Real Estate

[secondcurve]

What do folks think about the real estate market? Is it time to trade-up? Do we have further to fall? It seems like activity has been incredibly slow this summer. Any input would be appreciated.

[BroadHopper]

Good time to trade up. Even though you are selling low, you are buying low. Interest rates are low as well.

Only trouble is selling. Lots of homes for sale and it is a buyer's market.

[Resident 2B]

I believe it is a good time to move up because the cost of money, the mortgage interest rate, is unusually low.

We are considering selling our place on the lake :eek: and putting the house we still own in Mass. :( back on the market. If they both sell, an oceanfront or near oceanfront home in Southern NH would be our next step.

We had our place in Mass. on the market 16 months ago, but took it off after 6 months due to the very slow market back then. I believe the New England housing market is near the bottom and starting to get more active. I do not think the prices are going to move upward very soon though.

When you are both selling and buying, what you lose on one end of the transaction, you gain on the other. You have to sell before you buy to make the most of the opportunity. The interest rate becomes most important and there are great rates out there right now.

R2B

[Airwaves]

Secondcurve, define trade up, what do you have now? If it fits the bill I might be interested. PM me if you'd like.

[jmen24]

I guess we are not looking at the same locations, but the market in most areas we frequent has not gone down at all. The houses that were on the market for the past three years are still listed within 25-50K of there original asking price. The national and state median home sales number has come down but the bottom of the market is lower than it was two years ago and that has to do with the foreclosures on the market. Most of these homes are still way over priced at 100K and needing to be completly gutted in order to make anything out of them.

The home directly accross the street from me just went up two weeks ago for 300K and that is what they called a "fire-sale price". I would not give them 250K for it, its a nice home, but has no land and sits right on top of the road, no privacy.

I play golf with some of the local realtors in town here and they seem to feel the same way, the only thing that is going for the buyer is they can throw out a low ball and they do not have 10 other people jumping at the chance to go over them. That and the rates are nice and low.

Some thoughts on this from others perspectives would be nice as I have not come accross very many realtors in this area that feel the market is down at all just a lower bottom. The towns of note that I mentioned about above. Loudon, Salisbury, Andover, New London, Wilmot, Sutton, Sunapee, Newbury, Springfield, Concord. Obviosly some areas are way down next to these towns, but the valuations in those communities have always been lower.

Just as a side note, I do not expect prices to go lower, if you are interested there is plenty to look at, but I do not feel that the pricing has come down as far as it has gone up to match historical increases in property market values, homes are still overpriced for what they are.

[LadyJane]

I believe it is a good time to buy, for the reasons already stated. Yes, prices have dropped nation wide, but not evenly. In some areas the prices have gone down dramatically, like parts of Florida, and in other areas they have not fallen as much, or not at all. I was told by a realtor that properties in desirable areas hold their value moreso, and certainly the Lakes Region is a desirable area. That's why I can't stay away from it for too long and would love to live there !!!

[codeman671]

According to the agent I am dealing with in the seacoast area, properties are definitely beginning to move, up to a certain price range. For instance in the last year there has only been nothing sold in the $700k+ range in Dover according to the sold properties search on nneren. Most properties moving are the low to mid tier stuff.

We are on the market in Gilford, as soon as our place on the island sells we are going to list our Dover home and pick up something waterfront down here. The overall hastle of owning/maintaining two homes, multiple boats, 2 kids (and a 3rd on the way), 4 dogs, and trying to run a company is getting to be a bit too much. For us, upgrading to one large waterfront property down here just makes sense.

[VtSteve]

If you didn't buy at the peak, and not much was for sale during the peak in your particular area, it was pretty hard to notice. I saw one waterfront property over here go from $895 list all the way down to $695k. I think it's back up now. If you didn't notice the $200k drop, it didn't happen :D At least that's the way many realtors dealt with it.

From a cursory review when I was there in August, I saw some prices in the Meredith area that were lower than what I was familiar with. But you have to track neighborhood addresses to really get a feeling, median prices mean nothing.

Too bad real estate taxes didn't follow suit :rolleye1:

[gf2020]

New guy chiming in here.

The Winnipesaukee market is really just a delayed reflection of the Greater Boston and Southern New England market, which is where the vast majority of the buyers come from. As the economy continues to improve in those regions, an upswing will occur in resort area property as well.

I started looking at land for sale in the Meredith area earlier this summer. I can't afford waterfront but I would like to be in a neighborhood that has common waterfront access or at the very least decent proximity to public access. The parcels that I am considering here (and in the Bridgton, Maine area too) are definitely priced less than similar parcels sold for as recently as 2 years ago.

What's interesting to me as a potential buyer is that there is not a lot of rhyme or reason to what drives the asking price for some of these pieces of land. It's like the seller and their realtor just made something up to see if it would fly. I guess if they figure that nothing is selling anyways and they don't really need to sell, then what do they have to lose. I'm talking about some lots that have been on the market for over a year with no or very little price adjustment.

I have done my homework and the lots that I am interested in are owned by people who have owned them for several years. Even at today's lower prices they are still making money over their original investment.

Now if my wife and I could just make up our minds what we want to do!

[Sue Doe-Nym]

New guy chiming in here.

The Winnipesaukee market is really just a delayed reflection of the Greater Boston and Southern New England market, which is where the vast majority of the buyers come from. As the economy continues to improve in those regions, an upswing will occur in resort area property as well.

I started looking at land for sale in the Meredith area earlier this summer. I can't afford waterfront but I would like to be in a neighborhood that has common waterfront access or at the very least decent proximity to public access. The parcels that I am considering here (and in the Bridgton, Maine area too) are definitely priced less than similar parcels sold for as recently as 2 years ago.

What's interesting to me as a potential buyer is that there is not a lot of rhyme or reason to what drives the asking price for some of these pieces of land. It's like the seller and their realtor just made something up to see if it would fly. I guess if they figure that nothing is selling anyways and they don't really need to sell, then what do they have to lose. I'm talking about some lots that have been on the market for over a year with no or very little price adjustment.

I have done my homework and the lots that I am interested in are owned by people who have owned them for several years. Even at today's lower prices they are still making money over their original investment.

Now if my wife and I could just make up our minds what we want to do!


You are absolutely correct about the huge discrepancies regarding asking prices. There are owners (and realtors willing to go along with them) who want to believe that the marketplace has returned to the inflated levels of 2006. This is obviously not the case and results in almost a two tier market - those who don't have to sell and price their properties unrealistically versus those sellers who are truly interested in selling and price their properties in line with present conditions.

This situation causes people, including realtors, to misinterpret the present increse in inventory. Yes, there has been an increase but it is not as huge as people think if you back out the newly listed properties that are ridiculously overpriced.

Good luck on your search, hopefully your patience and thoroughness will be rewarded.

[VtSteve]

Absolutely correct GF. Some communities have touted their asking prices as examples of how their communities have retained their values. But as you point out, listing a property that won't sell at those prices is not proof of anything, except no buyer.

In areas where prices stay higher and don't change, this can be more reflective of owners that aren't so over-leveraged that they have to sell. Obviously, some areas attracted a higher percentage of speculators and second, or even third home buyers. Those area have many sellers that need to sell.

I recently witnessed a Florida property that sold at "auction", for $100. The buyer was the bank holding the paper :laugh: I can only think the auction occurred when the banker closed his office door, submitted the bid to himself, and won :D

[LadyJane]

[QUOTE=gf2020;107463]New guy chiming in here.


IWhat's interesting to me as a potential buyer is that there is not a lot of rhyme or reason to what drives the asking price for some of these pieces of land. It's like the seller and their realtor just made something up to see if it would fly. I guess if they figure that nothing is selling anyways and they don't really need to sell, then what do they have to lose. I'm talking about some lots that have been on the market for over a year with no or very little price adjustment.

I agree with your observations. I shopped for land in the Meredith, Center Harbor area for two years. I learned a lot. I made a STRONG offer on one lot that had deeded access to water, and the owner did not accept it, and did not counter offer either. A year later, it was still on the market. Funny...I ended up buying a piece of land in Sandwich. I wasn't even looking there initially but fell in love with the town. Good luck with your search. It's fun looking !!

