Stormy Weather

[macshpman]

Being fairly new to the boating scene,I would like to hear some feedback as to what to do when caught out on the lake in a storm. This past Sunday was alittle exciting as we were caught in the storm that came thru.The rain and wind does not bother me,its the large bolts of electricity reaching down from the clouds. I would hate to give up a boating day because of threats of T Storms were summer is so short to begin with,on the other hand I dont't wish to make the obit's in the newspaper.

[hockeypuck]

Any port in a storm. You don't want to be the tallest object on the lake.

[pmj]

When storms are predicted, stay close to home port. Take a vhs marine radio for updates from Arnold...ok, I don't think it's Arnold anymore but who ever that voice belongs to..and always keep an eye to the sky.
Keep a bag on board with rain gear. If you have a cabin in your boat have your guests go below if a thunderstorm hits and tell them not to touch any metal.

Taking a Seamanship class will help you learn more tips. The US PowerSquadron holds them once you taking their basic boating course and join up.

[KTO]

I've always been told to (if the storm is bad enough) go immediately to shore, go to the nearest dock (Be it private or public). Most people tend to be welcoming when you're a victim of a storm.

The worst thing to do is head to your destination (unless you are right there)...you can't outrun a storm!

[kayakn]

Rules we try to boat by...

1st...check the radar on the internet and radio.

2nd...make sure you have 2 anchors... 1 bow, 1 stern

3rd...if the weather takes a turn for the worst and you cannot get home, take cover near shore, even someone's mooring and throw out your anchors

most important...put on a life jacket first.

We almost got stuck Sunday late AM in our sailboat, nonmotorized.:eek: Called to get a tow from the kids (isn't that a switch), put our vests on and got in before the storm started. We were lucky.

[ApS]

Even better than a radio forecast is the radio itself.

Tune it to any place on the AM dial and listen for crackling sounds. If the crackling is occasional, go boating, but stay close to home. If the crackling interferes markedly with the broadcast, you'd better be pointed towards the dock already.

Approaching storms let you know by the "crackling" first. It's too late when the next "symptoms" appear...in this order:

1) It gets dark
2) It gets cool
3) The wind drops to nothing :confused:
4) The mountains turn gray from approaching rain
5) The wind has changed direction and picks up speed
6) Colder yet
7) Raindrops
8) Distant thunder :eek2:
9) Heavy rain
10) Lightning, then really loud thunder :eek:

A day that starts off with any wind from the South often ends with those "symptoms".

For the non-powered sailboat—and even when there's no indication of thunderstorms—keep a watch for an approaching line of dark water in the distance. There's usually only enough time to reduce sail and put on the PFD before the wind makes for an exciting ride: it's lake-boating for sure. :emb:

Been there—done that. :)

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

So, if you have the first anchor set (the bow) will you be able to back far enough to properly set the second anchor (stern)? Suppose you don't get the second anchor set and the wind shifts and your anchors fouls, then what?

Please explain how two anchors are going to be better than just one.

BTW: I rather be on my sailboat during a electrical storm, even though it is the tallest thing on the lake.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I was taught (seamanship course) to use a single anchor in storm with sufficient scope. That way you can freely swing as wind direction shifts. A stern anchor is fine in calm conditions, but in a storm (from personal experience) one anchor is the way to go.

[Irrigation Guy]

In regard to anchoring in a wind storm. I took the Coast Guard Auxilliary Course a long while back. If my memory serves me correctly, in a bad wind storm, you use two anchors about 45 degrees apart, thus providing redundancy and two angles that are set. Additionally, you could run lines from your bow/anchoring cleat, to the other cleats on the boat, to further support the bow cleat or replace it should it be pulled out.

This is far beyond what most would likely need on the lake. :D

[Rattlesnake Guy]

We have been coming to the island for 5 years now and 2 weeks ago was the first time I have turned back during the voyage north to the rough side of RS. It was one of those intense cells that came up quick. The rain was light, the waves were not that big but I came completely out of the water from the wind catching the bottom of the boat as I crested a wave.

Not feeling in control, I did a 180 and road out the wind, hail and lightning close to shore in a cove. Ten minutes later it was fine.

Waves don't scare me as much as that wind did. I don't challenge mother nature. She has my respect.

[kayakn]

Oooops, I stand corrected. I meant having 2 anchors off the bow at angles. Thanks for the correction. Did not mean to misinform or mislead. I got shook up remembering one night.

It was a long night some 20+ years ago. No bad weather was predicted. We were out at a friends' on Rattlesnake and headed home on a Sunday evening to Lakeport before it got too late. The lake was very quiet and dark...about 10 PM. Storm blew in on our way. We actually lost sight of mainland while trying to get close to shore. We did get close to anchor. Some of the waves were coming right over the bow and breaking on the windshield. (1965 wooden Century Raven) not a little light boat. Stayed in the small cubby w/jackets on. Was a hairy night, never to be forgotten.

