View Full Version : Ames Farm Being Sued
mcdude
10-29-2007, 10:57 AM
Ames Farm Inn being Sued by Town of Gilford
Ames Farm Inn named in suit
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<TABLE><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>By CUTTER MITCHELL
jmitchell@citizen.com (jmitchell@citizen.com)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The town is taking the owners of Ames Farm Inn to court, alleging that much of the expansion of the lakefront resort done over much of the past two decades occurred without necessary town permission.
In action filed in Belknap County Superior Court the town alleged that many of the Ames Farms Inn and Resorts operations have expanded and added to illegally, having done so without any official approval from the town.
Court documents show that the town is alleging four major violations: Improper expansion of parking and boat storage areas, the addition of eight docks, renting dock space to third parties, including businesses, and holding weekly fishing derbies open to the public.
See COMPLETE ARTICLE (http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071029/CITIZEN_01/710290034/-1/CITIZEN)here.....
Formula260SS
10-29-2007, 11:15 AM
That's not good news, Ames is one of the few places that offers a good access point to the lake for the general public. I have been going to Ames for many years and I have not seen any major changes, some minor but for the town to sue seems strange.
One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public, places like that are pretty much non existant and would be a great loss to loose any of what they offer. Hopefully they can straighten it all out.
Weirs guy
10-29-2007, 11:21 AM
"...alleging that much of the expansion of the lakefront resort done over much of the past two decades occurred without necessary town permission."
So let me get this straight, the town alleges this has been happening, in plain sight from a major road under there noses, for the past two decades??
:confused:
I smell an agenda!
GWC...
10-29-2007, 11:42 AM
One has to wonder
how many permits were required
for George Ames
to purchase the Union Meetinghouse
and
bestow it upon Gilford's historical society?
http://www.gilfordhistoricalsociety.org/tahs/buildings.htm
rickstr66
10-29-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm one of those Bass fishing guys. There is definitly an agenda here. There has been a long standing beef with a few home owners in the general area of Ames farm concerning Bass Tournaments. Bass Tournamenst have been going out of Ames farm for as long as I remember (early 90's). One of those few home owners is an attorney. He found some abscure law that says you can't hold an event "open to the public". 1st off about 95% of those tournament are not "open to the public" You must be a member of the organization running the tournament to enter. Because Don Ames didn't buckle under this persons pressure, this guy is out to get Don Ames. At the end of this summer Don informed the bass fishing crowd that we could no longer hold events out of his property.
These people were met with a couple of years ago. To appease them, tournaments were started later and moved thier starting point out away from shore. Weigh ins were staggered so as to not have too many boats in one area. All for naught. These people still arn't satisfied.
All the other stuff is just more piling on by these individuals.
It's a shame. Don Ames has always been a great person. The property has been there forever.
Here is a tip. If you don't like boat traffic, don't buy lakefront property. geeze!!!:(
Lake Lady 6
10-29-2007, 06:39 PM
There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.
Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.
If the reporting in the newspaper is correct Ames Farm did not obtain the proper permits for the changes they made. Everyone must apply for permits [before performing the work. Why does this make you feel that this is "more piling on" by the town?
Hopefully it will work out for all.
Here is a tip. If you don't like boat traffic, don't buy lakefront property. geeze!!!:(
:laugh: :laugh: I only wish I had that problem:rolleye1:
AC2717
10-30-2007, 07:00 AM
There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.
Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.
If the reporting in the newspaper is correct Ames Farm did not obtain the proper permits for the changes they made. Everyone must apply for permits [before performing the work. Why does this make you feel that this is "more piling on" by the town?
Hopefully it will work out for all.If what you speak of is true, this quote and the one before about the guy that is a lawyer, and all this was going on before he moved there, then he has no gripe as he moved into the problem, again if this is the case.
I moved into my cottage on Paugus Bay and every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night I have to deal with Club OG and the bass ratling my bed, keeping me up to late because I cannot sleep from the noise, and the sreeching tires at 1:30/2 and the screaming. There is nothing I can do they were a nightclub there long before I moved in, but at the same time they are violating the noise ordinance for the towns of Gilford and Laconia when I speak to the towns about it they just tell me to call the police and have it documented and eventually something might happen. If you read the town ordinances they are in clear violation and the towns have let them be this way for years, there is nothing I can do about it I was told.
Maybe I should sue them :emb:
Mr. V
10-30-2007, 10:02 AM
The point is not that someone dislikes Ames' operation; the point is that Ames is alleged to be in violation of the law, and has been for some time.
Is there some form of "grandfather law" applicable to shield him?
I doubt it.
What, just because he's ignored land use restrictions for twenty years, that makes it alright?
Maybe we should all blow off the law and do what we please.
Yeah, let's put a brothel at the Weirs, a casino in Lake Shore Park, a gravel mine and cement factory on Diamond Island, and oil wells everywhere.
Absurd?
Certainly.
People pay a lot of money to buy and keep their little slice of lakefront heaven, and they don't appreciate it when people diminish their enjoyment so that they can make a profit via nonconforming commercial activity.
It's just plain wrong.
Laws are meant to be obeyed.
The fact that an aggrieved complainant happens to be an attorney is irrelevant.
Let the judge decide who is right, and who is wrong.
This matter will not be resolved in the court of public opinion.
There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.
Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.When people buy lakeshore property that is adjacent to a public park (makes no difference if that park consists of grass or water), they should go into the purchase with the realization that the public is going to want to use their park (gasp!). Some of the public will even play music and make some noise (what a surprise). If you buy a home adjacent to a park with a ball field, you shouldn't complain when the kids hit the ball into your yard. Nor should you be able to sneak in a petition (because no one knew about it) to close that area of the park from any ball playing.
When people put a dock into a public water park, they should not be surprised when bass anglers fish the public water that their dock is in.
The lake belongs to everyone . . . equally. I pick up the impression that you do not like bass boats or bass tournaments. Do you think we should restrict them in some way . . . e.g., don't let them take off to go fishing until after 9:00 AM -- after most lakeshore property owners have had their first cup of coffee? Do you think that they are doing something illegal or inappropriate in their water park?
If people do not want any portion of the public to be around them, they should not live right next to a park . . . They should live far out in the country.
mcdude
10-30-2007, 05:24 PM
Yeah, let's put a brothel at the Weirs, a casino in Lake Shore Park, a gravel mine and cement factory on Diamond Island, and oil wells everywhere.
don't forget the cell phone towers...
...The fact that an aggrieved complainant happens to be an attorney is irrelevant.
Let the judge decide who is right, and who is wrong...
Boy, all these years in law enforcement makes me a jaded individual.
Somehow I just don't get a warm & fuzzy feeling when I imagine one lawyer sitting in judgement of another! :rolleye2:
Heaven
10-30-2007, 06:37 PM
Do you think that they are doing something illegal or inappropriate in their water park?
If people do not want any portion of the public to be around them, they should not live right next to a park . . . They should live far out in the country
You are not apples to apples. It sounds like the business has expanded it's operated ILLEGALLY, so yes that make it illegal.
secondcurve
10-30-2007, 06:39 PM
When people buy lakeshore property that is adjacent to a public park (makes no difference if that park consists of grass or water), they should go into the purchase with the realization that the public is going to want to use their park (gasp!). Some of the public will even play music and make some noise (what a surprise). If you buy a home adjacent to a park with a ball field, you shouldn't complain when the kids hit the ball into your yard. Nor should you be able to sneak in a petition (because no one knew about it) to close that area of the park from any ball playing.
When people put a dock into a public water park, they should not be surprised when bass anglers fish the public water that their dock is in.
The lake belongs to everyone . . . equally. I pick up the impression that you do not like bass boats or bass tournaments. Do you think we should restrict them in some way . . . e.g., don't let them take off to go fishing until after 9:00 AM -- after most lakeshore property owners have had their first cup of coffee? Do you think that they are doing something illegal or inappropriate in their water park?
If people do not want any portion of the public to be around them, they should not live right next to a park . . . They should live far out in the country.Dick:
There is a difference between folks using a park and a hundred or so Bass Boats taking off at full throttle at the crack of dawn. I think folks need to compromise and maybe getting rid of the Bass tournaments is a good place to start.
You want to ban bass tournaments? You are kidding . . . right? . . . right? :D
The vast majority of bass tournaments are bass clubs. The average size club in NH is 14 members which means there are 7 boats involved. There are only a few tournaments that have as many as 79 boats . . . none that I know of with 100 boats.
Would you ban bass tournaments of any size . . . or with 14 boats . . . or ? How about other fishing derbies . . . should we try to get rid of them too?
What else would you like to ban? How about boats with big displacment hulls? Of course there is already a plan afoot to get rid of the big performance boats and drive them into the ocean.
fatlazyless
10-30-2007, 08:37 PM
Something tells me that in two years time the Ames property will all be owned by a developer who will divide it all up into 1/2 acre lots for owners who can afford to build 11rm-3bth-3crgarg- wf w/dock, vacation homes.
Attorney fees, town penalties, and huge local property taxes will just be too much.
And then someone on this forum will reply that replacing the Ames Farm with a new homes subdivision is the 'highest & best use.' Funny how 'highest and best' can turn out to be' highest and worst use.'
Woodsy
10-31-2007, 10:03 AM
The town is alleging for the past 20 years or so Ames Farm has been operating somehwat illegally...
20 years later the town has a gripe? Who is kidding who?
The Ames family has been very generous to the town of Gilford. They pay an exorbitant amount of taxes, they have donated property etc.. Who cares if he stores boats on his property and hosts fishing tournaments? If thats what it takes to keep the property un developed and as nice as it is, then so be it!
I think the powers that be should tread very carefully... eventually the fight just isn't worth it... If I were Mr. Ames given all this crap, I would sell the property off (both sides) to some big name condo developer, pocket my multi-millions as I drive off laughing into the sunset while flipping my neighbors the finger... and let them wonder what 300+ condos will do to the neighborhood...
In all seriousness, tread lightly and be careful what you wish for. I think the weekend Bass tourney and some noisy boats beats a 300+ condo development hands down. The town should grandfather the existing operation as it is, and just make him get the req'd permits and variances.
Woodsy
I've been watching a similar battle in Hollis for the last few years. People built around a shooting club. The club has been there for 40 years but the new neighbors don't like the noise. The neighbors get a lawyer, do some digging. They find that the club might have cut some corners on some permits many years ago. Lo and behold the club is shutdown. Lots of lawyers and courts, it's open again. More lawyers and court and it's closed. Looks like the club is out of money so it will probably stay closed.
I'm oversimplifying this to make a point:
The people with the deeper pockets always win.
BroadHopper
10-31-2007, 11:06 AM
I remember a battle in Hudson, NH many years ago. A housing development went up next to the Hudson Speedway. The new neighbors wanted to shut down the speedway because of noise, air pollution, traffic. You name it. The judge ruled that the speedway was there first and that the new neighbors knew that the place exists. So they cannot shut down the speedway as it was there first.
Weirs guy
10-31-2007, 11:21 AM
What else would you like to ban?
Hows about banning people from moving "here" because they like it "here" and then trying to change "here"? I wonder if that would pass?
Looks like we've got another classic case of some of us thinking that THEIR lake should be used for quiet picnic's and sail boats, and that anything above a whisper is an inconvenience to THEM.
