I heard on the news that there was a boat accident...

[Dave R]

Any details? They said three teens crashed a boat 30 feet onto the shore near Eagle Island and that injuries were minor. Thinking they may have been violating the 600 foot rule...

[Weekend Pundit]

Yeah, they did a pretty good job of wrecking it. I swung by there around 1PM today and it's still there. They had to be going at a pretty good clip to make it up as far as they did. I have no idea how they'll get it off the island.

[jetskier]

Amazing!

My wife took her safe boating course today through the Power Squadron. This accident was a topic of conversation.

Jetskier

[LIforrelaxin]

Wow....any body here how big of a boat this was....and 30' onto the island....Wow......and last but not least.....did they have insurence...I am not sure I even want to know what the cost is going to be to get the boat out of there..........

[Airwaves]

I found this on Laconia Citizen online. 24 foot boat, two teens and a 20 year old on board, an 18 year old arrested for BWI.

The boat traveled 15 feet onto shore into trees, no serious injuries. (God protects drunks and fools!)

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060611/CITIZEN0102/106110086/-1/CITIZEN

You may need a login to read the article.

Just FYI, I am keeping track of boating accidents/fatalities that whind up in the news just to see how they break down, no pun intended! :-)

[Resident 2B]

From what I saw, the stern was about 10 to 15 feet into the island and the boat was 24 feet long, so the bow was 35 to 40 feet in.

Although a sad day for the boat, those on board were very lucky! The removal will not be easy if they remove it in one piece.

R2B

[jrc]

According to what I read it happened around 3AM and the Mt Washinton just happened to be returning to the Weirs. The Captain of the Mount reported the accident. Drunk, 18 and out at 3AM with mom's boat, could this kid be more stupid. Thankfully no one was killed.

BTW What was the Mount doing out at that time?

[Woodsy]

The news also reported that the MP will be conducting sobriety checks this weekend.

(Deleted false info... )

Thankfully nobody was seriously injured.

Woodsy

[donnamatrix]

The Mount had a private charter for the evening, graduating high school class from Exeter. They were supposed to get backa to the Weirs at least 1 hour earlier, but couldn't round up all the kids in time.

[DoTheMath]

I agree - thankfully no one that wasn't involved with this crew was injured! 18, drunk and out in mom's boat - at 3am no less... I hope the judge makes a nice example of this kid - for all to see, esp. his two buddies!!! I feel no sympathy for him... he sould be sitting in county right now thanking his lucky stars that he is able to be sitting in county, thanking his lucky stars. Careless - :mad:

[Mee-n-Mac]

Any details? They said three teens crashed a boat 30 feet onto the shore near Eagle Island and that injuries were minor. Thinking they may have been violating the 600 foot rule...

Yes, by about 635' I'd say :rolleye1: Where on Eagle I did it hit ?

[ThePlut]

Funny thing, if I had done something like this as an 18 year old, the judge wouldn't have had to bother sentenceing me, because my old man wouldn't have left enough of me to put in jail, or anywhere else for that matter...

[LSBA Joker]

...and if the nighttime speed limit had been enacted (as it shoudl have) one could assume, there would have been one more charge added.

[ITD]

...and if the nighttime speed limit had been enacted (as it shoudl have) one could assume, there would have been one more charge added.

Oh, that would have prevented the whole accident, seeing as how concerned this guy was with all the other laws he broke:rolleye2: , give me a break.

[KPW]

Oh, that would have prevented the whole accident, seeing as how concerned this guy was with all the other laws he broke:rolleye2: , give me a break.

No one said it would have prevented it - they stated that it would have added a charge.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Funny thing, if I had done something like this as an 18 year old, the judge wouldn't have had to bother sentenceing me, because my old man wouldn't have left enough of me to put in jail, or anywhere else for that matter... Ditto for me. And therein lies a lot of the problem. Too many parents say "not my Johnny" :rolleye2:

[DoTheMath]

Funny thing, if I had done something like this as an 18 year old, the judge wouldn't have had to bother sentenceing me, because my old man wouldn't have left enough of me to put in jail, or anywhere else for that matter...


Yep - you and me both! And he only had to tell me that one time - and it has stuck with me to this day...

