Camping on Cow Island

[Cow Island Kid]

I curious if anyone has read the Grantie State News article from August 6th. Here is the link if you are interested.

http://www.granitestatenews.com/Articles-c-2009-08-05-149201.113119_Cow_Island_campout_creates_controver sy.html

A selectman in Tuftonboro gave verbal permission to a Tuftonboro resident to allow them to camp on town property on Cow Island. The property is a small beach on the north west side just east of the Hole in the Wall. The resident did apply for and was granted a fire permit. The town ordinances state that there is no overnight camping including fires on town property without written consent. The resident considered the fire permit his written consent. There is also a town ordinance that prohibits drinking of alcoholic beverages and smoking on town property. Both drinking and smoking were witnessed on this public property.

When these campers arrived, we, knowing the ordinances, called the dispatcher to find out the legality of camping and fire building on town property. We were told that it was not legal and that they would be out to ask the campers to remove themselves. The Tuftonboro PD arrived, checked out their permit and left them to themselves. The officer then stopped by our camp to tell us that they had selectmans approval and a valid permit. Two of my family members did go down to the property and talk to the campers. One was meet with some hostility, and the other seemed to have some success in making our case that we did not 'call the cops' on them, but were merely finding out the legality of camping.

We attended the Selectmans meeting the following Tuesday. The issue was brought up by the Police Chief. He stated that the ordinance can be interpreted as not allowing or allowing camping and building fires. The Selectman encouraged people to go out and use the town property on the islands.

This could open up a huge can of worms. We hope that the Selectman write a specific policy that will control camping on town property. Otherwise, as the Police Chief joked 'We don't want Spring Flings out there'.

We have contacted the Tuftonboro Island Association in hopes that they will contact the Selectman and help to create policies and procedures to control the use of the Tuftonboro island property owned by the town. We know that the land is public and hope that people are able to use it in a responsible and ecologically sound manner, especially with no waste facilities available.

The action on this issue could set a precedent for the remainder of island properties owned by all the towns of Winnipesaukee.

I would love to hear some feedback and ideas about this.

Yours,
Cow Island Kid

[fatlazyless]

Instead of calling the local police first, why not just ask the campers if they have permission to camp there? Then they could have shown you their fire permit issued by the town.

For future use of the town's beach by other town residents it seems like the town should make a decision on this and then place a sign on the Cow island beach with a list of campng rules so's your Tuftonboro neighbors will understand what's expected of them.

[Cow Island Kid]

I actually went down to ask, but they had left three kids there alone. They seemed unconfortable with me asking questions so I let them be.
We knew the ordinance stated no camping, but wanted to have some confirmation first. The PD took it from there. Th campers should be upset with the PD too, as they obviously did not know the ordinance either!

I do hope that they create some rules and post them there. I hope that the TIA has some feedback for the selectman as well.

Thanks for the feedback!

[fatlazyless]

Over on Squam Lake, Bowman and Church Islands allow overnight camping by town residents so maybe Tuftonboro could check with Holderness. However both Bowman's and Church are pretty small and do not have other island homes which probably makes a difference.

If the town allows public use of the island beach then it probably needs a porta-potti, or something like that......an antique outhouse complete with an olde Sears & Roebuck catalog ?

[tis]

I read the article in the GSN and that was the first I had heard of the incident. Thanks for letting us know more. The problem is always those who are not careful and abuse it. What do they do with bathroom facilities? I , too, would be afraid of fires. I have mixed feelings about it. But my first thought is to think overnight camping is not a good idea. Why not just allow daytime visits?

[Lake Fan]

I had heard that the town was spending some time and money having a survey done on the beach to locate their property lines. They were concerned about encroachment by some of the the abutters to the property - kayak storage, not allowing access to the public, etc. Sounds like the town needs to clarify the use policy for the beach addressing camping, fires, etc. and the residents need to realize there is a public beach there that allows public access. That kayak loop trail sounds like a great idea - it would be something unique in the area and give land-lubbers a look at island life.

[Cow Island Kid]

The Town did survery the land recently. The Selectmen mentioned that some of them had walked the edge of the interior property and had seen some encroachment by island residents.

We use the beach in question to launch our kayak and canoe but always return them to our property when finished.

The beach has been used by many people in the past. A few of the camps use it is a stop when kayaking and canoeing. I hope it gets use, but with a firm policy in place to protect the land and the abutters.

[hazelnut]

The Town did survery the land recently. The Selectmen mentioned that some of them had walked the edge of the interior property and had seen some encroachment by island residents.

We use the beach in question to launch our kayak and canoe but always return them to our property when finished.

The beach has been used by many people in the past. A few of the camps use it is a stop when kayaking and canoeing. I hope it gets use, but with a firm policy in place to protect the land and the abutters.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Was there any discussion about the lack of bathroom facilities? What is the legality of urinating or other on town property? I have visited the beach a couple of times over the past few years. I wondered when this discussion came up what if more than one family wanted to camp there? What if a bunch of families want to? Shouldn't there be some sort of control in place?

