tractor than a big job with a small tractor.

imalocal

11-02-2009, 03:10 PM

To all of you who are complaining about Meredith getting a new truck - I'm sure if it were your house or building on fire, you would want the best equipment available to try to save your building or even more so to save your life or the life of a loved one!

Resident 2B

11-02-2009, 09:43 PM

You are very close with this story, the only thing missing is that Loudon did not have a per se "ladder truck" that needed to be replaced. They did not have one at all. If you remember the old fire station next to the library had two overhead doors and neither were tall enough for a ladder truck, and the old secondary station on Lower Ridge Road is the size of two car garage and house two support vehicles only.

The great thing was Bob and Gary donating the truck, the bad thing was the taxpayers of Loudon having to fit the bill for the new safety complex to house the new ladder truck.

When I hear folks say what could you possibly need a 100' tower for in Meredith, two complexes come to mind, Millsfalls and Church Landing. Think about how they would combat a fire on the upper stories of those buildings combined with the set back from the road, seems like a no-brainer to me.

For anyone that has shopped for a tractor for a farm, you will know, but it is always easier to do a small job with a big tractor than a big job with a small tractor.

Your post has re-arranged the gray matter between my ears! :)

You are right, there was no pure ladder truck. I am also sure the donated truck was the tip of the iceberg. The place to house it had to cost much more than the truck. However, Loudon must have made some gain from having the track there, as far as increase in tax base.

I do know that the donation of the ladder truck is what allowed the project that became NHIS to move forward. I just cannot believe that was 20 years ago. Time is moving way too fast!

You are also right regarding the need to cover the large buildings in Meredith often loaded with people. I am not a Meredith tax payer. I pay my NH taxes in Laconia, but I believe it was a justifiable purchase when you consider the Mills Falls and Church landing complexes. Mills falls is tall, Church Landing is large with a lot of the building that is very hard to access from the land side.

Next will come the big fire boat. ;)

R2B

rick35

11-02-2009, 09:46 PM

StephenB

11-02-2009, 09:58 PM

I agree with jmen24 about needing the ladder truck to protect the hotel properties. I just wish Meredith would practice some restraint with some of their other projects. One project that seemed to be met with extra scrutiny was buying snowmobiles to get over to the islands in winter. To an island property owner that's one project that I supported. If I remember correctly I believe they ended up being donated.

Do any of the area towns or the Marine Patrol have any small hovercraft to get to the islands or disabled boats during times of partial ice-in and ice out?

'Seems to me if they're looking to spend more money, those hover thingies could fit the bill nicely and they'd be far cheaper than a helicopter :)

I seem to recall seeing a few such hovercraft parked by the Maine Forest Service building on Moosehead Lake in Greenville once.

jmen24

11-03-2009, 09:25 AM

However, Loudon must have made some gain from having the track there, as far as increase in tax base. {snip}

R2B

Loudon did do well with the tax revenue from the track for the first few years and then about 9 years ago (time frame may be off a bit) they changed the track to a seasonal venue and their tax burden was cut by more than half. Loudon then got to pick up the rest of the bill.

I can tell you that I am not complaining one bit regarding what Bob Bahre did for the town and I think you would be hard pressed to find a resident of the town that had anything bad to say about him. He was a very nice guy, on and off his grounds. You will see a very different feeling in the next few years from Speedway Inc., things are going to change alot in that area.

When I worked at the track in my first real job at age 14 I remember walking through the grandstand area to the concession stand I worked in and was approaching Bob and a few managers. As they passed a barrel that had been slightly over filled with trash, one of the managers TOLD (key word) me to take care of the barrel and put a new bag in it. As I started over to the barrel Bob stopped me and looked at his manager and proceeded to tell him that it was not my responsibility to replace the bag and if he noticed it he needed to change it, Bob then proceeded to change the bag himself and we never saw that manager again.

Coolbreeze

11-03-2009, 11:19 AM

NoBozo

11-03-2009, 11:47 AM

Do any of the area towns or the Marine Patrol have any small hovercraft to get to the islands or disabled boats during times of partial ice-in and ice out?

.

Hovercraft can have a problem operating on water during Freezing Temperatures. The spray being blown out from under the craft Freezes on everything on board.... including the windshield and cockpit enclosure, making operation dicey. ICE everywhere. :( NB

tis

11-03-2009, 02:01 PM

Tis, you are way off base in your opening statement to bigpapi about not worrying about his neighbors. Mutual aid from neighboring communities helps keep your taxes down and actually helps keep you safer. Just as Bigpapi is concerned for his neighbors; they in return, are thinking of theirs and so on. This is why it is called mutual aid and it works, regardless of the monetary cost.

Most towns buy for themselves but are glad to help the others out. "Regardless of the monetary cost?" That's exactly why our taxes are so high!
I believe Tuftonboro has an airboat or a hover craft or some such type.

StephenB

11-03-2009, 02:14 PM

Hovercraft can have a problem operating on water during Freezing Temperatures. The spray being blown out from under the craft Freezes on everything on board.... including the windshield and cockpit enclosure, making operation dicey. ICE everywhere. :( NB

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks

Coolbreeze

11-03-2009, 06:33 PM

Tis, I agree with you on dis-agreeing with the tax and spend attitude of past within our towns and moreover, government.
However, you can't stop progress by not investing in equipment and technology that lasts up to 20 years and improves the lives of so many in our towns. My post to you earlier stated that mutual aid between towns benefits all and I firmly believe that it does.It should "not be worried about". It would be irresponsible to deny a smaller town the aid of protection that a specialized peice of equipment provides. We as firefighters look beyond the tax dollar and see how we can get to an emergency the quickest and safest. All the while putting in place special pieces of equipment that may make our efforts safer and faster for all. Anyway, a town that doesn't have the need for a full time specialized piece will call on other towns who own and have the need for the use of that specific piece, as in the case of Ladder trucks, hydroplanes etc. Mutual aid works, and it works well. When a town gets called upon too much on their piece of equipment, one chief goes to the other chief and has a discussion. In most cases the chief without the piece, seeing the increased need, begins the process of buying one. Please remember, the firefighters and police that use these pieces of equipmnet are in most cases tax paying residents. In this economy, we agree that our funds need to be streched as far as we can.

fatlazyless

11-03-2009, 09:29 PM

Ya know the four, five, and six story hotels along that Meredith waterfront that are targeted for emergency service by the new 100' tower truck probably all have sprinklers, central smoke alarms, 24-hr front desks and steel girder construction..

Instead of spending $750,000 for this new aerial tower, I respectively suggest the overall well being of the town's residents would be better served if the money was spent on tooth care.....ie dental care and oral hygene and teeth care education.

With three different dentists located right in Meredith, the children and adults would be better off with tooth care, preventive dental medicine, and oral hygene than a 100' tower truck. The fire dept already had about five different pumper and ladder trucks, and a 100' tower truck is more suited for an urban area.

What would you rather have....good teeth when you are 88.....or a 30-year old, bright red, tower truck? :rolleye1:

Your hospital emergency room provides no service for dental care. They tell you that you need to see a dentist. The town has an ambulance service so why not a dental program?

Does the town employee, police, teacher and 5 selectmen's "Cadillac" health insurance plan contain dental insurance? What do you think? Yes, it does!

Do you have dental insurance?

How come the town can spend $750,000 for a big red truck and zero for an adult and child dental program?

Misty Blue

11-03-2009, 09:50 PM

'Had what I think is my last tow to Meredith launch ramp when I came up to a 100 foot ladder truck blowing water from the Lake back into the Lake!

It doused my boat but good. What FUN!

My only concern is that now Moultonborough will want one.

Misty Blue.

BroadHopper

11-03-2009, 11:31 PM

What would you rather have....good teeth when you are 88.....or a 30-year old, bright red, tower truck? :rolleye1:

Your hospital emergency room provides no service for dental care. They tell you that you need to see a dentist. The town has an ambulance service so why not a dental program?

