open carry - Market Basket, Plymouth NH

[fatlazyless]

Ok, so I really like the new Market Basket supermarket in Plymouth NH and typically go shopping there about two or three times per week. It has no self-service check-outs and has a good number of check-out registers staffed by Market Basket cashiers who are fast and friendly to get you checked out.

Lately, I have noticed there can be other shoppers inside the store, shopping with a grocery cart or a hand cart who also have an open carry, black semi-auto hand gun in plain site for everyone to see. I know you never see this at the nearby Walmart and I was surprised the first time I saw this and have now seen three different men doing their Market Basket shopping with a large gun holstered on their belt.

One time the man, about age-55, and wearing dark green army pants, dark green army sweatshirt with some unknown insignia on the front, and a black semi tucked into his belt was just five feet away from the Market Basket cashier, who saw him with the gun and seemed like she saw it and was somewhat concerned as she registered out my food items at the check-out.

There's got to be gun owners who keep their guns concealed away somewhere and do not go shopping at Market Basket while showing everyone they have a gun. Like, there is a big difference between concealed carry, and open carry in a NH Market Basket with numerous customers throughout the store.

One open carry guy was wearing a bright yellow tee-shirt and had a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed like a cowboy actor from the movie Showboat, with theatrical style clothing, a white cowboy hat, and a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed in quasi-military dark green pants and sweatshirt with a black sem-auto stuck under his belt with the handle showing.

So, why do these people, always men, choose to go to Market Basket-Plymouth and walk around the store aisles with a hand gun showing? Is it to show the other people inside the store that they have a gun? Is it because it is legal to do, they they apparently like to do it?

I know that other shoppers tend to leave the immediate area, and create space, distance, between themselves and the open carry person. It clears out a shopping aisle pretty quick, other shoppers make a fast exit when they become aware, and people just stay away from the open carry person.

In Plymouth NH, open handgun carry is not allowed at the Post Office, the Court House, Speare Hospital, Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, Rite Aid, and Walmart.

It is allowed at Market Basket, Plymouth NH which seems like a totally wackadoozie impossible situation for this Market Basket when they consider how their other shoppers inside the store tend to quickly create distance between themselves and the open carry person. Thanks, but no-thanks, I am staying away and keeping my distance from this guy, inside the store, you know what I mean!

[VitaBene]

I don't understand it and never will. the open carry person
will be the first targetOk, so I really like the new Market Basket supermarket in Plymouth NH and typically go shopping there about two or three times per week. It has no self-service check-outs and has a good number of check-out registers staffed by Market Basket cashiers who are fast and friendly to get you checked out.

Lately, I have noticed there can be other shoppers inside the store, shopping with a grocery cart or a hand cart who also have an open carry, black semi-auto hand gun in plain site for everyone to see. I know you never see this at the nearby Walmart and I was surprised the first time I saw this and have now seen three different men doing their Market Basket shopping with a large gun holstered on their belt.

One time the man, about age-55, and wearing dark green army pants, dark green army sweatshirt with some unknown insignia on the front, and a black semi tucked into his belt was just five feet away from the Market Basket cashier, who saw him with the gun and seemed like she saw it and was somewhat concerned as she registered out my food items at the check-out.

There's got to be gun owners who keep their guns concealed away somewhere and do not go shopping at Market Basket while showing everyone they have a gun. Like, there is a big difference between concealed carry, and open carry in a NH Market Basket with numerous customers throughout the store.

One open carry guy was wearing a bright yellow tee-shirt and had a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed like a cowboy actor from the movie Showboat, with theatrical style clothing, a white cowboy hat, and a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed in quasi-military dark green pants and sweatshirt with a black sem-auto stuck under his belt with the handle showing.

So, why do these people, always men, choose to go to Market Basket-Plymouth and walk around the store aisles with a hand gun showing? Is it to show the other people inside the store that they have a gun? Is it because it is legal to do, they they apparently like to do it?

I know that other shoppers tend to leave the immediate area, and create space, distance, between themselves and the open carry person. It clears out a shopping aisle pretty quick, other shoppers make a fast exit when they become aware, and people just stay away from the open carry person.

In Plymouth NH, open handgun carry is not allowed at the Post Office, the Court House, Speare Hospital, Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, Rite Aid, and Walmart.

It is allowed at Market Basket, Plymouth NH which seems like a totally wackadoozie impossible situation for this Market Basket when they consider how their other shoppers inside the store tend to quickly create distance between themselves and the open carry person. Thanks, but no-thanks, I am staying away and keeping my distance from this guy, inside the store, you know what I mean!

[MAXUM]

I don't understand it and never will. the open carry person
will be the first target

It never crossed your mind that having a person open carrying is a deterrent to a common criminal?

I'd personally never do it as it draws unwanted attention but I don't have a problem with those that do. I see no difference in whether or not it is concealed. An armed person is an armed person.

[WinnisquamZ]

Your statement “will be the first target” makes it clear to those of us that do carry you don’t understand. However, we will protect you if the need ever arises. You must remind yourself you live in one of the safest states in the country because of what you dislike and are uncomfortable with.


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[FlyingScot]

As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?

[MeredithMan]

I saw that in Gilford Walmart a couple years ago. We got to the check-out line and there was a husband/wife in front of us...maybe 50-ish...and they both had pistols in holsters at their waist. Although I don't own a gun, I am not anti-gun, and have shot pistols and rifles numerous times, but it did freak me out a bit to see that out in the open on a Sunday morning in Walmart

[thinkxingu]

Your statement “will be the first target” makes it clear to those of us that do carry you don’t understand. However, we will protect you if the need ever arises. You must remind yourself you live in one of the safest states in the country because of what you dislike and are uncomfortable with.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I think what you're saying is that NH's less/unrestricted gun laws have led to lower crime rates. Most research shows that's not true.

Education, however, along with a good economy and access to medical and mental health are all directly connected.

Here's what many feel is the best research on RTC laws and their outcomes: https://www.nber.org/papers/w23510

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[DEJ]

As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?

This thread will not end well.

[Biggd]

Ok, so I really like the new Market Basket supermarket in Plymouth NH and typically go shopping there about two or three times per week. It has no self-service check-outs and has a good number of check-out registers staffed by Market Basket cashiers who are fast and friendly to get you checked out.

Lately, I have noticed there can be other shoppers inside the store, shopping with a grocery cart or a hand cart who also have an open carry, black semi-auto hand gun in plain site for everyone to see. I know you never see this at the nearby Walmart and I was surprised the first time I saw this and have now seen three different men doing their Market Basket shopping with a large gun holstered on their belt.

One time the man, about age-55, and wearing dark green army pants, dark green army sweatshirt with some unknown insignia on the front, and a black semi tucked into his belt was just five feet away from the Market Basket cashier, who saw him with the gun and seemed like she saw it and was somewhat concerned as she registered out my food items at the check-out.

There's got to be gun owners who keep their guns concealed away somewhere and do not go shopping at Market Basket while showing everyone they have a gun. Like, there is a big difference between concealed carry, and open carry in a NH Market Basket with numerous customers throughout the store.

One open carry guy was wearing a bright yellow tee-shirt and had a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed like a cowboy actor from the movie Showboat, with theatrical style clothing, a white cowboy hat, and a black semi-auto in a holster.

Another open carry guy was dressed in quasi-military dark green pants and sweatshirt with a black sem-auto stuck under his belt with the handle showing.

So, why do these people, always men, choose to go to Market Basket-Plymouth and walk around the store aisles with a hand gun showing? Is it to show the other people inside the store that they have a gun? Is it because it is legal to do, they they apparently like to do it?

I know that other shoppers tend to leave the immediate area, and create space, distance, between themselves and the open carry person. It clears out a shopping aisle pretty quick, other shoppers make a fast exit when they become aware, and people just stay away from the open carry person.

In Plymouth NH, open handgun carry is not allowed at the Post Office, the Court House, Speare Hospital, Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, Rite Aid, and Walmart.

It is allowed at Market Basket, Plymouth NH which seems like a totally wackadoozie impossible situation for this Market Basket when they consider how their other shoppers inside the store tend to quickly create distance between themselves and the open carry person. Thanks, but no-thanks, I am staying away and keeping my distance from this guy, inside the store, you know what I mean!You never know when you're going to have to shoot the guy taking the last bag of toilet paper.:eek:

[Descant]

This is a great country and NH is a great state. No chance of a hold up or mugging when these guys are around.

[winniwannabe]

I absolutely agree w/ the 1st part of ur statement. NH is a great state and this is a great country. The 2nd part I have to disagree w/u. While I have no
issues w/ gun licenses and RTC, my problem is that sometimes showing a gun brings on issues of its own. I don't feel more safe and secure because some
body has a weapon showing. In this day and age it's not a guarantee that
the armed person is one of the good guys. It's a known fact that some people "snap" if they see someone wearing a mask,washing their hands,etc.
I agree w/ a previous post that maybe they're making up for something else,
but they still can antagonize people. How are they ensuring my safety by
openly carrying a gun? Are they going to shoot someone if there is a scrap?
I respectfully submit this .

[WinnisquamZ]

Must remember until just a few years back open carry was the only way here in NH. To conceal ones firearm required a permit. Old habits are difficult to brake. Ones comment on “compensating for something”. I ask you to grow up.


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[VitaBene]

No, I understand very well. I carry concealed. From where i am sitting in my barn, I can reach a loaded M&P 40. I am comfortable with people carrying around me. In the case of one open carrying in a store, they would be identified as a potential threat to the bad guy and would be the first one eliminated.

You do whatever you please, but I will continue to carry concealed and keep my capabilities less known.

Your statement “will be the first target” makes it clear to those of us that do carry you don’t understand. However, we will protect you if the need ever arises. You must remind yourself you live in one of the safest states in the country because of what you dislike and are uncomfortable with.


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[VitaBene]

It never crossed your mind that having a person open carrying is a deterrent to a common criminal?

I'd personally never do it as it draws unwanted attention but I don't have a problem with those that do. I see no difference in whether or not it is concealed. An armed person is an armed person.

An openly armed person is easily identified as such and to defeat. That deterrent is real in some cases, certainly but I believe the real deterrent in NH is the bad guys knowing that many of us do carry concealed.

[Pam]

I'm sorry, this is nuts. Oh yes, I feel so safe doing my grocery shopping while a bunch of macho men walk around with their guns exposed. This country is psycho when it comes to guns.. Just saying.... not that it does any good.

[thinkxingu]

Can anyone speak to shooter accuracy? I remember when politicians began suggesting that teachers should be packing my first thought was how scared I'd be of my colleagues' accuracy! Also, I recall studies showing 30% effectiveness in "tumultuous" circumstances.

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[LikeLakes]

An openly armed person is easily identified as such and to defeat. That deterrent is real in some cases, certainly but I believe the real deterrent in NH is the bad guys knowing that many of us do carry concealed.

I think the real deterrent is we are a small state, with a tolerant population that for the most part lives and let's live without pushing our views on our neighbors. As a result people are not all that angry when shopping at Market Basket, and hence we don't need protection from open or concealed carry fellow citizens.

BTW I'm not at all anti-gun, but like others here I'll never understand someone that feels like they need to be openly packing when picking up peanut butter and wonder bread at the grocery store.

[LikeLakes]

This thread will not end well.

You never know, sometimes a good conversation can stay civil. I don't think this thread will end SOON, but I do hold out hope that it ends WELL.

[swnoel]

You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...

[LikeLakes]

I do. Just because I wonder why people want to open carry at grocery stores doesn't mean I don't support the right to, within the law, bear arms.

I wonder why people like powdered donuts. But I support their right to have 3 or 4 with their coffee with 8 creams and 12 sugars.

[codeman671]

Can anyone speak to shooter accuracy? I remember when politicians began suggesting that teachers should be packing my first thought was how scared I'd be of my colleagues' accuracy! Also, I recall studies showing 30% effectiveness in "tumultuous" circumstances.

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Training and practice is key. Just handing someone a gun and expecting them to be proficient, especially under duress, is a recipe for disaster. Proper training and understanding the laws is of the utmost importance.

I recently took a class at White Birch Armory called "The rules for armed defense". It highlights NH gun laws, concealed/open carry, situational awareness and the what if's to consider. Great course, the instructor is a friend and highly qualified instructor, police officer, SWAT team leader and retired military special agent. It is a non-shooting class, informational seminar only. I would highly recommend it.

One point it hinged on was even though something may be legal (open carry for instance), but is it wise to do so? Should you?

[Garcia]

You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...

The Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today.

Many support the Second Amendment but do not interpret it to mean individuals have a constitutional right to carry anything, anywhere.

Do I want to see guns in the grocery store, on boaters out enjoying the day, or on people sitting next to me when I am out for ice cream with my kids? No. Do I live in fear of being shot by a crazed lunatic or a good samaritan trying to stop one? No. If I have to make a choice, I would rather see the guns people are carrying than have people with concealed weapons.

[SAB1]

I’ll second everything Vita has said. Open carry…no. Your inviting trouble and yes if BG is there your first to go. I see guys open carrying I turn and go the other way.

[Descant]

I grew up shooing at summer camp, (YMCA and BSA). My cousins in the Adirondacks all had their own guns as teens. Schools had Jr ROTC, etc. More experience in the military. I am not afraid of guns, but I have a great respect. Las a guest a couple of"Legislative Shooting Days" and participated in a variety of chances to trey everything from Cowboy shoot out contest (no, the targets don't shoot back) to an antique elephant gun and fully automatic machine guns.
Great family recreation.

[tis]

An openly armed person is easily identified as such and to defeat. That deterrent is real in some cases, certainly but I believe the real deterrent in NH is the bad guys knowing that many of us do carry concealed.


Tucked in your bathing suit? :laugh::laugh: Sorry, couldn't resist.....

[ITD]

Yeah you know, guns, knives, utility knives, leathermen tools, ac repair guys with tool belts on, those grocery workers flashing those box cutters. Man oh man, it's a dangerous place the Market Basket......:rolleye2:


People carrying guns do not concern me, mass shooters never target places where there are people who can shoot back.

[VitaBene]

Tucked in your bathing suit? :laugh::laugh: Sorry, couldn't resist.....
Ha- its the little one! See you this summer, I hope D!!

[VitaBene]

I grew up shooing at summer camp, (YMCA and BSA). My cousins in the Adirondacks all had their own guns as teens. Schools had Jr ROTC, etc. More experience in the military. I am not afraid of guns, but I have a great respect. Las a guest a couple of"Legislative Shooting Days" and participated in a variety of chances to trey everything from Cowboy shoot out contest (no, the targets don't shoot back) to an antique elephant gun and fully automatic machine guns.
Great family recreation.

Me too- Camp Squanto! First thing I learned was safety. My high school had a team (yes we could bring firearms to school in 1978 under certain conditions). My buddy does horse mouneted shooting competitions, so cool!

Love shooting, but ammo$$ yikes.

[fatlazyless]

Can you carry a gun on a military base? ....... no!

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you-carry-gun-military-base.html

Can you carry a gun while shopping at the Market Basket in Plymouth, NH? ....... yes!

So, both the military base and the Market Basket are responsible members of the local community, yet they have a very different rule for carrying a gun.

Military Base in the U.S.A says NO to guns.

Market Basket in New Hampshire says YES to guns.

You notice how both military base and Market Basket have the same initials of "M B" so why the different policy for hand guns?

[LikeLakes]

You do realize Market Basket isn't making the rules here? The state and local governments makes the rules.

[map]

I never would give that any thought in the Live Free or Die state. In fact, it would make me feel more secure.

That said, I think concealed carry is a better way to go. But it’s a personal choice.

[P-3 Guy]

You do realize Market Basket isn't making the rules here? The state and local governments makes the rules.

Market Basket isn't making the rules here in the sense that, at least at their Plymouth store, they are choosing not to prohibit open carry. But they legally could.

[BrunoSR]

Can you carry a gun on a military base? ....... no!

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you-carry-gun-military-base.html

Can you carry a gun while shopping at the Market Basket in Plymouth, NH? ....... yes!

So, both the military base and the Market Basket are responsible members of the local community, yet they have a very different rule for carrying a gun.

Military Base in the U.S.A says NO to guns.

Market Basket in New Hampshire says YES to guns.

You notice how both military base and Market Basket have the same initials of "M B" so why the different policy for hand guns?

Can you as a civilian, walk onto a military base?..... No, not with out good reason.

Can you as a civilian walk into a Market Basket?.....Yes even if you are an evil person.

There is a difference, though there have been shootings on military bases. I for one, think military people should be able to wear firearms on base, but that's just me.

Here in NH as other places, you have no idea the number of people you come into contact with every day that are carrying concealed. Why, because there are crazies out there and they can be found anywhere. And don't forget, cops are only mins away when seconds count. Sorry, I had to use that line, but is true.

I carry and I carry concealed. Why, there are many reasons but here are two. The first is because of people that freak out when they see a gun. The second, I don't want to stand out should something ever happen, which I hope never does. So far I am doing quite well, 45 years of carrying without any issues.

As for accuracy, I find that you'd probably have better chance of good accuracy from most civilians than from a Police officer. There are some really good shooters among Police officers as I shoot with quite a few. However, that is not the norm for most Police officers. They qualify once or twice a year and that's their only shooting they do in a years time. Shooting is a skill that requires continual work. You just don't learn to shoot at 15 and you're good to go for life.

I will admit, when I see someone walking around open carrying, I take a second look,. Usually to see what they are carrying. I am a SIG snob! But I also keep that in the back of my mind. Though I suspect if a bad person saw two, three of four good persons walking around open carrying, they would probably decide to take their evil somewhere else.

[LikeLakes]

Market Basket isn't making the rules here in the sense that, at least at their Plymouth store, they are choosing not to prohibit open carry. But they legally could.

This came up at a place I volunteer at, that has the public in multiple times a week. Though you can have a policy to prohibit open carry, lawyers are recommending against that. The reason as explained to us was that by actively prohibiting you open yourself up to liability in a few different areas.

[BrownstoneNorth]

Sorry, I flunked attachments. Tried unsuccessfully to post a photo I took a couple of years ago on the ship: Two signs next to each other with red lines through a cigarette and a gun to signify No Smoking and No Guns allowed aboard.

[John Mercier]

Liability isn't a concern... if it were, the insurance company would let us know.

It is balancing out the various factors to profitability.

Do I gain more customer/sales than I lose?
Does it cost me more to find employees willing to work in that environment?

These are the things we look at for restrictions and bans that are not government mandates.

[fatlazyless]

As a member of the U.S. Military stationed at a military base within the 50 U.S. states, a sailor, soldier, Marine, or Air Force cannot keep a gun concealed or open carry on the military base. Only the military police can have a gun.

Compare that to Market Basket, Plymouth NH where anyone can go food shopping and have a gun, open carry.

Seriously?

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you-carry-gun-military-base.html

So, what am I missing here with this comparison to how the military treats personal use of a gun verses how the State of New Hampshire treats personal use of a gun. The military has much much more strict rules on personal weapons.

If an enlisted sailor walked around inside the Navy PX shopping store located inside the Portsmouth Navy Ship Yard and wore a handgun in a holster, he would most likely get stopped very fast by the Navy military police that patrol the military base. If the same sailor walked around the Market Basket wearing the same holstered gun, it is okay?

[sky's]

I've been lets say participating in the Santa Clause events for the past 6 years at our local grocery store. 2 years ago a man came in with his son or daughter cant remember? however he was also carrying a pistol on his hip. really? sorry not the place. either way if your gun advocate or not it makes people uncomfortable espicialy in that atomoshere. no place for guns when talking to Santa sorry.

[BrunoSR]

As a member of the U.S. Military stationed at a military base within the 50 U.S. states, a sailor, soldier, Marine, or Air Force cannot keep a gun concealed or open carry on the military base. Only the military police can have a gun.

Compare that to Market Basket, Plymouth NH where anyone can go food shopping and have a gun, open carry.

Seriously?

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you-carry-gun-military-base.html

So, what am I missing here with this comparison to how the military treats personal use of a gun verses how the State of New Hampshire treats personal use of a gun. The military has much much more strict rules on personal weapons.

If an enlisted sailor walked around inside the Navy PX shopping store located inside the Portsmouth Navy Ship Yard and wore a handgun in a holster, he would most likely get stopped very fast by the Navy military police that patrol the military base. If the same sailor walked around the Market Basket wearing the same holstered gun, it is okay?

