Campground Owners Pent Up Over New Tax Proposal - Meredith, NH

[Argie's Wife]

Source: WMUR

MEREDITH, N.H. -- Campground owners said the state is unfairly tossing their business into the bonfire with the current budget proposal.
Currently, the state doesn't charge people who rent campsites, but lawmakers have proposed a new tax of 9 percent.

Some campground owners said they're willing to collect a small tax, but a 9 percent tax rate could create billing headaches and drive customers away.
Barbara Palm and her husband run a campground in Meredith, saying people visit to get away from society. Palm said she thinks the state is giving her and other campground owners a bad deal.

"I think they feel it's unfair in that regard that we haven't had any type of debate on it yet," Palm said. "If they want to start at 1 or 2 percent, and work up from there and give us some time, make this effective in 2010."
Palm and other campground owners are distributing petitions in hopes to sway Concord to consider a lower tax rate.

Campers said they worry the tax will make an affordable vacation too pricey. Eileen Turcotte and her husband think the tax could cost them an extra $250 every summer.

"A lot of us, our pay has been cut. My job has cut me to 20 hours a week. If it goes up that much, I don't know if I'll be here next year," Turcotte said.
If the tax gets approved, Palm will likely have to send extra bills to all her customers -- most of whom have already paid for their sites this summer. Palm might have to call every single one of them to ask for more.
"It's really a difficult thing to swallow," Palm said.

Campground owners from all over the state have planned to meet in the next two days. The state could decide as early as this week to impose the tax, and they could also increase the meals tax by 1 percent.

http://www.wmur.com/money/19811369/detail.html

[fatlazyless]

Staying at a hotel, motel, or at a cabin located in a campground has been taxed at 8% for years. Ditto for restaurants like McDonald's where items on the dollar menu total out at $1.08.

So, the real question is why have campground overnight guests been exempt from the existing New Hampshire meals & lodging, 8% tax, up till now?

If campground guests want to go camping without getting taxed like that, they can stay at places like the U. S. Forest Service's Osceola View campground in Waterville Valley which is located in the White Mountain National Forest and has a terrific view of Mt Osceola. Being on federal land, it does not pay a NH state tax, plus it costs about $16.00/night as. opposed to $60.00.

No, the Forest Service campgrounds do not have hook-ups for water, sewer, electricity, or cable tv, but they do have decent outhouse toilets, drinking water hand-pumps, & fire grates. Some have picnic tables and showers with hot water.

Not sure on this but maybe they do not allow big RV's......just tents and cars?

[tis]

Frankly, I was surprised to hear campgrounds didn't have to pay the tax and wondered as did FLL why they have been exempt up until now?
Since they will never have enough money, we might as well get ready for MORE taxes. When there is a small vocal minority, each with their own pet projects, who demand more and more from the gov., they (gov.) give into their demands and create more and more programs.
I feel so bad for the young kids now. I don't know what they are going to face when they grow up.

[TiltonBB]

It should be pointed out that permanent camper owners pay a property tax on their camper to the city. I know that this is true in most towns and I assume it is true in all towns. The owner of the campground property also pays a tax for the campground land based on it's value as a campground. Therefore the city is already collecting the full tax on both the buildings and the land.

Why should there be an additional tax on permanent campers that are seasonally used, any more than there should be an additional tax on seasonal condominiums, or for that matter boats with sleeping quarters?

It is hard to know where to draw the line. One thing we will never see is a tax based on what tax supported services someone actually uses.

Should the campers, condominium boat slips and seasonal condominiums be taxed at a lower rate because you are not allowed to claim them as a residence and cannot use the school system?

[This'nThat]

So, some of us think a new tax is ok -- just as long as it doesn't affect us -- immediately? That we should all just "give in" to the democrats' wishes for more and more money?

OK -- I'm with you. Let's propose a usage fee for posts to the Forum. Call up your state reps and tell 'em --- Let's have a fee of $0.99 per post, unless it's a quote -- then you can also collect an additional $0.49 from the person your post quoted. And, let's enact that fee now -- and let's go after all those people with current posts and make them pay "their fair share" of back-post taxes.

How does that sound? To me -- it sounds just as fair as imposing a 9% tax on all campground visitors. After all, if you're an elected state rep, everything's in play -- except, of course, cutting back government. Can't do that -- much easier to tax everybody who does anything, rather than cut back services.

[Kamper]

Campgrounds are usually not that expensive. $50 a night would be on the steep end. I doubt anyone is going to cancel a vacation because their stay is going to cost another $4.50 a night.

[BroadHopper]

Bookings everywhere including camp grounds are down 20% or more. Airlines have cut back on flights 40% just to keep the planes full.

