Tax Bill

[dpg]

Theoretically should I be able to sell a lot at what it's appraised for on my tax bill?

[kjbathe]

In theory, maybe. Remember, the sum of assessment x tax rate = money available for the town or city budget. The budget is what drives the rate. The two in combination are what's important. While towns try to keep assessments close to the appraised or market value, they are rarely equal.

The appraised market value is what you want to go by. And even then, the true value is only determined by what a willing buyer is offering to spend.

[ossipeeboater]

Theoretically should I be able to sell a lot at what it's appraised for on my tax bill?

as long as everyone is valued the same whether thats at, over or under market rate theoretically it doesn't matter. Property taxes won't go down just because the markets soft because expenses don't change. A $10,000,000 budget divided by housholds worth $100,000,000 just has a lower mill rate than if they value them at $75,000,000 because they need to get the same $10,000,000 in revenue in either case

[ITD]

Oops, maybe that comment was better suited in the blog section. I can see this going bad quickly. Sorry folks........

[fatlazyless]

Spend...spend...spend....welcome to Spend City...ie...the Town of Meredith.

No...it's not a spending problem...it's a taxing problem....no, it's a spending problem...no, it's a taxing problem.


Well, it's all about local control, and locals in control always means high spending. :rolleye1:

[Skip]

Theoretically should I be able to sell a lot at what it's appraised for on my tax bill?

The answer is yes.

The local community can assess your property up to its actual market value, but not more than its market value.

If you can show, by utilizing the appropriate comparables (the same method the assessor is supposed to use to determine your valuation) that your property is assessed inapropriately, then you are entitled to file for and receive an abatement.

By the way, there is one special exception that very few folks qualify for, but I do believe that Fat Lazy Less is definitely "missing the boat" if he hasn't applied for this applicable special abatement! (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/V/75/75-6.htm) :laugh:

[fatlazyless]

Yes, could be time to move to Maine, the refuge go-to place for overtaxed Granite Staters. Is that why they are called Mainiacs?:D

[Merrymeeting]

I think property taxes should be changed so that the bills are based on the levy divided by the number of properties, everyone pays the same amount. Tax increases would no longer be a problem.

ITD, I'm going to assume you are kidding. So the owner of the 6 acre, $5M lot with 1000' for lake frontage should pay the same as the owner with a quarter acre lot and 100'?

Seems like a plan that would reward those that have at the expense of those who don't.

[Ropetow]

I think property taxes should be changed so that the bills are based on the levy divided by the number of properties, everyone pays the same amount. Tax increases would no longer be a problem.

You are joking, aren't you?

[camp guy]

For dpg: The answer to your question is that a sale price is worked out between an owner and a buyer without respect to the assessed value of the property. The assessment is for LOCAL taxes only, and may be a factor in the thinking of a buyer, but it isn't a factor in the sale price. There are some policies in the State that suggest the assessed values and average selling prices out to be in some relationship, but just remember, if a buyer really, realy wants a property he will pay a premium to get it, and conversely, if a seller really, really needs to get rid of a property, he will cut the price.

An owner sets the value of a property, but the buyer sets the price.

[Skip]

...There are some policies in the State that suggest the assessed values and average selling prices out to be in some relationship...

I must respectfully disagree. There is no suggestion, but ample State law that clearly dictates the assessment process for the property tax system in the State of New Hampshire. Rather than pull out chapter and verse, I will point the interested reader to this specific link (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/NHTOC/NHTOC-V-76.htm) that lays out the myriad of regulation that a community must abide by in determining the fair market value of the property being taxed.

More importantly, it specifies, the rights that the property tax payer has to question, verify and possibly abate the taxes levied on their particular eligible properties.

Every property taxpayer in the State of New Hampshire should make themselves acutely aware of the mandatory requirements a community must abide to when levying taxes upon the citizenry. Unfortunately, and much to the benefit of the Government, too many taxpayers in this State never afford themselves of the opportunity to question and verify their applicable tax bill.

And that is just plain shameful!

But back to post #1:

....Theoretically should I be able to sell a lot at what it's appraised for on my tax bill?...

A thorough reading of the link I have provided provides the answer sought....Yes! :)

[Seeker]

On one waterfront lot I bought the original asking price was exactly the assessed value. I wound up paying 1/3 of that, went to town hall and they revalued it to what I paid. Not really that simple but close.

There are many people around here that couldn't get close to their assessed value due to the "view tax".:rolleye1: One problem here is when you only have one house sell on your street in years to someone with more money than brains it screws up everyone else on the street. I'm willing to sell anything I own to the town for the current assessed value but they're not interested. :confused:

[Skip]

...There are many people around here that couldn't get close to their assessed value due to the "view tax".:rolleye1:..

This is one of the most misunderstood aspects of the assessment process in New Hampshire. The so called "view tax" is not a new or separate or more importantly, additional tax, levied on some properties. The "view", or as it should be more aptly described, the location of the property has an obvious and direct bearing on the fair market assessed value of any given property. Remember the golden rule in real estate....Location, location, location!

The fact that many communities in the western and northern portions of the State failed to account for total property value forced the Department of Revenue Administration to enforce many of the statutes I reference in my previous posts. Many communities where folks are now protesting had not done a proper revaluation of their respective communities for decades, causing a major imbalance in valuations.

But in the end the solution is readily available. If you are assessed at a value that exceeds the current market value of your property, a detailed and rampable process exists to be abated. The fact of the situation is that while many folks bemoan their assessed value and are extremely concerned with the direct bearing this has on the amount of their property taxes, very few people actually avail themselves of the remedies that are readily available to address any true unfairness.

The fact of the matter is that for the last legislative session their was a complete change in Concord from the Governor's office on down of a controlling political party. Even with a different political party in full control for the last two sessions no significant changes were made to property tax system here in New Hampshire.

The system in place is here for the foreseeable future, as poll after poll of New Hampshire residents still indicate their overwhelming desire to have a property tax system vice a sales or income tax. My ability to have direct and informed input into how my property is assessed and taxed, here at the local level, makes me one of those folks firmly ensconced in the majority! ;)

[dpg]

For dpg: The answer to your question is that a sale price is worked out between an owner and a buyer without respect to the assessed value of the property. The assessment is for LOCAL taxes only, and may be a factor in the thinking of a buyer, but it isn't a factor in the sale price. There are some policies in the State that suggest the assessed values and average selling prices out to be in some relationship, but just remember, if a buyer really, realy wants a property he will pay a premium to get it, and conversely, if a seller really, really needs to get rid of a property, he will cut the price.

An owner sets the value of a property, but the buyer sets the price.


Thanks Camp Guy

[SIKSUKR]

Yes, could be time to move to Maine, the refuge go-to place for overtaxed Granite Staters. Is that why they are called Mainiacs?:D

I believe they are called Mainiacs because they have MORE tax burden than NH.Get your wallet out to pay state income tax.

[COWISLAND NH]

Yes, could be time to move to Maine, the refuge go-to place for overtaxed Granite Staters. Is that why they are called Mainiacs?:D

PLease do the "Mainiacs a favor and stay putt. You'll be suggesting speed limits on the moose. Funny how your all fired up about taxes ($) but making silly laws that we have to pay for doesn't seem tho bother you. I was thinking of getting a camp in Maine...please let me know if your going...I'll stay. LOL:emb:

[fatlazyless]

The semi annual Meredith property tax bill was in today's mail, and everyone has probably heard about the selling prices that are falling off a cliff.

Recommend the instructional guide "Step by Step Property Tax Abatements for Idiots," by Ellen Engle. Hey, you know what I mean if I can do it! Very step by step...easy to follow....and was just kidding about the "for Idiots"....added that for effect.

And, all you need is a #2 lead pencil and a little down time.

:):):):):)

[dpg]

I called a local realtor, he told me the price I mentioned (on my tax bill) was QUITE unrealistic. :rolleye1:

[Skip]

I called a local realtor, he told me the price I mentioned (on my tax bill) was QUITE unrealistic. :rolleye1:

If so, then you should first call the Town that has assessed your property and schedule an appointment to review your tax card. In some cases a simple mistake on the card can result in errors on your assessment.

If the card is in order and you still believe the value for your property is in error, then your only relief is to ask for the necessary documents and begin the abatement process.

Good luck...let us know how you make out. Many times a local community will actually step up to the plate and be of great help if they have made an error in their assessment. It is in everyone's best interest to have an accurate assessment on file and avoid the abatement process.

[Lakepilot]

Is there an equalization factor that should be applied when determing what your property was actually accessed for? What I mean by this is lets say the town says my property is worth $500k, bu the town has been determined to under access by 10%. Doesn't this mean the town in reality is valuing my property at $550K, while telling me it's valued at $500K?

[fatlazyless]

Could be a NH town practiced undervaluing up tll about 2002. Due to a lawsuit back then, all NH towns are required to assess at full value, and on a much more timely basis than in the past. Waiting ten or fifteen years to reassess is no longer allowed, nor is assessing at a percentage of the current value.. Reassessments by the town must be done every four years, or so. The NH Board of Real Estate Hocus Pocus wants the towns overall values to be within +10%, or -10% of the actual value, and for housing values all across the state to be equal.........whatever that means(?)

Could someone who knows what they are talking about here, please step in?:D

[Slickcraft]

Is there an equalization factor that should be applied when determing what your property was actually accessed for? What I mean by this is lets say the town says my property is worth $500k, bu the town has been determined to under access by 10%. Doesn't this mean the town in reality is valuing my property at $550K, while telling me it's valued at $500K?

For every town in NH an equalization ratio is calculated each year based on the prior year’s sales data: assessed values vs. actual sale prices. If the equalization ratio is 0.9 and your property is assessed at $500K then the town's estimate of your property's market value is 500/0.9 = $555K.

You can use the town's assessed value as one rough estimate of market value if you take three parameters into consideration:

1. The latest equalization ratio for the town.
2. The coefficient if dispersion (COD). This is a measure of the variation in assessed vs. sales data overall and also by type of property. A low COD for your type of property (say less than 5) means that step one above will be more meaningful. A large COD like >20 means that the sales data is all over the place relative to assessed value.
3. Has the market made a major shift up or down in the past year?

A call to your local assessing office will get you items 1 and 2 above.

[fatlazyless]

No changes in my tax bill from last December. My kozy 2bed heated, insulated, year round, kitchen sink is lake water, kottage, approved septic & leach, no foundation, built over a crawl space, 30 x 30' circa 1960 cottage, .22 acre mostly level lot of 55' x 200', with 55' waterfront on a rocky embankment about 6' high with three large pin oak trees. Still assessed for 801thousand. Property taxes, about $730./month. No mortgage, no lien holders, just me on the title.

The cottage sits 20' from the waters' edge and has views of buoy 3, Horse-Dolly-Penney-Bear-Mark-Mink-Timber-Governor Islands & Gunstock-Belknap Mtns.

Probably in six years, when I reach 62, I'll investigate a reverse mortgage.

So, what's my place now valued for purposes of a Meredith tax abatement?

:):D:):D:):D:)

[Lakegeezer]

For every town in NH an equalization ratio is calculated each year based on the prior year’s sales data: assessed values vs. actual sale prices. There is some monkey business going on in relation to sales data. We just sold a home, and it was done through the AmeriDream mortgage program. With that, the seller contributes a portion of the selling price, 1-10%, to the buyer's down payment. In our case, the real selling price (and the price we pay our realitor commission on) is 5% below the recorded selling price (the price we pay tax stamps on). That will be hidden information when the assessors come around again. If this type of mortgage is being used a lot, its presenting an inflated value of homes.

[jeffk]

I would be very curious to know that once a property is properly described on the "view card" as Skip has described, how successful are abatement challenges? It has always seemed to me that the "rule book" for determining the value for various property components (example: sq footage of finished heated space, sale prices of similar properties, etc.) is fairly well known. If the property is accurately described then it is a straight forward matter of applying the current set of rules and out pops the evaluation.

When a town goes through revaluation, they look to see if the property description is accurate (did the property add a paved driveway?) and then the current rules are applied to the description. The result will never match exactly what a specific house is worth and in times of quickly changing values it will be even more out of whack.

If the description of the property is accurate and the same rules are applied to everyone why would an abatement be granted?

If the rules are found to be in error (house sale prices are not correct for example) then it seems that this would be a basis to invalidate EVERYONES assessment since the rule book now needs to be rewritten. What a mess that would be. I would think it unlikely that this type of sweeping mistake would be made by profession assessment companies.

So again, what would be the basis of granting an abatement?:confused:

[TiltonBB]

I applied for an abatement on the value the town placed on my land. The house value was fine. I appealed just the land value but if they come out they will look at everything on your property. (Docks, sheds etc.)

My contention was that other waterfront lots on my street were less steep (more desirable, more valuable) than mine. I also pointed out that the other area lots that I used in my comparison were more rectangular and thus had more buildable area. My lot has 105 feet of lake frontage but only about 57 feet at the street. Because the town has a sideline setback requirement for building of 25 feet, that setback requirement makes much of my land virtually unbuildable. (A lot with 100 feet on the lake and 100 feet on the street would have a 50 foot wide area down the middle to build on.)

I submitted the addresses of 5 lots on my street along with a list of reasons why my lot should be valued less they were. The town sent an appraiser out and reduced my valuation by about $80,000.

[HUH]

Gilford has a full time assesment depart ment that was constantly reassesing properties, especialy after a building permit.
Now that real estate values have slipped 50% there is no reassesing going on
:rolleye2:
They also have a 6 million dollar undesignated fund which they are desperatly trying to earmark.
Why cant federal, state and local govt. understand that its our money to begin with. Are the politicians immediatly brainwashed when they are elected into the bigger is better mentality.
If you have a 6 million surplus then we were overtaxed and it should be sent back or taken off this years bill which is stuck at an assesment level pre decline.:rolleye2::rolleye2:

[Weekend Pundit]

Gilford has a full time assesment depart ment that was constantly reassesing properties, especialy after a building permit.
Now that real estate values have slipped 50% there is no reassesing going on


I don't know about you, but my assessment in Gilford went down this year as compared to last year. The town denied my abatement last year (valuation was up 20% in one year!), but adjusted it down about $21,000 this year. It's still too high, but at least it's down.

They also have a 6 million dollar undesignated fund which they are desperatly trying to earmark.
Why cant federal, state and local govt. understand that its our money to begin with. Are the politicians immediatly brainwashed when they are elected into the bigger is better mentality.
If you have a 6 million surplus then we were overtaxed and it should be sent back or taken off this years bill which is stuck at an assesment level pre decline.

Some of the undesignated funds will probably be used to shift the town to a new fiscal year. Some may be used to pay for the construction of the police station addition and renovation, which will keep the project from affecting the taxes in town. But the whole fund can not be spent as the town is required to keep some cash reserve.

[HUH]

I don't know about you, but my assessment in Gilford went down this year as compared to last year. The town denied my abatement last year (valuation was up 20% in one year!), but adjusted it down about $21,000 this year. It's still too high, but at least it's down.

My assesment stayed the same as did my tax bill.

Some of the undesignated funds will probably be used to shift the town to a new fiscal year. Some may be used to pay for the construction of the police station addition and renovation, which will keep the project from affecting the taxes in town. But the whole fund can not be spent as the town is required to keep some cash reserve.

Not doing it at all will keep the police station from affecting the taxes in town... How is it that in these times of continued inflation, highest unemployment rates in years and a continued downward spiral in real estate values not to mention the ever shrinking US dollar do we need to keep spending on a new police station. Enough is Enough already.
Im realy tired of the sense of entitlement that never seems to go away.
The roads and bridges are crumbling beneath us yet we build a library and possibly a police station :confused:

[fatlazyless]

A very good, Meredith waterfront home comparision to my cottage, and offered for sale for 200k less than what my place is assessed.

A 1920 yellow waterfront house for sale at 61 Pinnacle Park Rd, Meredith, which is on Meredith Bay, facing west into the setting sun, and directly across the Bay from Grousse Point. .20 acre, 96' waterfront, taxes $7478., deep sandy waterfront area, large permanent dock, house fronts about 20' from the water's edge, winterized lake water, heat:hot air furnace/oil, three bed septic design, funky paved driveway.

Excellent one to tear down and rebuild on the same footprint, or just move in & collect unemployment!.

asking price: $599,000.

And, that's the asking price, so if it sells for 550k, that will be 250k less than my assessment. ....a huge difference! Talk about property tax assessment inequity right here in Meredith!:eek:

Do we have a property tax problem right here in Meredith, or do we have a property tax problem right here in Meredith?:D
(sung to the famous Music Man theme song)

I tell ya!

[HUH]

Not doing it at all will keep the police station from affecting the taxes in town... How is it that in these times of continued inflation, highest unemployment rates in years and a continued downward spiral in real estate values not to mention the ever shrinking US dollar do we need to keep spending on a new police station. Enough is Enough already.
Im realy tired of the sense of entitlement that never seems to go away.
The roads and bridges are crumbling beneath us yet we build a library and possibly a police station :confused:

Just to clear it up.. I must have typed "My assesment stayed the same as did my tax bill" into the quote box :emb:.

[fatlazyless]

Finding the description, assessed value, and a color photograph for Meredith is fast & easy at the Vision Appraisal site.

61 Pinnacle Point, waterfront house for sale

assessment $685400

asking price $599000


And, that's the asking price, not the sold price. Could be it was over assessed, or this lower value could be the result of more realistic mortgage requirements.

[HUH]

Id file an abatement if you're not happy, seems to work for many in Gilford..Real estate values are off 23-100 % some properties i've been looking at are for sale at 1988 values.. NOW is the time to buy :D

[Weekend Pundit]

Not doing it at all will keep the police station from affecting the taxes in town... How is it that in these times of continued inflation, highest unemployment rates in years and a continued downward spiral in real estate values not to mention the ever shrinking US dollar do we need to keep spending on a new police station. Enough is Enough already.
Im realy tired of the sense of entitlement that never seems to go away.
The roads and bridges are crumbling beneath us yet we build a library and possibly a police station :confused:

First, the town did not fund the new library building.

Second, if you've been in the police station any time over the past few years you'd realize that it's too crowded, too small, and totally inadequate in regards to many of the newer legal requirements. It leaves the town wide open for lawsuits that could end up costing the town far more than the addition to and renovation of the police station.

By your reasoning, the town should not have replaced the broken down fire engine, shouldn't replace the ambulance which will soon become quite expensive to maintain, and shouldn't ever replace any old Public Works Department trucks or equipment.

A sense of entitlement has nothing to do with it. Instead, question the non-capital expenditures of the town government and the school system. The school system takes up two-thirds of the town budget. Maybe that's where you should focus your derision.

[HUH]

First, the town did not fund the new library building.

Second, if you've been in the police station any time over the past few years you'd realize that it's too crowded, too small, and totally inadequate in regards to many of the newer legal requirements. It leaves the town wide open for lawsuits that could end up costing the town far more than the addition to and renovation of the police station.

By your reasoning, the town should not have replaced the broken down fire engine, shouldn't replace the ambulance which will soon become quite expensive to maintain, and shouldn't ever replace any old Public Works Department trucks or equipment.

A sense of entitlement has nothing to do with it. Instead, question the non-capital expenditures of the town government and the school system. The school system takes up two-thirds of the town budget. Maybe that's where you should focus your derision.

Firstly I never said anything about funding the library.
Although the free library will cost 10's of thousands per year to maintain.
Secondly I have been through the police station and was very sad to see the chief did not have a coat closet. Lawsuits? How about the tazers ..now thats only a matter of time.. just saw another 35 year old killed by a tazer for enjoying himself.
I dont know about you but 250,000 sounds like alot for an ambulance..couldnt they just call a cab :D
Im all for enlarging the DPW budget, the roads and bridges are looking rough.
Dont even get me going on the school budget which is mainly what im reffering to when I mention "sense of entitlement.Its the "my kids need the best at any cost" attitude that im reffering too.

[dpg]

If so, then you should first call the Town that has assessed your property and schedule an appointment to review your tax card. In some cases a simple mistake on the card can result in errors on your assessment.

If the card is in order and you still believe the value for your property is in error, then your only relief is to ask for the necessary documents and begin the abatement process.

Good luck...let us know how you make out. Many times a local community will actually step up to the plate and be of great help if they have made an error in their assessment. It is in everyone's best interest to have an accurate assessment on file and avoid the abatement process.

Thanks Skip. I will not be persueing this process at this time. I am not a resident and just do not have the time currently to make the calls, do the driving or whatever. Yeah, I know it may potentially lower my tax bill but it's a single (small) lot and what the bill could possibly be lowered just doesn't warrant the headaches right now. I'll keep it in mind for the future though.

[Weekend Pundit]

A response to HUH:

Firstly I never said anything about funding the library.
Although the free library will cost 10's of thousands per year to maintain.No, but you implied the town paid for it. You wrote "The roads and bridges are crumbling beneath us yet we build a library and possibly a police station." I agree that wasn't your intention, but that's how it read.

I must ask how is it you've forgotten the present library also has operating and maintenance costs? I think you'll find the new library will cost less to operate than the present one. Heat will cost less, as will cooling. Preventative and failure maintenance costs will be minimal for a number of years as compared to the present building.

Secondly I have been through the police station and was very sad to see the chief did not have a coat closet. Lawsuits? How about the tazers ..now thats only a matter of time.. just saw another 35 year old killed by a tazer for enjoying himself.I am assuming satire on the first part. I have no idea to which incident you're referring, so I cannot comment on the second part in regards to tasers. The lawsuit(s) I was referring to were those filed by detainees injured due to inadequate safeguards as the police station is presently configured or present defendants or inmates filing due to compromised or stolen evidence since evidence storage is not nearly as secure as it should be because of the lack of storage space in the station.

Dont even get me going on the school budget which is mainly what im reffering to when I mention "sense of entitlement.Its the "my kids need the best at any cost" attitude that im reffering too.You'll get no argument from me on that subject.

[HUH]

Accepting an initialy free library is what the taxpayers "we" did. So Ill say it again "WE" built the library, even though it was voted down ..how many times 3.. i forget. Ill miss the old library with the smell of musty books and the creaking floors. Hey wouldnt it make a great police station?
Maybe im just super conservative but I just dont care where the cuts come from.. its time to apply the brakes. We have 6,000,000 million dollars in an undesignated fund which will most likely be dipped into for another PR campaign to pitch a new police station back to the taxpayers. Using our money to convince us to spend more of it ?? I realy think your making too much of the liability issue with the booking area of the police station. Im sure evidence storage can be found for a lot less that 3.5 million...
We all know how out of touch with reality the school budgets have become but with the unions/contracts were out of luck getting cuts there.
I have no problem with the way properties are taxed here. Only the out of control budget.