Everything you stated above is true.

However, the Supreme Court has always ruled in favor of the government with matters of constitutional rights that allows the military to restrict the rights of military personnel in ways that is not permitted in the civilian world.

[BrunoSR]

I've been lets say participating in the Santa Clause events for the past 6 years at our local grocery store. 2 years ago a man came in with his son or daughter cant remember? however he was also carrying a pistol on his hip. really? sorry not the place. either way if your gun advocate or not it makes people uncomfortable espicialy in that atomoshere. no place for guns when talking to Santa sorry.

But doesn't Santa Claus deliver to children, the Daisy Red Rider bb guns?

Just kidding, it goes back to the old saying, just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!

[Poor Richard]

As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?

A fragile ego.

[winniwannabe]

But doesn't Santa Claus deliver to children, the Daisy Red Rider bb guns?

Just kidding, it goes back to the old saying, just because you can, doesn't mean you should!!

I'd like to add to that...just because you should, doesn't mean it's smart. I
understand that NH has a very active hunting discipline, and that's fine. All
I'm saying is that I don't see the need to walk around flaunting a weapon.
I've vacationed in NH for 58 yrs. and have never seen anyone carrying. I'm
thinking maybe it's a political statement, which is fine, but the gist of the
issue is why are you walking around armed? Did you 10 yrs ago? 5 yrs ago?
I think it's not so much protection of life and property anymore. I believe it's
become more of a status symbol. As before, respectfully submitted.

[BrunoSR]

I'd like to add to that...just because you should, doesn't mean it's smart. I
understand that NH has a very active hunting discipline, and that's fine. All
I'm saying is that I don't see the need to walk around flaunting a weapon.
I've vacationed in NH for 58 yrs. and have never seen anyone carrying. I'm
thinking maybe it's a political statement, which is fine, but the gist of the
issue is why are you walking around armed? Did you 10 yrs ago? 5 yrs ago?
I think it's not so much protection of life and property anymore. I believe it's
become more of a status symbol. As before, respectfully submitted.

Just to be clear, I didn't say you should.

I said just because you can, DOESN'T mean you should.

[winniwannabe]

Sorry Bruno... I misspoke. Ur right...just because u can doesn't mean u should.
What I meant to say is that if u think that u should it doesn't mean that it's the smart thing to do.

[LikeLakes]

Liability isn't a concern... if it were, the insurance company would let us know.

It is balancing out the various factors to profitability.

Do I gain more customer/sales than I lose?
Does it cost me more to find employees willing to work in that environment?

These are the things we look at for restrictions and bans that are not government mandates.

The insurance company sparked the discussion about open carry restrictions. They said if we restrict it, they need to see our policy in writing which might affect our liability policy, which sent us to the lawyer to draft it, who advised against it.

[John Mercier]

As a member of the U.S. Military stationed at a military base within the 50 U.S. states, a sailor, soldier, Marine, or Air Force cannot keep a gun concealed or open carry on the military base. Only the military police can have a gun.

Compare that to Market Basket, Plymouth NH where anyone can go food shopping and have a gun, open carry.

Seriously?

https://www.military.com/pcs/can-you-carry-gun-military-base.html

So, what am I missing here with this comparison to how the military treats personal use of a gun verses how the State of New Hampshire treats personal use of a gun. The military has much much more strict rules on personal weapons.

If an enlisted sailor walked around inside the Navy PX shopping store located inside the Portsmouth Navy Ship Yard and wore a handgun in a holster, he would most likely get stopped very fast by the Navy military police that patrol the military base. If the same sailor walked around the Market Basket wearing the same holstered gun, it is okay?Market Basket being private property can make the restrictions. Once posted any customer found carrying would be asked to leave. Failure to leave after being asked to do so is trespass.
But it creates an extra headache for a business that may only occasionally have to deal with it.

[John Mercier]

The insurance company sparked the discussion about open carry restrictions. They said if we restrict it, they need to see our policy in writing which might affect our liability policy, which sent us to the lawyer to draft it, who advised against it.Went through that also, scan of the lawyer determined they were an advocate. He was released as he was being paid for his legal advise and not his personal opinion. Current legal advise is either way you could encounter a lawsuit. Current policy is no employee may carry a firearm, in person or in their vehicle, on company property unless specifically authorized or face immediate release from employment.

We haven't had any employees at my location bring up concerns on the issue surrounding customers.

[MAXUM]

Went through that also, scan of the lawyer determined they were an advocate. He was released as he was being paid for his legal advise and not his personal opinion. Current legal advise is either way you could encounter a lawsuit.

OK so you had a lawyer who advised you (I assume) not to enact a policy as you might face a lawsuit. Why is that not sound advise as you admit that either way you could face a lawsuit based on your "current" understanding? You may not like his personal beliefs but his guidance as your legal council has merit and was not just a personal opinion.

[chaseisland]

It seems that on this thread a person with open carry is equated as a good guy. Really? How do you know? Could be a bad guy thinking I'll open carry and they'll think I'm a good guy." Think I'll sling my biathlon rifle on and go shopping.

[WinnisquamZ]

It seems that on this thread a person with open carry is equated as a good guy. Really? How do you know? Could be a bad guy thinking I'll open carry and they'll think I'm a good guy." Think I'll sling my biathlon rifle on and go shopping.

Why are you assuming the individual is a bad guy or gal? Yes, you can sling your biathlon rifle on and go shopping. Throw on the medals too? Unless it’s just for show


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[XCR-700]

Interesting observations and opinions all, but somehow they all seem off the mark to me.

As always we are people that are quick to judge and quick to get worked up over any matter and so SLOW to really consider the other (or any other) perspective.

It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it.

Of the ~350 million people in America, has anyone ever been harmed by open carry? (Which as correctly stated was your rule as far back as most can remember,,,) I have not seen a single report of open carry actually resulting in an actual safety problem, EVER. Likely more have suffered from loud speakers in boats than from any case of open carry ever reported!

I am also always surprised by highly inflammatory statements such as “this country is psycho when it comes to guns” or “the Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today”

“Psycho”, now that’s really going to help convince any gun owner that there might be a better option than open carry to protect themself or their family.

And any statement regarding the Second Amendment as not having been crafted as a personal and individual right to keep and bear arms (and any limitation of what kind of firearms this includes) has clearly not been following this matter, or the foundation from where is comes. The very earliest writings on this matter tell a tale of a desire to ensure protection and not even against other individuals or wildlife (that was always assumed as a personal “human” right to defend oneself) the Second Amendment was intended to allow you to defend yourself against an oppressive government. And as such it would also be assumed that citizens would have the same level/type/kind of sidearm that any military would have, otherwise there would be no purpose to it.

So for the moment I must read most of this with the expectation that it is just drama for drama sake, and all I have to do to validate my perspective is look at the OP who provides us with some of the most entertaining posts since the dialog of the original Letterman show. I thoroughly enjoy such posts as entertainment, but I could never take most of the comments as serious or having validity as this mostly reads like reactionary drama.

Well that’s one persons opinion and something I feel certain some here will treat this as just more drama, so simply sit back and enjoy as the show continues as I will be doing ;-)

[thinkxingu]

Of the ~350 million people in America, has anyone ever been harmed by open carry?

I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?

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[FlyingScot]

Must remember until just a few years back open carry was the only way here in NH. To conceal ones firearm required a permit. Old habits are difficult to brake. Ones comment on “compensating for something”. I ask you to grow up.


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My humor is sophomoric, but my point is quite serious. There are plenty of good reasons for owning and using guns, but only a child would really believe that walking around with a gun in a New Hampshire supermarket somehow makes him or others safer. It's got to be something else

[John Mercier]

OK so you had a lawyer who advised you (I assume) not to enact a policy as you might face a lawsuit. Why is that not sound advise as you admit that either way you could face a lawsuit based on your "current" understanding? You may not like his personal beliefs but his guidance as your legal council has merit and was not just a personal opinion.The other legal council advised that litigation could occur either way... and thus did not take a stance on whether to enact a policy or not.
We pay for legal opinions, not personal opinions.

If you are uncomfortable with the people that advise you, you seek other advise.

[John Mercier]

Interesting observations and opinions all, but somehow they all seem off the mark to me.

As always we are people that are quick to judge and quick to get worked up over any matter and so SLOW to really consider the other (or any other) perspective.

It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it.

Of the ~350 million people in America, has anyone ever been harmed by open carry? (Which as correctly stated was your rule as far back as most can remember,,,) I have not seen a single report of open carry actually resulting in an actual safety problem, EVER. Likely more have suffered from loud speakers in boats than from any case of open carry ever reported!

I am also always surprised by highly inflammatory statements such as “this country is psycho when it comes to guns” or “the Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today”
“Psycho”, now that’s really going to help convince any gun owner that there might be a better option than open carry to protect themself or their family.
And any statement regarding the Second Amendment as not having been crafted as a personal and individual right to keep and bear arms (and any limitation of what kind of firearms this includes) has clearly not been following this matter, or the foundation from where is comes. The very earliest writings on this matter tell a tale of a desire to ensure protection and not even against other individuals or wildlife (that was always assumed as a personal “human” right to defend oneself) the Second Amendment was intended to allow you to defend yourself against an oppressive government. And as such it would also be assumed that citizens would have the same level/type/kind of sidearm that any military would have, otherwise there would be no purpose to it.

So for the moment I must read most of this with the expectation that it is just drama for drama sake, and all I have to do to validate my perspective is look at the OP who provides us with some of the most entertaining posts since the dialog of the original Letterman show. I thoroughly enjoy such posts as entertainment, but I could never take most of the comments as serious or having validity as this mostly reads like reactionary drama.

Well that’s one persons opinion and something I feel certain some here will treat this as just more drama, so simply sit back and enjoy as the show continues as I will be doing ;-)So you don't believe in private property? Or don't believe that a property owner exerts right over that property?

[Descant]

I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?
Not the guy who "smuggle" automatic rifles and fired on the crowd from a hotel room.

[BrunoSR]

I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?

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Well, actually, no!

[XCR-700]

I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?

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No, not at all, those were mass shootings.

They had NOTHING to do with open carry.

And that is exactly my point, do you really believe that any mass shooting was caused because someone was carrying openly, or did you just say that for the sake of adding to the drama of the thread,,,

As pure entertainment its a great soundbite, but if you actually believe that Sandy Hook or Las Vegas or any other mass shooting happened because an otherwise reasonable person was carrying openly, and then out of the blue a mass shooting just happened as a result of that person having their gun not concealed vs it being hidden under a jacket, then we can never actually resolve this debate.

Matters not to me as I would never announce I had a firearm on my person by displaying it in public. Thats just my philosophy, but the hard truth of the matter is open carry in 2021 is an extreme rarity and does not happen enough anywhere in America to warrant any discussion about it.

I 100% assure you you are far greater risk every day of being killed by a distracted driver using a cell phone or texting on it, or at greater risk of killing yourself while distracted by simply having a cell phone, than any risk from someone openly carrying a hand gun. So when we fully address that problem, I might take the concern about open carry a bit more seriously. Maybe,,,

Until then, this discussion is all just drama for dramas sake.

[XCR-700]

:)So you don't believe in private property? Or don't believe that a property owner exerts right over that property?

No idea where you get that idea from.

Clearly you have me confused with some other poster.

I believe America is a better place because we have a 1st and 2nd amendment and I fully believe in people having god given rights to defend themselves and their families and their property.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comments???

[LikeLakes]

XCR, I appreciate your posts, agree with much of them, you have a thoughtful approach that it great because it makes me think things through.

One disagreement I have is calling a healthy discussion "just drama for drama's sake". I think this, at least so far, is a pretty good discussion, good points on all sides. Ok, I think comparing a military base to a Market Basket is not a great analogy but then again it started the discussion. It's nice to be on a forum where the discussion is about constitution and amendments and private property and not a bunch of name calling.

[John Mercier]

The restriction on carry would be the invoking of a property right.
There is no ''freedom of choice'' when your ''choice'' is an attempt to override someone else's right.

Other than an owner's personally feeling on the issue, for business, that is mostly the relay of several inputs to revenue and expenses.

For instance, I gave motorcycling, snowmobiling, my PWC, my ATV (even my officer position in the state association), plus many other things... because I wanted to be the choice of old money customers that do not find those things acceptable.

If I learned to sail or ski, or improved my golf game, I could even gain credibility. Luckily, I can handle more of the systems than the other salespeople, and have more of an architectural background... so I get asked for.

So I have had to deal with my ''choices'' both being acceptable to other people and their property rights, along with business interests that are a lot broader than many may understand.

[XCR-700]

XCR, I appreciate your posts, agree with much of them, you have a thoughtful approach that it great because it makes me think things through.

One disagreement I have is calling a healthy discussion "just drama for drama's sake". I think this, at least so far, is a pretty good discussion, good points on all sides. Ok, I think comparing a military base to a Market Basket is not a great analogy but then again it started the discussion. It's nice to be on a forum where the discussion is about constitution and amendments and private property and not a bunch of name calling.

I think most discussions here are very reasonable and many very helpful, and I very much appreciate the viewpoints shared here. Well most of the time, but this one started off on a bit of an odd note and it is one of the most polarizing matters Americans are facing. So I intentionally kept away until I saw how all over the place this conversation went. In my opinion calling America (and assuming that means us) psychos for our desire to own (and possibly bear firearms) is drama. In my opinion calling mass shootings a result of open carry is drama. And so on,,,

Too much said about firearms issues is emotional not fact based, and thats what makes it drama for dramas sake.

If the conversation addressed concerns of mishandling open carry weapons, or holsters that did not secure the guns, or any number of legitimate concerns then it would be quite different and I would likely have considered it an in interesting and legitimate discussion. But it is clear that some feel that that simply showing a gun in public constituted a danger to others, and for me thats just drama.

I could speculate and raise the drama level, by saying maybe these folks were off duty law enforcement of some other profession that allows constant carry. I could speculate that these folks had suffered violent crime and simply wanted to send a message that they would not be victims again. I could do a lot of things to ramp up the drama, but I feel like this is a very important matter and one that should be taken more seriously than calling us psychos or blaming open carry for mass shootings.

The fact is it went as these kinds of polarizing issues usually go, too many go to there opposite corner and little meaningful discussion or debate actually happens. Sure there were some productive comments, but mostly drama from catbird seat.

Well thats what I saw, if you disagree, I cant fault you, its just a different observation and I respect your right to see it as you do. No heart burn here.

If you can do anything to elevate the conversation I will applaud you, and maybe you already have in your attempt to reach out to me. So for that I tip my hat to you. If you bump into me on the lake, tell me I promised to buy you a round and we can debate my "need" to buy some expensive and shiny props for the boat, or maybe my desire buy,,, well any of the crazy things on my list ;-) Thanks

[XCR-700]

The restriction on carry would be the invoking of a property right.
There is no ''freedom of choice'' when your ''choice'' is an attempt to override someone else's right.

Other than an owner's personally feeling on the issue, for business, that is mostly the relay of several inputs to revenue and expenses.

For instance, I gave motorcycling, snowmobiling, my PWC, my ATV (even my officer position in the state association), plus many other things... because I wanted to be the choice of old money customers that do not find those things acceptable.

If I learned to sail or ski, or improved my golf game, I could even gain credibility. Luckily, I can handle more of the systems than the other salespeople, and have more of an architectural background... so I get asked for.

So I have had to deal with my ''choices'' both being acceptable to other people and their property rights, along with business interests that are a lot broader than many may understand.

I'm not following, but thats ok, I may be more block-headed than most ;-)

If I can attempt to trace that back to the original post are you attempting to draw some line from my comments to some right of Market Basket to allow or prohibit open carry??? As I made no comment about that it doesn't click with me, but then as I said I'm not following so maybe I'm way off track,,,

[thinkxingu]

Incidentally, I've been in the process of picking up a rifle and handgun to start familiarizing L'il Buddy and Bug Bug with firearms and firearms safety, and I ended up grabbing both today. As a former MA resident, I was weirded out by how...simple...it was to buy and transport both. I hadn't known how open NH laws were to MA.

As I said above, I think we're lucky in the northeast because we have among the best standards of living, which means low crime, gun-based or otherwise.

I still won't be open-carrying my new Dirty Harry Special (jk)!

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[FlyingScot]

Incidentally, I've been in the process of picking up a rifle and handgun to start familiarizing L'il Buddy and Bug Bug with firearms and firearms safety, and I ended up grabbing both today.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

This is interesting--why do you think it is important to familiarize your kids with guns?

Just to be clear--I enjoyed rifles as a kid. But unless I were a hunter, it would never occur to me to think of guns as a life skill the way you seem to describe it.

[John Mercier]

I'm not following, but thats ok, I may be more block-headed than most ;-)

If I can attempt to trace that back to the original post are you attempting to draw some line from my comments to some right of Market Basket to allow or prohibit open carry??? As I made no comment about that it doesn't click with me, but then as I said I'm not following so maybe I'm way off track,,,

''It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it. ''

You suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights... it never does.
It does not matter if something doesn't ''hurt me''. Property owners act in their own self-interest.

That self-interest has much more effect on our policies than government mandates.

So should a restriction occur, it would be due to public (i.e. customer reaction ) to what is happening.

People tend to push an advocacy position to the point that the negative occurs.

I am sure that in the past people have cooked on Weirs Beach and listened to music... but they went so far as to agitate the backlash.

[Biggd]

I'm not a gun person myself, could care less about guns. But I have a dozen or so friends that are gun fanatics and at least 2 or 3 of them shouldn't be carrying. They are loose cannons and when I'm with them I try to keep my guard up.
One took his own life, about 2 months ago, not with his gun but he's dead non the less. So I really question the stability of all many of these legal gun owners.
IMO, anyone with a gun can be provoked to use it under duress, whether it's warranted or not.

[XCR-700]

''It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it. ''

You suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights... it never does.
It does not matter if something doesn't ''hurt me''. Property owners act in their own self-interest.

That self-interest has much more effect on our policies than government mandates.

So should a restriction occur, it would be due to public (i.e. customer reaction ) to what is happening.

People tend to push an advocacy position to the point that the negative occurs.

I am sure that in the past people have cooked on Weirs Beach and listened to music... but they went so far as to agitate the backlash.

Ok, maybe we are getting somewhere now, RE; "you suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights"

Not sure how "you" came to that conclusion, but lets be 100% clear, thats your interpretations.

If I have a right of freedom of choice that allows me to carry a handgun openly in public, I see no reason that a public space is considered your property. So long as you do not do something discriminatory or sufficiently dangerous as to put me at actual risk, you can make up any stupid rule about access to your property you want. You are the one who will suffer your potentially bad decision.

So if you own the local grocery store and wish to prohibit open fire arms carry inside and your customers decide your policy is not agreeable to them, they can chose to not buy from you and to discourage everyone they know to not buy from you. That is freedom of choice that is exercised by both parties. Likely both will suffer. You will lose sales, and they will have to find another store to shop at.

Does that make any sense/work for you?

Am I still not on the right wavelength to get your message???

I feel like we are talking cross-purposes and manufacturing even more drama and accomplishing nothing.

Sorry if I just cant seem to make the connection to what your point is about how freedom of choice negatively impacts property owners, I feel like its just the opposite. Sorry I just dont see a conflict in freedom of choice and property ownership. Property owner are not prohibited from making their own choices.

Sorry no hard feelings, and not knocking you, just not syncing up.

[Descant]

The restriction on carry would be the invoking of a property right.
There is no ''freedom of choice'' when your ''choice'' is an attempt to override someone else's right.

Other than an owner's personally feeling on the issue, for business, that is mostly the relay of several inputs to revenue and expenses.

For instance, I gave motorcycling, snowmobiling, my PWC, my ATV (even my officer position in the state association), plus many other things... because I wanted to be the choice of old money customers that do not find those things acceptable.

If I learned to sail or ski, or improved my golf game, I could even gain credibility. Luckily, I can handle more of the systems than the other salespeople, and have more of an architectural background... so I get asked for.

So I have had to deal with my ''choices'' both being acceptable to other people and their property rights, along with business interests that are a lot broader than many may understand.
Sorry, I don't understand where you're headed with this.

[thinkxingu]

This is interesting--why do you think it is important to familiarize your kids with guns?

Just to be clear--I enjoyed rifles as a kid. But unless I were a hunter, it would never occur to me to think of guns as a life skill the way you seem to describe it.The short: as a teacher, I believe that knowledge is power.

