Moultonboro Neck Bike/Walking Path

[DREAMS]

I would like to contact the appropriate members responsible for engineering this recent phase completed. Of course, the contractor should be ashamed for the excessive hours spent in completing the project and the poor results based on the combination of installation/engineering? The sidewalk will always be unsafe for biking due to the constant washing of gravel and sand on the surface with rain storms. I don't understand why they didn't design the sidewalk to be elevated higher than the road if they didn't want to pave the entire surface and eliminate the gravel space. After how many hundreds of thousands of dollars paid by hard work and fundraising for phase 2, what will the third phase look like which is the most elevated section of the entire road? The first phase was done in good taste and has proved to sustain the weather conditions. Why change the plan?

[KonaChick]

It is pretty funny to see seasoned bicyclers not on the path that was built for them but riding on the road...it appears they're not very trusting of the path.

[ITD]

Just rode on it today, I have a mountain bike so it was no problem, but there is no way I would ride on that with a road bike. Between the breaks for gravel driveways and the rocks from the gravel place between the road and path it would wreck a road bike in no time. I think someone needs to go back to the drawing board on this one although the path is a great idea. 22 miles from my house to Harillas landing and back.:)

[Gatto Nero]

Why did they choose not to continue the pavement over the gravel driveways? Was it a money issue, a personal property issue, or something else? Either way it seems kinda silly.

[idigtractors]

Could someone please post a picture or 2 of this engineering nite mare that is being discussed so those of us that do not use the trail may have some idea of what you're talking about??

[Lucky2Bhere]

From what I understand the decision not to pave the driveways was made by the state. When the state funds a project they (in their infinite wisdom) control the planning and engineering. Modifications could possibly be made after the fact. The concept is great and the many walkers who use the 1st phase truly appreciate it. Serious road bikers will always use the road. Families will use the path.

[Irrigation Guy]

I'd say the bike path has been a success. There have alot of people using it since its completion. I've seen kids on bikes and people walking on it, you almost never saw that before. If it were raised, then the wing plows would just scrape it up and ruin it for sure. If they paved across dirt driveways, then it would most likely be damaged when those driveways were plowed. I know alot of the rocks on there have come from trucks and cars that drive off the road and onto the dirt and rock section loosening and spewing rocks as they do. I think some are doing it for kicks and just don't care. I also noticed that some cars and trucks are driving on the buffer when passing a turning car, this is the reason for the cones at the turn for Shaker Jerry Rd. I think this section was done differently because of space constraints that they didn't have on the lower section.

It is a shame to see all that "stuff" on there, hopefully things will get packed down a little more as time goes on.

[hazelnut]

I have some questions on the design. Why the heck didn't they just pave it against the road? Why did they leave a gravel patch between the path and the road? It makes no sense to me.

LocalRealtor, while I agree with you to a point I also feel that much of the gravel is caused by rain wash out. Raising it may not have been the right choice but they should have at least paved the whole section next to the road.

I think it looks like a huge mess.

[Irrigation Guy]

I have some questions on the design. Why the heck didn't they just pave it against the road? Why did they leave a gravel patch between the path and the road? It makes no sense to me.

LocalRealtor, while I agree with you to a point I also feel that much of the gravel is caused by rain wash out. Raising it may not have been the right choice but they should have at least paved the whole section next to the road.

I think it looks like a huge mess.

It certainly doesn't look great with the sand and rocks on it. I do think if they paved it to the road then the cars and truck would think of it as an extension of the road and drive on it. They are probably the same ones who throw bottles and cans onto the roadside and tailgate.

[TomC]

I saw a landscaping crew sweeping the paths a couple of weeks ago. After the thunderstorms we had just after that, the gravel/rocks were all back on the path. The "tour de france" bike-riders ride in the road....

[Lucky2Bhere]

I agree the gravel doesn't look great and the stones are too large, but being separate from the road makes a huge difference when you're walking on it. The areas where it merges with the road are still scary when cars and trucks whip around the corners. I've seen many drivers totally disregard the pathway and use it as a breakdown lane. In addition to the safety risks it also kicks up stones pnto the pathway. Does anyone think a grassy border would look and function better than gravel?