[BGB2]

Home prices, construction and even the size of new dwelling appear to have bottomed out in CT.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

To add a real world example, we listed our house for sale last Saturday. Yesterday, we accepted an offer at about 95% of our listing price. I certainly didn't expect it to sell that quickly and was prepared for 3 - 4 months of carrying costs. So, my observation is that if a property is priced right, it will sell.

[escaped from NJ]

gf2020, have you considered island property rather than land in Meridith?
We also were initially going to look for land once we realized we couldn't afford (or didn't want what we could afford) on the mainland. One day we just decided we had nothing to lose by looking on the islands and we are so glad we made that decision. We bought an island cottage 5 years ago and it was the best thing we've ever done. It was the only way we could afford property on water. The only negative to me is that we have to wait for a good thick ice to visit in the winter but since we live 4 hours away, we don't come up much in the winter anyway. I don't know how island properties have held value in comparison to mainland properties. Maybe some other member could comment.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Home prices, construction and even the size of new dwelling appear to have bottomed out in CT.
"Bottomed out" ..... groan .... :laugh:

[gf2020]

gf2020, have you considered island property rather than land in Meridith?


Thanks for the input. I don't think an island would work for us. My wife requires a bit more "civilization" (quick access to Dunkin Donuts, grocery store, etc.) and we are looking to develop a modest home for 4 season use. My soon to be teenage twin sons have visions of snowmobiling, ATVing, etc. in addition to fishing, boating and watersports in the summer and skiing and snowboarding in the winter.

[codeman671]

Thanks for the input. I don't think an island would work for us. My wife requires a bit more "civilization" (quick access to Dunkin Donuts, grocery store, etc.) and we are looking to develop a modest home for 4 season use. My soon to be teenage twin sons have visions of snowmobiling, ATVing, etc. in addition to fishing, boating and watersports in the summer and skiing and snowboarding in the winter.

We thought the same thing until we tried island living. If you are looking to move up for year round use then an island is not for you, unless you use a hovercraft or airboat (lots of fun!). For summer use the adventure of island life can't be beat.

[mcdude]

From the Laconia Daily Sun (10/23)

Lakes Region Real Estate Market Report / Roy Sanborn
Winnipesaukee & Winnisquam
3rd quarter waterfront sales report

It is great to report that the waterfront sales
on Lake Winnipesaukee and Lake Winnisquam
seem to have held their own over the summer
season despite a downturned economy and general
reluctance on the part of everyone to buy just
about anything. Astute buyers still recognize that
waterfront properties are a great place to invest
their money. Unlike the stock market and other
investment opportunities, buying a waterfront is
a tangible, secure investment right now and is
something that can really be enjoyed.

In the 3rd quarter of 2009 there were 26 sales
on Winnipesaukee (including island properties) at
an average price of $1,076,621. There were seven
homes sold at over $1-million with the highest
sale being the property at 55 Broadview Terrace
in Gilford that changed hands for a mere $6.5-million.
This is a 11,464 square foot, 6 bedroom, 8
bath home constructed in 2005 sitting on a 1.59-
acre lot with 270 feet of frontage. Obviously, this is
a fantastic home with all the amenities and quality
one would expect at that price.

Year to date, there have been 55 waterfront
transactions on the big lake at an average price of
$960,961 with a total sales volume of $52.85-million.
That represents about 40-percent of the total
sales volume for all the residential properties in
the towns that share the waterfront on Winnipesaukee.
So how does that compare to last year? In
2008 there were 53 waterfront transactions over
the same time period with an average price of
$1,314,639 and a total sales volume of $69.68-million.
That sales volume represented about 39-percent
of the total sales volume for the same period
last year. Pretty consistent.

Sales on Lake Winnisquam got off to a real slow
start in the first six months of the year with only
two sales. However, in the 3rd quarter there were
nine transactions at an average of $529,667 and
a total volume of almost $4.8-million. The highest
sale was at 87 Collins Brook Rd at $740,000
for a 4,572 square foot, 14 room, 6 bedroom home,
with 170 feet of frontage. The 11 transactions year
to date on Lake Winnisquam came in at an average
price of $495,409. That average is down from
the $620,250 average posted in 2008 but the total
sales are up from eight sales in the first three
quarters of 2008.

As with the residential market in general, the
average prices on waterfront properties are down
a bit signaling that there are some good deals out
there for those buyers looking for their slice of the
Lakes Region waterfront pie. Currently there are
27 properties available on Winnisquam ranging
from $275,000 to just under $2-million.

On Winnipesaukee there are over 130 properties available
where you can spend as little as $200,000 for
an island property and just under $400,000 for a
mainland direct waterfront access. So if you are
looking for a waterfront retreat now is the time. I’d
be happy to help, especially if you want to match
that $6.5-million sale last month!

Log on to my blog at www.lakesregionrealestatenews.
com and leave me your thoughts on this
report or the real estate market in general. Roy
Sanborn is a REALTOR® for Roche Realty Group,
at 97 Daniel Webster Highway in Meredith and
can be reached at 677-8420.

[fatlazyless]

From McDude's above post we learn that:


"Year to date there have been 55 waterfront transactions on the big lake at an average price of $960,961 with a total sales volume of $52.85 million."


"In 2008 there were 53 waterfront transactions over the same time period with an average price of $1,314,639 and a total sales volume of 69.68 million."

......

What this says to me.

The selling price of the average waterfront home went from $1,314,639 to 960,961 when comparing 2008 to 2009. That is a drop of 353,678, which is 27-percent.

So, it just seems to me that the only way the waterfront could have taken a faster one year plunge would be in a submarine! WOW,,,,talk about sales prices falling off a cliff and going under....Attention everyone on board....Attention....Attention....Prepare to SUBMERGE......hold your breath and pinch your nose closed!......the price average has gone down a whopper 27-percent in the last calender year.....omg :eek: ........... -27% !


-27%, -27%, -27%, -27%, -27%, -27%


:banana::eek::banana::eek::banana::eek::banana:

[Long Pine]

What this says to me.

The selling price of the average waterfront home went from $1,314,639 to 960,961 when comparing 2008 to 2009. That is a drop of 353,678, which is 27-percent.

So, it just seems to me that the only way the waterfront could have taken a faster one year plunge would be in a submarine! WOW,,,,talk about sales prices falling off a cliff and going under....Attention everyone on board....Attention....Attention....Prepare to SUBMERGE......hold your breath and pinch your nose closed!......the price average has gone down a whopper 27-percent in the last calender year.....omg ........... -27% !

I just wanted to point out that you should not necessarily infer from this that the average value of a lakefront home on Winnipesaukee has dropped 27%. It just says that the average price of the homes that sold in 2009 was 27% less than the average price of the homes that sold in 2008. It could be that the multi-million dollar homes that would have moved the average up just did not change hands in 2009, or that the people that needed to sell their homes for economic reasons were more in the $1 mil price range than the $2-5 mil price range. Lots of room for interpretation but just comparing the average price of the homes that actually sold from one year to the next can be misleading and is not necessarily representative of how the average market value of all the lakefront homes moved in the last year.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

In terms that you can appreciate.
Yesterday IBM sold for 120. Today MSFT sold for 28. Does that mean that stocks took a huge drop?

If comparable properties sold for 27% less this year than last year that would be a fair statement. The fact that less expensive transactions took place is not conclusive data. Does it mean that expensive properties did not sell or that expensive properties sold for a lot less?

[Pineedles]

I also have a correction to make. When you refer to the post above, some of us put the most recent posts on top rather than display them from oldest on top to newest lower. It makes it easier to go to the next thread or section, since you are already near or at the top.:D

[Mike M.]

What do folks think about the real estate market? Is it time to trade-up? Do we have further to fall? It seems like activity has been incredibly slow this summer. Any input would be appreciated.

I think home prices have a long way to fall.

Unemployment is on the rise which is going to result in more home owners not being able to pay their mortgage. The additional foreclosed homes will result in lower home prices.

The only way we will see home prices start to increases before we get back to a more free market economy will be inflation. This does not mean that housing is once again a good investment; it will be the result of our money losing its buying power.

[fatlazyless]

"There are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics." unknown author, circa 1850


"The famous statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their position." Wikipedia

.....

You all have to agree that a 27-percent, one year drop in the waterfront average selling price based on 55 different sales between January 1 and September 30, 2009 is certainly a statistic to contemplate. Like, why-O-why did this happen?

Let me pitch out a grease ball of a reason here.......well,,,,shazam - a - ramarama :D! .....you know that January 1, 2009 was the first day of the Winnipesaukee 45-25 speed limits....therefore....it is absolutely-positively-absolutely an undisputed fact this 27-percent price decrease is all about the nice folks with the big, expensive go-fast boats wanting to unload their waterfront homes and move away, somewhere to a new Lake Go-Fast.:D ....case closed!

[JupiterMackem]

If I'm not mistaken the 'three types of lies' quote comes from the British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli. It's a particular favorite of mine.

[VtSteve]

One of the reasons the Case-Shiller real estate index was so valuable during this tremendous real-estate bubble was that it sought to compare sales of the same property. It has proved far more reliable that the stats compiled based on median price, average selling price, etc..

Averaging a small sample of just over 50 sales is meaningless without the underlying data, and probably meaningless even then. If you had two properties that sold for $1.3 million in 2005 or 2006, and were sold for less than $1 million this year, that's pretty conclusive. Having properties that go from $200,000 to over a million means nothing, especially if a third or more of the properties are towards the high end.

I'll just guess that if anyone investigated some of the properties sold, which you can do if you have the address, you could find out what the previous buyer paid. Some realtors around here were trying to paint the impression that the real estate market was stable, and hadn't declined much. A simple search turned up a property bought in 2005 for $469,000, that is now listed at $379,000.

[Kerk]

I know the prices are down and have held off on selling but I feel that will change. I will be selling one way or another. Costs -Health etc. are helping decision - Life!!

[fatlazyless]

From today's www.citizen.com, the state DRA, Department of Revenue Administration, has certified the Gilford property tax rate at $17.37/1000 assessed value.

While the town's overall gross valuation has decreased in value by $29,655,710, which is a 1.9% drop, the new rate of 17.37 is an increase of 2.8%.

And just think about this: Gilford is an SB-2 town so the expensive new building construction decisions like a police station are decided on March town election day, private paper ballots with the polls open from 7am to 7pm as opposed to the town employee dominated, midnight, raise-your-hand votes, held at the March town meeting.

While the social security checks will not, for the first time ever, be going up this year, your individual Gilford property tax will be doing what?:rolleye1:

So, here in the New Hampshire lakes region, are you better off owning or better off renting?

[BroadHopper]

So, here in the New Hampshire lakes region, are you better off owning or better off renting?

Better off camping out on the Walmart parking lot! :emb:

[Merrymeeting]

Better off camping out on the Walmart parking lot! :emb:

speaking of which... Les, will we see you on here :laugh: www.peopleofwalmart.com (http://www.peopleofwalmart.com)

[fatlazyless]

Had the opportunity to go to a bank mortgage foreclosure auction of a one bed, 625 sq' condo, w/ obscured ski mountain view in a NH ski area today.
.....................

Just the facts:

Mortgage loan, 2005, for $85,000.

Currently assessed by town for 102,000.

Auction bids started at 20,000. and final bid topped out at 45,000.

The auctioneer then announces that the mortgage lender, a Massachusetts savings & loan, has a reserve minimum bid of $87,500.

The end....no sale.....no tranfer of property....nada.

One of the bidders, a local real estate broker, she said after the auction that the units' current selling price would most likely be in the 60's in today's market, and a couple-three units had sold for $120 - 125,000, back in 2007.

.............
How about that...I thought that was pretty interesting. So, what does the mortgage lender who continues to own the property do next? ....wait for the market to improve.....relist with a different auctioneer.....or lower the reserve minimum price ....or something........like what.....what.....what?

What happens next?

About ten other similar units in the same area are currently for sale, although not as foreclosures, with asking prices from $75-80,000. and have been listed for months and years.

[ITD]

....

Let me pitch out a grease ball of a reason here.......well,,,,shazam - a - ramarama :D! .....you know that January 1, 2009 was the first day of the Winnipesaukee 45-25 speed limits....therefore....it is absolutely-positively-absolutely an undisputed fact this 27-percent price decrease is all about the nice folks with the big, expensive go-fast boats wanting to unload their waterfront homes and move away, somewhere to a new Lake Go-Fast.:D ....case closed!


I declare the science is settled, anyone who thinks not is a denier, good job Less. :D

[laketrout]

You would think the auction company would tell people right off the bat that there is a minimum reserve price so not to waste peoples time. Most likely the bank will put that condo at auction back into the MLS listings at a given price and typically in the notes you will see "subject to 3rd party approval". Which to me is a green light to low ball the asking price which might be up in the 80-100k range as you noted of the previous properties went for and or are listing for. Local or regional banks that are smaller tend to hold onto properties; hoping to recoup lost monies, larger national/federal banks tend to dump when they have so many properties to contend with.

[fatlazyless]

...the bank was the Scituate S & L...., and the auctioneer just breezed right through the auction procedure quickly.....reading from a written text and recording the entire verbal proceding as he and the qualified bidders went through the transaction...

The auctioneer speaks for about five minutes or less, introducing the auction and with regard that the sale is in "as is condition....and to be aware of any outstanding, unknown liens which are your responsibilty." Auctioneer makes a point of informing the room that collusion between bidders is illegal, and that any collusion will be prosecuted by the auction house to the full extent of the law.

Proceeding ahead, the auctioneer starts off by asking anyone want to bid 100k......80k.......60k....40k....20k....bidders looking around at one another.....and he got a starter bid at 20k.....in one minute or less....it goes up to 45k....and no one counters...so 45k is the high bid....and as I already mentioned...he then announces that the bank has a reserve minimum bid in at $87,500.

Could be the real estate broker, she was there to try to buy it low, or else get it as a listing, herself.

[Rag Top Daze]

...the bank was the Scituate S & L...., and the auctioneer just breezed right through the auction procedure quickly.....reading from a written text and recording the entire verbal proceding as he and the qualified bidders went through the transaction...

The auctioneer speaks for about five minutes or less, introducing the auction and with regard that the sale is in "as is condition....and to be aware of any outstanding, unknown liens which are your responsibilty." Auctioneer makes a point of informing the room that collusion between bidders is illegal, and that any collusion will be prosecuted by the auction house to the full extent of the law.

Proceeding ahead, the auctioneer starts off by asking anyone want to bid 100k......80k.......60k....40k....20k....bidders looking around at one another.....and he got a starter bid at 20k.....in one minute or less....it goes up to 45k....and no one counters...so 45k is the high bid....and as I already mentioned...he then announces that the bank has a reserve minimum bid in at $87,500.

Could be the real estate broker, she was there to try to buy it low, or else get it as a listing, herself.

Earlier this year we went to several auctions. We stopped going tho when we found out this was the way they all were going. It's a waste of time.

We have also found out that when you see a bank owned property listed at a reasonable price for today's market, it's just another game they are playing. When you go to look at it, you find out they are accepting multiple bids. A silent auction sort of plan. We refuse to play that game too.

I can't imagine why the banks are interested in holding onto these properties.

[jmen24]

Earlier this year we went to several auctions. We stopped going tho when we found out this was the way they all were going. It's a waste of time.

We have also found out that when you see a bank owned property listed at a reasonable price for today's market, it's just another game they are playing. When you go to look at it, you find out they are accepting multiple bids. A silent auction sort of plan. We refuse to play that game too.

I can't imagine why the banks are interested in holding onto these properties.

The reason they hold on to the properties is because it shows a Capital Loss on the books. A Capital Loss can be applied directly to the tax portion of a Capital Gain. It all has to do with liabilities. If they sell the house, great. If they do not sell the house, great. They make out in both situations, because they are holding or selling a house well below the money invested, its a loss either way and can be used to offset the Capital Gains Tax either way. That is how you can still show a profit even though you are holding a huge loss, not only are you lowering your tax burden, but that money then becomes profit along side the Capital Gain for the year or quarter.