[Woodsy]

...and if the nighttime speed limit had been enacted (as it shoudl have) one could assume, there would have been one more charge added.

I was wondering when HB-162 would appear in this thread...

HB-162 or any nighttime speed limit would not have added another charge... just a speeding ticket. Thats IF the MP could determine CONCLUSIVELY that the boat was traveling in excess of 25 MPH.

I think they probably have enough with the BWI charges. No doubt they could threaten reckless/negligent operation as well because there were minor injuries and serious property damage.


Woodsy

[jrc]

I went by there today. Looks like the boat was coming from the Weirs area. It's on that side of Eagle, facing roughly east. I tried to get a picture but my zoom really could get close enough, just looks like a light spot in the trees.

I never really notice the rocks before but it does kind of look like a ramp. Perfect to get airborne.

[ApS]

...and if the nighttime speed limit had been enacted (as it shoudl have) one could assume, there would have been one more charge added.

Yes, navigating at a sane speed could have resulted in no collision.

I see three potential charges remaining:

1) Reckless operation
2) Failure to maintain a proper watch
3) BWI

One recent year showed only 2 BWI C-O-N-V-I-C-T-I-O-N-S...for the entire state.

One more charge could affect the attitude of this youth on the future safety of his passengers, boat, and the property of others.

(That is, if the falling electrical wires wasn't attitude adjustment enough.):eek:

[Aquadeziac]

Lets see....a 24' boat almost 50' ashore,after hitting the rocks. THATS pretty CONCLUSIVE he was doing more than 25 MPH. Ya think??:D

[Airwaves]

Yes, this boat was traveling at more than 25 MPH at 3am, with an underage drunk at the helm!

So, the 45/25 law would have prevented this how?

Where did an 18 year old get enough booze to get drunk? etc., etc.

50 feet on shore?

The Laconia Citizen reported 15 feet. So did the boat overshoot the island altogether?

No, This accident was a very bad thing.

A drunk teenager took his mother's boat and slamed into an island. Thank God they were not seriously hurt and no one on Eagle Island was hurt.

So what is the boy, Mom and the other folks on the boat, going to be charged with?

I have been keeping track of the accidents that "make the news" and this is the first one in NH involving a recreational powerboat. It is not the first boating accident in NH this year.

When I get back from vacation I will post my findings if Don does not object. I was going to wait until the end of the season to do it.

(I'll be at the lake from sometime tomorrow (Tuesday) until Sunday for anyone who would like to hail me)

[jrc]

....So what is the boy, Mom and the other folks on the boat, going to be charged with?...

We as a society are really not equipped to punish for what might have been.

My guesses:

The son/operator/pilot:

BWI (probably first offence) and probably reckless operation, plus some minor violations, like No wake zone. If he's lucky, just a big fine, loss of license and loss of right to operate a boat. If he's unlucky, maybe community service, or very worst case a few days in jail.

Financially responsible for damage to the boat, and island property, and for salvage of the boat.

Mom/Owner:

No criminal issues. She loaned a boat to her son that's not a crime. (Is it a crime to loan a boat to a person without a boat ed cert, I don't know? For that matter I don't know if he had one)

Probably, some financial responsibility, as the owner, for damage to the boat, and island property, and for salvage of the boat. Probably has insurance to cover most of it. ( again maybe some insurance issues if son doesn't have boat ed cert)

Passengers:
One charge as a minor in possession of alcohol. That's a small fine. The other not charged. They shouldn't have any financial issues unless they bought the booze or something.

All in all pretty minor consequences for what could have been a tragedy.

BTW I'm guessing on the mother/son relationship based on last names and age. I haven't seen it written anywhere.

[Phantom]

As so many of you post some AWESOME photo's throughout the year (I particularly enjoyed the retrieval of a snowmobile) -- Won't somebody get a couple of shots of this -- being stuck here in Mass this is driving me bonkers trying to figure out (exactly) where and how they could have "blown it" like they did.

I can imagine them slicing through the Rocks on the Merideth side of Eagle (FL#44 side)-- but to hit the island itself ?? Me-thinks they had no idea/clue of the Lake. If in fact they were coming from the Channel (highly likely) even the most inexperianced knows that there is a tight passage out yonder. And to add to that, if they were out boating during the day - now a No Wake Zone to be looking for. A Witches hit I can buy (sorta) -- but Eagle !! Man, I would love to be a fly on the wall when he tries to explain that one away -- and drunk or not (and I am NOT condoning that) THAT'S way way way off course.