[andyporter]

I've on that lake may times when a storm blows in on a few different boats. Anchoring is a last ditch thing. With all the docks on the lake now you should always try to find one. No one will send you away so don't be shy. If you're new to the lake go take the class before you even get in a boat. Winnipesaukee is not an easy lake to navigate. Our camp is on Bear almost directly across from Kona farm and we have rescued people (rookies) in sailboats and small craft a few times in storms and brought them into our dock until the storm is over. My grandfather's tip was always keep an eye towards Centre Harbor cause thats where the bigs ones come from.

[Kamper]

I'd suggest lowering your antennae and heading towards shore.

Even though lightning has been reported to strike as much as 5 miles from the storm cell, I still try not to stay directly under one.

Most thunderstorm cells are about 1/4-1/2 mile across. If you are caught in one, steering a straight course should get you out. Every situation can be different though so try to plan ahead.

Good luck!

[Rose]

There have actually been lightning strikes over 25 miles from the parent storm. Here's a link to some interesting photos and data plots.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/ltg/crh_boltblue.php

Rose

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

In regard to anchoring in a wind storm. I took the Coast Guard Auxilliary Course a long while back. If my memory serves me correctly, in a bad wind storm, you use two anchors about 45 degrees apart, thus providing redundancy and two angles that are set. Additionally, you could run lines from your bow/anchoring cleat, to the other cleats on the boat, to further support the bow cleat or replace it should it be pulled out.

This is far beyond what most would likely need on the lake. :D

A “Bermuda Lay” style of anchoring would not be appropriate in this case or location. In order for a “Bermuda Lay” to be effective you need; the anchors need be of equal size & style, adequate holding ground and constant wind direction (such as the trade winds). Here on the lake with the typical day cruisers and the short notice of heavy weather you’ll be hard pressed to find any of these conditions. Using more than one anchor during a storm is a recipe for disaster, unless you attach them tandem style.

Having watched the way most boaters on the lake anchor their boats, the best advice is: head for home PDQ… My favorite is: the fellow standing up on the bow, throwing the anchor, chain and the rope as far as he can, then fishing it back in and doing over and over until it hooks on something. Or the one where the boat only has 2 speeds, fast forward or fast reverse and the communications between the bowman and helmsman (or in most cases the “helmslady”) need to be a little better… What a sight, I could watch those antics for hours, great entrainment.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I would add that proper scope is the key.

[Resident 2B]

I would add that proper scope is the key.


A long scope (6:1 or more) along with proper anchor setting are the most imporant factors, if you have to set anchor in a storm.

Obviously, checking the weather radar before your cruise and watching the sky very closely while out there when storms are predicted will keep you out of trouble, most of the time.

When in doubt, get out!

It is far better to stay out of trouble than to have to deal with dangerous boating situations.

Boat safely!

R2B

[fatlazyless]

I know the answer to why WinniDiver would rather be on his sailboat during a lightning storm. It's beacause his boat is that large double masted, black, Chinese junk-rigged sloop and the masts are made from bamboo, and bamboo does not conduct electricity!

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

Maybe this will help: My boat is sloop rigged, with an aluminum spar (61'), 6000lbs of lead keel, S/S shrouds and stays and is bonded.

I love a good storm, it doesn't make any difference whether I'm tied to the dock, on the mooring or off cruising the lake my chances for getting stuck are still the same... Actually I'm far better off than anyone else on or near the lake. Why? This is a really good question; the answer is basic elementary science.

[mcdude]

macshpman:
Ever since I saw the title of this thread I can't get this song out of my mind! (I love listening to old jazz and blues up at the lake!)


Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald

</C3ENTER>Don't know why, there's no sun up in the sky
Stormy weather, since my man and I ain't together
Keeps raining all the time
Life is bare, gloom and misery everywhere
Stormy weather, just can't get my poor old self together
I'm weary all the time, the time, so weary all of the time
When he went away, the blues walked in and met me
If he stays away, old rocking chair will get me
All I do is pray, the lord above will let me
walk in the sun once more
Can't go on, everything I had is gone
Stormy weather, since my man and I ain't together
Keeps raining all the time
Keeps raining all of the time

[ApS]

"...Anchoring is a last ditch thing. With all the docks on the lake now you should always try to find one. No one will send you away so don't be shy..."
Agreed. Sunday, due to the lightning, I unplugged the computer and turned away to locate some postage stamps. When I returned to the desk, I saw a bow-rider barely tied to my dock—tube still attached—and no people. :confused:

Because of the lightning, I checked downstairs for people, and even my truck for people—then phoned my neighbor. No luck. Since I thought there might have been storm-related injuries, I thought of telephoning the MPs, but noticed the boat had no numbers! :confused:

Soon after the storm passed, the mystery was solved: after four years of building it, my new neighbor's house finally got its first tenant.

