Sailboat speed rules near shore

[Lakegeezer]

So, I'm crusing along at 6.2 MPH in my sailboat, in a great wind. The wind curves so I can make better way towards my destination by hugging the shore. The thought occured to me, I'm less than 150' from shore going over headway speed or 5 MPH - even though I'm leaving virtually no wake. Is this against the rules, or do they only apply to motorized craft?

[Mee-n-Mac]

So, I'm crusing along at 6.2 MPH in my sailboat, in a great wind. The wind curves so I can make better way towards my destination by hugging the shore. The thought occured to me, I'm less than 150' from shore going over headway speed or 5 MPH - even though I'm leaving virtually no wake. Is this against the rules, or do they only apply to motorized craft?

I believe the wording is "all vessels" which includes your sailboat. Now at 6.2 mph you're only 0.2 over the 6 mph limit though it could be argued that a slower speed might be "sufficient" to maintain steerage. Mostly I'd think this particular situation falls into the nobody cares catagory.

[ITD]

I think you are ok, 0.2 mph is well within the margin of error for most speed measuring devices.

[This'nThat]

Here's how "No wake speed" is defined in various areas around the country:
As the minimum speedat which a motorized watercraft is able to move and maintain adequate steerage control.
As a speed at which there is no “white” water in the track or path of the vessel or in created waves near the vessel
A speed at which your vessel does not produce a wake or in other words, leaves a flat wave disturbance; not to exceed 5 miles per hour.
New Hampshire (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXII/270-D/270-D-1.htm) uses the term "Headway Speed". "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed. Notice that New Hampshire doesn't use the term "No Wake Speed" as other states do.

So, what New Hampshire is saying is: Go slow, but maintain control of your boat. If you can maintain control of your boat at 3mph, but still don't produce a wake at 6mph, then you are allowed to go 6mph. But if you can't maintain control at 6mph, go to whatever speed you can minimally maintain control. The expectation is that if this is more than 6mph, it had better not be much more -- or else!

[BroadHopper]

Weirs Channel is designated as headway speed zone. At times when the current is swift it will be awfully hard to go to the lake at no wake speed.

The biggest problem with this rule is that all vessels have a different head way speed. i.e. A PWC has a lower head way speed compares to a large cruiser. This becomes a problem in the channel when a PWC is obeying the law in front of me, and I don't have full control of my boat.

Changing the head way speed through the channel to some arbitrary speed such as 6 mph will force all vessels to maintain a steady course.

I have seen MP pulling over large vessels because they were going too fast and PWC's because they were going too slow! They were actually obeying the law by going headway speed!

[jrc]

There are two reasons for the 150 foot headway rule. One is wake damage, a sailboat at hull speed is not going to make wake big enough to be an issue.

But the second reason is control. If you are that close to other boats, or the shore, you have to slow because you have to be in control. Another boat can turn into your path, someone may be swimming near shore, a boat could leave a dock.

So the real question goes back to Lakegeezer, when you were hugging the shore at 6.2 MPH, did you have complete control of your vessel? could you stop in time if something unforseen happened? If yes, then you probably met the intent of the law, even if you exceeded the letter of the law by 3%.

[Pineedles]

There is no reverse on a sailboat. If presented with a sudden need to stop, the only way to stop it, is to let go of the sheet, which essentially means "losing control". Kind of a funny paradox.

[Dave R]

There is no reverse on a sailboat. If presented with a sudden need to stop, the only way to stop it, is to let go of the sheet, which essentially means "losing control". Kind of a funny paradox.


Much faster to simply turn into the wind. Sailboats typically pivot on the keel when turning, and turn rather rapidly at 6 MPH. This move will stop forward progress within 1.5 boat lenghts.

[Phantom]

The real question, I believe, is "Sail Up" (i.e. I'm a sailboat) or "Sail Down/engine on" (i.e. I'm a motorcraft).

If I'm not mistaken the "no wake" rule applies differently depending on which situation.

[jrc]

I can't find a law that covers sailboats differently than powerboats with regard to wakes.

The crossing rules do give preference to sailing boats over most powered boats. But the safe distance rules apply to all vessels.

BTW if the engine is running it is a powered boat. Sails up or down does not matter.

[Skip]

I can't find a law that covers sailboats differently than powerboats with regard to wakes.

The crossing rules do give preference to sailing boats over most powered boats. But the safe distance rules apply to all vessels.

BTW if the engine is running it is a powered boat. Sails up or down does not matter.

There are no rules differentiating sailboats from other vessels under the headway speed rule in New Hampshire, regardless if they are under sail or power. For this particular section of the RSA a sailboat is considered a boat.

[Lakegeezer]

BTW if the engine is running it is a powered boat. Sails up or down does not matter.I've always assumed the engine had to be in gear before a sailboat loses special right-of-way rights. But, you got me wondering so I did some Google powered research this morning. There are plenty of "unofficial guidelines" that say "motor running" means the sailboat is a motor boat, but numerous posts that say the opposite, especially in the sailboat racing forums (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/46766-right-way-question.html).

In the Coast Guard site (http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm), I found the vague definition; "The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used." That could mean "propelling machinery" as in the prop, is not being used. Rule 25e also mentions a flag that a large sailboat should fly when "under sail and powered by machinery" - lending weight to the prop as machinery argument as does Rule 3, in general definitions: "The term 'power-driven vessel' means any vessel propelled by machinery;"

NH DOT takes a similar stance, found at title 12, 270-D:1 Definitions (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXII/270-D/270-D-1.htm); VII. "Motorboat'' means any vessel being propelled by machinery, whether or not such machinery is the principal source of propulsion. " - again, propelled seems to be the defining term.