SEE MY POST BELOW THIS INFORMATION IS ONLY PARTIALLY CORRECT

[neckdweller]

The reason they hold on to the properties is because it shows a Capital Loss on the books. A Capital Loss can be applied directly to the tax portion of a Capital Gain. It all has to do with liabilities. If they sell the house, great. If they do not sell the house, great. They make out in both situations, because they are holding or selling a house well below the money invested, its a loss either way and can be used to offset the Capital Gains Tax either way. That is how you can still show a profit even though you are holding a huge loss, not only are you lowering your tax burden, but that money then becomes profit along side the Capital Gain for the year or quarter.

How can the bank lock in a capital loss if they haven't sold yet? Isn't it similar to an individual - I have to sell a stock below what I paid to offset any capital gains. They may be able to book a reserve for bad debt expense equal to the difference between the mortgage note and the current market value of the property, but I don't see how they can record a capital loss.

I really don't know much about how the books work for banks so if you can further explain that would be great.

[jmen24]

You are correct, I did a quick check as you made me think, the sale has to be made in order to show the loss. The reason for holding a default mortgage is that they can stem the time to apply that loss on the books. That is the reason for not being in a big rush to off load these homes.

I guess I should elaborate a little bit. I made a quick call to a friend in the know to clear this up and that is where the response above came from (I am learning more everyday!).
The difference is really in how the bank is held, a large publicly held bank is not interested in taking a quick loss on an asset as it lowers their overall value in the market and you would not want to invest in a company that is taking a big loss, quarter after quarter.
A smaller privately held bank is more interested in reducing exposure to stay in business, and the loss helps them reduce the tax burden.

If you subscribe to the Registry Review you get a listing every week of the current foreclosure auctions scheduled, you also get the name of the person that defaulted as well as the name of the bank that is holding the note. The auctions held by small local banks are more likely to yield a better deal than the ones held by larger banks, but this is also leading small banks down a bad road, with little they can do about it.

But one thing to remember is that you are not going to get a property in a foreclosure auction for a huge discount if the property has any kind of potential value above what is owed. Most of the deep discount properties are complete headcases. We have looked at homes for clients in the last few months that they were looking to purchase through foreclosure, one still had the old school way of insulating the floor (newspaper laid in layers under a rug) because it did not have a single source of heat, other than a centrally located fireplace in the losest level (200 yr old home) or any insulation in the walls.

[neckdweller]

OK, that makes a lot more sense. Agreed on the point of not getting a huge bargain on any foreclosure properties. Banks aren't going to let a property go for much less than either the mortgage value or the market value - either way, it won't be a major deal for a third party buyer.

[Just Sold]

If you subscribe to the Registry Review you get a listing every week of the current foreclosure auctions scheduled, you also get the name of the person that defaulted as well as the name of the bank that is holding the note. The auctions held by small local banks are more likely to yield a better deal than the ones held by larger banks, but this is also leading small banks down a bad road, with little they can do about it.

But one thing to remember is that you are not going to get a property in a foreclosure auction for a huge discount if the property has any kind of potential value above what is owed. Most of the deep discount properties are complete headcases. We have looked at homes for clients in the last few months that they were looking to purchase through foreclosure, one still had the old school way of insulating the floor (newspaper laid in layers under a rug) because it did not have a single source of heat, other than a centrally located fireplace in the losest level (200 yr old home) or any insulation in the walls.

Great explination but remember the foreclosing bank is not going to let it sell at auction for less than they are owed. I have been to quite a few house auctions and that is what always happens. Auctions are also "buyer beware" as they warrant nothing including if taxes have been paid or if the property is vacant. If still occupied it is the buyer's responsibility to get the occupants out.

I am looking to go to another auction in Jan. The ex's 3800 sq. ft 2 year old home - oh boy! :eek:


<CENTER>http://media1.jsjauctions.com/images/4172_2.JPG</CENTER>

[Just Sold]

Condo with dock Foreclose - at The Weirs. The Courtyard on Paugus Bay. Looks like a nice place 11/9 at 9:00AM
http://www.jsjauctions.com/details.asp?id=5626

[birchhaven]

why are those units seasonal? I heard the water lines are not deep enough, is that true?

[TomC]

...but sometimes units are "seasonal" becasuse the city/town says so. When the developement is approved, it is with the stipulation that it is classified as seasonal so people can't live there full-time and burden the schools. It may be that the reason for the seasonal classification has nothing at all to do with the buildings or utilities.

This is quite common with converted cottage colonies, hotels, campgrounds, etc. I know this situation is the case with the Arcadia Campground in Moultonboro.

Again, I do not know if this is the case in this situation, but it might be the reason.

[SIKSUKR]

Tom is right on.I have friends on Paugus Bay that had a 10 unit rebuilt and the seasonal stipulation applied to that building for the reasons he listed.

[birchhaven]

that is too bad, I like those units. Seems kinda strange, in this case you would think the town would look at these units and figure they will have seasonal owners, just because of what they are. So they would let them be sold/approved as year round units to get the higher taxes, since chances are no one will live there year round any how.

[Pineedles]

So am I understanding this correctly that if the home is not suited for year round living, as in no centralized heat, no insulation, and no one lives there other than the "warmer months", a tax break is in order? How much percentage wise?

[birchhaven]

I kinda thought this went with out saying, if a house can only be used seasonally, it will not fetch as high a price in the open market as the same house that is year round, so the assessment will be lower= lower taxes. I am sure the house could have and would have been built for year round use if they had been approved for it. I didn't want to get into a taxes debate, I was just disappointed because I like those units and probably would have been in the market for one.

[Pineedles]

So it is a lower assessment that the home receives. That makes sense. Thanks.:)

[Irish mist]

I never "got" why those ten units, once rebuilt, still remained seasonal ? They look year-round to my eye.

[SIKSUKR]

I never "got" why those ten units, once rebuilt, still remained seasonal ? They look year-round to my eye.

If your refering to the condos I posted about, they are definately built to up to date standards and are more "year-round" than most structures in that area. That was the stipulation before recieving the building permit I believe.

[fatlazyless]

Every Friday the www.laconiadailysun.com runs a local real estate column written by local Realtor Roy Sanborn. Yesterday's Friday the 13th column was the best: All about the whys of why local home prices are continuing to fall. An unusually well written, thoughtfull, and lengthy article. WAY-TO-GO ROY!.....you the man!....keep on cranking em out, Buddy!

Someone out there in cyberspace....post a working link....it was on page 14. My 'puter skills are lacking.....am still using a web-tv! :D

[Greenbean]

All property (real or personal) is sold at Auction with reserve in the State of New Hampshire unless specifically advertised otherwise. If you want to go to a true auction where the high bidder takes the property then make sure it is marketed as an ABSOLUTE AUCTION. Only then can you know there is no one bidding on behalf of the seller.

It taks $20,000 to $30,000+ on average to foreclose on a home which is why Banks quite often buy the property back at auction - it saves time, notices, liens, past utilities, eviction proceedings, etc. that the bank might get stuck with. The cleaner less expensive the foreclosure the easier for the bank. They don't want to loose money so they buy the house back in at whatever they have invested in it. The more the seller has paid, the lower the price the bank has to pay to get it back.

[fatlazyless]

Noticed today a 'pending' sign hanging from the 'for sale' sign at the large wf lot with the storybook fence. It is just across Meredith Bay from the town docks so the new residents can row across the bay and walk to Georges Dinner.

What a location.....9.47 acres....assessed $3,802,100. ........a nice little boathouse.....and the fence....asking price of $4,950,000. Selling price is....a secret!

And, the new owner gets to build the house of their choice. Unless it was purchased for non-residential use like a school or religious retreat. Anything is possible with 9 1/2 acres.....right??? How about an airport for ultralites?

Will that be cash or a mortgage?

[SIKSUKR]

This is going to be the new Meredith Walmart! It's good thing they just bought that new fire truck to protect your favorite store. Word is it will even have frequent user discount dental service.