As a parent - I'm glad they are all okay........ Hope the lesson of the incident gets out far and wide -- but I sorta doubt that too. As on the highway late at night - Drive Defensively!!

Anyway -- enough ramblim .... PLEASE post some pic's ... good or bad ... close or far

[Woodsy]

Yes, navigating at a sane speed could have resulted in no collision.

I disagree with the above statement...

Navigating at 3 am SOBER would have resulted in NO COLLISION....

This is just another case of AIS (Alcohol Induced Stupidity) The real issue here is not how fast they were traveling, but how impaired they were.

I find it interesting that there was no mention of the driver having the REQUIRED Safe Boater Certificate.

Woodsy

[jrc]

He hit the island dead center. This not a reaction time issue. He was too drunk to keep a proper lookout and didn't see the island. I'm not convinced he was going all that fast. The fact that no one was seriously injured, and the boat is pretty much in one piece, point to a moderate speed. I'm guessing they find the boat in forward gear, and that he never even tried to stop.

[Aquadeziac]

Maybe the only reason they caught him was cuz.....he couldn't back off the island!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Mee-n-Mac]

Maybe the only reason they caught him was cuz.....he couldn't back off the island!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Aaaahh, how different this kids life would have been had only his parents had the foresight to get one of these (http://www.aquada.co.uk/humdinga.php) for their speedboat. ;) :D Not a humdinger of an accident, but a Humdinga for an accident !

[DoTheMath]

What gets me on this is... if I was the insurance company I'd have a clause in the contract that states, "all coverage is null and void if you are stupid enough to go out and get hammered, get into a boat and drive it wide open into an island"! All of this should be nice out-of-pocket expense for the owner / driver and then maybe his mommy can take it out of his allowance!? If I did something THIS careless (and just plain dumb) at his age, my old man - being a decorated Marine sharp-shooter that he is - would have creamed me!! Never mind johnny-law, I'd take the time in the big house over time in my house...

[Lakegeezer]

The kid made a mistake, and hopefully it will change his life. I don't see much of a difference between this incident and the hundreds of similar cases that happen on NH highways each year. Drunk teenager crashes vehicle. What's new about that!? Many are lucky, many are not. This is an age old problem - especially around graduation season. Its another opportunity for the current crop of kids to see that stupid is as stupid does. It can happen in boats just like it can happen in cars. OK - the forum will get excited for a few days because this almost never happens in boats. Its unusual when a drunk crashes a boat and its different to see pictures of a boat driven 15 feet onto an island rather than a car tumbled over a road enbankment. Hopefully, the kid will be punished in a similar way to those who drunk-crash their cars. Let's be thankful that Darwin was asleep that night. Those three kids could be the honored guests at a coffin planting ceremony today. Instead, they get to live the rest of their lives as a gift.

[jrc]

The driver had some remarkable bad luck, which will at least allow some justice. If not for the amazing coincidence of the Mount being right there at 3AM, he would have got off scott free. Without the Mount seeing them, they would have been stuck on the island until dawn. By then they would likely be sober. Without the booze this is just an accident. Insurance company fixes the boat. all is forgiven. As another accident showed, it's hard to prove BUI after the fact.

Do auto or boat insurance companies refuse coverage of accidents caused by drunks? I don't ever remember seeing that in the policy. Auto insurance at least is regulated by the state, I don't know about boat insurance.

[OFD232]

Now if I had crashed my parents boat like that I would have had a couple options
1 Commit crime and tell on partners and join Witness Protection Program
2 Volunteer to be first man on Pluto
3 Be come a monk in tibet

ANDI'm Still not sure my parents would not have found me to provide a truely rewarding spirtual experience:rolleye1:

[Mee-n-Mac]

Now if I had crashed my parents boat like that I would have had a couple options
1 Commit crime and tell on partners and join Witness Protection Program
2 Volunteer to be first man on Pluto
3 Become a monk in Tibet

AND I'm still not sure my parents would not have found me to provide a truely rewarding spirtual experience:rolleye1:

Yup, prison time would have been the prefered option vs dealing with my father had I ever done that. Ever summer I still hear about the time I busted the windshield off the ole Glastron whilst out jumping the "short" Mount's wake. :eek: And that was some 30++ years ago ! :emb: :devil:

*oh yeah, he would have said "I brought you into this world and I can take you out. And it don't make no difference to me, I'll make another one look just like you."