The govt. are saying the unemployment rate is less than 10%. That is not the real story. If you count those that have lost their jobs and are working part time and or working on a job with substantial cut in pay you are looking at more than 20% of the working population.

This is not counting people who have lost credit because of the 'sub prime explosion'. I can go on and on. The economy is worst than what the govt. is trying to tell you. Because our representatives are giving a false economy figure, they think there is plenty of money to tax!

The govt. is actually creating a deeper hole for us. It will not stop until they realized that the money is dried up! That will be too late to do anything! :(

[fatlazyless]

When you check into a campground with your recreational vehicle, you basically bring your own bedroom, living room, and kitchen and you cook your own meals, and then the state will collect a 9% lodging & meals tax.

Welcome to tax free New Hampshire!

If you want to avoid the proposed new, 9% New Hampshire tax, then just backpack up to one of the many tent platform campsites, high up in the White Mountains, and set up your tent. No state taxes up there, just a six dollar daily rent because it's on NH tax free, US Dept of Agriculture, US Forest Service, government property :D! So's to avoid this new & dreaded NH state tax, you can become a camper, tax refuge by camping on federal land.

Live free or die?

[SIKSUKR]

Welcome to tax free New Hampshire!
Live free or die?

Yup, you asked for it and voted for it FLL. Here it is. Happy now? Much more to come courtesy of your beloved side of the aisle.

[meredith weekender]

If you are staying at a private campground you should be paying the same tax as if staying at a motel, hotel or inn. On the other hand, if you are renting your site for the season then I feel that you should be exempt from paying the state their tax. This falls into the same category as long term rentals vs daily rentals.

[steadyon]

Hi all,
people are against taxes and gambling in NH, but where do we come up with the revenue?

lets come up with some good $ ideas

[Irish mist]

Hi all,
people are against taxes and gambling in NH, but where do we come up with the revenue?

lets come up with some good $ ideas

Here's a good idea: cut spending. Live within your means:)
________
Waterbongs (http://glassbongs.org/)

[Ropetow]

Here's a good idea: cut spending. Live within your means:)

And, #2, legalize slots. We have them already. It's not too hard to find someone who knows where there is one or two, down in some basement or back room of a club, etc. And our residents flock to Foxwoods and other slot locations, including Bangor. NH had the first legal lottery in the country. It sure didn;t ruin the state. The folks in Concord need to stop protecting us from ourselves. Of course, cynics would say that being against slots and budget cuts will 'force' them to go to a broad-based tax, one that FLL would surely love. Or is that just an 'income' tax he'd love? :confused:

[tis]

I like you Irish. I also see no problem with gamling either but once that is in for a few years they will still want more. Do we see a theme here?

[Irish mist]

I agree with both Ropetow & tis........gambling is a good fit for NH. I have friends in Bangor Maine who tell me that things are going well with the slots. I supect that NH will be under "new management" in 2010 after the mess that has been made in Concord:)
________
FORD MODEL T HISTORY (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Model_T)

[ronc4424]

Here's a little info on new cg tax. I am a seasonal camper in a cg in Ashland and pay $2500.00 for the year.I also get to pay property taxes to the town who in return gives me a dump sticker. I do not recieve any services what so ever. I shop at Bob's Shurfine,I eat at the C-man rest,I purchase my gas at Cumby's,I shop on Tenny Mtn.highway,I pay tolls in Hampton & Hooksett,I keep my boat at Squam Bridge landing and buy my gas there,I bought a motorcycle at Freedom in Concord,this list could go on for ever. My self and many more FLATLANDERS like me do our fair share of supporting this Live Free Or Die state. We don't have a say what goes on in your government but you do. When is enough a enough? Back to the cg tax,the fine state of NH is setting up the tax structure so we would have to spend x amount of days in our campground to qualify for an exemption. Guess what there is no cg in NH that qualifies unless it is year round,and guess what? ours is not. I am retired and my disposable income is only so disposable. NH will have one of the highest R&B tax in the country,thats something to be really proud of! I could go on and on, but I can only bore you so long.

[no-engine]

I am sure if I rent out my house for a week or two, I must charge, collect, and pass to State a rooms/meals tax!

What's the max time period? If I rent my house for a month, do I need to charge the tax?

Just like a sales/use tax, if I move to MA, I will be charged the one-time use tax. Here in NH, it's called the property tax based on value, ANNUALLY.

So, what time period is the potential change over for short term vs long term? Who will oversee and police the compliance?
At a campground or at a motel room?

[Skip]

...I am sure if I rent out my house for a week or two, I must charge, collect, and pass to State a rooms/meals tax!

