My neighbor's bubbler is keeping me off the ice

[89Mischief]

My neighbor two houses down from me is running two bubblers, high in the water 24/7. It's keeping his dock in open water but it is keeping me off the ice. My entire frontage is water and I can't access the lake to skate, fish or snowmobile. I left a note but he is never up here. Who should I contact to help me resolve this problem?

[JoeP]

It was my understanding that you need a local permit to have a bubbler, and in fact, most bubblers are illegal if the dock is seasonal and required to be pulled (at least in Moultonborough). So unless they are properly permitted, you probably have a few legal options if you feel a need to take that route.

[fatlazyless]

This is a job for the Kasco C-20 combination thermostat and 24 hour timer.

Before you go off the deep end and pull the plug on your neighbor's setup, drop him an email w/ a link to the $140. Kasco C-20. For what it is, it should sell for about $25., but that's the way it goes. No, Wal-Mart does sell a Chinese-made, knock-off .....yet.

If his setup is truly running 24-7, it should pay for itself, not make so much noise, and not extend the open water beyond his dock..

Setting the timer so the propeller runs for thirty minutes out of every two hours should be enough to maintain one's little ice-free zone. When the temperature is below 32, the thermostat switch is open, as well.


Someone I know once had the same problem as you are experiencing, and they fixed it by feeding a large trash bag into the turning propeller so that it got clogged and tripped the circuit breaker. No doubt, the trash bag was left behind by an inconsiderate ice fisherman.....wink-wink-wink.

Seriously, I think that's terrible and do not recommend it.

[Lakegeezer]

If the water is fairly shallow, try using a piece of plywood as a water diverter. If there is any ice at all, chop a slot wide enough for the plywood to fit through. Fit the boards through the slot and into the muck, leaving enough above the ice to hold it. This will set up the ice thicker on your side of the board and give you a few extra weeks at the end of the season. If all you have is open water, the dam idea may still work, if you can figure out how to keep it standing.

[MRJS]

My suggestion is to research exactly how to tweak your neighbor's equipment to reduce the de-icing footprint. If you have to buy a thermostat/timer, then so be it. Then go to the town hall and get the owner's full-time address, phone number, or email. Give him a call and let him know your plan on how to tweak the bubbler.

Also, a digital camera goes a long way to ease any worries. Taking pictures of before and after makes a long distance communication work.

Good luck.

[jrc]

This is the law, I don't know if it helps you. It prevents people from blocking any public access, does it apply to access from your private property?


270:33 Heating, Agitating or Other Devices in Public Waters, Safety Hazard. – No person shall put, place, operate or cause to be put, placed or operated in the waters of this state any so-called heating, agitating or other device which inhibits or prevents the natural freezing of water, or forming of ice, and impedes either the ingress or egress to or from ice by means of any public access thereto. If the heating, agitating or other device is placed anywhere else, nearby signs shall likewise be placed to warn of possible danger. Said signs shall read DANGER, THIN ICE and shall be of sufficient size to be readable at a distance of not less than 150 feet, and shall be visible from all directions and shall be equipped with reflectors and color-coded in a pattern unique for this purpose only. The department of safety is hereby authorized to establish said unique design and coloring and any homemade copies shall follow this design and coloring. The provisions of this section shall be enforced by any law enforcement agency under the direction of the department of safety pursuant to RSA 106-A:14 and the department of fish and game pursuant to RSA 206:26

[AC2717]

I think everyone is going nuts here, I would not do anything until I contact the owner, this is a simple issue and does not need the goverenmtn or city getting involved. In the mean time what is the deal if you walk or go a little further down to get on the ice until you are able to contact him, be a neighbor not a whistle blower

[dpg]

I think everyone is going nuts here, I would not do anything until I contact the owner, this is a simple issue and does not need the goverenmtn or city getting involved. In the mean time what is the deal if you walk or go a little further down to get on the ice until you are able to contact him, be a neighbor not a whistle blower

My thought exactly when I first read this post.

[Cristen]

We had the same problem in our cove. We just asked the neighbors if they would turn it down. Our neighbors were very cool, and turned it down so only there dock area was free of ice.

[dpg]

We had the same problem in our cove. We just asked the neighbors if they would turn it down. Our neighbors were very cool, and turned it down so only there dock area was free of ice.

Why do people run these, is it for dock damage?