[jimbob1603]

I guess Darwin's theory doesn't always work ......

[Aquadeziac]

The one question I would like answered is: 'Did mommy give Jr permission to take the boat out?' Or did they get drunk and figure they would go for a joyride and mommy would never find out? No other boats out at 3am right? We can have it tied back at the dock before the sun comes up, right? :laugh: :laugh:

[Sparrow Hawk]

This reminds me of a funny story that happened to a friend, I'll call Johnny, 35 years ago when he was 16 years old. He took the family car out one night and side swiped the passenger door on a post, damaging it severely. He then headed home drunk and quite depressed about the situation because he knew his father believed in tough love. The next morning his mother takes the car to the grocery store and upon return she notices the damage and bolts up to Johnny's room just as he is waking up with a severe headache. His mom busts into his room and says "Johnny" you're not going to believe it, but someone hit me while I was in the grocery store this morning, your father is going to kill me. Johnny says don't worry Mom, it wasn't your fault, he will understand! This is a true story. He told her the true sequence of events about 5-years ago, some 30-years after the fact!

[ApS]

"...OK - the forum will get excited for a few days because this almost never happens in boats. Its unusual when a drunk crashes a boat and its different to see pictures of a boat driven 15 feet onto an island rather than a car tumbled over a road enbankment..."
Chances are excellent that a driver whose car "tumbled into an embankment" will at least be recorded statistically as an accident. Just a few days earlier when the lake level was at its extreme height, this boat could have "gotten air" all the way to a resident's bedroom!

I wouldn't be so dismissive of this event. Will a boat that drove up to somebody's house be statistically recorded as something other than "Collision with Fixed Object", or "No Proper Lookout"?

"...Without the booze this is just an accident. Insurance company fixes the boat. all is forgiven. As another accident showed, it's hard to prove BUI after the fact..."
Seen the headlines?

We now have "The Ambien®-Defense", and it's been used by a Congressman in Washington: The words "appears intoxicated" appear on the police report—two other charges were pled down and dismissed!

Volunteered testimony regarding one's own prescribed medicine could spell the end of BWI c-o-n-v-i-c-t-i-o-n-s. I fear that it's not a new Defense tactic: Insurance will pay-up—or else.

IMHO, better that more charges are added:

Without the BWI, and sober or not, it can be calculated at what velocity Eagle Island was "tagged". Given those Ambien® headlines, any and all additional charges could—and ultimately should—be added.

This is still another Coast Guard statistic...waiting to be missed...from Lake Winnipesaukee.

IMHO.

[Woodsy]

APS...

Of course this will be recorded statistically as an accident! It will not be "missed" or "overlooked". BWI will most likely be listed as the primary cause of the accident as the MP obviously had enough evidence to charge the operator with BWI. There are a bunch of secondary causes that could be listed. I am sure the accident report will make for some good reading.

Woodsy

[jrc]

....Seen the headlines?

We now have "The Ambien®-Defense", and it's been used by a Congressman in Washington: The words "appears intoxicated" appear on the police report—two other charges were pled down and dismissed!

Volunteered testimony regarding one's own prescribed medicine could spell the end of BWI c-o-n-v-i-c-t-i-o-n-s. I fear that it's not a new Defense tactic: Insurance will pay-up—or else.

IMHO, better that more charges are added:

Without the BWI, and sober or not, it can be calculated at what velocity Eagle Island was "tagged". Given those Ambien® headlines, any and all additional charges could—and ultimately should—be added.



