speed limits on the Lake

[RUGMAN]

I recently read in the paper that there was a proposal to eliminate speed limits on the lake. My question is , do higher speeds reduce the size of the wake that a boat creates, I have always noticed as boats pass by my house at slower speeds they seem to create a larger wake, particularly larger boats, I have always been amazed when I see so many boats with 2-4 outboards 500 to 800 hp, what's the point when the speed limit is 45 ?

[steve-on-mark]

The slower a boat travels, the more of the vee is in the water...it essentially becomes a lake plow, and yes, the waves are much larger!

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[Descant]

Yes, there is a bill filed in the legislature to eliminate the 45 mph speed limit. Some really fast boats e.g. Bass Boats make almost no wake at all at speed. Some slower boats e.g. wake or ballast boats make huge wakes at slower speeds.
I know of boats with lots of horsepower that go to FL in the winter and use their speed there for a quick run to the Bahamas, but on the lake, yes, the horsepower is unused. At leas, the outboards are a lot quieter than the big inboards with Captain's Call switches on the above water exhausts. I don't care how fast they go if they're quiet like Bass Boats.

[WinnisquamZ]

What are the odds of this bill passing? Why now is it being introduced?


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[fatlazyless]

Oh HAPPY day ...... that 45-mph speed limit is going away!

Can hardly wait ...... gonna get me a 27' twin hull Skater-Cat with two 300-hp Merc two-stroke racing engines ...... and away I will go ..... getting up to 107-mph ..... buzzing down the broads.

My 27'- Skater Cat will have a gas pedal as opposed to a hand throttle ..... and make a big two-stroke buzzing sound as it buzzes along at 100-mph+ ........ wwweeeeoooooooo!!! .... :D:banana::D:banana: ...... high speed boating is HAPPY boating!

..........................

To achieve a NH boat operator's license, you should have to swim 200-yards across the surface of Lake Winnipesaukee and tread water for ten minutes, which is the swim test for Scuba certification. On top of the Lake Winnipesaukee water driving a boat, or under the water with Scuba, the water out there is the same water, so's it should have the same swim test! ... :eek2: ... hut-hut-hut!

[Descant]

Leave the speed limit alone and get rid of the boat to boat safe passage rule. That works in 49 other states and is rarely enforced/enforceable in NH. LOL

[The Real BigGuy]

Just leave things the way they are! Those that want to exceed 45 do anyway. Those that don’t think there should be a safe boat to boat passing distance don’t pay attention to the rule now.


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[John Mercier]

What are the odds of this bill passing? Why now is it being introduced?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Odds? Hard to say. The reason for the introduction... Mike Bordes first term in the Legislature.

[WinnisquamZ]

Odds? Hard to say. The reason for the introduction... Mike Bordes first term in the Legislature.

So, it has little chance


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[fatlazyless]

This proposed speed limits revocation has a very strong smell of the NH Marine Trades Assoc at work, here. Contributing two hundred dollars/year to Republican state reps as a political contribution to pay for re-election signs, who get paid just fifty dollars/year for being a state rep, the NH Marine Trades Assoc. has a lot of clout with many of the state reps(R).

Where does the NH Marine Trades Assoc get its funding? It is donated from NH boat sellers/marinas and national boat makers/sellers.

Sniff - sniff - sniff ...... I smell $200 political contributions ..... coming from the NH Marine Trades Assoc. ..... a political action committee .... donating it to each and every Republican state rep in New Hampshire ...... which has 213-Republcans and 187-Democrats ..... at this time in the NH House of Reps ....

$200-political donation x 213 Republican state reps is $42,600.