The long: 1. There is strength in knowledge. For years, we avoided discussing sex, drugs, suicide, etc. because we felt being exposed to those things would increase the likelihood of their occurrence. We know now that education—on all things, even the taboo—reduces that likelihood greatly while increasing one's comfort, confidence, and ability to move through the world with composure.

2. In my world, the more exposed one is to various activities/behaviors/lifestyles, the more likely one is able to empathize and form legitimate beliefs/opinions/worldviews.

I think both of these are required to be good Americans.

Finally, shooting is fun, and I just love doing new things—researching and learning all the new jargon, being part of new groups of people, etc. This next half year will be pew pew time, and then we'll see what's next!
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[XCR-700]

The short: as a teacher, I believe that knowledge is power.

The long: 1. There is strength in knowledge. For years, we avoided discussing sex, drugs, suicide, etc. because we felt being exposed to those things would increase the likelihood of their occurrence. We know now that education—on all things, even the taboo—reduces that likelihood greatly while increasing one's comfort, confidence, and ability to move through the world with composure.

2. In my world, the more exposed one is to various activities/behaviors/lifestyles, the more likely one is able to empathize and form legitimate beliefs/opinions/worldviews.

I think both of these are required to be good Americans.

Finally, shooting is fun, and I just love doing new things—researching and learning all the new jargon, being part of new groups of people, etc. This next half year will be pew pew time, and then we'll see what's next!
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RE "shooting is fun" I so love to hear people say that. Thank You!

Too often discussions about guns seems to lead to a never ending debate about whats legal or not, what the 2nd amendment means, what guns we should be allowed to buy, ETC, Etc, etc,,,

Often we dance around why anyone would want them (guns). "Because its my right", "I need to defend,,, something", "no one is telling me what to do", YADA, Yada, yada,,

Most rarely someone will actually say its fun. An unsolicited honest and genuine answer; its fun. What better response could there be than Its FUN!

No one proposes licensing owners of steak knives or creating smart bats that prevent them them from falling into the wrong hands and being used to bludgeon someone to death, but the argument that shooting is fun is all the reason I should need to buy and own a gun ("because I like shooting") seems unthinkable and unacceptable to far too many. Even though more people are killed by knives every year than ever killed by "black rifles" since its inception (excepting for war and law enforcement) but we still question and challenge people about why you would ever want one. And here we have the perfect answer, because its fun.

What a wonderful notion, shooting is fun therefore I should be able to do it.

And my recreational shooting puts no one at risk. Wow, its like a gift.

And now this is clearly drama for dramas sake.

Just owning it ;-)

[fatlazyless]

So, I was at the Market Basket last night about 7:30 and got a sub-of-the-week, roast beef, made up by one pf the sandwich makers. Meanwhile the sandwich maker, he's busy making up about five different subs and setting them aside for a customer to come get them.

While I'm telling the sandwich maker what veggies I want, up walks a young guy, about 30, for the waiting order and he's wearing a large black semi-auto hand gun and this definitely gets some attention by other shoppers as he walks past them toward the sandwich counter.

So why does he wear a gun into this Market Basket? Probably because he can, he likes to show it off while walking through this busy supermarket, and they make very good sub-sandwiches for $5.29. Sub-of-the-week is 4.99. He got quick service by the sandwich maker who immediately gave him the waiting subs ...... yes sir. My sense was he just likes to parade around the busy store, wearing a big black gun in a black holster, with light beige pants and white shirt, is something fun to do, to show it off?

As he was walking away with his sub order, I felt like saying out loud; 'HEY BUDDY, HOW COME YOU WEAR A GUN INTO THIS STORE LIKE THAT?' and, you know, challenge him a little on this...... but I decided not and kept my mouth shut as he walked away ..... my smart discretion.

[randalnh]

fll - did it ever occur to you that this individual might be a law enforcement officer, like an FBI or ATF agent or state trooper? You seem to go right to the "must be a gun nut" attitude without knowing the facts. Maybe he is just a "gun nut" exercising his constitutional right to open carry in NH.

[XCR-700]

So, I was at the Market Basket last night about 7:30 and got a sub-of-the-week, roast beef, made up by one pf the sandwich makers. Meanwhile the sandwich maker, he's busy making up about five different subs and setting them aside for a customer to come get them.

While I'm telling the sandwich maker what veggies I want, up walks a young guy, about 30, for the waiting order and he's wearing a large black semi-auto hand gun and this definitely gets some attention by other shoppers as he walks past them toward the sandwich counter.

So why does he wear a gun into this Market Basket? Probably because he can, he likes to show it off while walking through this busy supermarket, and they make very good sub-sandwiches for $5.29. Sub-of-the-week is 4.99. He got quick service by the sandwich maker who immediately gave him the waiting subs ...... yes sir. My sense was he just likes to parade around the busy store, wearing a big black gun in a black holster, with light beige pants and white shirt, is something fun to do, to show it off?

As he was walking away with his sub order, I felt like saying out loud; 'HEY BUDDY, HOW COME YOU WEAR A GUN INTO THIS STORE LIKE THAT?' and, you know, challenge him a little on this...... but I decided not and kept my mouth shut as he walked away ..... my smart discretion.

OUTSTANDING!

So from my average human read of your post I learned the following:

1. First and foremost your concern about open carry has not inhibited you from continuing to shop at the offending location in any way. Almost like bad TV, you seem to be drawn back to the show.

2. Your concern for this matter (or interesting in telling us about it) remains high.

3. You were able to control your impulses to make a public scene that would bring even more attention to these individuals than they bring to themselves. But then you probably realized that "they" might actually like that,,,

4. And finally and possibly most importantly, NOTHING happened because of the open carry you observed. No one was harmed. No public riot occurred. No children were trampled because you didn't cause a commotion. We learned that open carry worked and worked well without any incident of any kind.

While I personally have zero desire to carry openly while shopping at the grocery in NH, I can now feel 100% comfortable because of your dutiful reporting on the matter this its possible, its safe, and it works.

This is what truly makes America great. They can carry openly, you can complain about it, we all can enjoy the education AND entertainment we got from the thread.

All is well. Does it really get better than this. How could it, it seem pretty much perfect, everyone got what they wanted.

And best yet, the sun came up this morning and we are all alive to enjoy it, even though we cant actually see it. So if there is an analogy to be had here, maybe concealed carry is like a cloudy day where you dont see the sun, and open carry is like a clear day where you do see it. And most or the time, not always, but most of the time, we tend to like sunny days better. That said I personally enjoy a cloud or two on a hot day and so for me a big Tee shirt or jacket covering a concealed carry remains a pretty good option (but based on this thread, no necessary).

Entertaining as always, please keep em coming. Happy HUMP day.

[fatlazyless]

Sept 6, 2019: Walmart, Kroger and CVS ban open-carry firearms in their stores.

https://time.com/5670809/walmart-kroger-cvs-open-carry-gun-ban/ ...... U.S. stores are asking customers to stop openly carrying weapons.

You know .... there's no open carry allowed at the nearby Walmart and the Market Basket does a totally better job for making fresh sub sandwiches!

[XCR-700]

Sept 6, 2019: Walmart, Kroger and CVS ban open-carry firearms in their stores.

https://time.com/5670809/walmart-kroger-cvs-open-carry-gun-ban/ ...... U.S. stores are asking customers to stop openly carrying weapons.

You know .... there's no open carry allowed at the nearby Walmart and the Market Basket does a totally better job for making fresh sub sandwiches!

Clearly they have failed to read your thread on the matter or they would have learned just how effective open carry really is.

I hope others will learn from your experience.

And just like you are 100% correct that open carry is harmless (based on your statements of your experience) I also fully agree that Market Basket makes much better fresh sub sandwiches than Walmart (aka Subway inside Walmart) but that is mostly based on my regular purchases of meatball subs from both, though from visual observation I believe the MB cold cut subs may be even more superior to Walmart than the meatball subs are. Good call on the subs! Thats said, automotive supplies are best bought at Walmart to ensure freshness as MB seems to have low turnover of motor oil and such.

Keep up the good work!

Six, two and even, over and out, or who was that masked man,,,

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--POgZVE2c--/t_Preview/b_rgb:c62b29,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1482142639/production/designs/966984_1.jpg

[ITD]

You know, I'm calling BS on this thread. I've been in that MB dozens of times and have never seen anyone open carry.

[BillJohn]

Although I find most of FLL's post to be a waste of time to read, I thought this time he made a valid observation.
I am not going to say anything that has not been said already but here are my 2 cents.
I own guns and have a concealed carry permit. I have taken a gun safety course. I have carried maybe twice. Personally I think a gun gives one false courage and is more likely to get you into trouble than keep you out of it. If I were to carry I would take all the gun courses I could find to teach me how to respond and shoot in an emergency. Without that training I am more likely to get myself and bystanders killed. Cops have that training and still get themselves into trouble.

Open carry? What is the point? The only point I can think of is intimidation of the innocent. If I am a bad guy who wants to do you harm your open display of a weapon is not in any way going to deter me...rather I would thank you for the heads up.

If I owned a store such as MB I would not allow guns to be openly displayed. If someone sued me fine...guess we would let the Courts decide.

[SAB1]

fll - did it ever occur to you that this individual might be a law enforcement officer, like an FBI or ATF agent or state trooper? You seem to go right to the "must be a gun nut" attitude without knowing the facts. Maybe he is just a "gun nut" exercising his constitutional right to open carry in NH.

Most off duty cops I know always carry concealed.

[VitaBene]

Most off duty cops I know always carry concealed.
Yes and if they are in plainclothes carrying open, often their badge is displayed on their belt.

[XCR-700]

Although I find most of FLL's post to be a waste of time to read, I thought this time he made a valid observation.
I am not going to say anything that has not been said already but here are my 2 cents.
I own guns and have a concealed carry permit. I have taken a gun safety course. I have carried maybe twice. Personally I think a gun gives one false courage and is more likely to get you into trouble than keep you out of it. If I were to carry I would take all the gun courses I could find to teach me how to respond and shoot in an emergency. Without that training I am more likely to get myself and bystanders killed. Cops have that training and still get themselves into trouble.

Open carry? What is the point? The only point I can think of is intimidation of the innocent. If I am a bad guy who wants to do you harm your open display of a weapon is not in any way going to deter me...rather I would thank you for the heads up.

If I owned a store such as MB I would not allow guns to be openly displayed. If someone sued me fine...guess we would let the Courts decide.

Personally i think the notion that "a gun gives one false courage and is more likely to get you into trouble than keep you out of it" may have some validity right up to the point of an incident, and at that moment the situation will change and go one of several different ways; the gun holder may freeze and become unable to do anything, the gun holder may exercise very cautious consideration about next steps, the gun holder may panic and do something rash, the gun holder may take positive aggressive steps to end the confrontation, the gun holder may get cocky and cause more problems. I'm sure there are even more ways this could unfold, but thats enough for the moment.

As for you prohibiting open carry in a store you own, why would that end up in court? Unless you did somethings stupid like only allowing white men to carry openly, then you might get hit with a discrimination complaint. Otherwise organizations have all kinds of rules they can implement. Long ago many restaurants would not let you in if you didnt have on a jacket and tie. Bars frequently will not let in customers who have dog chain necklaces or motorcycle chain belts, some places prohibit gang-wear including public schools! So far as I know open carry is not a 100% universal everywhere standard, for all things there are limitations, and hopefully they are reasonable.

It would go a long way toward meeting all parties interests for a company that does not want open carry in their store were to say something like "please conceal all firearms to ensure our environment is welcoming and meets the expectations of our our customers regarding their safety" or anything rather than the old heavy handed approach of "open carry is not permitted in our store"

The choice is theirs, but one might satisfy most customers while the other will surely alienate some and infuriate others.

So many choices, and we still make so many bad ones. Or, just more drama,,,

[Billy Bob]

Based on all this discourse I decided to go shopping at the Plymouth Market Basket today. I thought it would be interesting to see all the low life’s that think they need a gun , primarily a exposed gun to feel totally free.
I was terribly disappointed and dident see a single NRA card carrier in the crowd that felt he or she had to walk around with a exposed weapon to prove he they were more American then the Fox News group. I did see more tattoos then is normal but sadly no guns. Perhaps this has been overdon by our friend FLl

[LikeLakes]

I took this video entering MB today, might be safer to just stay away .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CizzE-zZo

[John Mercier]

Sorry, I don't understand where you're headed with this.Everyone wants to presume that what they are doing is socially acceptable - then a restriction on what they are doing comes about and they complain rather than realize they never should have been doing it.

[fatlazyless]

If these four different men wearing guns inside the Plymouth Market Basket, all individually by themself, over the last month or so, were not in fact REAL, then why has Walmart felt the need for a no open carry rule? Because it scares the other customers inside the store seeing these different guys walking around with a semi-auto hand gun in a holster on their hip.

In Plymouth NH, the Court House, Post Office, Speare Hospital. Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, and Rite Aid all have 'no weapons' signs posted at their entry which indicates this has been happening and these locations decided to post a no weapon notice.

It's up to Market Basket if they think a 'no open carry sign' is needed similar to these other places in Plymouth.

In a post up above, someone says the Mount Washington cruise ship has a 'no weapons' sign posted at its entry way, so if it is good for the Mount then it is probably a good thing for Market Basket to do, as well.

[tis]

I guess I don't see why open carry bothers people more than that fact that some carry concealed??? The only difference is you know and are reminded if you can see it vs. wondering if someone has one?

[Newbiesaukee]

I guess I don't see why open carry bothers people more than that fact that some carry concealed??? The only difference is you know and are reminded if you can see it vs. wondering if someone has one?

I think you are correct. Even many folks made uncomfortable by seeing the guns recognize this seeming irrationality. Although there is also the idea that, true or not, people who open carry are more dangerous.

Unfortunately, instilling fear, willful misinterpretation, and misinformation has played a daily role in many areas of our lives.

Why should the subject of open carry be any different?

[Lakegeezer]

I guess I don't see why open carry bothers people more than that fact that some carry concealed??? The only difference is you know and are reminded if you can see it vs. wondering if someone has one?Same thing could be said about your genitals. :laugh:

[XCR-700]

If these four different men wearing guns inside the Plymouth Market Basket, all individually by themself, over the last month or so, were not in fact REAL, then why has Walmart felt the need for a no open carry rule? Because it scares the other customers inside the store seeing these different guys walking around with a semi-auto hand gun in a holster on their hip.

In Plymouth NH, the Court House, Post Office, Speare Hospital. Mid-State Health, Pemi Baker Community Health, CVS-Pharmacy, and Rite Aid all have 'no weapons' signs posted at their entry which indicates this has been happening and these locations decided to post a no weapon notice.

It's up to Market Basket if they think a 'no open carry sign' is needed similar to these other places in Plymouth.

In a post up above, someone says the Mount Washington cruise ship has a 'no weapons' sign posted at its entry way, so if it is good for the Mount then it is probably a good thing for Market Basket to do, as well.

Interesting how very quickly the conversation changes from a concern about open carry to having a gun at all. Re; "'no weapons' sign" as opposed to no open carry.

Again this is why we can rarely have reasonable discussions about such matters. The parties too often go to opposite corners, and then revel their true feelings on the matter.

So in the end it is not sufficient to hide your gun, we are back to the you cannot have a gun at all or someone else will "feel" uncomfortable.

Lets think about all the things we have been uncomfortable about over the last 100 years that have all been remedied by sensible people saying we need not fear this. For example; hippies, bikers, people of color, people with physical deformities, people from other countries, people of other religions, ETC Etc etc,,, Its our fear and ignorance that shows brightest when we judge based on appearance alone.

So again,,, what have we learned from all this;

1. First and foremost your concern about open carry has not inhibited you from actually continuing to shop at the offending location(s) in any way. Almost like bad TV, you seem to be drawn back to the show.

2. Your concern for this matter (or interesting in telling us about it) continues to remain very high.

3. You have been able to control your impulses to make a public scene about such matters that would likely have brought even more attention to these individuals than they bring to themselves. But then you probably realized that "they" might actually like that, so your self-control is appreciated.

4. And finally and again possibly the most important lesson, NOTHING happened because of the open carry you observed. No one was harmed. No public riot occurred. No children were trampled because you didn't cause a commotion. We learned that open carry worked and worked well without any incident of any kind. you simply felt uncomfortable for a couple of moments and you got over it.

Well done.

I feel certain if you can keep watching the life coach commercials on TV about how we call best conduct ourselves in public, your progress will continue.

In the end, like it was fully accepted 100 years ago, open carry will soon be of little bother to anyone who doesn't live in fear of spooks or demons or shadows, as we have seen it clearly causes no harm. Not a single case of harm coming to our ~350 million Americans has been posted here as a direct result of open carry. Few things in fact seem safer. Isn't that truly outstanding, that we have discovered such a safe activity. Hard to believe open carry is safer than swimming with a noodle,,,

I feel certain that in time you will overcome your fear of open carry, unless the real reason for the post is to eliminate everyones ability to keep and bear firearms Re: "no weapons' sign" as opposed to a no open carry sign,,,

DRAMA, Drama, drama,,, Makes for interesting reading is nothing else.

[gillygirl]

Interesting how very quickly the conversation changes from a concern about open carry to having a gun at all. Re; "'no weapons' sign" as opposed to no open carry.

Again this is why we can rarely have reasonable discussions about such matters. The parties too often go to opposite corners, and then revel their true feelings on the matter.

So in the end it is not sufficient to hide your gun, we are back to the you cannot have a gun at all or someone else will "feel" uncomfortable.

It’s not as if the sign is saying you can’t have a gun at all, just not while you’re in that establishment. It’s every business’s right to determine what they will and will not allow in their establishment, just as it is your right to own a gun.

I grew up in suburban Boston having never seen a gun. When I moved to a semi-rural area and saw some hunters caring their shotguns out of the woods, I was startled initially, but then realized it was perfectly normal there. When I saw my first open carry, I remembered I was in Florida…perfectly normal there. Sometimes it just takes people time to adjust.

As for drama, don’t you think your long posts add to it?


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[FlyingScot]

DRAMA, Drama, drama,,, Makes for interesting reading is nothing else.

With all due respect, the length of your numerous posts highlights your passion on the topic and is adding more "drama" without really getting at the heart of FLL's point.

There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car.

[fatlazyless]

The Market Basket in Plymouth, NH is an excellent store, especially all the prepared food like the sub sandwiches, salads, and tv-dinner style meals for about 4.99. The new store is a great welcome addition to the area and it opened in May, 2020.

www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us

Under Inquiry ..... click on Store Experience

After filling in my name, email, and phone number, here's a way for me to send them a message about my store experience sharing the store inside space with four different men with semi-automatic handguns in holsters on four different days.

This is like a crazy impossible situation, doing the Market Basket shopping with guys with guns casually walking around the store.

If you feel the same as me, then go ahead and let them know what you think about open carry allowed inside the Plymouth NH, Market Basket.

[XCR-700]

It’s not as if the sign is saying you can’t have a gun at all, just not while you’re in that establishment. It’s every business’s right to determine what they will and will not allow in their establishment, just as it is your right to own a gun.

I grew up in suburban Boston having never seen a gun. When I moved to a semi-rural area and saw some hunters caring their shotguns out of the woods, I was startled initially, but then realized it was perfectly normal there. When I saw my first open carry, I remembered I was in Florida…perfectly normal there. Sometimes it just takes people time to adjust.

As for drama, don’t you think your long posts add to it?


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Re; stores rights, I 100% agree with you. But the store(s) are not making such decisions in a vacuum. And also likely they are not making such decisions based on a pole of their customers. In America we react to the loudest voice in the crowd, so people who are currently enjoying carrying openly and not perceiving any problem are going to store managers to say I want you to make sure you hear my preference to continue to do so. What store owners usually hear is the few who complain and then they react to that vocal group without gathering input from the masses. And once you put any restriction in place, this X times harder to get it overturned unless there is a massive uprising of concern.

As for you comments about it taking people time to adjust, I totally agree. This will fizzle. NH will not become the wild west of old, and people will get used to the very few who insist in showing off their hardware.

And finally we get to drama, and again you are 100% correct, and thats my goal in those long posts. As I have found over the years that the only way you tamp down utter nonsense is to totally ignore it, or drown it out with an even higher level of drama. Personally I prefer to ignore it and eventually I tire of the nonsense, but some matters hit a nerve as being total BS and I feel some sense to speak up and try to crush the madness.

