$3,995,000 - Wow...

[Winilyme]

I've kept a close eye on Winni lakefront real estate listings for six years. At this point, in most cases, I can get a pretty good sense of when things are priced in the right ballpark (or at least I could pre-COVID). But every once in awhile I come across a listing that I totally don't get and this is one of them. I just can't imagine this home going for anywhere close to what's being asked. To me, knowing only what I read in the listing, this seems to be at least $1.0M more than what I'd guess it could sell for, even in this market and even with 1.5 acres and 200 feet waterfront.

Other than a fishing expedition and/or an overreaction to an obviously exuberant market, does it appear to you that this is a $4M dollar slice of heaven?

On the other hand, in this market, soon as I hit 'submit' it'll probably sell for $250K over asking.

https://nicolewatkins.com/listing/4839134/105-hauser-estates-road-moultonborough-nh-03254/

[Sue Doe-Nym]

That is a pretty terrific area, but that price does seem over the top. However, we have been chortling over the high prices, and just imagine what we could get if we put ours on the market, because it all seems just plain crazy! It will be interesting to see what the selling price is, and days on market.

[tummyman]

Current assessed value is $2,097,500

[tummyman]

Current assessed value for the property is $2,097,500. Compare it to 48 Catlin Estate Rd that is for sale as well. That property is for sale at $3,695,000 and assessed at $3,577,700 that has been on the market for 135 days.

[fatlazyless]

You know there's no Walmart in that Moultonborough area, in that Moultonborough, Tuftonboro, Tamworth, Ossipee, Wolfeboro greater metropolitan area ....... therefore ...... the closest Walmart is either in Gilford of Plymouth. That makes 105 Hauser Estates Rd a long, long, long drive just to go to the store for something ...... is a long drive from anywhere to that area in Moultonborough.

...... is too much out-in-the-country ..... but, without those out-in-country, backwoods, "in current use" greatly reduced property taxes.

[TiltonBB]

FLL: No worries! They have people to do their shopping for them and its a pretty good bet they don't go to Walmart.

[Susie Cougar]

I follow the Moultonborough real estate too. I know this area very well.
There was a house that sold on Bosn Way for $5 million in August. It had been listed for just under $6 million.

There was a house right around the corner that was for sale for $5 million. It did not sell and it was taken off the market. The house on Catlin Estate Road is just too big in my estimation.
If I had a choice, I would choose the house on Hauser Estates Road. Not every house will sell, but some people will get lucky.

[Biggd]

There are some properties that come on in this frothy market that people put on at high prices trying to see if they can catch the BIG fish. It will be interesting to see what happens in the spring.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[codeman671]

Someone that pays $4mil for that has more money than brains....In any market.

If that's the case my island property is going on for $1.5mil!

[fatlazyless]

Ten thousand dollars is the limit for deducting your state and local taxes, i.e. property taxes, from your annual federal income tax. I always thought this would have a big effect on NH lake front homes as their property tax surpasses the $10,000-limit ($5000 if married filling seperately). It has been in effect since tax year 2017, which was due in 2018, so it is still relatively new to the scene.

Google 'IRS tax topic No. 503' to read all about it.

[WinnisquamZ]

Someone that pays $4mil for that has more money than brains....In any market.

If that's the case my island property is going on for $1.5mil!

Agree. The question is if someone offered you 1.5 mill would you sell it? Always said if someone offered us 1mill we would sell. It appears by recent sales we can get it. But, now the number is 2 mill. Not greed, just small talk when the subject arises.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Ten thousand dollars is the limit for deducting your state and local taxes, i.e. property taxes, from your annual federal income tax. I always thought this would have a big effect on NH lake front homes as their property tax surpasses the $10,000-limit ($5000 if married filling seperately). It has been in effect since tax year 2017, which was due in 2018, so it is still relatively new to the scene.

Google 'IRS tax topic No. 503' to read all about it.You've repeated this message about a thousand times, I think we got it.

[mowtorman]

Nothing is worth more than someone is willing to pay you for it. A property listed in Center Harbor this summer sold for over a million more than the asking price in less than 48 hours with numerous bidders. This listing has a great sandy beach, morning to late afternoon sun, probably no sunsets tucked in behind what is now Avery Point. Protected cove, not much for direct impact boat traffic. No need to apply for no wake zones. Occasional bass fisherman sitting at the end of the dock. No more than 15 minutes to Heath's without traffic or easier by boat. No rafting in the area. The only thing that would have real impact would be a next door neighbor that either rents to large groups all summer or an avid boat owner with straight pipes or a PA system stereo and a large family with multiple jet skis. Someone might either knock it down or build it up. Soft sand bottom would easily take a large mushroom anchor for a mooring and is protected from both strong south and northwest winds. What's it worth to leave your boat for 2 weeks and know it will still be okay where you left it? Looks like the old Craig property they used to ski about every day with their Evinrude Rogue.

[Descant]

For $4MM, I'd want deeper water with a dock suitable for larger boats, not a temporary seasonal dock. Of course, if you just sold your house in the big city at $5MM to escape Covid, this could be a bargain.

[ApS]

There are some properties that come on in this frothy market that people put on at high prices trying to see if they can catch the BIG fish.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the spring.

When the vaccine is readily available? ;)

[codeman671]

Agree. The question is if someone offered you 1.5 mill would you sell it? Always said if someone offered us 1mill we would sell. It appears by recent sales we can get it. But, now the number is 2 mill. Not greed, just small talk when the subject arises.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Yes, I would take it and run in my case. Paid $445k this year but am putting well over $200k into it. It certainly will be desirable in the end, and worth more than my investment. But yes, I would take that money and run.

[Descant]

As always, if you sell for a high price, when it comes to buying an equivalent replacement, you will buy at a high price and lose your sweat equity. And maybe you paid substantial capital gains tax? Or, you sit on the sidelines, wishing you still had a summer place, and wait for the next recession.

[Biggd]

I was thinking the same thing. We bought a fixer upper 6 years ago for 200K. I've put 100K into it but that's mostly just materials because I've done 90% of the work myself. I was told I could probably get around 500K but I don't think I could buy a better place for that so what's the point? As always, if you sell for a high price, when it comes to buying an equivalent replacement, you will buy at a high price and lose your sweat equity. And maybe you paid substantial capital gains tax? Or, you sit on the sidelines, wishing you still had a summer place, and wait for the next recession.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[LIforrelaxin]

I have seen many listing from that agent that are aggressively priced. Most times I think it is just people see if they can get someone to bite.....

However a quick look at this listing... it is boosting the following:

- 200 ft. of water front
-- with evaluation of land being about 6K per foot on the water, the land evaluates at 1.2M

1.6 Acres of land so there is plenty of room
A nice beach and apparently rock less looking water front
(note this is not a pearched beach)
A long dock

So it has a lot to offer, that today, would be hard to get permitted.

Now is it worth 4M???? Well If someone will pay that I am sure it is..... But maybe just maybe, only part of the family wants to sell, and holding on to it is the real goal....

[Descant]

@Lifeorelaxin
"A nice beach and apparently rock less looking water front
(note this is not a perched beach)
A long dock"
The dock, a temporary seasonal dock, requires little, if any, permit except perhaps "permit by notification". You need a "long dock" when the water depth is insufficient to moor a boat with any significant draft, e.g. a 24' deep vee hull with I/O in the down position, and unable to lower it to leave the dock in years like 2020 and 2016. With a western exposure, the dock is exposed to prevailing NW winds and would be unlikely to hold anything larger than 20-24 feet, if that. A pontoon would perhaps draw less water, but with a lot of canvas would move the dock in any significant wind.
Winnipesaukee waterfront, to me, is for boaters. This is not a boating site. It's an old camp with new addition at exorbitant price.

[gillygirl]

@Lifeorelaxin

"A nice beach and apparently rock less looking water front

(note this is not a perched beach)

A long dock"

The dock, a temporary seasonal dock, requires little, if any, permit except perhaps "permit by notification". You need a "long dock" when the water depth is insufficient to moor a boat with any significant draft, e.g. a 24' deep vee hull with I/O in the down position, and unable to lower it to leave the dock in years like 2020 and 2016. With a western exposure, the dock is exposed to prevailing NW winds and would be unlikely to hold anything larger than 20-24 feet, if that. A pontoon would perhaps draw less water, but with a lot of canvas would move the dock in any significant wind.

Winnipesaukee waterfront, to me, is for boaters. This is not a boating site. It's an old camp with new addition at exorbitant price.

Have you looked at it on a map? Seems like a very protected location with regards to boat docking.

Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mswlogo]

Current assessed value is $2,097,500

Houses are selling for around 60% over town appraisal. My guess is it goes for around $3m.

2x town appraisal does happen, but unlikely in off season.

[winterh]

On average you may be correct on the sale vs assessment but this one is way off the mark. Someone taking a shot at the moon or a realtor who tried to buy the listing by convincing the owners he would get them more than others. The beach is nice but not at the expense of good docking and deep water. Maybe you find a newcomer who doesn't realize that or has other priorities than boating. Low 2's would be my guess if it sells at all but since I already own waterfront I would be happy to be proven wrong.

[Biggd]

Houses are selling for around 60% over town appraisal. My guess is it goes for around $3m.

2x town appraisal does happen, but unlikely in off season.When I bought my house 6 years ago the real estate agent said that property was selling right around town assessed value. Of course it was still a buyers market back then.
My assessed value has gone up 30% so 60% now sounds about right in this sellers market.

[fatlazyless]

With the Moultonborough property assessments likely to increase, here's hoping the town can agree to build a 15-million dollar community center. It needs to have a 5-million dollar indoor swimming pool, a 5-million dollar indoor ice arena, and a 5-million dollar indoor tennis and pickleball facility.