[NH.Solar]

The problem has never been the speed of the boats, but rather the "slowness" in the thinking of so many of the drivers.
That being said removing the speed limit on such an overcrowded body of water is a recipe for disaster. The issue again isn't the speed of the go-fasts, it is the difference between those boats and most other boats on the lake ...and the actual number assigned to the speed isn't the issue, it is the mindless thinking of so many boaters. My last boat could make it from the docks in Wolfeboro to the dock in Center Harbor in 21 minutes (FLL, were you on that late Sept ride? We did touch 107 ...and there was no wake), but one of my scariest moments came while driving the largest barges on the lake through the narrow channel by Pick's Point and having two jetskiers decide that they needed to stop and have a conversation directly in front of the barge. 60" of steel barge and a twenty foot pushboat don't stop or turn without at least minute of pre-planning, even at barely six miles an hour.
As a lover of high speed boats I never thought I would hear myself say this, but the speed limit needs to stay in place ...during the weekends and holidays

[sunset on the dock]

It seems rather curious. Rep. Bordes heard from "literally hundreds of people" bringing up the topic yet Rep. Littlefield, from the same district AND same ward, heard from none. Something is a little fishy here. Of course Rep. Bordes owns a boat that will go 58 MPH (but of course he only cruises at 35 MPH).

[John Mercier]

This proposed speed limits revocation has a very strong smell of the NH Marine Trades Assoc at work, here. Contributing two hundred dollars/year to Republican state reps as a political contribution to pay for re-election signs, who get paid just fifty dollars/year for being a state rep, the NH Marine Trades Assoc. has a lot of clout with many of the state reps(R).

Where does the NH Marine Trades Assoc get its funding? It is donated from NH boat sellers/marinas and national boat makers/sellers.

Sniff - sniff - sniff ...... I smell $200 political contributions ..... coming from the NH Marine Trades Assoc. ..... a political action committee .... donating it to each and every Republican state rep in New Hampshire ...... which has 213-Republcans and 187-Democrats ..... at this time in the NH House of Reps ....

$200-political donation x 213 Republican state reps is $42,600.Legislators get paid $100 per year. Bordes has been on this rant since arriving from NY... long before he ever held state office.

[8gv]

While nobody has asked me...

I believe that the current day time speed limit is appropriate.

If one is to hit something, the faster the vessel is going the worse the outcome will be.

For those that have boats capable of speed in excess of 45 mph hopefully the speed limit might curtail running at 55 or 60.

For me the noise level at W.O.T. or close to it is a deterrent to me going fast.

A higher speed limit or worse yet, no speed limit would increase the lake's noise level.

I believe that the night speed limit is 35 mph.

That is too fast in my opinion.

[Descant]

My original post, #3 was facetious, hence the LOL. I hope this new thread on speed limits will not duplicate the mess of the original issue.

[John Mercier]

I don't think the discussion would go very far.
The current crop of legislators (not sure if they are much different than the past) seem to form an opinion, then seek out the voices that support that opinion.

[sunset on the dock]

Rep. Bordes, originally from NY, states in the LDS article that there are no speed limits in NY waters. What?! As one example Lake George has a 45/25 MPH speed limit and a safe passage law. Rep. Bordes might be either poorly prepared/informed or he is being deceitful.

[fatlazyless]

Legislators get paid $100 per year. Bordes has been on this rant since arriving from NY... long before he ever held state office.

...... is my understanding that NH state reps get one hundred dollars per their two-year term, or $50/yr plus a per diem mileage reimbursement for driving their car to the NH State House and returning home.

[upthesaukee]

Rep. Bordes, originally from NY, states in the LDS article that there are no speed limits in NY waters. What?! As one example Lake George has a 45/25 MPH speed limit and a safe passage law. Rep. Bordes might be either poorly prepared/informed or he is being deceitful.

I think yes/yes and finally yes. :D

Dave

[John Mercier]

...... is my understanding that NH state reps get one hundred dollars per their two-year term, or $50/yr plus a per diem mileage reimbursement for driving their car to the NH State House and returning home.
$200 per term and mileage.
$100 per year.

[Descant]

Rep. Bordes, originally from NY, states in the LDS article that there are no speed limits in NY waters. What?! As one example Lake George has a 45/25 MPH speed limit and a safe passage law. Rep. Bordes might be either poorly prepared/informed or he is being deceitful.

Reps (and Senators) can get such info researched by Legislative Services. New reps are less likely to do this in advance, but after they have filed their request for a bill to be drafted. The bill filing period is very short, so a lot gets done later in the process. New reps are also less likely to go to the relevant committee chair to find out what has passed or failed over the years. I don't know anything about Rep. Bordes, just what I've learned about the process.

For me, NH stands alone on many issues. Doesn't matter what they do in the nanny states like NY.

If Lake George is wholly contained within a National Park (is it?), then the speed limit there may not be a NY law and Rep. Bordes could be technically correct.

[John Mercier]

Rep. Bordes, originally from NY, states in the LDS article that there are no speed limits in NY waters. What?! As one example Lake George has a 45/25 MPH speed limit and a safe passage law. Rep. Bordes might be either poorly prepared/informed or he is being deceitful.
There is a type of social battle going on between the various views of what is appropriate for the area.
The lake just seems to be a focal point.

Quiet solitude is steadily being replaced with the newer view.

[sunset on the dock]

Reps (and Senators) can get such info researched by Legislative Services. New reps are less likely to do this in advance, but after they have filed their request for a bill to be drafted. The bill filing period is very short, so a lot gets done later in the process. New reps are also less likely to go to the relevant committee chair to find out what has passed or failed over the years. I don't know anything about Rep. Bordes, just what I've learned about the process.

For me, NH stands alone on many issues. Doesn't matter what they do in the nanny states like NY.

If Lake George is wholly contained within a National Park (is it?), then the speed limit there may not be a NY law and Rep. Bordes could be technically correct.


Many NY Lakes have a speed limit including some Finger Lakes. Maybe I'm wrong but I cannot find that Lake George is in a national park.

[TheTimeTraveler]

I believe it is best to leave the speed limit in place. Why? Noise pollution.

Those high powered speeding boats literally destroy the peace and tranquility that most of us currently enjoy without them.

There also other issues such as safety and excess (and wasted) fuel consumption.

[TiltonBB]

Speed has never been a safety problem on the lake. Most jet skis, and many power boats on the lake today, can and do regularly exceed the speed limit without incident.

It was a "feel good" law to begin with to pacify a certain crowd. The major accidents that have occurred on the lake in the past 25 to 30 years had nothing to do with speed. When those accidents occurred, the operators were within the current speed limits, even though the speed laws were not yet in place.

Even the go fast boats with the loud exhaust pass through an area, leaving a minimal wake, and are gone in a matter of minutes. And, the state has requirements to limit the maximum decibel output of a boat. I know people who had to remove their boat from the lake years ago because they were unable to muffle the exhaust sufficiently.

Noise and wakes from the wake board boats are a much bigger problem. The shoreline and dock damage are an issue but the loud stereos, designed, not for the occupants of the boat, but to blast music across the water, are a much more disruptive nuisance. And that is a problem when they set up in one area, blast music (sometimes complete with F Bombs) and seem oblivious to the sound travelling for miles. In one wake boarding excursion they can easily disrupt the peace of the occupants of 50 to 100 homes.

In my opinion that is a much greater problem than speed ever was or will be.

[tis]

Speed has never been a safety problem on the lake. Most jet skis, and many power boats on the lake today, can and do regularly exceed the speed limit without incident.

It was a "feel good" law to begin with to pacify a certain crowd. The major accidents that have occurred on the lake in the past 25 to 30 years had nothing to do with speed. When those accidents occurred, the operators were within the current speed limits, even though the speed laws were not yet in place.

Even the go fast boats with the loud exhaust pass through an area, leaving a minimal wake, and are gone in a matter of minutes. And, the state has requirements to limit the maximum decibel output of a boat. I know people who had to remove their boat from the lake years ago because they were unable to muffle the exhaust sufficiently.

Noise and wakes from the wake board boats are a much bigger problem. The shoreline and dock damage are an issue but the loud stereos, designed, not for the occupants of the boat, but to blast music across the water, are a much more disruptive nuisance. And that is a problem when they set up in one area, blast music (sometimes complete with F Bombs) and seem oblivious to the sound travelling for miles. In one wake boarding excursion they can easily disrupt the peace of the occupants of 50 to 100 homes.