And so in this case the only two valid points anyone should be interested in is that some people are uncomfortable seeing open carry, much like they were uncomfortable my bikers in Laconia many years ago or seeing people from foreign countries or monks chanting in a public place. But ultimately we got over all of those fears.

And the other point is that open carry has resulted in no actual harm coming to anyone. Virtually no other activity at this time has such a near perfect record of not impacting the public. Even growing flowers has produced more problems with people getting stung by bees!

So there we have it in a nutshell, open carry is an activity that an infinitesimally small percent of our population practice and it makes some portion of our population uncomfortable. AND so far, it has resulted in no actual harm being suffered by anyone. I only wish the discussion could stop here.

[randalnh]

I guess it bears reminding you all that "gun-free zones" are invitations to persons intent on doing others harm. You never know when a former employee or customer of any kind of establishment has a grudge and is about to shoot up a place. Has happened before and odds are it will happen again.

If an establishment prohibits people like me from carrying (concealed, of course) where I want, I lose the right to protect myself, possibly my family and maybe others who are in harms way.

I was taught at a young age to be self-reliant and I believe that "it is better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it." Those of you who disagree can wait 10 minutes for the police to arrive...

[XCR-700]

With all due respect, the length of your numerous posts highlights your passion on the topic and is adding more "drama" without really getting at the heart of FLL's point.

There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car.

Re: Drama, you are 100% correct that is the goal as nothing meaningful can come from this thread or needs to come from it as there is no problem! This thread was created as drama, it is about feelings not an actual danger. If your were speaking about handling a gun in a public place such as loading it, or some other such activity it would be a totally different matter. But its not, for all you or anyone knows the guns are not loaded, or functional or even real. It is all speculative. No actual incident has occurred, no harm has been done, this is simply drama about someone feeling uncomfortable. Well I feel uncomfortable about all kinds of things, and I dont seek outright bans on them. I personally feel more threatened by a very large and mean looking dog than anyone with a gun in a holster. You may feel differently and as such I respect your desire to walk any big mean looking dog you choose, but I dont have to like it, just as you dont have to like someone carrying a gun, but should you be attempting to prohibit it,,,

As for "no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket" Sorry but I thought this was America where we dont need to justify every action we take and most things should not be prohibited or restricted unless there was a credible risk to others, which in this case we have clearly established there is virtually ZERO history of incident.

I fully respect your right to opinions and to your concerns, but unless backed up by legitimate data your concerns and opinions should not result in an imposed restriction on others.

Now please understand this is coming from someone who has never carried a weapon openly, will never carry an weapon openly, very rarely has every carried a concealed weapon, and personally does not like seeing open carry. But I will not ever raise my voice against it, as I perceive no legitimate risk from it, and I do not believe I should be able to step on someone else preference to carry openly.

Once you step on any preference for no valid reason, you open the flood gates. That is a proven fact.

Your opinion is clearly different, I only hope you can attempt to see the other side of this matter such as I do, again as someone not thrilled by open carry.

ATB

[SAB1]

"There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car."

And the response to this just as said above:

"it is better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it."

I don't tote a gun around with me all time but this quote randalnh is spot on and pops into my head from time to time. Hopefully a time never comes when its needed and not onboard but for anyone that does have one with them all the time I say good job, just keep it discreet.

[XCR-700]

The Market Basket in Plymouth, NH is an excellent store, especially all the prepared food like the sub sandwiches, salads, and tv-dinner style meals for about 4.99. The new store is a great welcome addition to the area and it opened in May, 2020.

www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us

Under Inquiry ..... click on Store Experience

After filling in my name, email, and phone number, here's a way for me to send them a message about my store experience sharing the store inside space with four different men with semi-automatic handguns in holsters on four different days.

This is like a crazy impossible situation, doing the Market Basket shopping with guys with guns casually walking around the store.

If you feel the same as me, then go ahead and let them know what you think about open carry allowed inside the Plymouth NH, Market Basket.

Thanks for the tip, I just thanked them for not bowing down to extremest and fear mongers among us who would raise concern about non-issues. That by standing up to the few who would impact the many over nonsense and not banning firearms, they have proven why they were a successful organization and would continue to do well as people recognized the respect they had for their customers and their customers preferences.

One can only imagine what would be the next thing banned after firearms were prohibited. Pocket knives, oxygen generators/tanks (they could be weaponized) Tee shorts in offending colors, sandals/flip flops (god knows no one wants to look at ugly feet) Men in tank tops (you might be uncomfortable seeing back hair),,,

Its a scary world out there,,,

[YOLO]

With all due respect, the length of your numerous posts highlights your passion on the topic and is adding more "drama" without really getting at the heart of FLL's point.

There is no good reason for a civilian to wear a gun in the supermarket, and several good reasons--safety, manners, neighborliness--why a person should just keep his gun in his car.

A gun left in the car is as useful as a condom left in a wrapper. It does you no good when you need protection.

I suggest folks who have an issue with open or concealed carry move to the nanny state to our south. They have a big problem with our Constitution and don't like people defending themselves either.

[LikeLakes]

This is like a crazy impossible situation, doing the Market Basket shopping with guys with guns casually walking around the store.


I'm not sure what's impossible about the situation. I think you may be fixating on it. As I've stated, it's not clear to me why someone needs a firearm on their hip to buy cheese and crackers. But I do believe in laws and rules, and in that MB they have the right to. I know you don't like it, and are voicing that to the management, and that is your right to do so.

But in terms of you going in and filling a shopping cart, checking out and heading home, if this is causing you stress and discomfort you simply need to shop somewhere else. I don't personally see it in any way as a "crazy impossible situation". You were 100% safe shopping there in the past, you still are now.

Don't misunderstand, I do respect your opinion and like that it prompted this discussion, which I'm finding interesting.

[tis]

Same thing could be said about your genitals. :laugh:

Well, I guess if they frighten ya'!!!:laugh::laugh:

[Garcia]

A gun left in the car is as useful as a condom left in a wrapper. It does you no good when you need protection.

I suggest folks who have an issue with open or concealed carry move to the nanny state to our south. They have a big problem with our Constitution and don't like people defending themselves either.

It's interesting that in 2017 (the first year I saw after a quick Google search) Hawaii, NY, and MA - all with much stricter gun laws than NH - have per capita gun death rates of 3.7 or lower while NH has a per capita gun death rate of 10.4. Alaska, with one of the least restrictive set of gun laws in the country and the highest amount of guns per capita leads the nation in per capita gun deaths.

[XCR-700]

Well, I guess if they frighten ya'!!!:laugh::laugh:

Now thats fully!

[XCR-700]

It's interesting that in 2017 (the first year I saw after a quick Google search) Hawaii, NY, and MA - all with much stricter gun laws than NH - have per capita gun death rates of 3.7 or lower while NH has a per capita gun death rate of 10.4. Alaska, with one of the least restrictive set of gun laws in the country and the highest amount of guns per capita leads the nation in per capita gun deaths.

Higher death by gun rates is not a problem if its the right people who are on the receiving end of the barrel, so your post begs the question were these murders, or shootings by law enforcement of citizens defending against criminals???

Posts like that without all the information are grossly misleading and usually manipulated.

Details matter.

[gillygirl]

Higher death by gun rates is not a problem if its the right people who are on the receiving end of the barrel, so your post begs the question were these murders, or shootings by law enforcement of citizens defending against criminals???

Posts like that without all the information are grossly misleading and usually manipulated.

Details matter.

The most recent data I could quickly find for gun murder rates was from 2010, and showed that MA was at 1.8 per 100,000 people while it was 0.4 for NH.


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[XCR-700]

The most recent data I could quickly find for gun murder rates was from 2010, and showed that MA was at 1.8 per 100,000 people while it was 0.4 for NH.


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Was that filtered to exclude police shooting and self-defense deaths?

[ApS]

I think you are correct. Even many folks made uncomfortable by seeing the guns recognize this seeming irrationality. Although there is also the idea that, true or not, people who open carry are more dangerous.

Unfortunately, instilling fear, willful misinterpretation, and misinformation has played a daily role in many areas of our lives.

Why should the subject of open carry be any different?

The announcement made today by the U.S. Surgeon General can be expected to result in U.S. Intelligence Agencies' monitoring of Americans' text messages. :(

[gillygirl]

Was that filtered to exclude police shooting and self-defense deaths?

It didn’t specify.


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[Newbiesaukee]

The announcement made today by the U.S. Surgeon General can be expected to result in U.S. Intelligence Agencies' monitoring of Americans' text messages. :(

Totally off topic.

Speaking of misinformation. I have read the complex 22 page advisory released by Dr. Murthy and I see no reasonable basis for your comment. I admit it’s a lot to digest. Have you read the report or just an interpretation of it?


Whatever your source, it is, at best a stretch or an exaggeration. But I would like to see your reference.

[John Mercier]

The announcement made today by the U.S. Surgeon General can be expected to result in U.S. Intelligence Agencies' monitoring of Americans' text messages. :(

The Surgeon General doesn't run the NSA.
And the NSA has always monitored electronic communication.

[John Mercier]

A gun left in the car is as useful as a condom left in a wrapper. It does you no good when you need protection.

I suggest folks who have an issue with open or concealed carry move to the nanny state to our south. They have a big problem with our Constitution and don't like people defending themselves either.We don't have to. We just choose not to service you as a customer.

You have no constitutional right to be on another person's property, and no constitutional right to be a customer based on a non-protected classification.

Even if you are under some false sense that you do...

[XCR-700]

The announcement made today by the U.S. Surgeon General can be expected to result in U.S. Intelligence Agencies' monitoring of Americans' text messages. :(

And what did they say, getting stressed out over forum posts is much more harmful to your health than someone openly carrying a handgun in market basket ;-)

[FlyingScot]

A gun left in the car is as useful as a condom left in a wrapper. It does you no good when you need protection.


Agreed! But a person's chances of needing a condom in a supermarket are higher than the chances of needing a gun

[thinkxingu]

Agreed! But a person's chances of needing a condom in a supermarket are higher than the chances of needing a gunHahahaha!!!
Having spent the whole of my pubescent years at Purity Supreme, I assure you that that's true.

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[MAXUM]

Can somebody please go into the Plymouth MB sporting a hot pink Ruger LCP holstered on a noodle belt? I really want FLL "feel" better about this.

[XCR-700]

Can somebody please go into the Plymouth MB sporting a hot pink Ruger LCP holstered on a noodle belt? I really want FLL "feel" better about this.

Now THATs funny!

[dickiej]

The announcement made today by the U.S. Surgeon General can be expected to result in U.S. Intelligence Agencies' monitoring of Americans' text messages. :(

There is a huge Google plant in The Dalles, OR that supposedly scans every text and email sent and received in the country. Thousands of high speed servers scan millions of texts/emails per second, looking for key words, which sends it to another scan. We all better assume that big brother is watching us all the time.

[Mr. V]

Open carry is pretty uncommon here in Portland and its nearby environs, but a lot, and I do mean a lot, of people legally carry concealed.

Easy to get a CWP.

[randalnh]

Looks like this thread is getting off track, so I will try and steer this discussion back to open carry.

Remember where you are. This is the "Live Free or Die" state and some of us do not take that motto lightly. The "Live Free" part only works if we all respect each others rights and do not try to force your will on others because of your personal, irrational fears. If you think it is just a BS motto, do us all a favor and move to another state.

[MAXUM]

There is a huge Google plant in The Dalles, OR that supposedly scans every text and email sent and received in the country. Thousands of high speed servers scan millions of texts/emails per second, looking for key words, which sends it to another scan. We all better assume that big brother is watching us all the time.

I call somewhat fake news on this claim.

Google does not have access to every text and email sent in and out of this country. They may be doing it on their own mail (gmail) and voice (google talk) platforms and if so shame on them.

Even if they did they would need to have the ability to break the encryption that is used - where it is used. Now for email many providers and companies do not bother encrypting email so it is possible to intercept and read in the clear messages that are sent. Many however do, some go so far as to use multi factor (multiple layers of encryption) and that makes it impossible to read the contents unless the key chain(s) used to encrypt it is available to them which is highly unlikely.

SMS text messages there could be some truth to this as SMS messages are NOT encrypted and thus could be intercepted and read by anyone. That said, anyone who has an Apple device and sends imessages to another Apple user, those messages are sent via encrypted data stream (NOT SMS). They route through the iCloud not your wireless provider. The only thing the wireless provider does is provide the LTE service the data flows over. There is no way Google would have visibility into this. Apple to non apple communications are done via SMS and thus not encrypted.

[The Real BigGuy]

Here is my problem with “open carry”, “concealed carry”, or any carry at all: Most of the people who carry, not all but a significant portion, have gained their skill on a gun range. (Heck, I was pretty good at the range & at the fair’s air gun booth when I was young). They have no experience/training in high stress situations. They have never been in combat. They think they are going to respond like Clint Eastwood to a shooter situation but are more likely to respond like https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_60b83ce2e4b02df1ad873652.

There was a study released a number of years ago (sorry couldn’t find a reference to it now) that said a trained police officer would hit his target less than 20% of the time from 15 ft in a high stress situation. That scares the crap out of me. I don’t want to be one of the innocent bystanders that always seems to get shot.

I’m all for the 2nd Amendment but there needs to be some restraints.


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[TheProfessor]

As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?

Glad someone pulled the trigger on that one. The hollow point is taken.

As a strict Constitutionalist.

All should follow what the members wrote in the US Constitution.

Dated: September 17, 1787

Any firearms should be ball and powder. Whether hand arm or long arm.

Stick to the US Constitution.

[XCR-700]

Here is my problem with “open carry”, “concealed carry”, or any carry at all: Most of the people who carry, not all but a significant portion, have gained their skill on a gun range. (Heck, I was pretty good at the range & at the fair’s air gun booth when I was young). They have no experience/training in high stress situations. They have never been in combat. They think they are going to respond like Clint Eastwood to a shooter situation but are more likely to respond like https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_60b83ce2e4b02df1ad873652.

There was a study released a number of years ago (sorry couldn’t find a reference to it now) that said a trained police officer would hit his target less than 20% of the time from 15 ft in a high stress situation. That scares the crap out of me. I don’t want to be one of the innocent bystanders that always seems to get shot.

I’m all for the 2nd Amendment but there needs to be some restraints.


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Heres my problem with most of the posts on this thread, that are backed up by ZERO data.

So far all we have learned is that open carry at market basket or anywhere else has resulted in near zero problems.

We have ~350 million people in America, how many have been injured as a direct result of open carry???

I see no answers.

More people are suffering the drama of this thread than have likely ever suffered from open carry.

So we are back to peoples preferences. Some people dont like eating in restaurants where families eat and have crying babies. Should we ban then because, infants have week immune systems and their crying is likely spreading germs into the air as their body has little ability to kill the germs off,,,

Everyone has something they dont like.

But with regard to implementing bans, hopefully we dot exercise that option too often and mostly where they is an actual problem. And with open carry, clearly we have not been able to identify any problem except a few people feeling uncomfortable. Is that really sufficient reason to demand action. Really,,,

[Garcia]

Heres my problem with most of the posts on this thread, that are backed up by ZERO data.

So far all we have learned is that open carry at market basket or anywhere else has resulted in near zero problems.

We have ~350 million people in America, how many have been injured as a direct result of open carry???

I see no answers.

More people are suffering the drama of this thread than have likely ever suffered from open carry.

So we are back to peoples preferences. Some people dont like eating in restaurants where families eat and have crying babies. Should we ban then because, infants have week immune systems and their crying is likely spreading germs into the air as their body has little ability to kill the germs off,,,

Everyone has something they dont like.

But with regard to implementing bans, hopefully we dot exercise that option too often and mostly where they is an actual problem. And with open carry, clearly we have not been able to identify any problem except a few people feeling uncomfortable. Is that really sufficient reason to demand action. Really,,,

Here’s an article that looks at the issue, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6203141/.

Where I live and vacation I see no need to carry a gun. There are many who will never agree with me on the issue and I’m comfortable with that.

[mowtorman]

I know a number of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans. One thing they have in common is they carry all day work or play. They are all out here working and contributing after having done their part overseas.

Does anyone want to tell them they can't carry a firearm while having possession of a firearm is perfectly legal?

I didn't get it at first, but some of their points were thought provoking, enough to convince me to keep a firearm at home. I rarely take it out of the house but do on occasion, especially if I don't know what I am getting myself into.

There are so any people carrying weapons in public it is commonplace. Unless someone talks to John Wayne in the cowboy hat or the new young Rambo we will never know their reasons for carrying. Maybe someone could ask them a few questions if so interested next time......what are they gonna do....shoot you while you wait for sliced bologna? If they wanted to shoot you they would just shoot you for no reason. They might be two of the most helpful friendly neighbors you could have, cowboy hat or not, and they might even help you out when that random home invasion character finds your front door open.

So much judgement and speculation with so little information.

[John Mercier]

It really doesn't matter if they agree with you.
Property owners will react based on their own interests.

[XCR-700]

Here’s an article that looks at the issue, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6203141/.

Where I live and vacation I see no need to carry a gun. There are many who will never agree with me on the issue and I’m comfortable with that.

No idea who these people are or what their goal is in creating this report but this is one of the worst reports I have read in a while.

The bouncing between reasonably current (2012) data (1967) and ancient information and firearms related hospitalizations and NF hospitalizations and the then flipping between state and federal data is a disaster.

There are also challenges about IDing LE shootings vs other. And no accounting for legally owned vs illegally owned guns.

In the end a ban that impacts 40 Million people that allegedly saved 337 lives in 2012 seems like a very poor trade off and there may be better ways to reduce any death rate. But then the report did little to convince me that the prohibition actually resulted in reducing any deaths as it failed to ID that the act of carrying actually resulted in the deaths. Likely any reduction was caused by totally removing firearms from these peoples hands, no the open carry itself. It also does little to convince me that many of those were not deaths due to someone committing a crime. I.E. I have little sympathy for criminals killed while committing a crime.

Ultimately any alleged reduction that equals a number of .0000 anything is not of too much interest when it comes at the cost of restricting countless millions of peoples rights.

Of in other words, this was not very helpful,,,

[XCR-700]

So much judgement and speculation with so little information.

So well said!

Might I also add; so much fear and drama over something that has yet to result in any problem.

So far as we have been able to determine, no one in Market Basket has suffered any harm from open carry. Given all the customers that go through their doors, it seems to be even safer than walking, as occasion someone walking will slip and fall and suffer and actual injury.

So again there we have it, walking is more risky to your actual health than open carry.

Are we done yet?

Probably not much chance,,,

[SAB1]

Here is my problem with “open carry”, “concealed carry”, or any carry at all: Most of the people who carry, not all but a significant portion, have gained their skill on a gun range. (Heck, I was pretty good at the range & at the fair’s air gun booth when I was young). They have no experience/training in high stress situations. They have never been in combat. They think they are going to respond like Clint Eastwood to a shooter situation but are more likely to respond like https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_60b83ce2e4b02df1ad873652.

There was a study released a number of years ago (sorry couldn’t find a reference to it now) that said a trained police officer would hit his target less than 20% of the time from 15 ft in a high stress situation. That scares the crap out of me. I don’t want to be one of the innocent bystanders that always seems to get shot.

I’m all for the 2nd Amendment but there needs to be some restraints.


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This is actually true and I agree with you. Most knuckleheads out there really don’t know how to shoot and /or invest in the time to do so. Under pressure lots of different things enter the equation.

I’m sure I’ll take heat for it but anyone carrying should pass a back ground test and everyone should qualify on a range to EDC.

[John Mercier]

Business doesn't really focus on someone being shot.
They focus on the psychological effect that it may have on customers (revenue) of employees (expenses).

Every policy, or lack there of, changes those parameters in some way.

For private landowners, not involved in commerce, the parameters are different.

A landowner down the trail from allows all non-motorized access and snowmobiles, but no hunting or target shooting. Signs are posted to specifically restrict wheeled-OHRV *though by law they are not required* and any unauthorized firearms. Since they will not authorize a firearm for hunting or shooting, only law enforcement... the only other time that may have a firearm interacting with those signs would be a trail user carrying - which might happen should someone on foot or horseback/etc be concerned with being confronted with loose dogs from the neighborhood.