Does the town employee, police, teacher and 5 selectmen's "Cadillac" health insurance plan contain dental insurance? What do you think? Yes, it does!

Do you have dental insurance?

How come the town can spend $750,000 for a big red truck and zero for an adult and child dental program?

You have a point there. Laconia just teared down a middle school that was 40 years old for a brand new one that doesn't hold any more students than the old one. Now they want to build a new high school when the old high school had 1200 students 50 years ago. Now it houses 800 students! With the unemployment rate high in Laconia, this rate does not include the 'underemployment' folks as well as those who went from full time to part time. With foreclosures up and many people can not afford their taxes, we have a school board that is still looking for a new high school! I'd say give it a rest until the economy is better! Lynch is doing his part in reigning in the state spending. Why can't the local communities do the same?????

wifi

11-04-2009, 05:13 AM

......Instead of spending $750,000 for this new aerial tower, I respectively suggest the overall well being of the town's residents would be better served if the money was spent on tooth care.....

Why not free cars or free gasoline to get to our jobs or ....

Does the town employee, police, teacher and 5 selectmen's "Cadillac" health insurance plan contain dental insurance? What do you think? Yes, it does!

We need LESS giveaways, how about those people give up their insurance to lower our taxes?

...My only concern is that now Moultonborough will want one...

You have that right !!

....Lynch is doing his part in reigning in the state spending. Why can't the local communities do the same?????.....

I second your feelings.

RI Swamp Yankee

11-04-2009, 08:48 PM

I used to think a big ladder truck in our town was excessive untill a neighbor on a street next to my house (facing my side yard) had a small fire in the back of the house. A one story house. The engine was first on scene and went a little past the house which I thought was strange. He knocked down the fire with a 3/4 inch precharged line. Seconds after the engine arrived the big ladder arrived and stopped in the street directly in front of the house. The ladder was extended over the yard and over the house untill the gun on the ladder was facing the rear of the house. He was ready to hit it with a serious blast if needed or put a hole in the roof to vent it if needed. My neighbor had minimal damage and somehow that big ladder did not seem excessive anymore.

fatlazyless

11-05-2009, 09:29 AM

At $750,000 the 100' tower truck is not enough boom for the buck. Considering the town already had two fire stations and 4-5 existing fire trucks, does it really need this very expensive new truck?

Spending the same money over a twenty year period on a Meredith resident dental hygene program would be much more effective. A dental hygene program would reach out to improve the health of many residents, and definately save and lengthen many more lives than a fire truck.

I'm not talking about having the town pay for dental surgery like root canals, fillings, or crowns. What I am talking about is a program that teaches and introduces good tooth care and introduces people to the dentist. With a number of fine local dentists some type of a town program could be set up.

A lot of people just let their teeth go until they end up at the emergency room. With increased availability of town assisited dental check-ups and cleaning, it would start people on the route to better health and longer & stronger lives.

Much better for the town to invest in individual health care like oral hygene than in an expensive new fire truck. More will benefit and more lives will be saved!;):);)

SIKSUKR

11-05-2009, 11:02 AM

Much better for the town to invest in individual health care like oral hygene than in an expensive new fire truck. More will benefit and more lives will be saved!;):);)

But what if the dentist office burned down because the old ladder truck couldn't reach it?:confused:Dental insurance paid by the town but nowhere to have your teeth fixed.:laugh::laugh:

ITD

11-05-2009, 12:47 PM

Come on Less, the $750,000 fire truck is a one time, 20 to 40 year investment. Your proposed dental plan is a $750,000 per year boondoggle that will undoubtedly cost 2 to 3 times what you initially estimate.

What's the matter, you got a toothache?

Yosemite Sam

11-05-2009, 01:29 PM

The 2007 Census estimate for Meredith, NH was 6616 residents.
If everyone in Meredith went to the Dentist just to have thier teeth cleaned it would cost the town @ $661,600. Then if some of the people needed xrays taken, you can add another $400,000 to that.
Total bill for that year just for general maitenance would be well over 1 million.
Then you have to tack on another million to have someone run the program which would bring the bill up 2 million.

I think you have been hanging around with Obama too much!

I would rather pay a one time charge of $750,000 for a fire truck.

John A. Birdsall

11-05-2009, 04:03 PM

Well this has always been a subject that gets interesting. For example, when they pull the USS Enterprise out of water they scrap "Her" bottom. and for a long time is the only female that went to sea on ships. So if they pull the mount are they gonna scrape "her" bottom?

However I have never heard of a car, or truck called a her or he.

:laugh:

fatlazyless

11-05-2009, 06:49 PM

Maybe I'm all wet on this but here goes....whatever.....

Here's a couple of items to consider while thinking about the benefits of a new aerial tower truck and/or a town oral hygene program..

The New Hampshire state legislature is considering a bill, HB 301, that allows dental hygienists to practice independantly without being employed by a dentist.

The five selectmen who voted 5-0 in favor of this extremely expensive truck....they all get town paid health insurance that includes dental.

While driving past the Community Center one sees baby sitting lessons, basketball and such activities posted on the signboard. In my opinion, medical programs using local providers would be money better spent than a $750,000 fire truck.

Ya know, if the town can afford "Cadillac" health insurance for its' employees, teachers, police & selectmen then why not some low level medical programs for the residents? Can't hurt to give it a try....and start with basic oral hygene.....you know....brushing, flossing, bleeding gums, plaque....and all that good stuff.... a check-up clinic.....

After all.....who pays the property tax that pays for their health & dental insurance?

Do you have dental insurance?

Kamper

11-05-2009, 07:37 PM

Maybe I'm all wet on this ... ?

I believe the correct term is "off topic." :laugh:

I have had dental problems so believe me, I am not making fun of those who need help in that area. The fire truck will have no impact on the local dental health but it will provide flexibility and greater capabilities in the town's response to fire emergencies.

The state's regulation of dental hygenists has no impact on local budget issues. A government's fiscal priorities change form year to year. Partly in response to which need has been ignored the longest and partly due to when and how loud the voters expres their opinion. This is more noticable at the local level.

If dental is really your passion then all I can say is... Better luck next time!

Heaven

11-05-2009, 08:24 PM

When times are good, we hear "municipal salaries are only 60% of private salaries, but they get good benefits so they don't deserve a raise!" and as soon as the economy turns we hear "the town employees have "Cadillac" benefits that we should cut!" . . . . can't win for losing . . .

Coolbreeze

11-05-2009, 10:09 PM

Nobody is ever 100% happy with anything...it's the American way!

Happy Gourmand

11-06-2009, 07:51 AM

FLL.....sounds like you need to get a town job!!:laugh::laugh:

SIKSUKR

11-06-2009, 10:46 AM

FLL.....sounds like you need to get a town job!!:laugh::laugh:

Ya,they must need a vice president in charge of push-ups.:laugh:

NoBozo

11-06-2009, 11:24 AM

If everyone who drinks "Bottled Water" were to switch over to "Tap Water" they would get FLUORIDE and their teeth wouldn't ROT. Just sayin.. :D

I actually have a reusable water bottle with the Politically Correct..AND SHEIK label on it so everyone can see that I'm in touch. I replenish the water from the Tap. NB

PS: I'm 68 and I still have my own teeth. :)

jmen24

11-06-2009, 11:30 AM

Heaven

11-06-2009, 11:37 AM

Yea, and next time I go to buy a car , or home owners insurance, or grocerys for that matter, I want the cost of the company's health and dental insurance deducted from the price.

wifi

11-06-2009, 12:16 PM

....they would get FLUORIDE and their teeth wouldn't ROT.....

Be careful of fluoride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4XhhTF7vRM

NoBozo

11-06-2009, 12:57 PM

Be careful of fluoride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4XhhTF7vRM

Precious Bodily Fluids: Totally Off Topic...However..