My conclusion is; a sailboat continues to be considered one if the engine is running but not propelling the boat.
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[jrc]

Clearly there is ambiguity, so here are the possible states:

Sails Engine Prop Rules to follow
Up off stopped Sailboat
Up running stopped Sailboat
Up running spinning Powerboat
Down off stopped Sailboat
Down running stopped Sailboat
Down running spinning Powerboat

I don't know enough about the actual enforcement to know if this right.

I'm guessing that the law was written to give preference to sailboats because they are less manuverable, when sailing. It's much easier for a powerboat to adjust speed and steer around a crossing situation, than a sailboat which might have to drop sails and or tack.

Saying that a sailboat which is has running engines deserves special privileges just because those engines are not in gear seems counter-intuitive.

I have a powerboat without sails, if I carry a sail in a locker or on my antenna, can I claim sailboat crossing privileges, just by putting my engine in neutral?

[ApS]

"...I have seen MP pulling over...PWC's because they were going too slow...!"
Is that a "legal" stop? Could the Jet-Ski be charged with intentionally obstructing traffic? :confused:

"...There are two reasons for the 150 foot headway rule. One is wake damage, a sailboat at hull speed is not going to make wake big enough to be an issue..."Excepting within canals and between seawalls, I can't think of any sailboat that would make an "issue wake"—either those that can occasionally exceed hull speed, or those with planing hulls.

"...There is no reverse on a sailboat..."
While sailing, I was once directed by an MP to back up to his boat. :confused:

I've since practiced backing—and it takes some sailing skill—but it can be a valuable maneuver to learn.

Much faster to simply turn into the wind. Sailboats typically pivot on the keel when turning, and turn rather rapidly at 6 MPH. This move will stop forward progress within 1.5 boat lengths.
I'd heard this before and attempted it last Saturday. I found that I could keep the board within a three-foot circle while at slower speeds—much less than 1½ boat lengths. I would expect heading off the wind—would result in a faster, but less-tight, maneuver.

(Although our area was completely surrounded by looming dark clouds—Saturday, from 9AM to 2PM—had a huge open sunny area over the Lake). :coolsm:

So, I'm cruising along at 6.2 MPH in my sailboat, in a great wind. The wind curves so I can make better way towards my destination by hugging the shore. The thought occurred to me, I'm less than 150' from shore going over headway speed or 5 MPH - even though I'm leaving virtually no wake. Is this against the rules, or do they only apply to motorized craft?
This is an interesting exercise, but I've seldom found that sailing parallel to shore—and within 150' from shore—ever gives an advantage. :cool:

(Down (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-04,GGLD:en&q=%22catabatic%2Dwinds%22)-slope winds generated from cool, heavily-forested slopes being one exception).

If given a windward shore, you can run aground; sometimes, the wind will curl over trees and structures and drag your boat's mast and sails into the treetops! (And drag your rudders and boards across the bottom). :(

Moreover, the mast and sails will shake up the canopy and you'll have branches, spiderwebs, insects, leaf debris and spiders raining down on you—don't ask me how I know!) :o :blush: :emb:

If a lee shore, your chances of grounding are even greater.

Lake Winnipesaukee's shoreline along it's undeveloped/prevailing/lee shores are usually rockier and shallower—with increasingly-intense waves and wakes.

Even where shorelines are not shallower, they can have huge boulders lurking within reach of your boat. You will have fewer options for avoiding rafts, swimmers, floats, dogs, moored boats and rafts when they invariably appear in your path. Approaching rubberneckers (even at headway speed or less) are another moving hazard within that 150-foot environment.

"...BTW if the engine is running it is a powered boat. Sails up or down does not matter..."
That's my understanding: You are either "sail-powered" or "motor-powered".

A heavy motor-sailer (http://www.sailing-cruise.net/motor-sailing/) like this one would be presumed under power with sails up or down.

http://www.freedommarine.com.au/db/que-vere%20-%20VW.jpg

(Not a great example of a motor-sailer, but all I could find that wasn't oversized).
:look:

[Dave R]

I'd heard this before and attempted it last Saturday. I found that I could keep the board within a three-foot circle while at slower speeds—much less than 1½ boat lengths. I would expect heading off the wind—would result in a faster, but less-tight, maneuver.




Heading off the wind will likely make you jibe (and if this is an emergency situation, the crew won't be prepared for it) and won't ever put you in irons, so you won't stop. Would be fun to watch from my "stinkpot" though... :D

[jrc]

Those things sound pretty like prety bad news, 1.5 boatlengths to stop even at no wake speeds, sudden jibes catching the crew unprepared, untrained operators, confliicting and confusing operation, damaging the natural shoreline flora and fauna with their masts, endangering rafts, swimmers, floats, dogs, moored boats and dredging the shallows with their rudders.

There should be a law against them :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[ApS]

"...Would be fun to watch from my "stinkpot" though...". ..."
Careful there, your boat is only a few feet short of being a "Gin Palace" AND a "stinkpot". ;)

"...Those things sound pretty like pretty bad news, 1.5 boatlengths to stop even at no wake speeds, sudden jibes catching the crew unprepared, untrained operators, conflicting and confusing operation, damaging the natural shoreline flora and fauna with their masts, endangering rafts, swimmers, floats, dogs, moored boats and dredging the shallows with their rudders..."
I think DaveR knows that a jibe is a normal sailing practice. :cool:;)

There should be a law against them :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Maybe you're right: I was viewing the "Yoga" thread and thinking...

"Yoga exercises are a lot like sailing's exercises, but Yoga doesn't have sailing's adrenaline, terror, cursing and Band-Aids!" :o :emb: :laugh: