NH Mask Mandates

[TiltonBB]

This should make the summer even busier!

[TiltonBB]

I don't think the point is the vaccine availability. The article, and the headline, is about masks, not vaccines.

Many people will want to flee Maskachusetts for mask free New Hampshire.

[WinnisquamZ]

Portsmouth, Nashua, and Hanover have all extended the mask mandate until June 30. Believe, other popular towns will follow. Curious what approach each local business here in the lakes region takes


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Already got an email from Common Man saying all their properties will still require employee's, customers, and service people to be wearing masks.

[WinnisquamZ]

Unfortunately, many will be selecting where to shop and dine


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[FlyingScot]

Unfortunately, many will be selecting where to shop and dine


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I agree. Paradoxically, this will increase stress levels for many businesses as some customers steer clear of mask-free places, and some other customers are irked at masked places.

[Biggd]

Unfortunately, many will be selecting where to shop and dine


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Well I hope it keeps some people out of Lago's, my favorite place.
We tried to get in Saturday night and it was 1 1/2 wait.

[WinnisquamZ]

Believe after May 7 the occupancy limit is lifted so wait time will decrease. But, limited waitstaff hires will limit occupancy. It’s crazy stuff going on here in the Lakes Region. I see little changing with his lifting on the mask mandate as many local businesses and town will add a mask mandate.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[camp guy]

Lifting the mask mandate is crazy logic. New Hampshire is experiencing increases in COVID, and lifting the mask mandate in the face of increasing COVID is just plain wrong. Just exactly what is so wrong about wearing a mask?

Of course there are times when it isn't feasible, but, by and large, wearing a mask is hardly an imposition, especially in light of the protection is provides and in light of the possible ill effects (pun intended) of not wearing a mask.

People wear warm clothes in the winter to keep warm because being cold is not good for you, and people wear sun tan lotion in the summer to protect themselves because too much sun isn't good for you, so why not wear a mask when out and about to protect your respiratory system (and, to some extent, that of your neighbor).

[WinnisquamZ]

No one is stopping you from wearing a mask. Assume you have been vaccinated, so what is your concern? As of Monday everyone who wants to be vaccinated in NH can be, so I ask again. What is your concern?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

Lifting the mask mandate is crazy logic. New Hampshire is experiencing increases in COVID, and lifting the mask mandate in the face of increasing COVID is just plain wrong. Just exactly what is so wrong about wearing a mask?

Of course there are times when it isn't feasible, but, by and large, wearing a mask is hardly an imposition, especially in light of the protection is provides and in light of the possible ill effects (pun intended) of not wearing a mask.

People wear warm clothes in the winter to keep warm because being cold is not good for you, and people wear sun tan lotion in the summer to protect themselves because too much sun isn't good for you, so why not wear a mask when out and about to protect your respiratory system (and, to some extent, that of your neighbor).

I totally agree, it's stupid to lift the mandate this early.

Have you seen the numbers in NH?
Infection rate is double what it was in early March.

Only 27% are vaccinated in NH.

Hey, if I see restaurants THAT I HAVE BEEN GOING TO, having staff with no masks, I won't be going there any more.

I totally felt safer in NH last summer. Right now, I feel safer in MA (even though they similarly pulled some stupid moves too).

[mcdude]

5,800 "breakthrough" cases so far among those who have been fully vaccinated. 73% of the population hasn't even been vaccinated yet. There's still a long road ahead.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/13/986411423/a-mystery-under-study-how-why-and-when-covid-vaccines-arent-fully-protective

[CooperS7777]

Lifting the mask mandate is crazy logic. New Hampshire is experiencing increases in COVID, and lifting the mask mandate in the face of increasing COVID is just plain wrong. Just exactly what is so wrong about wearing a mask?

Of course there are times when it isn't feasible, but, by and large, wearing a mask is hardly an imposition, especially in light of the protection is provides and in light of the possible ill effects (pun intended) of not wearing a mask.

People wear warm clothes in the winter to keep warm because being cold is not good for you, and people wear sun tan lotion in the summer to protect themselves because too much sun isn't good for you, so why not wear a mask when out and about to protect your respiratory system (and, to some extent, that of your neighbor).

The difference is, we don't have sun tan mandates in the summer time or sweatshirt mandates in the spring or fall. Everyone in the state is now eligible for the vaccine, and a lift of the mandate does not prevent anyone who is not comfortable with vaccination alone from continuing to wear a mask.

[WinnisquamZ]

Haven’t left the house today. Anyone visit local establishments with or without the mask?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

The difference is, we don't have sun tan mandates in the summer time or sweatshirt mandates in the spring or fall. Everyone in the state is now eligible for the vaccine, and a lift of the mandate does not prevent anyone who is not comfortable with vaccination alone from continuing to wear a mask.

Wearing a mask isn’t just about protecting yourself. It’s about protecting the community around you.

My wife made a good point. If a restaurant even decides to continue having its staff wear masks and now half the patrons won’t wear them we’re not going in with our masks on. And I guarantee we are not alone in our thinking. This lifting of mandate will hurt some businesses more than help.

Vaccines and masks are not a guarantee. But the more EVERYONE wears them, and the more that get vaccinated the better the statistics get and the sooner we’ll put the fire out.

My work place is in NH. Actually near the hot spots in NH. With mandate I felt safe occasionally going in. Everyone had masks and was being careful. Now I feel less safe and I won’t go in as often. It’s having the reverse effect lifting the mandate before the storm is over.

[Biggd]

I have no problem with still wearing a mask indoors but I will be happy to have it off my face when walking around out doors.
I have seasonal allergies and it's no fun when your nose is running and you have a mask on.

[TKD]

We will now go out and spend more. Sick of the paranoid nonsense and the hysteria. People can live in their bubble and should stay away if they don’t feel safe. Everyone’s free will. I’ll FINALLY be able to exercise mine again.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Seaplane Pilot]

We will now go out and spend more. Sick of the paranoid nonsense and the hysteria. People can live in their bubble and should stay away if they don’t feel safe. Everyone’s free will. I’ll FINALLY be able to exercise mine again.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Spot on. Anyone who wants to wear a mask has the right to do so. You can also wear a pink Tyvek suit if you wish, no problem with me. But stop trying to force mask guilt on those that have opposing views. I’ll wear my mask on Halloween, and that’s about it.

[Biggd]

I don't feel any less free when wearing a mask. :)

[FlyingScot]

Well said "Sick of the paranoid nonsense". not that you should not take some care but a lot of it is was overblown to fill up empty media pages and frighten people.

It was "overblown" to try to prevent 500,000 American deaths

[fatlazyless]

As 35th President of the U.S.A, 44-year old John F Kennedy, said on January 20, 1960 at his inauguration day acceptance speech: MASK not what your country can do for you - MASK what you can do for your country! ..... :D

President Kennedy went on to say: Yes, my fellow Americans ..... if ONE mask is a good thing ...... then wearing TWO masks is a very, very good thing! ....... so's let us continue forward with our mask program ...... here .... and wear a mask, indoors, at a store or a public venue with other people around and about ...... moving forward with the ongoing pandemic ...... is still needed and necessary to mask-up in public! ... :patriot:

[FlyingScot]

We will now go out and spend more. Sick of the paranoid nonsense and the hysteria. People can live in their bubble and should stay away if they don’t feel safe. Everyone’s free will. I’ll FINALLY be able to exercise mine again.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

One funny thing about "hysteria"--it seems like every time there is a first-time poster on the Forum, his first post is some sort of extremist position attacking sensible covid mitigation efforts. One might conclude that it is a regular poster who does not want to use his "real" fake name. Pretty lame

[mswlogo]

This should make the summer even busier!

Yeah. Busier hospitals, care givers and funeral homes for sure.

[MotorHead]

I am so sorry to wish this but I would LOVE to see one or all of you on a ventilator. I am sure you would change your tune.

[mswlogo]

It was "overblown" to try to prevent 500,000 American deaths

I’ll still wear a mask for those that think it was overblown even though they won’t do the same for me and my family.

[barefootbay]

5,800 "breakthrough" cases so far among those who have been fully vaccinated. 73% of the population hasn't even been vaccinated yet. There's still a long road ahead.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/13/986411423/a-mystery-under-study-how-why-and-when-covid-vaccines-arent-fully-protective

I think those numbers represent a really low percentage when one considers the millions of people who have been vaccinated.
There is no such thing in this life as a zero risk for anything. If you are fully vaccinated consider yourself immune because the odds are overwhelmingly high that you are.

[FlyingScot]

I think those numbers represent a really low percentage when one considers the millions of people who have been vaccinated.
There is no such thing in this life as a zero risk for anything. If you are fully vaccinated consider yourself immune because the odds are overwhelmingly high that you are.

Yes, vaccine is extraordinarily effective for most interactions, like restaurants, grocery stores, etc. But if you're interested in baseball games, rock concerts, and other mass events, protection is likely not nearly as good until many more people are vaxxed. I used to attend a couple of music events/month, I really miss them.

[Flylady]

A year ago the NH cry was keep out those MA-holes who will infect us....stay home!

Seasonal residents came earlier and stayed longer...supporting the local economies

Throughout the summer cases were primarily in larger metro areas and along the MA boarder.

Come fall...seasonals retreat, and anti maskers are more vocal in the Lakes Region.

By December many many more covid outbreaks in areas where mask mandates were ignored

By April 2021 small towns continue to see increases in covid cases.

So now that restaurants are opening, I am guessing they will continue to require masks as those out of state seasonals return, with masks and or vaccinated. It will be for the protection of their employees and business.

[Outdoorsman]

Haven’t left the house today. Anyone visit local establishments with or without the mask?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I went to Walmart, Shaws and a couple of other stores today. Though I wasn't really checking to see if people were wearing masks, for some reason I noticed a lot of people at Shaws that were NOT wearing masks.

I am thinking that I only noticed because it seemed odd to actually see peoples faces.

[TKD]

One funny thing about "hysteria"--it seems like every time there is a first-time poster on the Forum, his first post is some sort of extremist position attacking sensible covid mitigation efforts. One might conclude that it is a regular poster who does not want to use his "real" fake name. Pretty lame

Disagree with you and we are all extremists? Case in point - the hypocrisy is pathetic

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[swnoel]

Great news for sure... unfortunately it seems some that have been caged don't want to be free. For those fearing ... stay at your homes in hiding while the rest of the state goes about their business.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Great news for sure... unfortunately it seems some that have been caged don't want to be free. For those fearing ... stay at your homes in hiding while the rest of the state goes about their business.

What you’ve described is similar to the Stockholm Syndrome. Hard to believe.

[Flylady]

Perhaps there are more people that feel by wearing masks when appropriate will help the greater good to get back to normal. Also there is that variant factor which like so much about this virus is new and long term impact is really not known. Verses people that are only concerned about their personal choice and rights.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Perhaps there are more people that feel by wearing masks when appropriate will help the greater good to get back to normal. Also there is that variant factor which like so much about this virus is new and long term impact is really not known. Verses people that are only concerned about their personal choice and rights.

What if masks don’t actually serve the purpose for which you’ve been led to believe they do?

[Biggd]

If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.What if masks don’t actually serve the purpose for which you’ve been led to believe they do?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Seaplane Pilot]

If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?

[mswlogo]

Great news for sure... unfortunately it seems some that have been caged don't want to be free. For those fearing ... stay at your homes in hiding while the rest of the state goes about their business.

Wearing a mask isn't being caged.

Being on a ventilator and drugged to unconsciousness is being "caged".

Yes, I'd like to avoid the later :)

[Garcia]

Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?

Not so much a response but rather a question. I have been reading about this issue on the forum for a year. Over the course of the year, has anyone changed his/her mind about masks? Seems the same people are arguing the same points over and over.

[Biggd]

Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?I have a daughter that's an RN. She's exposed to Covid patients every day. She told me just tonight that she wears an N95 mask with a disposable paper mask over that along with a face shield. She replaces the paper mask every day and the N95 mask every other day. She's been doing this for the past year with on going negative Covid tests.
Either she is very lucky or she's doing everything right.
She also said we had a very lite flu season because of social distancing and masks this past winter.
The biggest issue is most people don't wear the proper mask or don't wear the one they have properly. Not all masks are created equal.
Medical facilities have been using N95 masks for ever, way before we saw Covid. But I guess they just wear them to look professional.:rolleye1:

[Seaplane Pilot]

Not so much a response but rather a question. I have been reading about this issue on the forum for a year. Over the course of the year, has anyone changed his/her mind about masks? Seems the same people are arguing the same points over and over.

Yes, I agree with you.

[FlyingScot]

Yes, I agree with you.

I agree too. No one seems to have changed their minds on masks and social distancing.

Although the people who argued against masks and social distancing a year ago were also saying this will blow over quickly without big public health consequences. With 500,000 dead, we can all see now that there have been gigantic public health consequences.