John A. Birdsall
10-31-2007, 03:00 PM
I don't see any big changes in Ames Farm for more than 45 years. I guess you could say that he has more boat storage on his property then he used to have. So I don't see any big or even small problem with that. Now as to the noise that them fishermen make. I have a suggestion, put some oil or grease on them fishing reels and the noise will not bother some people. Stay within the law with your boats recall the headway speed and 150' rule. Should not be a problem.
On the other hand would you like to be a fish and eating them poor worms that were doing nobody any harm? Spare the rod and saave the fish!:emb:
I think you could have a nut on both ends of the rod and have a Bud.:yawn:
Just Sold
10-31-2007, 05:55 PM
Did the Town of Gilford try and work with the Ames Family to get the proper permits, review with them the improper changes and violations. Did the town, in good faith, attempt to work things out before taking legal action????? That does not seem to be addressed here. I wonder what happened before the legal action took place.
"First things First the if they did not comply and laws, ordinances etc. were violated take appropriate action but always try and work with the property owner."
I do not have any problem with what I have seen going on at Ames Farm. I also have not used Ames Farm and its facilities. I have only been there one time a few years ago and my visit was very pleasant. I found Mr. Ames and his staff very friendly and accomodating.
It is refreshing that there is still a large privately owned parcel on this side of the lake that is not over crowded and so dense with condos or other development that the view from the water and road are lost.
To those who cry baby about the Ames's uses of their property I say you are the ones who would probably complain about your neighbors even in your home away from the lake. Seen it before and this rings of that type of situation to me. JMHO!!!!:D
I don't see any big changes in Ames Farm for more than 45 years.
It depends on your definition of big.
xltRod
10-31-2007, 07:06 PM
- remodel/expansion of the dining room/kitchen
- AC added to the dining room
- second bathroom added to dining room
- porch on front door (the one facing the street) removed
- ramp added for handicapped access to restaurant
- dinner went from one selection to full menu
- alcohol service
- discontinue alcohol service
- discontinue dinner service
- movies no longer shown in barn Saturday nights
- store expanded
- driveway from just past apple tree down to summer house paved
- several houses across the street converted from rooms to apartments
- Girls' cabin (lodging for non-local waitresses) stopped being used for that purpose, empty for years, remodeled to accomodate Donald's security business, since remodeled for rental to guests
- expanded boat storage in field
- gas sales discontinued
- boat rental discontinued (a "ski boat" at any rate)
- boat ramp added
- parking lot for trucks/trailers added in field
- fishing tournaments added
- cabin 17 added
- finger docks between ramps and main dock added
- diving board removed (can you guess why?)
- boat lift for Donald's boat added
- changes in sewer and water systems
- change in number of owners
- probably many more that I don't know about
Oh the horror!!!:eek:
Oh the horror!!!:eek:
Just making the point that there have been many changes over the years, not all for the better. It hasn't been a static entity. Perhaps if it were part of your personal history, you'd give a hoot. :mad:
There are a lot of misconceptions and misinformation in this thread, one of them being that the Ames branch of the family that owns The Farm purchased the building for the Thompson-Ames Society...they didn't.
"...Here is a tip. If you don't like boat traffic, don't buy lakefront property. geeze...!!!:(The word "noise" appears thirteen times in this thread so far. It's remarkable how little empathy comes from abusive traffic to those awakened by it.
And then they all wonder why they get "the bum's rush" off the lake. :confused:
rickstr66
11-01-2007, 08:12 AM
Like I said in my original post. ALL of the bass fishing organizations and Don Ames worked with this group of people. We started our tournaments later and out further (by the 2 black markers).
Like someone else said 98% of bass tournaments have less then 15 boats. There are probably a handfull (5) "big" tournaments a year. None over 80 boats. These events are especially aware of the situation and take extra care to be considerate.
The start of a bass tournament with 15 boats typically lasts less then 5 minutes. Numbers are drawn and boats leave the area in order of the number drawn. A boat cannot take off till the boat infront of them is on plane and a safe distance away. Like I said, it takes about 5 minutes to do, then we are gone and not to return till later in the afternoon.
Not sure if NH has a "quiet ordanance" but where I live, people can start working outdoors at 7 am. I.E running a lawn mower, chain saw or do construction (constant noise that does not go away in 5,10, 15 minutes).
As far as parking goes at Ames, what is the difference if 50 pleasure craft of all types show up there and park or 50 Bass boats do? I fished my 1st bass tournament out of Ames farm in 1992. They were going out of there long before then.
Who is to say what and when noise is unacceptable. I could argue that all boat traffic must stop at lunch and dinner times as to not disturb my family while we dine at our picnic table.
Whats next? Outlawing birds ? Don't you just hate those chirping birds outside your window at the crack of dawn?
Seaplane Pilot
11-01-2007, 09:32 AM
I think the powers that be should tread very carefully... eventually the fight just isn't worth it... If I were Mr. Ames given all this crap, I would sell the property off (both sides) to some big name condo developer, pocket my multi-millions as I drive off laughing into the sunset while flipping my neighbors the finger... and let them wonder what 300+ condos will do to the neighborhood...
Woodsy
I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres. Then he can sit back and laugh while watching the outrage of the neighbors and granola crowd who are now angry that yet another lakeside hill has been developed. Gilford claims that this has been going on 20 years, but they sure knew where to send the assessor and the tax bill for the last 20 years. This is truely pathetic.
idigtractors
11-01-2007, 09:51 AM
I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres. Then he can sit back and laugh while watching the outrage of the neighbors and granola crowd who are now angry that yet another lakeside hill has been developed. Gilford claims that this has been going on 20 years, but they sure knew where to send the assessor and the tax bill for the last 20 years. This is truely pathetic.
That all sounds fantastic for the Ames family, but what if the town and state is found to be correct in what they write up and they put fines and/or requests for making things back to the way they were and if the owner doesn't then state and town can stick liens on the property and then "No Sale" and possible cease and desist all activities involved in complaints.
Mr. V
11-01-2007, 10:00 AM
I'm with you Woodsy. Ames also owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 acres on the south side of Rt. 11. I think he should do exactly as you said - flip off the neighbors and the town, and sell this to some big hotel chain/developer that will put a condo development on the water and up the entire hillside on the 100 acres.
Do you seriously think he hasn't considered doing so?
FWIW, it could be that all this will blow over and a "win-win" situation might result if he responds reasonably to the suit, hires a good lawyer, and agrees to some form of legal compromise.
Maybe.
Had Ames Farm bothered to "do the right thing" in the beginning and attempted to go through the permitting process, none of this drama would be happening.
Then again, perhaps he/they knew that the chosen actions would not be allowed but the decision was made to go ahead anyway: should such chutzpah be permitted?
The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation.
After all, government is no more than "We, the People" taking collective action in a representative capacity.
...but what if...
Wow!
Hey folks...but what if...we all take a breather and before we speculate any further we let the Ames family follow the right to file a response to allegations that may or may not be true?:confused:
idigtractors
11-01-2007, 11:57 AM
That's the best thing said in 30 some odd threads. :laugh:
Woodsy
11-01-2007, 12:21 PM
I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.
My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!
Woodsy
fatlazyless
11-02-2007, 05:25 AM
Just a reminder that the neighbor/abutter to the Ames Farm is himself an attorney. Opposing an attorney in this type of an argument is very challenging because they have unlimited time, motivation, and intellectual resources to research and pursue their goal with no $200./hour legal bills. For the neighboring attorney abutter, it can become sort of a hobby as they sharpen and practice their legal skils in their own self-effort.
Lake Winnipesaukee has been a happy bass tournament and happy speed boat venue for years, so some type of compromise needs to be worked out by all sides. When you litigate, the lawyers become the 'reel' winner so it's better to work out a solution through a compromise..
Just Sold
11-02-2007, 06:11 AM
I assume that both sides of the argument have merit. No doubt the town felt they had a strong enough case to bring it court.
My point was be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!
Woodsy
Thanks, Woodsy.....This is my point as well.
ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.
and i am not an lawyer either
Rattlesnake Guy
11-03-2007, 12:04 PM
Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?
ok people i have been reading all of your posts from day 1
i am a direct abutter to this place and for the record i have lived there for over 17 years and what i have seen in that time is a man out of control doing what ever he wants to do inspist of the law. i feel the town has all the right to make him come into compliance just like any one else and please lets not just harp on the bass guys that is just the tip of the ice burg here.
and i am not an lawyer either
a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry
Joe,
Whats the rest of the iceberg?
i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.
GWC...
11-03-2007, 12:51 PM
i think the town has hit the nail on the head with the issue they have raised.
i feel that the ames family with the exception of don are very nice. but don can not continue the way he is going with the blatten disrespect for the town rules and regs.
Inquiring minds need to know...
How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront (http://www.amesfarminn.com/ames_history.htm) of what is currently referenced as Ames?
http://www.amesfarminn.com/ames_cabins.jpg
Waterbaby
11-04-2007, 09:01 AM
I have to wonder, after reading all of the posts here thus far, if Mr. Ames et al wasn't taking the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to request permission" route?
I have to wonder, after reading all of the posts here thus far, if Mr. Ames et al wasn't taking the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to request permission" route?
Uh-oh....
Here we go, speculatin' again.
Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name? :confused:
Uh-oh....
Here we go, speculatin' again.
Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name? :confused:
hey skip.
if you lived beside the ames farm i wounder if you would have the same attitude you post, i feel that any person is allowed to to what they wont to do with there property as long as it is within the law that you and i have to live by
joe
I have to wonder, after reading all of the posts here thus far, if Mr. Ames et al wasn't taking the "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to request permission" route?
you are so wright on that statment........
Inquiring minds need to know...
How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront (http://www.amesfarminn.com/ames_history.htm) of what is currently referenced as Ames?
http://www.amesfarminn.com/ames_cabins.jpg
and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think
GWC...
11-04-2007, 12:19 PM
and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think
Inquiring minds still need to know...
How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?
...lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word...
No Joe, the town does not have the last word. That right is reserved for our judicial system and only after both parties have been allowed due process to make their respective cases.
Let me repeat that Joe, the Ames family have a right to due process.
Mcdude brought forward an important issue that has an impact on the Lakes Region and one of its better known families. It has made us aware of a serious situation and allowed those of us interested to have a means of following this issue as it moves forward. Comments regarding that process and making us aware of new developments in the case are fair and pertinent.
Speculation as to what the family's thought process may have been or outright accusations that laws have been broken when none of us have even seen charges, let alone the results of mediation or a hearing, are what I believe an uneccesary attack made behind the anonymity of the internet.
No Joe, I do not live beside the accused. But if I did and I thought I had a real case I would keep my trap closed and allow the judicial process and the rights of the accused to move forward the way our State & Federal constitution allow.
Why?
Because next time it could be me (or you) and I would hope to expect the same decency from my fellow citizens!
gravy boat
11-04-2007, 03:21 PM
Fear of condo development should be a non issue. Should we let someone break the law "just in case" they retaliate in some way? That's absurd.
I agree with Mr. V when he said, "The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation".
If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." The law should not be bent for an individual/organization/business because he/they are part of town history, pays high taxes, or a celebrity. The law is the law. If you break it, you pay the price. And if you are caught AFTER breaking it, pay the piper and learn something from the experience.