[Lakegeezer]

Could someone please post a picture or 2 of this engineering nite mare that is being discussed so those of us that do not use the trail may have some idea of what you're talking about??Here's a shot taken on Tuesday afternoon. There are lots of places like this.

[Irrigation Guy]

I agree the gravel doesn't look great and the stones are too large, but being separate from the road makes a huge difference when you're walking on it. The areas where it merges with the road are still scary when cars and trucks whip around the corners. I've seen many drivers totally disregard the pathway and use it as a breakdown lane. In addition to the safety risks it also kicks up stones pnto the pathway. Does anyone think a grassy border would look and function better than gravel?

I think they probably choose to use gravel/stone because very little will grow that close to the road because of the salt they use in the winter and if grass were able to grow someone would have to mow/maintain it.

[idigtractors]

Here's a shot taken on Tuesday afternoon. There are lots of places like this.
Thanks Lakegeezer for the photo, but now I'm more confused. Why in heck would anyone put stones on the side of the road. All it would take is a few of those getting in the roadway and a car/truck hit one on the side of a tire and throw it right at someone in the path. Serious damage could occur. I don't believe, no I know I wouldn't be out there walking, riding or anything else. I was thinking this path was on an old railroad bed or something, not on a traveled road.

[JTA]

My wife saw some sort of a sweeper, like a small street sweeper, a one man sit on machine, sweeping the stones off of the path. There must be some sort of game plan for keeping the path useable.

[wildwoodfam]

Thanks Lakegeezer for the photo, but now I'm more confused. Why in heck would anyone put stones on the side of the road. All it would take is a few of those getting in the roadway and a car/truck hit one on the side of a tire and throw it right at someone in the path. Serious damage could occur. I don't believe, no I know I wouldn't be out there walking, riding or anything else. I was thinking this path was on an old railroad bed or something, not on a traveled road.

If not crushed gravel then what? They couldn't pave it to the edge - would have been horrible for safety purposes. Because of the pathway along the neck road walking along this road is MUCH SAFER than it was just a few years ago. I would never have thought to take my kids out for a bike ride along the neck road - and walking was out of the question! Now that the pathway is there - at least there is a sense of safety and having the stone there makes me as a driver more attentive to not getting too close to the pathway.

Serious bikers are not going to use that pathway anyway - they prefer the expanse of the paved road to zip along at 25 - 30mph!

[SIKSUKR]

It's a great idea.I think after a while,most of the loose stone will either be compacted or pushed off of the paved surfaces.I am surprized to see that BOTH sides of the road have been done.

[Weirs guy]

Just as an outsiders point of view as I never use the road, looking at the pic provided I would not hesitate to use the gravel section to go around a car turning left, just like I do on every other road that looks like this. Looks to me like a good place for some of those tire eating granite curbs.

[islandAl]

Instead of the loose gravel, use cobble stones or pavement with the cuts in that make the loud noise when driven on. That would probably be better as it would be a sound warning to anyone walking that a car is out of the lane and be prepared for a land cap. bonehead move.

[John A. Birdsall]

I am no engineer, but I would suspect that by putting rocks(gravel) between the bicycle path and the road it would be harder for grass to grow, and save the state from having to mow the grass. I don't think that was very smart, and they did not tar it because of frost heaves me thinks:confused:

[ITD]

Instead of the loose gravel, use cobble stones or pavement with the cuts in that make the loud noise when driven on. That would probably be better as it would be a sound warning to anyone walking that a car is out of the lane and be prepared for a land cap. bonehead move.

Reminds me of a limerick....... never mind. :D

[Rag Top Daze]

I agree the gravel doesn't look great and the stones are too large, but being separate from the road makes a huge difference when you're walking on it. The areas where it merges with the road are still scary when cars and trucks whip around the corners. I've seen many drivers totally disregard the pathway and use it as a breakdown lane. In addition to the safety risks it also kicks up stones pnto the pathway. Does anyone think a grassy border would look and function better than gravel?