I my opinion that is a much greater problem than speed ever was or will be.

I totally agree with you.

[Descant]

Actually, the speed limit issue is posting a number of the same issues that were posted before when it first came up a decade ago. The Big Big Big benefit is it brings the Forum back to lake and lakes region and gives us something instead of Covid issues to talk about. I try not to read anybody's Covid posts but sometimes they creep into "new posts".

[lakewinnie]

I have said this before. In 30 years of boating on the lake, I have never been put in danger by boats going >45 mph. In the last 10 years, I have gotten bow-swamped, shaken and stirred a number of times by wakes from wakeboard boats.

And if I had to take one over the other, I would rather hear loud engine noise than loud rap music.

[FlyingScot]

Speed has never been a safety problem on the lake. Most jet skis, and many power boats on the lake today, can and do regularly exceed the speed limit without incident.

It was a "feel good" law to begin with to pacify a certain crowd. The major accidents that have occurred on the lake in the past 25 to 30 years had nothing to do with speed. When those accidents occurred, the operators were within the current speed limits, even though the speed laws were not yet in place.

Even the go fast boats with the loud exhaust pass through an area, leaving a minimal wake, and are gone in a matter of minutes. And, the state has requirements to limit the maximum decibel output of a boat. I know people who had to remove their boat from the lake years ago because they were unable to muffle the exhaust sufficiently.

Noise and wakes from the wake board boats are a much bigger problem. The shoreline and dock damage are an issue but the loud stereos, designed, not for the occupants of the boat, but to blast music across the water, are a much more disruptive nuisance. And that is a problem when they set up in one area, blast music (sometimes complete with F Bombs) and seem oblivious to the sound travelling for miles. In one wake boarding excursion they can easily disrupt the peace of the occupants of 50 to 100 homes.

In my opinion that is a much greater problem than speed ever was or will be.

Agreed. But this is not an either/or question. We should keep the speed limit, for all the reasons mentioned by others...and rein in the wake boards

[BroadHopper]

Instead of reinventing the wheel like most legislative bodies tend to do and avoid history, why not adopt the tried and true rule #6?

I actually feel safer on the intercoastal and where coastal jurisdiction. You don't need speed limits, no-wake, and tons of other laws that are at times difficult to enforce, and I have seen them not able to stand up in courts.

Talk to any LEO, Rule #6 will be easier to enforce and maintain.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/83.06#:~:text=%C2%A7%2083.06%20Safe%20speed%20%28R ule%206%29.%20Every%20vessel,factors%20shall%20be% 20among%20those%20taken%20into%20account%3A

[Dick]

Did you know that almost identical wording of USCG rule 6 is in our NH statutes: RSA 270-D:2,X(a)

[BroadHopper]

Did you know that almost identical wording of USCG rule 6 is in our NH statutes: RSA 270-D:2,X(a)

And they are still trying to reinvent the wheel. Jeez!

[MalibuResponse]

I fully support removing the speed limit that is in place on the lake on the broads. The lake is to be enjoyed by all, even the folks that would like to go a bit faster than others. Just imagine how you would all feel if the state decided to regulate your kayaks and SUP's? If that were the case I would recomend that any floating vessel is subject to paying the NH registration fees and also that canoes/kayaks/SUP's are not to be further than 250' from shore. Ready, Go!

[MalibuResponse]

It seems rather curious. Rep. Bordes heard from "literally hundreds of people" bringing up the topic yet Rep. Littlefield, from the same district AND same ward, heard from none. Something is a little fishy here. Of course Rep. Bordes owns a boat that will go 58 MPH (but of course he only cruises at 35 MPH).

How do you know how fast Rep. Boardes boat can travel?

[John Mercier]

Mike has mentioned it in several interviews.

Also, the non-motorized users are considered traditional, and would have greater standing in common property law.

In fact, the only State property that I know of where motorized recreational users are primary is Jericho... and that is due to how/whom purchased it.

The rail corridors would have trains as primary... but that is not automatically recreational in nature.