Our best assets are moving out

[fatlazyless]

Today's Laconia Daily Sun had its' lead article on how the towns of Belknap County are spending lots to educate their students and then a large number move away to college or a job and do not stay in the area. It's like, well.....we work so hard to educate them, and then they all leave. Our best assets are moving out. The article talked about the greying of New Hampshire and the aging......eek.... baby boomers. Maybe the state can change its' name from New Hampshire to Cow Hampshire to Grey Hampshire.....boo-hoo!

New Hampshire is the only state in the country which imposes property taxes on schools above the twelfth grade. About 15 private colleges, state wide, have closed up in the past 40 years. Belknap County used to have Gunstock College and Belknap College. A number of parochial-church affiliated high schools as well as private high schools like the Holderness School and New Hampton School all benefit from their tax-exempt status. So, it makes me wonder, how does Dartmouth College manage to survive in NH for so long?

This little paper, the Laconia Daily Sun is something like a 20 page tabloid which I think has been out for seven years now and it does a much better job than the Citizen of Laconia, a daily, and the Meredith News, a weekly, in its coverage and writing of Lakes Region governmental meetings and political issues. A free give-a-way, not on the internet, published Mon-Sat, and has lots of display and classified ads; so probably has lots of readers, too.

[Dave R]

It's a sign of a high cost-of-living area with little in the way of high paying jobs.

It's kind of ironic that non-residents, who tend to live in areas convenient to high paying jobs, pay a huge portion of the taxes to fund the education for the residents, who then leave to get jobs where the pays is. Maybe someday they'll be back to Summer in their 2nd homes on the lake and pay the taxes to educate anpother generation or two of people who will do the same thing...

Wonder if that's already happened... Anybody on the forum grow up in the lakes Region, move away to find a good salary, save enough of said salary to buy a place on the lake, and then come back as a non-resident or retired resident?

[feb]

Count me in. I grew up in Tilton, moved away for 15 years, and bought a place on the lake 5 years ago. Ever since I moved I couldn't wait to get back, if only for the warm seasons. My goal is to be back in the area full time. But like the article referenced, the jobs aren't there. Sure the cost of living is a little less but not relative to the paycut.

[vrrooom]

I have lived in the lakes region for over 20 years, but never found jobs that paid well here. I work for companies all over the world, returning to the lake on weekends. Why do we have this problem, well it is quite simple, NH politicians do not care about providing good jobs. They pay lip service to job creation; take for example the Airbus center that was proposed for Pease. NH would not provide any $$ to subsidise the business, well someone else did, and almost 1000 engineering and aircraft mechanics jobs went south. We need agressive, funded economic development, led by experienced business people (they are already here, and just need to be engaged by the state). As long as the NH advantage is recreation, things will be as they are now, and education will continue to decline slowly over time.

[dpg]

I'd move up in a minute and do not make "big money" by any means but still couldn't match my salary.:rolleye1:

[CanisLupusArctos]

Other popular tourist areas nationwide are facing the same problem - for example, friends in Jackson Hole tell me it's getting really bad there. The population is very quickly becoming non-workers, yet there is work to be done.

About 8 months ago I read an article on the front page of the Boston Globe that said New England, in general, was losing its younger families and recent college grads to cheaper areas of the country.

One of my friends in MA just became one of them - she and her husband were working so much to make ends meet that they weren't living anymore, just existing. As they packed up the car and moved to Texas a few months ago she said she was going to miss New England, but the high prices weren't worth the grief. They sold their small house in Haverhill and bought an average-sized house in Texas (huge by our standards) for a quarter of their Haverhill sale price. She says they actually have enough time to see each other now.

Now that I think of it, I saw the same kind of story on NBC Nightly News last summer.

[Weirs guy]

No worries, the Lowes, Home Depots and Wal-Marts of the world will spring up all over the Lakes Region and create all types of new jobs. Oh, wait, you guys said "high paying" new jobs? My bad.

I agree, all the new jobs that the local governments are attracting to this area are either low paying retail jobs or soon-to-be outsourced manufacturing jobs. We need to attract the same high tech jobs the southern part of the state is. So how do we do that???