Of course, them discovering that trail users are carrying could lead to them closing the trail and access. No one really knows, since no incident has occurred.

[mhtranger]

One thing people don’t realize is that most of us that carry (open or concealed) are not trying to be hero’s. I carry for my families safety, I’m not going to try and be a hero and save the day but know I will do what it take to protect myself and my family. Most likely will be to get out of harms way or hunker down out of site.

As for stores with signs, that is their right to not allow guns in their stores. If concealed correctly you would never be the wiser that one was there.

Training is a must and like others have said not just at the range where most don’t let you draw from a holster. There are many places that have training and would recommend you take at least one course.

It is my right to carry here in NH and will continue to do so. Call it what you will but if something did go wrong……….🤷🏻*♂️

[thinkxingu]

One thing people don’t realize is that most of us that carry (open or concealed) are not trying to be hero’s. I carry for my families safety, I’m not going to try and be a hero and save the day but know I will do what it take to protect myself and my family. Most likely will be to get out of harms way or hunker down out of site.

As for stores with signs, that is their right to not allow guns in their stores. If concealed correctly you would never be the wiser that one was there.

Training is a must and like others have said not just at the range where most don’t let you draw from a holster. There are many places that have training and would recommend you take at least one course.

It is my right to carry here in NH and will continue to do so. Call it what you will but if something did go wrong……….[emoji1744]*[emoji3603]The thread was started not to condemn carrying so much as open carrying. I've not heard much said—other than personal preference—about concealed carry (probably because of your and other's point that most would never notice).

As I've been reading this thread these last days, I've thought a lot about the number of circumstances in my and my extended family's and friends' lives that would have benefitted from having a weapon, and with all those millions/billions/trillions of moments, there are zero. We live, of course, in among the safest of areas in the world, however, so perhaps I might think differently were I to live elsewhere, but I just don't see the need to carry and definitely don't see the need to be showy about carrying.

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[XCR-700]

The thread was started not to condemn carrying so much as open carrying. I've not heard much said—other than personal preference—about concealed carry (probably because of your and other's point that most would never notice).

As I've been reading this thread these last days, I've thought a lot about the number of circumstances in my and my extended family's and friends' lives that would have benefitted from having a weapon, and with all those millions/billions/trillions of moments, there are zero. We live, of course, in among the safest of areas in the world, however, so perhaps I might think differently were I to live elsewhere, but I just don't see the need to carry and definitely don't see the need to be showy about carrying.

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Actually the OP has advocated several time for prohibition on weapons several times and based on how that advocacy occurred it appeared to be for such restrictions to be in place virtually anywhere he shops. I did not see any support for concealed carry by the OP in the sighs he proposed, if anything the term weapons could be inferred to mean knives, pepper spray, potentially anything that could conceived as a weapon.

I specifically proposed an option to open carry (asking customers to conceal their firearms) which should be reasonable to all, but no one seems interested in that either.

It appears to be a no solution or compromise discussion.

[DEJ]

I hear ya about the zero times in your life you would have benefited from having a firearm, same with me. However look at it this way, the one time you or someone else MIGHT need it you might be glad you had it. Two sides to every story. I carry, not always and hope I never need it.
Glad to read in another thread you are introducing your Son to firearms and I am sure you will get him and yourself all the appropriate training.

[~Haze~]

This thread will not end well.

For who?


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[thinkxingu]

Actually the OP has advocated several time for prohibition on weapons several times and based on how that advocacy occurred it appeared to be for such restrictions to be in place virtually anywhere he shops. I did not see any support for concealed carry by the OP in the sighs he proposed, if anything the term weapons could be inferred to mean knives, pepper spray, potentially anything that could conceived as a weapon.

I specifically proposed an option to open carry (asking customers to conceal their firearms) which should be reasonable to all, but no one seems interested in that either.

It appears to be a no solution or compromise discussion.From the OP:

"Like, there is a big difference between concealed carry, and open carry in a NH Market Basket with numerous customers throughout the store."

There's definitely been a discussion of "why is a gun needed in the first place," but I've seen the thread as more of an OC vs. CC discussion.

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[thinkxingu]

I hear ya about the zero times in your life you would have benefited from having a firearm, same with me. However look at it this way, the one time you or someone else MIGHT need it you might be glad you had it. Two sides to every story. I carry, not always and hope I never need it.

Glad to read in another thread you are introducing your Son to firearms and I am sure you will get him and yourself all the appropriate training.Under that same rationale, though, people can justify carrying ladders. I mean, what if an earthquake hit and we had to climb out of Market Basket? That's happened exactly the same number of times everyone in my whole entire family ever needed a weapon...

Like you added, however, I do think it's important to be knowledgeable about weapons and, honestly, who knows what the future entails. I will admit that I feel a tad bit better about having weapons back in the house (I'd sold all my old ones when the kids came along) as there were some crazy things happening during the Great Recession and afterward. But then I remember that by ammo is stored separately from my guns for the kids' safety...

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[~Haze~]

You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...

That’s not accurate.

There are a number of reasonable people who are completely comfortable with guns in reasonable moderation but some of the arbitrary lines drawn by the organizations, institutions and powers that be might need some readjusting based on logic rather than precedent.

Many of us have guns and do carry without our entire existence, identity, and brain to be consumed by the second amendment.
Granted many gun owners do tend to be “1 issue voters” but not all of us.

Ones comment on “compensating for something”. I ask you to grow up.

Because no one would ever think that way - seriously or in jest.

Ha- its the little one! See you this summer, I hope D!!

[emoji52]


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[DEJ]

Under that same rationale, though, people can justify carrying ladders. I mean, what if an earthquake hit and we had to climb out of Market Basket? That's happened exactly the same number of times everyone in my whole entire family ever needed a weapon...

Like you added, however, I do think it's important to be knowledgeable about weapons and, honestly, who knows what the future entails. I will admit that I feel a tad bit better about having weapons back in the house (I'd sold all my old ones when the kids came along) as there were some crazy things happening during the Great Recession and afterward. But then I remember that by ammo is stored separately from my guns for the kids' safety...

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The ladder statement is simply silly, you are better than this. Glad you are introducing FIREARMS back into your household.

[thinkxingu]

The ladder statement is simply silly, you are better than this. Glad you are introducing FIREARMS back into your household.It's not, really, if you're open to what the premise is. In my whole lifetime, in all of my family members' and friends' lifetimes, a carried ladder would have been as beneficial as a gun. I'll go one step further and point out that a huge portion of firearm deaths are accidental.

So, in point of fact, the ladder would be as useful AND safer.

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[DEJ]

It's not, really, if you're open to what the premise is. In my whole lifetime, in all of my family members' and friends' lifetimes, a carried ladder would have been as beneficial as a gun. I'll go one step further and point out that a huge portion of firearm deaths are accidental.

So, in point of fact, the ladder would be as useful AND safer.

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You win, congratulations I should have known better.:rolleye2:

[thinkxingu]

You win, congratulations I should have known better.:rolleye2:Kisses.
I get your point, I do, but at some level statistics matter more than emotion, and that's the world I exist in.

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[DEJ]

Kisses.
I get your point, I do, but at some level statistics matter more than emotion, and that's the world I exist in.

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No emotion here, I pray you are never in a situation where you need it and not have it. Out.

[thinkxingu]

No emotion here, I pray you are never in a situation where you need it and not have it. Out.And I pray you are never in a situation where you need a ladder and do not.

Ok, ok—I'll accept the blame for being snarky this time, but, ultimately, it's absolutely part of my thought process (the statistics thing, not the needing-a-ladder one).

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[Newbiesaukee]

This thread will not end well.


Actually, not too badly and mostly pretty well. If we end it soon.

[baygo]

Some people may find concern in the company of a stranger with open carry in a store and some people may find concern that the black man in front of them in line is about to hold up the store. What do they have in common?

[Newbiesaukee]

Some people may find concern in the company of a stranger with open carry in a store and some people may find concern that the black man in front of them in line is about to hold up the store. What do they have in common?

Best comment so far.

[John Mercier]

Except skin color is a protected class.
If I lose customers or employees because someone with a skin color they don't like is shopping in my store... not really much I can do about that.

But for a non-restricted class... that becomes a different story.
We currently can't afford to lose any employees, and can lose a certain percentage of customers and still have too many.

[FlyingScot]

Some people may find concern in the company of a stranger with open carry in a store and some people may find concern that the black man in front of them in line is about to hold up the store. What do they have in common?

You seem to equate going into a store while Black with going into a store while carrying a gun openly. Even if we overlook the racial overtones, one of these people is making a choice/statement, the other is just going to the store

[baygo]

You seem to equate going into a store while Black with going into a store while carrying a gun openly. Even if we overlook the racial overtones, one of these people is making a choice/statement, the other is just going to the store

No racial overtones involved. My statement/question brings to light the perceived unjust fears in both scenarios. And perhaps it sheads light on hypocrisy.

[John Mercier]

The unjust fears are only a matter of the revenue equation to the person(s) that make the policy decisions.

I can not restrict someone for their skin tone regardless of any negative effect it may have on my customer base... it is a protected class.

While you may not be happy with the unjust fear of the customers, someone carrying a firearm is not a protected class. It is a choice that they are making.
So the policy is enacted by the business owner to protect their revenue, as any lost customer base due to the act is harm to the business owner.
It doesn't matter what the ''emotional'' equation is.

If customer avoided a business because too many Mercedes were parked out front, and the owner felt that was a detriment to their revenue equation, they could enact policy that no Mercedes were to be on their property.

The Mercedes owner may not like it, but they could either choose not to bring the Mercedes, or to shop another business. Mercedes owners are not a protected class.

[XCR-700]

The unjust fears are only a matter of the revenue equation to the person(s) that make the policy decisions.

I can not restrict someone for their skin tone regardless of any negative effect it may have on my customer base... it is a protected class.

While you may not be happy with the unjust fear of the customers, someone carrying a firearm is not a protected class. It is a choice that they are making.
So the policy is enacted by the business owner to protect their revenue, as any lost customer base due to the act is harm to the business owner.
It doesn't matter what the ''emotional'' equation is.

If customer avoided a business because too many Mercedes were parked out front, and the owner felt that was a detriment to their revenue equation, they could enact policy that no Mercedes were to be on their property.

The Mercedes owner may not like it, but they could either choose not to bring the Mercedes, or to shop another business. Mercedes owners are not a protected class.

So in the end your only goal is to maximize profit? With the singular exception of wishing not to violate the letter of law, you have no other considerations for the operation of your business or how you treat the world?

Its a classic perspective, and I give you credit for being honest. Too often people say one thing and do another. I think its always better to know who you are dealing with. So I do appreciate your truth to your perspective and owning it.

That said, clearly you have not read or didnt buy into Lutz Laws of Business. Might be worth a look, the one about "the Primary Purpose of Business Is Not to Make Money" is of particular interest and especially when considered in todays time period and with an eye for bigger picture.

I suppose this is just another example of the rift that divides America.

It interesting to also note that some people have no concern that the law protects people of color (and other groups), they simply treat these people like anyone else regardless of the impact to the business, as they believe its just the right thing to do, not because the law requires it. The same holds true of open carry, or allowing children in your place of business, or people with outlandish clothing. Treat everyone the same because its just the right thing to do, not because you might violate a law by treating them differently.

Positive change takes time, and so it will be with acceptance that citizens are again embracing the notion of protecting themselves, so it will take time to become normalized.

Hopefully we will be able to have non-violent engagements and discussion about this, unlike so many other matters that become so hostile and personal and unproductive.

In the end the notion of imposing personal preference with restrictions is a longstanding method of controlling people, so it makes sense thats the first thing people propose. Looking back to all the things we have exiled, beaten, stoned and killed each other over (such as; how you dress, what you believe, how you talk ETC Etc etc) we should not be surprised at the response to open carry, its just disappointing that in 2021 we cant do better to accept something that in and of itself caused no harm or risk to anyone (open carry in Market Basket).

We must remember that as a country we are the still children of pilgrims and puritans who dictated almost every facet of life, so like all progress in the past, this too will take time to evolve.

[John Mercier]

Since no two people are alike... treating everyone the same makes no sense.

I have customers that set an appointment, I have customers that simply walk in and demand service.

I have customers concerned with the quality and options of a product, and customers just looking for the thing that can be attained the faster or the cheapest.

I have customers that just left a Big Box with off the shelve pricing, looking for a special order quote to match that product, and want is at a discount. When I tell them that it can not be matched... they will not take my word for it and demand a computerized quote - that takes time for a sale that will never happen. Time that cannot be allocated to another customer waiting for something that they will purchase.

I have customers that demand to know what their contractor paid for product, because they do not trust the contractor they hired.

Believe me, if people spent just a few more minutes thinking about those other customers... then it would be easier to treat everyone the same.

[Crusty]

To sum up the open carry vs concealed carry: Ignorance is bliss. As for people with guns being around, criminals normally avoid anyplace where they know or believe people are armed. I'm quite willing to enjoy the protective zone.

As for "gun free" zones, I avoid them whenever possible. In my opinion, anyone or any entity that declares a "gun free" zone has the absolute responsibility to enforce it. Any failure of enforcement should leave them criminally and civilly liable without limit.

[fatlazyless]

In June 2008 Justice Antonin Scalia made a majority decision OPINION in a gun control case involving Washington DC and a police officer trying to get a concealed acrry permit in the District........ Judge Scalia said "there are some buildings like public buildings and schools that are too sensitive for the second amendment and guns are banned from these buildings.

For a supermarket like Market Basket, it's up to the store owner if they think open carry is too sensitive for their store because it scares and intimidates some of the other shoppers which is probably WHY all these four different men I saw choose to wear a gun inside the store ..... to be INTIMIDATING or to be SHOWY. They all could have gone "concealed carry" but they want to be intimidating and showy to others so they go "open carry."

Open carry is intimidating to many and does not belong inside this Market Basket store is what Justice Antonin Scalia would say, if he were still alive and here on this forum!

www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us ........ If you think there's NO Place for open carry inside the Plymouth NH, Market Basket then go ahead and MAKE MY DAY ........ tell the Market Basket WHAT YOU THINK ......... and thank-YOU very much!

[XCR-700]

Since no two people are alike... treating everyone the same makes no sense.

I have customers that set an appointment, I have customers that simply walk in and demand service.

I have customers concerned with the quality and options of a product, and customers just looking for the thing that can be attained the faster or the cheapest.

I have customers that just left a Big Box with off the shelve pricing, looking for a special order quote to match that product, and want is at a discount. When I tell them that it can not be matched... they will not take my word for it and demand a computerized quote - that takes time for a sale that will never happen. Time that cannot be allocated to another customer waiting for something that they will purchase.

I have customers that demand to know what their contractor paid for product, because they do not trust the contractor they hired.

Believe me, if people spent just a few more minutes thinking about those other customers... then it would be easier to treat everyone the same.

Again an interesting perspective.

I don't know what your business is, and I guess it really doesn't matter, but its clear you are passionate about making your business successful, and ultimately succeed or fail, you are the one who must live with the outcome of your decisions.

If you succeed and in any part because you banned Mercedes from parking at your business because some of your customers demanded it, and you can live with the compromise (and maybe even agree with it) all I can say is congratulations.

If you succeed in spite of your not bowing down to some customers unreasonable demands I applaud you.

Yours is but one business and one perspective and one example. Thankfully there are many others and many who would not ban Mercedes parking on their lot, or people of color (even before it was the law) or imposing other seeming irrational restrictions. But in truth yours is the more common practice, thats why positive change takes so long. Thankfully there are people with perspectives bigger than the bottom line profit of any given day and they make more balanced decisions. And thats where I will continue to take my business, and I will attempt to continue to avoid the elitist people and businesses among us who would impose arbitrary restrictions.

ATB

[XCR-700]

Open carry is intimidating to many and does not belong inside this Market Basket store is what Justice Antonin Scalia would say, if he were still alive and here on this forum!

Clearly you know NOTHING about Justice Scalia or his work or perspectives, your statement is absolutely wrong.

He could already have said what you propose many times over and he carefully did not. So you should not attribute some totally different perspective to a dead man than he had the opportunity to do so himself and chose not to.

And with that statement this thread has now lost any credibility it may have had in creating a dialog about the sensibility of open carry vs concealed carry.

ATB

[fatlazyless]

www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us ....... looks like you left out my last sentence .....hey there Buddy .....the one with the link to the store management where you can tell them that OPEN CARRY does not belong inside this sensitive supermarket building ....... Market Basket-Plymouth NH .... NO OPEN CARRY ALLOWED!

[John Mercier]

Again an interesting perspective.

I don't know what your business is, and I guess it really doesn't matter, but its clear you are passionate about making your business successful, and ultimately succeed or fail, you are the one who must live with the outcome of your decisions.

If you succeed and in any part because you banned Mercedes from parking at your business because some of your customers demanded it, and you can live with the compromise (and maybe even agree with it) all I can say is congratulations.

If you succeed in spite of your not bowing down to some customers unreasonable demands I applaud you.

Yours is but one business and one perspective and one example. Thankfully there are many others and many who would not ban Mercedes parking on their lot, or people of color (even before it was the law) or imposing other seeming irrational restrictions. But in truth yours is the more common practice, thats why positive change takes so long. Thankfully there are people with perspectives bigger than the bottom line profit of any given day and they make more balanced decisions. And thats where I will continue to take my business, and I will attempt to continue to avoid the elitist people and businesses among us who would impose arbitrary restrictions.

ATBThe point of those policies would be to make you go to another business. If you come to our business, and we get you as a customer, but lose other customers... no gain. If we lose employees... a definite loss.

So when I go to my dentist, I make an appointment... the door states to wear a mask, and sanitize my hands before a temp check. I do as directed.
When I go to the dealer for service on my vehicle, I make an appointment, the door ''heavily suggests'' that I wear a mask, so I put the mask on and after waiting patiently for the service desk manager to take my keys, I go outside and remove my mask. When the vehicle is ready, mask goes back on... I make the payment... and when I get back outside I take the mask off.

Business makes a request... regardless of my personal thoughts... I do as requested, or I find someplace else to shop.

If I have to pay a higher price or get a lesser degree of service, that would be the trade off for not being willing to do as the business requests.

[WinnisquamZ]

The point of those policies would be to make you go to another business. If you come to our business, and we get you as a customer, but lose other customers... no gain. If we lose employees... a definite loss.

So when I go to my dentist, I make an appointment... the door states to wear a mask, and sanitize my hands before a temp check. I do as directed.

When I go to the dealer for service on my vehicle, I make an appointment, the door ''heavily suggests'' that I wear a mask, so I put the mask on and after waiting patiently for the service desk manager to take my keys, I go outside and remove my mask. When the vehicle is ready, mask goes back on... I make the payment... and when I get back outside I take the mask off.

Business makes a request... regardless of my personal thoughts... I do as requested, or I find someplace else to shop.

If I have to pay a higher price or get a lesser degree of service, that would be the trade off for not being willing to do as the business requests.

Same mask experience this week. Needed new eyeglasses and went to Laconia Eye and the sign on door reads “masks are required”. Drove to another store and made my purchase. Personal chose


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[Newbiesaukee]

Although I agree that most decisions are absolutely the right of individuals to make for themselves. And I am not criticizing the rights of people to make those decisions.

Yet, it seems a sad state of affairs when some decisions, such as those regarding personal medical care, seem to be increasingly driven by politics rather than competence.

[SAMIAM]

www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us ....... looks like you left out my last sentence .....hey there Buddy .....the one with the link to the store management where you can tell them that OPEN CARRY does not belong inside this sensitive supermarket building ....... Market Basket-Plymouth NH .... NO OPEN CARRY ALLOWED!

Since you posted contact info for Market Basket,I guess open carry advocates can feel free to contact them encouraging open carry because it makes people feel safer and is legal in NH.
Personally,I'm against it but just sayin'

[fatlazyless]

So ....... did you go to the optician at the nearby Gilford Walmart where they do not allow open carry of a hand gun inside their store because it tends to scare and intimidate the other customers?

www.optix-now.com/ecp/gilford/walmart-vision-center-840

THANK-YOU to each and every WALMART, about 4500-stores, in the U.S. in all 50-states that all have this NO OPEN CARRY policy since 2019.

If you were seated in the optician getting measured for new eyeglasses, and another patient/customer walked in and sat down who was wearing a hand gun, open carry, how would that make you feel? For me I would get up and leave, asap-pdq, absolutely positively, I would exit the optician office, immediately!