That movie was one of my all time favorites. I remember that guy with the cowboy hat...was it Slim Pickens.? .... Flying out of the bomb bay of that B-52 straddling a nuke bomb. Fire In The Hole...YEE Hah..Those were the days. :D NB

scubajay1153

11-06-2009, 01:37 PM

A fire rages around your chimney burning thru the roof of your 2.5 story home that is 35 feet high to the peak and it 45 feet back from the road. Your trees prevent the large fire apparatus from driving in close to the scene and your nice new metal roof precludes the use of standard fire service ground ladders for access. Any guess how long of a reach it is for the tower to get to your chimney? (Thats right, a minimum of 80 feet of aerial ladder) Any guess how much safer it is to work from the platform to open the roof to get at the fire than to teeter on ladders (on a wintery metal roof to boot)? Any guess how long it takes to take those same hand thrown ground ladders and move them from window to window on different floors and on different sides of the building rescuing one screaming guest at a time from the hotel? Wanna guess how much easier it is (and how much SAFER) to move from window to window with the bucket and "pick off" those people in groups of 3, 4, or 5 before sending them down the ladder in care of a firefighter, or even better, lowering them directly to the ground?

I am not a Meredith FF nor a Meredith town resident. I am a professional firefighter who, like everyone else in the region, works in a department that does the most it can with the manpower and equipment we have. This truck bought by the town was bought FOR it's residents, tax payers and their property and more importantly their SAFETY. We have a tough job. We still do it, and believe me it is NOT for the "Cadillac" benefits packages. Most of us don't have dental and surely not the top notch insurances. The best thing anyone can do in this instance is to go to the Fire Station, knock on the door and ASK the fire chief and his members about the department, the job, and the new truck and how it affects things. It is their responsibility to inform and educate you and it's your right to know. Ask them, most of us love to talk about our jobs and how it affects the community. You might just walk away richer for the experience.

brk-lnt

11-06-2009, 03:12 PM

A fire rages around your chimney burning thru the roof of your 2.5 story home that is 35 feet high to the peak and it 45 feet back from the road.

It's nice of you (and everyone else) to offer some descriptions/justifications of the 100' ladder truck. I don't think any of the normal and rational people here ever called the purchase into question though. You're basically tilting at windmills trying to argue with people comparing fire trucks to dental plans.

Just use the "ignore" feature and move on...

ITD

11-06-2009, 05:08 PM

It's nice of you (and everyone else) to offer some descriptions/justifications of the 100' ladder truck. I don't think any of the normal and rational people here ever called the purchase into question though. You're basically tilting at windmills trying to argue with people comparing fire trucks to dental plans.

Just use the "ignore" feature and move on...

Maybe a certain person just found out he has gingivitis? :eek:

Rattlesnake Guy

11-06-2009, 06:56 PM

Let it go the first time but can't again

750,000 at 5% interest for 20 years = $60,000 per year.

If they put all of the money into your mouth and didn't buy a truck...

$60,000 / 6617 residents = $9.06 dental benefit per year.

Don't forget to hire someone to administer.

I don't think you can read the magazines in the dentist office for 9 bucks a year.

boat_guy64

11-06-2009, 07:50 PM

FLL,

You can get FREE, yes FREE dental cleanings at the Concord campus of NHTI. They have a dental hygiene program and have students that need clinical patients on a daily basis. You can get your teeth cleaned for free and Meredith still gets their ladder truck. You also help a student get clinical experience. What a deal.

My wife graduated from the program and they were always looking for patients.

Coolbreeze

11-06-2009, 09:17 PM

FLL,
You could do the town a favor and dress up as Santa for the town parade and you might even be allowed to ride in the bucket of the new truck during the parade. And don't worry about your halitosis, it will be drowned out by the smell of the moth balls from storing the Santa suit.
Cheers!

RI Swamp Yankee

11-06-2009, 09:41 PM

I am confused, is this a thread about paying a lot for a fire truck or a thread about dental care? :confused:

ACutAbove

11-06-2009, 10:07 PM

FLL are you a dentist just trying to drum up some business??? HAHA

I have heard that the fire dept . has been saving money for about 12 yrs to buy this truck. Now I dont know if that was rumor or not but I think it is paid for or pretty close to it. Take it for what is worth but until we know the whole story behind something lets not tear the back out of it just because someone doesnt agree with a decision to do something.
I personally would rather see money spent on a piece of equiptment that WILL save someones life...and you never know it could be yours!!!

ARV

11-10-2009, 08:07 AM

...that I heard they have already damaged the bucket to this ladder truck and it's gone (being repaired?) from the Meredith FD.

It is heresay, but I don't believe I've seen it in Meredith lately?

fatlazyless

11-10-2009, 08:38 AM

For about the last 24 months, the Town of Warren NH, located in Grafton County, way up in the mountains, has been looking for an ice rescue boat.

How do I know? Because the Warren volunteer Fire Dept has been running a craigslist, boat section ad looking for a donation of a 14' flat bottom boat which the fire dept will outfit for ice rescues.

Meredith has a volunteer fire department, but you never see Meredith looking for equipment donations in craigslist. As I recall, a news article from September 2008 reported that Pierce-Arrow Fire Truck of Wisconsin had a new 2008 aerial tower for sale for about $600,000 which was almost the same as the new truck but noooo(!), the Town of Meredith wanted a truck that was just the way they wanted it.....they wanted what they wanted.

While Meredith and Warren are only about a one hour drive away.....their budget and town management is like 50 years different. NH is not really a state....it's more like a collection of 250 different towns and cities, seperate and not at all equal in purchasing power.

tis

11-10-2009, 09:45 AM

If my house catches on fire, I would rather have it burn flat. We had friends who had a fire once and every time we went to visit after it was rebuilt, I could still smell the smoke. I would rather start from scratch.

Heaven

11-10-2009, 12:12 PM

While Meredith and Warren are only about a one hour drive away.....their budget and town management is like 50 years different. NH is not really a state....it's more like a collection of 250 different towns and cities, seperate and not at all equal in purchasing power.

One hour apart by land, a thousand miles apart economically/socially.

4 for Boating

11-10-2009, 04:54 PM

Being a home owner in Meredith my feeling is that it sometimes hard to argue any one purchase when it’s looked at in any single point in time > New police station, New (or re-furbished) fire station, New fire truck, New community center ….

However, the quantity of these large capital purchases in such a short time is what has me concerned. How much did/will the community center cost the town? Did the town know that this would be immediately followed by the new Police Station, Fire Station and then Fire Truck? Just seems like we are in a “we have the money to spend so what do we need” No thought of reducing the taxes on residents if you ask me. What to do as it’s not unlike most other towns I suppose.

Coolbreeze

11-10-2009, 05:41 PM

I know in my department we have a committee of grant writers, all active volunteers, they look to see what government grants are available for specific equipment and they write up the grant request. We may not get 100% of the money but any little bit helps. Maybe that is what the town did for this new truck. Also, it is not unusuall for the truck to suffer some damage in the first year or two as it is a new piece of equipment that has to be put through the paces for the guys to get used to. You would be amazed at the amount of repairs that most departments have.

6meter

11-10-2009, 06:10 PM

That is how Meredith operates. People keep giving them their money, so the powers to be keep spending it. A tax break? Come on now! Way to much Mass influence has crept up to central NH. I predict in '10 or '11 there will be a new DPW and a new library. They will vote on it in Jan or Feb so there won't be any part time residents there. The new fire truck....?? Not money well spent. If the hotels in town need a ladder truck, do as what Loudon did. Have them buy it. Besides, by the time a fire truck reaches my house, it's just ashes.

angela4design

11-12-2009, 10:21 AM

ARV... You're absolutely right!