[CanisLupusArctos]

We need to attract the same high tech jobs the southern part of the state is. So how do we do that???

Let's form a company that designs and builds boats, snowmobiles, all-weather airplanes, marine radios, life jackets, anchors, high-tech bobhouses, web cams, medical equipment for treating vacaton injuries, forecasts weather for the lakes region, and invents environmentally-friendly ways of conducting tourism...

[Dave R]

Let's form a company that designs and builds boats, snowmobiles, all-weather airplanes, marine radios, life jackets, anchors, high-tech bobhouses, web cams, medical equipment for treating vacaton injuries, forecasts weather for the lakes region, and invents environmentally-friendly ways of conducting tourism...

I'm in. I bet we could offshore the design work to India, the manufacturing to China, sell direct on the Internet, and make a bundle of money. :(

[Irish mist]

I don't see this as just some "lakes region" isuue, it's more of a cultural issure. Always, in every rural area of the country, young people long for the excitment of the city lights. You cold move 5,000 high paying jobs to the lakes and most of the well-educated young people are "still" going to leave......it's the nature of youth.
________
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[gtxrider]

There was a time that southern New Hampshire and northern Mass. was a high tech area. What happened? Industry moves where it is cheaper. When the company I work for opened two centers 15 or more years ago they went south and west. The northeast was out of the running.

[Mickomally]

Some of the posts here have hit the nail directly on the head.
I was born and raised locally, and am 5th generation. I went to local schools, and a NH university.
Yet I feel like I am being "forced out". I have the education, and work ethic, but I cannot find a job that pays enough to raise a family and own a home. My fiance and I are both college grads, both work over 40 hours a week, and both have dreams of raising a family in the lakes region. Yet we both admit we probably will have to move.
The well-paying jobs aren't here, yet the cost of living isn't low enough to compinsate for that.
All of my friends who went to college have left, or are struggling to get by locally. Those who left are making much better salaries than myself, and to be honest that is depressing. It seems the lakes region have been losing the status of "bedroom comunities", in lieu of "resort communities".
Its just a fact of life. The lakes region we all know and love will continue to change. I figure in 20 years there will be a mix of Bigbox urban sprawl, and seasonal communities.
Sad but True

[gravy boat]

My husband and I must be anomolies, as we both found well-paying jobs and live in Gilford. While I commute to Manchester (1 hour each way), my husband works from home 4 days/week and the other day heads to the office about 90 minutes away. While most people prefer to stay within 15 minutes of home, we consider it a compromise. We get to come home to a log cabin in Gilford every night, head down the road 2 miles to ski in winter, and head over the Acres a few miles to our family cabin on the lake in W. Alton.

What we do for work every day has a lot to do with it as we can find a job just about anyplace -- we consider ourselves very fortunate.

It can be done -- you just need to do the research and compromise here and there.

Gravy

[Lakegeezer]

While not a complete answer, telecommuting jobs are on the increase, and will help the lakes region to some extent. These jobs require high-speed internet connections (widely available now) and reasonable access to an airport (Manchester is under 2 hours away). It may be another 5 years before the trend is strong enough to notice, but its quietly happening now. Its still a competitive market though. Jackson Hole competes for the same telecommuter as do hundreds of spots that used to be only tourist spots. The lake does its own marketing, but it would be nice to see local politicians recognize the opportunity and help promote the area for a new style of worker.

These knowledge workers, along the local kids who stick around, will breed the next batch of kids to be educated. Maybe the population of full-time residents will go down a bit over the next generation, which is sad, but with less pressure on the schools, the tax rate increases may level off.

[SIKSUKR]

Boy,what a picture of doom and gloom some of you people paint.I have lived here all of my 48 years,own companies that prosper here and think that the quality of life is second to none. FLL's NH bashing is getting really old.It can't be that bad or he would have left long ago.I guess some people just can't see how good we have it here.PEOPLE,get out there and move to other areas of this country and see for yourself if it's so bad here.Wa Wa Wa.My glass is half FULL!!