So, that's 5-mil each for swimming, ice, and tennis/pickleball which multiplied by three adds up to 15-mil. ....... :banana:

Here's to building that new 15-million dollar Moultonborough Community Center ...... way-to-go ...... M-0-U-L-T-O-N-B-O-R-O-U-G-H !!! ..... ugh, ugh, ugh

[Biggd]

With the Moultonborough property assessments likely to increase, here's hoping the town can agree to build a 15-million dollar community center. It needs to have a 5-million dollar indoor swimming pool, a 5-million dollar indoor ice arena, and a 5-million dollar indoor tennis and pickleball facility.

So, that's 5-mil each for swimming, ice, and tennis/pickleball which multiplied by three adds up to 15-mil. ....... :banana:

Here's to building that new 15-million dollar Moultonborough Community Center ...... way-to-go ...... M-0-U-L-T-O-N-B-O-R-O-U-G-H !!! ..... ugh, ugh, ughSo Moultonborough can get inline with all the other towns around the lake with high property taxes.

[MeredithMan]

With the Moultonborough property assessments likely to increase, here's hoping the town can agree to build a 15-million dollar community center. It needs to have a 5-million dollar indoor swimming pool, a 5-million dollar indoor ice arena, and a 5-million dollar indoor tennis and pickleball facility.

So, that's 5-mil each for swimming, ice, and tennis/pickleball which multiplied by three adds up to 15-mil. ....... :banana:

Here's to building that new 15-million dollar Moultonborough Community Center ...... way-to-go ...... M-0-U-L-T-O-N-B-O-R-O-U-G-H !!! ..... ugh, ugh, ugh

I thought this was voted down...again...just recently?

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I thought this was voted down...again...just recently?

Oh yes! It’s an annual event.....having it put on the docket as a warrant article. It’s the “I want, I want, I need, I gotta have it!” crowd vs. the frugal property owners who would have the privilege of funding it. It never ends...

[Jdarby]

That price tag and no air conditioning!? I guess if you have that kind of money to blow on a property like that, you can pay people to fan and spritz you with cool water mist!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[winterh]

I have not paid much attention to what they were trying to do in Moultonboro as I am not a resident but is that what it was? 15 million! An ice rink, tennis and community center! Thats a big ask for a small town. If an ice rink or tennis or fitness even remotely made financial sense then I would guess someone in the private sector would step up. It does not make sense so they must have the tax payers pick it up.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I have not paid much attention to what they were trying to do in Moultonboro as I am not a resident but is that what it was? 15 million! An ice rink, tennis and community center! Thats a big ask for a small town. If an ice rink or tennis or fitness even remotely made financial sense then I would guess someone in the private sector would step up. It does not make sense so they must have the tax payers pick it up.

Winter, FLL is just having a little fun....$15 million is not the figure, but who knows? Maybe they’ll up it to that figure. 🤨 The waterfront taxpayers are not in favor of needless spending.

[mswlogo]

On average you may be correct on the sale vs assessment but this one is way off the mark. Someone taking a shot at the moon or a realtor who tried to buy the listing by convincing the owners he would get them more than others. The beach is nice but not at the expense of good docking and deep water. Maybe you find a newcomer who doesn't realize that or has other priorities than boating. Low 2's would be my guess if it sells at all but since I already own waterfront I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Well that’s the thing. Newcomers have no idea of all the pros and cons of deep water access, water quality, exposure, dust, wind, exposure to the broads , septic limits etc.

The town appraisals don’t factor in a lot of those details either.

Took me 3 properties and 30 years to figure it all out :)

There are $5m properties that I wouldn’t buy if I could get it for $1m because of compromises I would not make at the $1m Mark. I want gorgeous sunsets without being exposed to “the broads”. Among 20 other things. Not easy to find.

[Prestige Worldwide]

I've kept a close eye on Winni lakefront real estate listings for six years. At this point, in most cases, I can get a pretty good sense of when things are priced in the right ballpark (or at least I could pre-COVID). But every once in awhile I come across a listing that I totally don't get and this is one of them. I just can't imagine this home going for anywhere close to what's being asked. To me, knowing only what I read in the listing, this seems to be at least $1.0M more than what I'd guess it could sell for, even in this market and even with 1.5 acres and 200 feet waterfront.

Other than a fishing expedition and/or an overreaction to an obviously exuberant market, does it appear to you that this is a $4M dollar slice of heaven?

On the other hand, in this market, soon as I hit 'submit' it'll probably sell for $250K over asking.

https://nicolewatkins.com/listing/4839134/105-hauser-estates-road-moultonborough-nh-03254/

It’s the location. Nice and close to Braun Bay.

16591

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[mowtorman]

Covid Cove? Hot Springs Sands?

[TFP]

Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I can’t imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldn’t be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money I’d want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who can’t be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the “4 million dollar” home I’m purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, I’d want to present a much better image.

[Winilyme]

Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I can’t imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldn’t be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money I’d want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who can’t be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the “4 million dollar” home I’m purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, I’d want to present a much better image.

Great points - all of them. Even though those things didn't fully sink in when I opened the thread, I think your observations are a big part of why I shook my head in puzzlement over this listing. Also note the roof which is covered in pine needles. Blowing that off would have taken all of 30 minutes. The messy beach when looking out toward the water could have been cleaned up too. Look at comparatively priced listings and they are clean - if not pristine. Now of course, that may not be the everyday reality but staging the listing is an important part of selling it.

[ishoot308]

Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I can’t imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldn’t be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money I’d want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who can’t be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the “4 million dollar” home I’m purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, I’d want to present a much better image.

Couldn’t agree more! Professional pics are a must! I wouldn’t hire a realtor that doesn’t use a professional photographer to take property pics.

Dan

[winterh]

I was looking at a new listing that just came on in Wolfeboro. Granted its not at 4 million but the pictures that accompany it made me laugh. Stained mattresses with no covers, closeups of toilets, rooms with a solitary chair..... A realtor who lists something like that might as well hang a sign that says " Don't hire me, I am a moron"

[WinnisquamZ]

Question, what is the current % rate for a listing?

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

I think it's 5% but someone with more knowledge may want to chime in.Question, what is the current % rate for a listing?

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[TiltonBB]

Generally 5% but many realtors will cut that to 4% if they sell it without another realtor involved.

If you are listing a property you don't really want to go below the 5% because many realtors will not show a co-broke property to a client if their half of the deal is not at least 2 1/2%.

[mswlogo]

Generally 5% but many realtors will cut that to 4% if they sell it without another realtor involved.

If you are listing a property you don't really want to go below the 5% because many realtors will not show a co-broke property to a client if their half of the deal is not at least 2 1/2%.

I think demand was so I high I couldn't get much response (as a buyer) from non listing agents. But when I called the listing agents they they were much more responsive.

[LIforrelaxin]

Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I can’t imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldn’t be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money I’d want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who can’t be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the “4 million dollar” home I’m purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, I’d want to present a much better image.

Are you fricken kidding me? You would let those things get in your way of considering a property?

The entire process of "staging" a property is over rated. Because if it is staged in a different way then a potential buyer would want to see it, it can actually work against you....

What if the owner prefers not to use a bed frame some people don't.... Just because you think they are necessary doesn't mean they are....

So a couple of Adirondack chairs are blown over.... what if the person looking at the photos doesn't even like Adirondack chairs....

Perception is important don't get me wrong. But the things mentioned here are frivolous... If I was able to afford to look at property for 4M$.... I am likely also planning to come in and spend an additional 500K - 1M$ to make updates to the property to make it mine...

Last if I was buying a 4M$ piece of property, I would also be investing some money, in a thorough inspection of the home including heating and hot water systems as well as the structure itself to insure I knew what I was buying.

In the end the pictures are fine... only nit picky people would be offended by them.

[mswlogo]

Are you fricken kidding me? You would let those things get in your way of considering a property?

The entire process of "staging" a property is over rated. Because if it is staged in a different way then a potential buyer would want to see it, it can actually work against you....

What if the owner prefers not to use a bed frame some people don't.... Just because you think they are necessary doesn't mean they are....

So a couple of Adirondack chairs are blown over.... what if the person looking at the photos doesn't even like Adirondack chairs....

Perception is important don't get me wrong. But the things mentioned here are frivolous... If I was able to afford to look at property for 4M$.... I am likely also planning to come in and spend an additional 500K - 1M$ to make updates to the property to make it mine...

Last if I was buying a 4M$ piece of property, I would also be investing some money, in a thorough inspection of the home including heating and hot water systems as well as the structure itself to insure I knew what I was buying.

In the end the pictures are fine... only nit picky people would be offended by them.

Likewise folks spending $4million could care less if it needs a new furnace.

I waived inspections to make my offers look stronger on several properties.

Inspections are mostly an escape clause or a plan to re-negotiate price and generally weaken your offer. You either really want the property or you don’t. You really gonna reject a $4m home over a leaky water heater? Or renegotiate for a $1000 off, when they have 2 cash backup offers waiting in wings? I don’t think so.

One place I made an offer on with no contingencies and site unseen.

That’s what you need to do in today’s market.

If you hesitate or put down any more contingencies than someone else, you’re out.

[codeman671]

It looks to me like someone just went with a "make me move" price on this. Shoot for the stars and if someone is dumb enough to pay it, pack up and go. There are far better properties on the lake for less money, even in todays market. The inside is clean but in need of updating. Outside the deck and roof looks ratty, it could certainly use maintenance and landscaping, and the driveway isn't even paved.

Maybe my freshly renovated island property should be $2mil now! :D

[joey2665]

Likewise folks spending $4million could care less if it needs a new furnace.

I waived inspections to make my offers look stronger on several properties.