What's the max time period? If I rent my house for a month, do I need to charge the tax?...so, what time period is the potential change over for short term vs long term? Who will oversee and police the compliance?
At a campground or at a motel room?

The time period is 185 consecutive days. If a customer rents for more than 185 consecutive days then they can apply for a refund of the tax.

Compliance will be delegated by the Department of Revenue Administration.

[Ropetow]

I supect that NH will be under "new management" in 2010 after the mess that has been made in Concord:)

From your mouth (err, fingers) to God's ears

[fatlazyless]

The White Mountain National Forest, WMNF, has 23 different campgrounds, spread all across their wooded mountains. It costs $20/night for a campsite. Some have showers with hot water. All have toilets and water pitcher-pumps. None of them have hook-ups like electricity, water, sewer, cable-tv; no hook-ups at the 23 WMNF campgrounds.

If the State of New Hampshire starts up this 9% tax, the WMNF campgrounds will still cost $20 and will not be charging this NH state tax, even though the WMNF is located within New Hampshire.

The WMNF: camping in Tax Hampshire without getting taxed.........:laugh:

[chipj29]

I have read in a few places that people who have their campers on seasonal campsites pay property taxes. Is that true? If it is true, how can that be? They own the camper, for which they are already taxed (registration fees). They rent the property from the campground. The campground pays property tax on the land. Isn't that double taxation?

I have been kind of in the market for a seasonal site, but I never knew any of this.

[fatlazyless]

Yes, it is true, and has been explained above in this thread. Overall, New Hampshire's local, county and state governments derive 65% of all their tax revenue from a property tax which makes NH by far the most property tax addicted state in the country.

Tax Hampshire - the big property tax state.............................:laugh:.

[AB_Monterey]

I have read in a few places that people who have their campers on seasonal campsites pay property taxes. Is that true? If it is true, how can that be? They own the camper, for which they are already taxed (registration fees). They rent the property from the campground. The campground pays property tax on the land. Isn't that double taxation?

I have been kind of in the market for a seasonal site, but I never knew any of this.

That's true only of campers that are fixed and are left in place all year.

If the camper is registered, you are exempt from paying the property tax.

It's one or the other, not both.

[Skip]

That's true only of campers that are fixed and are left in place all year.

If the camper is registered, you are exempt from paying the property tax.

It's one or the other, not both.

Actually it is a bit more complicated than that, and registration does not automatically exempt you from owing property tax.

This is the applicable RSA:

72:7-a Manufactured Housing. –
I. Manufactured housing suitable for use for domestic, commercial or industrial purposes is taxable as real estate in the town in which it is located on April 1 in any year if it was brought into the state on or before April 1 and remains here after June 15 in any year; except that manufactured housing as determined by the commissioner of revenue administration, registered in this state for touring or pleasure and not remaining in any one town, city or unincorporated place for more than 45 days, except for storage only, shall be exempt from taxation. This paragraph shall not apply to manufactured housing held for sale or storage by an agent or dealer.

The key phrase for registered trailers/motor homes being: not remaining in any one town, city or unincorporated place for more than 45 days, except for storage only

It is not considered "double" taxation as the property tax is a tax levied at the local level, and the proposed incorporation of the rooms & meals tax is a separate tax levied at the State level.

Please don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying what the law is...;)

[Skip]

For those of you not already aware, the proposed budget passed the House & the Senate thereby enacting the 9% campground tax, effective July 1st, upon the Governor's signature.

This budget also increases the Rooms & Meals tax from 8 to 9%, drastically increases motor vehicle registration fees and doubles the current fee to register your boat here in New Hampshire.

It will be very interesting to see how the DRA implements the campground tax, effective from July 1st on.

Many seasonal campers have already paid their summer fees, good until the fall. They have fulfilled their contractural agreement with the campground of their choice.

So, does the DRA tell campground owners that they will be assessing a pro-rated tax on the campgrounds for seasonal campers from July 1st until the campground's closing date?

And if so, the tax is the responsibility of the campground. Since the camper has already fulfilled their contract, does this mean that the campground owner must absorb the 9% tax, and that a camper can refuse to pay a supplemental bill because it is not in their contract?

What a can of worms this is going to be! My sympathies to the State's campground owners, that were caught completely off-guard by this scheme, and of course to the tens of thousands of campers that contribute so positively to this State's businesses and it's communities!

[tis]

I agree, Skip. The poor campground owners can't even apply for their license and expect to get it by July 1, let alone convince those who already paid to pay the new tax. Also because of so many applying for licenses at once, it will take longer than normal. It IS a can of worms. I know the point is to get the money thise summer, but this should have been done a long time ago or not started so soon. Why do they always wait til the last minute to pass a budget?????? (I know, because they can't agree until they have to.)