[TomC]

Boy,what a picture of doom and gloom some of you people paint......My glass is half FULL!!


Any discussion that includes any reference to the infamous "THEY".. makes me shake my head in wonder.. THEY ought to open factories and give me a job... THEY have outsourced my job... THEY ought to do something about it..

Maybe THEY is in the mirror, and THEY is YOU!!!

If you want to earn living in NH, then start a business and run it the way you like. With freedom comes choices and responsibility... Don't wait for a faceless THEY to take care of you. It didn't work in the USSR either...

[ITD]

Boy,what a picture of doom and gloom some of you people paint.I have lived here all of my 48 years,own companies that prosper here and think that the quality of life is second to none. FLL's NH bashing is getting really old.It can't be that bad or he would have left long ago.I guess some people just can't see how good we have it here.PEOPLE,get out there and move to other areas of this country and see for yourself if it's so bad here.Wa Wa Wa.My glass is half FULL!!

Thank You SS, you are living proof the American Dream is still out there, ripe for the picking, even in the Lakes Region. We are constantly bombarded by negative people telling us how bad things are out there. But all you have to do is look, there are many shining examples that hard, smart work pays off. If you really want it, find what you are good at and get it, chances are you'll be successful. If you wait for it to fall in your lap, chances are you won't be successful. If you feel entitled to it, and get your way at our expense, we all lose.

[Weirs guy]

If you want to earn living in NH, then start a business and run it the way you like. With freedom comes choices and responsibility... Don't wait for a faceless THEY to take care of you. It didn't work in the USSR either...

So your idea for retaining a young, well educated and/or skilled workforce in the lakes region is for all of them to open their own businesses?

[Irish mist]

The WRONG question was asked here to start with. Rural areas, by their very nature, don't have large, young, skilled work forces. You find that in the city. If this area ever has such a work force in the future then you will know that central NH now looks like Salem NH.......no thanks.

Like I said earlier.......well-educated youth, and not so well-educated youth in general, and in large numbers, yearn for the excitement of city life.. They leave Kentucy, they leave North Dakota, they leave Maine, and they leave EVERY rural area in America......it's the way of things. To try and waste time changing it is like trying to change human nature.

Of course we could rip central NH apart.......wall to wall strip malls, business on every corner, and them perhaps some will stay.....but at what price, what do we lose ? I suggest we will lose everything......again, think southern NH......
________
Mercedes-benz m156 engine specifications (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M156_engine)

[SteveA]

Intresting information. Some of the previous posts on this thread seem to have been right on!

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/CITIZEN_01/103010252/-1/CITIZEN

From The Citizen 3-2-07

[fatlazyless]

That's right, I'm going to be driving an 18 wheeler in my 70's and 80's, but probably not my 90's or 100's, just so's I can pay my Meredith property taxes. If you see me out on Route 93, wave to me and I'll wave back. If you are a hot lookn' babe, I'll wave back with both hands!

To pay the tax on my 55' of Winni waterfront, I be pulln' a 53' trailer from Groveton to Tallahassee and back.


Jeepers-Creepers, in 2037, I wonder about the Meredith prop taxes and if Senator Judd 'Easy-Money' Gregg will run again for another six years?

[secondcurve]

Fatlazyles:

The good news is that you won't be paying ANY INCOME TAX on your six figure salary. At a $100,000 salary, you will be SAVING $5,300.00 as compared to the stiff doing the same job in Massachusetts and $7,000 as compared to the stiff doing the job in Maine. I'd consider myself lucky to live in a low tax burden state like NH. Now, don't your property taxes seem reasonable?

[fatlazyless]

In the past three years, the assessed value of my quarter acre Winnipesaukee lot and two-bed cottage has gone from 240 to 801k, and the taxes have gone from 2800 to 10,000/year. No lien holder, just me and the town! So no, I would much prefer a 3.33% income tax and much lower property taxes.

New Hampshire retirees and older home owners who have paid off a 30 year mortgage are now seeing property taxes that are higher than their old monthly mortgage payments. How do they pay it?

