Bilge water issue

[bigdog]

Today, I took the boat out for a couple hours...... Beautiful day ! Two in a row Whoppie !

Before I left home for the boat ramp, I'm fairly certain the bilge was dry, as I had to place the plug back into the stern before trailiering. I've kept the drain plug out during the past weeks to let all the rain we've had drain out. Boat is on an angle on trailer to let water flow out.

Anyway, after about 30 min on the water, I noticed my bilge pump running
water solid, out the side of boat...... Probably pumped about gallon out the side before stopping......

Thinking this odd, I ran the bilge manually again after about another 30 min, and same occurred ? When I hauled the boat out, my bilge went on again automatically, another gallon drained out.....
Now I'm absolutely paranoid, and think I have a major leak in one of the bellows?

Actually, I do know I serious tear in my outdrive exhaust bellow, and have not reaplaced. However, I knew about this last year, but was not causing a water issue. I know the exhaust can work fine without this bellow, and the exhaust risers are made with one-way flappers, which prevent back water from occurring. I know... I know... I should replace.....

Pulled the boat out of water, and parked in yard after a great afternoon !
Haven't had a chance to take a good look at the boat or outdrive. Will crawl under there tomorrow. Will probably also give my marine mechanic a call to
come inspect.

Has anyone had a similiar experince as this before ? What was the problem?
Does this sound like either a U-Joint Bellow, or possibly Outdrive Gasket or Gimbal Housing Seal ? Just reaching here..... Would be interested in hearing
other suggestions.....

Thanks,
Bigdog

[brk-lnt]

With a boat, it could be anything.

For that amount of water though, I'd check around the outdrive (bellows, etc.) first. If you don't already, most people recommend that you store the outdrive down, not up, so that you don't over-flex the bellows.

If it were me, I'd make 100% sure the bilge is dry stem to stern, the go to the launch ramp on a slow day, back the trailer in and look to see if you can find obvious water intrusions.

[NightWing]

Could be a bad water pump, leaking behind the pulley. Have you inspected the engine compartment with the engine running?

[Dave R]

I agree with NightWing, water pump is a likely culprit.

Exhaust is not a likely culprit, ignore it for now.

Look at the power steering cooler, fuel cooler (if equipped) and oil cooler too.

I highly recommend pulling the drive to check the U-Joint bellows. It's very easy to do. See: http://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Your-Mercruiser-Alpha-One-Sterndrive You do not want water getting in there, it will mess up your gimbal bearing and U joints.

[bigdog]

Had a chance to investigate bilge water issue, coming into the boat when
underway on the water......

Here’s what I found when inspection of outside of outdrive:
Torn Exhaust Bellow – I knew about this no surprise, didn’t cause water
issue last season
U-Joint Bellow – Intact, no apparent tears, as best as I can determine,
felt all-around with my fingers
Shift Cable Bellow – Torn in two pieces ! BINGO !
Could see ithe cable feed into the stern.

The torn Shift Cable Bellow would definitely cause the flood of water into the bilge, and absolutely needs to be replaced. Will have my marine mechanic replace all three bellows at the same time.

BTW, I checked all hose connections inside the boat, around the engine, and all are tight, and no leaks. The water pump, located behind my main pulley is also not showing any visible signs of leaking.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback, for helping trace-down the problem. This Forum had provided me a wealth of information, that you sometimes cannot get from just reading a service manual !

See you on the water.

Bigdog

[trfour]

Happy that you found the culpret. Sometimes folks forget to get back to us that try to help them out in finding a problem. :(
Like I said, glad you fixed it!!

[jst_4_kiks]

glad you found the problem bigdog. would definately cause a leak and maybe sink a boat if your bilge pump didnt work.

when your mechanic replaces all the bellows have them change the water tube, check the engine alignment, grease all the transom fittings, u-joints, and gimbal bearing. worth the extra money to have those things done to be sure of no future problems.

happy boating (when its fixed) Kyle

[Dave R]

when your mechanic replaces all the bellows have them change the water tube, check the engine alignment, grease all the transom fittings, u-joints, and gimbal bearing. worth the extra money to have those things done to be sure of no future problems.




Good advice there.


Glad you found the issue. Not the cheapest of fixes, but it was probably overdue for this work. I replaced my cable and both bellows (no exhaust bellows on mine) a couple of years ago, before they failed.

[bigdog]

One last question......


Any idea of what replacement of 3 Bellows should cost. Parts & Labor?

Removal of Outdrive, replace 3 Bellows, install Outdrive.