I heard second-hand that the truck was damaged, from backing into the building! The building is fine, but the brand new truck? $100,000 estimated repairs!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I would hate to be the person who did it! Yikes!!

meredith weekender

11-12-2009, 05:19 PM

You would have thought that after spending all that $$$$$ to renovate and add on to the fire house that they could have designed the larger bays as drive thru style to avoid backing large trucks up. :confused::confused::confused:

Pineedles

11-12-2009, 07:22 PM

I would have thought that they would have insurance to pay for accidental damage? I'm sure they do.:)

username5

11-12-2009, 08:59 PM

Accidents do happen and insurance does exist.

scubajay1153

11-13-2009, 09:49 AM

So it wasn't the town's property but it was being driven? So why should the manufacturer pay for something they didn't do? With as much furor as this truck has brought on this board alone I would reconsider posting a smiley that is laughing concerning this issue.

And as far as the mutual aid issue as to why a truck is bought that is hog wash. No town should contemplate the purchase of a vehicle to address the needs of another community. It should be a purchase to address the needs of THAT community SOLELY. If another community calls that resource for emergency as it can be useful in dealing with it, then so be it. I.E., We have two ladder trucks in Laconia, including our own brand new ladder tower to address OUR citizens safety and issues immediately at the onset of incidents.

twoplustwo

11-13-2009, 10:13 AM

It's a fire truck, folks. It's designed to save your life and help protect the lives of the firefighters while they are saving you. Their hours suck, their lives are constantly interrupted and they are underpaid, IMO, for putting their lives on the line for us every day. The least we can do is make sure they have the equipment they need to do their job.

Our towns have spent the past few years in a ridiculous competition to outspend each other on one Taj Mahal or another. We have lots to complain about where spending is concerned. A fire truck shouldn't be on that list.

FLL, go to Concord and get your teeth fixed. And hope your overtaxed lakefront doesn't catch on fire while you're there. I'd hate to have you complaining about the gas the new fire truck used to go there and put it out.

angela4design

11-13-2009, 04:28 PM

$35,000 for repair sounds more plausible; as I disclaimed, I had heard that $100k price tag second hand.

I for one, wouldn't want to try driving any of those emergency vehicles. A new vehicle is hard enough to get used to, without the added factors of length, height, etc. I always wondered how they get used to driving a truck which has a seat that's already like 6' higher than the ground!

Our firefighters are INDISPENSABLE, and I wouldn't breathe a bad word about them. If my house was on fire, the last thing I would be worrying about is how much the truck cost to put it out. I wouldn't wonder for anyone ELSE's house, either! It's not like it has a hefty price tag because it has flatscreens, DVD players and hot rims... it's a FIRE TRUCK! Everything on it serves a purpose to do a job, to protect our lives and property and the lives and safety of the rescue workers on it. And God Bless Them for Doing it!

username5

11-13-2009, 08:19 PM

"Our firefighters are INDISPENSABLE, and I wouldn't breathe a bad word about them. If my house was on fire, the last thing I would be worrying about is how much the truck cost to put it out. I wouldn't wonder for anyone ELSE's house, either! It's not like it has a hefty price tag because it has flatscreens, DVD players and hot rims... it's a FIRE TRUCK! Everything on it serves a purpose to do a job, to protect our lives and property and the lives and safety of the rescue workers on it. And God Bless Them for Doing it!"

Agreed!!! Everyone should be supportive.

fatlazyless

11-13-2009, 08:30 PM

We have two ladder trucks in Laconia, including our own brand new ladder tower to address OUR citizens safety and issues immediately at the onset of incidents.

.....hey ScubaJay......what type of tower truck has Laconia recently purchased? Is it a $750,000, 100' tower, 2009 Pierce with a 5500 gpm pump like what Meredith now has?

Probably, Laconia got their "new" truck at the Saint Vincent dePaul second hand store for twelve dollars because it is a large plastic, toy model fire engine.....nice try.....keep dream'n about a real aerial tower for Laconia :D....!

scubajay1153

11-15-2009, 08:41 AM

FLL, I have no clue why I am bothering to justify you're post with a reply but I will.

Since this time last year I have sat on the committee that planned, spec'd out and traveled not once, but twice to Florida on purchasing and inspections and acceptance missions. Not only that but I have driven this "dream" of a ladder truck twice and set it up a handful of times. It has been out and about the last two weeks as the members get trained and familiarized with the unit prior to being put in service.

And for the record it is a 2009 E-One 100 ft ladder tower (no pump or water tank) with front bumper mounted hydraulic rescue tools and numerous other features designed and spec'd by us for our community needs. Unsure of exact figures as we received some grant monies for the unit but I believe it is around $8-900,000 from taxpayers money.

Not sure why you feel the need to be snide and condescending nor why I feel the need to reply to you. But this is for the benefit of the others in this forum who are civil.

fatlazyless

11-15-2009, 08:07 PM

Hey ScubaJay,

Thanks for taking the time to write a serious reply and overlooking my snide comments. It's good because it lets people know something about the fire dept.

By the way, Saint Vincent's has some good used, low priced fire truck toys for nice gifts.

As I understand, Laconia is a city of about 18000, and Meredith is a town of about 6000. Laconia has a full time fire dept and Meredith has an on-call, volunteer fire dept.

Maybe I'm a wee bit of a cheapie and probably think different than the Meredith selectmen, but if it were up to me I'd ask this question: Considering that neighboring Laconia already has a 100' tower truck why does Meredith need to buy one, too? Like, how many expensive trucks does the area really need without breaking the property tax payers?

Do any of the surrounding towns of Center Harbor, Moultonborough, Holderness, Gilford, Alton, or Belmont have 100' tower trucks? And, are trucks purchased for each town on an individual town basis or on an area-wide regional basis?

As far as I know, only the City of Laconia out of all the towns mentioned, has a full time, paid fire dept while the others have on-call fire depts. Is it a problem for Meredith and other towns to rapidly rally enough on-call fire fighters to effectively arrive to an emergency? As everyone knows, a fire truck is useless without someone to drive it and additional people to operate it.

Rattlesnake Guy

11-15-2009, 09:08 PM

Scuba Jay
Thank you for the details. Always interesting to understand the behind the scene workings. I remember a town meeting years ago in our town where we are fortunate enough to have a volunteer force. The chief went through the numbers with the town meeting crowd. The same residents had just argued down the last spending article.

The chief outlined the trade offs of the technology and cost on a new truck we needed. He was questioned on the impact of technology on the need for volunteer head count. Once the attendees understood that spending a bit more would mean that fewer brave men could do more during the early minutes of a response, Someone made a motion to increase the amount to allow the chief to get more truck than he was asking for to maximize the impact of our volunteer force. The motion passed with a vote in the 90 percent range.

Thank you for what you do.

scubajay1153

11-16-2009, 01:44 AM

FLL, some good questions, some of which I can not answer, some I can.

As far as why each town may have a similar truck I explained a bit earlier why a town would buy something for it's community and I guess the only bit more I can offer is that the Laconia ladder trucks are first, and foremost for our city and they may not always be available to come to every fire alarm, chimney fire, or house fire in an adjoining community. Belmont has a very similar truck to Meredith's (in pump size, ladder length, etc) and there are additional ladder trucks in Plymouth, Alton, New Durham, Wolfeboro, Bristol, Franklin and Tilton. Note the issue of travel time to other communities if one was to summon one mutual aid. (Gilford gets an engine and ladder truck from Laconia on any reported building fire and they respond with automatic response into the city as well for the same)

And, as you mentioned breaking the taxpayers, why should the taxpayers of these communities fork out the money to buy a unit so other towns don't have to? In some areas of the country this "regional" purchasing works well as the areas are similar in response area. IN this area distance, hills, and varying needs of each community make it hard to say, buy 3 ladder trucks exactly the same, and spread them out in the county as one area may be able to use a tractor trailer ladder truck for wide boulevards and driving areas while the other needs a 500 hp motor and a short wheel base for tight access areas and severe hills.