Taxes should be based on earned income including pensions and capital gains, like it is done by 44 other states and the IRS.

[vrrooom]

Some people think an Income Tax will result in lower property taxes, let the facts speak:
1-No state that insitiuted an income tax has been able to reduce property taxes for more than a few years
2-Income tax revenues are like honey to legislators and lobbists, they spend time figuring out how to spend more and more
3-The income tax burden in NH will fall on centeral and northern NH exclusively due to giving credit for taxes paid to ajoining states.
4-Special interests will provide loop holes in the tax code to benefit their consituency. Which special intersts are protecting you?:D

Live free of income tax forever, it will keep our state lean and some would say mean.:emb:

[ITD]

Less, you're complaining??:confused: , sounds to me like you haven't been paying your fair share for a long time and now you are.

Maybe an alternative solution could be that people be allowed to pay taxes on the value of their property they feel appropriate, in your case Less $240k, BUT when you sell the property must be sold at fair market value and you keep only $240k , what you paid taxes on, the rest goes to the state.

[secondcurve]

"In the past three years, the assessed value of my quarter acre Winnipesaukee lot and two-bed cottage has gone from 240 to 801k"

Fatlazyless:

What a great return. Why don't you sell and move a couple of streets back and pocket the difference and enjoy lower property taxes? Most folks would be happy about this situation. Another alternative would be to get a part time job. Either way, isn't it great to have alternatives?

[Skip]

Wow Less.....don't look a gift horse in the mouth, you are getting a fantastic deal here!

Do you realize how many people across the State, especially in the seacoast area, would kill to be only paying $10K per year on an assesed property value of $800K?

Look at the bright side, you are finally paying your fair share to the community....just as Senator Gregg paid his fair share to society when he paid hundreds of thousand of dollars in federal income taxes on his powerball winnings!

I thank both of you immensely for your tireless contributions.....;)

[LIforrelaxin]

Live free of income tax forever, it will keep our state lean and some would say mean.:emb:

With the current funding issues for Fish and Game the Marine Patrol and most importantly the Schools I would say this motto doesn't hold much water.....

Whether it is by adding an income or sales tax, or by increase property taxes, the state is and towns are going to get there money. And Vrrooom is right the more the have the more they will spend.... what people have to think about is what is the best way to spread the pain of paying for the government. If you just keep increasing property tax the only ones effected are land owners..... if you add a income tax only people earning wages in the state or living in the state are effected.... but if you add a sales tax anybody that visits or lives in the state is effected and will generate a lot of revenue.... Taxes are a reality... we may not like them ...... what the people of NH need to think about is this.... the property taxes can keep going up and they will to the point where NH becomes an elitest state where the common man can't afford to live (and I know people who don't live on lakes that are feeling the pain of high property taxes).... or NH can chose to start to look at new tax schemes to generate addition revenue....

In short Property taxes are not going down.... but it is possible to prevent them from continuing to spiral higher at unbelievable rates.....

[RI Swamp Yankee]

That property in RI would be valued about $1.2 million if it just had a view of the water. 1.2mill times 16 per thousand... you owe $19,200 to the town ... Oh .... take 30% of what you send Uncle Sam and send that to the state. Also take 7% of what you spand in Walmart and send that to the state.

[Fargo]

I graduated from Laconia High and went off to college in the 70's. After the college experience I couldn't wait to get out of the area due to the lack of opportunities, variety and poor service at all levels. Over the last 37 years I still don't see many opportunities north of Manchester for young people and the bar hasn't risen, if there even is a bar. NH will eventually go broke taking care of the elderly if we can't attract young people to stay and contribute to the economy. I'm 57, sleep in Laconia on weekends and travel out of state M-F because we can't afford or care to live here 7 days a week. What's a young person to do?

[dpg]

What we do for work every day has a lot to do with it as we can find a job just about anyplace -- we consider ourselves very fortunate.

It can be done -- you just need to do the research and compromise here and there.

Gravy

Gravy Boat - What do you do for work if you don't mind me asking?