Kennedy plead guilty to DUI, that is a conviction. It was a plea bargain and they dropped the lesser offences. That's been happening for a hundred years. It may happen to our wayward boater as well.

http://www.wmur.com/news/9364602/detail.html

I doubt our forensics scientists will find enough data to accurately pin down the velocity. I'm sure they'll guess something like 20-40 mph. The boat went through a shallow rocky area, up the rocky embankment, skidded through the
shoreline bushes and finally bounced off a few small trees. It won't be like measuring skid marks at a car accident. Plus no one was hurt, how much time and money wil the state spend to gather evidence.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Chances are excellent that a driver whose car "tumbled into an embankment" will at least be recorded statistically as an accident. Just a few days earlier when the lake level was at its extreme height, this boat could have "gotten air" all the way to a resident's bedroom!

I wouldn't be so dismissive of this event. Will a boat that drove up to somebody's house be statistically recorded as something other than "Collision with Fixed Object", or "No Proper Lookout"?

While it may well get recorded as "Collision with Fixed Object" or "Grounding" in the USCG stats, I think it likely it's primary cause will be recorded as "BUI" (properly "Alcohol Use") rather than "No Proper Lookout".


Seen the headlines?

We now have "The Ambien®-Defense", and it's been used by a Congressman in Washington: The words "appears intoxicated" appear on the police report—two other charges were pled down and dismissed!

Volunteered testimony regarding one's own prescribed medicine could spell the end of BWI c-o-n-v-i-c-t-i-o-n-s. I fear that it's not a new Defense tactic: Insurance will pay-up—or else.

IMHO, better that more charges are added:

Without the BWI, and sober or not, it can be calculated at what velocity Eagle Island was "tagged". Given those Ambien® headlines, any and all additional charges could—and ultimately should—be added.

This is still another Coast Guard statistic...waiting to be missed...from Lake Winnipesaukee.

IMHO.

The Ambien defense has been claimed before along with the Ritalin defense and others. I'm not sure how they make out as a general rule. The question in Kennedy's case is whether he really was drinking or not, drunk or not (he claimed he wasn't). I don't think any sobriety tests were done (and there probably should have been) but that wasn't the case in this (boating) case was it. Claiming Ambien made him appear as if drunk isn't going to help if there's evidence to the contrary. Moreover Kennedy's case shows that driving under the influence of medications (vs alcohol) isn't going to get you off w/o consequences. That his consequences are light compared to what you or I might have gotten in similar circumstances is another question, not related in any way I can see, to this crash. Depending on the kid's history he may get some leniency or maybe he won't. Being a NH deputy county attorney specializing in prosecuting DUI cases didn't help Wayne Coull (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659&highlight=motorcycle+prosecutor). As for the insurance paying up, well they didn't in a somewhat (in)famous case I think you've heard of.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2004/12/21/48902.htm

As for estimating the boat's speed that night ... might be hard to do given all the variables involved. But if you think it'll help and if the owners are willing, I volunteer to test crash the boat over and over again to determine a range of potential speeds that night. :coolsm:

[ApS]

"Kennedy plead guilty to DUI, that is a conviction. It was a plea bargain and they dropped the lesser offences. That's been happening for a hundred years. It may happen to our wayward boater as well."

'Happening for 50 years, maybe.

Given his future in politics, and newsprint regarding DUI in general, I'd guess that he hastily (and tactically) announced such legal-weaselings on the same day that two huge news-stories occupied the day's headlines.

My gripe is that it can take 1000 days to reach such BWI determinations in serious cases: If found not-guilty by a jury of his peers, does the Coast Guard go back to "statistically-indemnify" each BWI boater after three years? Could New Hampshire's 2 BWIs be reduced to 1 BWI now?

I suspect that last year's statement by NHMP's Lt. Dunleavy about the high incidence of drunk-boating is onnnn-target. (Was it 50%?:eek: ) Only 5 to 10 percent of boating accidents are reported anyway—according to the Coast Guard.

"...I doubt our forensics scientists will find enough data to accurately pin down the velocity. I'm sure they'll guess something like 20-40 mph. The boat went through a shallow rocky area, up the rocky embankment, skidded through the
shoreline bushes and finally bounced off a few small trees. It won't be like measuring skid marks at a car accident. Plus no one was hurt, how much time and money wil the state spend to gather evidence.
None—though BWI is a very serious life-style choice.

But I wouldn't sell out our forensic capabilities quite yet: I see Mee'n'Mac has volunteered to repeatedly crash-test the same boat to narrow the variables and to determine—as humanly possible—the speed at which the boat would need to maintain to nearly reach the island's lone residence.