I can tell you that Gilford, Belmont, Tilton and Franklin all have a 24 hr a day fulltime staff of 2-3 people a shift (not including daytime chiefs and such) all backed by off duty and call FF. Meredith and Alton have fulltime chiefs and call departments and I believe Moultonborough has a couple/three day people and call FF. Don't know about the others. At fires I have been at in Laconia that Meredith has come they always seem to show with a crew of 3-4 on each unit we request but I am usually to busy to notice how long it takes for them to get responding and arrive. For that you would have to ask the fine folks at MFD what the figures are.....

And St. Vincent De Paul does a great service to the community and I am sure that they have some great toys for the kiddies.

RG:
Obviously I have no stake in the Meredith fire truck nor community issues (I live in Gilford and work in the City). I merely wanted to toss some information out to help folks understand the issue a bit better from my "hands on" view. You mention the chief explaining the issue to the crowd and that is the key. Educate, inform and relate the issue to the public (PURSE STRING HOLDERS). When they are given the knowledge people feel they can make better decisions either way they choose to vote. Like I said earlier, it's our duty to educate, inform and relate to the public, and it is their right to know. But if they don't ask, or we don't tell...know one wins.

A fact I can offer:
Soon both of these units will be in service, both departments will be thankful to the taxpayers for allowing us to purchase them to provide better service to them and allow us to do it more safely. Watch the papers, I would imagine stuff will pop up when the training is done and the trucks are ready to respond.

twoplustwo

11-16-2009, 06:56 AM

...or typed, as the case may be.

Maybe I'm a wee bit of a cheapie

That made me snort my coffee. Seriously, FLL, stop with the comedy routine.:laugh:

tis

11-16-2009, 07:24 AM

You are a very sensible person, scuba! Wolfeboro also has a full time fire dept.

fatlazyless

11-16-2009, 08:36 AM

Hey ScubaJay.....it's interesting to hear about the local fire depts and how they work together.

I don't know....it just seems to me that it is more a case of the firefighter doing the job than the fire truck. Getting the job done is probably more to do with people and training and less than with a brand new fire truck.

If I were a selectman I would go search around for a good used fire truck, about 75-90% less in price than brand new, and go buy a new gallon of red Rustoleum paint.....etc.

Surely, there must be many small town and out-in-the-country fire depts, from all over, that go
this route. Big cities with full time, big budget depts buy new, and the small towns buy their used equipment and do repairs. A fire truck probably has a very long life what with fire dept maintenance. Hydraulics, pumps, and engines are designed to be renewed, rebuilt or replaced. Frames get welded to a fix and that old 'ruck' becomes a 'new truck', good-to-go, to the next fire.

Firefighters and not fire trucks are the dominant factor in fighting a fire. I imagine you can take a brand new truck and quickly break it through operator misuse. Is that what happened with Meredith's new truck?

For a small community to be buying $750,000 fire trucks: It's all about what it can afford and not what it really needs. Necessity is still the mother of invention. And, as everyone has heard: Why buy new, when you can buy a good used truck?

:patriot:www.bradfordfireapparatus.com:patriot:

SIKSUKR

11-16-2009, 10:10 AM

This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.

jmen24

11-16-2009, 10:36 AM

This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.

LMAO, one of the funniest posts I have read in a long time.

FLL, why not run for an elected position, I'd say Treasurer, then you control the check book AND you can still complain about the things they want to do with taxpayer money.

ITD

11-16-2009, 03:08 PM

LMAO, one of the funniest posts I have read in a long time.

FLL, why not run for an elected position, I'd say Treasurer, then you control the check book AND you can still complain about the things they want to do with taxpayer money.

Oh boy, careful what you ask for, FLL would have you all paying a fat income tax if it were up to him. Forget politics, keep posting here Less.

Yosemite Sam

11-16-2009, 03:54 PM

It took 11 years of planning and saving to get this new piece of fire equipment for Meredith. Below are minutes of a 10/06/08 Board Of Selectmen meeting that talks about the purchase:

Since 1998, funds have been set aside in an ETF for the financing of fire equipment. In order to
meet the demands of a growing Town, the Fire Department is seeking to authorize the use of
existing funds in the ETF to purchase an aerial ladder truck. Fire Chief Ken Jones explained
how the decision was made to purchase a Pierce 100’ aerial ladder. The Department spoke with
different manufacturers and viewed apparatus at the New England fire chief’s annual meeting in
Springfield, Massachusetts. The Pierce model includes a bucket that provides for more safety
than a traditional ladder. It is anticipated that the truck will serve the Town for 25-30 years. If
the Town authorizes a payment of $727,000 within 10 days of the signing of the contract, it will
save roughly $40,000 on the total cost of the truck. This represents a greater savings than what
would be realized if the funds remain in an interest bearing account for the ten months it will
take to build the truck. The balance is due upon delivery of the truck. A performance bond
guaranty will be issued to the Town for the $727,000 payment.

Dialogue ensued regarding purchasing a demo model at a lower price. Upon investigation, the
Department learned that it would be more costly to purchase a demo model because they include
many extra features that the Town does not need.
The Board agreed that setting funds aside in an ETF for the purchase of the equipment has
worked extremely well for the Town. The Chair directed Co-Interim Town Manager Brenda
Vittner to investigate what bank the irrevocable letter of credit will be drawn on.
Selectman Palm moved that the Board authorize the expenditure of $760,897 from the ETF, and
signing of the bid proposal by Administrative Services after their review, and obtain a completed
performance guarantee from Pierce and their bank. Seconded by Selectman Worsman.
Resident Dave Sticht understood that a demo truck was going to be built to the Town’s
specifications, and the Town would purchase it at a reduced cost. Selectman Palm told Mr.
Sticht that upon further investigation, the Company was not interested in that option.
Resident Keith True commended Selectman Palm and the current Chief for saving the Town
money on the purchase. The purchase of a replacement truck was a dream ten years ago, and is
now a reality.

4 for Boating

11-16-2009, 08:39 PM

Interesting. At least it looks like someone had the foresight to see a new truck was needed. Does it say how much the town saved over the period of time for the truck?

Having said that, I can completely understand planning to get a fire truck when needed. However, is it not a matter of if the town really needs it, then maybe something else needs to go unfunded? (Maybe something that is not tied to public safety?)

As this has peaked my interest in terms of town spending, I tried to look up some history for Meredith concerning capital purchases and found the below from the 2008 town report. Not always sure if I’m interpreting these things correctly but if you look at the spending trend (not including any 2009 purchases such as the Fire Truck), it appears that:

For a 7 year period from 1998-2004 Capital Purchases/Debt were ~ $7.6M
For a 4 year period from 2005-2008 Capital Purchases/Debt were ~ $8.9M

That’s a 15% increase from past history in almost half as many years.

1988 Cotton Hill Sewer Bond $603,200
1989 Library Expansion Bond $750,000
1988 Water System Improvement Bond $2,000,000
1994 Cataldo Road Sewer Bond $229,000
1998 Westbury Road Sewer Bond $55,000
1998 Wagon Wheel Sewer Bond $211,874
1999 Pleasant Street Bond $1,400,000
2001 Neal Shore Sewer Bond $200,000
2002 Plymouth St/Rte 3 North Bond $948,770
2002 Plymouth St/Rte 3 North Bond $637,467
2004 Conservation Bond $500,000
2004 East Bluff Village Sewer Bond $115,381
2005 Community Center Bond $3,500,000
2007 Police Station Bond $1,500,000
2007 Bundled Water/Sewer/Roads $1,220,000
2008 Fire Station Bond $2,292,882
2008 Page Pond Conservation $400,000

fatlazyless

11-18-2009, 08:29 AM

Today's Nov 18 www.citizen.com has an article on Laconia's new $879,000 - 100' aerial tower truck, and how the 20 year old truck it is replacing was sold to a Vermont fire dept for $20,000.

Old fire trucks never die, they just get sold off to another fire dept which has less taxpayer money to spend. No doubt, a smaart buy for a small Vermont volunteer fire dept who will renew-repair-replace and keep it going for another twenty years.

Property taxes are not all that based on one's ability to pay, and this truck will be paid with the Laconia property tax.