On my way home from work last Friday I saw town police with cars stopped in 2 different places with the stopped cars AND police cars pulled in the bike path.

[Loony Singer]

We live near the end of the Neck, and I'm a slow (12-13 mph), steady bike rider. I've used Phase 1 of the Path since it was completed, and though I have a couple minor quibbles with it, I sincerely appreciate it.

Phase 2 is a different matter. I rode on it yesterday, I just don't get it. In addition to the problems with gravel already mentioned, I cannot understand why they made it so narrow. On any mixed-use path, sharing between pedestrians and bikers can be an occasional problem. For many pedestrians, a walk is a social occasion, so they walk side-by-side so they can talk. That's one thing on a 6' wide path like Phase 1, but the new section is so narrow that even one biker passing one walker is tight. So who's supposed to veer off the path into the gravel? The biker? The walker?

I hate to be so critical, because I know how long and hard the sponsors must have worked to make the path a reality. But if it was a money issue, they should have waited another year or two and done the job right.

I'd love to hear from someone on the Pathway Committee about their thinking on this design. They must have had their reasons.

[dmjr]

I would make contact with the board of selectmen to voice your concerns about it. I travel Moultonborough neck road at least once a day and bicycles are still traveling on the roadway.

[Irrigation Guy]

It does seem as though it should have been made a little wider as mentioned above. I was happy to see that yesterday there was a worker with a leaf blower that went along the length of the bike path blowing all the rocks and sand off it. I wonder if its just a coincidence that its parents weekend at the camps. :rolleye2: I must say I was happy to see it regardless of the timing. It does look alot better, and is undoubtably alot safer for the users of the path, especially young children on bicycles.

[dmjr]

I just came back up the neck and I was stuck behind 6 bicycles that were riding in the middle of the road. I feel that it is a major safety hazard.

[Long Island Baba]

This topic has been raised as a topic the last few Board of Selectmen meetings in Moultonboro...asking questions as to what was going on, etc. At the meeting last week (7/26) the Board voted to approve a town employee to spend 5 hours/week manually sweeping the pathway. At tomorrow night's Selectman's meeting at 7pm in the Town Hall (8/2) the engineer is supposed to be there to talk about the design, what they were thinking, how this is supposed to work, etc. Public is welcome for input and questions. Should be more fun when the snowplows come along, huh?
Come to the meeting and voice your concern or send an email to the Board or Town Administrator (addresses at the home website www.moultonborough.org).

[wires1999]

Here's a shot taken on Tuesday afternoon. There are lots of places like this.
That is the strangest thing I've ever seen. What keeps the cars from thinking it's a breakdown lane? signs? I was thinking it was farther from the road like the one we have in Concord. Seems like a waste of town money to have someone always sweeping it. I would have paved it right up to the road and put in the rumble strips and good signage that you can't use it as a breakdown lane.

[Lin]

At the meeting last week (7/26) the Board voted to approve a town employee to spend 5 hours/week manually sweeping the pathway.

Last weekend we went out the neck road to visit the Weirs and saw someone with a blower blasting the stone off the pathway. Looked like a town worker to us, he did the entire path, both sides of the road while we were gone. Saw him first on the East side just North of Shakerjerry and on the way back he was on the West side up on the hill above the Christmas tree farm. When we came back one of the sections he had just finished doing was littered with stone again, Looked like someone pulled around a car making a left near Stick and Stones road and splattered the walkway with the stone that sat in between the Neck Road and the pathway. It's probably going to be a never ending problem with the stone on the pathway, but we'd still use it, stones or not knowing the traffic on the road.

[Irrigation Guy]

LI Baba, Good news on the town taking care of the path, although it is a shame us taxpayers would have to spend that kind of money/manpower to maintain it.

Lin, I posted a couple posts back about the town worker with the leaf blower, and noticed almost immediately there were rocks back on the path. This is undoubtedly due to drivers going of the road and spewing rocks onto the path. I bet some of the time it is accidental, but also have to believe a few must think its sport, and humorous(NOT ME).