[AB_Monterey]

Actually it is a bit more complicated than that, and registration does not automatically exempt you from owing property tax.

This is the applicable RSA:

72:7-a Manufactured Housing. –
I. Manufactured housing suitable for use for domestic, commercial or industrial purposes is taxable as real estate in the town in which it is located on April 1 in any year if it was brought into the state on or before April 1 and remains here after June 15 in any year; except that manufactured housing as determined by the commissioner of revenue administration, registered in this state for touring or pleasure and not remaining in any one town, city or unincorporated place for more than 45 days, except for storage only, shall be exempt from taxation. This paragraph shall not apply to manufactured housing held for sale or storage by an agent or dealer.

The key phrase for registered trailers/motor homes being: not remaining in any one town, city or unincorporated place for more than 45 days, except for storage only

It is not considered "double" taxation as the property tax is a tax levied at the local level, and the proposed incorporation of the rooms & meals tax is a separate tax levied at the State level.

Please don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying what the law is...;)
Well, I stand corrected.

I could've sworn that the mail we received last year said that if we provided a registration, we didn't have to pay the town property tax.

In any case, who else can't wait until 2010 to vote the party that brought us this mess out of office?

[Skip]

Well, I stand corrected.

I could've sworn that the mail we received last year said that if we provided a registration, we didn't have to pay the town property tax.

In any case, who else can't wait until 2010 to vote the party that brought us this mess out of office?

I have no doubt that you did get incorrect information.

I have, over the course of a few years, gotten three different opinions from three different tax offices.

It was only after a long discussion with the assessor in my hometown did I finally get the correct information.

The taxing of seasonal campers in NH is a mess, for this and a number of other unrelated issues...:(

[fatlazyless]

So, if you have not yet registered a boat for this year, it will cost a lot less to register it if done before July 1, 2009.

The NH Marine Patrol's Glendale headquarters in Gilford has a walk-in service window for boat registrations, and two or three visiter parking spots just outside there, close to the water, and with a beautifull Lake Winnipesaukee dockside view. Those MP visiter parking spots really make you feel like a champion.....best spots in the lot....and no...you do not need to be a Gilford property tax payer and have a parking sticker,:D

The price of a mcchicken sandwich will go from 1.08 to 1.09.......ouch......oh no!

If Senator Judd Gregg hits the Powerball again for $850,000., like he did in 2005, now, the State of NH will collect a 10% gambling tax which is $85,000.

You know, the state should bill Senator Gregg retroactively for his $85,000. gambling tax, now that this will become law on July 1, once the governor signs it, just based on Cow Hampshire, olde 'live free or die' principals..........ayuh!:eek:

And, getting back to the topic of this thread, the new 9% NH tent tax, and how to legally avoid this tax? Easy, just go pitch your tent on one of the 23 different, twenty dollar campgrounds in the WMNF. Chances are strong that the view will be way better than what you been seeing at that other high-tax campground.

[Begonezvous]

I spoke with a woman at the Dept of Revenue Administration this morning. I asked what to do about rental agreements for this summer that are already signed and reflect the old 8% tax rate. She indicated that the 8% rate will be applicable as long as the renter has paid in full before July 1. This applies even if the rental period is after July 1. Rentals paid in full after July 1 will be required to submit the higher 9% tax.

This is good news in that property owners will not have to go back to their renters and ask for more $$ for taxes. (Or absorb the amount of the extra tax).

Of course, this conversation with the DOR is unofficial until we receive a tax law change notice from NH.

[LIforrelaxin]

Bottom line, if someone stays in a Hotel the Pay Tax, and the same should hold true for a camp site..... I am actually surprised that this hasn't always been the case.....

no if there is an issue because someone has a "leased site" with a Semi permanent stucture on it, then it should be taxed as property tax.... and of the camp ground should have to keep track of which sites this applies too.....

This isn't all that criminal..........

[John A. Birdsall]

be careful what you ask for. I live in Norwich CT right between two cassinos and supposedly we are getting money from the casinos, Well, my property taxes have only gone up, the cost of education has gone out of sight as now we have to have interperters for chinese, and other ethnic groups

We have multiple families hot bunking in houses that work at the casinos and we do not get taxes from them, but we spend a lot. Sewage has to be upgraded because of the influx of people. We've actually gained three chinese grocery stores.

Taxes no matter where you go is a sore subject. Pretty soon your gonna be taxing the greeters at Wal-Mart.:eek:

[gtxrider]

Here's a good idea: cut spending. Live within your means:)



Cut the give aways, cut the governor's and legislator pay....We didn't get a raise this year.