Inspections are mostly an escape clause or a plan to re-negotiate price and generally weaken your offer. You either really want the property or you don’t. You really gonna reject a $4m home over a leaky water heater? Or renegotiate for a $1000 off, when they have 2 cash backup offers waiting in wings? I don’t think so.

One place I made an offer on with no contingencies and site unseen.

That’s what you need to do in today’s market.

If you hesitate or put down any more contingencies than someone else, you’re out.

You are definitely underestimating inspections. You have only highlighted small issues and left out major expensive issues such as structural integrity of framing, HVAC, roof replacement, foundation issues, mold, termites, dry rot etc. many buyers use inspections to justify they are paying for what they think they are getting and not as a negotiation tool.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

You are definitely underestimating inspections. You have only highlighted small issues and left out major expensive issues such as structural integrity of framing, HVAC, roof replacement, foundation issues, mold, termites, dry rot etc. many buyers use inspections to justify they are paying for what they think they are getting and not as a negotiation tool.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Agreed, esp in this market where you are possibly paying over listing to get the property.
If it was a buyers market and you are making an offer well below listing then sometimes waving the inspection is a great tool knowing that you are going to go in and rehab the property anyway.

[Formula260SS]

Likewise folks spending $4million could care less if it needs a new furnace.

I waived inspections to make my offers look stronger on several properties.

Inspections are mostly an escape clause or a plan to re-negotiate price and generally weaken your offer. You either really want the property or you don’t. You really gonna reject a $4m home over a leaky water heater? Or renegotiate for a $1000 off, when they have 2 cash backup offers waiting in wings? I don’t think so.

One place I made an offer on with no contingencies and site unseen.

That’s what you need to do in today’s market.

If you hesitate or put down any more contingencies than someone else, you’re out.

I agree people use inspections for re-negotiations, it's unbelievable what's happening to a friend. They are picking apart every little nit picky thing on what is clearly a perfect condition house. It's causing him a lot of unnecessary pain as he finally said sorry no deal and moved onto the next offer he had. I have a good friend who owns a real estate business in Mass with 6 offices - she HATES what it's all turned into.

I also agree on a 4M property that the owners are dumping another $$$ into it and most likely only care about the big ticket stuff which is not the furnace.

[Descant]

I think by now, we're all agreed that this is not a $4MM property.
I'm not generally enthusiastic about home inspections, but last house, I took my HVAC guy with me for the walk through. (No charge) He said the furnace was no good and the seller knocked $5K off without hesitation. He apparently had more credibility than a home inspector. Ironic to me however, is that wouldn't buy a boat without a survey. My experience is that boat surveys, at least on larger boats are more detailed than home inspections--multi: engines, heads, AC systems, electric systems, generator etc, etc. I had one home inspector turn on a furnace, it fired and he turned it off, gave a good report. In reality, the furnace would only run about 5 minutes and then shut itself off because the system was perforated and it would pump CO into the house. His fee was a waste. Yes, I know banks require it, if that's how you're buying.

[DesertDweller]

I think there are some broad generalizations being made. A lot of people that have accumulated the wealth needed to afford a $4mm house got that way because they invested wisely and didn't squander money. I agree that people that drop that kind of coin on a house will likely want to make improvements to make the house fit their tastes. I don't consider replacing a furnace, a roof, etc. an improvement. It's deferred maintenance the prior owner should have done and reduces the budget for putting in flooring, kitchens, etc. If someone is looking at that house and seeing plastic adirondack chairs all over the back yard, a roof covered in pine needles, etc. I think a pretty fair question to ask is what kind of care of the house did the owner take.

Regarding the price tag, that neighborhood is around the corner from me and is really nice but that house isn't a $4mm house.

[mswlogo]

As far as inspections go. If it’s a 30 year old house and the original HVAC. It doesn’t matter if it works or not. It’s essentially worthless. Similar on a roof, if it’s 20 years old it needs replacing “soon” if it leaks or not. If it’s a 10 year older house and the HVAC is broken, just fix it.

If the house is $250K these things matter. At $4M they are a minor nuisance.

Structural issues that are not obvious, in expensive homes are not that common.

Fir the most part, my experience with building inspectors on both sides has been a joke. But they can be handy for other reasons (for the buyer).

Septic inspection and site assessment are way more important.

[Winilyme]

Are you fricken kidding me? You would let those things get in your way of considering a property?

The entire process of "staging" a property is over rated. Because if it is staged in a different way then a potential buyer would want to see it, it can actually work against you....

What if the owner prefers not to use a bed frame some people don't.... Just because you think they are necessary doesn't mean they are....

So a couple of Adirondack chairs are blown over.... what if the person looking at the photos doesn't even like Adirondack chairs....

Perception is important don't get me wrong. But the things mentioned here are frivolous... If I was able to afford to look at property for 4M$.... I am likely also planning to come in and spend an additional 500K - 1M$ to make updates to the property to make it mine...

Last if I was buying a 4M$ piece of property, I would also be investing some money, in a thorough inspection of the home including heating and hot water systems as well as the structure itself to insure I knew what I was buying.

In the end the pictures are fine... only nit picky people would be offended by them.

Staging is not overrated. Nearly all real estate agents focus on this because first impressions are lasting ones and it gives them a competitive edge. They aren't doing it for fun. They will also tell you to paint the walls, get rid of personal photos, clean up the basement, re-carpet the dining room and maybe rearrange some furniture. Simply stated, a place that looks clean and well-cared for is more attractive than one that isn't. It gets folks in the door who might otherwise walk by. Especially these days when people make quick decisions over the Internet. If they see pictures of unkempt properties, then a perfectly qualified buyer just might just move on to the next listing. I would likely approach just such a property with, at a minimum, elevated suspicion.

Especially a property like this where they are trying to get $4M for a $2.5M+. Why wouldn't you take the simple extra steps to clean it up? Yes, a lot of it's smoke and mirrors, but if it gets more people in the door then why not? Take two properties, exactly the same, except one is clean and the other is not. The clean one is going to get more interest and better offers.

Of course, in a very narrow slice of some very rare market, such as Winni lakefront during this Pandemic, people are stumbling over one another to buy those properties, all the while practicing less due diligence than they would in normal times. Staging is probably less critical in these situations. However, this is the exception rather than the rule. Still, to get a bit of advantage, why wouldn't you just do the simple things at least? It doesn't take a huge amount of effort to turn the chairs over.

A good thing with all this is that there still are people, like the owner/realtor of this property, that apparently don't give a hoot about staging. That does create opportunities for folks like you, LIfor, that place little emphasis on these things and will always investigate further. Maybe you can get a better deal because of that. But in that case we're talking about an advantage for buyers/still a disadvantage for sellers.

[WinterHarborGuy]

From my personal experience over the last decade, I can give you a few comments on the marketing/photography of home sales from both the selling and buying perspective. Just my opinion...

Selling: In 2014, wife and I decided we were moving within Westchester County NY. We used a "friend" who was a well thought-of realtor. Well, we pulled the listing after 3 months and I believe we had less than 10 showings. There didn't seem to be too much interest. We paused to regroup.

We decided to try again, after a 6 month break. We thought about it and decided to research, ask questions, etc. We found the top realtor (by sales and reputation) in the area and decided to interview her. Turns out she interviewed us, as she was that in demand. She accepted us, put us through our paces...made us stage our house, remove things, etc. She brought in a professional photographer (on her dime). We had 40 realtors at the realtor open house. We had 2 offers on the day it was officially listed. Sold it for the same amount that the first realtor couldn't get a nibble at...

Buying: We purchased a home in Wolfeboro last year. I don't want to name names, but it was not marketed well, and because of that, it sat for 3-4 months and it should have sold quickly. The pictures were done with a cell phone. Because of that...even though we found the house late, we lucked out. Had it been marketed better, we'd not have been able to get it. Don't let lousy photos keep you away. As a buyer, poor marketing can be an ally, as you might have a diamond in the rough.

[FlyingScot]

I agree people use inspections for re-negotiations, it's unbelievable what's happening to a friend. They are picking apart every little nit picky thing on what is clearly a perfect condition house. It's causing him a lot of unnecessary pain as he finally said sorry no deal and moved onto the next offer he had. I have a good friend who owns a real estate business in Mass with 6 offices - she HATES what it's all turned into.

I also agree on a 4M property that the owners are dumping another $$$ into it and most likely only care about the big ticket stuff which is not the furnace.

Sellers need to tell buyers during the offer and accept phase not to bother trying to nickel and dime after the inspection process. That they will fix fundamental problems but not normal wear and tear.

[marinewife]

After reading all of the comments and looking at the listing, I just had to look up the owner.

He is a recent widower, and his wife of 63 years was a big contributor and volunteer to the M. Library for many years, as well as a Minister in Meredith. She passed 3 years ago.

At his age, I'm thinking he is less concerned with the chairs being down outside and just wants to downsize into a smaller home that doesn't hold so many memories.

I hope he gets though the winter in an easier place to manage.

[winterh]

As a fellow waterfront property owner I truly hope the owner of this place gets over the asking price. I think any negative comments are directed at the realtor rather than the owner. They either mislead the man into what could be expected in order to get the listing (very common) or all involved understand they are just taking a wild shot at the moon with nothing to lose. Either way given what the realtor would make on this deal a few of the pics could have been done a bit better.

[Biggd]

As a fellow waterfront property owner I truly hope the owner of this place gets over the asking price. I think any negative comments are directed at the realtor rather than the owner. They either mislead the man into what could be expected in order to get the listing (very common) or all involved understand they are just taking a wild shot at the moon with nothing to lose. Either way given what the realtor would make on this deal a few of the pics could have been done a bit better.A 4 million dollar property would pay a hefty commission. The reality should have taken it upon herself/himself to higher someone to clean the place up and take professional pictures.