[Weirs guy]

Its easy to classify this as no biggie until you realize your walking 3 streets over to get on the ice, with all your equipment, because someone doesn't know how to run a bubbler. We have a similar issue, though not as bad.

Most likely the neighbor would be happy to have you help them save money by not running it 24/7, and a call to city hall should be able to get their contact info. If they aren't willing to turn it down, pray a spring iceberg cleans out his dock!

[Argie's Wife]

If you really need to go out on the ice, come to my driveway....:D

There will be hot coffee in the house afterwards! :liplick:

[Grady223]

Yes, DPG, it protects the docks from ice damage due to the expansion of water as it freezes. This can be a tremendous force, especially when there are large expanses of ice. Piling and crib docks, which have their support left in the water over the winter, are particularly exposed. I had my bubbler shut down for 2 weeks last winter and lost 3 pilings - expensive!

[89Mischief]

Thanks for all of the helpful input. Not that I am interested in making this a serious legal issue, I guess that one of my main concern is whether or not this is an issue infringement on my property rights as a waterfront owner to have have unrestricted access to the lake when it freezes as I do in the spring/summer/fall when it is not. While I have attempted to contact the owner regarding this issue, I'm not sure that it will do a lot of good as he seems to rarely be up here in the off-season and not particularly interested in neighborly relations with me or others in our otherwise friendly neighborhood. The sizable two-berth permanent dock with pilings was built two years ago and I assume the bubblers were installed and are maintained by a professional company. This is the second consecutive year we have had this problem - prior to that our shore fully froze. One of the main problems is that this dock is at least 60 yards or so from the beginning of our property line and due to the currents caused by the constant, above water bubblers and winds coming off the bay, the water doesnt freeze along the 230 feet of my frontage for some 20 yards out which means open ice-access is completely unfeasible by way of my property or neighbors property. In my opinion this seems excessive for two bubblers to create such a significant area of open water (in my estimation 120+ yards along the shore going 20-30 yards out in some areas). Obviously an owner must protect his investment in property (i.e. a permanent dock), but this seems like inconsiderate and unnecessary overkill. We'll see what happens. Thanks for your continued ideas and input.

[codeman671]

We run two bubblers at the island, ours do not open up any where near as far as you mention. We are on a timer and thermostat setup. If the docks are 60 yards down from your property line I doubt there is too much to complain about. They definitely should not open that much space, I would say a lot of it has to do with the area and weather conditions as you mentioned.

Our bubblers are tied between our dock fingers, I can stand 30' away from them at any given time.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

If I was the owner, I would probably not be aware of how much ice was being impacted. Perhaps a few pictures showing how much overkill his pumps are creating would help your request for a "throttle back". He may realize that he can both be a good neighbor and not ruin his dock at the same time.

[ApS]

"...Who should I contact to help me resolve this problem...?"
There are only a handful of companies doing ice control around docks: amongst themselves, they probably do some "networking".

Are you on the southeastern side of the lake? Call Winnipesaukee Aquatherm at 875-3864 after 5PM with the location of the problem dock: perhaps he knows the manager and can contact him.

"...We had the same problem in our cove..."
Me too, but I don't see it as a problem. With three new McMansions, and five new docks with bubblers keeping the ice out 50-feet, I may just save some money and remove my circulators! :laugh:

"...Why do people run these, is it for dock damage...?
Yes:
It keeps the ice from damaging the dock in the winter.

No:
Last Spring's strong winds drove two square miles of iceberg against the docks on my shore, damaging all of them; what's worse, is that you could hear the wood splitting. :(

That said, the minks that dine on fresh water mussels appreciate having all that open water, and a full ½-mile of ice free shoreline! :emb:

"...I would not do anything until I contact the owner, this is a simple issue and does not need the government or city getting involved..."
I dunno, part I)

Perhaps piling docks (including mine) are infringing on peoples' winter use of the lake. The crank-ups are clearly the way to go for lower winter maintenance, lake access for winter residents, and energy costs at a time when energy matters. :cool:

I dunno, part II)

I didn't contact my absentee neighbor when I pulled the plug on his circulator—in June! :look:

[SAMIAM]

If I were 89Mischief,I would definately try a friendly approach first.Hopefully,he'll want to be a good neighbor and make the needed adjustments. If he does not respond.......you are within your rights to take matters into your own hands.You are being taxed for the use of the lake and to obstruct that use in winter or summer not something that you should tolerate.