[fatlazyless]

Since you posted contact info for Market Basket,I guess open carry advocates can feel free to contact them encouraging open carry because it makes people feel safer and is legal in NH.
Personally,I'm against it but just sayin'

Yes, people can contact Market Basket and send a message on what they think with regard to shopping at Market Basket .....pro-open carry, against open carry, or whatever they wish to write on any M.B. concern or issue.

Here's the link again ..... www.shopmarketbasket.com/about-us/contact-us

Me ...... I have not been inside the nearby Plymouth Hannaford supermarket in about a year and now just use M.B. and Walmart which also has many non-food items. Is good to know that all Walmarts have a "no open carry" policy since 2019. Would like to see the Plymouth Market Basket go "No Open Carry" as well, similar to the nearby Walmart as a way to discourage these lone, individual men from using the store as a place to go shopping while showing off their hand gun.

[mhtranger]

Would like to see the Plymouth Market Basket go "No Open Carry" as well, similar to the nearby Walmart as a way to discourage these lone, individual men from using the store as a place to go shopping while showing off their hand gun.

But what about those of us that carry concealed? You would never know how many scary handguns are around you in your area.

[fatlazyless]

Would like to see the Plymouth Market Basket go "No Open Carry" as well, similar to the nearby Walmart as a way to discourage these lone, individual men from using the store as a place to go shopping while showing off their hand gun.

But what about those of us that carry concealed? You would never know how many scary handguns are around you in your area.

I have no problem with concealed carry. If you want to carry a gun, just keep it concealed, and don't go parading around the local supermarket as a way to show off your gun, open carry, to be intimidating or showy, or something.

As already mentioned, in 2008 the late Justice Antonin Scalia said "there are some buildings, government buildings and schools that are too sensitive for open carry."

In my opinion the local supermarket is also a building that is too sensitive for open carry with a hand gun because there are many different people, different ages inside doing their food shopping who do NOT want to share the store space with some unknown man, dressed casually, who has a gun on his hip in a holster.

[XCR-700]

I have no problem with concealed carry. If you want to carry a gun, just keep it concealed, and don't go parading around the local supermarket as a way to show off your gun, open carry, to be intimidating or showy, or something.


I'm glad to see a softening from your previously elevated position of no weapons as opposed to no open carry. Re: "In a post up above, someone says the Mount Washington cruise ship has a 'no weapons' sign posted at its entry way, so if it is good for the Mount then it is probably a good thing for Market Basket to do, as well. "

Clearly this is some progress.

Hard to believe it took 2 pages of posts to facilitate a change like this, but its a big one one.

Like I said before, it will take time to normalize this and I think we are seeing the first signs (I hope,,,)

ATB

[LikeLakes]

I feel safe shopping anywhere, anytime, in my home state of NH.

I feel safe if there is no open carry, like in Wal-mart.
I feel safe if there is open carry, like this now famous Market Basket.

I trust and respect my fellow NH citizens, those that don't choose to own guns, those that choose to concealed carry, those that choose to open carry.

I am honestly enjoying this thread, it's a good discussion.

[fatlazyless]

Open carry is okay out in the woods, for hunting or something. On the Alaska tv shows you see people with open carry guns who are concerned about bears, wolves, and maybe other people.

Here is NH, concealed carry means you do not see it, and don't much even think about it. With open carry in the supermarket, the wearer is probably showing it off, wants to be intimidating, or making some political statement. It makes no sense to be wearing a gun, open carry, in the Plymouth NH, Market Basket.

The comment about NOT wanting to go shopping in a store with macho-men wearing guns has a strong message, and with Walmart's 4500-stores all going no open carry in 2019 this no open carry rule is becoming very common.

If you carry concealed, you know its there, and no one else knows except yourself. With open carry everyone knows because they can see the gun and this changes the psychological dynamics of the situation. People think to themself ....... holy crap .....there's a guy here wearing a gun.

Question to patrons on The Dive: If someone waded from their boat to onboard The Dive, sat down and ordered an eleven dollar-adult beverage, while wearing an open carry hand gun at the time ....... how would this be accepted by the other patrons? Like, what's with the gun, buddy?

[LikeLakes]

I had been thinking, all this forum needs to be complete is a thread about heading to The Dive while going 70 mph across the lake with open carry. Just combine every contentious issue into one. :)

[MAXUM]

I have no problem with concealed carry. If you want to carry a gun, just keep it concealed, and don't go parading around the local supermarket as a way to show off your gun, open carry, to be intimidating or showy, or something.



Who says they who OC are being "showy" or trying to be "intimidating"? Just because in the world of FLL that is they way you interpret this, and because for some reason it "scares" you then that must be the way EVERYONE feels. Were any of these observed individuals doing anything to draw attention to the fact they were wearing a holstered pistol or simply going about their business just as you were? Your fear while real is based on a visual and nothing more. Even you claim you'd be fine with concealed carry, but what's the difference? AH you can see it, but realistically how does that change the situation? It doesn't, armed is armed open or concealed.

A great illustration is what if these individuals were off duty cops? When in uniform open carrying that is OK by you, but wearing civilian attire that is scary. Same person, same type of firearm, slight change in personal appearance makes you mental. Why?

I would bet that the majority of those that choose to OC are likely either LEO or former LEOs. Many are much more aware of crime and the presence of it even in the smallest of towns. A perspective that you FLL may not be aware of as you blissfully go through life in search of the next free cup of coffee.

[Mr. V]

A great illustration is what if these individuals were off duty cops? When in uniform open carrying that is OK by you, but wearing civilian attire that is scary. Same person, same type of firearm, slight change in personal appearance makes you mental. Why?.

Because we all KNOW why cops carry a gun: we don't know why a civilian is strapped.

It is context-related.

Sort of like if you're in a doctor's office and a nurse approaches you with a hypodermic to give you a prescribed shot you aren't concerned, but if you're in a restroom and a stranger approaches you with a hypodermic needle in hand you'll feel anxiety.

[John Mercier]

I had been thinking, all this forum needs to be complete is a thread about heading to The Dive while going 70 mph across the lake with open carry. Just combine every contentious issue into one. :)
They are in a way... it all people that are trying to be ''flashy''.

If the Dive were just another location based bar... just one more of the mix with very localized issue... because it is a mobile bar, it creates a large area of effect.

Speeding across the lake is really someone that wants to show what their boat can do. Dave Street used to do this by moving his offshore racing boat to his house on the lake.
Open carry, which used to be by people that may not want the bother of the permit process, really is to let others know that you are armed. Concealed carry, done properly, is hardly ever noticed. Customer and clerks are not going to react to you, because they don't have any idea.

Sometimes things are done because someone doesn't know that they shouldn't, but that usually results in a short exchange without any drama.
Lately, some have felt that the drama will result in a positive outcome for them... it never does.

[SAB1]

I don’t think your assumption on off duty LEO’s open carrying is correct. As I mentioned above any cop I know, my son included always conceals off duty. Gun law debates and discussions never really go anywhere. Depending on what side you’re on heels are dug in pretty deep. Overall I suspect the native folks here probably are much more to open to guns. People from others states like MA not so much. Having lived and hunted in MA since I was 15 it always amazed me how many people called the cops when we seen entering the woods with guns.

[mhtranger]

Question to patrons on The Dive: If someone waded from their boat to onboard The Dive, sat down and ordered an eleven dollar-adult beverage, while wearing an open carry hand gun at the time ....... how would this be accepted by the other patrons? Like, what's with the gun, buddy?

Well my guess is they would think he was a little bit off. But now you are just reaching!!

[John Mercier]

I don’t think your assumption on off duty LEO’s open carrying is correct. As I mentioned above any cop I know, my son included always conceals off duty. Gun law debates and discussions never really go anywhere. Depending on what side you’re on heels are dug in pretty deep. Overall I suspect the native folks here probably are much more to open to guns. People from others states like MA not so much. Having lived and hunted in MA since I was 15 it always amazed me how many people called the cops when we seen entering the woods with guns.
I'm native. I breaks down into civilized behavior.
And it isn't the only issue that incites passion, I get smokers that both get upset that they can't smoke inside, and that they have to place the butts in a specialized disposal container that we have at both customer entrances.

I have had customers smoking in the store told to ''put it out'' that drop it on the floor and step on it. Customer that throw the butts in the flower planters, or the parking lot on the ground, etc. None of it is civilized behavior. So it is not a matter of where someone was born or may currently reside.
Nor is it just a matter of firearms.

[MAXUM]

Open carry, which used to be by people that may not want the bother of the permit process, really is to let others know that you are armed. Concealed carry, done properly, is hardly ever noticed. Customer and clerks are not going to react to you, because they don't have any idea.



Not necessarily.

I'm sure there are those that want to carry open and as such want everyone to know. I don't understand this way of thinking and it really begs the question if that is your only reasoning for doing so what's the point? Whatever it is IMHO it's silly. Then again there are plenty who choose to make silly public statements and they have the right to.

I'm sure there is a percentage of gun owners that simply don't want to go through the permitting process because it is a hassle. I happen to be one of them. At one point I looked into getting a CCW and bagged that idea as I simply had no real desire to carry anyways but thought it would be nice to have should I want to travel to a state where having one doubles as a permit to possess. NH does not have a requirement for a CCW anymore to carry concealed. Therefore at least in this state to OC is a choice.

Getting a CCW (concealed carry) permit is not a guarantee, you can't just get one depending on where you are. You will often time hear the language "may issue" versus "shall issue". The distinction is really important to note. "Shall issue" means simply a CCW must be issued to a requestor provided they meet the requirements. "May issue" leaves the issuance at the desecration of the issuing authority, typically the local police chief. There are places where the police chief will not issue period even though they could under the letter of the law. Since it is by their desecration, if they so choose to issue none that is their prerogative to do so even if the requesting person is a saint and has a valid reason for asking for one. In those cases OC is the only option. MA is a great example of this. It is a "May issue" state and some municipalities will not issue permits to carry concealed. Of course they will never put that in writing, instead just deny all requests without reason.

Again I don't defend OC, at least not in public urban places or when out and about conducting everyday business. I don't mind it and it doesn't bother me I just feel it is unnecessary to do so.

[John Mercier]

Because we no longer have a permitting process for concealed carry in NH... no one has to go through the hassle. They can just conceal the firearm and no one would know the better.

They may be ignorant to the fact that they can legally conceal carry, but my guess is that would be more of a rarity rather than majority. And those few would never make a drama out of it. They would just conceal the next time.

[SAB1]

Was not aware that some towns don’t issue or make it hard to get CC permit in NH. I always had a non resident one that piggy backed on my MA permit. I moved here permanently last year. Applied and received CC permit in a few days.

[MAXUM]

Was not aware that some towns don’t issue or make it hard to get CC permit in NH. I always had a non resident one that piggy backed on my MA permit. I moved here permanently last year. Applied and received CC permit in a few days.

NH has no requirement for a CCW to carry concealed. I'm not even sure if they issue them anymore. If so the prior law was written such that NH was a "shall issue" not "may issue" state, meaning if you met the requirements they had to give you a permit. Not like the nonsense down in MA where it is a "may issue" state and as such there are places where they simply will not issue them and not for any other reason than they don't want to.

[thinkxingu]

NH has no requirement for a CCW to carry concealed. I'm not even sure if they issue them anymore. If so the prior law was written such that NH was a "shall issue" not "may issue" state, meaning if you met the requirements they had to give you a permit. Not like the nonsense down in MA where it is a "may issue" state and as such there are places where they simply will not issue them and not for any other reason than they don't want to.NH is a "shall issue" state—getting a concealed carry permit is purely a technicality. I completed my app last week as part of applying to a fish & game club—they use the permit process as a secondary background check.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[John Mercier]

''Hard'' was a relative term.
It involved paperwork and a fee.

So people would just option to open carry...

[SAB1]

It’s reciprocal with a few other states.

[ApS]

Based on all this discourse I decided to go shopping at the Plymouth Market Basket today. I thought it would be interesting to see all the low life’s that think they need a gun , primarily a exposed gun to feel totally free. I was terribly disappointed and didn't see a single NRA card carrier in the crowd that felt he or she had to walk around with a exposed weapon to prove he they were more American then the Fox News group. I did see more tattoos then is normal but sadly no guns. Perhaps this has been overdone by our friend FLL
Back here in May of 2011, FLL told the forum to chase Black Bears off your property--using a broom. :eek2:

[XCR-700]

I’v been thinking about this whole matter and reflecting on my own thoughts/concerns about seeing people practicing open carry, and I must say upon reflection that I think open carry might actually be better that concealed carry in some/many situations.

The first question I considered is why exactly is it a bad thing to be showy with guns? We accept it from many people all the time. For example; in their very non-classic/traditional clothing, in their radical blue and pink and orange hair colors, in their sometimes shocking all over body tattoos, in their extreme and sometime repulsive piercings, ETC Etc etc. And we eventually grow to accept them all as an expression of their personality. We may not like it, but we tolerate it because we realize we are not harmed by it.

Next why is it a bad thing to want to intimidate others? Again, many do it all the time with their openly aggressive behavior including; loud and offensive language and comments made in public, their physically imposing behavior often invading ones personal space, in their sometimes disturbing dress, in their swagger intended to be intimidating. Some of this I would attribute to simple bad behavior that I seriously dislike, but we still accept it. If however the intent to intimidate works on others who are behaving badly shouldn’t they just cancel each other out. So for example if FLL was thinking he should make a public spectacle and tell someone off for openly carrying, but then decides this is not the best option because he is intimidated, isn’t that a win for everyone??? And if the target audience is in fact someone who is thinking they might do something grossly inappropriate or illegal, and seeing someone openly carrying a gun stops them, then shouldn’t we actually be thanking these people for having the courage to make such a public statement that honest citizens will not allow themselves to be assaulted or robbed! Yup makes sense to me!

And finally (for me) forget about seeing someone with a 9mm semi-auto pocket pistol on their belt, in todays world that’s as about as intimidating as seeing someone 30 years ago with a knife on their belt in a case, but if “I” saw someone with a western gun belt and a substantial revolver sashaying into Market Basket I would likely think that’s kinda odd and maybe be a bit concerning, but then if I stopped for a moment I would realize they are doing no harm to me. And maybe, just maybe (and if I thought it was a good looking gun-belt and pistol like a nickel plated Colt with engraving and beautiful fire-blue hardware and classy grips) and hopefully I would be reasonable enough to go up to that person and complement them on their equipment. Well Hopefully,,,

The only time I can see being concerned about firearms in public other than seeing them actually being used in a crime (and I will be the first say I would be concerned and again hopefully I would speak up and voice that concern) is if I saw someone handling a gun in a very populated public place. Its one thing to have a gun safely holstered and completely another to be handling it. I think it would be unacceptable to be changing mags, racking a slide, rotating a cylinder, virtually anything that involves handling a gun in a populated place. And thats all assuming it was still always pointed in a very safe direction. It would be totally unacceptable to be handling a gun and have it pointing at anyone.

Other than that, I really think this is all nonsense and drama for drama sake.
You are all entitled to your opinions, thats mine. Embrace it or loathe it, I’m just being honest, and again this is from someone who never carrys openly and probably never will.

ATB

[Descant]

...They have no experience/training in high stress situations. They have never been in combat. They think they are going to respond like Clint Eastwood to a shooter situation but are more likely..
It appears you think ALL open carry folks are totally inexperienced. More likely to me is that they are devoted to their sport and take any number of training programs offered by manufacturers, sporting clubs etc all around the state and nation. How can you possibly reach the conclusion that none have been in combat or had military training?

Aficionados in most sports practice, take lessons, travel to other venues to improve their skills. Those who participate in shooting sports do the same thing. You insult them by blindly assuming otherwise.

[KayakinKid]

Well, this has certainly been an interesting thread. And to think that at certain times in history, open carrying of a weapon meant one was usually seen as one of the good guys, and those that carried concealed were looked at with suspicion. My, how times have changed.

People open carry for different reasons. Are there the few that do it to show off in some way? Sure, but that usually wears off quickly. The show offs don't/won't invest money into a quality holster and belt, and soon become tired of having to pull their pants up all the time because the weight of the gun keeps pulling their belt and pants down.

From my own experience, there are some days where I just don't feel like having to dress around my gun. If it's a hot summer day, having to throw on an extra layer of clothing just to conceal carry my handgun, and be uncomfortable while doing it, doesn't make for an enjoyable day. While I don't make it a habit of open carrying, it does happen on occasion. Usually when I've gone to the range, or I'm on my way back from an all day class at the Sig Sauer Academy, and I stop to grab some dinner on the way home. I don't give two hoots about impressing anyone. It's just another day and I'm minding my own business, getting things done.

Depending on how one carries may mean additional expenses in the wardrobe department. Inside the waist band or appendix carry means buying pants that are a size or two larger. Carrying outside the waistband or in a shoulder holster means buying shirts that are larger in order to conceal properly. Not all people have the disposable income necessary to have separate wardrobes for carry and non-carry days.

If one does choose to open carry, does that entail a change in behavior? Absolutely. One who open carries should be even more attentive than usual to the environment and people around them while doing so, and should also use a quality retention holster.

No matter a persons gender, color, income, or place in society, everyone has the right to have the means to protect themselves. Criminals don't make appointments, they don't abide by the law, and they certainly don't give a hoot about gun-free zone signs. That no guns sign that makes some comfortable is merely an invitation for the criminal. It tells them that there is likely no one there to resist them and their criminal behavior. It does more to embolden the criminal than deter them. A false sense of security is no security at all. That openly armed individual that some look down upon may be the very one that risks their own life to protect that person, should a violent criminal decide that that person is going to be their next target.

If you see someone openly carrying, don't just look at the gun, look at the person. Look at their appearance, their clothing, their demeanor. A clean cut person who appears to be calm and confident, with a decent belt and holster, I wouldn't give them a second glance. The unkempt person with the nervous look about him and with a cheap belt and holster, yeah, I'm going to pay attention to him for a bit. It doesn't mean they're a bad person. For all I know, they're new to carrying, and could use some helpful advice. If that's the case, good on them for choosing to take responsibility for their own safety, and not expecting someone else to do it for them.

Food for thought; would you rather the person leave the handgun in their car so that you would feel more at ease in the store, knowing that it might be stolen out of the vehicle? Or would you rather they have it on their person in the store, openly, and under their control?

[Garcia]

Food for thought; would you rather the person leave the handgun in their car so that you would feel more at ease in the store, knowing that it might be stolen out of the vehicle? Or would you rather they have it on their person in the store, openly, and under their control?

Since you asked, I would prefer guns were left unloaded, with an appropriate trigger lock, out of site, in a locked vehicle.

[LikeLakes]

Food for thought; would you rather the person leave the handgun in their car so that you would feel more at ease in the store, knowing that it might be stolen out of the vehicle? Or would you rather they have it on their person in the store, openly, and under their control?

My preference would be for them to leave it in the car, of course locked and out of sight.

Great posts, XCR and kayakinkid! Really thoughtful comments. Me personally, as I've said a few times, I don't ever feel unsafe, personally don't choose to own guns, have absolutely never had the slightest urge to be armed in public. That's me. We all have our own feelings and views on things, and I do respect and understand those that want to be armed.

I don't agree that a gun on the hip will just become normalized over time. I think that there's a significant % of the population that is fearful when they see an armed person, and will continue to be uncomfortable. I hope there aren't more and more people that decide to open carry, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[MAXUM]

Because we all KNOW why cops carry a gun: we don't know why a civilian is strapped.

It is context-related.

Sort of like if you're in a doctor's office and a nurse approaches you with a hypodermic to give you a prescribed shot you aren't concerned, but if you're in a restroom and a stranger approaches you with a hypodermic needle in hand you'll feel anxiety.

Why do they need a reason? Maybe that's the problem here in that the assumption is always a nefarious reason even though there is no indication whatsoever any of these observed individuals posed any threat to anyone.

While I understand the dramatics of the analogy you used here, there is only one problem with it. Nowhere was it mentioned that anyone had a gun in hand. A person in uniform or not that approaches casually with a holstered firearm is far different than if it were drawn with a purpose and ready to be used.

[thinkxingu]

Why do they need a reason? Maybe that's the problem here in that the assumption is always a nefarious reason even though there is no indication whatsoever any of these observed individuals posed any threat to anyone.