[TFP]

I obviously meant the current owner no ill will and I wish him nothing but the best as he moves on from his home. And if someone pays him 4 million dollars for his home more power to him. At the end of the day he owns the place and I'm commenting on a message board in the middle of the work day to avoid the stacks of work on my desk.

However, I do agree with others that I think this reflects poorly on the realtor. If we assume a split of the 5% commission between the buying and selling realtors, and then also assume that the realtor splits half of the commission with their broker as I know many do: 5% of 4 million is 200,000, half of that is 100,000 and half of that is 50,000. So we're looking a possible 50k dollar payday for the realtor and they didn't put the effort in to tidying up the place a little. Sweeping, raking, and stacking chairs doesn't cost any money.

And LIforrelaxing, while you might argue that staging is pointless because rich people will spend money anyhow, I don't think you turn anyone off by having the place look well kempt. In other words, no one looks at a clean porch on the listing and says "Nope, not for me, I don't see pine needles all over the place and how dare they neatly arrange their chairs around the fire pit." Yet, posting it the way they did turned me and at least a few others off.

Also, how far does the "rich people are gonna spend money anyways" theory go? If you bought a new Bentley Continental GT should you expect the car to be clean when you pick it up at the dealer? Or is it assumed since you have the money to buy the Bentley you have the money to take it through the car wash too?

[tis]

I think that house had to be at least partially staged. I can't imagine a single 83 year old man keeping his house like that.

[codeman671]

I obviously meant the current owner no ill will and I wish him nothing but the best as he moves on from his home. And if someone pays him 4 million dollars for his home more power to him. At the end of the day he owns the place and I'm commenting on a message board in the middle of the work day to avoid the stacks of work on my desk.

However, I do agree with others that I think this reflects poorly on the realtor. If we assume a split of the 5% commission between the buying and selling realtors, and then also assume that the realtor splits half of the commission with their broker as I know many do: 5% of 4 million is 200,000, half of that is 100,000 and half of that is 50,000. So we're looking a possible 50k dollar payday for the realtor and they didn't put the effort in to tidying up the place a little. Sweeping, raking, and stacking chairs doesn't cost any money.

And LIforrelaxing, while you might argue that staging is pointless because rich people will spend money anyhow, I don't think you turn anyone off by having the place look well kempt. In other words, no one looks at a clean porch on the listing and says "Nope, not for me, I don't see pine needles all over the place and how dare they neatly arrange their chairs around the fire pit." Yet, posting it the way they did turned me and at least a few others off.

Also, how far does the "rich people are gonna spend money anyways" theory go? If you bought a new Bentley Continental GT should you expect the car to be clean when you pick it up at the dealer? Or is it assumed since you have the money to buy the Bentley you have the money to take it through the car wash too?

Agents typically don't split 50/50 with their broker unless they cut a really bad deal when they signed on. Sometimes listing agents will favor the split towards themselves, like a 3% to listing agent/ 2% to buyers agent. This usually pisses off buyers agents, but money is money.

[Biggd]

Agents typically don't split 50/50 with their broker unless they cut a really bad deal when they signed on. Sometimes listing agents will favor the split towards themselves, like a 3% to listing agent/ 2% to buyers agent. This usually pisses off buyers agents, but money is money.The listing office gets a cut also so that's usually why the listing agent gets more.

[TFP]

Agents typically don't split 50/50 with their broker unless they cut a really bad deal when they signed on. Sometimes listing agents will favor the split towards themselves, like a 3% to listing agent/ 2% to buyers agent. This usually pisses off buyers agents, but money is money.

I absolutely stand corrected then. If anything I was trying to put together the most conservative estimate of what the listing agent stood to gain. And again, no insult intended to anyone involved, just some constructive criticism from the cheap seats.

[WillyK]

Well, they've dropped the listing price almost 20% down to $3.25M. Still too high IMO, I think if they sell at all, it'll be in the $2.0 - $2.5 range.

[marinewife]

I recently spoke to a local realtor to ask who are the people selling their homes here to the newcomers (mostly MA 80%, then CT, NY, NJ buyers), and was surprised by the answer.

Many of the sales are from elderly people who don't want to keep up with a 2nd home and would rather cash out in a good market, feeling they can always rent for a few summer weeks if they miss the area.

Another group- the adult children of the recently deceased (or their parents have moved to a long term facility) and are unwilling or cannot come to an agreement on covering the costs of keeping the family vacation home, vacation black out days, whether to rent it out, etc.

This group is typically where the selling price seems too high or unreasonable- there's in-fighting, one sibling may want to keep it, and the others want the money instead- many price it higher, against a realtor's instincts, hoping some out of towner will jump at it.

Lastly, those that are divorcing are selling their vacation homes as well.

I just hope the new residents are friendly, adapt to NH, and don't try to change what we have here.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Marinewife, your seller/buyer summary is very interesting. We fall into the senior category, and we were just discussing the headaches involved in owning 2 properties, 1500 miles apart. We both dislike extreme temperatures....Florida is beastly hot from May through September, and we all know how frigid it is here during the winter months, but it’s nice having the option of going to either one when you want to....plus you have your own belongings, etc, and don’t have to worry about what creature occupied the place the week before. 🤨 It’s a tough one, and the older you get, the less patience and ability you have to cope with problems that come up. A dilemma, for sure.

[thinkxingu]

Marinewife, your seller/buyer summary is very interesting. We fall into the senior category, and we were just discussing the headaches involved in owning 2 properties, 1500 miles apart. We both dislike extreme temperatures....Florida is beastly hot from May through September, and we all know how frigid it is here during the winter months, but it’s nice having the option of going to either one when you want to....plus you have your own belongings, etc, and don’t have to worry about what creature occupied the place the week before. [emoji2955] It’s a tough one, and the older you get, the less patience and ability you have to cope with problems that come up. A dilemma, for sure.Is there not a place that's temperature all year? The Carolinas? Arizona? I don't really know, but my wife and I have often talked about our future in retirement and am interested in knowing options other than what you've identified.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I guess there’s no perfect place.....some have claimed that the panhandle of Florida is more temperate....also some love Hilton Head, SC. For you, I would think that anywhere South, and hanging on to Arcadia, would be perfect.

[marinewife]

I spent over 3 years doing research on where to move before moving here.

Being an East Coast person for most of my life, I couldn't picture moving out west
and dealing with a completely different set of issues and unknowns.

The south, well, I don't think real southerners seem to accept or appreciate northerners, I could be wrong. There's a recent study on where people move from and to for all 50 states, and the south has maybe 5-10% of northerners in SC, NC and FL, mostly due to weather. I have relatives who moved to FL and NC, and while they're in gated communities or regular neighborhood homes, they say the people are different.

That left the mid-Atlantic and NE states. Tax-wise and in terms of natural beauty, NH seemed to have the best circumstances for me.

While I would love a shorter winter than what is up here, I guess my answer will be to rent somewhere for a few weeks to get a break from the cold. I think if I had two houses, I'd always be worried about the one I WASN'T in during any weather issue, and I'm getting too old for constant worry.

~just my two cents

[MeredithMan]

I recently spoke to a local realtor to ask who are the people selling their homes here to the newcomers (mostly MA 80%, then CT, NY, NJ buyers), and was surprised by the answer.

Many of the sales are from elderly people who don't want to keep up with a 2nd home and would rather cash out in a good market, feeling they can always rent for a few summer weeks if they miss the area.

Another group- the adult children of the recently deceased (or their parents have moved to a long term facility) and are unwilling or cannot come to an agreement on covering the costs of keeping the family vacation home, vacation black out days, whether to rent it out, etc.

This group is typically where the selling price seems too high or unreasonable- there's in-fighting, one sibling may want to keep it, and the others want the money instead- many price it higher, against a realtor's instincts, hoping some out of towner will jump at it.

Lastly, those that are divorcing are selling their vacation homes as well.

I just hope the new residents are friendly, adapt to NH, and don't try to change what we have here.

Way back in the 70's, when my parents bought their vaca home at the lake, their realtor, who was also a family friend, told them that 2nd homes are mainly put up for sale because either the owners are old and can't afford it or keep it up anymore, or the kids don't want it, (or they can't afford it), or there's a life-changing event, like a divorce, major illness, spouse death, etc. So it's really no different right now, with the exception of the sudden huge spike in prices that is maybe motivating some folks to sell to take the money and run. I also believe that the majority of 2nd home owners have always been out-of-staters, so again, I don't think there is anything new going on.

Mr Think:

To your point of where to go in retirement, we are having that same discussion in our house. We envision being at the lake 1/2 the year and "somewhere more south" the other part of the year, but we don't know where. Neither of us like FL...we have some friends in SC who absolutely love it, but we've never been there. I guess the thing to do is pick a few places and do some long weekends or a week or two there to get a feel for the areas. Then we'll be the out-of-staters that the locals will hate...HA:laugh:

[thinkxingu]

Way back in the 70's, when my parents bought their vaca home at the lake, their realtor, who was also a family friend, told them that 2nd homes are mainly put up for sale because either the owners are old and can't afford it or keep it up anymore, or the kids don't want it, (or they can't afford it), or there's a life-changing event, like a divorce, major illness, spouse death, etc. So it's really no different right now, with the exception of the sudden huge spike in prices that is maybe motivating some folks to sell to take the money and run. I also believe that the majority of 2nd home owners have always been out-of-staters, so again, I don't think there is anything new going on.