Wonder what might happen if someone happens to get hit by a rock thrown off the road in this manner. :eek:

[Rag Top Daze]

When I turn from The Neck Road onto Kona Farm Road, the same rocks are scattered across the end of Kona Farm Road. At that point, the bike path has ended. I noticed this scattering of rocks even before the bike path was put in. I have no idea from where they come, but occasionally it's clear, only to have the rocks back again by the end of the day when I get home. Any one have thoughts about what is causing this?

[Irrigation Guy]

When I turn from The Neck Road onto Kona Farm Road, the same rocks are scattered across the end of Kona Farm Road. At that point, the bike path has ended. I noticed this scattering of rocks even before the bike path was put in. I have no idea from where they come, but occasionally it's clear, only to have the rocks back again by the end of the day when I get home. Any one have thoughts about what is causing this?

Same two yucks in a truck spewing them all over the path, driving wherever they please and making work for the town. :rolleye1:

[DREAMS]

Thanks for all your comments and input. This is a very valueable and important asset to the community and the Neck Road Residents. However, the plan didn't work so pressure needs to be mounted by residents to make it right. Once again, from my understanding, private money was raised to create this sidewalk - I don't beleive it's taxpayer money or ever intended to require taxpayer maintenance. As bicycle folks admit, they won't use the sidewalk as requested due to safety issues and damage with their bikes. As one person said, they should have gone farther back from the road to create a safety distance from constant high speed cars on this winding secondary road with lots of turning traffic. They need to provide full pavement with no stones or gravel between. They could raise the sidewalk as in all other city sidewalks and resolve the winter maintenance issue or choose not to maintain the sidewalk during snowcover months. The bikers are creating safety hazards as the road is not safe or wide enough to pass bikers who refuse to move off the road. Lets band together and communicate with the association , town , engineers , etc. to force a correction and resolution to this major project. We don't want the final phase to be designed and wasted monies spent for the same results! Keep the communicaiton lines open! Thanks again for all your proactive and positive input to create a resolution!:liplick:

[Irrigation Guy]

City's have sewers and drainage. You can't put up curbs where you have no drainage. :D

[Long Island Baba]

Dreams, you are right on.
I attended the Board of Selectman's meeting last week. The engineer was there, though I'm not sure where he's from, I think the DOT. Anyway, the jist of the meeting was that it's the fault of the drivers!!!!!!! Stop pulling over to make phone calls! Stop driving like maniacs!!!!!! We were told by the Town Administrator that this was the design that had to be because they had to live within a budget. I'm sure I caught it and if anyone else was there, please verify. It was sort of a free-for-all open discussion with the public. The Selectboard members were right on that it's unacceptable in the current state. So, the engineer is coming back in 2 weeks...yeah, mark your calendars..Thursday, August 16th at Town Hall, 7pm. He will give cost information and further analysis on 4 solutions. A: Put loom and grass...oops, this calls for on-going maintenance! B: Fill with a light layer of cement to hold the gravel in place. While this has a cost to it he thinks there is enough money in the budget for it. I forget the other 2 but they have upfront costs too. So, we hurried up to spend the money cause that's all we had and now we have to find money to fix it. And, it's the drivers fault that it's a mess. Huh?
Anyone else at the meeting want to chime in? Moultonboro residents and taxpayers April 16th is your chance to speak up and ask questions of the engineer, directly.
Good news. Phase III is on hold and from all goings on in the paper and comments at the meeting, it will likely be a long time before any money shakes loose for this. I understood it was Federal Grant money plus donations. Phase II cost $500K according to Town Administrator, and PhaseI was $300K.

[Irrigation Guy]

As I posted in the past on this thread. It is the drivers, and I think some of them enjoy spewing the rocks, not to mention throwing beer bottles and cans. :confused:

[Long Island Baba]

Here are the 'official' draft minutes on the Public Session at Moultonboro Town Hall last week on this subject. Follow-up with engineer is 2 weeks from that meeting as noted in the document. Come and attend if you can or post your questions here and I'll try and get them into the discussion. You can always email the Town Administrator or Board of Selectmen from the Town website (www.moultonborough.org).

