Lake Level

[dmjr]

Does anyone know why the lake is so low? Did the state lower the lake? I had to bring a boat back from getting service work to the owners dock in Moultonborough.

[Resident 2B]

The flow at the dam has been near or at minimum all summer. The lake is low due to the lack of rain. It is really dry out there and unless we get a good rainfall soon, the boating season for some will end early.

The tress need it as well. What looks to some like early color is actually stress from the dry conditions with the trees dropping leaves early.

R2B

[TomC]

about five inches lower than "normal"

[Resident 2B]

TomC is correct, we are 5" below normal.

The concern I have is we are at a level that is normal for October 10th and that is when most take their boats out. If we lose a few more inches, which will happen without rain, we will be below lake levels that those with local knowledge have confidence in. Bad news for boaters, great news for "prop shops".

There is the potential for a tropical system to visit us early next week. This is a long shot, but it could be an instant fix. :eek:

We do not need the winds, but send us the rains!

R2B

[skprbob]

As of Tuesday PM the level at the Weirs Beach gauge on the public dock stood at 503.0 ft. This is just over one foot below "full pool" at 504.2. That's actually about right for this time of year.

[Resident 2B]

Yes, the lake is at 503.0 ft

However, that is clearly below normal for this time of the year.

This web site has the historacal graphs and shows the below normal situation.

http://www.des.state.nh.us/Dam/graph/graph2007.htm

Normal is the white line, the light blue is the 24 year average and the red line is the level for the date. Follow across to where the white line intersects 503.0 and look up to find October 10th.

R2B

[LIforrelaxin]

My boat is on its way out of the water after this weekend. After watching the way the lake fell last week it is time. We can hope for rain but I would rather not bet on it....

On another note does anyone know the contact information for the DES agency responsible for the Dam operation? I think it is time to write them a letter. they are trying so hard to track the lake level with the statisical average that they are causing low lake levels almost every year. they need to not open the dam up everytime it rains.... The last time it rained back in either early August or July the lake came up and was higher by a few inches then the statistical average, and insted of letting it come down running the minimum out flow they opened the dam and ran it out over the course of a week. I understand worring about the lake getting to high if a major storm come through....but they need to stop trying to conform to the statiscal average or lower......Looking at the chart provided in Resident 2B post they never let the lake go into positive deviation at all this summer after the intial inflow in the spring

[Puck]

If you look at the middle graph you will notice that the discharge has been flat lined for some time while the incoming flows have continued to fall. The problem is that the state is required to maintain a certain minimum flow out of the lake. They can't just shut off the Winnipesaukee River and let it run dry. They are operating at the minimum outflow already and can't shut it down any further.

[GWC...]

My boat is on its way out of the water after this weekend. After watching the way the lake fell last week it is time. We can hope for rain but I would rather not bet on it....

On another note does anyone know the contact information for the DES agency responsible for the Dam operation? I think it is time to write them a letter. they are trying so hard to track the lake level with the statisical average that they are causing low lake levels almost every year. they need to not open the dam up everytime it rains.... The last time it rained back in either early August or July the lake came up and was higher by a few inches then the statistical average, and insted of letting it come down running the minimum out flow they opened the dam and ran it out over the course of a week. I understand worring about the lake getting to high if a major storm come through....but they need to stop trying to conform to the statiscal average or lower......Looking at the chart provided in Resident 2B post they never let the lake go into positive deviation at all this summer after the intial inflow in the spring
If life were only so easy...

This graph from Bizer shows that life is not so easy when dealing with Mother Nature.
True to form, a female will change her mind just to keep you guessing...

http://www.bizer.com/lakelog.gif

[Cobalt]

Liforrelaxin has precisely described the problem this year leading to low lakes levels. When we had rain earlier in the summer, the outflow at the dam was increased 3x to 4x minimum drawing down the lake below the 504 level.

It seems like those regulating the outflow attempt to predict the summer rains and adjust the lake in anticipation with emphasis of erroring on the low side.

[skprbob]

R2B - Yes, 503.0 is "clearly below normal" as you say, however, if you look closely at the graph, you'll see that that's only about 4" below the 1982-2006 mean and is still within one standard deviation of that level. That hardly qualifies as something to get upset about right now. It may certainly become a problem if the fall stays as dry as it's been, since the DES, as Puck correctly points out, has to maintain a minimum flow in the river and can't shut the dam off completely. The DES is always between a rock and a hard place trying to predict flow requirements and the weather - the do the best they can and are constantly criticized no matter what they do. There's always someone to complain!

[LIforrelaxin]

The DES is always between a rock and a hard place trying to predict flow requirements and the weather - the do the best they can and are constantly criticized no matter what they do. There's always someone to complain!