I priced out parts online at about $65. JUst not sure about the labor cost or # hours this should take?

Any input is appreciated !

[fpartri497]

this spring before boat was launched, I had lower unit serviced (routine) but they discovered that everything Inside bellows knuckle, all seals. everything was gone. this boat has a volvo penta engine and drive system and only has 145 hrs. on It. cost me $1185.00 parts and labor.

:(

[robmac]

Last year Shep Browns performed an outdrive service and I think it was 150.00 P & L,so then just add the cost of the bellows,I have an Alpha 1 drive.

[NoBozo]

I would think an outdrive "service" is probably no more than an outdrive oil change and inspection without removing the drive.

Replacing bellows, water tube, etc is a whole other story. I don't want to alarm you, but I would prepare for an estimate of $1000.+ A bellows change is a real PITA job to do.

[robmac]

no they actually removed the drive,it was all labor only a buck or 2 for gasket

[Dave R]

no they actually removed the drive,it was all labor only a buck or 2 for gasket

Removing the drive is like a 5 minute job. My drive made a funny noise last Friday morning while I was driveway testing it on the "ear muffs" prior to embarking on a long weekend on Highland Lake in Maine. To be sure I had no problems, I took the drive off the boat, lubed the U-joints, coupler, and gimbal bearing, checked the gimbal bearing for wear, checked the engine alignment, inspected the U-joints, inspected the bellows, put the drive back on, and tested it in less than an hour. I was on the lake, 100+ miles from my house, before noon. Mercruiser makes it easy to do the normal 100 hour maintenance (which is pretty much what I did, minus the oil change). The noise was a worn, but not "worn out" U-joint. I plan to replace them soon, but I can likely get the rest of the season out of them with no problems.

Replacing the 3 bellows and shift cable are a whole different story. I'd think it would cost at least $600.

[Ross_t]

Replacing the 3 bellows and shift cable are a whole different story. I'd think it would cost at least $600.


I did mine myself on my Alpha II last fall. Not a fun job. My local marine service said it would have been $700-$800. I bought some of the specialized tools and borrowed the gimbal alignment tool. Parts were ~$100 off ebay.
I found water in my driveshaft bellow, but couldn't for the life of me find any holes. But I'm not leaking in water now, so it must have been the driveshaft bellow.

[Irrigation Guy]

More than just the outdrive has to come off in order to do that repair. Sorry, no estimate on price. Might consider a gimbal bearing replacement while it is apart.

[bigdog]

Just called marine repair shop for an estimate to replace all 3 Bellows. Apparently, this, as described is not a quick and easy process. It might only take 30 min to remove the Outdrive, but that’s when the fun begins….

I also believe, this should not be performed by the backyard mechanic !
Also understand that special tools are needed, and without, almost makes this job impossible.

Called 3 marine mechanic sources and got the following responses:

First shop - Quoted $700-800, but didn’t go into details what additional parts would be installed for this price besides the Bellows. About 4-6 hrs Labor.

Second shop- Fairly reputable marine techs, I've used in the past. Quoted me $475. He said they install what was called a 'Transom Seal Kit' Includes all Bellows, Shift cable, Gimbal Bearing, Seals, Gaskets, Water Tube, and about 3 hours of labor

Third Source:- Local guy I’ve used before for small marine repair issues. Runs his own auto Sales and repair shop, but also works on boats. Says he’s done Bellow repairs dozens of times. Asked if he has special tools for this repair, check alignment, use new gaskets, rings, etc Answer ‘not really’ ! Says he does repairs by his prior experiences. Says it will take him 6 hrs, and he’ll charge me $200. Labor. Parts extra, but he gets at 10% off from Marine dealer.

#1 Seems high to me, and not getting much info. from source.

#3 Extremely nervous and concerned about the competency to do the job, and no guaranty, or that something may be damaged in the process.

I vote for Door #2.!

What are your thoughts and opinions?

Thanks,
Bigdog

[Airwaves]

My primary boat is an outboard, but I also have the responsibility for an I/O on Winnipesaukee that is now 19 years old. I have limited knowledge of trouble shooting an I/O.

To the best of my knowledge the bellows etc have never been replaced.

Under normal use, what is the normal life expectancy of the bellows so I can avoid the situation described above?

[Irrigation Guy]

Sounds like a good deal with door #2 especially if it truely includes the gimbal bearing, which only last soo long anyway.

Definately not a job for your average back yard mechanic.