[LoveLakeLife]

I wonder how many of the 550K dead were mask-wearers.

It’s a flu.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[thinkxingu]

Masks work, there's no question about it at this point. And to minimize the almost 600k dead from Covid as "a flu" given that it's at least 10x deadlier even after incredibly aggressive mitigation methods were taken this last year is ridiculous.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the proof? There are plenty of esteemed medical professionals that have clearly stated that mask wearing is useless against coronavirus. And I’m sure your side can quote medical professionals that will state they do work. So who’s right and who’s not?

These type arguments are so stupid it’s ridiculous.

Ok, say mask wearers are wrong?
But we wear them to be overly cautious. What happens?
You wear a mask for 6 more months, waste $50, look silly and you can’t itch your nose so easy. All for nothing.

What if the mask wearers are right?
And we abandon wearing them now when we know they are effective.
Another 500K or more people die than could have been prevented.

Tough choice isn’t it?

[LoveLakeLife]

It’s not a tough choice at all. If you want to keep looking ridiculous and try to display for all your sense of virtuous self-regard, keep wearing the mask for the rest of your life. For normal people the choice is simple, especially those who’ve been vaccinated: act normal, ditch the silliness, and live life.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Is that all you're worried about, "looking ridiculous"? We all know that looking good is much more important than feeling good? It’s not a tough choice at all. If you want to keep looking ridiculous and try to display for all your sense of virtuous self-regard, keep wearing the mask for the rest of your life. For normal people the choice is simple, especially those who’ve been vaccinated: act normal, ditch the silliness, and live life.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[LoveLakeLife]

People get sick all the time. It’s a flu. Granted, worse than is typical, but a flu. Theatrics and feigned incredulity don’t make it otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MotorHead]

People get sick all the time. It’s a flu. Granted, worse than is typical, but a flu. Theatrics and feigned incredulity don’t make it otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

You can't fix stupid.

[Biggd]

Winter is flu season. Covid has no season. It's with us year round. People get sick all the time. It’s a flu. Granted, worse than is typical, but a flu. Theatrics and feigned incredulity don’t make it otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

Is that all you're worried about, "looking ridiculous"? We all know that looking good is much more important than feeling good?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Says a lot doesn't. Probably more worried about the tan lines.
Talk about living free. I could care less what it looks like. That's freedom.

They live in FEAR of what people think they look like.

[Newbiesaukee]

It’s not a tough choice at all. If you want to keep looking ridiculous and try to display for all your sense of virtuous self-regard, keep wearing the mask for the rest of your life. For normal people the choice is simple, especially those who’ve been vaccinated: act normal, ditch the silliness, and live life.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

If you’ve been vaccinated I don’t care what you do about masks. I don’t care about you call “silly” or what you consider “normal.” You are entitled to whatever you wish to think or say.

It’s the unvaccinated who are the problem. And it is the unvaccinated who may prevent any return to normalcy.

[FlyingScot]

If you’ve been vaccinated I don’t care what you do about masks. I don’t care about you call “silly” or what you consider “normal.” You are entitled to whatever you wish to think or say.

It’s the unvaccinated who are the problem. And it is the unvaccinated who may prevent any return to normalcy.

Sort of. I agree that a vaccinated person is of no risk to another vaccinated person, and that the real problem will be unvaccinated people.

But one issue you can see from this thread is that certain people are caused deep physical or psychic pain (haha) by doing anything that acknowledges covid's danger. This tears society between the covid-conscious and the deniers. And there are still 100MM(?) Americans waiting in line for vaccines. I'm happy to stay masked a while longer out of respect/support for those in line. Though in another couple of months, I'll have no patience for those too stupid to have protected themselves

[Newbiesaukee]

Sort of. I agree that a vaccinated person is of no risk to another vaccinated person, and that the real problem will be unvaccinated people.

But one issue you can see from this thread is that certain people are caused deep physical or psychic pain (haha) by doing anything that acknowledges covid's danger. This tears society between the covid-conscious and the deniers. And there are still 100MM(?) Americans waiting in line for vaccines. I'm happy to stay masked a while longer out of respect/support for those in line. Though in another couple of months, I'll have no patience for those too stupid to have protected themselves

I agree with you. But, I inferred from LoveLakeLife that he/she was not against vaccination and believed it had value. Perhaps LLL is vaccinated. If all the anti-maskers were vaccinated I don’t care as much about the rest of the stuff.

I also believe that masks do have a place and still wear them even after vaccinated. But this forum doesn’t need another discussion to persuade the unpersuadable.

[LoveLakeLife]

Yes I’m vaccinated. Everyone should get vaccinated. But I never wore or owned a mask. I lived. And I had gotten sick I would have lived.

P.S. it’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less. As far as “you can’t fix stupid” goes, apparently trite cliches can’t be avoided by the unoriginal.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MotorHead]

Yes I’m vaccinated. Everyone should get vaccinated. But I never wore or owned a mask. I lived. And I had gotten sick I would have lived.

P.S. it’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less. As far as “you can’t fix stupid” goes, apparently trite cliches can’t be avoided by the unoriginal.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/794/screenshots/7889/cry.jpg?compress=1&resize=400x300

[Biggd]

You may think you don't look ridiculous but you are proving otherwise.Yes I’m vaccinated. Everyone should get vaccinated. But I never wore or owned a mask. I lived. And I had gotten sick I would have lived.

P.S. it’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less. As far as “you can’t fix stupid” goes, apparently trite cliches can’t be avoided by the unoriginal.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[jbolty]

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems. Early on even Saint Fauci stated in an accidentaly moment of honesty that masks could do more harm than good becasue people constantly fidgit with them, touch their face a lot, wear them wrong and reuse them too much. This makes logical common sense and there is science to back it up. I challenge anyone to come up with an actual scientific study showing masks do any good in public. "it can't hurt" is not science.

A Stanford/National institute of health study details the actual facts. This will not get wide publication because the power structure wants masks to be an object of control as well as a handy thing to blame any surge in cases on. Never mind that the southern border is wide open with untested thousands flooding over and then being let loose or transported around the country. No, cases are up because people are not wearing masks. Of course the truthfulness of the actual numbers is another topic for a different discussion.

read the whole thing here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/


summary

Many countries across the globe utilized medical and non-medical facemasks as non-pharmaceutical intervention for reducing the transmission and infectivity of coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19). Although, scientific evidence supporting facemasks’ efficacy is lacking, adverse physiological, psychological and health effects are established. Is has been hypothesized that facemasks have compromised safety and efficacy profile and should be avoided from use. The current article comprehensively summarizes scientific evidences with respect to wearing facemasks in the COVID-19 era, providing prosper information for public health and decisions making.

The study concludes

The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks. Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.

[thinkxingu]

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems. Early on even Saint Fauci stated in an accidentaly moment of honesty that masks could do more harm than good becasue people constantly fidgit with them, touch their face a lot, wear them wrong and reuse them too much. This makes logical common sense and there is science to back it up. I challenge anyone to come up with an actual scientific study showing masks do any good in public. "it can't hurt" is not science.

A Stanford/National institute of health study details the actual facts. This will not get wide publication because the power structure wants masks to be an object of control as well as a handy thing to blame any surge in cases on. Never mind that the southern border is wide open with untested thousands flooding over and then being let loose or transported around the country. No, cases are up because people are not wearing masks. Of course the truthfulness of the actual numbers is another topic for a different discussion.

read the whole thing here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/


summary



The study concludesA quick search for that author/article came up with—this is awesome—a "how-to" thread on teaching students steps to spot misleading/deceptive/untrue resources.

https://www.amgenbiotechexperience.com/seeing-not-necessarily-believing

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[jbolty]

A quick search for that author/article came up with—this is awesome—a "how-to" thread on teaching students steps to spot misleading/deceptive/untrue resources.

https://www.amgenbiotechexperience.com/seeing-not-necessarily-believing

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

It's from a government website. Or do you only beleve the government when it suits you?

[thinkxingu]

It's from a government website. Or do you only beleve the government when it suits you?I research most things, especially articles with "hypothesis" in the title that go against the WHO, CDC, and most every other health/science organization.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[FlyingScot]

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmissions

You must have missed Think's post #44 above--he links to an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assoc that documents the evidence

[Flylady]

So for those who do not believe they do not work...would you allow your dentist to do work on you without a mask? How about have a minor or major surgery procedure? Would you be OK with your medical team not wearing a mask?

One thing there is no shortage of are unfounded facts! Reality is the virus, and vaccines are not old enough to really know what the overall long run effects are. How would you feel if you are vaccinated, and thus move around freely and unknowingly are exposed to the virus and while you may not feel any symptoms you could have it and spread it. No big deal until people around who for some reason may not be able to be vaccinated get ill and die!

Then again there are those that are considerate of others and those that only care about themselves. Each has the freedom to decide which group they wish to belong.

[LIforrelaxin]

So for those who do not believe they do not work...would you allow your dentist to do work on you without a mask? How about have a minor or major surgery procedure? Would you be OK with your medical team not wearing a mask?

One thing there is no shortage of are unfounded facts! Reality is the virus, and vaccines are not old enough to really know what the overall long run effects are. How would you feel if you are vaccinated, and thus move around freely and unknowingly are exposed to the virus and while you may not feel any symptoms you could have it and spread it. No big deal until people around who for some reason may not be able to be vaccinated get ill and die!

Then again there are those that are considerate of others and those that only care about themselves. Each has the freedom to decide which group they wish to belong.

There is a big difference in wearing a mask when in close proximity to someone such as a dentist or surgeon working on the human body.... And wearing a mask out in public..... I think Mask have a time and place, but when I am walking outside and not in close proximity to others, I don't believe it does any good.

But that is just my opinion..... I think if we could turn back time, and not mandate mask, we would find the trajectory of the future doesn't change much. The biggest thing that was done to help stop the spread, was social distancing, and people working from home....

Mask IMHO, are just a feel good measure.... nothing more nothing less.

[jbolty]

You must have missed Think's post #44 above--he links to an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assoc that documents the evidence

so what? AMA is no more believeable than anyone else. Common sense says masks paper masks on untrained people are stupid. CDC and WHO have not demonstrated and reason to trust them either.

[LoveLakeLife]

Again we differ. Use your head and think, don’t “feel”. And it’s “might think” not “may think.”


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[jbolty]

Again we differ. Use your head and think, don’t “feel”. And it’s “might think” not “may think.”


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

stuff your condescension

[MotorHead]

I hope Webmaster kills this thread before it gets out of hand.

[LoveLakeLife]

I wasn’t being condescending, just helpful. I wonder how many mask people are still wearing gloves and spraying groceries? lol. If not, why not?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[LoveLakeLife]

We are all forum friends, just with varying outlooks and opinions. I have no doubt we would all have a great time together if the forum fests were to begin again. I enjoy everyone on here.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Flylady]

There is a big difference in wearing a mask when in close proximity to someone such as a dentist or surgeon working on the human body.... And wearing a mask out in public..... I think Mask have a time and place, but when I am walking outside and not in close proximity to others, I don't believe it does any good.

But that is just my opinion..... I think if we could turn back time, and not mandate mask, we would find the trajectory of the future doesn't change much. The biggest thing that was done to help stop the spread, was social distancing, and people working from home....

Mask IMHO, are just a feel good measure.... nothing more nothing less.

I should have been more specific. I was referring to wearing masks when inside and close to others, not outside where it is easy to social distance.

[jbolty]

Again we differ. Use your head and think, don’t “feel”. And it’s “might think” not “may think.”


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I'm sorry, not called for.

[Outdoorsman]

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems.

The study concludes

I am no scientist but I have been in plenty of stores around the Lakes Region and otherwise where there have been people sneezing, coughing etc with no regard for anyone. Even those with "a cold" that are too ignorant to cover their mouth..... I don't need science to tell me that is not healthy for anyone around them, let alone disgusting.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I wasn’t being condescending, just helpful. I wonder how many mask people are still wearing gloves and spraying groceries? lol. If not, why not?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Having read several of your recent posts, it is very hard to believe that your intentions were to be helpful. Perception is important, and mine is that you wanted to make others look less smart/important than you.....not generally suggested as a way to make forum friends. JMHO

[mswlogo]

We should all realize we all want the same thing. We all want to get back to "normal" ASAP. Can we all agree on that?

I think one thing that really gets under peoples skin is comments of it's just a bad flu and overblown. A lot of people have had direct loved ones affected and it's a pretty horrible thing. You'd have to be living under rock to seriously think this is just a bad flu. It's 10x worse. And the Flu is not anything to sneeze at (no pun intended). It hits some countries a lot harder than others due to poor care.

Another thing I think is being confused is the TYPE of masks being referenced.

When this started I was using an N95 type mask (without the Valve). They were pretty tough to use for long periods or if you exerted yourself.

Everyone was saying, how can you breath in that. I couldn't :) Finally I switched to the "Surgical" masks. These are much more loose fitting. And what you mostly see these days in public. They don't seal as good but they allow you to breath easier and don't have some of the negative effects of the tight fitting N95 type masks. The Pro's outweigh the negatives (for this application, public daily use). They basically reduce the odds of you sucking in a direct hit or you sending one out. Not a guarantee at all. They have been used for decades.

Part of the reason the WHO were saying not to use "masks" by the general population is because N95 were in short supply. And that's partly what they were referring to. You need to rotate them a lot to warrant them and reserve them for direct contact situations.

You are seeing some references that a in the extremes. Like the public population using N95 or "transmission" tests using the looser fitting surgical mask with "immersed" exposure.

This is a nice summary that I don't think is biased, current and references The WHO and CDC recommendations.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

I will say, this is the first winter I can remember in eons I didn't get an inevitable cold. Usually passes from one co-worker to another. It might be a 2 day sniffle or 2 weeks of hacking once or twice a winter. I had nothing this winter. And it was not just masks of course. All the social distancing measures contributed to that.

[FlyingScot]

so what? AMA is no more believeable than anyone else. Common sense says masks paper masks on untrained people are stupid. CDC and WHO have not demonstrated and reason to trust them either.

You said "not a hint of any science" supporting masks. Think gives you much more than a hint--he provides a link to one of the leading medical journals in the world.

Your first post was flat out wrong. Now, instead of acknowledging that and saying thanks for the "hint", you move the goal posts and go to the ridiculous assertion that a person is no better off with leading doctors than they would be with anyone else.

[Biggd]

You don't really get the seriousness of it until it affects you personally and I don't wish that on anyone.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[thinkxingu]

You don't really get the seriousness of it until it affects you personally and I don't wish that on anyone.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I agree completely. It wasn't really until a few months ago that my family and friend circle got hit, and I felt like things were closing in as they missed weeks of work, were rushed to hospitals, and, in my MIL's case, died. My best friend and his wife are still experiencing taste and smell loss, headaches, and fatigue...4 weeks after having tested positive.

Those are all enough reasons for me to wear a mask when around people/indoors.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[jbolty]

You said "not a hint of any science" supporting masks. Think gives you much more than a hint--he provides a link to one of the leading medical journals in the world.

Your first post was flat out wrong. Now, instead of acknowledging that and saying thanks for the "hint", you move the goal posts and go to the ridiculous assertion that a person is no better off with leading doctors than they would be with anyone else.

Top doctors and organizations disagree. You believe the ones that support you position and I do the same. But, I also have common sense on my side and recognize that the powers want to keep their boot on our neck as long as possible and will do or say anything to keep that control no matter what.

[mswlogo]

I agree completely. It wasn't really until a few months ago that my family and friend circle got hit, and I felt like things were closing in as they missed weeks of work, were rushed to hospitals, and, in my MIL's case, died. My best friend and his wife are still experiencing taste and smell loss, headaches, and fatigue...4 weeks after having tested positive.

Those are all enough reasons for me to wear a mask when around people/indoors.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Right. It hit pretty close to home when my sister in law got it bad. She’s been drugged unconscious for weeks on a ventilator. She is now breathing on her own. She can’t feel or move anything from the neck down. This is what “recovering” from COVID looks like for some. I know more people with impairments from COVID than died from COVID.

The number of people that have “recovered” but with serious degradation in the quality life has not been tallied yet. But it could be huge and will cost society a huge burden to support them. This is what might bankrupt the country in the long run. Even if COVID disappeared today. The damage in its wake is far beyond just the deaths.

My #1 reason for wearing a mask is to not be a burden on society.

[LoveLakeLife]

Sue, perception of the message is beyond the speaker’s control because it is filtered through the reader’s experience and biases. Intent is all that matters and I know the sincerity of my intent. Here’s to a great upcoming summer.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[ApS]

I wear a mask to signal others to keep their distance. :look:

This virus is SUB-microscopic: which means the mask is more comparatively porus to this virus than a chain link fence! (And you can't see it, even with a conventional microscope).

Whether or not you're a carrier, a wet sneeze into your mask should tell you volumes.

[thinkxingu]

I wear a mask to signal others to keep their distance. :look:

This virus is SUB-microscopic: which means the mask is more comparatively porus to this virus than a chain link fence! (And you can't see it, even with a conventional microscope).

Whether or not you're a carrier, a wet sneeze into your mask should tell you volumes.The size of the particles vs. mask has been addressed for months and is included in the article I posted above, along with numerous experiments in various settings. In short: the virus particles require aerosols to spread. Aerosols get caught up/minimized by masks, some masks doing a better job than others but all having some impact. Added to physical distancing, increased air filtration, and limited human saturation, masks reduce the spread of Covid.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

As someone else said, anyone can find studies and artilcles to support which side of the fence you're on. I think the biggest difference is some people care about the greater good and others are only concerned about themselves and what they feel is being taken away from them.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Seaplane Pilot]

As someone else said, anyone can find studies and artilcles to support which side of the fence you're on. I think the biggest difference is some people care about the greater good and others are only concerned about themselves and what they feel is being taken away from them.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

[thinkxingu]

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers follow science and accept that a little bit of give creates a better whole for everyone.

Anti-maskers scoff at science and embrace conspiracy theory in the name of justifying whatever it is they want at the moment.

I wear a mask in public because I accept that my freedom doesn't have the right to infringe on others'.

I also believe, however, that businesses, and other private institutions, should be able to choose how they approach masks (or ANY behavior) in terms of what's best for their businesses and customers.

I equate Covid to smoking. You have a right to smoke, but your smoking should not affect my freedom to breathe fresh air. And, when people are in public, the good of the whole supercedes the wishes of the one.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Garcia]

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

Couldn't disagree more. There is such a lack of tolerance, respect, dialogue, and an unwillingness to listen on both sides of this issue (and so many similar ones) that there is plenty of opportunity to spread the blame around nice and equally. Neither side can claim the high ground of tolerance. instead, both are working hard to sink as low as possible.

[DEJ]

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

Best post in this entire thread IMO. The post that followed it is a perfect example of what you said.

[MotorHead]

What is the thought (if any) process of Anti-maskers?

I don't give a s**t if everyone dies because of my stupidity as long as I look good? It is all fake news because orange buffoon said so.

I don’t get it.

[joey2665]

What is the thought (if any) process of Anti-maskers?

I don't give a s**t if everyone dies because of my stupidity as long as I look good? It is all fake news because orange buffoon said so.

I don’t get it.

Simple if you are worried your mask protects you as does your vaccination. If I don’t wear a mask it’s my choice my risk.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[DEJ]

What is the thought (if any) process of Anti-maskers?

I don't give a s**t if everyone dies because of my stupidity as long as I look good? It is all fake news because orange buffoon said so.

I don’t get it.

No need to bring politics into this. The anti-maskers have their opinion, the maskers have their opinion. Just leave it at that because all this childish banter is not going to change anyone's mind.

[MotorHead]

Simple if you are worried your mask protects you as does your vaccination. If I don’t wear a mask it’s my choice my risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

That is the problem.
By not wearing your mask, you are jeopardising my life and increasing my chances of catching the virus.

[FlyingScot]

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

Pro-maskers are continually pushing science and public health.

Anti-maskers are the same people who were covid-deniers a year ago. Now that the data is overwhelming that they were wrong, they have switched to personal attacks. (like "Karen")

Please go back, read your old posts and your compatriots' old posts. Then let us know why you have any credibility at all on covid today

[MotorHead]

https://www.nme.com/news/music/ted-nugent-has-caught-covid-19-after-calling-it-not-a-real-pandemic-2924035

I feel soooooooo sad for Ted :(

[DEJ]

Pro-maskers are continually pushing science and public health.

Anti-maskers are the same people who were covid-deniers a year ago. Now that the data is overwhelming that they were wrong, they have switched to personal attacks. (like "Karen")

Please go back, read your old posts and your compatriots' old posts. Then let us know why you have any credibility at all on covid today

That's your opinion flyingscot. Obviously the anti maskers do not share your opinion. Why is it so important that you and others try to beat them into submission for believing what they do? Is it an ego thing? I just do not get it.

[joey2665]

That is the problem.
By not wearing your mask, you are jeopardising my life and increasing my chances of catching the virus.

The only way I am jeopardizing you if if you believe the masks and vaccine dont work. It you are worried then protect yourself that is your responsibility, my not wearing a mask has NO affect on you just me if I want to take that risk.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Pro-maskers are continually pushing science and public health.

Anti-maskers are the same people who were covid-deniers a year ago. Now that the data is overwhelming that they were wrong, they have switched to personal attacks. (like "Karen")

Please go back, read your old posts and your compatriots' old posts. Then let us know why you have any credibility at all on covid today

Yup, as usual, you’re right and everyone else is wrong. :rolleye1:

[WinnisquamZ]

16916


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MotorHead]

I will discuss the benefits of wearing a mask with you once you show me a copy of your degree in epidemiology. Until then, you are just a waste of my time.

[jbolty]

I will discuss the benefits of wearing a mask with you once you show me a copy of your degree in epidemiology. Until then, you are just a waste of my time.

I guess I missed where you posted your degree...

[joey2665]

I will discuss the benefits of wearing a mask with you once you show me a copy of your degree in epidemiology. Until then, you are just a waste of my time.

As you are wasting mine. My mask wearing has NO benefit to you if you are wearing yours (according to your science) unless again you do not believe your science. FYI I would love to see your epidermist certificate

[MotorHead]

Sorry, I take that back.

I found a copy of your diploma.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EUyyrJV7L._AC_.jpg

[jbolty]

so it's meme war now?

[FlyingScot]

That's your opinion flyingscot. Obviously the anti maskers do not share your opinion. Why is it so important that you and others try to beat them into submission for believing what they do? Is it an ego thing? I just do not get it.

Since you asked--I worry that you and other covid deniers have been inundated with misinformation on the internet, and are now pushing that same misinformation here. I feel compelled to call out the misinformation

[Bear Islander]

When I see people not wearing a mask I wonder... Do they not have a doctor? Do they ignore their doctor?

During a recent check up I asked my doctor what I should do about Covid. His answer "wear a mask, social distance, wash hands and get vaccinated asap."

If anybody answers that their doctor told them the opposite, quite frankly, I don't believe you.

[jbolty]

Since you asked--I worry that you and other covid deniers have been inundated with misinformation on the internet, and are now pushing that same misinformation here. I feel compelled to call out the misinformation

Because only you have been given the revealed truth and all the rest of us are too stupid to see your infinate wisdom. Or something.

Don't know how we have been able to stumble through life without your guidance.

[thinkxingu]

Hahahaha!

16918

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[joey2665]

Sorry, I take that back.

I found a copy of your diploma.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EUyyrJV7L._AC_.jpg

My opinion certainly has nothing to do with who is or was the president. I am intelligent enough to do my own research and form my own opinions without the help of the media or politicians. Unlike yourself.

[trfour]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/new-covid-19-variant-just-found-in-this-state-scientists-say/ar-BB1fRjxJ?ocid=msedgntp

[DEJ]

Since you asked--I worry that you and other covid deniers have been inundated with misinformation on the internet, and are now pushing that same misinformation here. I feel compelled to call out the misinformation

Please show me where I once stated my opinion on this subject in this thread or for that matter I am a covid denier? Since you will not be able to you are assuming something on my behalf. You know what the first three letters of assume refer to? I rest my case. It will be interesting to watch how you twist this to support your agenda. :)

[gravy boat]

That is the problem.
By not wearing your mask, you are jeopardising my life and increasing my chances of catching the virus.

Not if he/she follows the rules and stays at least 6 feet away from people. After all, that is what the government has told us will work, right? If you can't stay 6 feet apart then wear a mask. So we've been told for over a year.

But the question we should be asking is do the vaccines actually WORK?
If vaccinated then you SHOULD be protected against getting the virus (maybe not 100%, but a high percentage of protection)...and you don't "shed" or "spread" if you don't have the virus.

But if we are told by the "experts" who are pushing the vaccines that we should continue to do exactly as we have been for the last year even after being vaccinated (mask up, social distance, etc.), then someone is selling us a bill of goods...or they fear not being reelected.

It works or it doesn't. And I have a hard time believing that the experts we have all been listening to don't know by now. They are, after all, the "experts."

[Biggd]

This thread is getting a little out of control. Lifting of the mask mandate is really for outdoors which is fine because it's easier to keep your distance from people
Most indoor businesses will still require you to wear a mask. If you can't abide by those rules then don't go in. The cost of closing for 2 weeks if an employee gets Covid or comes in contact, far out weighs the cost of losing a few customers that refuse to wear masks.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[jbolty]

Not if he/she follows the rules and stays at least 6 feet away from people. After all, that is what the government has told us will work, right? If you can't stay 6 feet apart then wear a mask. So we've been told for over a year.

But the question we should be asking is do the vaccines actually WORK?
If vaccinated then you SHOULD be protected against getting the virus (maybe not 100%, but a high percentage of protection)...and you don't "shed" or "spread" if you don't have the virus.

But if we are told by the "experts" who are pushing the vaccines that we should continue to do exactly as we have been for the last year even after being vaccinated (mask up, social distance, etc.), then someone is selling us a bill of goods...or they fear not being reelected.

It works or it doesn't. And I have a hard time believing that the experts we have all been listening to don't know by now. They are, after all, the "experts."

It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.

--Thomas Sowell

[Pricestavern]

So...the whole world has been duped into wearing masks? The governments of the world and their peoples have been duped by a massive fraud of an unprecedented scale? Masks don't work. Yet you are required to wear them in many countries around the world. And when I say 'required' I mean you are fined heavily for not wearing one. Seems a tad aggressive for something that has 'no basis in science' and has been 'proven' not to work or be 'worth it'. But I guess if Tucker says it, than it must be so.

[gravy boat]

So...the whole world has been duped into wearing masks? The governments of the world and their peoples have been duped by a massive fraud of an unprecedented scale? Masks don't work. Yet you are required to wear them in many countries around the world. And when I say 'required' I mean you are fined heavily for not wearing one. Seems a tad aggressive for something that has 'no basis in science' and has been 'proven' not to work or be 'worth it'. But I guess if Tucker says it, than it must be so.

Tucker who?

Oh, that's right -- I have a different viewpoint on this subject so I must be, well -- governed by a media personality and ignorant in general.

Aren't you the least bit skeptical?

And for the record, I don't watch Tucker or any other "news" channels in the evenings. No network, either. Usually I am watching something on BritBox or AmazonPrime by 7 pm.

[FlyingScot]

Please show me where I once stated my opinion on this subject in this thread or for that matter I am a covid denier? Since you will not be able to you are assuming something on my behalf. You know what the first three letters of assume refer to? I rest my case. It will be interesting to watch how you twist this to support your agenda. :)

On this thread, I was referring to jbolty. You jumping in on jbolty's behalf led me to think you support his positions.

His misinformation was that there was not a hint of scientific evidence that supports masks, and he persisted in this even after being shown by Think much more than a hint. He then went on to assert that articles published in a leading medical journal are no more valid than any other opinion. This fundamental denial of science is both sad and dangerous

[DEJ]

On this thread, I was referring to jbolty. You jumping in on jbolty's behalf led me to think you support his positions.

You thought wrong.

[TKD]

Being new to this forum and getting attacked on my very first post on this topic makes me wonder what you folks do all day? Relax. Life is good. Wow! This is like being with my radicalized liberal college aged nieces over the holidays. Disagree with them and they try to shame you to death.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[WinnisquamZ]

Being new to this forum and getting attacked on my very first post on this topic makes me wonder what you folks do all day? Relax. Life is good. Wow! This is like being with my radicalized liberal college aged nieces over the holidays. Disagree with them and they try to shame you to death.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Welcome. Not all of us here are Karens. Many others monitor and shake their heads. This forum can be enlightening, entertaining, and informative. Enjoy

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[4 for Boating]

So at what point will masks no longer be needed?
What criteria is to be used to say - you don't have to wear one any longer?

Is it when each and every US citizen has been offered the vaccine?
We seem to be getting close to that point as some states are already offering to anyone over 16 and have open appointments.

I'm guessing that some will never get the vaccine - are we to wear masks for those that by their own choice, choose not to get it?

Truth be told - I'm a mask wearer (easy thing to do at least for me) but just curious, what are the specific set of events or metric's that will change this dynamic?

[gillygirl]

I think the biggest difference is as follows:

Pro-maskers: Always pushing their positions and agendas on everyone, including those that have different beliefs about mask wearing. It’s clear that the “Karens” of society are pro-maskers, and are the ones getting in other people’s faces when they are not wearing a mask. How many reports have you heard about anti-maskers screaming at people for wearing masks? That’s right, zero is the answer.

Anti-maskers: This group has no problem with the pro-maskers wearing masks wherever and whenever they want. What they do have a problem with is the pro-maskers getting in their faces about mask wearing, all under the guise of “love thy neighbor” and compliance for “the greater good”. If the pro-maskers believe that the masks actually work, that’s great. Keep wearing them, but for God’s sake, please leave the rest of us alone. We don’t get in your face, so stay the hell out of our faces. The guilt angle about mask wearing will never work.

You have to stop speaking in absolutes. You just lose your credibility. This is one of dozens of videos I’ve seen of maskless people losing their minds when asked to put one on by a retail establishment. Something they have the right to do. Stop acting like anti-maskers are angels.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/20/maskless-texas-woman-arrested-at-nordstrom-rack-viral-videokaren-on-steroids-maskless-texas-woman-arrested-at-nordstrom-rack/

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[gillygirl]

Please show me where I once stated my opinion on this subject in this thread or for that matter I am a covid denier? Since you will not be able to you are assuming something on my behalf. You know what the first three letters of assume refer to? I rest my case. It will be interesting to watch how you twist this to support your agenda. :)

Post #88 certainly seems to confirm your inclination to one side.

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[FlyingScot]

Being new to this forum and getting attacked on my very first post on this topic makes me wonder what you folks do all day? Relax. Life is good. Wow! This is like being with my radicalized liberal college aged nieces over the holidays. Disagree with them and they try to shame you to death.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Your first post attacked other people as paranoid and hysterical

[gillygirl]

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems. Early on even Saint Fauci stated in an accidentaly moment of honesty that masks could do more harm than good becasue people constantly fidgit with them, touch their face a lot, wear them wrong and reuse them too much. This makes logical common sense and there is science to back it up. I challenge anyone to come up with an actual scientific study showing masks do any good in public. "it can't hurt" is not science.

A Stanford/National institute of health study details the actual facts. This will not get wide publication because the power structure wants masks to be an object of control as well as a handy thing to blame any surge in cases on. Never mind that the southern border is wide open with untested thousands flooding over and then being let loose or transported around the country. No, cases are up because people are not wearing masks. Of course the truthfulness of the actual numbers is another topic for a different discussion.

read the whole thing here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

summary

The study concludes

And others claim the hypotheses in the article false. Back to square one.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/16/diamond-and-silk/medical-hypotheses-journal-article-lacks-evidence-/

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

The only way I am jeopardizing you if if you believe the masks and vaccine dont work. It you are worried then protect yourself that is your responsibility, my not wearing a mask has NO affect on you just me if I want to take that risk.

If we can't get through this kind of warped logic, then let's just forget it.

It's all statistics.

If I'm vaccinated you are LESS likely to infect me (whether you wear a mask or not).
If I'm vaccinated and wear a mask you're EVEN LESS likely to infect me, but you still can !!!
If we are both vaccinated and both wear mask those are the BEST ODDS of infecting each other. But it's still possible.

Sure the odds are low. But what if we are passing that new strain and it gets into a community that has less protection. It mutates and then comes BACK and our vaccine no longer work.

NOTHING is 100%

We have no idea how effective the vaccines are on ALL the new strains out there now and the NEW ones that WILL come.

It's like a smoldering fire. After the fire is "Out" you drown it with more water and wait an hour to make sure it's out. With COVID there are cinders still burning with tons of fuel left. Don't walk away now and assume it will burn out. It MIGHT, but it might not. Why take ANY chance?

This is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's about ALL of US.

If we use EVERY thing in our power, the sooner and more likely we can get it under control.

If you decide to get on the highway with no brakes. Are you risking your life or everyones? This is no different. What you do, does effect others.
And if you do get sick you burden OUR hospitals and our tax dollars to try and save you.

You live in a COMMON WEALTH and we are in this TOGETHER whether you like it or not.

[DEJ]

Post #88 certainly seems to confirm your inclination to one side.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Your assumption is incorrect.

[TKD]

Your first post attacked other people as paranoid and hysterical

Funny. God bless you Johnny Lawrence. Again, relax and go enjoy life.

Signed Daniel San

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Seaplane Pilot]

You have to stop speaking in absolutes. You just lose your credibility. This is one of dozens of videos I’ve seen of maskless people losing their minds when asked to put one on by a retail establishment. Something they have the right to do. Stop acting like anti-maskers are angels.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/20/maskless-texas-woman-arrested-at-nordstrom-rack-viral-videokaren-on-steroids-maskless-texas-woman-arrested-at-nordstrom-rack/


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Nobody said that people who are against mask wearing are angels - nothing of the sort. What I said was that the pro-maskers are always pushing their beliefs and agendas on the anti-maskers. Your video didn’t show any indication of this anti-mask person forcing her beliefs on others. She didn’t want to wear a mask, but lost her cool. Big difference.

And oh, by the way, here’s an excellent article demonstrating why masks don’t work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

[thinkxingu]

Nobody said that people who are against mask wearing are angels - nothing of the sort. What I said was that the pro-maskers are always pushing their beliefs and agendas on the anti-maskers. Your video didn’t show any indication of this anti-mask person forcing her beliefs on others. She didn’t want to wear a mask, but lost her cool. Big difference.

And oh, by the way, here’s an excellent article demonstrating why masks don’t work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policyDo any of you anti-maskers ever research your "sources"? I mean, Jesus Christ this is bad:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343263629_A_Complete_Debunking_of_Denis_Rancourt's _Mask_Don't_Work

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[DEJ]

For Christ sake, no minds are going to be changed here no matter what poll or study is dredged up from the internet.

[thinkxingu]

For Christ sake, no minds are going to be changed here no matter what poll or study is dredged up from the internet.Agreed, but c'mon—at least post reasonably researched support to add to the conversation. Or is that even too much to ask in '21?

Given that "alternative facts" is a thing, perhaps so.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MotorHead]

For Christ sake, no minds are going to be changed here no matter what poll or study is dredged up from the internet.

100% agreed, hence my earlier comment.

YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

https://i.imgflip.com/211ktj.jpg

[DEJ]

Agreed, but c'mon—at least post reasonably researched support to add to the conversation. Or is that even too much to ask in '21?

Given that "alternative facts" is a thing, perhaps so.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Perhaps some think the research they did was reasonable. That is their right. Just because some disagree there is no need to try and shame them or belittle them. This goes for both sides of this or any other issue.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Do any of you anti-maskers ever research your "sources"? I mean, Jesus Christ this is bad:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343263629_A_Complete_Debunking_of_Denis_Rancourt's _Mask_Don't_Work

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Liberals need to update their playbook. The current playbook is outdated and predictable, and just consists of insulting, degrading, disparaging and discrediting. (Pssssssst....masks do not prevent the spread of viruses)

[gillygirl]

Your assumption is incorrect.

It’s a deduction, not an assumption.

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[gillygirl]

Nobody said that people who are against mask wearing are angels - nothing of the sort. What I said was that the pro-maskers are always pushing their beliefs and agendas on the anti-maskers. Your video didn’t show any indication of this anti-mask person forcing her beliefs on others. She didn’t want to wear a mask, but lost her cool. Big difference.

And oh, by the way, here’s an excellent article demonstrating why masks don’t work: https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

By reacting like a child throwing a tantrum, any anti-masker is pushing their belief and agenda on those around them. Why can’t they just put one on or leave the establishment? Maybe I should go into businesses and light up a cigarette, then throw a tantrum when they ask me to put it out or leave.

Not an excellent article, but an example of pseudoscience. Picking quotes out of the broader context within an article that seem to prove ones opinion is not science. I suggest you fact check your sources.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/logical-take/202007/yes-masks-work-debunking-the-pseudoscience


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[DEJ]

It’s a deduction, not an assumption.

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Your deduction is incorrect.

[joey2665]

By reacting like a child throwing a tantrum, any anti-masker is pushing their belief and agenda on those around them. Why can’t they just put one on or leave the establishment? Maybe I should go into businesses and light up a cigarette, then throw a tantrum when they ask me to put it out or leave.

Not an excellent article, but an example of pseudoscience. Picking quotes out of the broader context within an article that seem to prove ones opinion is not science. I suggest you fact check your sources.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/logical-take/202007/yes-masks-work-debunking-the-pseudoscience


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I think you are making a huge assumption here. Many people like myself that do not agree with wearing masks either do not patron the establishment that requires masks or like I do many times, if the business requires masks I will wear them (this is america and as business owners it this their choice not set up or not set up mask requirements, also taking into account government guidelines) if they do not require them I do not wear them. I am not pushing an agenda by not wearing my mask were I am not required as I do not think you are if you wear it everywhere, that is you choice

[MotorHead]

https://nypost.com/2021/04/20/maskless-texas-woman-arrested-at-nordstrom-rack-viral-videokaren-on-steroids-maskless-texas-woman-arrested-at-nordstrom-rack/

I wonder if she posts on this website ?

[WinnisquamZ]

One more with your morning coffee. Can’t smoke with a mask on. Is it smoking or no mask?

https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2021/04/smoking-and-covid-19-again.html


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[gillygirl]

I think you are making a huge assumption here. Many people like myself that do not agree with wearing masks either do not patron the establishment that requires masks or like I do many times, if the business requires masks I will wear them (this is america and as business owners it this their choice not set up or not set up mask requirements, also taking into account government guidelines) if they do not require them I do not wear them. I am not pushing an agenda by not wearing my mask were I am not required as I do not think you are if you wear it everywhere, that is you choice

My first sentence clearly states I’m referring to the anti-maskers who throw tantrums. I have no issue with anti-maskers who calmly go about their business. It’s impossible to know if someone is wearing a mask because they want to or because they have to. I don’t confront people who aren’t wearing masks when I’m out shopping because I really don’t care, unless they’re standing way too close. Then they get the hairy eyeball. But I did that pre-Covid because if someone is standing within a foot of me in a store, I question their motives.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Seaplane Pilot]

By reacting like a child throwing a tantrum, any anti-masker is pushing their belief and agenda on those around them. Why can’t they just put one on or leave the establishment? Maybe I should go into businesses and light up a cigarette, then throw a tantrum when they ask me to put it out or leave.

Not an excellent article, but an example of pseudoscience. Picking quotes out of the broader context within an article that seem to prove ones opinion is not science. I suggest you fact check your sources.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/logical-take/202007/yes-masks-work-debunking-the-pseudoscience


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I agree on one of your points. No tantrums necessary. If you don't want to wear a mask, just move on. But on the other hand, you support my point. Why do pro-masker Karens get in the faces of anti-maskers? Leave us alone.

Now, about your analogy on smoking - this makes no sense. If you had said that you went into an establishment, lit up a cigarette and tried to force everyone else to smoke, then it would have been a valid analogy to what the pro-maskers are doing.

[gillygirl]

I agree on one of your points. No tantrums necessary. If you don't want to wear a mask, just move on. But on the other hand, you support my point. Why do pro-masker Karens get in the faces of anti-maskers? Leave us alone.

Now, about your analogy on smoking - this makes no sense. If you had said that you went into an establishment, lit up a cigarette and tried to force everyone else to smoke, then it would have been a valid analogy to what the pro-maskers are doing.

Then we agree there is no need for tantrums from either side. But let’s be clear, an employee in a store who asks someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. They are enforcing the rules of the business. And that was the point of my analogy. Customers have to abide by the rules established by a business, whether they agree with them or not.

In no way do I condone individuals confronting other people about not wearing a mask. It’s easier to just move along and away from the unmasked person. The exception is if you’re in line at the store and the unmasked person is standing close behind you, which is creepy even without covid. As I said in another post, if that happens to me, they get the hairy eyeball. If the unmasked person is in front of me in line, I just keep my distance.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Seaplane Pilot]

Then we agree there is no need for tantrums from either side. But let’s be clear, an employee in a store who asks someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. They are enforcing the rules of the business. And that was the point of my analogy. Customers have to abide by the rules established by a business, whether they agree with them or not.

In no way do I condone individuals confronting other people about not wearing a mask. It’s easier to just move along and away from the unmasked person. The exception is if you’re in line at the store and the unmasked person is standing close behind you, which is creepy even without covid. As I said in another post, if that happens to me, they get the hairy eyeball. If the unmasked person is in front of me in line, I just keep my distance.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I agree that a store employee requesting someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. However, a non-employee minding someone's business other than their own, is.

[gillygirl]

I agree that a store employee requesting someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. However, a non-employee minding someone's business other than there own, is.

Then we are in total agreement on that point. Woohoo for rational discourse!

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MotorHead]

I agree that a store employee requesting someone to put on a mask is not a pro-masker Karen. However, a non-employee minding someone's business other than their own, is.

Are you really a Seaplane pilot?
Do you provide lake or land tours?

Thank you.

[Flylady]

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

[WinnisquamZ]

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

Agree. This is spilt 50 50 across the state as those getting vaccinated appear to be between 50/60 percent according to Gov Sununu. At those numbers businesses and customers will be at odds. Interesting dilemma for both parties


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[tis]

Leave the sign on the door that says masks required but don't enforce it. It's not worth an argument with a customer since it is no longer law.

[gillygirl]

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

I think there are more people who will go with the flow than you think. If the business requires masks, the majority of anti-maskers will abide. If they don’t require masks, many mask wearers will go in with a mask, perhaps waiting until the business isn’t crowded. Businesses may still see lower numbers than in 2019, but I think most will see an increase over last year’s sales.

Can someone remind me what phase NH is in? Is social distancing still required in restaurants? I’ve been in Florida for the majority of the pandemic. Requirements vary by county, and since I’m in the Four Corners area (where Lake, Orange, Osceola, and Polk counties meet), the requirements differ amongst places I frequent. Even within the counties, different businesses have different requirements. Few restaurants are social distancing. I do what I am comfortable with by observing what’s going on within each business. At this point, that includes going to and partaking in karaoke. That’s because I am a social creature and need that interaction. What good is a sound body without a sound mind?


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[WinnisquamZ]

Leave the sign on the door that says masks required but don't enforce it. It's not worth an argument with a customer since it is no longer law.

Or losing sales over it

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[LoveLakeLife]

If I were to own a NH business I would not require masks. The people who want to wear would still be able to wear them

As for people in front of me in line who are mask-wearers, they would not have a perceived problem unless they chose to turn around in the first place. (


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

If I were to own a NH business I would not require masks. The people who want to wear would still be able to wear them

As for people in front of me in line who are mask-wearers, they would not have a perceived problem unless they chose to turn around in the first place. (


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)From what I was told by restaurant owners that it's for the protection of the employees. If an employee gets Covid the restaurant has to shut down and be sanitized. which is more costly than losing a few non masking customers.

[gillygirl]

If I were to own a NH business I would not require masks. The people who want to wear would still be able to wear them

As for people in front of me in line who are mask-wearers, they would not have a perceived problem unless they chose to turn around in the first place. (


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)People behind me in line are pointing directly at the gaps in my mask. What's the problem with maintaining 3 feet of distance? I don't need them to be 6 feet, but if they're within the distance where I might have to take a step back and I bump into them, they're too close.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[4 for Boating]

From what I was told by restaurant owners that it's for the protection of the employees. If an employee gets Covid the restaurant has to shut down and be sanitized. which is more costly than losing a few non masking customers.

Sort of tied to my original post - the vaccine is open now to everyone over 16 I think in NH since 4/2 - about 3 weeks now. (In fact now, people from out of state can get a shot in NH). Of course this will take some time to get to everyone in that BIG group but at some point where those that wanted the vaccine (restaurant workers) and got it has passed - would patrons still need to wear a mask?

Would seem that we should be able to forecast such a date.
What if an employee refuses to get the vaccine - interesting dilemma?

[WinnisquamZ]

Sort of tied to my original post - the vaccine is open now to everyone over 16 I think in NH since 4/2 - about 3 weeks now. (In fact now, people from out of state can get a shot in NH). Of course this will take some time to get to everyone in that BIG group but at some point where those that wanted the vaccine (restaurant workers) and got it has passed - would patrons still need to wear a mask?

Would seem that we should be able to forecast such a date.

What if an employee refuses to get the vaccine - interesting dilemma?

With unemployment around 0% in the hospitality business here in the Lakes Region
I don’t see ones refusal to get vaccinated an issue for maintaining ones employment. As President Clinton use to say “Don’t ask don’t tell”

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[4 for Boating]

With unemployment around 0% in the hospitality business here in the Lakes Region
I don’t see ones refusal to get vaccinated an issue for maintaining ones employment. As President Clinton use to say “Don’t ask don’t tell”

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Right - so what happens then > an employee refuses to get the vaccine - the business cannot make them (understandably) - is the business still going to mandate masks to protect these employees and in fear of those employees getting sick and impacting the business? Everyone has to wear masks for those that refuse?

[WinnisquamZ]

If the other employees have been vaccinated, what are they risking? They have been protected with the vaccine. The individual who refused the vaccine is the one taken all the risk

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[FlyingScot]

If the other employees have been vaccinated, what are they risking? They have been protected with the vaccine. The individual who refused the vaccine is the one taken all the risk


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

A basic tenet of employment law is that an employer must treat all employees equally. If only one refuses a vaccine, maybe that's not a big deal. But if a significant number refuse, all of a sudden the employer can no longer just shrug his shoulders.

Plus, even if that one employee is in a high customer contact position, and there are a significant number of unvaccinated customers coming in...

[WinnisquamZ]

https://www.wmur.com/article/state-health-officials-investigating-possible-covid-19-cases-in-those-who-have-been-vaccinated/36192998


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

Sounds to me that it is a lose- lose situation for businesses in NH. If they require patrons to wear a mask, do most anti maskers decide to follow the store rules or go elsewhere with their business?

For businesses that do not require masks, non-mask wearers will utilize their services, however many customers who would otherwise have done business with them decide to not shop at those stores.

Which choice would you make if you were the business owner?

Fair point.

Third option. Government Keeps the mandate to wear a mask.
Business owner follows the law.
non-mask wearers have no issue because they are simply following the law.
And the mask wearers are happy.
A few non maskers will be concerned with their tan lines and not go, but most would go.

Doing what governor did, basically is open season road rage, and causes the lose-lose situation you describe and is exactly the point I was making.
I guarantee it's gonna get ugly now.

This thread is a perfect example.

[SailinAway]

The unspoken truth in this entire thread and similar threads in this forum for the past year is that the differences between pro- and anti-mask wearers are profound and probably immutable:


Caring about oneself versus caring about others and the whole of society
Searching for scientific truth versus believing demagogues
Reflective versus led by emotions
Seeking social progress versus regressing to a primitive social state
Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom
Feeling connected to others (globally) versus clinging to individual identity


These orientations run so deep that there is very little chance that a person will "switch sides" in mid life. They are part and parcel of who we are. For many people, these ways of thinking and being originated in childhood, where we came from, who our parents are. Some may break away from their social and political roots, but by the time you're in your mid twenties, you've probably chosen a camp and intend to stay there.

Is there any hope of repairing this divide, before it destroys us? (Because it WILL destroy us, whether through this pandemic or the next or, certainly, the climate crisis.) We're sort of out of time. The vast social changes that are needed take centuries, millennia, or maybe we just don't have it in us as a species to come together and solve these massive crises ever. We would need to develop such a high level of social cooperation that our desire for survival of the SPECIES would outweigh our individual desire for self-preservation at the expense of the species. The fatal flaw in humans is that the instinct for individual preservation is built into our genetic makeup, but not the awareness that in order for us to survive individually, our species must survive.

That in a nutshell explains why people are unwilling to wear a mask to protect other people. They don't understand that if hundreds of millions of people get sick and die, eventually they themselves will either be killed by the virus or they will suffer some other grave consequence through economic collapse, collapse of the food system, social chaos, etc.

I'm not a philosopher. For a take on these questions from a real philosopher, this 2020 book looks well worth reading: The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity, by Oxford University philosopher Toby Ord https://www.amazon.com/Precipice-Existential-Risk-Future-Humanity/dp/0316484911

[fatlazyless]

April 22, www.nytimes.com ....... Do We Still Need to Wear a Mask, Outdoors? ..... in the middle of the front page ..... is a good long look at this issue if you are bored out of your mind right now, and have nothing better to do.

[DEJ]

The unspoken truth in this entire thread and similar threads in this forum for the past year is that the differences between pro- and anti-mask wearers are profound and probably immutable:


Caring about oneself versus caring about others and the whole of society
Searching for scientific truth versus believing demagogues
Reflective versus led by emotions
Seeking social progress versus regressing to a primitive social state
Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom
Feeling connected to others (globally) versus clinging to individual identity


These orientations run so deep that there is very little chance that a person will "switch sides" in mid life. They are part and parcel of who we are. For many people, these ways of thinking and being originated in childhood, where we came from, who our parents are. Some may break away from their social and political roots, but by the time you're in your mid twenties, you've probably chosen a camp and intend to stay there.

Is there any hope of repairing this divide, before it destroys us? (Because it WILL destroy us, whether through this pandemic or the next or, certainly, the climate crisis.) We're sort of out of time. The vast social changes that are needed take centuries, millennia, or maybe we just don't have it in us as a species to come together and solve these massive crises ever. We would need to develop such a high level of social cooperation that our desire for survival of the SPECIES would outweigh our individual desire for self-preservation at the expense of the species. The fatal flaw in humans is that the instinct for individual preservation is built into our genetic makeup, but not the awareness that in order for us to survive individually, our species must survive.

That in a nutshell explains why people are unwilling to wear a mask to protect other people. They don't understand that if hundreds of millions of people get sick and die, eventually they themselves will either be killed by the virus or they will suffer some other grave consequence through economic collapse, collapse of the food system, social chaos, etc.

I'm not a philosopher. For a take on these questions from a real philosopher, this 2020 book looks well worth reading: The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity, by Oxford University philosopher Toby Ord https://www.amazon.com/Precipice-Existential-Risk-Future-Humanity/dp/0316484911

I understand your message however the delivery leaves a little to be desired IMO. Using terms and words like "demagogues" "Caring about oneself versus caring about others" "Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom" etc... does not help your credibility or your message. Putting down one side, the side you disagree with will never bring us together on this or any other issue. Just food for thought.

[Newbiesaukee]

According to several recent surveys, about 85% of people identifying as Democrats will seek vaccination and only about 45% of Republicans will.

You can quibble whether mask wearing works and maintain that the mask debate is not primarily political. But what is the explanation for the above if not political?

If that few Republicans are vaccinated, it will be very difficult to achieve herd immunity. If that is the case, the consequences will be tragic, particularly as it is preventable.

My take is that the surveys are wrong in the same way the voting for Trump surveys often turned out incorrect. Many polling analysts believe that people identifying as Republicans often voted for Trump while answering they would not and Democrats would say they would not, when they did.

If the vaccination polls ARE correct, how is the split NOT political?

Is it true that the majority of Republicans are against vaccination?

[Biggd]

A basic tenet of employment law is that an employer must treat all employees equally. If only one refuses a vaccine, maybe that's not a big deal. But if a significant number refuse, all of a sudden the employer can no longer just shrug his shoulders.

Plus, even if that one employee is in a high customer contact position, and there are a significant number of unvaccinated customers coming in...We have a few restaurant owners on this site, maybe they could chime in.

[FlyingScot]

According to several recent surveys, about 85% of people identifying as Democrats will seek vaccination and only about 45% of Republicans will.

You can quibble whether mask wearing works and maintain that the mask debate is not primarily political. But what is the explanation for the above if not political?

If that few Republicans are vaccinated, it will be very difficult to achieve herd immunity. If that is the case, the consequences will be tragic, particularly as it is preventable.

My take is that the surveys are wrong in the same way the voting for Trump surveys often turned out incorrect. Many polling analysts believe that people identifying as Republicans often voted for Trump while answering they would not and Democrats would say they would not, when they did.

If the vaccination polls ARE correct, how is the split NOT political?

Is it true that the majority of Republicans are against vaccination?

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these vaccine resisters have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

[WinnisquamZ]

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these groups have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

Did you just write Blacks, Hispanics, and Republicans lack basic education and logic? May I be the first to say your words are idiotic

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Newbiesaukee]

That is not what Flying wrote and not what he meant. And I DO know what he meant. Those darn adjectives really do count.

You may not agree with him at all...but you can’t argue with what he did not say.

[gillygirl]

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these groups have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.

Perhaps you should have done a little research before posting. It’s mistrust of the healthcare system that is behind minorities hesitancy to get the vaccine.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[thinkxingu]

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these groups have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.Don't overlook many POC's intrinsic distrust of the medical institution. This has been documented for years in relation to historical treatment, the Tuskegee Experiments being one such catalyst for distrust.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[FlyingScot]

Did you just write Blacks, Hispanics, and Republicans lack basic education and logic? May I be the first to say your words are idiotic

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Of course I didn't mean that. But I will change "these groups" to these "vaccine resistors"

[FlyingScot]

Perhaps you should have done a little research before posting. It’s mistrust of the healthcare system that is behind minorities hesitancy to get the vaccine.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I understand the history. White America screwing your ancestors in hundred different ways, including medical experiments, is real, and a good reason to pause for a moment or a few days. But to skip a vaccine that is vetted by the FDA and the vast majority of white America is clamoring for is an emotional response, not a logical one

[SailinAway]

I understand your message however the delivery leaves a little to be desired IMO. Using terms and words like "demagogues" "Caring about oneself versus caring about others" "Commitment to social responsibility versus claiming total personal freedom" etc... does not help your credibility or your message. Putting down one side, the side you disagree with will never bring us together on this or any other issue. Just food for thought.

I can never bring YOU over to my way of thinking. Thus I send my message to those who can be reached by it and will be galvanized to take action on it. You've understood my message. Whether it motivates you to do something to sustain your species is up to you.

[DEJ]

I can never bring YOU over to my way of thinking. Thus I send my message to those who can be reached by it and will be galvanized to take action on it. You've understood my message. Whether it motivates you to do something to sustain your species is up to you.

If you keep messaging the way you currently do then yes you will never bring me over to your way of thinking. Putting down the side you do not agree with will never accomplish anything. So in summary it is also up to you.

[ApS]

I've read a number of similar stories. In fairness to our Republican pen pals on this forum, it seems that New Hampshire Republicans do not suffer from this profound stupidity. These articles have also noted that many Blacks and Hispanics (presumably Democrats) are also vaccine resistant. The thing all these vaccine resisters have in common--whether they are southern white Republicans or northern Black Democrats--is lack of education and inability to apply basic logic over emotion.
I'm currently being treated for an aggressive skin rash.

My Dermatologist was wearing the standard rectangular mask, but it was looped only at the top corners. (...and hanging loose at the bottom corners). :rolleye2: I regret complimenting its appearance! :o

But if everybody wore a similar mask, we'd all be in compliance, and we wouldn't hear threats from D.C. enforcing the cancelations of 4th of July gatherings. :eek:

Nor news from Canada about fencing off a church, and adding guards. (200 by one account). :eek2:
https://globalnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/globalnews.ca/news/7742895/edmonton-area-gracelife-church-closure-covid-19/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16191050042878&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

[Flylady]

If the other employees have been vaccinated, what are they risking? They have been protected with the vaccine. The individual who refused the vaccine is the one taken all the risk

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

This establishment announced it is closed again because of Covid-19 employee exposure? It is the second or third time they have had to close. It is no secret that in the area there is a large population of people that are against masks. To me this again illustrates that some people do not care what the impact is to their small communities by not wearing a mask in any indoor situation.

I would be very sad to see this restaurant fail.

[WinnisquamZ]

You are assuming it was transmitted by a non masked customer, are you not? Can I assume the employee contacted it from a family member or peer group? You don’t name the establishment and I have not heard of one being closed in this area so am I to believe you? With that said, if the establishment was following all protocols and still got a positive exposure shouldn’t that tell you everything that is being done won’t stop a virus.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[VitaBene]

You are assuming it was transmitted by a non masked customer, are you not? Can I assume the employee contacted it from a family member or peer group? You don’t name the establishment and I have not heard of one being closed in this area so am I to believe you? With that said, if the establishment was following all protocols and still got a positive exposure shouldn’t that tell you everything that is being done won’t stop a virus.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

It says Knotty Pine in the title, but if on a mobile I don't think you see the title

[WinnisquamZ]

True


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[trfour]

We will be waring Masks out of doors again soon. We are still too far from having Covid-19 infections under our control.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/it-still-necessary-wear-masks-outdoors-cdc-looking-revising-mask-n1264937

[WinnisquamZ]

Counterpoint from WMUR of all people https://wmur.com/article/positive-trends-seen-in-new-hampshires-covid-19-numbers/36203464


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MotorHead]

FAKE NEWS.. Do not wear mask, Do not get vaccinated
This is all FAKE NEWS.. Right?

https://www.businessinsider.com/kentucky-nursing-home-unvaccinated-worker-coronavirus-outbreak-2021-4

[gillygirl]

We will be waring Masks out of doors again soon. We are still too far from having Covid-19 infections under our control.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/it-still-necessary-wear-masks-outdoors-cdc-looking-revising-mask-n1264937Never understood the need to wear a mask outdoors, unless you're in close quarters.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[4 for Boating]

Would be nice for the government to tell us what exactly has to happen where we do not have to wear masks. It is not realistic to say when there are no more infections or to force people that don't want it to get it - that is simply never going to happen. Most likely, the government's projection of the population that they expect to get shot is going to fall way short. I personally don't see a lot of very low risk 16 year olds getting an emergency use shot with no track record but who knows.

At some point in the coming future, when everyone that wants the vaccine has been offered it and it was available to them (now with paid time off to get one) with a time buffer for the 2nd shot, I'm not sure I see why masks are still a factor after that point. Of course we call all pick whatever group we like to try to blame on for not getting the vaccine... In the end, someone's body, someone's choice.

Who are we protecting after that point by wearing a mask?
Once the state starts to say > We have vaccine supply but no longer have material volume of people asking/waiting for it - is it not time to take the mask off OR are we waiting for something else that we are not being told OR are we trying to protect those that choose to never get the vaccine?

[trfour]

Never understood the need to wear a mask outdoors, unless you're in close quarters.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

I just Liston to my Doctor, the medical Scientists whom many of which have studied Pandemics and speak the truth! This has kept me around for 76 years and hopefully another birthday coming up in August with Family.

Those people that think that they know better, still do so. Just look at the every day death toll...

[ApS]

I understand the history. White America screwing your ancestors in hundred different ways, including medical experiments, is real, and a good reason to pause for a moment or a few days. But to skip a vaccine that is vetted by the FDA and the vast majority of white America is clamoring for is an emotional response, not a logical one

Then there's this reasoned response to vaccinations:

"After working in Hazmat for much of my career... I sometimes had up to a dozen vaccines in a year. I never had any problems with any of them and these were serious vaccines for serious ailments. I would be more than happy to take another vaccine for something that was an actual threat to my health.

...and it turns out that most of my former co-workers want nothing to do with any of the Covid vaccines for a variety of reasons. The coercion and the suppression of information about side effects up to and including death are strong incentives to forget about it. But mostly the pathogen is so mild with such a low death rate for most people who have no health issues, plus it is contagious enough that by now most of us have had some low level exposures and have already developed an immune response. Sorry, but taking experimental vaccines because you have been terrorized by the media and politicians is asking for trouble".
.

[LoveLakeLife]

The federal government has no authority to enforce any so-called cancellation of Independence Day. Celebrate the holiday and don’t let your life be run by the government. Remember the state motto.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[BrunoSR]

If you feel better wearing a mask, then wear one!!

That being said, do masks prevent transmitting or getting the virus?

I’d have to say they do not. I am not a doctor and I do not have a degree in any of the medical sciences. What I do have is practical experience.

Last November I worked with a coworker from another department, on a project. We were both in good health and both wearing masks. We were in close proximity of each other for about an hour. Two days later we were again working together, for about an hour, both still feeling fine, still wearing masks.

The next day he started feeling sick, I was ok. The following day he tested positive for Covid-19 as did a couple of others in his department.

The following day I started feeling ill, got sicker over the weekend. Monday, I called in sick at work. I was told to get tested as there was a breakout at work. I tested positive the next day.

I can’t guarantee that I got it from him, but no one else around me has had the virus. And I hadn’t been anywhere or been in any crowds.

Even though I don’t think that masks do a dam thing, I wear one in public. Why, to make others feel comfortable.

Now the real question here, is how many miles we have walked getting out of our cars to go into a store, getting to the door and saying, ****!! My mask! Turning around and getting it………………………………………………….

[SailinAway]

If you keep messaging the way you currently do then yes you will never bring me over to your way of thinking. Putting down the side you do not agree with will never accomplish anything. So in summary it is also up to you.

One point of my post was to show that these worldviews are deeply entrenched and probably not changeable in a person over the age of 20 or so. That's true regardless of how the message is expressed! These basic worldviews are a huge part of our identity. You can't give them up without feeling like your identity is under assault. It's who you are.

Think of what it takes to get someone into and out of a cult. They have to experience a complete shift in their identity. Getting people out of a cult is very, very difficult because people feel psychologically threatened when you present them with facts that are counter to their built identity. Very few people are willing to consciously sit down and think through their system of beliefs---what it's built on, whether it serves good or bad purposes, whether it works for themselves and others.

The forces that maintain beliefs are subconscious. It takes a strong act of will to examine your beliefs point by point and be open to the possibility of changing them. Religious beliefs are an example of this, but in recent years political beliefs have become associated with very strong emotions to an extent that wasn't really the case in past eras. When the emotions become externalized---like at a political rally---the adrenaline rush pretty much rules out any possibility of introspection about your beliefs. Even in this forum, people make strong public statements affirming their identity. Every time you thank a poster, you're affirming your identity---always the same predictable group of people, affirming the same beliefs. There's really no retreat from that because now your public image is on the line. You can't say, "You know, I was thinking about my reasons for why I don't want to wear a mask. I guess I was only thinking my own needs. I decided that I do owe it to others to not make them sick if I'm infected, so I've decided to wear a mask. I regret that I may have unknowingly exposed people to COVID by not wearing a mask."

I think we need to be realistic about the extent to which people can change their beliefs and behaviors. Apparently people only change when they're faced with a monumental catastrophe. The sad truth is that the death of 570,000 Americans due to COVID-19 is not monumental enough. The current status of the climate crisis is not monumental enough. If you walked out your front door tomorrow and discovered that half of the people in your town had died of COVID---the plague wiped out half of Europe in the 1300s---and the temperature was 120 degrees in December, I dare say that would be monumental enough to change your beliefs and behaviors. The question is whether there is a midpoint in the size of the catastrophe that will change people's behavior in time to reverse a crisis. We haven't reached that point yet with COVID and we may have already passed the point where effective change is possible with the climate crisis.

I'm not putting you down. I'm making observations about human nature that apply to you and me both.

[trfour]

New cases are showing up, even after shots.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-chief-warns-of-this-unsettling-covid-trend/ss-BB1fYA1K?ocid=msedgntp

[LoveLakeLife]

lol climate crisis a/k/a weather


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[trfour]

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/covid-19-variants-five-things-know-about-how-coronavirus-evolving.html

[trfour]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/26/vaccinated-wear-a-mask/

[gravy boat]

"As of April 20, when about 87 million Americans had been fully vaccinated, 7,157 breakthrough infections were reported to the CDC. The majority were among women (64%) and nearly half were among those older than 60 (46%). There were 498 hospitalizations and 88 deaths among those cases."

Full article:
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article251004244.html

[AC2717]

the Gov reminded everyone that ALL restrictions from the State end May 7th. Then it is up to businesses to decide what they want to do. And then the public can make their own decisions to spend money there or not - the way it should be

obviously you have some municipalities in the state doing their own things as well but from a state perspective they are done May 7th

[ApS]

Americans ordered out of India, as country faces overwhelming COVID-19 onslaught:

In the advisory, US citizens were told "not to travel to India or to leave as soon as it is safe to do so". :eek2:

"US citizens who wish to depart India should take advantage of available commercial transportation options now," it said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56932513

[mswlogo]

According to several recent surveys, about 85% of people identifying as Democrats will seek vaccination and only about 45% of Republicans will.

You can quibble whether mask wearing works and maintain that the mask debate is not primarily political. But what is the explanation for the above if not political?

If that few Republicans are vaccinated, it will be very difficult to achieve herd immunity. If that is the case, the consequences will be tragic, particularly as it is preventable.

My take is that the surveys are wrong in the same way the voting for Trump surveys often turned out incorrect. Many polling analysts believe that people identifying as Republicans often voted for Trump while answering they would not and Democrats would say they would not, when they did.

If the vaccination polls ARE correct, how is the split NOT political?

Is it true that the majority of Republicans are against vaccination?

You're right about that. The hell with the masks.

I think that many republicans basically don't trust government. They prefer small government, a light hand and not being told what THEY have to do.

I can't really say I blame them, in some instances, government has really screwed up.

But sometimes you have to take a chance. If they don't join in, we are gonna be in trouble. There is gonna be some portion that doesn't get vaccinated. Say 10% (due to access, communication, illegal immigrants, what ever). But if half the republican's don't vaccinate that would bring us to around 65%. That's not good.

There are signs that the polls are correct. That the vaccination rate is slowing down in the USA. That is partly due to the J&J pause (limited supply and made nervous people even more nervous).

It really is amazing that we have 3 good vaccines available.

I read one good article on the J&J pause. Basically saying the odds of you getting the blood clot from J&J is 100 times less than it is that you get into a serious car accident getting to the location of the vaccine.

One positive note regarding masks in NH. I was in all my usual spots in the lakes region this past Thursday - Sunday. And mask wearing was about the same. Went to Polly's. We ate in, huge space between tables, masks required on the entrance, yes we removed masks to eat, all staff masked :). Harts (take out, all visible staff masked), Home Depot and Local Hardware Store. All top notch being careful. Few patrons didn't wear masks, but that's "normal".

[Newbiesaukee]

A leading medical publisher has retracted an often cited article, including the dangers and ineffectiveness of masks, which has been referenced on our forum. The author is not who he said he is among other other serious issues raised. Stanford University has also confirmed this.

One link if you’re interested in beating another dead horse.

https://retractionwatch.com/2021/04/26/elsevier-journal-to-retract-widely-debunked-masks-study-whose-author-claimed-a-stanford-affiliation/

[thinkxingu]

A leading medical publisher has retracted an often cited article, including the dangers and ineffectiveness of masks, which has been referenced on our forum. The author is not who he said he is among other other serious issues raised. Stanford University has also confirmed this.

One link if you’re interested in beating another dead horse.

https://retractionwatch.com/2021/04/26/elsevier-journal-to-retract-widely-debunked-masks-study-whose-author-claimed-a-stanford-affiliation/Thanks, Newbie. As I referenced above, that piece was so easily debunked it was a testament to how much some of our forum members—and Americans as a whole—are at the mercy of confirmation bias.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[FlyingScot]

But if half the republican's don't vaccinate that would bring us to around 65%. That's not good.



We are already at, or maybe over, 50% of US adults vaccinated.

Still too many sitting on the sidelines, but they're coming around.

No masks outdoors in Mass today!:)

[VitaBene]

We are already at, or maybe over, 50% of US adults vaccinated.

Still too many sitting on the sidelines, but they're coming around.

No masks outdoors in Mass today!:)

Hope so! I can see that stores and restaurant workers are tired of fighting with people (and have pretty much stopped).

I think it will be a crazy summer around here!!:)

[MotorHead]

Went to DD this morning in Laconia, there are huge signs on both doors and inside that says “Wear your mask before entering” yet there are a few old farts (yes I am old too) waiting around for their coffee without their mask on. I am not sure why they would bother putting up signs all over the store if they are not going to enforce it.
What is the point. Either enforce it or do not bother putting signs everywhere.

[mswlogo]

Went to DD this morning in Laconia, there are huge signs on both doors and inside that says “Wear your mask before entering” yet there are a few old farts (yes I am old too) waiting around for their coffee without their mask on. I am not sure why they would bother putting up signs all over the store if they are not going to enforce it.
What is the point. Either enforce it or do not bother putting signs everywhere.

Workers are not gonna confront customers.

[ApS]

Thanks, Newbie. As I referenced above, that piece was so easily debunked it was a testament to how much some of our forum members—and
Americans as a whole—are at the mercy of confirmation bias.

Watch TV "news" to curl up with "Confirmation Bias".

[MotorHead]

Workers are not gonna confront customers.

Then they should be honest and change to sign to read
"Masks are optional" or "Masks are encouraged", that way I can decide if I want to go in or not.

I personally will not be going there again, a cup of coffee it's not worth dying for.

[TKD]

Then they should be honest and change to sign to read
"Masks are optional" or "Masks are encouraged", that way I can decide if I want to go in or not.

I personally will not be going there again, a cup of coffee it's not worth dying for.

Is the coffee is that bad ?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[LoveLakeLife]

If you’re worried about dying why even leave the house?!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MotorHead]

If you’re worried about dying why even leave the house?!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

You either

Do not get it
Pretend you don't get it
You do not want to get it.


What is the point of advertising for something that you do not have?

That is the question. Had I known they are not going to enforce it, I would not have gone in there. Do you get it now?

[mswlogo]

You either

Do not get it
Pretend you don't get it
You do not want to get it.


What is the point of advertising for something that you do not have?

That is the question. Had I known they are not going to enforce it, I would not have gone in there. Do you get it now?

You have to be realistic.

I talked to a home depot clerk once and he was explaining how people walk out with stuff in their carts all the time. They just watch them walk out because it’s not worth the confrontation. Clerks are not trained to deal with that sort of thing. So they just let it go.

They gonna put up a sign say we don’t care if you steal anything. We just recommend you don’t.

From the beginning of COViD there have been some folks that refuse to comply. You need to just deal with it, it’s like others said, just stay home.

There are loonies on the road, in every store, in every crowd long before COVID.

From the beginning of COVID I’ve chosen, is it worth it? Say I want take out (when things were really bad with COViD). Often I’d just say no to myself and skip it. Other times I went ahead and got it. We had our limits of seeing anything uncomfortable, we bail.

BTW, my wife and I lost our jobs over COVID confrontation with the owner of the company we worked at. He was a total a$$ in the beginning when states were shutting down. Basically he demanded we be there or he will take that as a resignation. We never went back. I also advised everyone in the company not to comply. Most eventually did leave.

When we went to Polly’s recently my wife was concerned. I said if it doesn’t look good we’ll just do take out. But as soon as we got there we both felt very safe. Tons of space, lots of care being taken. Was it a guarantee that some nut wouldn’t sneeze with no mask going by our table? No, but highly unlikely. About as likely as getting in a car accident getting there.

Some places might try to enforce. But I don’t think many will. You just have to realize that and judge what you are willing to risk. If you don’t feel comfortable then don’t go in.

For Dunkin Donuts just do drive up. ;)

[gravy boat]

The benefits of living in a "free" society is that we all have choices.

We were at WalMart yesterday and the sign now says "Masks Recommended". For the last several weeks I've seen a few people on every shopping trip to WalMart without masks -- and almost ALL looked to be over 60 years old. I saw nobody confronted by employees.

There will be people who will refuse the vaccine or wear a mask and there is zero to be done about it. People can hand-wring, fret and pontificate online every day for hours about it with zero effect. No minds will be changed. No shame will be accepted. That time has passed.

The simple solution is those who are afraid should either stay home (not a fun option) or continue to wear their masks when they feel they need to do so. Luckily there are numerous drive throughs, take-out options and curbside pickup services for those who wish to avoid crowds/people. When you think about it you can coast through the rest of your years without ever entering a store, restaurant or place where people gather.

[MotorHead]

You have to be realistic.

I talked to a home depot clerk once and he was explaining how people walk out with stuff in their carts all the time. They just watch them walk out because it’s not worth the confrontation. Clerks are not trained to deal with that sort of thing. So they just let it go.

They gonna put up a sign say we don’t care if you steal anything. We just recommend you don’t.

From the beginning of COViD there have been some folks that refuse to comply. You need to just deal with it, it’s like others said, just stay home.

There are loonies on the road, in every store, in every crowd long before COVID.

From the beginning of COVID I’ve chosen, is it worth it? Say I want take out (when things were really bad with COViD). Often I’d just say no to myself and skip it. Other times I went ahead and got it. We had our limits of seeing anything uncomfortable, we bail.

BTW, my wife and I lost our jobs over COVID confrontation with the owner of the company we worked at. He was a total a$$ in the beginning when states were shutting down. Basically he demanded we be there or he will take that as a resignation. We never went back. I also advised everyone in the company not to comply. Most eventually did leave.

When we went to Polly’s recently my wife was concerned. I said if it doesn’t look good we’ll just do take out. But as soon as we got there we both felt very safe. Tons of space, lots of care being taken. Was it a guarantee that some nut wouldn’t sneeze with no mask going by our table? No, but highly unlikely. About as likely as getting in a car accident getting there.

Some places might try to enforce. But I don’t think many will. You just have to realize that and judge what you are willing to risk. If you don’t feel comfortable then don’t go in.

For Dunkin Donuts just do drive up. ;)

I am sorry about losing your job, your ex boss sounds like a BIG A$$.
I hope you and your wife were able to secure something else.

[FlyingScot]

BTW, my wife and I lost our jobs over COVID confrontation with the owner of the company we worked at. He was a total a$$ in the beginning when states were shutting down. Basically he demanded we be there or he will take that as a resignation. We never went back. I also advised everyone in the company not to comply. Most eventually did leave.



Separate issue from covid in particular--I love that you walked on your jobs. So many people talk a big game about how tough and/or righteous they are, but then don't have the stones at crunch time.

Respect

[thinkxingu]

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity.

Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[VitaBene]

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity.

Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

1. I have been, and yes.
2. Getting close when there are massive amounts of appointments readily available.

[gravy boat]

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity.

Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)


1. Yes, vaccinated. Yes comfortable being anywhere without a mask.
2. Now.

[LoveLakeLife]

I presume that by “get” you mean “understand”. Yes, I understand the point you attempted to make. I was responding tongue-in-cheek to your hyperbolic panic over the prospect of dying from buying coffee while wearing a mask. I do credit you for not expecting others to act silly so you can feel better. That’s refreshing and laudable.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

I am sorry about losing your job, your ex boss sounds like a BIG A$$.
I hope you and your wife were able to secure something else.

Thanks. Yes we both have better jobs.