Yes someone will always complain.... and I do admit DES is between a rock and a hard place. But when I look at the charts and the standard deviation I notice one important fact they don't seem to like it to go to a positive deviation. And I have noticed this for several years. Once they get the lake down two the point where they are drawing the minimum amount from the lake each day 250 cfs, they need to give the lake a little more lee way and allow it to come back up some......it would allow for dry Augusts to be a little less damaging. If there is a big strom then yes they need to open the spill way.... but when the lake only comes up 2 or 3 inches there is no reason to open the spill way......The "Dam Jockeys" have gotten too gun shy..... In my opinion anyways

I also note that on one of the DES web pages that they say they will regulate releases at the lake port dam to keep the lake between 504.0 and 504.32 feet for recreational enjoyment.... Now I know they can't maintain 504 feet all summer..... but when the lake gets below 504 feet they need to allow things to fluctuate with the weather a little more..... storms that will raise the lake significantly are rare, we just had a few unlucky years....

[Weirs guy]

Hey, what ever happened to our poster from the Lakeport Damn last year, Keeper? He was very informative then.

Throwing away all the six sigma chart analysis this year my beach showed a big draw down in mid August, just as last year. Its now gotten to the point where we have about 5' of water where there should be 10' at full lake. I say to heck with everyone down river, bring her back up before I can't swim anymore!! :laugh:

[Nauset]

My boat is on its way out of the water after this weekend. After watching the way the lake fell last week it is time. We can hope for rain but I would rather not bet on it....


Why? Are you in an already shallow area?

[Kona Family]

The biggest problem with the low lake level is the fact DES only allows you to dredge, longer docks, etc. based on "full lake". So if you live in an area that is shallow but barely deep enough with a "full lake" you are basically screwed August 15 and forward (this year was worse). It is unfortunate the DES bases everything around full lake given we really only enjoy full lake for May and June when few people are actually boating.

[Ropetow]

:eek: We have a slip past the bridge in Alton Bay and it is quite shallow now. I was there today and retreived a Coke can from the botton without getting by shirt-sleeve wet. Hoping that tropical storm gives us a good dump after the weekend (hopefully we'll get 2 good days of boating on Saturday and Sunday before the rains....)

[MJM]

From today's Union Leader....

===============================================

Lake Winnipesaukee level below normal
By ROGER AMSDEN
New Hampshire Union Leader Correspondent

GILFORD – A drier-than-normal August dropped Lake Winnipesaukee 16 inches below the full lake level and four to six inches below its seasonal norm for the first week in September.

"I guess you can blame it on the decent weather. For the lake to be any higher we'd have had to have a lot more rain than we got last month," says Bob Fay, who operates the Lakeport Dam which controls the lake's level.

He said discharge from the dam is 245 cubic feet per second, the lowest needed to keep lakes through which the Winnipesaukee River flows from dropping several feet as well as to provide a flow for power plants along the river.

The low lake level increases the chance for power boats and deep-keeled sailboats to hit rocks, something which has happened in recent weeks.

Merrill Fay, of Fay's Boatyard in Gilford, said two sailboats recently hit rocks, with one that ran its keel into a rock near Eagle's Island suffering about $20,000 in damage. He said the repair shop at the yard has had to work on several powerboats which have damaged their drive trains by hitting rocks.

But Russ Holliday of Glendale Marine said he hasn't seen any more damage than usual.

"(The lake is) pretty low, but we haven't seen any damage you could attribute just to the low water. Boaters find other things to run into though, just like any other year," he said.

"I really didn't realize how low it was until we were taking out a boat the other day near the public docks, and I looked at the Sea-Doo launching site and I saw that the ramp was just about out of the water," said Holliday.

John Goodhue of Gilford, who owns an island summer home, said he's seen the 44,000-acre lake lower.

"One year it was down something like 37 inches from full lake, and we had trouble getting our stuff off the island late in the fall. But it's always come back, just like in 2005 when we had all the fall rain and the lake was high for most of the winter."

The discharge that year was increased throughout late fall and for most of the winter, resulting in a current in the lake which kept it from completely freezing over in 2006.

Dam operator Bob Fay said boaters should be carfeful, read their charts and stay in marked channels.

"Some of the places they could go earlier this summer are a lot lower right now," he said.

Fay said that even a two-inch rainfall wouldn't raise the lake level appreciably right now because the ground is so dry that most of of the rain would soak in rather than run off.

[jrc]

....
Merrill Fay, of Fay's Boatyard in Gilford, said two sailboats recently hit rocks, with one that ran its keel into a rock near Eagle's Island suffering about $20,000 in damage. He said the repair shop at the yard has had to work on several powerboats which have damaged their drive trains by hitting rocks.
...

How fast do you have to be going to do $20,000 in damage to a sailboat?