GB
secondcurve
11-04-2007, 04:38 PM
Is anyone able to get the court documents that have been filed by the town of Guilford so we can understand how the town feels Ames Farm has violated the law? I believe these are public documents.
idigtractors
11-04-2007, 07:37 PM
don't forget the cell phone towers...
What cell towers????
Rattlesnake Guy
11-04-2007, 07:46 PM
Uh-oh....
Here we go, speculatin' again.
Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name? :confused:
I think that without speculation, this forum would be awfully dull and hardly worth reading. It is part of human nature and every news outlet I can think of.
Your comment, "perhaps you have additional insight" sounds an awful lot like good old speculation to me.
...I think that without speculation, this forum would be awfully dull and hardly worth reading. It is part of human nature and every news outlet I can think of...
Very true.
But there is a very thin line that separates idle everyday speculation from potentially harmful gossip. In my humble opinion that line has been needlessly crossed in several preceding posts.
Why the rush to accusation or judgement? We have a system in place that will eventually supply the answers some of us appear to want, can we show a little patience and let that process work before someone inadvertently causes damage to an innocent party?
This thread reminds me of all the times I've read when folks complain the print media runs a front page story when an individual is accused of wrong doing, and somewhere down the road when the charges are downgraded or dismissed the resulting story is buried on page 39! :(
fatlazyless
11-05-2007, 02:31 AM
Now, there's at least three different ways to look at the Ames Farm situation and as you know, Ames Farm has been there for over one hundred years.
For the Ames family, they are under the gun every year to figure out a way to feed the always increasing property tax monster. They probably wonder how, each year, they can afford to keep from having to break up and sell off sections of their farm property.
For the town of Gilford, they need the money to pay for everything, like salaries, the school system, a new high school, library and police station.
For the neighbors, they want to be able to enjoy their waterfront property as they themselves pay relatively big property taxes, but no where near as much as Ames..
And, on the waterfront, most of the assessed property value is usually in the land, and not in the buildings.
mcdude
11-05-2007, 08:30 AM
What cell towers????
see THIS THREAD (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3362&highlight=cell+phone+towers)
Weirs guy
11-05-2007, 12:32 PM
a typo on the years lived there 13 years sorry
So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?
Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.
I'm not a lawyer, and not taking one side or the other, BUT two things come to mind:
1) Statute of Limitations
2) Laches
both of which are meant to prevent harassment of one party by another party who "saves up" offenses to be used at a later time, when this extended time period does the most good for the accuser (such as waiting for the only defense witness to die), or does the most harm to the offender (such as waiting for someone to complete unknowingly building a house on your property, before you claim it yours).
So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?
Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.
Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.
LIforrelaxin
11-05-2007, 02:44 PM
Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.
This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....
On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.
I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:
1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....
And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......
This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....
On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.
I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:
1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....
And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......
no i didnt on all of the questions.....................................
Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.
I posted the list of changes because someone had posted there hadn't been many changes at The Farm over the past 45 years, which is incorrect. I was not indicating whether or not the changes needed permission. I'm sure some did and some didn't, depending on when the changes were made. Don't put words in my mouth.
It's very easy for people to bandy this topic about when they aren't directly related to the situation. That family and that place is part of my heritage and it's very difficult to see this situation unfold and for people to take a side when they really know nothing about what's going or the individual(s) involved. :(
fatlazyless
11-06-2007, 05:55 AM
Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving a terrific pancake breakfast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?
It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.
Recently, the Gilford Police Dept voted to join the Teamster's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.
So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?
Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving pancake breafast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?
It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.
Recently, the Gilford Polce Dept voted to join the Teamser's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.
So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?
what dose that statment have to do with not obeying the ruels
fatlazyless
11-06-2007, 07:08 AM
It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.
Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct cause and effect situation.
It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.
Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct case and effect situation.
look pal,
why dont you spend a little time and read the papers to find out all the facts before you take sides
idigtractors
11-06-2007, 07:28 AM
look pal,
why dont you spend a little time and read the pappers to find out all the facks before you take sides
By the above qoute, it appears that you are getting a bit upset and the fingers are going faster than the brain.:)
fatlazyless
11-06-2007, 07:31 AM
Lake Winnipesaukee has a long history as a bass fishing, speed boat, and water recreation area in addition to being the property tax base for central NH. As the building lots around the 200 mile waterfront have been 99.44% built-out, some compromises must be made to accomodate all the different users of Lake Winnipesaukee.
Lake Winnipesaukee has a long history as a bass fishing, speed boat, and water recreation area in addition to being the property tax base for central NH. As the building lots around the 200 mile waterfront have been 99.44% built-out, some compromises must be made to accomodate all the different users of Lake Winnipesaukee.
you may have a point there but that dosnt give them the right to disobey the laws that we all have to live by.i love fishing ,boating just like every one else but i have to obey the ruels.We all have the same problem about taxes .
Waterbaby
11-06-2007, 08:53 AM
Uh-oh....
Here we go, speculatin' again.
Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name? :confused:
I'm not speculating on anything, Skip, nor am I judging or accusing or anything else. I was just making a comment. And if that's what he did, there's no judgement on my part -- it's not my place to do so.
I have no "additional insight", and I really think it would've been alright for you to say "Mr. Ames" as I did.
Thanks for your speculation on what I posted. Have a wonderful day.
Mr. V
11-06-2007, 10:17 AM
Ames Farm is a vestige of a bygone era.
Very "old school," traditional, with little invested in the property by way of capital improvements (at least so it would seem).
Which I can certainly understand, as the owners have had to figure out a way to make the property pay for itself, plus yield a decent profit: otherwise, what's the point of owning a big chunk of beautiful lakefront, unless you are a gazillionaire who builds a Mcmansion and comes to visit occasionally for personal use?
Ames Farm, as currently structured, is a commercial endeavor, and they need to turn a buck.
If in fact Ames ignored the rules and / or bent the rules in order to save money, that would seem to indicate a flawed business model on the part of Ames Farm.
I would suspect that any scofflaw behavior was premised upon perceived business necessity and not on personal arrogance, but I really do not know.
Odds are quite good that a reasonable settlement to the cities' lawsuit can be arrived at, and Ames Farm can continue to operate, but Ames may choose not to.
This must be an embarassment, a black eye, and a provocative, festering sore for Ames Farm.
Were I the owners of the property, this could be the final straw to induce me to say "Bah, it ain't worth it!" and then decide to sell, brother, sell.
My families' property is near Ames Farm, and I would miss the view of the white cottages grouped on the beach, but it is their call, not mine.
Personally, I hope they can figure out a way to make it continue to work, but their costs of doing business are climbing (hello, property tax!), and it may have reached the point that it just isn't viable anymore for Ames Farm to try to operate their Business As Usual.
Cruel world.
Weirs guy
11-06-2007, 12:39 PM
Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.
Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.
If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.
Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.
If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.
thanks for your understanding
vrrooom
11-06-2007, 03:09 PM
I would have really like to see the town buy or make some arrangements with the Ames family, similar to the ones made with other farm owners in GIlford. The farm would be the last major piece of lake front in the town, and instead of a useless pond we would have been far better off to arrange with the Ames family to preserve the land and the site for the use of the town. Let the family continure to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only. Additonal Beach and launching facility would take the pressure of the current town beach and ramp.
Although some would have little to say about the permitting process on the lake I will share my expereinces in maintaining my breakwater. It costs me thousands in fees, and permits to maintain the rocks every few years.
fatlazyless
11-07-2007, 08:48 AM
The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Similarly with regards to Joe, the man doth mispell too much, methinks! Could all those mispellings be a lawyerly scheme to dumb down the forum readers thinking on himself.
Hey Joe, duh, say whatuth? :rolleye2:
The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."
and
"Cudgel thy brains no more about it, for your dull 'mule' will
not mend his pace with beating."
Adios, muchacho
idigtractors
11-07-2007, 12:25 PM
I would have really like to see the town buy or make some arrangements with the Ames family, similar to the ones made with other farm owners in GIlford. The farm would be the last major piece of lake front in the town, and instead of a useless pond we would have been far better off to arrange with the Ames family to preserve the land and the site for the use of the town. Let the family continure to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only. Additonal Beach and launching facility would take the pressure of the current town beach and ramp.
Although some would have little to say about the permitting process on the lake I will share my expereinces in maintaining my breakwater. It costs me thousands in fees, and permits to maintain the rocks every few years.
WOW, can you imagine how much the tax rate would be for the people of Gilford to try and make that a reality????? "Let the family continue to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only" Now how would they run the restaurant part and the cabins???
[QUOTE=fatlazyless]The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Similarly with regards to Joe, the man doth mispell too much, methinks! Could all those mispellings be a lawyerly scheme to dumb down the forum readers thinking on himself.
Hey Joe, duh, say whatuth? :rolleye2:[/QUOTE
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE SUCH AN --S
In a related issue, this ARTICLE (http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071120/GJNEWS02/711200016/-1/CITNEWS) in today's on-line edition of the Citizen covers a recent Gilford planning board meeting. One of the topics of discussion that night, the marina operations at Ames Inn.
fatlazyless
11-20-2007, 07:29 AM
In my imagination, most all of the income goes right back to the town for semi-annual property tax payments, every June and December. Just how much is Ames Farm's property tax bill?
If the Ames' prop tax has increased from $2800 to 8200/month in the last three years, which is very much a real possibility, it creates a lot of pressure. Pressure to increase their cash flow. So, how to increase the cash flow in order to cover the town's tax bll. What do they do to make the extra money?
In our unusual NH tax system, Senator Gregg can win an 850 thousand dollar powerball and the state gets a great big zero in tax revenue. But, go buy a McChicken sandwich and the state gets 8 cents tax as it's an 8% prepared food tax. Now, who has the better ability to pay, Senator Powerball, or Joe McChicken?
Isn't Ames Farm really all about the New Hampshire Advantage tax system at work here?
FLL, it's been over a year since the last McChicken, Gregg, Powerball reference, what's going on? :D :D
SIKSUKR
11-20-2007, 09:27 AM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.
Now, now SS, Less did invent that GW line he's been repeating lately.:D
fatlazyless
12-19-2007, 07:55 PM
Hot off the presses from this morning's Laconia Daily Sun, it's another gigundic, block-buster, earth-shattering, Lakes Region totally-relevant story. And no, you probably wouldn't be reading a story like this in one of the other papers. If it were not for the LaDaSun, all these local Lakes Region issues would just all go unnoticed. Three cheers for the Laconia Daily News....hip-hip hurray....hip-hip hurray, and one more time here.... a great big hip-hip hurray.....(get the message)!!!
...................................
Petition aimed at Ames Farm called 'spite zoning'
Gilford Planning Board will decide on Jan. 7 whether to recommend change along Rte. 11 to voters
By Adam Drapcho
The Laconia Daily Sun
GILFORD - The Planning Board held a public hearing Monday night on a petition-driven zoning amendment that asks voters to re-zone a section of the town's Resort Commercal district to Single Family Residential. They heard two sides of the story, but put off picking which side they believe to be right until their January 7 meeting.
The chunk of land in question is a 2,000- foot wide band that runs along the Southwest side of Rte 11, from the intersection of Highland Drive to the Alton town line. It entails about 335 acres, and the Ames family owns about 80 acres within the affected area. The land is directly across Rte 11 from the now controversial Ames Farm Inn.