The Citizen article says that the fire dept has recently been training to operate the new truck at the now closed Freudenberg-NOK car parts factory on Hounsell Ave. Approximately 130 Freudenberg employees lost their good paying, manufactoring jobs there in 2008. As Laconia property tax payers who have lost their jobs they are probably not too pleased paying for a new $879,000 truck when the old one could have been kept going.

BroadHopper

11-18-2009, 01:08 PM

Just got my Laconia tax bill with a big fat $300 increase for 6 months! Being unemployed for over a year, I am not pleased with the new truck. =(

I had a feeling there going to be a 'one up' when a neighboring fire department gets a new 'toy'.

Coolbreeze

11-18-2009, 09:32 PM

Broadhopper,
Hang in there, something will give and hopefully you will be back to work. We are all hoping your unemployment will be over soon.

Argie's Wife

11-18-2009, 10:20 PM

Have you considered what your home owners' insurance rates would climb to if your town did not have adequate fire safety equipment?

Yes, the equipment at your local fire station is audited by home owners' insurance company's underwriters and it is a HUGE factor in what you pay for rates. All Capital Improvement Plan items (such as this fire truck) are also considered when your town's credit rating is factored.

I would assume that the purchase was made via the Municipal buying plan, which allows for payments to be made over several years and gives towns better buying power when they join the plan. The money is raised via Warrant articles or at the town meeting.

Alton is seeking to purchase a new ladder truck this year and a no-frills model would be about $600K, I believe. The old truck has some rust issues and although it passed inspecting this year, that may not be true next year. A ladder truck is NOT something that you want to have a breakdown with or have to use as just a tank truck, which would be the fate with the old truck here in Alton. Planning ahead is best - for all.

fatlazyless

11-19-2009, 10:10 AM

Well.......Alton could have purchased Laconia's twenty year old, ladder truck for $20,000 as did a fire dept from Vermont. Why....right now....that old Laconia ladder truck is probably sitting in a Vermont garage getting a thorough inspection of everything from bumper to bumper. And, in three months time, whatever needed repairing will be fixed and the old ladder truck will be good-to-go, and in use for many more years.

According to the Citizen article the old Laconia ladder truck was said to have the equivalent of 300,000 miles of use. As many readers here probably are not aware, it is pretty common for a commercial truck to be kept going until it gets to 900,000 or 1,000,000 miles so 300,000 miles is considered low miles.

Anyone know what Vermont town now has the ladder truck? Possibly, they have a website talking about their terrific $20,000 new-used ladder truck purchase, and how it came from a very wealthy NH waterfront town.

scubajay1153

11-19-2009, 11:30 AM

....because it's not worth my time to continue to have to go against misinformation and speculation.

Firstly, the newspaper article also stated the many reason why the truck was needing replacement (repairs, overweight,etc) so if one goes to the article FLL chose to only quote some of, that info would be easily gleaned.

The 1989 ladder truck was not only not sufficient for our needs but was not up to National Fire Standards which call for a fully enclosed cab with seating for all riders with appropriate seatbelts, only one rear axle which is no longer allowed in that with that weight / load design along with lack ability to hold the equipment needed for operation. It simply had out grown its useful life for our community. This vehicle was SOLD for $20,000. No where does it state how much that the next community will have to put into safety upgrades, corrosion repair/abatement, paint and other items to get into service into that community. It is not a plug and play truck for them, they will have to fork out more for certain. The truck originally cost over $500,000 so extrapolate that loss of value out on your brand new car and see what the percentage of resale value is and see what the final figure is. Take that tiny chunk of change and see what kind of used car you can buy and it's quality. Yep, thats right. Same thing here....

While I feel the sting of increases in tax bills as well as I am a property owner and taxpayer, I find issue with Broadhoppers comment. While that $300 increase plain takes a bite out of the wallet I can feel quite safe in guessing (high no doubt) that out of that $300 a miniscule amount went towards that new ladder truck. I would be shocked if the individual household paid more then the cost of a cup of coffee towards it. Have issues all you want as it is your right, but that truck didn't do the damage to your finances.

The estimate on miles is because we can not pinpoint a value of the wear and tear on the frame and motor of the truck while it is use as a ladder truck at a call or simple idling at the emergency scene. They have to estimate the engine hours into miles somehow and I honestly don't know the formula but I can assure you it is much more work on the truck and motor then the odometer implies.

And Broadhopper this truck was on the CIP for the city since before I was hired here in Christmas season 2001 so no "one upsmanship" was occurring. THis was a well thought out and planned replacement.

And FLL, last night I drove the "old" ladder truck to reported house fire. It is sitting at the Central Station, still in service, awaiting the other truck to get placed in service. So that "Vermont" department will just have to wait until we make the swap to the new truck so we don't lessen the protection we are offering to our citizens.

Also in the CIP is to replace the two old engines (30 yrs and 23 yrs respectively) with a new engine, and new pumper/tanker in the next few years. But don't worry, I rounded up the truck committee and we are off to check out a prospective and more FLL friendly (wallet wise) new unit that will be a cost effective unit, heck, we wont even have to air condition this beauty.....

Pineedles

11-19-2009, 04:28 PM

A big thank you to Scubajay1153.

Coolbreeze

11-19-2009, 08:43 PM

Well said scubajay!

fatlazyless

11-19-2009, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the post ScubaJay and all the items on the trucks. It's a lot easier to understand a truck than a new building since everyone has experience with their car, and mileage , and repairs. You know, trucks are just like cars, except they are bigger.

There used to be an old fire pump carraige on display at the Meredith Mobil which looked like it got pulled by a single horse. Now, that would probably be very cost efficient.......a horse drawn fire pumper! No expensive diesel fuel needed......just a bag of Blue Seal to feed Ole Lucille.....at her daily feeding time.

By the way, I'm look'n for a job driv'n a tractor trailer, fire dept aerial tower with a big water tank and a big pump. Yes, I have the cdl-a, haz-mat, tanker, air brakes & med card endorsements. Where's my job? Maybe, in Vermont? :patriot::patriot::patriot:

How's about I drive the old Laconia ladder truck to Vermont, and when I get there I say "Hello Vermont', and by the way, I come with your new-used $20,000 truck deal, as a driver.......what a deal!

BroadHopper

11-19-2009, 09:55 PM

Guess I owe you an apology. It just that the timing kind of throw things out of perspective. Can't argue with your logic.

The city manager mention in the papers that asses values are down and thus raised the tax rate. While my tax rate is up the assess value did not go down. So I got a good bite! Ouch!

Argie's Wife

11-20-2009, 10:15 AM

SIKSUKR

11-20-2009, 11:04 AM

The city manager mention in the papers that asses values are down and thus raised the tax rate.

Who knew? I thought my rear end was holding its value quite well.:laugh:

fatlazyless

11-22-2009, 07:54 AM

I hear that taxes are higher in VT.... :D

So, a high tax Vermont fire dept purchases a 20-year old, $20,000 ladder truck from Laconia, and low tax Laconia purchases a new 2009 $850,000, 100' aerial tower. And, from where does low tax Laconia get all that $850,000?

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

Beyond my huffing & puffing here....I still say...the 18000 population of Laconia would be better served if the town kept the old truck and used the $850,000 for dental cleaning & check-ups and oral health paid out to local dentists and oral hygienists. More Laconians would benefit from that than from a new truck.

And, do the Laconia firefighters already get dental insurance as part of their pay package?

Janet

11-22-2009, 08:12 AM

Time to end this thread!?

twoplustwo

11-22-2009, 08:19 AM

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

I think Scubajay has done a phenomenal job of explaining why equipment like this is needed, how safety requirements change, and how little of an impact an expense like this has on your overall taxes. Rather than accept his information, you sit and pick at the subject like a scab on your knee with lame, baseless arguments. You're relentless. It's exhausting to read and demeaning to all local FDs trying to save lives.