[CanisLupusArctos]

With a La Nina (opposite of El Nino) forming in the Pacific, the weather pattern has become favorable for storms to the east, in the Atlantic. It's already produced two landfalling Category-5 hurricanes in a row (unprecedented) which should be taken as a good demo of what it's capable of.

There's tropical moisture off the east coast at the moment which is beginning to show signs of developing into a named storm (Gabrielle) that could affect New England next week. The USAF 'Hurricane Hunters' just announced they are planning to fly into it this afternoon to see what's going on.

The ocean is definitely in rain-making mode - it's just a matter of waiting for the weather pattern to start bringing it here.

[dpg]

Does anyone know why the lake is so low? Did the state lower the lake? I had to bring a boat back from getting service work to the owners dock in Moultonborough.

Don't know where yo live but at my house (Ma.) is hasn't rained much at all since like July or something. Water bans all over the place down here. I believe we even have one in Suissevale right now.

[Resident 2B]

CLA,

I have been watching this for two days now and I was losing hope until this morning. See post #4 on this thread.

NOAA has GOES Floater 3 sitting on top of it. They have tagged it 99L for now. Go take a peak. Big difference in the last 15 hours. Still not sure it will get up here as a storm, but remnant moisture could really help the lake.

Time will tell!

R2B

[CanisLupusArctos]

R2B, you're right. The last couple days the system looked like it was getting killed with all the dry air we had. Even here we had dewpoint down to 32 a couple nights ago. As of today those dewpoints are back up to 65-70. If anything that should slow the rate of evaporation from the lake - the dam operator said evap had been an issue with the very dry air. On the water-vapor satellite pic it looked like the tropical system wasn't getting as much competition from dry air anymore.

And if this one doesn't bring too much moisture, it does appear the ocean's starting to bubble and boil - this extremely low lake level could end up being a big blessing sometime this fall.

[sa meredith]

Came thru the channel yesterday. Wow! I've never known that to be a stressful trip...but when passing under the bridge, with two way traffic, there is VERY LITTLE room unless your boat can operate in 2 feet of water. Low, low, low. Rocks looked ready to jump out of the water.

[jetskier]

Came thru the channel yesterday. Wow! I've never known that to be a stressful trip...but when passing under the bridge, with two way traffic, there is VERY LITTLE room unless your boat can operate in 2 feet of water. Low, low, low. Rocks looked ready to jump out of the water.

I went through the channel with the boat today and measured the depth. The water is lowest at the two entrances of the channels...Weirs side and Paugus Bay side. At these points, the depth is about 6 feet. In the channel proper, the depth is about 10'

The height marker on the bridge is showing less than 503 now.

Jetskier:D

[LIforrelaxin]

Why? Are you in an already shallow area?

Yes this pretty much the problem... we got a bad draw... Lot to the left and lot to the right have good water depth, in front of out place is a high point. Luckly I have a seasonal dock, which current only goes out 32 Feet.... quess I will be looking into extending it next year to the full 40 feet Which will give me a little more clearence....

On the flipside I took the Dock out this weekend for the first time ever with out a wetsuit......

[CanisLupusArctos]

Rain began this morning just before 7:00 a.m. and in the past two hours has tallied more than a quarter-inch (0.30). The regional radar shows a line of heavy rain showers over central NH, with much of Vermont and New York State covered by moderate and heavy rain moving east.

Looks like it's going to be a rainy day on the lake and it's looking possible that we might see an inch of rain before it's all over with.

There's more on the way for early this week, including the possibility of T.S. Gabrielle sending some rain on Tuesday but it seems like it wants to go out to sea. In any case, it doesn't look like we'll see much sun until Wednesday.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Can't remember being happy to see it raining on a Sunday for a long time. This is very welcome. Hope they don't react in Lakeport.

[SIKSUKR]

The ramp at the Gilford town docks for Jetskis is getting very bad.There is a dropoff of 10 -12 inches beyond the concrete ramp itself.Saturday my trailer bottomed out on the ramp as I was backing down.I have small 8 inch wheels so the clearance is less than most trailers for full size boats.I noticed there were some rocks stacked to try and help with the transition from lake bottom to top of the ramp.I had to move them to line up with my narrower wheelbase.As I waited to launch I watched one lady leave the ramp after unloading and saw her trailer get some pretty good air as it hit the 12 inch high ramp edge.
Just wanted to get out a word of caution when using this ramp.

[CanisLupusArctos]

Rainfall at Black Cat has just topped an inch since it began yesterday morning... 1.06 inches... and still more green and yellow on the radar headed this way.

Lake level at 11 am is back up to 503 feet and rising slowly. As long as they keep the dam flow to a minimum the lake should start to respond to this rain in the next couple of days.