Because the amendment to the zoning ordinance was brought forward by a petition, the Planning Board is only deciding whether to recommend the amendment or to not recommend it; the board cannot change one word of the amendment before it goes to the voters. As Planning Director John Ayer told the board. " It'll be on the warrant either way."
Riley Road resident Steve Nix spoke in favor of the zoning amendment. "A majority of this area is already built as residential homes," he said. He counted about 70 residential units in the area, and currently there hasn't been much if any commercial developement there. Any existing commercial operations would be "grandfathered" and allowed to continue, Planning Board members stated.
By re-zoning the area to single family residential, Nix stated, it would prevent the scenario wherein an unsightly commercial operation, such as a boat storage faciliy, could be built in the middle of a residential neighborhood. "It makes no sense from a planning standpoint...What has happened on the ground is not what it is zoned for."
Highland Drive was chosen as the Northwestern border of the rezoned area, Nix said, because commercial developement exists beyond that.
Rod Dyer, an attorney representing Ames Farm Inn, said the petitioned amendment is motivated for all the wrong reasons, and is an attempt by the neighbors of Ames Farm Inn to take out some of their frustrations relating to perceptions of improper busness practices. Ames Farm Inn is currently being sued by the town for expanding the operation's use of the land beyond what was described in a site plan review dating back to the 1980s. "Let's be frank," Dyer said, "this petition wouldn't be in front of you if we hadn't had the brew-ha-ha with Ames Farm that is currently before the Planning Board."
Dyer quoted a portion of the town's Master Plan that states that the town should encourage economic developement and the services that make Gilford a friendly place for visitors. He said the re-zoning would be a "Trojan Horse" that would, by removing commercial zoning and replacing it with residential, ensure the future of Gilford as a "bedroom community."
Furthermore, Dyer said that "spot zoning" - rezoning exercises that entail small, specific parts of town - is generally suspect. Due to the association with ill feelings of some in town towards Ames Farm Inn, Dyer said it isn't even "spot zoning' but "spite zoning."
"It simply would be inappropriate for this matter to go forward wih the recommendations of the Planning Board," Dyer said. He added that he would request "findings of fact" from the board if they did recommend the amendment.
Board members were conflicted over this issue. As member John Morgenstern put it, "These people built houses, they knew they were in the Resort Commercial zone, now they want us to change it. I have a problem with that. On the other hand, I live in this zone, and I would like to see it all residential because it is residential."
Chairman Polly Sanfacon said "I am really on the fence with this myself. It's a lot to digest. I want some time to think about this."
Adam Drapcho
Laconia Daily Sun, December 19, 2007
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
What's interesting to me is that
Gilford uses the SB-2 style of voting on town issues so when it comes to the town deciding how it feels about a zoning change, it has a warrant vote. Voters get to read and decide in the privacy of a voting booth with a paper 'warrant explanation' right alongside their choice of a yes or a no vote. Polls typically are open from 7am -7pm.
Meredith uses the Town Meeting style of voting on a zoning change issue. In the open town meeting room, people get to express their opinions about the proposal, and afterwards a public vote is held with a show of hands. In the case of very close votes, a hand count is taken.
And the difference between an SB-2 poll and a Town Meeting poll can result in a very different vote result ...............how about that?....................hey remember the voice of Howard Cosell.,,,,...huh?
jeffk
12-19-2007, 10:26 PM
I'm not sure of all the legalities but I thought it was considered a no-no to make zoning changes while development proposals were on the table for an area. The whole idea of zoning is to establish a set of rules to work within. A business can buy land and know it can develop it for the zoned use. If a town could willy-nilly change the zoning it would be unfair to the people who invested in the business in good faith. Is Ames Farms planning development?
We are having the same kinds of discussions in Hudson, NH where a large development is planned and neighbors want to change zoning to block it. As I understand it, zoning changes are not allowed to stop a specific development that is under consideration.
NHskier
12-20-2007, 08:03 PM
JeffK is correct. Once a formal application has been submitted to the local planning or zoning board it comes under the regulations in place at that time.
If however a development is still just under pre-application discussion then a change to regulations can be made. Once new site plan or zoning changes are formally posted those changes are immediately in effect and remain so until the actual vote by townspeople. Unless voted down the regs then continue in effect.
NHskier
GWC...
03-13-2008, 01:06 AM
Interesting zoning warrant vote in Gilford: (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=GILFORD%3a+Hayes+edges+Goodh ue+in+close+selectman%27s+race&articleId=b3bd009f-71ce-45b7-8d35-b3924fd22458)
A petitioned zoning warrant article change which would have rezoned a large chunk of property from Highland Drive to the Alton town line from resort-commercial to single family residential was turned down 619-1,113.
Google Map... (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Highland+Drive,+gilford,+nh&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.224889,77.695313&ie=UTF8&ll=43.563445,-71.338778&spn=0.009236,0.018969&t=h&z=15)
mcdude
05-07-2008, 08:30 AM
Another Public Hearing Scheduled......
AMES FARM UPDATE (http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080507/GJNEWS02/124892270/-1/CITIZEN)
Mr. V
05-08-2008, 09:39 AM
I wonder why an application to allow single family residential was voted down?
It seems to me that those who voted it down are, with few exceptions, themselves living in homes on lots zoned single family residential (just an assumption).
While I can certainly understand the abutters / locals objecting to expansion of the current commercial use to include, e.g., a marina, the rationale to oppose conversion to single family residential is less clear.
If voted down, would that mean Ames must continue the current use, even if he's tired of it and wants out?
Would the only viable option for him be to sell out, with the understanding that the new buyer has to continue the current use (cabins, restaurant, boat launch) without change?
It just seems pretty harsh.
What am I missing here?:confused:
If voted down, would that mean Ames must continue the current use, even if he's tired of it and wants out?
Would the only viable option for him be to sell out, with the understanding that the new buyer has to continue the current use (cabins, restaurant, boat launch) without change?
One thing you're missing is the other owners whose opinions must be considered. Don's mother is still alive, he has a daughter, he has a grandchild(ren), he has two brothers, he has a niece who has a child, and he may have distant cousins who are still minor owners (not sure of the status on the last one).
I know his niece Peggy wants the Farm to maintain its current character and wants her child to be able to enjoy the experience of the place. She was very gracious in her request to the townspeople that they not vote for a change in zoning...perhaps that had an influence.
mcdude
10-08-2008, 07:22 AM
From the Citizen
Ames Farm will be reviewing its options after the Zoning Board of Adjustment narrowly decided that certain activities at the lakefront resort can no longer be allowed.
The Gilford ZBA granted the appeal of the Planning Board decision of the site plan for Ames Farm that was issued earlier this summer.
"Naturally, the Ames family is disappointed," their attorney, Rod Dyer, said Tuesday.
Board members Scott Davis, Donald Chesebrough and Chairman Andrew Howe voted for the appeal to be granted, while Charles Boucher and Robert Dion voted against it.
The board concluded that the nonconforming use of Ames Farm will not be grandfathered, leaving the Ames family without a valid town approval site plan for its operations.
The group of neighboring property owners presented its case at the last meeting to overturn the site plan that was approved on July 7. The neighbors are questioning uses of the property by the general public and whether they have the right to keep current operations running.
"The Planning Board can't interrupt zoning ordinances and it should have never been approved in the first place," said attorney Paul Bordeau, who represents the neighboring property owners. "The process of making a zoning ordinance lies within jurisdiction of the zoning board."
The main debate in the Ames Farm case is whether the Ames family used the property for public use before 1962, when the town first adopted zoning. The Ames family argued that the property was in fact used as an acting marina.
"According to Bob Ames, he remembered collection money at the boat ramp from boaters," said board member Charles Boucher.
Dyer presented his testimony at the last meeting in hopes that the appeal would not be issued, but it ultimately did not go in favor of the Ames family.
CLICK HERE for COMPLETE ARTICLE (http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081008/GJNEWS02/710089824/-1/CITIZEN)
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/data/531/medium/amesfarmaerial.jpg
There is a large difference between normal boat traffic and fishing derby boat traffic. For instance the noise these boats make and the speed with which they leave Ames Farm. The changes you mention i.e. starting later, fewer boats leaving at one time, etc., were welcome changes for most waterfront residents.
Prior to this change a large number of bass boats were leave Ames Farm wide open and race off to their favorite spot - the noise was extremely loud and offensive - all before 7 a.m. on a weekend.Remember hearing about this back in the 70's and 80's a lot ..even got a decibel limit on the lake.
What is it people don't understand about why and how excessive noise is unfair.
When you hit the gas at 7 am you are imposing your will to go fishing :rolleye2: on hundreds maybe thousands of people within earshot.
I dont know many people that enjoy lots of noise or like to be woken up early.. do you ?
Anyone that would question why others would want the lake to be the quiet peaceful place it normally is.. have never been here when it is.
mcdude
10-09-2008, 08:02 AM
From the Gilford Steamer
ZBA denies Ames Farm Inn site plan
BY ERIK ZYGMONT
EZYGMONT@SALMONPRESS.COM
On Monday, the Zoning Board of Adjustment overturned a previous Planning Board decision, striking that board’s approval of the Ames Farm Inn site plan. The ZBA voted 3-2 to grant an appeal, made by abutters, against the Planning Boards previous decision to allow Ames Farm to continue its business plan. The decision came after opposing arguments from Ames Farm and abutters were heard last month. Attorney Paul Bordeaux, representing the appellants, argued that the Planning Board had “overstepped their realm and stepped into the realm of the ZBA” by approving the Ames Farm Inn site plan. ZBA members Scott Davis, Don Chesebrough, and Andy Howe voted to grant the appeal against the Planning Board’s previous decision. Robert Dion and Charles Boucher voted against the appeal. Chesebrough argued that though the Ames Farm Inn had historically operated as an inn, with the accessory use as a boat launch, the boat launch aspect of the business had expanded into a primary use. He called the inn’s boat launch a “full-blown marina.” “You can’t have a use expanded as far as they have and call it an accessory to an inn,” Chesebrough said. Davis said that though he felt that Ames Farm was in an ideal spot to offer boat launch services, he also did not agree with the Planning Board’s decision. Both Chesebrough and Davis noted a 1988 site plan cited by the Planning Board, they said, as justification for the inn’s current business practices, including the boat launch. “We need to look at the Planning Board’s process and the decision they’ve made,” Davis said. Boucher argued for upholding the Planning Board’s decision. Though the appeal was made by abutters, Boucher said that he received 30 letters in favor of allowing Ames Farm Inn to continue its current operations. Boucher read aloud a letter from resident David Pierce, which called the inn “a piece of the past in our midst.” Pierce’s letter also asserts that noise generated at Ames Farm is minimal, lower than noise levels generated by some private residences, and that the Ames Farm property is aesthetically pleasing and well-kept. “The temptation to sell this property will be too great, and then they will have something more malignant to deal with,” read Boucher. Boucher said that “it’s better to deal with the devil you know than the devil you don’t know.” He added that future development on the site could be detrimental to Gilford, and “here’s a place where we can prevent that from happening.” ZBA Chair Andy Howe said that he agreed with Chesebrough’s argument, that the boat launch had expanded well beyond an accessory use of the inn. “You go down there on weekends and it’s packed,” Howe said. He added that the amount of parking available at Ames Farm indicates a departure from the inn’s primary use. “There’s just tons of parking; it’s amazing,” Howe said. “There’s no way that the primary use of the cottages and inn would warrant that much parking.” The Ameses may request a rehearing with the ZBA if they so choose.