Until you have the statistics of both towns so you can compare income and expense information, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

Janet

11-22-2009, 08:45 AM

Yosemite Sam

11-22-2009, 09:01 AM

If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

I'll second that motion!

fatlazyless

11-22-2009, 10:05 AM

And, do the Laconia firefighters already get dental insurance as part of their pay package?

...ok...so I'll answer my question......yes, the Laconia firefighters do indeed get dental coverage as it is a full-time fire dept as opposed to an on-call dept in Meredith.

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

If you are a Laconia or Meredith property tax payer, then you know very well if you have health & dental for yourself, while at the same time your property taxes are paying the health & dental for the town employees such as police, fire, town, school, & selectmen.

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Yosemite Sam

11-22-2009, 10:45 AM

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

They do? :confused:

scubajay1153

11-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Another BOLD LIE by FLL!

I won't bite to hard......because I DO NOT HAVE DENTAL and can't pay for the damage it will do to my mouth. The FF's and Police in the City DO NOT HAVE DENTAL because the City REFUSES to entertain the thought of offering it to us. We continue to ask, they continue deny. Period.

twoplustwo

11-22-2009, 12:08 PM

This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.

Uf da. Make it stop.:(

Heaven

11-22-2009, 12:13 PM

...ok...so I'll answer my question......yes, the Laconia firefighters do indeed get dental coverage as it is a full-time fire dept as opposed to an on-call dept in Meredith.

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

If you are a Laconia or Meredith property tax payer, then you know very well if you have health & dental for yourself, while at the same time your property taxes are paying the health & dental for the town employees such as police, fire, town, school, & selectmen.

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Thank you for paying me to do my job. I endeavor to do the best possible job for you, the citizens of my town, for as long as I am in your employ.

fatlazyless

11-22-2009, 08:40 PM

Hi ScubaJay....you obviously know about the specifics of your job so I owe you an apology for suggesting Laconia gives you dental insurance coverage.

As far as the Meredith Selectmen, I base that on what I read in the Laconia Daily Sun from aproximately Sept 2008. As I recall, the five selectmen, according to the LaDaSun were discussing ways to keep costs down, and someone, probably Chairman Peter Brothers was reported to have looked around at all four other selectmen and say something like "I believe this will be the best that we can do unless you will agree to all give up your health insurance benefits. Looking around the room, no one raised their hand, and the discussion moved on." (a paraphrase from memory)

I'm looking around in the LaDaSun search engine, and will get back with the exact quote. But, that piece of info struck a chord (boing!) in my brain and stayed with me.

Again, ScubaJay....sorry for the false info on my part....nothing personal....your work is appreciated....especially when it's a real fire like at my own house, and not just a false alarm somewhere else! fll

tis

11-23-2009, 07:35 AM

The selectmen in Wolfeboro get health insurance too.

Kamper

11-23-2009, 07:51 AM

...ok...so I'll answer my question...... ...

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Are you for or against proper insurance for municipal employees? My boss thanks ME for my efforts when I get my check. Only a rat of an employer would fail to arrange some type of health insurance for employees who work a significant number of hours.

Are you for or against that fire truck? The new fire station?

I'm losing track of your positions due to jumping around on the various topics you've introduced in this thread, plus the opinions and counter-opinions you've expressed not only on other members' but on your own previous posts here. Would you be so kind as to say "I am for/against this." so all readers know what you are trying to say?

Thank you in advance for your consideration!

SIKSUKR

11-23-2009, 09:18 AM

This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.

This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.
This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.
This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.
This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.
This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.
This reminds me of the kid that won't quit poking you in the same spot.
Boy that spot is sore.:emb::(

fatlazyless

11-23-2009, 09:19 AM

Are you for or against that fire truck?

Here's one for people to consider. While high tax Vermont makes do with a second hand, 20 year old, $20,000 ladder truck purchased from Laconia, low tax Laconia purchases a new $850,000 ladder truck.

So, what does this tell you?

So, who is really low tax, and who is really high tax: Vermont or New Hampshire?

Kamper

11-23-2009, 09:52 AM

... (Evasion, evasion, evasion) ...

Yeah. That's what I thought you'd say.

Have a nice day!

jmen24

11-23-2009, 10:08 AM

FLL, I will tell you what I know from my wife, who although was born in Maine, spend her school life in Vermont and transfered to a NH school in high school. That even though Vermont does have higher taxes, they put a considerable margin of those tax dollars into their school systems. Their schools are far superior to what is offered at most schools in NH that are twice the size of the ones in VT.

When she transfered into her final school in NH she had enough credits to graduate a year early without having to double up on courses.

FLL, does this town in VT have a name so that we can compare the population base against Laconia, not that it matters, but it might enlighten you on how they choose to spend their dollars.

4 for Boating

11-23-2009, 11:16 AM

Just to toss my two cents in and to make my position clear on the truck, if the fire or police departments need something then I’m all for it if done in a proper purchasing/bid manner. Having said that and given the fact that Meredith may have needed these things in order to assure the people that help protect and respond to the community are in the best position to help, can someone tell me why given the need for these expensive purchases (New Police Station/Re-Furbished Fire Station/New Fire Truck >> Totaling over $4.5M In town floated bonds) would we need to have an additional $3.5M community center?

Don’t get me wrong, it is certainly nice to have but with all the other necessary expenses and a rising tax rate, why would a fiscally responsible team approve/proceed with this?

Argie's Wife

11-23-2009, 11:28 AM

Attached to this post is the 2008 tax burden by state.

VT is 8th and NH is 46th on the list for tax burden.

VT is 22nd and NH is 10th on the list for income per capita.

FLL - you're welcome to explore the cost per pupil, social programs, and other expenditures that VT has vs. what NH spends on. They raise more money and spend more money, is the short of it. Perhaps the $20K engine was purchased because it wasn't well planned for, but that's just an assumption... ;)

NoRegrets

11-23-2009, 11:49 AM

The tax burden for each state can be found in the attached chart. Vermont ranked 7th highest, Mass was # 8 and New Hampshire is # 47. I like the fact that NH has a small government and support keeping limits on it. The converse is poor Massachusets. The are # 8 and trying to be #1. I believe that is why now support so many refugees from the south.
Even if some of the facts seem suspect I do enjoy FLL's postings as they challenge us to read and research.
750 K does seem like a lot of money for a truck. I am not qualified to judge the ROI but I do hope that it is never used for it's intended purpose.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_tot_tax_bur-total-tax-burden-per-capita

ITD

11-23-2009, 02:54 PM

Oh Less is just stirring it up again.

Anyone who knows of a truck driving job for Less, please PM it to him, he needs something else to do with his time.

gtagrip

11-23-2009, 03:05 PM

Oh Less is just stirring it up again.

Anyone who knows of a truck driving job for Less, please PM it to him, he needs something else to do with his time.

Just remember, push ups are probably not a job requirement.:laugh:

Yosemite Sam

11-23-2009, 03:47 PM

Does this make you happy now FLL?

twoplustwo

11-24-2009, 05:49 AM

Yosemite Sam, that required a beverage disclaimer! I just spit coffee all over my keyboard:laugh:

fatlazyless

11-24-2009, 08:20 AM

Let's not be ridiculous....that old fire truck looks like it is a 1930's truck.

If you simply enter 'craigslist fire truck' into google, you come up with a truck full of different possibilities.

Down on the Island of Dominica, home to the Dominican Republic and to Haiti, believe they use white Dodge dualie pickup trucks equipped with ladder rack, ladder, hose, pump, water tank and firefighters.

Necessity is the mother of invention. When all they have to spend is $15,000. they figure out what works and go with a used pickup truck and used firefighting equipment. Besides, it is the firefighters and not the truck that fights the fire.

So, did Meredith purchase a new $750,000 aerial tower truck only to have it be damaged in the first week due to operator error? The most expensive fire truck in the world is useless without firefighters who know what they are doing, and are motivated to do it.

twoplustwo

11-24-2009, 10:14 AM

So, did Meredith purchase a new $750,000 aerial tower truck only to have it be damaged in the first week due to operator error? The most expensive fire truck in the world is useless without firefighters who know what they are doing, and are motivated to do it.