What is omitted from the minutes is the fact that this new design was used over the Phase I design because it was the only way we could get the job done and on budget. Using the Phase I design would have caused us to almost double the cost so therefore no pathway. I will ask this again next week to be sure it is in the documentation.

Below is the extract from the Minutes. Names....
Karel is Karel Crawford the Board of Selectmen Chairperson
Chuck is Chuck Connell the Town Administrator
Joel is Joel Mudgett a member of the Board of Selectmen
Donna Keuthe is the Recreation Director who was in charge of the Pathway Committee that got this thing going and from what I understand pushed for the "barrier" between traffic and walkway.
Jay is the engineer who I think represents DOT, but not sure. Need to find out. But, he's the expert here and handled this project.
Others are Moultonboro citizens/taxpayers/voters, etc.


"2. Jay Poulin, HEB – Pathway: Karel thanked Jay for attending to answer questions and address concerns about the condition of the Pathway. Karel stated that she walks the new portion of the Pathway daily and is concerned about rocks strewn on the pavement. Karel added that the Selectmen increased the hours of a Town employee on a temporary basis for him to clear the rocks until this problem can be rectified. Jay agreed that there are more stones on the Pathway than anticipated. Jay explained that the stone size complies with the NH DOT’s specifications, adding that the stone is on the large end of the standard. Jay stated that he sees four options to consider. The first is to leave it as is. The second is to apply a Portland Concrete mixture on the stone to solidify and stabilize the area. The third is to remove some of the rock and add loam and seed. He added that the NH DOT uses loam and seed over gravel. The fourth option is the most expensive, which is to pave that area. Karel asked Jay if he thought the construction company is responsible for the problem with the Pathway. Jay replied that the contractor followed the plans. Jay explained that the Pathway is lower than the rocks to allow for drainage rather than act as a dam. Joel commented that the gravel is mounded so that the rocks naturally go onto the Pathway. Jay told the Selectmen that the contractor compacted the gravel shoulder; the gravel on the Pathway has occurred since then. Everyone agreed that they see cars parked on the Pathway for various reasons. The result is that the gravel is kicked onto the paved path. Chuck offered that he witnessed vehicles that purposely knock over the cones. Isaiah Nysberg (who is sweeping the Pathway) watched a car drive on the gravel without stopping in an area he just cleared. Chuck stated people are being malicious. Joel asked if the option to mix the gravel with cement would need to be done yearly. Jay offered that he does not think so; he needs to continue to investigate. Jay’s tentative recommendation was to add the cement. Jay added that the original decision to use the gravel separation was made early to provide a safety barrier for the pedestrians and other users. Donna Kuethe agreed that the Pathway Committee supported this decision. Chris Shipp asked and Chuck replied that the cost for Phase I was $350,000 and Phase II is $500,000. Chuck added that the Phase I Pathway is only on one side of the road and is 8 feet wide. Phase II is on both sides and is 4 feet wide. Gary Torressen told the Selectmen that as a cyclist he is harassed by drivers on Moultonboro Neck Road since the Pathway was put in. The rocky condition of the Pathway and stopping the pavement at driveways, Gary stated, makes the Pathway unsafe for cyclists to use. Gary added that the “bike path” signs only add to the problem as vehicle drivers are angry when he rides his bike on the road. Jay responded that NH DOT reviewed both the preliminary and final plans, gave their approval, and required that the bike path signs be posted. Jay added that the Pathway was designed as a multi-use path and agreed that the paved path is less suitable for cyclists who travel at high speeds. The Pathway is more conducive to fat-tired bikes traveling at slower speeds. Mr. Torressen asked the Selectmen to consider posting different signs and fixing the other problems. Chuck stated that NH DOT denied the Town’s request to pave from the road’s edge to the end of the ROW. Jay added that if it was paved, then it would be considered part of the road. Chuck suggested changing the signs to read “multi-use”, adding “caution – cyclists in road” to the signs and adding pedestrian picto-grams on the path. Chris Shipp asked if Phase III of the Pathway has been started. Donna Kuethe replied that it has not because grant funding has been suspended. Jay recommended doing a test section on Phase II before attempting a final solution. Chuck asked Jay to provide preliminary cost estimates for the three viable options. Jay stated that he would do so and return in two weeks."