[birchhaven]

There is going to be a new Walmart in Meredith? Or am I reading that wrong? If so is it in the PB right now? Where is it going?

[fatlazyless]

Hopefully, the new owner will put up a gigundic medieval stone castle complete with a couple castle towers. That was the original plan about ten years ago and it never was started.

Believe the old owner was involved with sponsoring the 1990's go-fast motorboat races.

The boat house and fence are not your everyday construction, to say the least. Maybe a newly built house will be a similar design.

9 1/2 acres: Maybe 800'wf - just outside the Meredith no wake zone- on a point-facing west; address: 50-60 Wagon Wheel Trail, a very big & sunny, open double lot.

To build a fence like that would cost some...

And the sale price is....?

Most likely, a new residential house will go up, after tearing down the 50 year old ranch.....but one never knows......?

Could be a good spot for the new home to "DUI Rehab, Inc.".....a non-profit and tax exempt org? A place where rock stars fly in and get a month to get away before returning home, all dried out.... or something?:D

[ApS]

Some with $3M+ bucks may be reading the same financial "tea-leaves" that I am. :eek2:

(Chicken-entrail readings are beyond my job-description). ;)

Now is an especially important time to invest in land—not in a boat of any kind. In following my own advice regarding "land", I'm fully-vested in land. :)

:( (Or "broke" as FLL might say). :emb:

[SIKSUKR]

There is going to be a new Walmart in Meredith? Or am I reading that wrong? If so is it in the PB right now? Where is it going?

Sorry BH, that was a joke for longer time members as FLL is all about Wally world, dental coverage, and no new fire truck.

[mcdude]

From the Citizen

Winni waterfront entices buyers $7.8m purchase sets record

Sunday, January 17, 2010
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=5 width=250 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=250><TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=205 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=205>http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=FD&Date=20100117&Category=GJNEWS02&ArtNo=701179873&Ref=AR&MaxW=250
Courtesy photo A property on Lake Winnipesaukee, part of which is pictured, showing the stone boat house and a section of the property's 1,500 square feet of waterfront, recently sold for a record $7.8 million, continuing an upward trend of waterfront home sales despite the recession, according to Roche Realty Group Inc., which made the sale.
</B>

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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
MEREDITH — Waterfront home sales in the Lakes Region increased dramatically in the last half of 2009 and were buoyed by the highest recorded property sale on Lake Winnipesaukee to date — a $7.8 million parcel on Meredith Bay.

Frank Roche, owner of Roche Realty Inc., based in Laconia and Meredith, said high-end waterfront home sales, especially on Lake Winnipesaukee, have been gaining momentum since August, the first upward trend since the housing market crashed.

According to figures from the New England Real Estate Network, 26 properties, each worth more than $1 million, sold on Lake Winnipesaukee during all of 2009, with 20 of those sales occurring during the last half of the year.

Roche said those numbers "indicated a substantial improvement in the market."

Roche Realty made a number of those sales, including the $7.8 million, highest-on-record sale on Lake Winnipesaukee.

The sale of the 8.3-acre property with a 1,500-square-foot beach on Meredith Bay was made in November by Roche Realty brokers John Goodhue, P.K. Zyla and Nancy Williams.

Goodhue said the property includes a stone boathouse, a primary residence and a stone and wrought iron wall.

"This is one of the finest parcels of land on Lake Winnipesaukee, with a huge sugar-sand beach offering dramatic views of the lake," Zyla said.

Roche said the property is unique and a similar stretch of beach on Meredith Bay, secluded but still close to restaurants, shops and other amenities, is hard to come by these days.

Roche said while the property is not the most expensive parcel on the lake, it is the only one that was recently for sale.


CLICK HERE (http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100117/GJNEWS02/701179873/0/CITIZEN)for the rest of the article

[jack1706]

Does anyone know who bought this property ?

or who might have financed it ??? ( or cash ???!!!) just curious.....

I had heard the previous owner lost his job.... happens to anyone !!

I guess Mr. Roche doesn't come to Wolfeboro... more expensive propertys than that for sale here.

[Just Sold]

It was bought by a trust. Looked to be a clean deal with typical financing etc. (public records were looked at) My guess is a developer bought it. It is actually 2 lots - the boat house is on one lot and the house on the other.

[Pineedles]

As I was informed a while ago by one of the forum's real estate members, these deals are usually cash. No idea who the buyer was though. Let's see who is doing well in this economy? Maybe bailed out Wall Street trader who just cashed his Christmas bonus check?:fire:

[Pine Island Guy]

Noticed today a 'pending' sign hanging from the 'for sale' sign at the large wf lot with the storybook fence. It is just across Meredith Bay from the town docks so the new residents can row across the bay and walk to Georges Dinner.

What a location.....9.47 acres....assessed $3,802,100. ........a nice little boathouse.....and the fence....asking price of $4,950,000. Selling price is....a secret!

And, the new owner gets to build the house of their choice. Unless it was purchased for non-residential use like a school or religious retreat. Anything is possible with 9 1/2 acres.....right??? How about an airport for ultralites?

Will that be cash or a mortgage?

Drove by yesterday and judging by the foundation that is going in, it is going to be big... if it's a religious retreat, i'm joining :)

think ice! -PIG

[fatlazyless]

It was almost exactly eight acres on Wagon Wheel Trail, Meredith, with almost exactly 800' of waterfront on the east side of Meredith Bay, just outside of the no wake zone, and directly, about one half mile over the water, from the Inn at Church Point waterfront walkway and gazebo.

Drove down Wagon Wheel Trail today, and there is one single concrete foundation being built by Southern NH Foundations, and a public posting of the Meredith building permit and NH-DES shoreline protection items which anyone can read simply by parking their car and getting out to read. While the foundation is pretty good sized, it is not all that big or anything considering the eight acre house lot that surrounds it.

So, contrary to whatever hearsy scuttlebutt about eight individual single family homes built on eight acres, or condos, or whatever; it sure looks to me like that 8-million dollar, 8 acre parcel will become home to a solitary single family house on the eight acres and 800' of waterfront. The existing 1960's home is to be torn down according to the DES posted items, and a very nice medieval style, granite boathouse is already in place.

I'll betcha the owner is kick'n themsself for spending 8-mil on just the eight acres back in January, 2009, because they most likely could have got it for 25% less had they waited till right now to buy.....................too bad................ho-ho-ho!

[ushaggerb]

What do folks think about the real estate market? Is it time to trade-up? Do we have further to fall? It seems like activity has been incredibly slow this summer. Any input would be appreciated.


To your original question (market going up or down), I've tried to summarize the comments below:

1. Nobody knows
2. The chances are 50/50, either direction
3. Using bad data is worse than no data at all
4. If someone knows where the bottom is, they are also omniscient
5. Losing 5% on a trade-up is more financially painful than losing 5% on one's current home
6. Real estate is one thing you can't make more of, except perhaps, jobs
7. A model that determines how the Lakes region real estate market works is as reliable as a model that determines how the stock market works

[winnipiseogee]

So the old Rose estate on Wagon Wheel trail was purchased by the professional wrestler Triple H. He is married to the daughter of Vince and Linda McMahon. Vince owns professional wrestling and Linda ran for the CT senate seat a year or two ago. I understand that Triple H is a NH kid who was born and raised in Nashua. Apparently they spent a lot of time vacationing at Church Landing and decided it was time to build there own house. From what I understand the house is pretty reasonable given the lot and the money paid for. Also, from what I understand Triple H is actually a really nice down to earth sort of guy - not exactly what I was expecting from a professional wrestler!! Sounds like we could have worse neighbors!!!

[bigdog]

Not to digress about the original topic 'Real Estate' but....

Facts about Triple H wrestler.... Quite impressive ! Congrats to him on his new digs at the Lake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_H

Check it out. For you older folks who may remember or follow wrestling, Triple H was supposedly trained by 'Killer Kowalski". Kowalski was famous, back in the 50's, 60's (AKA: The Claw Hold ! ) Yikes.....

BD

[NickNH]

We saw Triple H eating at the old Silo's in Merrimack with his wife several years ago. Kids were going up to them and asking for autographs and they were being very patient and accommodating....seemed like a nice guy.