[Islander2]

Interesting discussion... I to, have used the beach. I recently brought my granddaughter over to use the beach the week after the 4th of July. Nobody around when we were there. Had the beach to ourselves. Spent an hour or so on the beach. Don't know who, but someone had left chairs and toys on the around the property. Visitors and islanders alike should pick up after themselves, and keep the beach clean for all to use.

As a property owner on the island, I don't agree with letting kids have fires on the island, due to the limited equipment that is available to fight a fire, should it get out of hand. Property owners are not allowed open fires on the island, not sure why the town would permit campers to have them. Just my 2 cents.

[hazelnut]

Interesting discussion... I to, have used the beach. I recently brought my granddaughter over to use the beach the week after the 4th of July. Nobody around when we were there. Had the beach to ourselves. Spent an hour or so on the beach. Don't know who, but someone had left chairs and toys on the around the property. Visitors and islanders alike should pick up after themselves, and keep the beach clean for all to use.

As a property owner on the island, I don't agree with letting kids have fires on the island, due to the limited equipment that is available to fight a fire, should it get out of hand. Property owners are not allowed open fires on the island, not sure why the town would permit campers to have them. Just my 2 cents.

Actually property owners are allowed open campfires provided they obtain a seasonal permit and call in the fire each night they plan to burn.

As for the toys and chairs left around as I have seen I suspected the abutting property owners wanted to make it "lived in" ;) to discourage traffic. :D I know I would if I was an abutting owner. :laugh:

[travaler18]

I am from laconia and would love to know of anyplace i could pull up in a boat and camp overnight.I speant a week on lake mead nv. on a 60ft house boat . It was awsome . we could beach anywhere and camp,for its all parkland (all of it ). best part is most everyone picks up after themselves and looks out for others .Unfortunately winni is mostly a private lake with limited waterfront access ,so any ideas would be great:)

[Orion]

......As for the toys and chairs left around as I have seen I suspected the abutting property owners wanted to make it "lived in" ;) to discourage traffic. :D I know I would if I was an abutting owner. :laugh:
Funny you should say that as I have witnessed similar actions there. We were approaching the beach in our boat and we could hear the parents telling their kids (still in their pajamas) to go down to the beach. The kids ran down and started yelling "this is a private beach". Granted the kids were too young to know any better, but they were clearly instigated by someone.

[caloway]

Nothing irks me more than people laying claim to that which isn't theirs.

I'm affiliated with an organization that has similar encroachment issues--parts of the property are not frequently used, so abutters take liberties. You walk down there and it looks like they've made themselves at home on our land. They've pulled their boats up on shore, got a couple of storage blds, etc. One nitwit even built a dock!! A DOCK!! Trust me, it's gonna cost them...

The best way to combat encroachment is to use the beach.

[VitaBene]

Good point Caloway. Can an unused beach be taken over by an abutter via adverse possession? Would raking the beach and putting your "stuff" there satisfy the requirements??

[caloway]

I'm pretty sure the beach as a whole would not be in danger of adverse possession since the town is issuing permits on the beach and encouraging others to use it.

That's not to say that parts of the beach are not in danger. If an abutter is using a border section of the beach exclusively for long enough, he owns it.

There is an example of this in my town where a person has been using land on the fire department parcel to store his boats/garbage/etc. Because he's used it exclusively beyond the statute of limitations, he now effectively owns that portion of the parcel.

I would recommend the town visit the beach, verify proper public use and correct encroachments. The sooner the better. We've been on top of the problems I mentioned in the earlier post and it's still cost us money--mostly lawyer fees--to get it fixed.

[knowit]

Funny you should say that as I have witnessed similar actions there. We were approaching the beach in our boat and we could hear the parents telling their kids (still in their pajamas) to go down to the beach. The kids ran down and started yelling "this is a private beach". Granted the kids were too young to know any better, but they were clearly instigated by someone.

Am I the only one that thinks this type of behavior by anyone is absolutely disgusting? So if you are fortunate enough to have property on this beautiful waterfront, that is still not enough for you? You have to lay claim to the very few public spots on the lake to keep the "undesirables" (like me ) away?
This is appalling. I consider myself a good nieghbor in every way. Even in the house I rent on Meredith Bay, I am always thinking about the other guys out there. Probably to a fault. I would never want to affect someone"s enjoyment of the lake. (unless they were being a bonehead of course).
You dont own the lake and you dont own the public spots. If you dont want other people around go buy your own lake and fence it off. Sorry for going off topic, but attitudes like this by some upper crusty land owners are ruining the experience for all of us that have to be happy seeing the lake by boat. Pretty soon this will be just like lake Taho. A playground for the rich and elite. That indeed would be a sad day.

