Boater's Education Certificates

[Sully]

My wife and I plan to earn our certificates before ice out. Could someone explain the process of doing so. Is it necessary to spend a full Saturday or two week nights in order to take the test? If someone would explain the process I would be very appreciative.

Happy Easter.....the sun is getting stronger!!

Sully

[robmac]

I think you have to take the course to get your boating certificate

[Skip]

Visit THIS (http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/ss/boatinged/) website to get course information, schedules & testing dates. You can take a classroom course with a proctored exam, or study on-line at your own convenience and take a proctored exam at one of the listed times & places.

Skip

[Sully]

Thank you Skip. Your input was very helpful and my questions are answered.
Sully

[SBC]

...Is it necessary to spend a full Saturday or two week nights in order to take the test? ...Sully

As you may have discovered, the certificate is good for life and is reciprocal with other states that have/are instituting similar requirements.

Although the classroom course is only about 7 1/2 hours long that is the most comprehensive offering. It allows you to interact with a real instructor, other attendees and what the heck, it's only one day out of your life for a cert that's good for life.

And for a total cost of only $20 it is still one of the great bargains in boating!!!

[Bear Islander]

And what some people don't want you to know is that if you get an online internet certificate in another state, it is good in New Hampshire.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

And what some people don't want you to know is that if you get an online Internet certificate in another state, it is good in New Hampshire.

Now why would you want people to take the short cut to knowing the rules in New Hampshire? How many post have you done that speak to the safety issue?

[Resident 2B]

And what some people don't want you to know is that if you get an online internet certificate in another state, it is good in New Hampshire.

BI,

If safety is the reason we have, and in my opinion need, the requirement for well-earned safe boating certificates, and if it is generally agreed that proctored exams are by far better than on-line testing, then why are you, someone that has been very vocally supporting significant limits on boating on the big lake, telling folks that they can get around the stronger rules by testing on-line in another state?

This makes no sense at all!

I really have to ask who you really are and what the heck are you thinking?

Sorry, but I really do not understand your behavior regarding this issue.

R2B

[Airwaves]

Resident 2 B wrote:
BI,

If safety is the reason we have, and in my opinion need, the requirement for well-earned safe boating certificates, and if it is generally agreed that proctored exams are by far better than on-line testing, then why are you, someone that has been very vocally supporting significant limits on boating on the big lake, telling folks that they can get around the stronger rules by testing on-line in another state?
The fact of the matter is BI has stated that the speed limit issue is NOT a safety issue!

From post #317 in the Lt Dunleavy thread BI wrote:
In fact safety is not my primary reason for wanting speed limits.

So I guess it boils down to BI doesn’t like a certain type of boat and wants it off his lake, but doesn’t mind if there are folks in BI "approved" boats running around within 150’ of everyone and not knowing why everyone is yelling at them!

Everyone should take a proctored exam and if your state doesn’t offer such an exam recognized in New Hampshire, I believe Massachusetts falls into that category, then take this ONLINE COURSE (http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/index.htm)and then schedule a proctored exam with the Marine Patrol or take a US Coast Guard Auxiliary or US Power Squadron course and read up on New Hampshire’s unique rules.

[Bear Islander]

BI,

If safety is the reason we have, and in my opinion need, the requirement for well-earned safe boating certificates, and if it is generally agreed that proctored exams are by far better than on-line testing, then why are you, someone that has been very vocally supporting significant limits on boating on the big lake, telling folks that they can get around the stronger rules by testing on-line in another state?

This makes no sense at all!

I really have to ask who you really are and what the heck are you thinking?

Sorry, but I really do not understand your behavior regarding this issue.

R2B

In my opinion a lie of omission is still a lie.

I do not believe allowing internet certificates is a good idea, and I am sure that many will abuse the situation. However the question was how can you obtain a certificate. An out of state certificate is a legal option, to pretend that option does not exist, because we do not like it, is a lie. I value safety a great deal, but truth is an even more valuable commodity.

I will also point out that because a non-proctored exam "can" be cheated on does not mean it "will" be cheated on. I personally dislike classroom study, I cut a lot of classes in college. Give me a book and let me learn on my own.

One person may study the regulations on-line very carefully and ace the test. Another may daydream through the classroom course and just barely pass the test. Which is better prepared for the water?

I have emailed state lawmakers with my belief that the education requirement should be more strict. That is an appropriate action. Providing false information is not.

[Resident 2B]

BI,

There is a huge difference between self-study and an un-proctered exam. A person can learn much outside the classroom and do well in a structed examination setting. The issue about on-line exams was the lack of control over the examination setting.

I completely agree with you regarding self-study. Like you, I did a lot of self-study while I was in college.

My concern is that there are ways around the NH requirements and I would expect those that are pushing for stronger boating limits refrain from helping folks in getting around the current requirements. If a safer lake is the objective, boater knowledge proven by a controlled testing environment must be something with a high prioroty.

This has nothing to do with lies. It has everything to do with common sense. You are either on the side of a safer lake or you are not. Your postings seem to go from one side of the issue to the other.

I am for a safer lake because it is in the best interest of all users of the lake, those with power boats, those with canoes and kayaks, those that sail and those that swin in the lake. Proctered safe-boating exams are clearly a attribute that supports a safer lake. How you prepare for those exams is a personal issue.

R2B

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Now why would you want people to take the short cut to knowing the rules in New Hampshire? How many post have you done that speak to the safety issue?

Bear Islander is pointing out an unforeseen consequence of an effort to improve boating safety in New Hampshire. In addition to answering the thread question IMO Bear Islander is pointing out a problem area. Instead of trying to hide the problem it is brought to your attention. He's not playing ostrich.

I do not believe allowing internet certificates is a good idea, and I am sure that many will abuse the situation. However the question was how can you obtain a certificate. An out of state certificate is a legal option, to pretend that option does not exist, because we do not like it, is a lie. I value safety a great deal, but truth is an even more valuable commodity.
I agree with Bear Islander on this issue. It has been discussed in other threads. Bear Islander is not advocating this method of earning a boater education certificate, is he?

It makes no sense to some of us that NH turned off the NH Internet Boater Ed testing while still accepting Boater Ed certificates from states that that allow on-line testing (and are NASBLA approved). That just encourages people to take a test that does not address anything that is NH specific - like the 150' rule.

I have emailed state lawmakers with my belief that the education requirement should be more strict. That is an appropriate action. Providing false information is not.

I think this Boater Education Certificate loop-hole allows for more Capt Boneheads on the lake and there seems to be no big push to fix it. BI is doing his part by expressing his opinion to the lawmakers. If there were proposed legislation to change the loop-hole in the Boater Ed on-line testing situation I'll bet you would find BI promoting and posting his feelings on that subject.

The real question we should be asking is, How can this be fixed.

[Bear Islander]

Closing this loophole is a lot harder than it may seem. A few legislators responded indicating that reciprocity was the problem.

If we expect NH certificates to be valid in other states, then doesn't NH have to accept other states certificates.

However the real problem is that certificates from other states do not indicate if the test was proctored or not. How is a NH MP officer to know if the certificate they are being handed meets the NH standard or not.

This is a national problem that the NH legislature can not fix on it's own. The only other option is to not accept ANY out of state certificates. An extreme solution that could be unworkable or unfair.

New Hampshire has taken a stand for tough education standards, hopefully other states will follow. Pretending the loophole doesn't exist is not the answer. Disseminating deliberately incomplete information is a lie.

What if a hypothetical group told lies in order to pass legislation they think will make the lake safer? Is that OK? Obviously not.

[Gilligan]

In my opinion a lie of omission is still a lie.
However the question was how can you obtain a certificate. An out of state certificate is a legal option, to pretend that option does not exist, because we do not like it, is a lie. I value safety a great deal, but truth is an even more valuable commodity.

A noble position Bear Islander.

This is not like the speed limit thread where opinions and statistics are debated. Here we are just talking about facts. I don't like the safety certificate reciprocity we have now however I have no idea how to remedy the problem. As BI said, it is harder to change it than we might think it is.

Give him a break. Bear Islander can quote the law on the safety certificate even though he is outspoken and misguided about the need for more speed limits :D.


Safe boating for all.

[Skip]

Actually it would be fairly easy to ammend the statute and enhance the Safety Certificate.

Simply follow the same protocol we currently do with the motor vehicle code and require all New Hampshire residents to obtain a New Hampshire certificate.

We accept the fact, under the driver license reciprocity statute, that we will accept other States driver's licenses even though we have no control over other States driver education requirements. Hence the same with boater certificates. Its the cost of doing business.

However, the issue of not requiring New Hampshire residents to posess a New Hampshire boater certificate was just plain sloppy legislation.

So why not just go back and simply ammend the statute? Because once you get a law back before the House & the Senate no one can be sure what will happen to it when folks start tacking ammendments on to the bill.

Example? Once again I'll bring up the RSA regarding overnight mooring. Everyone at Safety knows that the current ban only applies to one specific classification of boat, even though that statue is misrepresented in both the training guides and information put out by the Department. But no one wants to revisit the statute as was attempted over a decade ago, because of the fear that an ammendment won't pass and the problem could become unmanageable once the public realizes the truth.

Kind of like the debacle that happened when Safety attempted to regulate swim rafts through the Adminstrative Code process and had its hand slapped by the Legislture.

Ah, politics in New Hampshire...you gotta love it! :D

[KonaChick]

Closing this loophole is a lot harder than it may seem. A few legislators responded indicating that reciprocity was the problem.

If we expect NH certificates to be valid in other states, then doesn't NH have to accept other states certificates.

However the real problem is that certificates from other states do not indicate if the test was proctored or not. How is a NH MP officer to know if the certificate they are being handed meets the NH standard or not.

This is a national problem that the NH legislature can not fix on it's own. The only other option is to not accept ANY out of state certificates. An extreme solution that could be unworkable or unfair.

New Hampshire has taken a stand for tough education standards, hopefully other states will follow. Pretending the loophole doesn't exist is not the answer. Disseminating deliberately incomplete information is a lie.

What if a hypothetical group told lies in order to pass legislation they think will make the lake safer? Is that OK? Obviously not.


Perhaps some hard decisions have to be made to deal with the problem then. An extreme solution that is unfair might be the only option we have to get this under control. Take the speed limit bill for example. If the bill passes NH residents who are convicted of speeding on the lake will have this infraction apply to their NH licenses. In my opinion extremely unfair but that's what was written into the bill and if it passes that's what I'll have to live with. Sometimes tough times call for tough measures.

[Bear Islander]

Good News

It seems that Massachusetts no longer gives out certificates for online courses. Perhaps more states will follow.

Interestingly the Mass Boater Ed site displays this warning

Online courses are for informational purposes only. Any certificates received via online courses with the exception of a certificate issued by the New Hampshire Department of Public Safety will not be honored by the Massachusetts Environmental Police.

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dle/courselist.htm

[Seeker]

I believe you're going to find that the majority of non-procrastinators be they residents or non-residents who do most of their boating here have taken the NH on-line course and obtained that certificate.
I thought the NH on-line course (w/o a proctored exam) was only good in NH. Is this wrong? I took it just to see how I'd do but didn't request the certificate as I had one from the USPS.

[dpg]

BI,

There is a huge difference between self-study and an un-proctered exam. A person can learn much outside the classroom and do well in a structed examination setting. The issue about on-line exams was the lack of control over the examination setting.

I completely agree with you regarding self-study. Like you, I did a lot of self-study while I was in college.

My concern is that there are ways around the NH requirements and I would expect those that are pushing for stronger boating limits refrain from helping folks in getting around the current requirements. If a safer lake is the objective, boater knowledge proven by a controlled testing environment must be something with a high prioroty.

This has nothing to do with lies. It has everything to do with common sense. You are either on the side of a safer lake or you are not. Your postings seem to go from one side of the issue to the other.

I am for a safer lake because it is in the best interest of all users of the lake, those with power boats, those with canoes and kayaks, those that sail and those that swin in the lake. Proctered safe-boating exams are clearly a attribute that supports a safer lake. How you prepare for those exams is a personal issue.

R2B

While the classroom setting is probably the best tool for truely learning, the truth is most people do and will forget. I have had the certificate for years and quite honestly probably forget well over 50% of what was taught. Anyone who took it years ago and says they do not is most likely full of it. :eek: I've never had a problem on the lake.....All the courses in the world can't teach common sense and manners.:D

[SIKSUKR]

I have had the certificate for years and quite honestly probably forget well over 50% of what was taught. I've never had a problem on the lake.....All the courses in the world can't teach common sense and manners.:D

We could probably say the same for motor vehicle courses too.I'm sure I couldnt remember most of the stuff on the test.One does however remember the important ones that are drilled home on us like speeding and DWI.The same could happen with boating if the safe passage law were forced in the face of all boaters.

[sa meredith]

As a very new boater (this will be my 3rd year, 24' bowrider), I feel compelled to post that I received my certificate via the internet, and yes, I looked up each answer as I took the test....but this indeed forced me to learn proper rules and safety. And I am very comfortable with my knowledge of proper navigation and safety. In fact, I am often shocked, when talking with other boaters on the lake, who look at me like I have two heads when I use a term like "stand on" or "give way vessel". They haven't a clue what the words mean...never mind who has "right of way" in a given situation.
Also, I took the time to learn to navigate with the compass, markers, and a chart...no GPS. I can't begin to count the number of people I find with that have been on the lake for years, but without their GPS would be lost forever. I guess my point is this...because someone earned their cert. on the 'net, does not mean they should not have your respect as being a safe boater.
I quickly learned that boating during the week was the only time I could count on other boaters knowing the correct course of action in any situation... But on weekends????? Good luck to you!!!!!!

[wehatetoquitit]

Thoughts while shaving: Before I took an on-line course and subsequent on-line exam, I checked with marine patrol and was told that the course had to be either NASBLA or CC approved. My course was, but I understand the concerns over the on-line course in general, and do believe that an "in-person" course and proctored exam are a must, and plan to take the course this summer, even though I have a certificate. Having said that, would it be a problem if stoped for a violation by the MP and issued a citation, one of the requirements (if you have an on-line cert.) in addition to the fine would be repeating the course or passing the proctored exam. If the recipient of the fine did not complete the course or pass the proctored exam, the fine would be severely increased. A second violation would then result in an impounded boat. This could, I think be implemented by the courts and might not require any additional legislation. Any how just random thoughts.

[sa meredith]

So, then, what would you say about a boater who is stopped for a violation but has taken the "classroom" test..."No, biggie! Thanks for playing. Have a great day now." ????????
The bottom line is this...every boater is responible for knowing proper safety, and the correct course of action in any given situation...reguardless of the method by which they learned. Don't think less of a captain who took the test on line. He (or she) may indeed be more safety conscious than you.
And finally...
I was thinking this summer it would be interetsing to carry a large sign on the boat (mostly on weekends) that simply read "150", and hold it up every time I get buzzed by some fool who hasn't a clue. Do you think they would even understand the meaning of the number?

[Bear Islander]

Taking the course on-line is still allowed in NH. It is only the test that must be taken in person.

[jrc]

...
I was thinking this summer it would be interetsing to carry a large sign on the boat (mostly on weekends) that simply read "150", and hold it up every time I get buzzed by some fool who hasn't a clue. Do you think they would even understand the meaning of the number?

A lot of people will know the meaning of the number but will swear to you that they were much further away. People have a tough time judging distance without references.

[sa meredith]

I guess a good "rule of thumb" would be...if you're not sure, increase your distance a little more.

[Kamper]

Thoughts while shaving: ... This could, I think be implemented by the courts and might not require any additional legislation. ...

The courts are limited to the senteces and sentence guidelines approved by the legislature. Increased sentences for repeat offenders is a good idea though (imo), as long as the first time punishment is enough to discourage most folks from wating until they get caught, to behave themselves.

[TimmyG]

I just completed the online course and took a Proctored exam in Nashua. The online course was easy, all the information is right there for you. The online exam is $25.00 and 75 questions. The proctored exam was free, and 60 questions focusing on safety and navigation. I missed 4 questions. They gave me a temp certificate and I sent in $10,00 to get my permanent.

Now I am just waiting for the ice-out. April 21 @ 4:35 pm.

TG

[Newbiesaukee]

I hope you are two hours late on Ice-out:):) Enjoy the Lake and keep safe

[John A. Birdsall]

would people think your selling your boat for 150.00 would they think that is too much concidering the price of gas?:emb:

I think the increase in the fines for second or third offenses is already in place if one takes their cases to court. I think now after I got my first and last ticket on the lake that next time I go to court instead of just paying it. Sometimes the 150' rule can be an entrapment like that boat (police) backing away from shore towards you and you can't see him at dusk and woops your in his 150' space.

I believe in the 150' rule, I think the people on the lake for the most part if this was followed we would have a 90% safer lake, what not 100% no because there are navigations to make that a few people have lost lower units on. And we have these displacement hulls that put out big waves that hide kayaks.

But it would be safe if we all follwed the 150' rule. I am glad that in different areas they have put bouys out marking where 150' is. Study them, it helps.

[Nauset]

And what some people don't want you to know is that if you get an online internet certificate in another state, it is good in New Hampshire.

Just read this on the Mass Boater-Ed web site:

Be aware that New Hampshire will not accept any card or certificate issued by a Massachusetts online course provider. If you plan to boat in New Hampshire, you should be certified by New Hampshire.

[froggy]

Also, I took the time to learn to navigate with the compass, markers, and a chart...no GPS. I can't begin to count the number of people I find with that have been on the lake for years, but without their GPS would be lost forever. I guess my point is this...because someone earned their cert. on the 'net, does not mean they should not have your respect as being a safe boater.
I quickly learned that boating during the week was the only time I could count on other boaters knowing the correct course of action in any situation... But on weekends????? Good luck to you!!!!!!

"But on weekends????? Good luck to you!!!!!!"

PERFECT writing. We also navigate with compass, markers, & charts (no maps!) and no GPS.
When I was a kid, in a coastal community, we boated and were taught right of way rules. We learned to respect the water and whatever body of water we were on. Respect for other boaters was taught.

I have been on this Lake for 40 years. The first time, I quickly observed a very big lack of respect. It's so bad, everyone I know who has a boat of any size, will never venture out on the Lake on weekends, from mid-June through Labor Day weekend. I saw people selling boats, where buyers asked no questions, and the sales persons were happy to send them on their way. No boater orientation in any way. I could not believe it!

In MD, my brother in law will navigate with GPS when fishing; BUT with him, six of us once sailed from Carolinas to Virgin Islands in 50' yawl, well before GPS days; he often used a sextant; we were ten days w/o seeing land!

[Bear Islander]

Just read this on the Mass Boater-Ed web site:

Be aware that New Hampshire will not accept any card or certificate issued by a Massachusetts online course provider. If you plan to boat in New Hampshire, you should be certified by New Hampshire.

That information on the Boat-Ed site is wrong.

Technically I guess you could say it's correct because is says you "should be certified by New Hampshire" not that you must be. But that is splitting hairs.

No matter what it says on Boat_Ed or anywhere else I can assure you that a NASBLA approved certificate, issued by another state, is good in New Hampshire. Several members of this forum have contacted high ranking members of the New Hampshire Marine Patrol and confirmed this beyond doubt.

[Joe Kerr]

Good News

It seems that Massachusetts no longer gives out certificates for online courses. Perhaps more states will follow.

Interestingly the Mass Boater Ed site displays this warning

Online courses are for informational purposes only. Any certificates received via online courses with the exception of a certificate issued by the New Hampshire Department of Public Safety will not be honored by the Massachusetts Environmental Police.

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dle/courselist.htm

:laugh: Bear Islander, really now, do you even need a boating certificate in Mass? We grown-ups down here don't need any certificates.

[winnilaker]

A lot of people will know the meaning of the number but will swear to you that they were much further away. People have a tough time judging distance without references.


I always tell people if you can read the bow numbers, you or they are too close. It may work out to be a little further than 150 but more is better.

[tis]

winni, that is what a MP officer told me once. Was that YOU???

[jrc]

By my calculations a person with average vision can read 3" letters at 172 feet so that's a pretty good rule of thumb.

distance in inches = 3 inches / tangent of 5 minutes of arc

Of course people with poorer eyesight have to come closer to read the numbers. Which means in congested high traffic areas, I should take off my glasses to maintain high speed. :D:D:D:D

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Wait, could it be this simple?

[ApS]

Wait, could it be this simple?
Very clever. Decal manufacturers will make those in any size, and those could be placed on kayaks and sails.

(But I like 150' Rules) :D

I made one that says, WIND TAX → for the registration decal on my unpowered sailboat. And also put the RSA, RSA 270 E4 on my kayak.... (An MP officer once wrongly ticketed me as having violated that RSA: a letter in support from NHMP Director Barrett is stored inside that kayak). :coolsm:

With that RSA on my kayak's bow, I watched as an MP put down his binoculars and wave the following season! :laugh: :cool:

"...By my calculations a person with average vision can read 3" letters at 172 feet so that's a pretty good rule of thumb..."
Calculations, like statistics, can be handy indicators: In the real world, boat numbers on moving boats are difficult to read at that distance even when conditions are ideal.

Another 150' rule of thumb is 11 Sunfish sailboats lined up end-to-end. :look:

[SBC]

By my calculations a person with average vision can read 3" letters at 172 feet so that's a pretty good rule of thumb.

distance in inches = 3 inches / tangent of 5 minutes of arc

Of course people with poorer eyesight have to come closer to read the numbers. Which means in congested high traffic areas, I should take off my glasses to maintain high speed. :D:D:D:D

What you may actually find is that the majority of folks with 20/20 or corrected vision can read the 3" bow numbers clearly at about 100-125'. I saw a clear demonstration of this in a Boating Education class. Only a few younger boaters and women are able to read those numbers clearly at 150'. Also take into account that that would be under ideal conditions, i.e. contrasting color to the hull, minimal water/sun glare/reflection, little or no steep rake on the bow, etc.

When in doubt, slowing down is always an option.