While I understand the dramatics of the analogy you used here, there is only one problem with it. Nowhere was it mentioned that anyone had a gun in hand. A person in uniform or not that approaches casually with a holstered firearm is far different than if it were drawn with a purpose and ready to be used.Legally, they don't need a reason. But given the climate in the country right now, open carrying is unquestionably provocative.

In response to above, every LEO and military member I know carries concealed. When asked, a few former students answered similarly: "I carry for safety, not for show."

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[Mr. V]

If you have a CWP and want to carry, fine, do so but do it concealed.

Why would anyone do open carry if they have a CWP, i.e. what is the point, other than wanting to draw attention to themselves?

Could it be that people who open carry cannot qualify for a CWP?

The authorities out here convicted some clown who was open carrying, parading around for no reason, drawing attention to himself; he said he did it for political reasons, but was convicted nonetheless.

The only time I can see justification for open carrying is if you are on your own property or out in the woods where bears, cougars or other animals could be a threat; open carrying is not needed to deter people, at least not when / if you carry concealed.

[YOLO]

Since you asked, I would prefer guns were left unloaded, with an appropriate trigger lock, out of site, in a locked vehicle.

What you prefer is irrelevant. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. This debate is useless. Our rights are backed up by the US Constitution and the State of NH which allows concealed or open carry, no permit needed. If a business doesn't want people carrying, they should put up a sign.

Again, there is a nanny state just to the south if there are those who do not like people exercising their second amendment rights. They frown upon it down there and feel triggered (no pun) if they find out someone has a gun, even lawfully. Live Free or Die is the motto here and many of us live by it. A gun locked in a car does not protect the owner.

[Garcia]

What you prefer is irrelevant. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. This debate is useless. Our rights are backed up by the US Constitution and the State of NH which allows concealed or open carry, no permit needed. If a business doesn't want people carrying, they should put up a sign.

Again, there is a nanny state just to the south if there are those who do not like people exercising their second amendment rights. They frown upon it down there and feel triggered (no pun) if they find out someone has a gun, even lawfully. Live Free or Die is the motto here and many of us live by it. A gun locked in a car does not protect the owner.

The poster asked a question if it is preferable to leave a firearm in the car where it might be stolen or carried openly. I answered what I would prefer.

[XCR-700]

Legally, they don't need a reason. But given the climate in the country right now, open carrying is unquestionably provocative.

In response to above, every LEO and military member I know carries concealed. When asked, a few former students answered similarly: "I carry for safety, not for show."

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Again clearly you are entitled to your opinion and you presented it reasonably and respectfully so I thank you for no drama added.

That said I respectfully disagree that open carry is "provocative"

I would argue if anything it is a rampart or a deterrent.

But these are just opinions.

As stated before, all we know with absolute surety is that no harm had come to anyone as a direct result of open carry at the Plymouth Market Basket (the origin of this thread) That is the only absolutely 100% irrefutable statement and has stood the test of all that has been said here. And so with that said, is there really any need to say any more? This is a non-issue. Nothing is wrong, nothing needs to be fixed, nothing needs to be changed except the false notion there is anything concerning about open carry in the Plymouth Market basket.

Are we done yet? how stupid is that question ;-)

ATB

[SAB1]

I gotta side with Thinkxingu. In today’s climate it is nothing short of provocative. There are antis everywhere and all open carry does is get them beating their drum. Any class I’ve ever taken in concealed carry does not advocate open carry. It just draws attention to you which is not what you want. That said, it doesn’t bother me but that is likely because I’ve been around guns all my life. While I am a strong believer in the 2nd amendment due to today’s current environment I do believe in background checks to carry a handgun. If you lived somewhere where background checks were required and open carry was common a lot less fear and opposition would likely be portrayed. There would always be opposition but it would be less. Like we say…guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

[FlyingScot]

People open carry for different reasons. Are there the few that do it to show off in some way? Sure, but that usually wears off quickly. The show offs don't/won't invest money into a quality holster and belt, and soon become tired of having to pull their pants up all the time because the weight of the gun keeps pulling their belt and pants down.

Food for thought; would you rather the person leave the handgun in their car so that you would feel more at ease in the store, knowing that it might be stolen out of the vehicle? Or would you rather they have it on their person in the store, openly, and under their control?

Oh please--you're just a guy in NH. Nobody's coming to shoot you in the grocery store, and no one's breaking into your car while you're at the deli counter. That gets us down to a very short list of reasons...

[XCR-700]

While I am a strong believer in the 2nd amendment due to today’s current environment I do believe in background checks to carry a handgun..

You do realize that there is no mental health information made available in background checks, it is protected and not shared with LE.

So all a background check does is possibly pick up some one who is currently wanted or with a restraining order on them, or possibly ID a previously convicted criminal. And thats only if everything works perfectly. And do you really think those people are applying for a license to carry in the first place,,,

So what does the background check actually do to make concealed carry safer??? NOTHING.

Sorry, these are just the facts, not opinion, not unsubstantiated fear, not speculation.

[Descant]

You do realize that there is no mental health information made available in background checks, it is protected and not shared with LE.

So all a background check does is possibly pick up some one who is currently wanted or with a restraining order on them, or possibly ID a previously convicted criminal. And thats only if everything works perfectly. And do you really think those people are applying for a license to carry in the first place,,,

So what does the background check actually do to make concealed carry safer??? NOTHING.

Sorry, these are just the facts, not opinion, not unsubstantiated fear, not speculation.
I thought, in order to get a conceal carry permit (so you could go to other states) you had to get a sign off from the local PD. In most towns in NH, the PD knows you, or can learn a lot with 2-3 phone calls. That part of the system works, in my mind.

[thinkxingu]

I thought, in order to get a conceal carry permit (so you could go to other states) you had to get a sign off from the local PD. In most towns in NH, the PD knows you, or can learn a lot with 2-3 phone calls. That part of the system works, in my mind.I mentioned my experience above: I went in to the PD, filled out a one-page form, and paid $10.

From what I know, though, it only applies to NH and a few states that offer reciprocity. I can't carry in MA unless I complete an out-of-state license to carry application. No idea how different their background check would be given that NH's will be federal.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[XCR-700]

I thought, in order to get a conceal carry permit (so you could go to other states) you had to get a sign off from the local PD. In most towns in NH, the PD knows you, or can learn a lot with 2-3 phone calls. That part of the system works, in my mind.

RE: "the PD knows you, or can learn a lot with 2-3 phone calls"

Thats not part of any official background check and not legitimate grounds for denial of a CC license. It might have been how old-school LE operated, but its not any part of modern LE procedures for concealed carry licensing.

The FBI NICS check is the key basis for most concealed carry permits and it only contains mental health data for people who are already in some federal database, such as convicted felons maybe some VA patients, few others, but not the majority of people.

Your mental health data kept by your health care provider is protected against disclosure by HIPAA rules, and that medical and mental health information is very strictly protected against disclosure.

That has been and ongoing and very serious debate in congress for a while. The firearms pre-purchase and concealed carry background check does very little good without mandatory reporting of mental health problems, and at the same time that is possibly an individuals most sensitive personal information.

On the one side, many fear that disclosure of mental health data will keep far too many from getting the treatment they need due to fear of the information going into some national database and then being used against them for all kinds of reasons.

And on the other side some feel it is critical for law enforcement to have access to such data to protect the public.

At the moment its a no win situation and seemingly deadlocked.

I offer no comment about the matter except that it is a challenging matter.

[XCR-700]

I mentioned my experience above: I went in to the PD, filled out a one-page form, and paid $10.

From what I know, though, it only applies to NH and a few states that offer reciprocity. I can't carry in MA unless I complete an out-of-state license to carry application. No idea how different their background check would be given that NH's will be federal.

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The process in Mass is very similar and the background check is the same, but the cost is a whole bunch more! At last check it was $100.00 The cost of living on the other side of the fence where life is so much better. NOT!

I dont oppose the license requirement, but I think it does nothing to protect the public. Its just a means of slowing people down. In the end it really makes no difference in anything. Its just another means of tracking everything we do and squeezing more money out of the working man.

[SAB1]

You do realize that there is no mental health information made available in background checks, it is protected and not shared with LE.

So all a background check does is possibly pick up some one who is currently wanted or with a restraining order on them, or possibly ID a previously convicted criminal. And thats only if everything works perfectly. And do you really think those people are applying for a license to carry in the first place,,,

So what does the background check actually do to make concealed carry safer??? NOTHING.

Sorry, these are just the facts, not opinion, not unsubstantiated fear, not speculation.

Agree the mental health aspect is an issue…actually the biggest issue. But if a background check kicks out felons and denies them the right to carry I’m all for it.

[mhtranger]

Oh please--you're just a guy in NH. Nobody's coming to shoot you in the grocery store, and no one's breaking into your car while you're at the deli counter. That gets us down to a very short list of reasons...

Really, you know this how? When has a mass shooting ever been where you would have expected it?

Do you know how most criminals get their guns? Yep stolen from homes and vehicles. I have a lock box (made for guns) in my truck but it wouldn’t take much to open it with a few tools.

[fatlazyless]

Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle, the movie character played by Gene Hackman in the 1971 film, The French Connection, was an undercover NYPD police officer who haunted the Manhattan subway system, chasing big-time drug dealers in these wild crazy, running chase scenes, moving from subway car to car to car.

As I recall his concealed handgun was a smallish revolver stored away in an ankle holster, and it seemed to all be a doable carrying method for Popeye Doyle as he ran like hell through the moving trolley cars! ..... :laugh:

Isn't that something like walking around with an anchor attached to your ankle when done in the real world of local N.H. and not in a movie scene? That ankle holster carry method probably gets old, very fast, and not very practical plus an ankle holster is no good while wearing shorts or a swim suit. .... ;)

Apparently, from the four different individual men who I saw at various different days and times inside the Plymouth Market Basket, the gun of choice that everyone is now carrying is a black semi-auto, a large fat gun that probably has a lot of bullets. You can just forgetabout that small revolver that worked good for Popeye Doyle ....... now-a-days ...... no self-respect'n open carry DUDE would be wanting to be seen in public with a little revolver like that ...... no way! ...... it needs to be a serious semi-auto ....... with a backup magazine or two ...... today! ..... yes sir .... that's right! .... ;)

[XCR-700]

Agree the mental health aspect is an issue…actually the biggest issue. But if a background check kicks out felons and denies them the right to carry I’m all for it.

But how many felons do you really think are applying for CC licenses??? Even the stupidest among us cant be that dumb and to try for a CC License being a former felon. God help us if society has de-evolved that much, and if so, the fact that these people would have a CC License is probably not our biggest problem!

[XCR-700]

Really, you know this how? When has a mass shooting ever been where you would have expected it?

Do you know how most criminals get their guns? Yep stolen from homes and vehicles. I have a lock box (made for guns) in my truck but it wouldn’t take much to open it with a few tools.

Very sad, and unfortunately all too true,,,

I really think this thread has run well past any value to anyone. Its just becoming an unfortunate tool to pit otherwise reasonable people against each other. I dont see any reason for the banter to continue, peoples minds are pretty made up as to where you stand on this matter and I dont see much change coming out of all this except to irritate each other. Its just a subject thats too divisive accomplish anything,,,

[SAB1]

But how many felons do you really think are applying for CC licenses??? Even the stupidest among us cant be that dumb and to try for a CC License being a former felon. God help us if society has de-evolved that much, and if so, the fact that these people would have a CC License is probably not our biggest problem!

Exactly my point why there should be checks. How many felons do you think are carrying in states like NH with no permitting required................plenty.

[LikeLakes]

You can just forgetabout that small revolver that worked good for Popeye Doyle ....... now-a-days ...... no self-respect'n open carry DUDE would be wanting to be seen in public with a little revolver like that ...... no way!

Popeye drove a Pontiac LeMans, based on the movie year must have been a 1970 or 1971 model. Based on your logic, everyone should drive 1970 vehicles, have to be showing off if you drive anything newer than that???

I'm not arguing that, IMO, many open carry people are doing so for the show, I firmly believe that. But I don't think owning a modern weapon is unreasonable.

[YOLO]

Exactly my point why there should be checks. How many felons do you think are carrying in states like NH with no permitting required................plenty.

If they are carrying, the gun they have isn't legal. Felons won't pass the background check to buy and the fact is there are more felons carrying in Chicago with no license than in NH that we actually can document. And that state and city has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.

Felons will carry no matter the permit requirement. Your argument is specious and deceptive and or totally misguided.

[XCR-700]

Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle, the movie character played by Gene Hackman in the 1971 film, The French Connection, was an undercover NYPD police officer who haunted the Manhattan subway system, chasing big-time drug dealers in these wild crazy, running chase scenes, moving from subway car to car to car.

As I recall his concealed handgun was a smallish revolver stored away in an ankle holster, and it seemed to all be a doable carrying method for Popeye Doyle as he ran like hell through the moving trolley cars! ..... :laugh:

Isn't that something like walking around with an anchor attached to your ankle when done in the real world of local N.H. and not in a movie scene? That ankle holster carry method probably gets old, very fast, and not very practical plus an ankle holster is no good while wearing shorts or a swim suit. .... ;)

Apparently, from the four different individual men who I saw at various different days and times inside the Plymouth Market Basket, the gun of choice that everyone is now carrying is a black semi-auto, a large fat gun that probably has a lot of bullets. You can just forgetabout that small revolver that worked good for Popeye Doyle ....... now-a-days ...... no self-respect'n open carry DUDE would be wanting to be seen in public with a little revolver like that ...... no way! ...... it needs to be a serious semi-auto ....... with a backup magazine or two ...... today! ..... yes sir .... that's right! .... ;)

Any detail portrayed in the movies such as running through NY with a revolver in an ankle holster is just for effect and not representative of real life activity.

But if I read your post correctly you are not advocating for a revolver in an ankle holster, but at the same time you also seem to be hyper focused on what are probably rather indiscreet 9mm pocket pistols, as it is doubtful that the folks you are seeing in Market Basket are shopping with large guns such as long slide or wide body/hi cap 1911's or 50 caliber Desert Eagles on their belts.

So one would think that seeing a smallish black 9mm pocket pistol would be the most indiscreet handgun someone might have as their open carry gun. As such, shouldn't you be happy for their efforts to carry such an indiscreet pistol? My guess is that most of your fellow customers are oblivious to the people with handguns and thats a good thing.

Would you rather they carry a high polished stainless 500 S & W in a chest holster? Or maybe a gleaming stainless Death Wish 475 Wildey or Dirty Harry 44 Auto Mag just tucked in their pants like Charles Bronson or Clint Eastwood,,, Of maybe the previously mentioned leather western gun belt with like 20 extra rounds on display with a beautiful pair of nickle plated Colt SAA's ala the Lone Ranger??? Now wouldn't that be an interesting site.

So many options and yet its still nearly impossible to satisfy everyone,,,

[XCR-700]

Exactly my point why there should be checks. How many felons do you think are carrying in states like NH with no permitting required................plenty.

And the licensing and background checks do nothing to stop criminals from breaking the law, it only impacts law abiding citizens.

How is that helpful? Its a very odd system we have built that restricts the law abiding and does nothing to prevent the lawless from their actions,,,

[mhtranger]

The process in Mass is very similar and the background check is the same, but the cost is a whole bunch more! At last check it was $100.00 The cost of living on the other side of the fence where life is so much better. NOT!

Before I moved up here I lived in Ma and a $100 cost covered me for 5 years now my non resident is $100 a year and don’t even think about missing your deadline for renewal.

[Neko]

If you are over 70 years old there no charge for your permit. If you are a Ma. resident.

[XCR-700]

If you are over 70 years old there no charge for your permit. If you are a Ma. resident.

With the stress from reading this thread I wont make it to 70,,, :(

[SAB1]

Lol. I think I said back a couple pages gun debates never go anywhere. Heels are dug in on both sides:laugh:

[John Mercier]

Because the debate is by the people that do not make the decisions.

The most you can do is decide to shop/work there or not based on policy and enforcement of the policy.

Businesses will adjust policy to achieve the highest degree of satisfied customers and employees.

[ApS]

My first observed case of "open carry" was at a little sandwich shop at the end of Squam Lake. I was put-off by the sight. :( (No badge...no uniform--just wrong). :mad:

In 1971, an ideal concealed-carry firearm was the Smith & Wesson model 37, 5-shot revolver. As a Deputy Sheriff, I carried one in a modified leather ankle holster for 27 years. (Retired with three years USN service credited). Back then, I boarded commercial airlines while carrying a loaded 6-shot or 5-shot revolver. :eek2:

In 1971, Miami-Dade County had no money for armaments so I had to supply my own (required) "38" and ammunition. In my case, my on-duty firearm was a caliber "S&W 38" revolver--not caliber "38-Special" revolver. (Grip-safety for the cognicenti). Forty bucks "got me legal" with my new employer. :cool:

When on duty, in plain clothes, concealment of the County-issued Smith & Wesson model 15 revolver was EASY--just pull out the shirt tails and cover the comparatively huge wooden grips.

Sometimes, I'd forget I had the model 37 revolver with me, and more than once, mowed the lawn with it firmly strapped to my ankle. :o

(I only needed it once--well, make that five times. :o )

Just for the record, I think "open carry" is stupid--and dangerous.

Legalized "open carry" is a bridge too far, IMHO. :rolleye1:

[John Mercier]

Well, we have had legal open carry since before the State was founded. And to my knowledge it has never been restricted by the government except in certain locations and situations.

[MAXUM]

Exactly my point why there should be checks. How many felons do you think are carrying in states like NH with no permitting required................plenty.

In case you were not aware it is ILLEGAL for a felon to be in possession of any firearm. It is an IMMEDIATE disqualifier to purchase a firearm and why background checks are performed.

If caught it is another felony conviction and could be a lot of trouble for the person who last purchased it.

The reason why a felon cannot get a permit or would even try is that they cannot under any circumstances legally possess.

[Mr. V]

I just read that no license or permit is needed to carry concealed in NH, unlike out west.

[SAB1]

Ya misused the word felon and probably should have said criminal. At any rate felons aren’t buying legally anyway. But I have no doubt in my mind that in open carry states with no permitting required there are bad guys open carrying. I worked with the general public for years and quickly learned how stupid people are.

[MAXUM]

I just read that no license or permit is needed to carry concealed in NH, unlike out west.

Yes NH recently did this. I want to say it was a couple years ago. The logic is quite simple on this. To purchase you have to pass a background check, to carry concealed you have to pass the same checks again. Why? It is repetitive and stupid. Did anyone really think going through the motions of this was really doing something meaningful? Ah yes it's a visual "feel good" right?

Bottom line if you qualify to possess then you qualify to carry. Grounds for legal possession is a mandatory prerequisite.

Why there are multiple layers here makes no sense at all. Not unless you begin to understand the reason why these meaningless and stupid regulations are put into place. They aren't meant to do anything at face value as advertised, rather they are meant to make it so painful to legally acquire, possess and carry that many will just give up and not bother.

[Garcia]

Yes NH recently did this. I want to say it was a couple years ago. The logic is quite simple on this. To purchase you have to pass a background check, to carry concealed you have to pass the same checks again. Why? It is repetitive and stupid. Did anyone really think going through the motions of this was really doing something meaningful? Ah yes it's a visual "feel good" right?

Bottom line if you qualify to possess then you qualify to carry. Grounds for legal possession is a mandatory prerequisite.

Why there are multiple layers here makes no sense at all. Not unless you begin to understand the reason why these meaningless and stupid regulations are put into place. They aren't meant to do anything at face value as advertised, rather they are meant to make it so painful to legally acquire, possess and carry that many will just give up and not bother.

It's been years since I bought a gun or ammo in MA. When last I did, I had to show my FID card. Does NH require anything like this? Is any kind of license required to carry or is an ID and background check all that is needed?

[thinkxingu]

It's been years since I bought a gun or ammo in MA. When last I did, I had to show my FID card. Does NH require anything like this? Is any kind of license required to carry or is an ID and background check all that is needed?I bought some .22lr yesterday in NH, and all I had to do was show my license.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[XCR-700]

Yes NH recently did this. I want to say it was a couple years ago. The logic is quite simple on this. To purchase you have to pass a background check, to carry concealed you have to pass the same checks again. Why? It is repetitive and stupid. Did anyone really think going through the motions of this was really doing something meaningful? Ah yes it's a visual "feel good" right?