Also, only about 3 more weeks left in the growing season - when that ends, there will be more runoff.

[AC2717]

Rainfall at Black Cat has just topped an inch since it began yesterday morning... 1.06 inches... and still more green and yellow on the radar headed this way.

Lake level at 11 am is back up to 503 feet and rising slowly.How do they measure the 503 feet, i mean the channel is not 503 feet? How do they get those numbers on the bridge wall? how doe they determine that number? also at no point, I thought, the lake is 505 or 503 feet deep at certain places:confused:

Please explain how is number is found and why they use it there and basically all about it would be great

[lfm]

How do they measure the 503 feet, i mean the channel is not 503 feet? How do they get those numbers on the bridge wall? how doe they determine that number? also at no point, I thought, the lake is 505 or 503 feet deep at certain places:confused:

Please explain how is number is found and why they use it there and basically all about it would be great

The 504.32 feet that is used as a datum for full lake is referenced to feet (height) above sea-level. It has nothing to do with a direct measure of depth of the lake.

[SIKSUKR]

Some opinions differ referencing a deep hole by the Weirs,but according to the Bizer the deepest part of the lake is 213 ft located about 1 mile off Carr point in Gilford.

[CanisLupusArctos]

504 feet is the elevation (altitude) of the surface of the lake when it's full, as lfm said. Think of the lake surface the same way you'd think of any other land feature, like a mountain-- Red Hill's summit is around 2,000 feet, the top of Rattlesnake Island is about 800 feet, and the waterline of the lake itself (when it's full) is 504.32 feet.

When a seaplane is getting ready to take off from the water surface, the pilot sets his altimeter to just a notch above 500 feet. When it shows him at 1000 feet he's actually 500 feet over the water, he'd risk skimming the treetops on Rattlesnake Island, and he'd crash right into Red Hill unless he kept climbing.

[AC2717]

Thank you very much for the information, it has cleared up a lot of debate in my family!

[GWC...]

Here's another graph showing the Lake level...

http://www.des.state.nh.us/rti_data/WEIN3_PELV.JPG

URL Link:

http://www.des.state.nh.us/rti_internal_home/station_information_display.asp?ID=WEIN3&NAME=Lake+Winnipesaukee

[Cobalt]

The lake level chart shows a drop of approximately 4 inches within one hour from 502.98 on 9/18/07 at 11 AM to 502.65 on 9/18/07 at noon.

I initially thought this was a typo, but the level reported this morning 9/19/07 at 4 AM was 502.63. Does anyone have any info? Thanks.

[Bizer]

I initially thought this was a typo, ... It's a mistake, but not necessarily a typo. Even with the dam wide open, it would take three days to drop four inches. I assume you're looking at
http://www.des.state.nh.us/rti_data/wein3_TABLE.HTML
However, this page, says today's reading was 2.96
http://www.des.state.nh.us/Dam/graph/chart2007.htm
Both 603-527-0071 (daily) and 603-366-2161 (real time) are reporting 2.96.

[Rose]

I think there's something wrong with the sensors. The temperature dropped 20 degrees at the same time the lake dropped 4". Then the temperature rose 16 degrees between 6 and 7 pm.

[TomC]

obviously temp and depth are two different systems. More likely that the data belongs to some other day when it was 20 degrees cooler and the lake was 4" lower, ie a database probelm...

[Rose]

Obviously two different sensors, but I thought perhaps they were sharing a power supply which went wonky and caused a problem. Whatever the case, they know about it and have taken it off line...the data is no longer updating.

[LIforrelaxin]

Well I was looking at this thread, I openned another browser window, and looked at both the page for the dam and wier lake level. I noticed two things although you can see the lake level spread sheet data the graph is not opening.... I would say someone is looking into the problem, with the mysterious lake level drop.

On the Dam discharge page I noticed that the outflow has been reduced yet again down to around 210 cfs. This is the lowest outflow rate I think I have ever noticed. Although I must admit I haven't been tracking this for any real length of time. Would this be some sort of automatic reaction to the sudden lake level reading drop at the Wiers? Or is something flawed with that data as well?

[CanisLupusArctos]

The outflow reduction is likely a reaction to the forecast. There is no significant precipitation in NH's forecast for at least the next 6 days.

Some outflow must be maintained in order to keep the downstream waters flowing, so what is happening is that the entire river & lake system is slowly draining away with no rain coming to refill it.

NOAA's 14-day climate outlook continues to show the northeast US in above-normal temps and below-normal precip. This time of year, one tropical storm or hurricane could change that outlook suddenly.

Believe it or not, we are not even in a drought. According to NOAA's Climate Prediction Center, northern New England joins the Midwest and the great plains in being the only completely drought-free areas of the continental US. Southern New England and New York State are listed as "abnormally dry", the first step toward drought status.