I can work 3 days a week from home after COVID.
And it’s about half way between my MA house and the NH lake house so I can commute from either house.

But damn, my wife just got a great job. Not sure how flexible they will be on the work from home part, after COVID. We’ll see.

[thinkxingu]

Went into three small businesses this weekend and, though all had plexiglass barriers at the counters, none had mask requests and nobody—workers nor customers—was wearing a mask.

Honestly, it felt pretty good.

I'm not sure I'd feel as confident in a more saturated environment—bar/ club, busy gym, etc.—but things are definitely moving forward.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[broguy]

Simplified Explanation

[DEJ]

Simplified Explanation

So let me ask, in your opinion when do we stop wearing masks?

[MotorHead]

So let me ask, in your opinion when do we stop wearing masks?

When the professionals, people with vast education and knowledge on this subject say it is OK to not wear a mask.

[DEJ]

When the professionals, people with vast education and knowledge on this subject say it is OK to not wear a mask.

I was asking broguy for his opinion but thanks for your unsolicited response anyway.

[Biggd]

So let me ask, in your opinion when do we stop wearing masks?When we all start wearing Depends. :D

[Seaplane Pilot]

Simplified Explanation

On the other hand.....What about that fat guy who passes gas in the elevator after eating a 3-bean burrito for lunch? Assuming he has underwear and pants on, how is it that the "gas" is disseminated so rapidly through not one, but two layers of cloth?

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Seaplane, please don’t ever lose your sense of humor. 😂

[thinkxingu]

On the other hand.....What about that fat guy who passes gas in the elevator after eating a 3-bean burrito for lunch? Assuming he has underwear and pants on, how is it that the "gas" is disseminated so rapidly through not one, but two layers of cloth?water ≠ air

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[ApS]

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity. Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?


Statement from WHO:

"To be sure, as the agency noted, there there are psychological and social benefits to mask wearing. For instance, in some countries, mask wearing helped to prevent stigmatizing the infected.

"Still, mask wearing by the general public is not among the WHO’s recommendations. “We don’t generally recommend the wearing of masks in public by otherwise [healthy] individuals because it has not up to now been associated with any particular benefit,” said Ryan."

[thinkxingu]

Statement from WHO:That statement is from March of last year, before the pandemic really got started. Did you know that and were deliberately misleading or did you fall for confirmation bias like so many others?

Please let me know if I'm wrong, and I'll gladly edit, but here's the current (as of their website on 5/12) WHO recommendations:16968

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[DEJ]

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-can-drop-masks-most-places-2021-5

Sent from my SM-T387V using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[thinkxingu]

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-can-drop-masks-most-places-2021-5

Sent from my SM-T387V using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Awesome! Though I've felt ready to do this since being vaccinated, I've been fine wearing a mask for others who haven't, but I'm sure ready to move forward now that vaccines are easy to get.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[gillygirl]

Awesome! Though I've felt ready to do this since being vaccinated, I've been fine wearing a mask for others who haven't, but I'm sure ready to move forward now that vaccines are easy to get.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

While vaccines may be easy to get, demand for them has decreased too soon. And New Hampshire ranks 33rd of states for percentage of fully vaccinated individuals. The other 5 New England states make up the top 5.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[thinkxingu]

While vaccines may be easy to get, demand for them has decreased too soon. And New Hampshire ranks 33rd of states for percentage of fully vaccinated individuals. The other 5 New England states make up the top 5.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Given that all signs point to never hitting herd immunity numbers, there's gonna have to be a point where we just move forward.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Flylady]

So now that masks are not required for the vaccinated, please remember that the rules that each non government business puts in place for their establishment are the rights of the owners/management. Bottom line you do not have to do business with a place in which you do not want to follow their rules. So please do everyone a favor...if you do not wish to follow those rules go elsewhere rather than to create confrontation with the management, employees and customers.

[Garcia]

So now that masks are not required for the vaccinated, please remember that the rules that each non government business puts in place for their establishment are the rights of the owners/management. Bottom line you do not have to do business with a place in which you do not want to follow their rules. So please do everyone a favor...if you do not wish to follow those rules go elsewhere rather than to create confrontation with the management, employees and customers.

I agree. It always irritates me when people clearly violate a business's policy and get into an argument with the employee. This is true of returns, dress code, masks, 12 items or less lanes, etc. Having been that teenager tasked with asking people to follow clearly stated rules/expectations, only to be demeaned by a customer, I am sympathetic to the employees who are low on the decision making totem pole yet on the front line of enforcement.

[ApS]

That statement is from March of last year, before the pandemic really got started. Did you know that and were deliberately misleading or did you fall for confirmation bias like so many others? Please let me know if I'm wrong, and I'll gladly edit, but here's the current (as of their website on 5/12) WHO recommendations...
I shelved my TV set in my Dad's attic maybe 20 years ago, so my own confirmation bias comes from the same research that today's so-called "Journalists" were supposed to be doing.

In March of 2020, both Dr. Fauci and WHO were lying to us.

But—from researching British, Australian, and Dubai news-sources—I understood why.

[trfour]

The latest; https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fauci-says-public-misinterpreting-latest-cdc-mask-guidance-n1268000

[gravy boat]

We will see if there a sudden spike nationwide in 2 weeks.
I don't think we will.

COVID, like other viruses, is here for while -- viruses mutate. So the best you can do is get vaccinated and protect yourself however you see fit.

Remember before COVID how so many with compromised immune systems (COPD, lung cancer and other ailments) wore those same white/blue surgical masks in public as they were recommended by docs to prevent being exposed to germs/viruses? So why does wearing those same masks no longer prevent you being exposed to germs/viruses, but will prevent someone wearing a mask from infecting you? Isn't there a barrier inside the mask? If there is a barrier then it logically blocks going BOTH ways.

I've wondered this for a year -- it makes no sense.

GB

[gillygirl]

We will see if there a sudden spike nationwide in 2 weeks.
I don't think we will.

COVID, like other viruses, is here for while -- viruses mutate. So the best you can do is get vaccinated and protect yourself however you see fit.

Remember before COVID how so many with compromised immune systems (COPD, lung cancer and other ailments) wore those same white/blue surgical masks in public as they were recommended by docs to prevent being exposed to germs/viruses? So why does wearing those same masks no longer prevent you being exposed to germs/viruses, but will prevent someone wearing a mask from infecting you? Isn't there a barrier inside the mask? If there is a barrier then it logically blocks going BOTH ways.

I've wondered this for a year -- it makes no sense.

GB



I don’t know why you think masks no longer prevent the wearer from being exposed.

Quote from the CDC:

Source Control to Block Exhaled Virus
Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with the microorganisms these particles carry.7,8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;3,5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3,14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5,6,15,16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3,9,14

Filtration for Wearer Protection
Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns. The relative filtration effectiveness of various masks has varied widely across studies, in large part due to variation in experimental design and particle sizes analyzed. Multiple layers of cloth with higher thread counts have demonstrated superior performance compared to single layers of cloth with lower thread counts, in some cases filtering nearly 50% of fine particles less than 1 micron .14,17-29 Some materials (e.g., polypropylene) may enhance filtering effectiveness by generating triboelectric charge (a form of static electricity) that enhances capture of charged particles18,30 while others (e.g., silk) may help repel moist droplets31 and reduce fabric wetting and thus maintain breathability and comfort. In addition to the number of layers and choice of materials, other techniques can improve wearer protection by improving fit and thereby filtration capacity. Examples include but are not limited to mask fitters, knotting-and-tucking the ear loops of medical procedures masks, using a cloth mask placed over a medical procedure mask, and nylon hosiery sleeves.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[thinkxingu]

India, 5/20/21: 4,500 dead.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[gravy boat]

I don’t know why you think masks no longer prevent the wearer from being exposed.

Quote from the CDC:

Source Control to Block Exhaled Virus
Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with the microorganisms these particles carry.7,8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;3,5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3,14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5,6,15,16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3,9,14

Filtration for Wearer Protection
Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns. The relative filtration effectiveness of various masks has varied widely across studies, in large part due to variation in experimental design and particle sizes analyzed. Multiple layers of cloth with higher thread counts have demonstrated superior performance compared to single layers of cloth with lower thread counts, in some cases filtering nearly 50% of fine particles less than 1 micron .14,17-29 Some materials (e.g., polypropylene) may enhance filtering effectiveness by generating triboelectric charge (a form of static electricity) that enhances capture of charged particles18,30 while others (e.g., silk) may help repel moist droplets31 and reduce fabric wetting and thus maintain breathability and comfort. In addition to the number of layers and choice of materials, other techniques can improve wearer protection by improving fit and thereby filtration capacity. Examples include but are not limited to mask fitters, knotting-and-tucking the ear loops of medical procedures masks, using a cloth mask placed over a medical procedure mask, and nylon hosiery sleeves.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Never said I don't believe they work. I was simply bringing up a question about the messaging throughout to wear masks to protect OTHERS vs told to wear them to protect OURSELVES. Am I saying I don't believe masks work? Nope. I've worn one throughout when required.

Since masks protect you both ways, the vaccinated should not have to wear them any longer...anywhere. Yes, there will be private business that will still require them and I'll wear them if I really need to get something inside. Because masks work both ways then those who still fear being near others should wear the mask and be confident they are protecting themselves.

[gillygirl]

Never said I don't believe they work. I was simply bringing up a question about the messaging throughout to wear masks to protect OTHERS vs told to wear them to protect OURSELVES. Am I saying I don't believe masks work? Nope. I've worn one throughout when required.

Since masks protect you both ways, the vaccinated should not have to wear them any longer...anywhere. Yes, there will be private business that will still require them and I'll wear them if I really need to get something inside. Because masks work both ways then those who still fear being near others should wear the mask and be confident they are protecting themselves.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your question/confusion. Masks don’t work equally in both directions. Masks are more effective at preventing transmission than preventing infection. Wish I could find the article I read early on in the mask debate explaining why, but I can’t at the moment, and my pea brain has shoved that info out.

Recommendations are going to change as we get deeper into the time since vaccines became available and more data becomes available.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Lakegeezer]

At a visit to the M'boro Dollar General today, a sign on the door said masks were not required for those that have been vaccinated and recommended for those that aren't. Most inside were wearing masks. I went without and it felt good, safe for others and weird at the same time. Keeping masks at customer's discretion seems like a good next step as long as variants aren't breaking through, but the approach is not without risk.

I believe, as does Gillygirl, that masks are better at protecting others than yourself, since they absorb potentially virus laden moisture. Unfortunately, those that choose to identify as vaccinated or otherwise immune will include a few that are contagious. Those not immune may catch a dose but it is unlikely at this point that an outbreak will overwhelm the medical system.

[thinkxingu]

I think this is a good way to handle masks right now. This was on a restaurant I visited Friday that had plenty of indoor and outdoor seating.17009

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[trfour]

During a Pandemic.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/covid-masks-save-american-lives-they-still-can-should-post-ncna1263366

[WinnisquamZ]

Just ate lunch at Shibleys at the pier. No masks on staff or customers. It was wonderful to see smiles


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[WinnisquamZ]

With rain forecasted for the next few days it will terrifiic to have a mask burning event with family and friends


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I had thought that this topic would be finished by now, but no....another email today, stating that we all must still wear masks while in public in order to protect those who haven’t been vaccinated. WHAT? I believe that by now everyone who wants to have the vaccine can get it....it’s readily available. If that’s the case, why must the rest of us wear masks because some people are either careless or too lazy to get the vaccine? That’s nuts.

[gillygirl]

I had thought that this topic would be finished by now, but no....another email today, stating that we all must still wear masks while in public in order to protect those who haven’t been vaccinated. WHAT? I believe that by now everyone who wants to have the vaccine can get it....it’s readily available. If that’s the case, why must the rest of us wear masks because some people are either careless or too lazy to get the vaccine? That’s nuts.

Who sent you the e-mail? As for not getting the vax, some people are unable to get it.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Who sent you the e-mail? As for not getting the vax, some people are unable to get it.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Sent by a member of a group we belong to, and it was worthy of an eye roll. If someone can’t get the vaccine for some health reason, shouldn’t they be the ones to take precautions? I don’t want to be callous, but wearing masks long term seems ridiculous. From a purely selfish standpoint, hearing/understanding the mask wearer speak is very difficult. JMO

[gillygirl]

Sent by a member of a group we belong to, and it was worthy of an eye roll. If someone can’t get the vaccine for some health reason, shouldn’t they be the ones to take precautions? I don’t want to be callous, but wearing masks long term seems ridiculous. From a purely selfish standpoint, hearing/understanding the mask wearer speak is very difficult. JMO

Completely agree, although I am curious to see how the numbers go in a couple of weeks. My sister was at a bar a couple of nights ago. She said it looked like a super spreader event. And that’s from someone who has been in FL since September.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)