Bottom line if you qualify to possess then you qualify to carry. Grounds for legal possession is a mandatory prerequisite.

Why there are multiple layers here makes no sense at all. Not unless you begin to understand the reason why these meaningless and stupid regulations are put into place. They aren't meant to do anything at face value as advertised, rather they are meant to make it so painful to legally acquire, possess and carry that many will just give up and not bother.

The "real" bottom line in all this is no form of gun control has actually ever accomplished anything except to restrict honest citizens. As criminals dont worry about the law, they dont buy guns legally thats too complected and costly, they steal them or buy them underground for half of what we pay and with no license requirement of waiting periods, and when they carry they never worry about permits.

Gun control is a fantasy, there are enough guns for every man, woman and child to have several each, so the cats out of the bag. Al gun control does is add cost to the purchase by honest citizens, and generate more money for government. It does nothing to stop crime. Simply look at Chicago, totally uncontrolled crime and illegal possession and criminal use of guns. And only honest citizens are impacted by the countless gun laws and restrictions.

Gun control, another failed experiment brought to you by the people who live in fear and dont actually see the world as it is and the big picture. And what doe these same people all have in common, armed body guards! Sickening,,,

[SAB1]

The "real" bottom line in all this is no form of gun control has actually ever accomplished anything except to restrict honest citizens. As criminals dont worry about the law, they dont buy guns legally thats too complected and costly, they steal them or buy them underground for half of what we pay and with no license requirement of waiting periods, and when they carry they never worry about permits.

Gun control is a fantasy, there are enough guns for every man, woman and child to have several each, so the cats out of the bag. Al gun control does is add cost to the purchase by honest citizens, and generate more money for government. It does nothing to stop crime. Simply look at Chicago, totally uncontrolled crime and illegal possession and criminal use of guns. And only honest citizens are impacted by the countless gun laws and restrictions.

Gun control, another failed experiment brought to you by the people who live in fear and dont actually see the world as it is and the big picture. And what doe these same people all have in common, armed body guards! Sickening,,,

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

[XCR-700]

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

Its a very disappointing situation, I think most reasonable gun owners support reasonable firearms safety standards/restrictions/laws, but then when we agree to ANY restrictions, those who are completely against any firearms in civilian hands take gross advantage of the situation and the floodgates of gun control open wide exceeding any level of reasonable.

One only needs to look at the utter nonsense in Massachusetts where the state attorney general empowered themself to require each and every new gun sold in Mass to be lab tested and certified at the manufactures expense to pass ridiculous standards and then still need to be approved by a board before being offered for sale in the state. AND then each and every variant of that gun must be certified and approved even before being offered for sale, when the only difference is barrel length or finish such as blued vs stainless vs nickle, no mechanical difference between the models. This requirement was not voted on by the public, this was not voted on by the legislature, this was not voted on by any politician, it was a shameless power grab and we let it happen and continue to happen. Its a horrifying example of totalitarian power mongers imposing their will on the people who will not push back. Its a frightening example of government overreach that continues to go unchecked.

This is exactly why gun owners finally get fed up and say NO, No more restrictions of any kind, No more rules, No more anything, bring back the wild west because all the cost and delays and restrictions have done NOTHING to prevent crime. Its a total fantasy that gun control accomplishes anything other than to drive up cost and burden to law abiding people. Criminals do not suffer in the least, and crime is NOT reduced.

So when you start talking about open carry vs concealed, and the impact, dont be at all surprised at the backlash. Law abiding gun owners have hit the wall of total BS lies that any gun control accomplishes anything. And anyone who is "uncomfortable" seeing a gun needs to grow up and be an adult. We all got over the discomfort of seeing people that look differently than we do, talk differently than we do, dress differently than we do, act differently than we do. So unless you see someone actually dangerously handling a gun in public, you have ZERO credibility saying you were uncomfortable or intimidated or anything. This us utter childish and useless nonsense.

[YOLO]

Its a very disappointing situation, I think most reasonable gun owners support reasonable firearms safety standards/restrictions/laws, but then when we agree to ANY restrictions, those who are completely against any firearms in civilian hands take gross advantage of the situation and the floodgates of gun control open wide exceeding any level of reasonable.

One only needs to look at the utter nonsense in Massachusetts where the state attorney general empowered themself to require each and every new gun sold in Mass to be lab tested and certified at the manufactures expense to pass ridiculous standards and then still need to be approved by a board before being offered for sale in the state. AND then each and every variant of that gun must be certified and approved even before being offered for sale, when the only difference is barrel length or finish such as blued vs stainless vs nickle, no mechanical difference between the models. This requirement was not voted on by the public, this was not voted on by the legislature, this was not voted on by any politician, it was a shameless power grab and we let it happen and continue to happen. Its a horrifying example of totalitarian power mongers imposing their will on the people who will not push back. Its a frightening example of government overreach that continues to go unchecked.

This is exactly why gun owners finally get fed up and say NO, No more restrictions of any kind, No more rules, No more anything, bring back the wild west because all the cost and delays and restrictions have done NOTHING to prevent crime. Its a total fantasy that gun control accomplishes anything other than to drive up cost and burden to law abiding people. Criminals do not suffer in the least, and crime is NOT reduced.

So when you start talking about open carry vs concealed, and the impact, dont be at all surprised at the backlash. Law abiding gun owners have hit the wall of total BS lies that any gun control accomplishes anything. And anyone who is "uncomfortable" seeing a gun needs to grow up and be an adult. We all got over the discomfort of seeing people that look differently than we do, talk differently than we do, dress differently than we do, act differently than we do. So unless you see someone actually dangerously handling a gun in public, you have ZERO credibility saying you were uncomfortable or intimidated or anything. This us utter childish and useless nonsense.

Perfectly Said... Common Sense Gun Control is code for the Gun Grabbers never being satisfied. We can never give an inch on our rights. We are already losing so many of our First Amendment rights every single day. And there are those that applaud it... and usually they are the ones who end up becoming a victim of their own agenda eventually. There is always another extreme position that the totalitarians want to make mainstream. They are NEVER satisfied.

[XCR-700]

Perfectly Said... Common Sense Gun Control is code for the Gun Grabbers never being satisfied. We can never give an inch on our rights. We are already losing so many of our First Amendment rights every single day. And there are those that applaud it... and usually they are the ones who end up becoming a victim of their own agenda eventually. There is always another extreme position that the totalitarians want to make mainstream. They are NEVER satisfied.

Again sad but true,,,

[mhtranger]

The "real" bottom line in all this is no form of gun control has actually ever accomplished anything except to restrict honest citizens. As criminals dont worry about the law, they dont buy guns legally thats too complected and costly, they steal them or buy them underground for half of what we pay and with no license requirement of waiting periods, and when they carry they never worry about permits.

Gun control is a fantasy, there are enough guns for every man, woman and child to have several each, so the cats out of the bag. Al gun control does is add cost to the purchase by honest citizens, and generate more money for government. It does nothing to stop crime. Simply look at Chicago, totally uncontrolled crime and illegal possession and criminal use of guns. And only honest citizens are impacted by the countless gun laws and restrictions.

Gun control, another failed experiment brought to you by the people who live in fear and dont actually see the world as it is and the big picture. And what doe these same people all have in common, armed body guards! Sickening,,,

Someone who gets it!! Thank you.

[ApS]

In case you were not aware it is ILLEGAL for a felon to be in possession of any firearm. It is an IMMEDIATE disqualifier to purchase a firearm and why background checks are performed.
If caught it is another felony conviction and could be a lot of trouble for the person who last purchased it.
The reason why a felon cannot get a permit or would even try is that they cannot under any circumstances legally possess.
Eleven states are restoring convicted-felons' gun rights:

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/us/felons-finding-it-easy-to-regain-gun-rights.html#:~:text=Today%2C%20in%20at%20least%201 1,amount%20of%20time%20crime%2Dfree.

More Stupid... :rolleye2:

[XCR-700]

Eleven states are restoring convicted-felons' gun rights:

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/us/felons-finding-it-easy-to-regain-gun-rights.html#:~:text=Today%2C%20in%20at%20least%201 1,amount%20of%20time%20crime%2Dfree.

More Stupid... :rolleye2:

I would like to agree its stupid, but in truth I cant read the article without paying,,,

Also, its 10 years old, are you sure this is still applicable???

[mbr]

It never crossed your mind that having a person open carrying is a deterrent to a common criminal?

What makes you think the open carry guy is not a common criminal?
How often do we hear about a "good guy with a gun" blasting away at a suspected shoplifter in a crowded parking lot?
How often do we hear of guns being stolen in burglaries, or a child shoots another child with a gun, because the "responsible" gun owner didn't secure the gun?
Just because someone buys a gun legally, doesn't mean he/she is a "good guy", or not irresponsible, or not a blithering idiot.

[Treerider]

It’s better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it……
Just sayin….

[BBS3]

What makes you think the open carry guy is not a common criminal?
How often do we hear about a "good guy with a gun" blasting away at a suspected shoplifter in a crowded parking lot?
How often do we hear of guns being stolen in burglaries, or a child shoots another child with a gun, because the "responsible" gun owner didn't secure the gun?
Just because someone buys a gun legally, doesn't mean he/she is a "good guy", or not irresponsible, or not a blithering idiot.Why in the world would you think that a felon would draw attention to themselves by openly carrying a weapon? Absurd. More likely plain clothes LEO.

Sent from my moto g(9) power using Tapatalk

[XCR-700]

States like Arizona are what I call the "new Americans" they dont have the longstanding identities of places like New England with our deeply ingrained beliefs, so sometimes they see the world differently, sometimes with a new clearer perspective. They are not always right, but they can be very different.

So this is their latest thinking on the open carry matter. Its an interesting take and not for everyone, probably not for me, but it is one perspective from "new America"

Enjoy ;-)

https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/225547906_10220616509070365_2155518225567798043_n. jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=0um-yxtqR10AX9-J4-p&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=aa45253a70aa9203bb18fa67ed8aa9b1&oe=61255BAB

[FlyingScot]

States like Arizona are what I call the "new Americans" they dont have the longstanding identities of places like New England with our deeply ingrained beliefs, so sometimes they see the world differently, sometimes with a new clearer perspective. They are not always right, but they can be very different.

So this is their latest thinking on the open carry matter. Its an interesting take and not for everyone, probably not for me, but it is one perspective from "new America"


Yes--this is similar to what I was describing before. Not really serious self-defense, more like dressing up and pretending

[XCR-700]

Yes--this is similar to what I was describing before. Not really serious self-defense, more like dressing up and pretending

No disagreement, and it is certainly not what we are used to seeing in the last hundred years, but in reality how are we harmed. Sorry but feeling uncomfortable or intimidated is not legitimate. Many feel just as uncomfortable seeing big burly men with beards and tatoos getting off their bikes and walking into the Market Basket, while most have gotten used to it.

I know of no cases where just the act of open carry has resulted in injury to anyone. The perceived risk is a fantasy. Its like seeing a 40' Fountain with giant supercharged engines on Winnipesaukee. Its just being there is not a risk to anyone, its when it is used improperly that it becomes a problem, and how often does that really happen??? We probably have far more 25' boats causing problems every day than any giant speed boat.

Same for open carry, I'll be willing to bet NH has far more murders caused by stabbing and being beat to death with bare fists then were the result of anyone who was openly carrying a handgun.

So whats next, steak knife registration, smart knives that can only be used by the registered owner, no hollow ground knives,,,

Its all a mater of perspective, not actual data driven fact.

And again, this from a guy who has never carried openly and probably never will.

[FlyingScot]

No disagreement, and it is certainly not what we are used to seeing in the last hundred years, but in reality how are we harmed. Sorry but feeling uncomfortable or intimidated is not legitimate. Many feel just as uncomfortable seeing big burly men with beards and tatoos getting off their bikes and walking into the Market Basket, while most have gotten used to it.

I know of no cases where just the act of open carry has resulted in injury to anyone. The perceived risk is a fantasy. Its like seeing a 40' Fountain with giant supercharged engines on Winnipesaukee. Its just being there is not a risk to anyone, its when it is used improperly that it becomes a problem, and how often does that really happen??? We probably have far more 25' boats causing problems every day than any giant speed boat.

Same for open carry, I'll be willing to bet NH has far more murders caused by stabbing and being beat to death with bare fists then were the result of anyone who was openly carrying a handgun.

So whats next, steak knife registration, smart knives that can only be used by the registered owner, no hollow ground knives,,,

Its all a mater of perspective, not actual data driven fact.

And again, this from a guy who has never carried openly and probably never will.

You're killin' me-- on the other thread you just advocated regulating paddle boards

[XCR-700]

You're killin' me-- on the other thread you just advocated regulating paddle boards

Yes for factual reasons, not fear mongering.

Do you really believe just having a gun in a holster that is viable to others is of the same kind and level of risk a paddle boarder will be exposed to while navigating around the close quarters of a public dock being used at the very same time as power boats, with constant wakes coming in, variable wind, and a potential current?

I cant see how you can call them similar matters for risk.

But maybe you can articulate your concerns in the form of actual risk, and I will certainly consider any reasonable facts. For example should paddle boarders be required to wear tethers? As if the board gets away from them they are at even greater risk. Or should open carry holsters be required to be specifically fitted to the guns to ensure proper retention? We do not want loaded guns falling out of holsters!

Legitimate concerns are usually clear to everyone, whereas fear and fear mongering look very different.

Your opinions may well vary and clearly do on some matters, and you are entitled to your opinions no argument. Its when you impose restrictions on others that are not legitimate fact based risks that we will have disagreement.

Well so says I ;-)

ATB

[FlyingScot]

But maybe you can articulate your concerns in the form of actual risk, and I will certainly consider any reasonable facts.

ATB

Guns in general are obviously much more dangerous than paddle boards--check the interwebs for deaths. And I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the thousands of words you've written in just this thread, you've said that guns should not be regulated at all.

So yes, it's kind if funny that you would go after those crazy dangerous paddle boards

[DEJ]

Guns in general are obviously much more dangerous than paddle boards--check the interwebs for deaths. And I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the thousands of words you've written in just this thread, you've said that guns should not be regulated at all.

So yes, it's kind if funny that you would go after those crazy dangerous paddle boards

Guns are no more dangerous than anything else, the gun does not commit a shooting, the person does. The hammer did not bludgeon the person to death, the person holding the hammer did. Age old argument some will never get or admit. Carry on...

[LikeLakes]

So yes, it's kind if funny that you would go after those crazy dangerous paddle boards

In the hands of an untrained person they are a menace. I've seen a person carrying a paddle board turn suddenly and mow down an entire family like they were bowling pins. Dangerous slabs of plastic for sure. :laugh:

[LikeLakes]

Guns are no more dangerous than anything else, the gun does not commit a shooting, the person does. The hammer did not bludgeon the person to death, the person holding the hammer did. Age old argument some will never get or admit. Carry on...

DEJ, I honestly get that argument, and there is validity to it to some extent. I just think it can be carried too far.

Should shoulder fired missiles be legal? After all, the missile doesn't fire itself, the person aiming it at the plane does. To me it's just common sense that a pocket knife is more dangerous than a piece of cardboard, a butcher knife is more dangerous than a pocket knife, a handgun is more dangerous than a butcher knife, and a shoulder fired missile is more dangerous than a handgun. For some reason some people that support gun rights steadfastly refuse to say that a handgun (or shotgun or rifle) is a potentially dangerous piece of equipment. I agree that the person operates the gun, no argument from me about that. Just looking for perspective.

[XCR-700]

Guns in general are obviously much more dangerous than paddle boards--check the interwebs for deaths. And I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the thousands of words you've written in just this thread, you've said that guns should not be regulated at all.

So yes, it's kind if funny that you would go after those crazy dangerous paddle boards

NOPE, NEVER said guns should not be regulated at all, might have said gun owner say no more regulation in response to way over reaching extremists, and thats not the same thing.

Guns are by design dangerous, especially when used as weapons, paddle boards are generally only dangerous when used in the wrong place and without personal protections.

If you don't see the difference between the two, probably not much I can say will change your opinion.

ATB

[DEJ]

DEJ, I honestly get that argument, and there is validity to it to some extent. I just think it can be carried too far.

Should shoulder fired missiles be legal? After all, the missile doesn't fire itself, the person aiming it at the plane does. To me it's just common sense that a pocket knife is more dangerous than a piece of cardboard, a butcher knife is more dangerous than a pocket knife, a handgun is more dangerous than a butcher knife, and a shoulder fired missile is more dangerous than a handgun. For some reason some people that support gun rights steadfastly refuse to say that a handgun (or shotgun or rifle) is a potentially dangerous piece of equipment. I agree that the person operates the gun, no argument from me about that. Just looking for perspective.

A handgun or shotgun or rifle is as much a potentially dangerous piece of equipment as a hammer, baseball bat, etc... It does not matter what the implement is, it is the person using said implement that inflicts harm. Can firearms inflict damage to more people quicker than a baseball bat, of course they can, no argument here. I think you get that and thanks for your comment.

[XCR-700]

In the hands of an untrained person they are a menace. I've seen a person carrying a paddle board turn suddenly and mow down an entire family like they were bowling pins. Dangerous slabs of plastic for sure. :laugh:

Might have been said tongue in cheek, but I actually agree, the difference being the paddle board probably being more dangerous to the user.

[LikeLakes]

Might have been said tongue in cheek, but I actually agree, the difference being the paddle board probably being more dangerous to the user.

You know what, I'm going to agree with you on this. To the user, line up 1000 people with paddle boards and 1000 people with guns, and I'd guess the injury rate is higher on the paddle boards.

As for danger to other people, I don't think they are in the same universe. Guns inflict WAY more harm to others than paddle boards. Note this isn't in reference to the thread subject of open carry, simply commenting on guns in general.

[XCR-700]

DEJ, I honestly get that argument, and there is validity to it to some extent. I just think it can be carried too far.

Should shoulder fired missiles be legal? After all, the missile doesn't fire itself, the person aiming it at the plane does. To me it's just common sense that a pocket knife is more dangerous than a piece of cardboard, a butcher knife is more dangerous than a pocket knife, a handgun is more dangerous than a butcher knife, and a shoulder fired missile is more dangerous than a handgun. For some reason some people that support gun rights steadfastly refuse to say that a handgun (or shotgun or rifle) is a potentially dangerous piece of equipment. I agree that the person operates the gun, no argument from me about that. Just looking for perspective.

Some valid and useful comments for all.

So let me reply be saying firearms ARE dangerous and by intentional design, AND most gun owners want them that way. Otherwise we would buy non-firing replicas.

Sure guns can and ARE used for pure recreation and I see no reason to justify why I enjoy shooting magnum handguns and high power rifles, its my fun, just like any buying a Tesla and bragging about its acceleration or someone buying a powerboat over a sailboat.

Like all things there is a use issue and concern, and there should be as well as accountability. But with few exceptions very modest regulation and restrictions.

As for your comments about shoulder fired missiles, well I dont recall any constitutional amendment specifically being written and passed by our government to ensure a personal right to such, and no writings by the founding fathers to promote such. They dont serve much use as personal protection unless you are in fact in a militia fighting back against a rogue government or military, but I suppose some could argue it. I probably would not support it.

As a country how gun control ever got so high on the list of concerns as to every result in the level of restriction we have is totally dumbfounding.

We cant provide food, water, homes, medical treatment, mental health care, and so many other necessary things to our citizens, and yet we can squander politicians time and taxpayers dollars on gin control! Its SHAMEFUL.

When we get the basic necessities right I'll try to be more open minded about whats next of the list. Until then I will remain totally discussed by the constant and ongoing failures of our politicians. For the most part, they are a corrupt and clueless bunch who should be replaced by computers that follow strict rules of law and the constitution.

[XCR-700]

Guns inflict WAY more harm to others than paddle boards. Note this isn't in reference to the thread subject of open carry, simply commenting on guns in general.
Again, this is by intentional design and gun buyers what it that way.

No sense in buying a gun for self defense that only annoys a rapist/killer. For that you could buy an airsoft. When choosing a gun and ammo for defense you want the most possible stopping power you can get. If we could get Star Trek Phasers, I would have one!

As for paddle board safety, maybe we could lobby for mandatory sensors like in cars, so that families can walk by paddle boarders without constant fear of being knocked over like bowling pins. It will only double the cost of the board, and we should also license and register them, just so we can track the stats so we can discuss future restrictions based on facts, not just fear ;-)