Dick,
You forget that a growing percentage of lake front property owners own the water. Any use of their lake that does not conform to their useage is not in the public interest and must be stopped at once.
BroadHopper
10-13-2008, 06:00 PM
Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.
How about when the developer of Samoset condominiums filled in a dry river bed on the south side of the property to build more condos. One spring, there was so much water running off from from Belknap/Gunstock Mtn that it washed away some of the Samoset properties and the abutters as well. What a mess! My father warned the town but the town figured a dry riverbed is no big deal. To this day, I'd rather deal with a landowner than some high powered developer who will go out of his way to walk all over the neighbors and the town.
rickstr66
10-14-2008, 09:44 AM
Remember hearing about this back in the 70's and 80's a lot ..even got a decibel limit on the lake.
What is it people don't understand about why and how excessive noise is unfair.
When you hit the gas at 7 am you are imposing your will to go fishing :rolleye2: on hundreds maybe thousands of people within earshot.
I dont know many people that enjoy lots of noise or like to be woken up early.. do you ?
Anyone that would question why others would want the lake to be the quiet peaceful place it normally is.. have never been here when it is.
two different stories:
Couple 1 buys a house near an airport, couple 2 buys a house next to a highway. Soon both couples are complaining about the noise the plains and cars make. HUH??????:confused:
two different stories:
Couple 1 buys a house near an airport, couple 2 buys a house next to a highway. Soon both couples are complaining about the noise the plains and cars make. HUH??????:confused:
Although one family I know has owned property near Ames Farm Marina since the 20's ! Should they sell and move away so they can have peace and quiet at the lake ? And the claims that shorefront owners are selfish is the pot calling the kettle black IMHO.
rickstr66
10-16-2008, 09:10 AM
Although one family I know has owned property near Ames Farm Marina since the 20's ! Should they sell and move away so they can have peace and quiet at the lake ? And the claims that shorefront owners are selfish is the pot calling the kettle black IMHO.
I never said shorefront owners are selfish. Diselusioned, maybe. Out of touch, possibly. As for the family owning their property since the 20's, how did they deal with the instalation of roads and the growing increase of auto traffic over the years? Did they move to have the roads near them closed or moved to a different location? If I bought a house in a location where mine was the only house for 200 yards in either direction then some years later someone built 100 yards from me, then some years later someone built 50 yards from me then 25 yards from me and I did not like that, YES I would move. I am the one unhappy, not the other people who moved into the neighborhood I live in. Who am I to impose my will on others?
Times change. The Lake is busier today then it was 10 years ago. It was busier 10 years ago then it was 20 years previous ect, ect. You all bought property on the BIGGEST lake in New Hampshire. You are shocked and upset that people actually use the lake for the purpose for which it was intended for ALL?
Is there a "quiet" ordanence in NH? If so what are the time constraints? Could a homeowner decide to mow his/her lawn at 7am, 8am and not be in violation of said law?
GWC...
10-16-2008, 09:35 AM
Although one family I know has owned property near Ames Farm Marina since the 20's ! Should they sell and move away so they can have peace and quiet at the lake ? And the claims that shorefront owners are selfish is the pot calling the kettle black IMHO.
Apparently, the train whistle being blown at the Ames Farm station never bothered them - original family members.
Would that make them the kettle or the pot - current family members?
Woodsy
10-16-2008, 12:03 PM
WOW... some people never cease to amaze me! You buy property next to a commercial business, then expect the business to change to suit you?
Whats the big deal over Ames Farm? So what if he lets the public launch boats there for a fee? So what if he hosts Fishing Tournaments? Thats like the people who move to Weirs then complain about Bike Week...
He has to pay some exorbitant taxes on that piece of property, and lets face it those small cottages arent going to cover his tax bill, never mind make him a small profit!
I think people need to be careful what they wish for... If I were the Ames family I would seriously consider selling out to a BIG developer for some big $$$! Then watch as the crabby neighbors spend all thier $$ battling a big development company with DEEP pockets...
Just think of how that are would look with 200 or so condos, a much bigger dock footprint.... all that lovely traffic and the noise that comes with all those people using thier motorcycles, boats & jetski's!
or better yet, go completely agri and go back to cows & pigs.... STINKY!
Woodsy
A person who buys a house adjacent to a public park (grass) should not be surprised that the general public will actually use the park . . . sometimes at night and early in the morning. Some of the public will make noise. Sometimes the kids in the adjacent ballpark will hit a ball into this person's yard. Should the person hire a lawyer in an attempt to restrict the hours that the park can be open . . . or limit the kids' ball playing in some way?
What difference does it make if the public park is made up of grass or water? Winnipesaukee (like all lakes) is held in public trust by the state of NH. The person who buys a house adjacent to this water park should have known before he bought the house that it was located adjacent to a public park and the likelihood was high that the public would recreate on it in many different ways. If you like to fish, the chances are you will want to be on the water at sunrise because that is when the catching is best. Outboard motors make some noise. Didn't the guy who bought the house know this?
Look, the lake is not valuable because someone built a McManson on its' shoreline . . . the guy's house is valuable because of the lake . . . and the lake belongs to the all of the public . . . equally.
Don't complain if me and my buddies want to take off from Ames Farm (or anywhere else on the lake) and go bass fishing at 6:30 AM. You shouldn't be surprised. Nor should you complain when 4 or 5 boats get together in "your" cove.
There are pros and cons to living on a lake. Please be aware of both.
gravy boat
10-16-2008, 07:31 PM
Dick,
When fisherman stop trolling where my children swim, I'll be a bit more tolerant. I don't care if anybody fishes...just stay away from swimming areas -- out of common courtesy. In the last four years we had two cases of discarded fishhooks stuck in the feet (in 3 to 5 feet of water within 20 feet of shore between where the boats are moored and the shoreline).
You're right -- the water is public. But common courtesy should be shown by all, whether you pay taxes to live there or you pay a launch fee to have access.
But don't complain to me if you and your buddies encounter a water balloon at 6:30 am after waking me up or if you're too close to where we are swimming. ;-)
GB
rickstr66
10-17-2008, 09:07 AM
Dick,
When fisherman stop trolling where my children swim, I'll be a bit more tolerant. I don't care if anybody fishes...just stay away from swimming areas -- out of common courtesy. In the last four years we had two cases of discarded fishhooks stuck in the feet (in 3 to 5 feet of water within 20 feet of shore between where the boats are moored and the shoreline).
You're right -- the water is public. But common courtesy should be shown by all, whether you pay taxes to live there or you pay a launch fee to have access.
But don't complain to me if you and your buddies encounter a water balloon at 6:30 am after waking me up or if you're too close to where we are swimming. ;-)
GB
Let me start out by saying you are correct. Common courtesy is needed, when people are actually swimming. Home owners property ends at the waterline. If no one is on their dock, rafts, beach then fisherman have EVERY right to fish anywhere they want except for inside marked swim areas that are PERMITTED. Just because you put a line across the front of your property 50 yards from shore does not make it a legal swim area. Your swim area is a privlede, just like my ability to fish. Yours doesn't superceed mine and vise versa.
Bass, for the most part are a shallow water fish. They live on or near the shoreline. That is where fisherman have to target them. If I see a family using thier dock/beach I skip on by. If its 8am and you are in your house and I feel a fish may be in and around your beach, I'm fishing.
Think about this. What if every homeowner on a lake said "not in front of my house" ? There would be no place for anyone to fish.
All swim areas should have swim buoys and swim lines . . . and for good reason . . . it makes it very apparent that that area is a swim area and for boaters to stay clear. Without these buoys and swim lines there is no way for boaters to know what is a swim area and what isn't.
Under no circustances should anglers troll inside swim buoys/lines.
About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking :)
All swim areas should have swim buoys and swim lines . . . and for good reason . . . it makes it very apparent that that area is a swim area and for boaters to stay clear. Without these buoys and swim lines there is no way for boaters to know what is a swim area and what isn't.
Under no circustances should anglers troll inside swim buoys/lines.
About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking :)
So we all need to start stringing lines and floats out front because its obvious the bassers dont care about anyones privacy at all. I have nothing against fishing either but a bunch of overgrown kids flippin lures at the boats, dock and shoreline in front of houses is ignorant to say the least.. grow up :rolleye2:
Mr. V
10-17-2008, 08:47 PM
About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking :)
Don't bet on it.
http://www.balloonbazooka.com/movies.html
(Defending the Dock)
gravy boat
10-18-2008, 06:44 AM
All swim areas should have swim buoys and swim lines . . . and for good reason . . . it makes it very apparent that that area is a swim area and for boaters to stay clear. Without these buoys and swim lines there is no way for boaters to know what is a swim area and what isn't.
Under no circustances should anglers troll inside swim buoys/lines.
About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking :) Yes, I'm joking. I don't launch them at fisherman.
My nephews have better aim.
:rolleye2:
xltRod
10-18-2008, 03:10 PM
I would think about your balloon gun if I were you. I know a few guys that carry paintball guns just for people who get pushy.:eek:
SteveS
10-18-2008, 05:11 PM
I consider the Ames family to be among the most effective preservationists on the lake. They manage to protect the hillside behind the cottages from development, while still providing easy access to the lake for boaters of all kinds who are not fortunate enough to own their own piece of paradise. The cottages represent one of the few (& becoming fewer) options for a traditional week at the lake for a family, unless one is lucky enough to be able to afford a "camp" of it's own. Many local & island kids get a chance for a great summer job experience that money can't buy, learning responsibility & good work habits from a family that's been successful for years & really know what they are about.
And Ames does all this preservation work without fund raising of any kind! They actually pay taxes! Go ask the LRCT folks how easy it is to preserve a ridge line - they worked their butts off for years to raise the money to preserve the "Castle in the Clouds" land, and now they work their butts off to keep it running.
I don't mean to suggest that the Ames family's intention is or is not to be preservationists, nor do I care. But I do care that when I look at the ridge line I don't see another Samoset. When a fisherman pulls a bass out from under my dock I feel a little guilty "owning" my bit of lakefront, knowing that no matter where he comes from, as long as his boat floats he has access to the lake I'm lucky enough to spend 100 days a year on.
Thanks for reading my rant!
Steve
rickstr66
10-19-2008, 09:36 PM
So we all need to start stringing lines and floats out front because its obvious the bassers dont care about anyones privacy at all. I have nothing against fishing either but a bunch of overgrown kids flippin lures at the boats, dock and shoreline in front of houses is ignorant to say the least.. grow up :rolleye2:
Don't you need a permit to put in a swimline and markers? What privacy are we invading? How dare we pass by your property I guess? What's ignorant is assuming YOU OWN the water infront of your house. Your property ends at the waterline. Period. You have no rights to anything else. If anything a fisherman extends you a curtiousy by not fishing public waters adjacient to your property. Read your deed.
It has nothing to do with "growing up". It has to do with what the LAW is. You don't want to see fisherman pass by your property? Sell and buy in the mountians.
chipj29
10-20-2008, 07:54 AM
So we all need to start stringing lines and floats out front because its obvious the bassers dont care about anyones privacy at all. I have nothing against fishing either but a bunch of overgrown kids flippin lures at the boats, dock and shoreline in front of houses is ignorant to say the least.. grow up :rolleye2:
Privacy? The lake is owned by all of us, up to the high water mark.