Upon their first hour of arrival, they had been tubing during the storm—until the line caught in the propeller! Powerless, they'd drifted the 100' to my dock. (And New Jersey-registered boats don't require numbers, I learned).

Still, I think any lake resident would shelter any boater caught out in a thunderstorm. But be aware—first—of the thunderstorm warning signs previously outlined.

[Dave R]

Maybe this will help: My boat is sloop rigged, with an aluminum spar (61'), 6000lbs of lead keel, S/S shrouds and stays and is bonded.

I love a good storm, it doesn't make any difference whether I'm tied to the dock, on the mooring or off cruising the lake my chances for getting stuck are still the same... Actually I'm far better off than anyone else on or near the lake. Why? This is a really good question; the answer is basic elementary science.


Because the mast and shrouds (if bonded) will generally divert a strike and provide a cone of protection extending out and down from the highest point at a 60 degree angle to the mast and shrouds. Electricity generally takes the easiest path so it'll typically flow on the skin of the mast and shrouds between the lake and the sky when present in the protective cone. That said, really high voltage can do some unpredictable things and fresh water is a lousy conductor so there's always a chance one could get struck by a direct bolt or a branch bolt even when under the protectection of the mast, especially is one happens to be part of an easier path...

If you find yourself in a storm, it would be wise to get within a sailboat mast's protective cone.

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

You left out one very important element in the equation. It is the one thing that allows me to feel more conformable being on this sail boat than most other boats. I’ll give you the key word again "bonded". For those who don't know what the word bonded means; all the components of the spar system are connected to the external lead keel by a wire, actually a bunch of wires. Why? Get is right and I’ll tell you the story of how I personally know it works…. The story links cows, sailboats and wild storms with lighting and dark of night.

[Dave R]

You left out one very important element in the equation. It is the one thing that allows me to feel more conformable being on this sail boat than most other boats. I’ll give you the key word again "bonded". For those who don't know what the word bonded means; all the components of the spar system are connected to the external lead keel by a wire, actually a bunch of wires. Why? Get is right and I’ll tell you the story of how I personally know it works…. The story links cows, sailboats and wild storms with lighting and dark of night.


Might wanna re-read what I wrote. I used "bonded" in the first line of text. It's to put all the metal components in the lightning protection scheme (in this interpretation) at the same potential as the water.

I've often thought about bonding my bimini poles to my stern drive so that they act as a partial Faraday cage, just in case.

I was hit by two branch lightning bolts in a 5 minute span during a wild storm a few weeks ago while on my motorcycle. It was awful (and painful) and has made me very nervous around thunderstorms.

You owe me a story! :D

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

I'm off to slay the heat dragon in Portsmouth now (fix an A/C system), but I will write you the story of the importance of "bonding" later today. That's if, I have any fingers left after dealing with the Wicked Witch of the North (you know how tuff some customers can be when their slaves are uncomfortable).
Oh, did I leave out the 3’ antenna on top of the mast; it’s a big player in this equation as well…??? Yup, I did, sorry

[macshpman]

Thanks for the feedback and if and when I am in that position again, I will feel better about heading towards a stange dock and tying up to ride out the storm. See you on the lake

[CanisLupusArctos]

When I took the Wilderness EMT course at SOLO in North Conway they taught us to think of the danger-zone of the storm as being up to 20 miles in front of it. That is where most lightning strikes occur. They said the best thing is to take the shortest distance to port, if you can do so quickly. If you can't, (like if you're in the middle of The Broads) then you'd want to head towards the storm as fast as possible and get through to the other side. It raised a lot of eyebrows in the class but the instructors said it minimizes the amount of time the boater spends in the danger zone ahead of the storm.

A few years ago I got to ask a few questions of the late Capt. John Pettingill of the MOUNT. He said the ship had been struck by lightning several times. When I asked what happened he said nothing, usually. It hits the highest point on the ship and flows down the outside of the ship's metal hull and then to the surface of the lake. The electronics on board may be at risk from being fried though. I guess if you're in an all-metal enclosed boat it would be just like being in a car, the metal would direct the charge around you. Just don't stick your arms outside and don't touch anything metal.

Best way is prevention as others in this thread have mentioned. Bookmark the National Weather Service web site for northern New England...

www.nws.noaa.gov/er/gyx

Since most thunderstorms on Winni move from W to E, check to see if storms are in Grafton County (from Lebanon to Plymouth) and if they are, it's probably not a good idea to venture too far from shore.