[Mr. V]

The OP raises an interesting (shudder) "legal issue," namely: does the zealous bubbler conflict with any of his legal rights?

I would think not, but then the law is a constantly evolving tool.

You could check with a land use (water use?) lawyer, but it may be that precedent is tough to find.

[SIKSUKR]

I like the idea of sending a photo to show your situation first.If you don't get any satisfaction then I would look at the legal implications.

[Lakegeezer]

I like the idea of sending a photo to show your situation first.If you don't get any satisfaction then I would look at the legal implications.I haven't ever heard about any law or rules that suggest you have to keep your neighbor's waterline iced in. What would the legal argument be?

[Dave M]

I'm that up on Bubblers as I take my dock in. Are they directional or can they be. If directional could they be aimed in another direction or aimed at the shore line. Do the neighbors on the other side of this person come up. If not, aim it towards their direction.

Dave M

[SIKSUKR]

I haven't ever heard about any law or rules that suggest you have to keep your neighbor's waterline iced in. What would the legal argument be?

I don't know if there are any LG.That was mentioned in a previous post by another member and my point was that if there are legal steps to take,that should be a last resort.That's all.

[fatlazyless]

Here's a question that is related to managing your ice-free zone.

My little 12", Remington electric, $36.00, chainsaw just did not have what-it-takes to cut through eight inches of lake ice. It will cut through an 8" oak limb in about four minutes. I drilled a hole with the hand ice-auger, ran an extension cord, and even filed on the chain teeth to resharpen them up.....but.....it still wouldn't cut it....the ice....it was just too hard and the chainsaw barely made hardly a cut into that ice.

What will work? What type chain & saw does it take to cut it? Someone said a Sandvik hand saw will cut it?


:)

[Cristen]

Why do people run these, is it for dock damage?

Yes, the ice can shift a dock if you do not run a bubbler through the winter. We do not run one at our dock, and we typically need to adjust the dock once the ice is out.

[codeman671]

Here's a question that is related to managing your ice-free zone.

My little 12", Remington electric, $36.00, chainsaw just did not have what-it-takes to cut through eight inches of lake ice. It will cut through an 8" oak limb in about four minutes. I drilled a hole with the hand ice-auger, ran an extension cord, and even filed on the chain teeth to resharpen them up.....but.....it still wouldn't cut it....the ice....it was just too hard and the chainsaw barely made hardly a cut into that ice.

What will work? What type chain & saw does it take to cut it? Someone said a Sandvik hand saw will cut it?


:)

A bit off topic, but pertinent to FLL:

Back in my younger, more stupid days I remember using a Stihl Pro 26 chain saw to cut up the ice on the Lamprey River in order to open it up for watercrossing. It worked great, but what idiots we were!

[Weirs guy]

Me thinks this isn't the first time someone on Winni has had this issue and called city hall in 89Mischief's town. Perhaps a friendly call to them inquiring about your options is a good first choice?

I've gotta believe that most folk would WANT to know about the waste of money they have running 24/7, except for APS neighbor! What you should have done was left it running in June, you get a cheap jacuzzi and he gets a burned out pump! :laugh:

[John A. Birdsall]

While I can understand the problem of not being able to use my lakefront property during the winter, I would think going onto someone elses property and doing anything in the winter would put the person trespassing, in legal problems.

I think I would try the neibhorly thing to do and contact if possible. If he did not do anything or could not contact them, I would go to the law and see if I could get remedy. Let the law shut the thing down.

[T.H.E. Binz]

I had (and to a certain extent still have) a problem with a neighbor's recirc pump located about 200' from my property. After contacting the property owner (an absentee owner), he contacted his caretaker who subsequently made some modifications to the system. If the problem continues, I will contact the owner again and I'm sure he will make another attempt to reduce the impact of his recirc pump. If that fails, my understanding is that the next step is to contact the Marine Patrol. If they can't convince the owner, then I guess you go to court and get an injunction.

[codeman671]

The easiest way to handle a bubbler is to use a thermostat and a timer. You can control the circle diameter around the dock. As the ice is melting and no longer safe to be walking on, crank it up. This is when it is most effective, to help keep floes away. The circles around our dock are quite small, I can walk safely 40' away.