[MAXUM]

What do folks think about the real estate market? Is it time to trade-up? Do we have further to fall? It seems like activity has been incredibly slow this summer. Any input would be appreciated.

Something I have kept in mind as I've been looking to potentially purchase. Prices have eroded across the board, in some cases considerably more than others. This price erosion has occurred with very favorable interest rates which remain historically low. Now you have to question why that is, IMHO the reason is because the banks are now putting far more scrutiny on potential borrowers and have by doing so eliminated many buyers since they cannot qualify for a loan now. Less buyers = lower prices due to high inventory. Now take this a step further, if interest rates do rise and it's not a question of if but more like when that will reduce the buying power of those that can qualify for loans. I see this as a mechanism that has the potential to further the downward trend, or at minimum keep property from any significant increases in value.

I think that if you're looking for the long haul you're chances of getting burned are less likely than if you dabbling in the hopes of flipping something any time soon. The quality of the property is key in a market like this to lessen the risk.

[Just Sold]

From the Citizen


CLICK HERE (http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100117/GJNEWS02/701179873/0/CITIZEN)for the rest of the article

Here is what is happening today at this 8.3 acre lot in Meredith. Looks to me that it will be a mock log hom with stone accents but it is not far enough along yet to be sure. It is on Wagon Wheel Trail.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486297_473964202646166_1316890527_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/305552_473964235979496_1944421484_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61204_473964265979493_2002193237_n.jpg

[ApS]

"...I think that if you're looking for the long haul you're chances of getting burned are less likely than if you dabbling in the hopes of flipping something any time soon. The quality of the property is key in a market like this to lessen the risk..."
A potential buffer to lakefront property values is a likely return to the 55%-rate (http://wills.about.com/od/understandingestatetaxes/a/futureoftax.htm) of the Federal Government's "Death Tax".

[Rusty]

Here is what is happening today at this 8.3 acre lot in Meredith. Looks to me that it will be a mock log hom with stone accents but it is not far enough along yet to be sure. It is on Wagon Wheel Trail.


Thanks for posting the pictures.

That is going to be one ugly looking house when it is completed.

Terrible design.

Look at the towers/turrets that are wrapped in Grace ice and water sheild...then there is a section built like a log cabin...then huge cement pillars at the front entrance that will hold a roof... for what???

Eaves are extended out and sistered to the roof rafters that will make it look like the rafters a bigger that they are.

Stone around the cement foundation...for what?? What a waste of money!!

I'll bet the construction company that is building this house is laughing all the way to bank... and his crew never had it so good.

[DEJ]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Anybody know if New Hampshire is a "recourse" or "non-recourse" state when it comes to deficiency owed on upside down forclosure?
I've googled this and found conflicting answers.

[Jeanzb1]

We've driven by this house on Wagon Wheel Road in Meredith. OMG, it is totally obnoxious. Nobody on earth needs a place even half this big. It just screams, LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Thanks for posting the pictures.

That is going to be one ugly looking house when it is completed.

Terrible design.

Look at the towers/turrets that are wrapped in Grace ice and water sheild...then there is a section built like a log cabin...then huge cement pillars at the front entrance that will hold a roof... for what???

Eaves are extended out and sistered to the roof rafters that will make it look like the rafters a bigger that they are.

Stone around the cement foundation...for what?? What a waste of money!!

I'll bet the construction company that is building this house is laughing all the way to bank... and his crew never had it so good.

Well, at least someone is spending money, which is undoubtedly is helping local contractors and building supply companies. I'm sure the contractors and companies are quite grateful for this, given the current state of the economy in NH and the USA.

[Seaplane Pilot]

We've driven by this house on Wagon Wheel Road in Meredith. OMG, it is totally obnoxious. Nobody on earth needs a place even half this big. It just screams, LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME.

Why not? He worked hard and he earned it.

[tis]

Well, at least someone is spending money, which is undoubtedly is helping local contractors and building supply companies. I'm sure the contractors and companies are quite grateful for this, given the current state of the economy in NH and the USA.

You are so right. It is badly needed in the industry and it filters down to others.

[Rusty]

In 1998 the house and land sold for $200,000

In 1997 the house and land sold for $850,000

In 2009 the house and land sold for $7,800,000

Now a new contemporary/modern house (I don’t know what else to call it) is being built for probably in the millions of dollars by L LAKEHOUSE LLC (whoever they are).

IMO this type of buying and building is ruining the prospects for the average person to ever own Winnipesaukee Lake front property.

Sorry for the rant.

[codeman671]

In 1998 the house and land sold for $200,000

In 1997 the house and land sold for $850,000

In 2009 the house and land sold for $7,800,000

Now a new contemporary/modern house (I don’t know what else to call it) is being built for probably in the millions of dollars by L LAKEHOUSE LLC (whoever they are).

IMO this type of buying and building is ruining the prospects for the average person to ever own Winnipesaukee Lake front property.

Sorry for the rant.

So you mean to tell me that you are adverse to profiting in the real estate market? Have you never sold anything for more than you paid for it? While I agree that some of the prices are astronomical compared to what you actually get for your money, it is simply the way it is. Sellers can ask whatever they want, people dont have to pay it if they dont want to. It is all buyer driven.

While I agree the pictures look a bit odd in design, I am a fan of log homes being that I own one, and look forward to seeing the end result. I like the stone on the foundation and would do the same on a log cabin. Mine is on pilings so it is enclosed in lattice and trim.

[Jeanzb1]

If I'm not mistaken, this is the house being built on Wagon Wheel Road that has a wrought-iron fence up along the road that must go for at least 1/2 mile. IMHO, it just ruins the look and charm of the lake. And when he decides that he wants to sell it, good luck.

[Seaplane Pilot]

In 1998 the house and land sold for $200,000

In 1997 the house and land sold for $850,000

In 2009 the house and land sold for $7,800,000

Now a new contemporary/modern house (I don’t know what else to call it) is being built for probably in the millions of dollars by L LAKEHOUSE LLC (whoever they are).

IMO this type of buying and building is ruining the prospects for the average person to ever own Winnipesaukee Lake front property.

Sorry for the rant.

Not to worry...the way we're going, our friend Santa Claus in DC will ensure equality amongst the population.

[Woodsy]

Good, Bad or Indifferent.... The days of the Average Blue Collar Joe buying waterfront on Lake Winnipesaukee have long since past....

Woodsy

[DickR]

Look at the towers/turrets that are wrapped in Grace ice and water sheild...then there is a section built like a log cabin...then huge cement pillars at the front entrance that will hold a roof... for what???
....
Stone around the cement foundation...for what??

I'm guessing that the I&W on the walls of the turrets are for later application of a stone exterior. "A man's home is his castle," and maybe the owner is taking that literally. That membrane is a vapor barrier, and it shouldn't be on the exterior in this climate. Particularly if the inside has a poly vapor barrier under the drywall, that wall won't be able to dry to either direction. No wall is perfect under all situations, and a wall that won't dry in at least one direction is a recipe for failure. That wall will have to be detailed very carefully on the inside to prevent any leakage at all of inside air into the cavity in winter to have any chance. The only way this wall will work is if it is spray foamed with closed cell foam.

[jrc]

This is just supply and demand. Assume there are a pretty much fixed number of waterfront properties on Winnipesaukee, but since 1950, the population has doubled. So you have to be much higher up the food chain to get one now.

The only way to fix this is to reduce the population to 1950 levels or build double the amount of properties.

There are more people now, you have to be more successful than your parents just to be a the same relative position.

[tis]

You know I don't think property on the lake was affordable for most even in the 50s. It was a lot less expensive dollar wise of course but relatively, I think it was still hard for the average person to buy.

[HellRaZoR004]

I'm guessing that the I&W on the walls of the turrets are for later application of a stone exterior. "A man's home is his castle," and maybe the owner is taking that literally. That membrane is a vapor barrier, and it shouldn't be on the exterior in this climate. Particularly if the inside has a poly vapor barrier under the drywall, that wall won't be able to dry to either direction. No wall is perfect under all situations, and a wall that won't dry in at least one direction is a recipe for failure. That wall will have to be detailed very carefully on the inside to prevent any leakage at all of inside air into the cavity in winter to have any chance. The only way this wall will work is if it is spray foamed with closed cell foam.