Woodsy
10-20-2008, 09:15 AM
Privacy? The lake is owned by all of us, up to the high water mark.
Well... to an extent anyway! LOL!
Waterfront Property owners do have certain Littoral Rights granted to them that the general public does not. For example they can install docks, rafts, moorings and a swim line.
I think a little courtesy goes a long way. Fisherman do have the RIGHT to fish in front of houses etc... but that doesnt mean they have to be rude about it... If someone is out sitting on thier deck @ 6am with a cup of coffee... quietly move on to the next house.
if your a waterfront property owner, and you dont want guys fishing in front of your place, petiton the DES or whoever is required and put up a swim line. No need to get angry or twisted about it. You bought property next to a public park...
I think most everyone on the lake is nice, extremely courteous and helpful. Its always the one or two that arent that get everyone in an uproar!
Woodsy
chipj29
10-20-2008, 10:14 AM
Well... to an extent anyway! LOL!
Waterfront Property owners do have certain Littoral Rights granted to them that the general public does not. For example they can install docks, rafts, moorings and a swim line.
I think a little courtesy goes a long way. Fisherman do have the RIGHT to fish in front of houses etc... but that doesnt mean they have to be rude about it... If someone is out sitting on thier deck @ 6am with a cup of coffee... quietly move on to the next house.
if your a waterfront property owner, and you dont want guys fishing in front of your place, petiton the DES or whoever is required and put up a swim line. No need to get angry or twisted about it. You bought property next to a public park...
I think most everyone on the lake is nice, extremely courteous and helpful. Its always the one or two that arent that get everyone in an uproar!
Woodsy
Woodsy, I agree with you 100%. There are rights and laws...and there is common sense and courtesy.
I was just saying that the privacy thing is not a law or a right in this case.
Lakepilot
10-20-2008, 04:14 PM
We have a cottage on the lake and the fishing must be great in our area because there are lots of fishing boats just off our dock and in the cove. I'm glad they get to enjoy fishing right off our dock - and sometimes beside it. I'm glad we get to enjoy the lake also. I have never felt like our privacy was invaded or that they were doing something wrong.
The only time I got antsy was when we watched a mother bass have little ones right beside our dock. She patrolled her spot like there's no tomorrow. A fisherman came by one day and threw his hook in and we hoped mom kept her mouth shut. Unfortunately she didn't. She was caught and thrown back in. She nwas caught 2 other times we know of and thrown back in. Apparently bass don't learn to keep their mouth's shut.
SteveS
10-20-2008, 06:17 PM
I consider the Ames family to be among the most effective preservationists on the lake. They manage to protect the hillside behind the cottages from development, while still providing easy access to the lake for boaters of all kinds who are not fortunate enough to own their own piece of paradise. The cottages represent one of the few (& becoming fewer) options for a traditional week at the lake for a family, unless one is lucky enough to be able to afford a "camp" of it's own. Many local & island kids get a chance for a great summer job experience that money can't buy, learning responsibility & good work habits from a family that's been successful for years & really know what they are about.
And Ames does all this preservation work without fund raising of any kind! They actually pay taxes! Go ask the LRCT folks how easy it is to preserve a ridge line - they worked their butts off for years to raise the money to preserve the "Castle in the Clouds" land, and now they work their butts off to keep it running.
I don't mean to suggest that the Ames family's intention is or is not to be preservationists, nor do I care. But I do care that when I look at the ridge line I don't see another Samoset. When a fisherman pulls a bass out from under my dock I feel a little less guilty "owning" my bit of lakefront, knowing that no matter where he comes from, as long as his boat floats he has access to the lake I'm lucky enough to spend 100 days a year on.
Thanks for reading my rant!
Steve
Oops, I meant "a little less guilty". Perhaps I should read the post first?
mcdude
10-22-2008, 08:20 AM
Not All Neighbors Are Abutters
In the never-ending saga surrounding the Ames Farm Inn, the print media consistently lumps together neighbors and abutters as those opposed
to the activities that were granted by the Gilford Planning Board at their
meeting on July 7 and subsequently overturned by the Zoning Board of Adjustment on Oct. 6. This representation by the media, albeit innocent,
gives the impression that those who own property contiguous to the Ames property, abutters, take issue with the use of the resort. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those in opposition to the activities at Ames Farm are not abutters but rather people who own property in the neighboring
area. As a point of fact, the abutters who I have spoken with have no issue with the uses set forth by the Planning Board. Simply put, all abutters are neighbors, but not all neighbors are abutters. The distinction is clear and of great importance in that abutters and non-abutters are diametrically opposed in their thoughts relative to the operation of the Ames Farm, as approved by the Planning Board.
David Pearse
Gilford
Don't you need a permit to put in a swimline and markers? What privacy are we invading? How dare we pass by your property I guess? What's ignorant is assuming YOU OWN the water infront of your house. Your property ends at the waterline. Period. You have no rights to anything else. If anything a fisherman extends you a curtiousy by not fishing public waters adjacient to your property. Read your deed.
It has nothing to do with "growing up". It has to do with what the LAW is. You don't want to see fisherman pass by your property? Sell and buy in the mountians.
You keep reitorating that waterfront ownership ends at the high water mark.. Ive never said anything to the contrary.
Heres what im not ok with!
Taking all females off their beds every spring. Catch kill and release! Ive been to several weigh ins where MOST of the Largest bass were belly up!
Lures jigs and line all over the boat lines, canvas, dock and logs in the water.
Ive fished this lake since I was a kid in the 60's.. Bass fishing isnt what it used to be, wonder why :rolleye2:
If you ask me a bunch of overgrown kids have turned a relaxing hobby into an extreme sport to pump there egos.
If you want to fish right in front of my house thats fine , but dont expect to be welcomed with open arms. And keep your lures off private property !
rickstr66
10-26-2008, 01:28 PM
You keep reitorating that waterfront ownership ends at the high water mark.. Ive never said anything to the contrary.
Heres what im not ok with!
Taking all females off their beds every spring. Catch kill and release! Ive been to several weigh ins where MOST of the Largest bass were belly up!
Lures jigs and line all over the boat lines, canvas, dock and logs in the water.
Ive fished this lake since I was a kid in the 60's.. Bass fishing isnt what it used to be, wonder why :rolleye2:
If you ask me a bunch of overgrown kids have turned a relaxing hobby into an extreme sport to pump there egos.
If you want to fish right in front of my house thats fine , but dont expect to be welcomed with open arms. And keep your lures off private property !
1.Let me try and educate you on a couple things. Those bass you see sitting on beds are the MALES. The females lay their eggs quickly and leave. The male is left to guard the nest. Fishing for bass on nests is LEGAL and is done during a period of time when it is strictly catch and immediate release. No putting any fish in a livewell.
2. Bass caught in tournaments have about a 97% survival rate on average. Do some die? Yes, but in reality we are allowed to catch, kill and keep 5 bass per person per day. So at 97% that would mean 3 out of 100 bass will die compared to 100 out of 100 if we did what we are legally allowed to do. In the tournaments I have been in ( over 500 probably) someone is always wiling to take home the fish that don't make it and feed their family with them. The fact that we practice catch and release should tell you all you need to know about how much bass fishermen care about the fisheries they fish.
3. Bass fisherman are damed if they do and damed if they don't. When we do make an errant cast, do we go and attempt to retrieve the lure on what you clearly have indicated is PRIVATE PROPERTY? If we do try this we get grief. If we cut the line and leave the lure we get grief. What are we to do?
I have an idea, have all the land owners take out all docks, swim lines and boats. Then we will have nothing to snag our lures on;)
4. You fish your way , I'll fish mine. Last I checked we lived in a country that allows that.
5. I'll be sure to let you know I think you are #1 when you give me grief for doing what I am legally allowed to do.:D
M/V_Bear_II
11-02-2008, 09:29 AM
4. You fish your way , I'll fish mine.
But you're only allowed to do that on Webster Lake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chaubunagungamaug#The_name)!
mcdude
06-24-2009, 09:14 AM
As a result of zoning board decision, it was concluded that Ames Farm was not legally grandfathered as a public boat launch and will not be an option for boats to use this summer.
Source... The LACONIA CITIZEN (http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090624/GJNEWS02/706249860/-1/CITIZEN)
fatlazyless
06-24-2009, 09:37 PM
Cannot say with any certainty but the closing of the Ames' Farm Inn, twenty dollar, launch ramps is probably one good reason why the numbers of boats out on the water appears to be diminished. Seems like maybe Ames had a good following of people dedicated to fishing including NH Fish & Game Dept and people really liked it and enjoyed the different Ames' amenities such as open space, big green grassy field, nearby parking for car & trailer, cabins, inn, pancake breakfasts and the whole Ames' 'Olde Hampshire' experience........boo-hoo.....now I'm missing Ames' and I never even used it or went in there?
Airwaves
06-24-2009, 10:36 PM
Dunn also received phone calls asking about the use of Ames Farm this summer as a public boat launch. As a result of zoning board decision, it was concluded that Ames Farm was not legally grandfathered as a public boat launch and will not be an option for boats to use this summer.
"All changes to regulations are designed to reduce the pressure on this place [Glendale Docks]," said Dunn. "We're just hoping for warm, sunny days now."
I am confused as to how the loss of Ames Farm as a public boat launch will reduce pressure on Glendale????
I am confused as to how the loss of Ames Farm as a public boat launch will reduce pressure on Glendale????
I think it's the fault of the writer. If you put the last paragraph, which has nothing to do with the Farm, before the Ames Farm paragraph, it makes more sense (which is what I've done below).
"The new regulations are designed so residents and taxpayers will not have to compete with the guests," said Dunn. "Some are happy, while others are not, since they might see it being an inconvenience for their guests."
"All changes to regulations are designed to reduce the pressure on this place [Glendale Docks]," said Dunn. "We're just hoping for warm, sunny days now.
Dunn also received phone calls asking about the use of Ames Farm this summer as a public boat launch. As a result of zoning board decision, it was concluded that Ames Farm was not legally grandfathered as a public boat launch and will not be an option for boats to use this summer.
Mr. V
06-25-2009, 10:34 AM
I guess the question to be asked is: Without income from boat launching fees, does Ames Farm still have a viable business model?
And if not: what next?
Mee-n-Mac
06-25-2009, 08:42 PM
So now one has to wonder what will happen. I can see the ads now ... "Beautiful waterfront condo's, choose from 100 units, nice sandy beach and private access for boats."
Airwaves
06-26-2009, 12:12 AM
Then poor writing and editing aside, it still bodes the question with a reduction in accessability at Glendale and the loss of Ames Farm, who wins?
trfour
06-26-2009, 02:11 AM
Lets take the problem at hand out the equation. Political roads leave us at odds. Lets solve this problem. It is so easy to forget that there is a world out here, many people involved, that would like our guidance as well, a reminder again of the Global influence of Our times.
Lake Winnipesaukee Rocks, Please let us keep ahead of our times!!
Terry
EZ-Pass
06-26-2009, 04:46 AM
So now one has to wonder what will happen. I can see the ads now ... "Beautiful waterfront condo's, choose from 100 units, nice sandy beach and private access for boats."