[fatlazyless]

NH should change its name to Nine Hampshire, because according to the www.ncsl.org it is now tied with Vermont to have the highest meals and lodging tax, 9%, in the USA.

For camp ground visiters and camp ground management, it must be a big shock, going from zero to 9% in about two weeks time.

As has been mentioned, the new 9% campground tax will not be charged in any of the 23 campgrounds in the White Mountain National Forest. The federal government has better ways to collect taxes than on people pitching a tent, and besides the WMNF has no hook-ups, but hey, what do you expect for just twenty bucks/night.

[SAMIAM]

I disagree with LI about comparing hotels and camp grounds.....you don't bring your own bed,kitchen,food and tv to a hotel.They simply provide a piece of land and hookups and I don't blame them for being upset.
They just went up on restaurants with no notice.Everyone was scrambling to get tax charts and reprogram cash registers.Thanks Gov.Lynch

[joann721]

I am a seasonal camper. I have a 39 ft trailer on a site in a campground that I can "use" from May to October. I pay $2300 for this site- my camper is not permanent it is only attached by the hook- ups. Now I am going to have to pay an additional 9% - then at some point, in the near future we are expecting a "property tax" - on land that the owner of the camp ground has already paid his taxes on. But I am still not considered a "resident" and still have to pay $20 to launch my boat (was $10 last year) every time, and I cant even vote the SOB's out of office. I love this area but will somebody please tell me why should I keep coming back here. :( The more taxes & fees I am charged the less I am going to have to add to local economy. I feel that I am being nickeled and dimed to death- and I have no voice at all. Lets not forget the increased tolls, the increased boat registration fees all just another little extra kick ... where is it all going to stop- how about a toll booth on the Kangamangus - $5 each way that is doubled at leaf peeper time or perhaps doubling the toll at Hampton going south to $5 just for the luxury of leaving this LIVE FREE OR DIE state..

[tis]

I disagree with LI about comparing hotels and camp grounds.....you don't bring your own bed,kitchen,food and tv to a hotel.They simply provide a piece of land and hookups and I don't blame them for being upset.
They just went up on restaurants with no notice.Everyone was scrambling to get tax charts and reprogram cash registers.Thanks Gov.Lynch

I know, they make these laws so easily not giving a d---if businesses have to reprogram all their cash registers or computers etc. But get ready, I have a feeling we ain't seen nothin' yet! I just read an article where they are thinking of charging a 1-2 cent a mile tax by requiring every vehicle to have a GPS in their cars. It is being tested and they seem to like it. Also with the cap and trade bill they will be in our homes seeing how old our applicance and windows etc are. All in the name of the environment. C'mon.

[MAXUM]

Know what's really interesting about this campground tax? All the "holier than thou" democrats that are SO concerned about the "poor" are putting a tax in place which is clearly going to hit those of more meager means. Why is this not questioned? Hmmm.... they are nothing but a bunch of self righteous hypocrites.

For those in favor of gambling, unfortunately like the lottery it's going to target the poor once again. Tempted by the chance at hitting the big one it's going to further spell the demise of those of meager means which then puts them more on the government dole. Never mind the negative impacts it has on society as a whole.

I'm not suggesting as a disclaimer that all who camp or gamble are in this category, but a great deal are.

As suggested already two things need to happen. First all the tax and spend liberals need to go in Concord, Washington DC and everywhere in between. The next thing that is in dire need is a complete audit of where all this money is going. I'm sick and tired of it being pissed away, I work my a** off for what I have and I'm tired of the government just taking as they please. We NEED elected officials who are willing to take the time to evaluate problems and solve them, not throw money at them or better yet find new ways to create more costly "programs". I just hope that people start paying attention to what's going on, clearly to many weren't last election cycle. IF we continue on this path say good bye to this country cause the way it's going now we are accelerating into a brick wall....

[fatlazyless]

Ten dollars is what it costs to launch a non-resident boat in Center Harbor, and it is a very good ramp. Check out Heath's super market while you are there.

[joann721]

was $20 to launch last weekend at the public ramp at shep browns - thanks for the info on Center Harbor.

[BroadHopper]

Is Alton and Meredith still free?

[Slickcraft]

Is Alton and Meredith still free?

Alton is still free!

[SAMIAM]

Saw that story about the GPS, tis........scary. Everyone is falling for the global warming hoax. Someday they will probably have meters on your chain saw. They are even brainwashing little kids in school. They come home scolding parents for leaving a light on....think we're murdering polar bears.