Mr Think:

To your point of where to go in retirement, we are having that same discussion in our house. We envision being at the lake 1/2 the year and "somewhere more south" the other part of the year, but we don't know where. Neither of us like FL...we have some friends in SC who absolutely love it, but we've never been there. I guess the thing to do is pick a few places and do some long weekends or a week or two there to get a feel for the areas. Then we'll be the out-of-staters that the locals will hate...HA[emoji23]This appears to be something many here are familiar, or are dealing, with, so I'll start a new thread!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[LakeTimes]

I've kept a close eye on Winni lakefront real estate listings for six years. At this point, in most cases, I can get a pretty good sense of when things are priced in the right ballpark (or at least I could pre-COVID). But every once in awhile I come across a listing that I totally don't get and this is one of them. I just can't imagine this home going for anywhere close to what's being asked. To me, knowing only what I read in the listing, this seems to be at least $1.0M more than what I'd guess it could sell for, even in this market and even with 1.5 acres and 200 feet waterfront.

Other than a fishing expedition and/or an overreaction to an obviously exuberant market, does it appear to you that this is a $4M dollar slice of heaven?

On the other hand, in this market, soon as I hit 'submit' it'll probably sell for $250K over asking.

https://nicolewatkins.com/listing/4839134/105-hauser-estates-road-moultonborough-nh-03254/

Unreal. Now under contract... We shall see what it will actually sell for... Dropped from original asking of $3.995M to currently listed at $3.25M.

[Descant]

$1.5 and two days free bulldozer work. It isn't a $3MM house.

[swnoel]

I love it when you start seeing panic buying...

[LakeTimes]

I love it when you start seeing panic buying...

No better position to be in as a seller!

Let me guess - Cash, no inspections, no contingencies, close within 30 - 45 or however fast the seller can get their ducks in a row.

[sky's]

$1.5 and two days free bulldozer work. It isn't a $3MM house.

thank you water front owners for paying my property tax!! THANK YOU

[phoenix]

in the end a house is worth what one person is willing to pay

[steve-on-mark]

thank you water front owners for paying my property tax!! THANK YOUYou're very welcome!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Today, 518 Weirs Blvd. 540 sq ft condo cottage, $399K. Really! :eek:

[TheRoBoat]

https://www.redfin.com/NH/Moultonborough/105-Hauser-Estates-Rd-03254/home/103718250

[Biggd]

https://www.redfin.com/NH/Moultonborough/105-Hauser-Estates-Rd-03254/home/103718250Prices just keep going up, and up, and up. Where it will stop, no body knows? :rolleye1:

[TheRoBoat]

The condo's price per square foot was more than the house

[WinnisquamZ]

Rates are still under 4% and demand is high. Those of us that are already here and have experienced these “bubbles” in the past just watch and warn. Unless, you are willing to cash out it’s only Monopoly money. Oh course, a new boat always look fine


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Rates are still under 4% and demand is high. Those of us that are already here and have experienced these “bubbles” in the past just watch and warn. Unless, you are willing to cash out it’s only Monopoly money. Oh course, a new boat always look fine


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I've been through many of these boom/bust cycles too but this one feels different. Many of the buyers now seem more likely to make the lakes region their full time residence than in the past, when places where mostly second home purchases. I imagine when rates go up it will slow things down quite a bit.
JMO, I could be wrong for the second time in my life. :laugh:

[WinnisquamZ]

I've been through many of these boom/bust cycles too but this one feels different. Many of the buyers now seem more likely to make the lakes region their full time residence than in the past, where places where mostly second home purchases. I imagine when rates go up it will slow things down quite a bit.
JMO, I could be wrong for the second time in my life. :laugh:

Are you going to make us ask, what was the first?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Are you going to make us ask, what was the first?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)The first was the 80's Savings & Loan crisis that caved the real estate market. That was the only time in my life I lost money on real estate.
But I bet you were expecting a different answer. There are a few people on this site that know me so I have to be careful what I say. :D

[WinnisquamZ]

No I was not. My first was the fall of 82’. A neighbor who was a professor at the local university asked me to come see his new IBM home computer. During the power up the name “Microsoft” shows up on the screen and I ask what is that. He says “nothing, just some software stuff that turns the screen on”


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

No I was not. My first was the fall of 82’. A neighbor who was a professor at the local university asked me to come see his new IBM home computer. During the power up the name “Microsoft” shows up on the screen and I ask what is that. He says “nothing, just some software stuff that turns the screen on”


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I had my first Auto repair shop back in the late 80's and I use to tell all my customers to buy a Toyota Camry, when they asked me what car to buy.
If I only bought stock in Toyota back then. :( But I don't consider that a mistake, just an oversight.

[mswlogo]

I had my first Auto repair shop back in the late 80's and I use to tell all my customers to buy a Toyota Camry, when they asked me what car to buy.
If I only bought stock in Toyota back then. :( But I don't consider that a mistake, just an oversight.

I bought a Tesla in the start of 2019.
A co-worker said buy their stock.
It was $60.00

It’s now $700-ish 10x in 18 months.

He is still telling me to buy their stock.

[TiltonBB]

Wrong? I had a friend who worked on a postal distribution center in 2004. He remarked about all the Netflix envelopes with movie discs coming and going. A light should have gone on in my head, but it didn't.

About the real estate market: The major home builders in Florida (and maybe elsewhere) have put a freeze on sales. Lennar is the biggest national home builder and they have stopped writing orders as of about 6 weeks ago. If you stop into one of their gated communities the salespeople will take your name and number and tell you they will call when they can start writing orders again.

With the cost of building materials up over 30%, and the back log of orders, they felt it was prudent to put a temporary hold on. They are currently running 9 to 12 months from order to completion and were also concerned about where the market was going.

The market is moving fast. I sold a house in Florida in January for over my asking price and the realtor told me in April it was worth $100,000 more than I got. Ouch! Maybe I should also list that among my many mistakes!

[Kamper]

Are you up for a gamble? It's a sellers market right now but home ownership has a usual turnover of 5 years. If you have somewhere else to live in the meantime, you could sell your house now and buy it back in 5 years at a possibly lower price.

I only own one house and have no desire to live in my camper so this doesn't help me but I bet a few speculators will give this strategy a shot!

Good luck!

[Biggd]

Are you up for a gamble? It's a sellers market right now but home ownership has a usual turnover of 5 years. If you have somewhere else to live in the meantime, you could sell your house now and buy it back in 5 years at a possibly lower price.

I only own one house and have no desire to live in my camper so this doesn't help me but I bet a few speculators will give this strategy a shot!

Good luck!I have a friend that just sold their home and are going to live on their boat for a while and see how this all plays out.
They are in their 50's and all the kids are out of the house and on their own. They said they may just head south in the winter, with or without the boat?
A little too close quarters for me!

[Biggd]

I bought a Tesla in the start of 2019.
A co-worker said buy their stock.
It was $60.00

It’s now $700-ish 10x in 18 months.

He is still telling me to buy their stock.Could have been a Teslanaire?:eek:

[Lkin]

Back about September, i was offered a waterfront home on meredith neck for 1.5m. Having just started my search, and being unaware at the time about the market conditions, I balked. The house needed a lot if work! It was a 250k house on an expensive lot! It went on the market and sold for over 1.6m! Seller made a 40% profit in less than half a year!
I wonder if the house would go for even more now.
A previous poster mentioned someone selling their home and living on a boat. I'm thinking of that in my motorhome!
This market is insane!

Sent from my SM-T830 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[TheTimeTraveler]

Put it this way; it's a great time to sell a marginal type property. Something which may have hung on the market for years will now sell in just a matter of hours! And likely sell for far more than it is actually worth!

Hang in there folks; what goes up "usually" comes down. Of course we are currently in unusual times!

[Biggd]

Time Traveler, travel into the future 5 years from now and let us know what happens?[emoji16]Put it this way; it's a great time to sell a marginal type property. Something which may have hung on the market for years will now sell in just a matter of hours! And likely sell for far more than it is actually worth!

Hang in there folks; what goes up "usually" comes down. Of course we are currently in unusual times!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[TiltonBB]

Across the Lakes Region, home prices have increased by double digits in the past 12 months and inventory is very low.

Home prices have risen 12.7 percent in Laconia, 14.2 percent in Alton, 18.3 percent in Meredith, and 18.9 percent in Gilford.

From the Laconia Sun:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/cash-is-king-as-real-estate-market-keeps-soaring/article_e54ae3a8-a9f2-11eb-8b0a-d70b264d4476.html

[Biggd]

Across the Lakes Region, home prices have increased by double digits in the past 12 months and inventory is very low.

Home prices have risen 12.7 percent in Laconia, 14.2 percent in Alton, 18.3 percent in Meredith, and 18.9 percent in Gilford.

From the Laconia Sun:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/cash-is-king-as-real-estate-market-keeps-soaring/article_e54ae3a8-a9f2-11eb-8b0a-d70b264d4476.html"This place has literally been discovered." :eek: It's going to be a crazy summer. :rolleye1:

[Kamper]

"This place has literally been discovered." :eek: It's going to be a crazy summer. :rolleye1:

My wife has been after me to replace the boat I sold a few years back. After the pandemic there may be a few bargains for things like that too.

[winterh]

"This place has literally been discovered." :eek: It's going to be a crazy summer. :rolleye1:

I know the waterfront prices on Winni look crazy but they are really not when you compare them to top lakes in other parts of the country. It's a bargain compared to Lake Tahoe.

[WillyK]

On the main topic of this thread, the house at Hauser Estates appears to have closed at a price of $3M. Which still seems a few standard deviations above sane, even for this current climate. To be fair, I’ve never seen the property in person, but for $3M (vs. other things in that price range on the lake), it must show VERY well. Or else there’s something really unique about the site for future expansion or similar.

Shrug. As a recent lake owner, here’s hoping this is a new normal, I guess…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mswlogo]

On the main topic of this thread, the house at Hauser Estates appears to have closed at a price of $3M. Which still seems a few standard deviations above sane, even for this current climate. To be fair, I’ve never seen the property in person, but for $3M (vs. other things in that price range on the lake), it must show VERY well. Or else there’s something really unique about the site for future expansion or similar.