It's one thing to question budgets, it's another thing entirely to question the Meredith FD's motivation to do the job right. They save lives on a daily basis. Your contribution to society is what? You've gone from annoying to downright rude with that one sentence.

Accidents happen.

brk-lnt

11-24-2009, 10:24 AM

Yosemite Sam

11-24-2009, 03:56 PM

Let's not be ridiculous....that old fire truck looks like it is a 1930's truck.

But FLL, you said: "Besides, it is the firefighters and not the truck that fights the fire."

So, as you can see, that 1930's truck won't be figting any fires anytime soon. Therefore it should do the job. ;)

Seeker

11-24-2009, 05:27 PM

Time to end this thread!?

I'll second that one!

Kamper

11-24-2009, 06:19 PM

... Down on the Island of Dominica, home to the Dominican Republic and to Haiti, .. .

The Dominican Republic and Haiti share the island of Hispaniola.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispaniola

The Commonwealth of Dominica is on the island of Dominique, sometimes referred to as Dominica.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominica

Can you advise us what their equipment has to do with what Meredith's purchases, or our dental health here in NH?

RI Swamp Yankee

11-24-2009, 09:39 PM

Don't feed the trolls... They may need dental work if they get too much sugar... :rolleye2:

brk-lnt

11-24-2009, 09:52 PM

They may need dental work if they get too much sugar... :rolleye2:

Maybe as a training exercise the Meredith FD can take that new truck and give someone a hosing down...

Yosemite Sam

11-27-2009, 11:38 AM

OK FLL, you have got to give the governmental officials in Laconia credit for figuring out how to use their brand new Fire Truck.
Below is what the Laconia Daily Sun (http://www.laconiadailysun.com/LaconiaPDF/2009/11/27L.pdf)said about their ingenuity: ;)

"In recent years, it has been impossible to string the lights much more than two-thirds of the way up the tree. That problem was solved by the Laconia Fire Department’s new ladder truck. With its 100-foot vertical and 93-foot horizontal reaches, it was possible to string the festive white lights from the very top of the 85-foot ever-green. Quite incidentally, the exact height of the tree was determined using the GPS device in the bucket of Ladder 1."

BroadHopper

11-27-2009, 01:24 PM

This is a pretty expensive 'cherry picker' to be hanging lights! I had to pay PSNH to hang the Christmas lights on the neighborhood tree! :(

Kamper

11-27-2009, 04:29 PM

Awsome! Value added. :laugh:

NoBozo

11-27-2009, 07:32 PM

On the job training. Every time they use the truck they will become more proficient. AND...in this case..they get something done which is constructive. Better to learn when not under pressure. :) NB

Seeker

11-27-2009, 07:56 PM

Don't tell FLL they plugged the extension cord into his house.

Yosemite Sam

11-27-2009, 08:27 PM

On the job training. Every time they use the truck they will become more proficient. AND...in this case..they get something done which is constructive. Better to learn when not under pressure. :) NB

Exactly, then when a bulb goes out at the top of the tree the new $750,000 fire truck will be ready go to the rescue. Not every town in NH can say they are able to change Christmas tree bulbs 100 ft high from the ground.
You really gotta love Yankee ingenuity. :)

fatlazyless

11-30-2009, 10:11 PM

Meredith ladder truck dented but no serious damage done

MEREDITH - The Fire Department's new ladder truck was damaged when it was backed into one of the bollards (posts) astride the doors of the apparatus bay of the new stationhouse on November 11.

Selectman Chuck Palm, the former fire chief, said Friday that the extent of the damage was limited to dents in the rear bumper and rear quarter panel. "The damage had no affect on the operation of the truck," he said. The truck he stressed was fully insured and arrangements for its repair have been made.

The town purchased the new truck, which was commissioned on November 5, for $760,000.

Laconia Daily Sun, Nov 30
.......
Surprize Pop Quiz

1. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Laconia firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb?

2. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Meredith firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb?

3. If the Lakes Region Mutual Fire Aid tones out a call to replace a burnt-out Christmas tree lightbulb in New Hampton, then which neighboring fire department, Meredith or Laconia, is most likely to get to the lightbulb first, and why?

4. When the fire department arrives at the scene of the burnt out Christmas tree lightbulb, how will they detemine which specific lightbulb is burnt out?

5. The State of New Hampshire has how many different towns and cities?

6. The combined total of all the cities and towns in New Hampshire have a total of how many different 100' aerial tower trucks?

7. While the State of NH purchases fire trucks on a town by town, have money, basis: Which nearby new england state purchases fire trucks on a regional basis and why?

8. When it is your house that is burning, do you hope a fire truck will show up quickly and put the fire out?

9. Or, do you hope that the fire will continue to burn so your house will be considered a total loss by your insurance company?

10. Would you encourage your local Laconia or Meredith Fire Dept to adopt a dalmation firehouse dog?

11. (special bonus question) How about a beer guzzl'n basset hound, that likes Pabst Blue Ribbon, for a firehouse buddy........aaaarrrrrrrroooooo........!

Happy Gourmand

12-01-2009, 08:04 AM

You are like a dog who bites you in the ass and won't let go....
I have to say that I usually get a chuckle out of many of your comments, but I also have to say that I find that many of your references regarding the new ladder truck to be misinformed, condescending and downright disrespectful. I think it's time for you to throw the towel in on this issue. The ladder truck is in place and there is nothing constructive that you can do about it. Your rants are becoming obnoxious.

twoplustwo

12-01-2009, 01:48 PM

Thank you, Phantom. I couldn't agree more.

Janet

12-01-2009, 05:39 PM

I totally agree!

fatlazyless

12-01-2009, 07:40 PM

....okey-dokey....methinks I get the message......think I will go slink off to that NH Animal Rescue League for Meredith on the Centre Meredith Rd, close to Laconia, and go shop for an adopted beer guzzl'n basset hound for a new buddy. You know, we'll be able to cry in our beer together.....misery luvs company...... :rolleye1:

Isn't caring for a dog what seems to work at rehabilitat'n long term inmates in some of the prisons?

& aarrrrooooo's to you, too!......................:):D:laugh::D:)

Pineedles

12-01-2009, 07:46 PM

You are an amazing soul!

RI Swamp Yankee

12-02-2009, 08:36 PM

Don't feed the trolls...
.... if only ........ :rolleye1:

trfour

12-02-2009, 09:32 PM

to be nice, or otherwise!... 'Tis the time of year to celebrate and be thankful for all that we enjoy as a great family here with! Seems to me that it would and include the les fortunate.

Count Your Many Blessings Folks, Life as we know it passes too swiftly, even here at www.winnipesaukee.com (http://www.winnipesaukee.com) . Lets keep it on the Britte side, and join in, be a positive part of, join a local community function, Club or other moving forward entity!

Embrace and enjoy while we can!

trfour

12-04-2009, 08:19 PM

Firefighters armed with safety item they hope they never have to use.

http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091203/GJNEWS02/712039631/0/CITIZEN

Yosemite Sam

12-15-2009, 11:45 AM

Time to pay for the new fire truck. (http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091215/GJNEWS02/712159900/-1/CITNEWS)

"Tuesday, December 15, 2009
MEREDITH — The town's tax rate has been set at $12.54 per $1,000 of assessed valuation, Town Manager Phil Warren reported Monday. The new rate represents an increase of $1.08 — or 9.4 percent — over 2008.

While the town rate has increased from $3.97 in 2008 to $4.23 in 2009, "the goal of the Board of Selectmen to raise no more funds from local taxation from current levels has been met — the increase in the rate is a function of declining real estate values, not an increase in local taxation," said Warren.

Tax bills are due to be mailed Wednesday, and payment is due by Jan. 18. "