Good to know. For as much money they are spending I would bet they would use spray foam instead of fiberglass.

[barefootbay]

These places whom ever is profiting from them are monstrosities that are an affront to reasonable ,sensible humanity and the lake as well ! There has got to be a better way to create sustainable local economy without despoiling what is left of Lake Winnipesaukee.

[neckdweller]

Now a new contemporary/modern house (I don’t know what else to call it) is being built for probably in the millions of dollars by L LAKEHOUSE LLC (whoever they are).

As mentioned above, Triple H bought the house. L LAKEHOUSE LLC is probably a Vince McMahon vehicle. The LLC was formed about two weeks before the Rose trust sold the property.

[Rusty]

As mentioned above, Triple H bought the house. L LAKEHOUSE LLC is probably a Vince McMahon vehicle. The LLC was formed about two weeks before the Rose trust sold the property.

I can't disagree with you that Triple H bought the property because I really don't know. All I know is L LAKEHOUSE LLC is the official name as the owner.

I guess if Linda McMahon can spend almost $100 million of her personal fortune on her two failed campaigns for a senate seat, then her son in-law can spend millions on a Lake front McMansion and not have to worry about mortgage payments.

The way that house is being built it looks like if the "CAT" is away, the "MICE" will play.

[Jeanzb1]

Some big wig from the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) owns the house.
More money than class, I guess.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Why are you people not complaining about what Rusty has done on the other side of Meredith Bay? Bigger, ugly buildings, disruption of the waterfront, etc., etc. Why aren't you outraged over this overt display of capitalism at worK? Seems to me that certain people are jealous about Mr. HHH's success and how he spends his money. Would you be as critical if someone was building 40 condos on that property?

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

If Paul and Sephanie Levesque are going to be the owner of this property that's great news. His nephew and my sons played lots of baseball together in Nashua, Paul's home town. I watched many games with him and he's a regular guy, very friendly (and visually intimidating) who worked his butt off to get where he's gotten. He is a family man, married to Linda McMahon's daughter, with 3 young kids. I'm happy for his family.
Pretty good for a kid from Nashua...

[BroadHopper]

It is funny that the MacMansion owners wants to bring the 'Golden Pond' image to the big lake. Their MacMansions, yachts, and humongus trampolines does the opposite. The lake is becoming more like 'Lake Vegas'.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

It is funny that the MacMansion owners wants to bring the 'Golden Pond' image to the big lake. Their MacMansions, yachts, and humongus trampolines does the opposite. The lake is becoming more like 'Lake Vegas'.

It's a huge lake, although I agree some parts ARE huge beautiful homes that most of us could never own, others still hold that Golden Pond feel. When family come up and we cruise by the homes on Governors Island they are amazed at the wealth. Then we meander through Sally's Gut and its like you're in a different world. The lake is big enough for mansions, log cabins, cottages and regular homes.
The property on my left, lakefront 5 bedroom, recently sold for just over 400K. A small house overlooking the lake to my right is selling for just under 200K. Another lot on the street was on the market for 1.5 million. So you can find homes on this lake for both the average Joe as well as the above average Joseph.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Some big wig from the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) owns the house.
More money than class, I guess.

Do you really think that your statement exudes "Class"? Far from it, in my opinion.

[tis]

It's a huge lake, although I agree some parts ARE huge beautiful homes that most of us could never own, others still hold that Golden Pond feel. When family come up and we cruise by the homes on Governors Island they are amazed at the wealth. Then we meander through Sally's Gut and its like you're in a different world. The lake is big enough for mansions, log cabins, cottages and regular homes.
The property on my left, lakefront 5 bedroom, recently sold for just over 400K. A small house overlooking the lake to my right is selling for just under 200K. Another lot on the street was on the market for 1.5 million. So you can find homes on this lake for both the average Joe as well as the above average Joseph.

I agree with you. It is a big enough lake for all to enjoy whatever they want. What I do find interesting is that the ones who want the Golden Pond feel are the first ones to tear down an old camp and couldn't possibly live on the lake if they don't have air conditioning.

[Jeanzb1]

Sorry you feel this way, so I guess the truth is more than you can handle. "Class" doesn't need to flaunt their wealth.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Sorry you feel this way, so I guess the truth is more than you can handle. "Class" doesn't need to flaunt their wealth.

It's not that I can't handle it, but rather I don't see why someone who's worked hard and can afford to build a house the way he wants it (and will be paying a boatload of taxes to the Town of Meredith), gets criticized and ridiculed for it. What's he supposed to do, buy an old trailer and pretend that he's "down and out" (livin' on the Walmart side)? (Sorry FLL!)

[Jeanzb1]

The point is that IMHO someone who is very, very wealthy and yet chooses to build a lovely home that is not nearly as pretentious as the one in Meredith is classier than someone who builds himself an obnoxious Taj Mahal.

Case in point is Mitt Romney's home in Wolfeboro. He could certainly afford to build the Taj Mahal but, rather, he and his family own a lakefront home that is smaller and simpler than many homes on this lake. And I know someone who has been inside the Romney's home and has described it as "understated elegance."

Enough said!

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

The point is that IMHO someone who is very, very wealthy and yet chooses to build a lovely home that is not nearly as pretentious as the one in Meredith is classier than someone who builds himself an obnoxious Taj Mahal.

Case in point is Mitt Romney's home in Wolfeboro. He could certainly afford to build the Taj Mahal but, rather, he and his family own a lakefront home that is smaller and simpler than many homes on this lake. And I know someone who has been inside the Romney's home and has described it as "understated elegance."

Enough said!

True...his ocean front home with car elevators is very plain Jane. You didn't mention his other 5 homes either. This is his home in Belmont...nothing crazy...your typical Belmont home.

[Jeanzb1]

I may be wrong, but I do believe that the Romney home in Belmont, MA was sold and that they now live in a condo in Belmont. Yes, they may well own five homes, but NONE of them are as large and obnoxious as the many Taj Mahals built on the lake.

[jogator1]

Isn't it funny we feel the need to judge others based on our own inadequacies? How can you tell how classy someone is based on their house? That is riduculous. Some people like small houses, some like large houses, some like modern, some like traditional, some like eclectic, etc. We all have different tastes and desires which makes the world go around. I think it's great that someone is able to build the house of their dreams whether it is to my liking or not.

[Denny Crane]

I come up to NH to get away from people who find the need to find something negative in everything. Be happy for someone for a change. YOU ALL DESERVE A PEDIGREE.

[barefootbay]

I come up to NH to get away from people who find the need to find something negative in everything. Be happy for someone for a change. YOU ALL DESERVE A PEDIGREE.

We don't find negativity in everything just when travesty and gross injustice is inflicted upon us .

[ITD]

ARRRRGGGGHHH, please lock this down Mr. Webmaster!!! before I am forced to respond.....

[ApS]

I agree with you. It is a big enough lake for all to enjoy whatever they want. What I do find interesting is that the ones who want the Golden Pond feel are the first ones to tear down an old camp and couldn't possibly live on the lake if they don't have air conditioning.
If a camp is like mine, it's "nestled in the pines". After one hot day eight years ago, I bought two "window-shakers", and can scarcely justify that purchase to this day. :emb:

[tis]

If a camp is like mine, it's "nestled in the pines". After one hot day eight years ago, I bought two "window-shakers", and can scarcely justify that purchase to this day. :emb:

I agree, there aren't many days on the lake when you need AC. A fan is always enough for me. But then, I love the hot weather. I don't know how those who are so addicted to AC would have lived in the old days. And those days weren't so very long ago.

[ITD]

We don't find negativity in everything just when travesty and gross injustice is inflicted upon us .


Ok Barefootbay, please give some examples of the "travesty and gross injustice". Thank you in advance.

[upthesaukee]

...another thread goes to good people behaving badly, with personal snide remarks exchanged that have nothing to do with the thread content.