[jst_4_kiks]

go with the #2 option bigdog. quick and with all the part needed to do the job. quickest way to get back on the water. good luck. jst_4_kiks

[robmac]

Door # @ sounds like a good deal and given the fact you've done business with them in the past I'd go for it. Hope they're quick sun is out finally.

[chipj29]

Another vote for Door #2. Sounds like the best option that you have.

[bigdog]

Thanks folks for your opinions 'and honesty' ! I suppose it could be much worst, but the $$$ outlay is not at the best of times. Guess it never is !

I think I may be moving for the second best day for a boat owner...
Already had the first best day as a boat owner... 'the day I bought the boat' ! I thnk you all know the next best day...... :)

Thanks again,
Bigdog

[NoBozo]

I'm always suspicious of "estimates" that sound too good to be true...like shop #2. Seven or eight years ago I priced an Alpha I shift cable replacement...nothing else, just the shift cable. I poked around at different shops asking questions to learn all I could about the job. I Think it was Goodhue Hawkins that gave me a ballpark of $375..just to replace the shift cable, which at the time cost about $60.

I ended up doing the job myself. BTW: You need to buy a Shop Manual....which you should do even if you have someone else do the work so you know a little about what the job entails. West Marine carrys Clymers manuals for various makes and years of engines/outdrives. If nothing else, you will be able to seperate jobs that YOU can do, from jobs that someone else should do for you.

[jst_4_kiks]

Thanks folks for your opinions 'and honesty' ! I suppose it could be much worst, but the $$$ outlay is not at the best of times. Guess it never is !

I think I may be moving for the second best day for a boat owner...
Already had the first best day as a boat owner... 'the day I bought the boat' ! I thnk you all know the next best day...... :)

Thanks again,
Bigdog

what gives? you fix your previous problem with fuel and now you have a water leak and dont wanna pay to have it fixed? now your just going to sell the whole thing off so you dont have to mess with it anymore? each to their own but i think its dumb. shop 2 sounds like it would be your best bet and now your selling? tisk tisk.

[bigdog]

Boat is in for repairs and should have back by EOD Friday 7/24.

Yeah correct 'J4K", I'd like some 'whine' with my cheese. Just seems like everytime I turn around, some part has gone bad and needs to be fixed or replaced. Guess this just comes with being a boat owner.....

Although, I've had boats in the past that NEVER gave me problems, guess I was just lucky ? Current boat is 1995, but with only 200 hrs, I would think I would not have as many issues, with this amount of time on water.

Going with Outboard next engine.... all in one ! At least I can trade or replace engine easily myself, and keep the boat.

Thanks again for the feedback !

[bigdog]

Hi everyone,

Just got boat back from marine repairs.Had the following replaced:
3 Bellows replaced: U-Joint, Exhuast, Shift Cable
Gimbal Bearing
All gaskets and O-Rings

All parts were included in a kit referred to as 'Transom Seal Kit'.

They also replaced Shift Cable-the piece which passess through transom to O/D.

Also, had Trim Limit/Sender Pucks replaced.

All parts lubed during re-assembly.
All new parts were used, 'Sierra' brand.

Parts & Labor & Tax $600.

Took boat out for a run today to test for leaks. All appears well and bilge is completely 'dry' !

Have another same issue, which I thought was solved with engine stalling,
appears to have reared it's ugly head again ! Have posted in another thread.

Thanks again for the info. about the bilge problem, this one is hopefully behind me !

Thanks,
Bigdog

[NoBozo]

Hi everyone,

Just got boat back from marine repairs.Had the following replaced:
3 Bellows replaced: U-Joint, Exhuast, Shift Cable
Gimbal Bearing
All gaskets and O-Rings

All parts were included in a kit referred to as 'Transom Seal Kit'.

They also replaced Shift Cable-the piece which passess through transom to O/D.

Also, had Trim Limit/Sender Pucks replaced.

All parts lubed during re-assembly.
All new parts were used, 'Sierra' brand.

Parts & Labor & Tax $600.

Took boat out for a run today to test for leaks. All appears well and bilge is completely 'dry' !

Have another same issue, which I thought was solved with engine stalling,
appears to have reared it's ugly head again ! Have posted in another thread.

Thanks again for the info. about the bilge problem, this one is hopefully behind me !

Thanks,
Bigdog


Good news Bigdog. Sounds like you got a bargain. Stalling when shifting. Since they replaced the shift cable between the O/D and the linkage on top of the engine, I suspect all it needs is a followup shift cable adjustment on top of the engine. A five minute job. It's easiest with the boat in the water.