Shrug. As a recent lake owner, here’s hoping this is a new normal, I guess…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Exactly what I said it would close at.

[WillyK]

Exactly what I said it would close at.

Yeah, good call. Your "1.6x assessed value" heuristic was a good call, gotta keep that one in mind.

[erk]

I know the waterfront prices on Winni look crazy but they are really not when you compare them to top lakes in other parts of the country. It's a bargain compared to Lake Tahoe.

Just got back from a week at Lake Coeur d'Alene ID and I'd say lake front properties are 15 - 20% higher there. It's a beautiful area but I'd take Lake Winni any day!!

[Biggd]

OK, so the place directly accross the street from me on Lake waukewan, an A frame built in the 60's, just went on the market for 1.5 million. The lady bought it last June for 550K and completely remodeled it, but it's still an A frame. I'm guessing she put 400K into it. I know when she first bought it she was getting estimates around 300K but 6 months in she told me the price jumped considerably. It was completely gutted and a new 3 bedroom septic installed. This market just keeps getting crazier!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MAXUM]

Just got back from a week at Lake Coeur d'Alene ID and I'd say lake front properties are 15 - 20% higher there. It's a beautiful area but I'd take Lake Winni any day!!

Ah but you have to look at the entire picture not just sale price. Property taxes out there are a fraction of what they are here so while the cost to get in may be higher the cost to carry is far lower. So long term a better value in my opinion even with a higher sale price. That is what keeps property prices here to some degree in check as they are very high comparatively speaking with a few exceptions. They (Idaho) also have the homestead exemption on primary residences which lowers the total assessed tax value. The calculation is 50% of assessed value capped at 100k in total reduction. Due to the increase in property values they are looking to increase the cap amount or have it adjust based on average market conditions year to year.

It is a beautiful area out there.

[Biggd]

I just read an article on Idaho that said there was a big influx of remote workers from California moving in making property prices sky rocket so it won't be long before property taxes follow suit.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MAXUM]

True but unlike places like Denver or Salt Lake City which also have experienced the same kind of growth, Idaho lacks industry outside of agriculture and mining. So once those remote jobs disappear folks are going to be holding very expensive property and a local economy that can’t support the rising costs - it will have to adjust just like everywhere else. I mean the average income in Boise is 31k a year where average houses are fetching well into the 400s something has to give.

[WillyK]

So new listing just up, 46 Rum Point Rd, Alton. Asking $3M for 2 bed, 1 bath, 1100 sq. ft.

Has that feel of another cash grab while the market is hot...but maybe I'm missing something about the property's appeal, I don't know Alton bay super well.

Any predictions on this one, mswlogo?

[winterh]

A large lot with a grandfathered footprint and 800 ft of waterfront on a point. That one is all about the lot.

[Biggd]

I was talking to a realtor last weekend and he said the market has started to show signs of peaking. He said people are still over pricing but buyers aren't over bidding anymore. He also said in all his years of selling property in the lakes region he has never seen so many cash sales.
I know a few places in my neighborhood that sold below asking but their asking prices were astronomically high to begin with.

[TheTimeTraveler]

....just wait to see what happens to Real Estate prices when the stock market starts heading south.

[Descant]

....just wait to see what happens to Real Estate prices when the stock market starts heading south.
In 2017, the DJIA was starting at ~17000. It is now almost at 36000. So it drops 15% to 26000. Temporarily. We're all still way ahead. People will likely still be fleeing NY,NJ, CT. Waterfront will still be valuable. Buy whatever you can on the smaller lakes now. Comparatively, Ossipee and Newfound are probably cheap.

[John Mercier]

Housing actually leads the market.
It only seems the other way around because real estate is not valued minute to minute through the weekday.

As stated housing is very effected by location... so some will see softening prices long before others. And different sections of the housing market will act differently throughout the cycle.

[Biggd]

What's happening is because of extremely low interest rates and the run up in the stock market people are taking money out of their primary residences and buying second homes in cash at an alarming rate.
When we have a recession, and we will have one again, what will people do to save their primary residence from foreclosure if they can't keep up the payments? Do they sell their primary residence which could have a bigger mortgage than the sale would bring in or do they sell their second home with no mortgage for less than what they paid for it?
In past recessions vacation area's got hit the hardest and recovered the slowest but we are in a place where we've never been before in our economy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[mswlogo]

What's happening is because of extremely low interest rates and the run up in the stock market people are taking money out of their primary residences and buying second homes in cash at an alarming rate.
When we have a recession, and we will have one again, what will people do to save their primary residence from foreclosure if they can't keep up the payments? Do they sell their primary residence which could have a bigger mortgage than the sale would bring in or do they sell their second home with no mortgage for less than what they paid for it?
In past recessions vacation area's got hit the hardest and recovered the slowest but we are in a place where we've never been before in our economy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Great post.

Another thing to add to the unique situation is since the 2008 real estate crash is a lot of builders got out or went bankrupt. So there is a shortage of housing in general. It’s pretty hot in lots of places besides vacation areas. The low supply is a big part of rising prices.

A lot depends on “Pandemic 2.0”, and right now that’s not looking good at all.

I think a normal recession would not be so bad. But we could see the worst economic crisis ever a year from now if we see another COVID winter like the last. I think there is a 50-50 chance of that happening.

[Biggd]

Great post.

Another thing to add to the unique situation is since the 2008 real estate crash is a lot of builders got out or went bankrupt. So there is a shortage of housing in general. It’s pretty hot in lots of places besides vacation areas. The low supply is a big part of rising prices.

A lot depends on “Pandemic 2.0”, and right now that’s not looking good at all.

I think a normal recession would not be so bad. But we could see the worst economic crisis ever a year from now if we see another COVID winter like the last. I think there is a 50-50 chance of that happening.A lot of these younger home buyers, under 35, haven't experienced a real down turn in their working careers. How prepared are they when they lose their job and no one is hiring, will they panic sell?
I think it is more likely people still try to unload their second homes to try and save their primary home. When that happens inventory sky rockets, no one can afford to buy, and prices fall.
Just how far they fall depends on the length of the down turn and how long people can hold on.

[John Mercier]

Not sure that there are a lot of 35 year old people taking money out of their primary home to buy a second home - maybe pulling money from their retirement accounts.

[thinkxingu]

A lot of these younger home buyers, under 35, haven't experienced a real down turn in their working careers. How prepared are they when they lose their job and no one is hiring, will they panic sell?
I think it is more likely people still try to unload their second homes to try and save their primary home. When that happens inventory sky rockets, no one can afford to buy, and prices fall.
Just how far they fall depends on the length of the down turn and how long people can hold on.There are also a whole lot of people who have already forgotten what things were like in '08-'xx. Case in point: friends of ours just pulled out a ton of money from their home equity that will probably put them under water when values level off AND extended their loan to 30 again, putting the payoff ten years or so AFTER retirement. Crazy stuff, and here I am trying to be debt-free by 50 (won't happen, but it'll be close!).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Juiced06GTO]

My wife and I are fairly successful 37 and 36 year olds w three kids and I wouldn't have even close to enough money to pull out of my primary home to purchase a house on the lake haha! As a matter of fact it could be 100% paid off and I still would only be purchasing one of the vacant lots on Rattlesnake right now...

Now if I wasn't paying full time day care for three kids maybe I'd have a shot!

[joey2665]

What's happening is because of extremely low interest rates and the run up in the stock market people are taking money out of their primary residences and buying second homes in cash at an alarming rate.
When we have a recession, and we will have one again, what will people do to save their primary residence from foreclosure if they can't keep up the payments? Do they sell their primary residence which could have a bigger mortgage than the sale would bring in or do they sell their second home with no mortgage for less than what they paid for it?
In past recessions vacation area's got hit the hardest and recovered the slowest but we are in a place where we've never been before in our economy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I’m sorry but where exactly are you getting this statistic from? I find it extremely hard to believe people are pulling enough equity from there primary homes to buy a vacation home around the lake for cash. Maybe pulling equity out for a down payment I could easily see but enough to buy here in cash is highly unlikely for most.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Descant]

If you're buying, selling, financing real estate (or your boat) based on info on this Forum, you need to re-think your plans. Talk to YOUR OWN CPA, and investment advisor. If you have only ONE, you are probably under-advised. At the same time, you need some self-education so you're not paying these folks 1% each for overlapping advice. And note that Fisher investments and similar, who has a lot of convincing commercials, charges twice what you pay to many brokers who offer many more services through related banks.

[joey2665]

If you're buying, selling, financing real estate (or your boat) based on info on this Forum, you need to re-think your plans. Talk to YOUR OWN CPA, and investment advisor. If you have only ONE, you are probably under-advised. At the same time, you need some self-education so you're not paying these folks 1% each for overlapping advice. And note that Fisher investments and similar, who has a lot of convincing commercials, charges twice what you pay to many brokers who offer many more services through related banks.

Amen [emoji1317]!!!! Very well said!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

I’m sorry but where exactly are you getting this statistic from? I find it extremely hard to believe people are pulling enough equity from there primary homes to buy a vacation home around the lake for cash. Maybe pulling equity out for a down payment I could easily see but enough to buy here in cash is highly unlikely for most.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)This whole house of cards will fall when the next recession hits. No one ever really knows what causes them until after they hit but it will happen. It's unfortunate but there are winners and losers when the dust settles.

[Biggd]

My wife and I are fairly successful 37 and 36 year olds w three kids and I wouldn't have even close to enough money to pull out of my primary home to purchase a house on the lake haha! As a matter of fact it could be 100% paid off and I still would only be purchasing one of the vacant lots on Rattlesnake right now...