Through careful analyses, I believe Mee'n'Mac will reach a scientifically-reached determination of 28-MPH. :) :)

But I also expect there may be some disappointing variables leading up to his anticipated State-sponsored alcoholic "bash":

1) The teen tests .05 BAC :(
2) The teen says he handed the helm over to the juvenile boater as he felt unsure of his surroundings. (Given the juvenile boater is far less apt to receive punishment by the State, and neither passenger tested for BAC).
3) Two hands were on the helm at the time—but different people.
4) The teen "...was sober while piloting, but got drunk after he saw the damage to the boat".

They don't call it "The courtroom defense-team's theory" fer nothin'. :rolleye2:

[John A. Birdsall]

Wow....any body here how big of a boat this was....and 30' onto the island....Wow......and last but not least.....did they have insurence...I am not sure I even want to know what the cost is going to be to get the boat out of there..........

Seems to me that even if they did have insurance, since they were in violation of several laws the insurance would not cover it.:eek:

[upthesaukee]

Seems to me that even if they did have insurance, since they were in violation of several laws the insurance would not cover it.:eek:

There are specific exclusions to coverage in any insurance policy, including boat insurance. Breaking a law doesn't necessarily mean there is no coverage. If that was the case, our insurance rates would be extremely low, as a simple citation for speeding, driving too fast, even dwi, would mean the insurance company would not have to pay.

An even better exclusion that is not part of any insurance would be "aggravated ignorance" on the part of the owner / operator!:D

[ApS]

"...While it may well get recorded as "Collision with Fixed Object" or "Grounding" in the USCG stats, I think it likely it's primary cause will be recorded as "BUI" (properly "Alcohol Use") rather than "No Proper Lookout"..."
There's a Coast Guard category titled "Operator Error" as primary cause: That suggests that neither "BWI" nor "No Proper Lookout" would appear as primary cause.

"...I don't think any sobriety tests were done (and there probably should have been) but that wasn't the case in this (boating) case was it..." In the Eagle Island case, a sobriety test of all three boaters should be done. The courtroom defense "theory" could include a question of which boater was at the helm at the time of the wreck.

As a teen, and less accustomed to alcohol's effects, he may end up being found at less than the legal-limit anyway; alternatively, he could claim being sober prior to the wreck and drank to >.08 BAC afterwards.

A defense "theory" that sounds responsible would be, "Just when we hit, we were arguing which of us was the designated driver". :emb:

In the Congressman's case there should have been a "field-sobriety" test; however, as is the case with plea-deals, that too could disappear. As we have seen, oral testimony in a BWI criminal case can be readily dismissed.

"...That his consequences are light compared to what you or I might have gotten in similar circumstances is another question, not related in any way I can see, to this crash. Depending on the kid's history he may get some leniency or maybe he won't. Being a NH deputy county attorney specializing in prosecuting DUI cases didn't help Wayne Coull (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659&highlight=motorcycle+prosecutor)..."
Law enforcement personnel should be held to a higher standard -- under the law.

As to "leniency", the accused should hire Roy Black, Esq.—grandson of the US Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black: Roy recently got "leniency" for a media personality in a famous doctor-shopping case. Our system assures that consequences can be "lenient" under the right circumstances.

"...As for estimating the boat's speed that night ... might be hard to do given all the variables involved. But if you think it'll help and if the owners are willing, I volunteer to test crash the boat over and over again to determine a range of potential speeds that night. :coolsm:..."

Among the variables, we know these:
1) the boat's pathway from physical evidence,
2) the high approximate speed from the Mount's captain, a "lay-expert",
3) the lake level at the time, which was at a high-extreme.

I'd volunteer too, and would insist that all the variables need to be met; however, I doubt the State will foot the bill for my beverages! :laugh:

BTW: Being at such a high level could have saved these boaters' very lives! Had this occurred late in the season, they could have hit the granite-rock wall that Winnipesaukee's shorefront becomes at that time.

[Gavia immer]

I don't know about that "15 feet from shore" story. The photo shows that the boat was halted by medium sized trees within 15 feet of a very steep, but not obviously involved, shoreline. The boat appears to have traveled sideways to arrive where it did and that the real damage is off to the right in the news photo. A photo taken of the area today would be nice.