[Long Island Baba]

Reminder: Engineer comes before the Board of Selectmen this week, Thursday, August 16th at 7pm in the Town Hall. Your chance to speak-up, ask questions, or whatever.

[ApS]

My wife saw some sort of a sweeper, like a small street sweeper, a one man sit on machine, sweeping the stones off of the path. There must be some sort of game plan for keeping the path usable.
The path would be maintenance-free if it were 1" lower than the roadway, paved right up to it, and had those yellow reflectors ("Bott's Dots") bonded at the margin with the road.

The dots could be placed in regular rows. The snowplows couldn't hit them, they would provide a audible warning from behind and help identify pedestrian- and critter- crossings at night.

[ITD]

I've been riding on the bike path on Moultonboro Neck road several times now and I am appalled at how bad it is. The town or whoever paid for this should ask for their money back. Pretty much the whole length of the path, on both sides of the street, that have the rock divider is covered with rocks that average from 1 to 2 inches. Pretty bad, what happened to the sweeper? If the rest of this path or any other get built, this path should be used as an example of what not to do........

[hazelnut]

I have seen the sweeper on the Neck Road but come on?!?! It is such a joke. Whatever the sweeper does to clean it up gets pushed right back on by traffic and rain. This bike/walking/jogging path is the biggest disaster next to the Big Dig. I understand that there were some issues with regard to not being able to elevate it due to plows. I just do not understand why they didn't pave the whole lane and why they left the gravel gap between the road and the path. I have heard the party line is that they didn't want it to be used by cars going around traffic or as a breakdown lane or whatever. Well guess what cars still use it to pass turning traffic and that is what causes the mess. I have seen bikes using the road for god sakes because the path is such a mess!

[Loony Singer]

Glad to see ITD and Hazelnut have re-surfaced this issue. I agree completely with their comments, so I don't see a need to rehash them here.

What I'd like to know is the plans for moving forward with the Pathway. From the town website, I see that they're still having the fundraising race again this summer, but I think I heard somewhere that there won't necessarily be grants available for Phase 3. And there doesn't seem to be any more information than that available online.

Can anyone provide an update? Are there any plans to "fix" Phase 2? Will Phase 3 be more like Phase 1 or Phase 2, in terms of its design? Is there any projected completion date? How much more money are they looking to raise?

I did donate to this program initially, but stopped when I saw the results of Phase 2. I would really like to start supporting it again, but need to better understand what's going to happen before I'd be willing to chip in again.

[SAMIAM]

Since we all have to answere for choices in life.....I'd like to know who or what town agency made the decision to leave gravel between the road and the bike path.Clearly it was a huge waste of money.

[Lucky2Bhere]

Unfortunately the blame lies on the state. The state dictates how the roads and pathways are constructed. If you don't follow their mandates you can't proceed with construction. All town officials in Moultonborough and the pathway committee were firmly dedicated to providing a project that everyone in the Moultonborough neck area would use and be proud of. In spite of the problems with phase 2 why don't we hear from the many people who use and enjoy phase 1 every day? The stones on phase 2 are a definite problem that has everyone involved in the pathway concerned. My guess is that the solution will come from the town, not the state now that construction on that phase is completed.

[Meredith lady]

I rode the "path" just yesterday. What a mess. Maybe the same people who did the roundabout in Meredith had a say in this project...seems like a HUGE waste of taxpayers money.

[Waterbaby]

Since we all have to answere for choices in life.....I'd like to know who or what town agency made the decision to leave gravel between the road and the bike path.Clearly it was a huge waste of money.

I haven't seen it personally, but from the pictures and the comments it wasn't just a huge waste of money but is also costing extra money by the need to continually sweep the gravel/rocks off the path.....