Now if I wasn't paying full time day care for three kids maybe I'd have a shot!I didn't say they are all buying multi million dollar lakefront homes. Not everyone can afford the vacation home of their dreams.
There are still modest affordable vacation homes in the mountains and around the smaller lakes of NH. Each family has to buy to their level of ability.
I know of a couple around your age with 3 small kids that just bought a 2br camp with beach rights on lake Ossipee with cash from their the refi of their primary residence.

[Biggd]

I’m sorry but where exactly are you getting this statistic from? I find it extremely hard to believe people are pulling enough equity from there primary homes to buy a vacation home around the lake for cash. Maybe pulling equity out for a down payment I could easily see but enough to buy here in cash is highly unlikely for most.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I know this is a Lake Winnipesaukee forum but I don't believe I said everyone is buying vacation homes around Lake Winni with cash from their primary home.
A vacation home can be anywhere people go to vacation. The economy doesn't revolve around just NH.

[joey2665]

I know this is a Lake Winnipesaukee forum but I don't believe I said everyone is buying vacation homes around Lake Winni with cash from their primary home.
A vacation home can be anywhere people go to vacation. The economy doesn't revolve around just NH.

OK that’s fine it’s not New Hampshire it’s all over the country but you show me where you found the statistics that say most people are cashing out the equity in their primary residence to buy vacation homes for cash. I just don’t think it’s true. honestly I think it’s nonsense.

And we could all speculate on whether they’ll be a recession or a large correction and the prices of real estate will plummet none of us knows for sure and as we seen recently the government and businesses alike including banks will do everything they can to try to avoid going into an extended term recession.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

OK that’s fine it’s not New Hampshire it’s all over the country but you show me where you found the statistics that say most people are cashing out the equity in their primary residence to buy vacation homes for cash. I just don’t think it’s true. honestly I think it’s nonsense.

And we could all speculate on whether they’ll be a recession or a large correction and the prices of real estate will plummet none of us knows for sure and as we seen recently the government and businesses alike including banks will do everything they can to try to avoid going into an extended term recession.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I'm sorry I can't give you statistical proof. I get my information from my best friends son who is one of the top 50 residential mortgage brokers in the country, he works through Leader Bank in Needham Ma. He tells me where the money is going and I believe him.

[joey2665]

I'm sorry I can't give you statistical proof. I get my information from my best friends son who is one of the top 50 mortgage brokers in the country, he works through Leader Bank in Needham Ma. He made almost 3 million dollars writing mortgages in 2020. He tells me where the money is going and I believe him.

Your source is one person really? I put no faith in that whatsoever. When you come back with some real statistics then we can continue the conversation


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Your source is one person really? I put no faith in that whatsoever. When you come back with some real statistics then we can continue the conversation


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)We don't need to continue this conversation. We really don't see eye to eye on many things.
You're free to believe what and who you want as am I.

[mswlogo]

I know this is a Lake Winnipesaukee forum but I don't believe I said everyone is buying vacation homes around Lake Winni with cash from their primary home.
A vacation home can be anywhere people go to vacation. The economy doesn't revolve around just NH.

One other thing folks keep forgetting.

A "Cash" offer does NOT mean the buyer has the cash sitting in their checking account.

All it means they are willing to write the contract with no contingency for a bank loan approval. With high demand it was often a necessity if you wanted a property to make a "cash" offer. I've done "cash" offers with every intention of getting a loan and I was confident I'd qualify for the loan and had more than enough down payment that would cover a low appraisel.

In the past you could save money making a "cash" offer because that was a more secure offer to the seller than a higher financed offer.

Although some sellers now demand that you have "proof of funds". But that does not mean you have to use those funds you used as proof. You could show them your retirement account and then go get a loan.

So nobody knows how all these homes were actually financed. Only what was written on the contract, which is totally irrelevant.

But I will say, there are a lot of people with a lot of cash.

I've "financed" every way imaginable :) Including have a bank loan approval on the contract when I intended to pay cash.

The only thing really required is you show up with a check on closing day. Where the money comes from and what was on the contract could be any thing.

My guess is 1/3 of the "cash" purchases were true cash purchases. They could have sold another property (possible with a bridge loan), refinance another property or did a standard mortgage. My guess is they surely had hefty down payments on hand though.

Also with the Septic Assessment requirement for water front, you can walk away from any contract if you just don't like the assessment. Most buyers don't know that though. So there is little risk in making a cash offer initially. And the assessment is technically not due until closing !!

For our last purchase I had money from a sale (that had no mortgage), but not enough to cover the new home. But I made cash offers well over what I had in cash. We had a good sized equity loan on our primary with no balance (great advice someone once gave me). So I just used that. But the seller demanded showing we had the cash so I showed them our IRA, which I never used. It's all fun and games.

[Biggd]

One other thing folks keep forgetting.

A "Cash" offer does NOT mean the buyer has the cash sitting in their checking account.

All it means they are willing to write the contract with no contingency for a bank loan approval. With high demand it was often a necessity if you wanted a property to make a "cash" offer. I've done "cash" offers with every intention of getting a loan and I was confident I'd qualify for the loan and had more than enough down payment that would cover a low appraisel.

In the past you could save money making a "cash" offer because that was a more secure offer to the seller than a higher financed offer.

Although some sellers now demand that you have "proof of funds". But that does not mean you have to use those funds you used as proof. You could show them your retirement account and then go get a loan.

So nobody knows how all these homes were actually financed. Only what was written on the contract, which is totally irrelevant.

But I will say, there are a lot of people with a lot of cash.

I've "financed" every way imaginable :) Including have a bank loan approval on the contract when I intended to pay cash.

The only thing really required is you show up with a check on closing day. Where the money comes from and what was on the contract could be any thing.

My guess is 1/3 of the "cash" purchases were true cash purchases. They could have sold another property (possible with a bridge loan), refinance another property or did a standard mortgage. My guess is they surely had hefty down payments on hand though.

Also with the Septic Assessment requirement for water front, you can walk away from any contract if you just don't like the assessment. Most buyers don't know that though. So there is little risk in making a cash offer initially. And the assessment is technically not due until closing !!

For our last purchase I had money from a sale (that had no mortgage), but not enough to cover the new home. But I made cash offers well over what I had in cash. We had a good sized equity loan on our primary with no balance (great advice someone once gave me). So I just used that. But the seller demanded showing we had the cash so I showed them our IRA, which I never used. It's all fun and games.Exactly, many cash offers are financed after the sale is made. No one really knows where all the money comes from other than the person writing the check.
When I said people are taking money out of their primary homes to buy vacation homes in cash it doesn't mean that all the money is coming from there but people have been tapping their home equity to the max because of these low rates that we may never see again. Many people are in debt to the max with the rates this low. Is it wise, only time will tell.
I'm just happy I don't have to worry about debt any more. I do have to admit though, that if I was younger I would be taking advantage of these low rates also because they will only go up from here.

[joey2665]

We don't need to continue this conversation. We really don't see eye to eye on many things.
You're free to believe what and who you want as am I.

Yes you are free to believe what you want but I do find it hypocritical when somebody post something you don’t believe you always ask for back up statistics and then the one time I ask for back up statistics and you can’t produce them. Have a great day


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Biggd]

Yes you are free to believe what you want but I do find it hypocritical when somebody post something you don’t believe you always ask for back up statistics and then the one time I ask for back up statistics and you can’t produce them. Have a great day


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I don't ask for statistics because I don't have faith in where they come from. I'm old school and believe in people I've had business relationships with through the years.
I think we're done here.

[fatlazyless]

Maybe this has already been mentioned in this thread, according to www.zillow.com this 105 Hauser Estates Rd, 1.66-acres with 200 feet waterfront, $3,995,000-asking price in Moultonborough was sold on April 23, 2021 for three million dollars. Was maybe listed in November, 2020?

Does Hauser Estates Rd get snow plowed by the town?

Does it get town trash pick-up?

Is there town water and sewer service?

Is there internet/tv service available?

How long a drive to the Market Basket and Walmart in Pymouth, NH? ...... 25-miles and 41-minutes drive ......probably driving Rt 25-B in Center Harbor and Rt 175 in Holderness/Ashland to get to Plymouth.

One thing is for sure about MoultonboroUGH .......MoultonboroUGH is a looooong waaaaaay from everywhere ....... is why MoultonboroUGH is spelled with an UGH! You ever notice that there's no UGH in Tuftonboro or Wolfeboro ...... so, why is that!

[Descant]

I'm sorry I can't give you statistical proof. I get my information from my best friends son who is one of the top 50 residential mortgage brokers in the country, he works through Leader Bank in Needham Ma. He made almost 3 million dollars writing mortgages in 2020. He tells me where the money is going and I believe him.

If I were paying cash for something, my broker might know, but I would have no reason to be in contact with a mortgage banker. If I'm using a HELOC for any purpose, I don't have to specify intended use when I open up the line of credit. When I bought a property this spring, I was (almost) able to do a wire transfer from Fidelity to the title company's escrow account. (The transaction was over the online limit, so I had to confirm with "the next representative" who happened to be in Dallas. 2 minutes. No mortgage officer would have any way of knowing about this transaction. He could get anecdotal, second hand information from a title company.
Leader Bank, only founded in 2002, lists three MA locations on their website and no reference to being licensed in other locales. That makes your young friend immeasurably impressive to be one of the top 50 in the country.

[Biggd]

If I were paying cash for something, my broker might know, but I would have no reason to be in contact with a mortgage banker. If I'm using a HELOC for any purpose, I don't have to specify intended use when I open up the line of credit. When I bought a property this spring, I was (almost) able to do a wire transfer from Fidelity to the title company's escrow account. (The transaction was over the online limit, so I had to confirm with "the next representative" who happened to be in Dallas. 2 minutes. No mortgage officer would have any way of knowing about this transaction. He could get anecdotal, second hand information from a title company.
Leader Bank, only founded in 2002, lists three MA locations on their website and no reference to being licensed in other locales. That makes your young friend immeasurably impressive to be one of the top 50 in the country.Look him up, Keith Hapenney. His resume is impressive.