Boy wouldn't the town LOVE that. I bet there wouldn't be any difficulties getting permits for that as the town will want the income from all the taxes.:)
VtSteve
06-26-2009, 06:20 AM
Then poor writing and editing aside, it still bodes the question with a reduction in accessability at Glendale and the loss of Ames Farm, who wins?
Like everything else, it takes time, but generally speaking there are no winners when things like this are decided. You get a group that doesn't like bass boats and tournaments, then you lose the access. So if limited access was their goal, they win.
It used to be that many regulations were directly targeted at keeping the lake clean and safe. Most of the local and state attention the last decade has been targeted at making Winnipesaukee a more limited resource. None of this and none of that. I'm not sure who got the cat's ear that led to the "victory" over Ames launch status, but it would be interesting to see if they do anything on the lake at all.
There's a lot of very selfish people out there.
Woodsy
06-26-2009, 06:58 AM
The Nuke....
I would love to see the Ames family sell out to some big name developer for millions, and have him put in 100-200 condos on both sides of the street... beach access & boat launch! and with that kind of waterfront you could probably get a few permanent docks in too!
Unintended consequences! Bass boat tournaments or a few hundred people 24-7 with jetski's & boats? You win a battle over bass boats but you lose the war! Your property value drops and you have to deal with LOTS of People, noise & traffic!
Retards!
Woodsy
gtagrip
06-26-2009, 09:47 AM
Very well said Woodsy! I would love to see the samething happen! With regards to "Retards!" Couldn't have said it better my self! :)
Thanks,
GTAGRIP(NH vanity plate)
SIKSUKR
06-26-2009, 10:05 AM
The way the statement was worded by Dunn was that the ramp was not available to the public this summer because they found that the public ramp was not grandfathered.That does not mean that Ames can't apply for permission to use it legally in the future.We'll see.
Kamper
06-26-2009, 11:48 AM
Idly curious...
Does anyone know if this affects people renting the cabins too? Or is it just drive up users?
Wolfeboro_Baja
06-26-2009, 12:20 PM
The Nuke....
I would love to see the Ames family sell out to some big name developer for millions, and have him put in 100-200 condos on both sides of the street... beach access & boat launch! and with that kind of waterfront you could probably get a few permanent docks in too!
Unintended consequences! Bass boat tournaments or a few hundred people 24-7 with jetski's & boats? You win a battle over bass boats but you lose the war! Your property value drops and you have to deal with LOTS of People, noise & traffic!
Retards!
Woodsy
Very well said Woodsy! I would love to see the samething happen! With regards to "Retards!" Couldn't have said it better my self! :)
Thanks,
GTAGRIP(NH vanity plate)While part of me agrees and would LOVE to see 100+ condos (complete with docks, boats and associated noise!) go in at the Ames Farm property as revenge to the neighbor that started all this, I'd really rather see it remain the way it is and get the usage of the public launch ramps restored. In my opinion, it was the best public launch facility, hands down. If that access goes away permanently, I'll be very disappointed. :(
The way the statement was worded by Dunn was that the ramp was not available to the public this summer because they found that the public ramp was not grandfathered. That does not mean that Ames can't apply for permission to use it legally in the future. We'll see.This is what I'm hoping for! Get the other permit problems taken care of, apply for a permit (or whatever) to return the launch ramps to public use and everyone will be happy! Well, maybe not the nasty neighbor that started this mess but I'LL BE HAPPY (and anyone else that used to use the Ames Farm ramps on a regular basis)! :)
Come to think of it, the nasty neighbor's probably hoping for ee a developer come in after all; then he can sell his piece of property to said developer for a hefty sum!! :rolleye1:
Wolfeboro_Baja
06-26-2009, 12:25 PM
Idly curious...
Does anyone know if this affects people renting the cabins too? Or is it just drive up users?
As far as I've heard, it's just the out-of-towners driving up to launch that are affected; renters at Ames Farm can still use the ramps while they are renting there.
As far as I've heard, it's just the out-of-towners driving up to launch that are affected; renters at Ames Farm can still use the ramps while they are renting there.
Why not dedicate a cabin or two, and have a boat launch special. $20 for a 15 minute stay, just long enough to launch or load your boat? You would just have to formally rent the room (& pay the 9%) :laugh: :laugh:
Why not dedicate a cabin for two, during daylight hours, and have a boat launch special. $20 for a 15 minute stay, just long enough to launch or load your boat? You would just have to formally rent the room (& pay the 9%) :laugh: :laugh:
FLL is already there. :)
He's the one on the nearest porch—in the rocking chair—behind the metal cash box!
:D :D :D :laugh:
EllyPoinster
06-27-2009, 05:34 AM
FLL is already there. :)
He's the one on the nearest porch—in the rocking chair—behind the metal cash box!
:D :D :D :laugh:
Singing "(boat) trailers for sale or rent. Rooms to let fifty cents . . ."
TiltonBB
06-27-2009, 07:29 AM
There is usually a way around most rules.
Why not sell memberships to your "exclusive" boat launch club for, say, $20.00?
That way the ramp is not open to the public it is a private facility, limited to members only.
The ski clubs in North Conway have been doing a similar thing for years. They have large open bar parties for all of the members of local ski clubs and the state told them that they couldn't charge a cover because they were then in the nightclub business and selling alcohol without a permit. Each club started selling "invitations" to a private party and got around the regulations. That was true in the 70's and 80's, I'm not sure it is true now.
Then again, it is nicer here with fewer boats!
1.Let me try and educate you on a couple things. Those bass you see sitting on beds are the MALES. The females lay their eggs quickly and leave. The male is left to guard the nest. Fishing for bass on nests is LEGAL and is done during a period of time when it is strictly catch and immediate release. No putting any fish in a livewell.
2. Bass caught in tournaments have about a 97% survival rate on average. Do some die? Yes, but in reality we are allowed to catch, kill and keep 5 bass per person per day. So at 97% that would mean 3 out of 100 bass will die compared to 100 out of 100 if we did what we are legally allowed to do. In the tournaments I have been in ( over 500 probably) someone is always wiling to take home the fish that don't make it and feed their family with them. The fact that we practice catch and release should tell you all you need to know about how much bass fishermen care about the fisheries they fish.
3. Bass fisherman are damed if they do and damed if they don't. When we do make an errant cast, do we go and attempt to retrieve the lure on what you clearly have indicated is PRIVATE PROPERTY? If we do try this we get grief. If we cut the line and leave the lure we get grief. What are we to do?
I have an idea, have all the land owners take out all docks, swim lines and boats. Then we will have nothing to snag our lures on;)
4. You fish your way , I'll fish mine. Last I checked we lived in a country that allows that.
5. I'll be sure to let you know I think you are #1 when you give me grief for doing what I am legally allowed to do.:D
I used to bass fish until I realized what a friuitless pursuit of enjoyment it was.. Foul hook a fish in the eyeball then put it back in the lake and hope it survives with one eye or a broken lip etc.. Try snokeling with them.. Stir up the bottom a little and they will follow you around, you get to see them up close in their natural environment without injuring or killing them for an ego boost..We realy enjoy the few bass that nest and live in front of our place please move on #1
lawn psycho
07-04-2009, 08:09 PM
It's been about 5 years since I posted on here and I have created a new "handle". Funny that it took about 5 minutes of reading to catch up with all the usual rants:)
After reading this thread, what stands out to me is how things are done in NC where major watersheds and bodies of waters have NO development of any kind. Search Falls Lake and Jordan Lake in NC. Perhaps NH should just claim emminent domain and in one swift move, all the belly aching will end. I am actually serious when I say that I don't think anyone should be allowed to own shoreline property on Winni. Disclosure: I have 2 friends who own lake property and have had this discussion.
The post above about invading someone's privacy by boating on the lake is simply ridiculus. I think a couple hundred boats anchored close to the abutters shoreline for a few weekends would drive him insane:D
If I were the Ames family I would be making sure his complaing abutters have dotted every "I" regarding their land use, septic locations, setbacks, tree clearing (you can get old and new aerial sureys for comparisons), etc.
Ames is 100% appropriate for the area. I am empathetic about the early morning noise if there are large number of boats leaving at the same time. I would think they could do staggered starts or later starts as a compromise. However, my reading of the articles leads me to believe that the Town grand poo-bahs had to claim religion when someone brought a violation to their attention. One would think Ames would have tried in parallel to be conforming since this first started as a back-up to his claim but there's no way to know what transpired. I don't fish but have launched my bowride there a few times before I started renting a slip and nothing I have ever seen would indicate they are any kind of nuisance.
As far as attorneys, for every winning side there is a losing side. Essentially means the law "profession" is capped at a 50% success rate ;)
kara1
07-07-2009, 12:01 PM
That's not good news, Ames is one of the few places that offers a good access point to the lake for the general public. I have been going to Ames for many years and I have not seen any major changes, some minor but for the town to sue seems strange.
One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public, places like that are pretty much non existant and would be a great loss to loose any of what they offer. Hopefully they can straighten it all out.
One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public
mcdude
07-22-2009, 07:42 AM
from the Citizen
End of boat launch at Ames Farm hits nerve
Gilford:
<SCRIPT>document.title = unescape("End%20of%20boat%20launch%20at%20Ames%20Farm%20hits %20nerve") + " - Fosters";</SCRIPT>
Tuesday, July 21, 2009
GILFORD — The town says it might take action by voters to resolve the issue of whether members of the general public can go to Ames Farm to launch their boats.
A release from the town said it has received "an overwhelming number of phone calls about the boat launching situation at Ames Farm.'
Prompted by the inquiries, Town Administrator Scott Dunn wrote, "It is hoped that Ames Farm will take the initiative to work with various town officials to resolve this problem in time for the 2010 boating season, but ultimately a solution will probably depend upon a town meeting vote."
Launching of boats into Lake Winnipesaukee by the general public has been prohibited since the Zoning Board of Adjustment ruled that such an operation was not a permitted use at Ames Farm because it is situated in the single-family residential zone. The Planning Board voted to allow boat launching as a grandfathered use, but the ZBA found the Planning Board had exceeded its authority in making such a finding.
As for alternative sites, the town suggested interested persons contact other establishments in the town, "such as Fay's Boat Yard or Silver Sands Marina, but additional information may also be found on the Internet."
Too bad most of the folks using the launch are not able to vote in Gilford
Chowdaguy
07-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Every time I see something like this I think of an old Chinese proverb:
In a town with one lawyer, the lawyer goes broke.
In a town with two lawyers, both prosper.
Wolfeboro_Baja
07-22-2009, 10:30 AM
Launching of boats into Lake Winnipesaukee by the general public has been prohibited since the Zoning Board of Adjustment ruled that such an operation was not a permitted use at Ames Farm because it is situated in the single-family residential zone. The Planning Board voted to allow boat launching as a grandfathered use, but the ZBA found the Planning Board had exceeded its authority in making such a finding.
Is it just me or does this sound like we're watching a P-ssing match? :mad:
What bothers me the most is Ames Farm will probably end up being closed to the public permanently and there goes the BEST public access to the big lake!! I'll bet those shorefront and island property owners that think their lake is already too crowded are getting excited at that possibility!! I've got news for them; it's not YOUR lake, I'm a NH native resident, I have rights too!! :fire:
I wonder if they could (or would even consider) selling the rights to the launch ramps to the state (like selling development rights to farm land to prevent development)? Could be interesting...............:eek:
fatlazyless
07-22-2009, 03:57 PM
Selling development rights to the State of NH would probably only get done if the Ames family were willing to sell for just one dollar.