Sorry for the rant.

Not saying I agree with the town"s granting of the camping permit. I think that could get out of hand. But the landing of a boat to make a beach rest stop? Come on.

[Newbiesaukee]

You are not the only one; even some of us "upper crusty landowners agree." ( if by "upper crusty" you mean those of us fortunate to have a private waterfront on our public lake).

[6meter]

NIMBY! Need more be said.

[knowit]

No, let me clarify. By upper crusty I do not mean a generalization of all waterfront land owners. Not by any stretch. The ones I am refering to are the ones that seem to think they are better than the rest of the population. (Like the people that sent thier kids to do the "private beach " chant)

The ones that think us common folk should stick to another lake. It is my experience that most all waterfront owners are good people who made the right move at the right time to get where they are. I have no problem with that. I think you know the ones I mean. Please dont take my rant the wrong way.

Also, I would never dream of infringing on anyone's private waterfront. You worked hard to buy that waterfront and continue to pay through the nose in your taxes every year. I totally respect that. I am personally looking to buy right now to take advantage of a down market. I am talking about public access here only.

[caloway]

Gotta wonder what would happen if I went next door and started shooing people away from the softball field: "Sorry guys, this is a private field!"

[knowit]

They would laugh in your face because they know the softball field is public.

The problem is maybe some boaters are not quite sure if a beach is private or not. If someone came out and told me a beach was private and I was unsure, I would politely say sorry and be on my way. But if I later found out it WAS public and the people just were hoarding it for themselves I would be a bit upset.

[twoplustwo]

Not by any stretch. The ones I am refering to are the ones that seem to think they are better than the rest of the population.

There's enough of that problem on Squam, we really don't need it spreading to Winni.:(

[knowit]

I have never been on Squam. Thats good to know. I will stay away. How about Sunapee or Winnisquam?

[Newbiesaukee]

I knew what you meant and in no way took it personally.

[PennyPenny]

[QUOTE=Cow Island Kid;102469]I curious if anyone has read the Grantie State News article from August 6th. Here is the link if you are interested.

http://www.granitestatenews.com/Articles-c-2009-08-05-149201.113119_Cow_Island_campout_creates_controver sy.html

A selectman in Tuftonboro gave verbal permission to a Tuftonboro resident to allow them to camp on town property on Cow Island. The property is a small beach on the north west side just east of the Hole in the Wall. The resident did apply for and was granted a fire permit. The town ordinances state that there is no overnight camping including fires on town property without written consent. The resident considered the fire permit his written consent. There is also a town ordinance that prohibits drinking of alcoholic beverages and smoking on town property. Both drinking and smoking were witnessed on this public property.

Was that the woman who had permisson to camp(and the one who was verbal) was also there to clean up the garbage and weed wack the area, making it more appealing. Someones septic overflowed at the same time? BTW how many homes are on Cow Island?

[BroadHopper]

I have never been on Squam. Thats good to know. I will stay away. How about Sunapee or Winnisquam?

They are better than us because they are not regulating themselves off the lake. Maybe we should look at them as a great example of what lake people should be! :D

[Orion]

........
Was that the woman who had permisson to camp(and the one who was verbal) was also there to clean up the garbage and weed wack the area, making it more appealing. Someones septic overflowed at the same time? BTW how many homes are on Cow Island?

132 homes on Cow.

beach is at N 43 38.084, W 71 18.877

Would not like to see overnight camping due to fire hazard with so many homes nearby.

[ApS]

I have never been on Squam. Thats good to know. I will stay away. How about Sunapee or Winnisquam?They are better than us because they are not regulating themselves off the lake. Maybe we should look at them as a great example of what lake people should be! :D
Sunapee is good for kayaking. :look:

No, wait...:blush:

132 homes on Cow...Would not like to see overnight camping due to fire hazard with so many homes nearby.
Cow also has some elevation to it, and it's fairly large—the worst situation should a wildfire start. :( Hopefully, they have water availability and some kind of fire control.

BTW: Where does Cow get its drinking water?

(Guess I could have worded that last one better). :o

[fatlazyless]

Never having set foot on Cow Island, here's my guess as to where Cow Islanders get their drinking water similar to most all islanders, and myself, too.


Drinking water is of the plastic bottled variety, or of the 3-gal blue, lug-a-jug municipal treated variety. Tap water comes straight out of the lake and is untreated lake water.

[cowisl]

Sunapee is good for kayaking. :look:

No, wait...:blush:


Cow also has some elevation to it, and it's fairly large—the worst situation should a wildfire start. :( Hopefully, they have water availability and some kind of fire control.

BTW: Where does Cow get its drinking water?

(Guess I could have worded that last one better). :o

We have a well on the Idlewild side...please be careful with camp fires. Our friends place burned down a few years ago because of a cigarette butt