Back to the thread's content... What I really love is to see the McMansion with a family cottage still next to it. It is a big lake, and enough for us all to share. Now if I could just hit those numbers in the Saturday night drawing to get my share:rolleye1:.

[Jeanzb1]

Yes, we are all entitled to our personal opinions. And IMHO I wish there were fewer McMansions. For example, on our cove several years ago someone bought two lots, tore down the existing family camp, cut down the lion's share of the trees right to the water's edge (paid a fine to the town for doing so but no big deal,) built a McMansion with a helicopter pad, and now flies in and out on his chopper.

Another example is my sister-in-law's family on the water in Gilford. Their camp has been in their family for practically 100 years, now pretty much the same as it was back then. The current owners really wish that their grandparents had not sold the abutting land because they are now surrounded by McMansions.

And what say you about all the screamin' green lawns of those mighty big houses? The impact of all that fertilizer going into the lake every year has a huge effect. Hmmmm.......


And those of us who feel this way -- and there are LOTS of us -- are just as much entitled to our opinions and to express those opinions as anyone else is.

Wishing y'all a good turkey tomorrow!

[DEJ]

Yes you are entitled to your opinion however complaining about it on this or any other forum does nothing to fix the problems you so despise. Complaining from behind a keyboard is easy, changing things takes effort. If you want to make a difference here are a couple of opportunities/suggestions for you.

If you do not like McMansions then get involved with your town and try to pass legislation to limit the size of waterfront homes.

If you are concerned with green lawns I suggest you contact the DES and work with them to pass legislation to limit fertilizer around lakes and ponds.

Good luck. :)

[Jeanzb1]

DEJ: Dream on, dream on. I would surmise that there are more of us who "despise," to use your word, the McMansions than actually like them. But they are already built, so going to the town and trying to limit the size of future homes is futile. C'mon, surely you know that. Ditto contacting DEP about the prolific use of fertilizer. I have done that, too, and I have taken pictures of people pushing their lawn spreaders and TruGreen applying pesticides, but it seems that it's such an overwhelming problem that no one cares anymore. In a perfect world your suggestions would be taken seriously, but that's not the world we live in.

And in the meantime, I am entitled to voice my opinion on this topic on this forum and should be able to do so without being "personally attacked."

[DEJ]

I did not personally attack you, just made some suggestions on how you can get involved to change laws on items you do not like. Yes what is done is done however think of the change you could make for the future if you tried. Happy Thanksgiving, keep us posted how you make out.

[SIKSUKR]

Wa wa wa wa.I have an idea and its probably already on the POTUS to do list.Lets take away from those wealthy McMansion owners and redistribute to those less fortunate waterfront neighbors.:laugh:

[Greene's Basin Girl]

McMansion or McCottage. It shouldn't matter. Simply enjoy the lake. Life passes by so quickly. Make the most out of each and every day. The lake is here to be enjoyed by all.

[Rusty]

Yes you are entitled to your opinion however complaining about it on this or any other forum does nothing to fix the problems you so despise. Complaining from behind a keyboard is easy, changing things takes effort. If you want to make a difference here are a couple of opportunities/suggestions for you.

If you do not like McMansions then get involved with your town and try to pass legislation to limit the size of waterfront homes.

If you are concerned with green lawns I suggest you contact the DES and work with them to pass legislation to limit fertilizer around lakes and ponds.

Good luck. :)

There isn't a Town or village around Lake Winnipesaukee that will listen to any changes in the way the land is being sold and McMansions are being built on them. As an example Wolfeboro gets 70% of there operating revenue from lake front property owners.
The more the land sells for and the bigger the house put on it fits into the future operating revenue for each of these greedy little towns/villages around the lake.
IMO more average wage earners should be able to buy lake front property and the tax burden should be split up between all the people in these towns.

[tis]

There isn't a Town or village around Lake Winnipesaukee that will listen to any changes in the way the land is being sold and McMansions are being built on them. As an example Wolfeboro gets 70% of there operating revenue from lake front property owners.
The more the land sells for and the bigger the house put on it fits into the future operating revenue for each of these greedy little towns/villages around the lake.
IMO more average wage earners should be able to buy lake front property and the tax burden should be split up between all the people in these towns.

I agree with you but it seems those who pay the LEAST taxes are the ones who want to have more and more services provided by the towns. Spend, spend, spend.

[Rusty]

I agree with you but it seems those who pay the LEAST taxes are the ones who want to have more and more services provided by the towns. Spend, spend, spend.

Exactly...If the tax burden was spread around more then maybe these freeloaders would think twice before wanting to spend, spend, spend.

[ITD]

Whatever your "position" on this thread, please have a .......

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

[WakeboardMom]

Lots of folks who own those McMnsions are only there one or two weeks in the summer. Yay for less traffic on the lake!

I have a friend who lives on a small lake that straddles the NH/ME border. Folks on her road have a chicken coop in their yard. I'll take the Marriotts or Black-and-Decker any day over 17 cottages with chicken coops stuffed into a quarter-acre lot.

[WakeboardMom]

Exactly...If the tax burden was spread around more then maybe these freeloaders would think twice before wanting to spend, spend, spend.


I agree with you but it seems those who pay the LEAST taxes are the ones who want to have more and more services provided by the towns. Spend, spend, spend.


I respectfully disagree with these posts. What used to be my summer home (lol...lakefront but whether or not it's a McMansion is in the eye of the beholder...) is in a town that has one of the best school systems in the state. God bless 'em! Maybe my grand kids will be able to take advantage of this wonderful system.

My driver's license now has this town listed on it as my residence. I told the librarian the other day that I am a year-round resident. Woohoo!

This lake is big enough to have a little bit of everything for everybody. That's why I love it, my kids love it, my friends love it and my neighbors love it.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Rusty]

I respectfully disagree with these posts. What used to be my summer home (lol...lakefront but whether or not it's a McMansion is in the eye of the beholder...) is in a town that has one of the best school systems in the state. God bless 'em! Maybe my grand kids will be able to take advantage of this wonderful system.

My driver's license now has this town listed on it as my residence. I told the librarian the other day that I am a year-round resident. Woohoo!

This lake is big enough to have a little bit of everything for everybody. That's why I love it, my kids love it, my friends love it and my neighbors love it.

Happy Thanksgiving!

And I love it!!!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

[Merrymeeting]

True...his ocean front home with car elevators is very plain Jane. You didn't mention his other 5 homes either. This is his home in Belmont...nothing crazy...your typical Belmont home.

If it's posted on the internet, it must be true...

I grew up in Arlington, very close to the Belmont area where the Romney's lived. As mentioned earlier, he no longer owns a home in Belmont, only a condo, and that picture is NOT the home that he owned and lived in for many years.

Beautiful and very tasteful, his Belmont home was no where near as big as the one pictured.

[BroadHopper]

I have a friend who lives on a small lake that straddles the NH/ME border. Folks on her road have a chicken coop in their yard. I'll take the Marriotts or Black-and-Decker any day over 17 cottages with chicken coops stuffed into a quarter-acre lot.

You are going to have to get use to it. Chicken coops will be the norm for the new generation. Laconia as well as many other towns are revisiting and revising their laws regarding chicken coops and gardening.

Aaah, the old days when New Hampshire was Cow Hampshire, not New Vegas.

[barefootbay]

You are going to have to get use to it. Chicken coops will be the norm for the new generation. Laconia as well as many other towns are revisiting and revising their laws regarding chicken coops and gardening.

Aaah, the old days when New Hampshire was Cow Hampshire, not New Vegas.

The present administration will certainly hasten that return to the austerity of our forefathers.

[Hermit Cover]

whether on the lake or in La Jolla on the Pacific Ocean are rather understated.....but remember the man's own words, " I am severely Conservative...." and he is!

[gtxrider]

Any one catch "House Hunters" last week? I was channel surfing and I heard Tufftonboro so I stopped and caught the end of the show. A family was looking for a home on the lake! The bought in the upscale town were FLL lives.

[webmaster]

Any one catch "House Hunters" last week? I was channel surfing and I heard Tufftonboro so I stopped and caught the end of the show. A family was looking for a home on the lake! The bought in the upscale town were FLL lives.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14777