In about 1930, the Wellington family of New York City sold their 100's acres Wellington State Park property on Newfound Lake, which has a 1600' long natural beach, to the state for one dollar.
And a similar deal occured when the state aquired Ellecoya State Beach from the Ellecoya. In exchange for 48 LL Bean wool blankets, two cases of Jenkins scotch whisky and ten scratch tickets, the state came back with the deed to beautifull Ellecoya State Beach.
Maybe the Lakes Region Conservation Trust can raise 20-million from bass boaters and then close off Ames Farm to all except for natural wood dugout canoes, paddled by granola eat'n paddlers, and carved from 100% organically grown trees on Timber Island?:laugh:
Kamper
07-23-2009, 04:57 PM
Is it just me or does this sound like we're watching a P-ssing match? :mad:
What bothers me the most is Ames Farm will probably end up being closed to the public permanently and there goes the BEST public access to the big lake!! ...
If Ames wants to really get the town Psst! off, they should have a "free" ramp day. I doubt the law prohibits openning private property as a good-will gesture to your fellow citizens!
Mr. Moyer
07-23-2009, 06:05 PM
This reminds me of the people who moved into new condos and homes in East Boston and Winthrop a few years back and actually had a petition to close down one of the runways at Logan. Someone needs to tell these folks that Ames Farm was letting people drop in long before many of these homeowners owned there. I agree with the earlier post, that says they will get what they deserve with about 2000 condos as neighbors with about 2000 full time boaters. oh and as the construction occurs on the condos over 5 years there will be many an early morning where the hammers and drills are running. But I'm sure they will sue over that as well.
As for the poster who mentioned that all of those folks aren't gilford taxpayers, they are correct, but they are all dropping money into gilford and the lakes region. I am sick and tired of we lakes region residents pushing away revenue when we need it most. As we keep out all of those folks who spend, our costs stay the same or increase as do our tax bills.
It is childish and all will lose in this battle except the attornies, as usual
Have fun!
Mr. V
07-23-2009, 06:49 PM
Someone needs to tell these folks that Ames Farm was letting people drop in long before many of these homeowners owned there.
Sorry, but I respectfully got to say that I truly believe that YOU ARE WRONG on this.
This isn't a "coming to the nuisance" case.
The family who beefed Ames has been there for a l-o-n-g time.
And what the heck, if Ames was running a legal and legit operation there'd be no problem.
They aren't, there is, and "That's that."
It is childish and all will lose in this battle except the attornies, as usual.
Well, the last complainant is a lawyer, so there you go.
codeman671
07-23-2009, 08:47 PM
One would think the town would work with an establishment like Ames to keep the access available to the public
Why would the town care? Gilford is not making any money from them other than property taxes. Taxes on the business ends up at the state or Fed level. Island owners are going to get there one way or the other, with or without Ames Farm.
I own a business in Dover. Dover sees nothing from me.
Mr. Moyer
07-23-2009, 11:03 PM
Codeman,
This is exactly why the town of Gilford should care. The increased boaters, Bass fissherman etc, will spend their money in town at Patrick's, having breakfast, buying fishing gear eating at waldo peppers just as an example. As for the comment about islanders getting their anyway. I can't imagine that many islanders use a drop in spot you need to pay each time. At least I don't know of any. Most islanders either keep their boat on a slip/mooring or have a designated drop-in spot with their island. regardless I get your point on the taxes going to the local area.
In any case, Increased boaters equals increased people coming to the area and spending their discresionary income.
...
I own a business in Dover. Dover sees nothing from me.
Your business pay rent and your landlord pays property tax in Dover, right? How much property tax does an empty run down building pay versus one with a thriving business.
chriscraft208
08-21-2009, 07:37 AM
I tried to launch at ames farm but the ramps are closed for the duration. Does anyone know of good alternative boat ramps in the area I tried one close by and it took over an hour to get going too long for my taste any help would be appreciated. Thanks
BroadHopper
08-21-2009, 08:19 AM
Unfortunately is on lake Winnisquam! :eek:
We did it to ourselves with all the rules and regulations of surounding towns and state legislature. Soon the lake will no longer be boater friendly. :confused:
fatlazyless
08-21-2009, 09:28 AM
In the past ten years, the state has built launch faciities on Newfound, Squam & Winnisquam. The facilities include parking for trailers attached to vehicle, double ramps, dock, and toilets. Lake Sunapee is on deck to be next.
Why not on Winnipesaukee? Because of all the town and marina ramps including Ames Farm Inn. Could be that Ames has been the most popular unofficial go-to spot which tipped the scale of decision against creating a Winnipesaukee state launch.
If the State of NH builds a new state launch on Lake Winnipesaukee, it would be nice to see it built in Laconia because Laconia is the only lake town without a town ramp. There's commercial property on Paugus Bay that has nothing to do with 'waterfront' but could be used as a boat launch. Thinking of the vacant Fitzgerald car building, across from McDonald's. Considering the size of the Winnisquam launch,which is very small, the Fitzgerald lot could be big enough for a state launch. A handy spot to daytrip the 32' Baja from your driveway to the lake! :D
BroadHopper
08-21-2009, 09:40 AM
That the town of Laconia actually appropriated time and money to build a public ramp on Paugus Bay years ago. Of course politics intervene and the city lost out on a great opportunity. :(
Wolfeboro_Baja
10-05-2009, 10:54 AM
So since Ames Farm Inn has settled with NH DES (link to Skip's thread (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8677); thank you Skip!), has anyone heard anything else regarding the status of Ames Farm and whether or not the ramps will be open to the public next year? As a trailer boater, I hate not knowing what's going on!! :confused:
upthesaukee
10-05-2009, 03:44 PM
I drove by Ames Farm yesterday, and noticed a new (to me) fence up, located on the right side of the road as you drive down to the boat ramp from the main building. It is a rail fence and appears to be there to keep people from parking there, an indication that they may not be using that big field for anything soon.:(
Sorry.
Wolfeboro_Baja
10-05-2009, 04:02 PM
Thanks for the update, upthesaukee. :)
I drive by Ames Farm whenever we go to West Alton Marina to launch and if it's an unfinished fence you saw, it sounds like the same fence that was there the past couple of years. I'm not sure why it went up but it was there before the whole fiasco began this year!
Mr. V
10-05-2009, 10:49 PM
OK, so if Ames Farm was allowing boats to be launched for years, at say ten bucks a pop, and they never had permission / legal authority to do that: shouldn't the fees they collected over the years be recovered and redistributed somehow?
They seem to have profited by wrong-doing.
Sort of like putting a private toll booth up on rte. 11, except it's located on lakefront.
That just doesn't seem right.
What does the law say?
NoRegrets
10-06-2009, 06:55 AM
I like to think that the land is private and they can do what they want. I am not 100% sure of the legal technicalities in this case but this was a "business" as a farm and resort. The rub is they can not produce documentation stating that they were granted a license to specifically conduct business as a marina. Back in the good old days (before 35 million lawyers) the legal details were not as finite. The intent of the law was used and not so much the technicality of the law. (What is the meaning of "IS")
Private land used as a business can charge a reasonable rate for parking and use. Many are now locked out or have to go to other crowded locations.
Woodsy
10-06-2009, 08:32 AM
Gotta love lawyers..... :rolleye2::rolleye2:
While there may be some dispute over the permitting legalities surrounding Ames Farm, the town of Gilford was well aware of the boat activities that were occuring there for years and years. This property was valued and taxed accordingly...
I would hope the citizens of Gilford will vote to amend the zoning ordinances to allow Ames Farm to resume the boat launch and parking. To those neighbors who decided to pursue this issue.... be careful what you wish for! If it was my business & property I would sell the properties to a developer for huge $$$ and just laugh my a$$ off as they built nice big cluster of condos....
Woodsy
Mr. V
10-06-2009, 09:23 AM
To those neighbors who decided to pursue this issue.... be careful what you wish for! If it was my business & property I would sell the properties to a developer for huge $$$ and just laugh my a$$ off as they built nice big cluster of condos....
Woodsy
If they sold the land condos could be the end result, but the current real estate market may not be favorable for this sort of development.
I would bet equal money that were the Ames family to sell today, some rich guy, like Bahre, would buy all the land and build a lakeside chateau.
Or a developer would sell lots for Mcmansions.
The rich will always be rich.
And I am sure the complainants realized that could happen when they opened this can of worms; they would most likely prefer condos over the noise and traffic that happened on busy weekends at and near Ames.
OK, so if Ames Farm was allowing boats to be launched for years, at say ten bucks a pop, and they never had permission / legal authority to do that: shouldn't the fees they collected over the years be recovered and redistributed somehow?
They seem to have profited by wrong-doing.
Sort of like putting a private toll booth up on rte. 11, except it's located on lakefront.
That just doesn't seem right.
What does the law say?
One of the complainants used information he gathered when hired as a surveyor by the Farm back in the 80's to give a presentation to the town of Gilford against the Farm last year.
That just doesn't seem right.
Perhaps the Farm should be reimbursed.
If they sold the land condos could be the end result, but the current real estate market may not be favorable for this sort of development.
I would bet equal money that were the Ames family to sell today, some rich guy, like Bahre, would buy all the land and build a lakeside chateau.
Or a developer would sell lots for Mcmansions.
The rich will always be rich.
And I am sure the complainants realized that could happen when they opened this can of worms; they would most likely prefer condos over the noise and traffic that happened on busy weekends at and near Ames.
Well I'm sure there's some complainants that might have an eye on it for development of one kind or another.
Mr. V
10-06-2009, 09:53 PM
One of the complainants used information he gathered when hired as a surveyor by the Farm back in the 80's to give a presentation to the town of Gilford against the Farm last year.
That just doesn't seem right.
Perhaps the Farm should be reimbursed.
Information gleaned by a surveyor who was merely observing that which was plainly visible to the public eye would not be considered confidential.
But you're trying to obfuscate, which in your position as someone with a vested interest in the outcome ("That family and that place is part of my heritage") is completely understandable.
I wonder what punishment, fine, or penance, if any, should be meted out to Ames Farm for charging a fee to launch boats for years, when it was never legal for them to do so?
Where do you draw the line between sharp business practices and illegality?
Ignorantia juris non excusat.
Rattlesnake Gal
10-09-2009, 08:55 AM
I've been looking through the postcards in PhotoPost (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/index.php) and came across this one of Ames Farm.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/data/531/medium/20scanamesfarmdouble.jpg
From McDude's Gallery (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=20&cat=500)
Click here to go to the image in PhotoPost (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4006), where you can click on the picture for a super-size version.
"...Where do you draw the line between sharp business practices and illegality...?
Until recent years, there was a dearth of lawyers in this region—probably because much business was sealed with a handshake. (Like the 1994 sale of the 101-acre tract that abuts my property).
Today, well, there are no lawyers starving in New Hampshire. :rolleye2:
Woodsy
10-09-2009, 11:30 AM
APS...
I totally agree with you on this one!
Woodsy
PS: Just got a tweet from Lucifer.. apparently hell has frozen over and he is a little twisted that APS & I agree... ;);)
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