Another site I find REALLY useful in tracking lightning storms is www.weathertap.com. You have to subscribe (it's like $5/month) but among other imagery it gives you a nice lightning-strike map of the northeast that refreshes every couple of minutes by itself.

The AM radio trick APS mentioned works well as a lightning detector. If you're into fancy gadgets they also make personal lightning detectors that tell you about how far away the storm is before you even see/hear it. Go to www.ambientweather.com and do a search for "Lightning Detector." They run from $60 to $400 depending on how many buttons they have for you to play with.

[Misty Blue]

There is a NHMP Auxilirist who maintains a radio watch on the Lake. He goes by Mighty Mo II and monitors the weather radios as well. When he gets word of an approaching storm (he uses the AM radio trick too) he puts out a warning broadcast on VHF channel 16. People report to him from around the Lake and he has very spcific information for the various parts of the Lake that you may be on.

If you hear the warning, head for home. If you can't make it either find a sheltered cove and anchor or find a friendly dock to put up on. I have done this with a vessel in tow. We put both boats up on a strangers dock to ride out the storm. A few minutes later we were on their porch watching the storm and making new friends. Unfortunately I was on duty and had to skip the cocktails!

Misty Blue.

[Coolbreeze]

Wow! great information from the above posters. My advice read the clouds and listen to the weather forecasts. If you are in a spot where you can't make it to home, GET OFF THE LAKE until the storms go away. Plus, it is a great way to meet people. We have never turned away a boater who got caught in a storm that has pulled up to our dock seeking shelter and protection, and never will.

[ApS]

"Reading the clouds" Saturday was helpful.

About 11AM, the lowest clouds were heading north, and fast. The next layer of clouds above it were heading south, also fast. According to "Ballot's Law", flows of clouds at two levels (either opposed, or the same direction) means three hours of nice weather to follow. (If the clouds' paths cross, the weather will change soon).

The weather stayed very nice until clouding up mid-afternoon—almost "on cue". There was a good crowd of boaters taking advantage of the mid-day sun, too. :coolsm:

This thread is instructive when thinking "anchor" in stormy Winnipesaukee weather: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforum/archive1.cgi?noframes;read=62528 :eek:

[macshpman]

Looks like Josh Judge is giving today the thumbs up. Finally a play day that is awesome in the weather dept. Looking forward to towing the tube,drowning some worms and spending a beautiful day on the lake with the familiy. See you all out there. :D

[andyporter]

If you anchor during a bad storm you are a sitting duck. You are still on the water so you're not safe from lightning or the large waves that can form. If its raining hard your boat is gonna start filling with water which sucks. It will probably be kinda cold as well. And the worst thing is your anchor or anchors that people seem so proud of positioning correctly(silly if you ask me) will probably get wedged under a huge rock and you will never see them again without some scuba gear. Go to a dock. Get off the water!

[ApS]

"...Looks like Josh Judge is giving today the thumbs up..."
:eek: The Saturday forecast changed overnight (http://www.wunderground.com/US/NH/Wolfeboro.html?bannertypeclick=sunandmoon) from 30% chance of rain to 50% chance—with 70% chance called for Sunday. :confused:

[Pineedles]

I for one would have no problem with a boater tying up at my dock if the weather was bad. I know its a crap shoot as to who and who wouldn't object, but my guess is that the majority of the shore front owners would be OK with it.:)

[Winnipesaukee]

A storm? Perfect sailing weather!!! Except for the whole aluminum mast thing. :rolleye1:

[sgold44]

Saturday was a beautiful afternoon to boat. We were out from 2:00 TO 9:30. One shower around 7:30.

Sunday was even better. We left Alton bay at 10:00 a.m., returned around 3:30. Calm, warm & sunny.

Gotta love those forecasters!!:cool:

[macshpman]

I was able to enjoy one day on the lake last weekend. My sister and a employee of mine went out for the day. I was thinking that being at the launch in Meredith by 7:00 would be early enough to miss the start of the boat show but was wrong in thinking that. So we traveled alittle further to Center Harbor and found no waiting line at the launch. Alittle rain shower in the early afternoon and then it started to clear up nicely making it a very enjoyable day out there. I didn't even let the passing boat that were under full power less then 150" feet from us bother me. It was still better then being at work.

[Rose]

Gotta love those forecasters!!:cool:

Here's a site with weather maps. I look forward to your forecast later this evening. :rolleye1:

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/ewall.html

[CanisLupusArctos]

Back in the 1980s, I remember there was a lake boating forecast. The National Weather Service issued one (I think) and there were also a couple of meteorologists who had phone recordings they updated daily with their own marine forecast for Lake Winni.

Does anyone know what happened to those?