[mswlogo]

Maybe this has already been mentioned in this thread, according to www.zillow.com this 105 Hauser Estates Rd, 1.66-acres with 200 feet waterfront, $3,995,000-asking price in Moultonborough was sold on April 23, 2021 for three million dollars. Was maybe listed in November, 2020?

Does Hauser Estates Rd get snow plowed by the town?

Does it get town trash pick-up?

Is there town water and sewer service?

Is there internet/tv service available?

How long a drive to the Market Basket and Walmart in Pymouth, NH? ...... 25-miles and 41-minutes drive ......probably driving Rt 25-B in Center Harbor and Rt 175 in Holderness/Ashland to get to Plymouth.

One thing is for sure about MoultonboroUGH .......MoultonboroUGH is a looooong waaaaaay from everywhere ....... is why MoultonboroUGH is spelled with an UGH! You ever notice that there's no UGH in Tuftonboro or Wolfeboro ...... so, why is that!

You’re right about Moultonborough being far from everything, especially some parts. We looked at a few properties and ruled it out for some of the reasons you listed.

But as far as Water and Sewerage. I prefer a Well and Septic. Towns rip you off on that service. I have Septic in MA with a sewer line going right by. It would cost a fortune just for the permit, never mind the actual work. And once hooked up they double your water bill.

[ApS]

You’re right about Moultonborough being far from everything, especially some parts. We looked at a few properties and ruled it out for some of the reasons you listed.

But as far as Water and Sewerage. I prefer a Well and Septic. Towns rip you off on that service. I have Septic in MA with a sewer line going right by. It would cost a fortune just for the permit, never mind the actual work. And once hooked up they double your water bill.
IIRC, you bought lakefront on New Hampshire's most pristine large lake.

Why saddle oneself with rust stains, chemical shocking, Radon and arsenic content, when especially good water is available with minimal treatment? (If any).

I don't expect Town Sewerage to be available in our lifetimes, but they can't double your lakewater bill. (Though I expect they'll find a way). :rolleye2:

[TiltonBB]

You’re right about Moultonborough being far from everything, especially some parts. We looked at a few properties and ruled it out for some of the reasons you listed.

But as far as Water and Sewerage. I prefer a Well and Septic. Towns rip you off on that service. I have Septic in MA with a sewer line going right by. It would cost a fortune just for the permit, never mind the actual work. And once hooked up they double your water bill.

I grew up in a town that had no town sewer. Every house was on their own septic system. If they ran sewer by my house and offered a free hookup I would have said no. Pumping the tank every 5 years or so at a cost of about $200 was way cheaper.

In Gilford we have town sewer and I use water from the lake. The quarterly sewer bills are only in the $90 range. Free water and low sewer bills are a great deal.

[John Mercier]

You do not have a choice on sewer hook-up. It is at the discretion of the municipality under a waiver.

https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt341/files/documents/web-1.pdf

[Biggd]

Most communities will give you an initial hook up deal, special price and let you pay it over time interest free. I doubt they would force you to hook up unless your septic wasn't up to snuff, which would be on you to prove. So if you have an old system it would wise for you to hook up. I some cases it will make your property more valuable. If you only have a 2 bedroom septic system and you hook up to a sewer system now when you go to sell that restriction is lifted.
If you don't take the initial deal and you want to hook up at a later date then you're going to pay though the nose.

[mswlogo]

IIRC, you bought lakefront on New Hampshire's most pristine large lake.

Why saddle oneself with rust stains, chemical shocking, Radon and arsenic content, when especially good water is available with minimal treatment? (If any).

I don't expect Town Sewerage to be available in our lifetimes, but they can't double your lakewater bill. (Though I expect they'll find a way). :rolleye2:

I’ve had Well water at 3 locations. Only issue at all 3 was iron which is easily removed. Just had a well put in an it’s great. Town water around here (not available where I’m at) is ok. Most town systems need some sort of “treatment”.

I have a gareden and lawn I water back in MA with a fairly good size water bill and most of it is not going down the drain. But sewer would double the bill. I think it would cost $10k or more just to be allowed to hook up. Price keeps going up. And then $10-20k to actually hook in. So it could cost $20-$40k and double my water bill. Vs $200 to pump every few years.

You are not required to hook up. Probably if building new or septic needed replacement yes. But they don’t force you to disconnect from a working septic. I doubt any town does that. But possibly in very problematic area they do.

[John Mercier]

The ''deal'' is usually based on the road to lay the pipes and the equipment to dig, etc is already there. If you do it later, you entail the entire cost.

If you read the attachment, you will find that we amended the statutes about thirty years ago, and further corrected about twenty-five years ago, to allow for the waiver.

A building with a ''new'' septic system would be waived if not in a critical environmental area. They would not be forced to hook-up until the waived system failed and needed replacement or major repair. At that time, the hook-up would cost about as much as the replacement/repair.

[mswlogo]

Most communities will give you an initial hook up deal, special price and let you pay it over time interest free. I doubt they would force you to hook up unless your septic wasn't up to snuff, which would be on you to prove. So if you have an old system it would wise for you to hook up. I some cases it will make your property more valuable. If you only have a 2 bedroom septic system and you hook up to a sewer system now when you go to sell that restriction is lifted.
If you don't take the initial deal and you want to hook up at a later date then you're going to pay though the nose.

Exactly. I’m long past the good deal phase in MA.
If they allowed hook up for free and the town itself could hook in for a good price I might do it. Say if total was under $10k I probably would.
But the early “incentive” is now working against them.
My system was installed in the 70’s. It’s only my wife and I on a 3 bedroom system for the last 20 years.

[John Mercier]

I’ve had Well water at 3 locations. Only issue at all 3 was iron which is easily removed. Just had a well put in an it’s great. Town water around here (not available where I’m at) is ok. Most town systems need some sort of “treatment”.

I have gareden and lawn I water back in MA with a fairly good size water bill and most of it is not going down the drain. But sewer would double the bill. I think it would cost $10k or more just to be allowed to hook up. Price keeps going up. And then $10-20k to actually hook in. So it could cost $20-$40k and double my water bill. Vs $200 to pump every few years.

You are not required to hook up. Probably if building new or septic needed replacement yes. But they don’t force you to disconnect from a working septic. I doubt any town does that. But possibly in very problematic area they do.
Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment. It is the most cost effective system with Laconia having the building and system built so that it could easily double or triple current output. The lake water is removed from Paugus and treated.

Our well systems generally put out iron (staining) and calcium (water spots)... hard water... but some location have organic matter and can experience soft water conditions that need to be resolved. Simple test kits exist for each.

We can get doses of arsenic or leaching of various distillate derivatives, but that is rather rare. Radon is generally only a situation with an artisan well, as the granite can embedded the water with it... but other than on the map (https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/radon/documents/radon-map-nh.pdf) would be rare... with odds increasing on whether the home is really tight (low air exchange) and has a basement/cellar or a crawl space.

It would be doubtful to be able to purchase a home in a low density area, not on a water body, that had the option of municipal water and sewer.

[Biggd]

Exactly. I’m long past the good deal phase in MA.
If they allowed hook up for free and the town itself could hook in for a good price I might do it. Say if total was under $10k I probably would.
But the early “incentive” is now working against them.
My system was installed in the 70’s. It’s only my wife and I on a 3 bedroom system for the last 20 years.I'm on Waukewan, which is Meredith's drinking water. They have done studies on extending the sewer to my neighborhood. I doubt I will be around to see it but my 2 bedroom system is over 30 years old and even though it's working fine I would jump at the chance to hook up. The road in is a half mile dirt road so if they put sewer in they would most likely pave it also and then I would pave my driveway, a win/win.
The value would go up dramatically as I have 4 sleeping areas so now it becomes a 4 bedroom home.

[John Mercier]

A lot of it will depend on the sewage plants down the line.
Waukewan and Winona, along with smaller tributaries, are part of a watershed protection area... so they are very careful.

[mswlogo]

Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment. It is the most cost effective system with Laconia having the building and system built so that it could easily double or triple current output. The lake water is removed from Paugus and treated.

Our well systems generally put out iron (staining) and calcium (water spots)... hard water... but some location have organic matter and can experience soft water conditions that need to be resolved. Simple test kits exist for each.

We can get doses of arsenic or leaching of various distillate derivatives, but that is rather rare. Radon is generally only a situation with an artisan well, as the granite can embedded the water with it... but other than on the map (https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/radon/documents/radon-map-nh.pdf) would be rare... with odds increasing on whether the home is really tight (low air exchange) and has a basement/cellar or a crawl space.

It would be doubtful to be able to purchase a home in a low density area, not on a water body, that had the option of municipal water and sewer.

I would only use reverse osmosis as a last resort (something bad that can't be filtered out) there a quite a few negatives with it that I didn't want to deal with.

PH is great, Hardness is great and the Iron is all undissolved Iron (a lot easier to remove). I currently have a 1 micron sediment (removes most of the iron takes it from 3 ppm to about 0.3 ppm), Pentair Iron Filter (brings iron to 0 ppm good for 80K gallons), Pentair 0.5 Micro Carbon for the whole house (all 4.5" x 20" big mothers). And a Water Drop 0.01 Micron Carbon combo at the Kitchen sink for cooking and drinking.

Oh and I had to swap my anode in the hot water heater from a passive rod to an "active" one, otherwise hot water smelled like rotten eggs. Very common issue with well water.

In MA I have a 1 micron sediment filter for whole house and just the Water Drop 0.01 micro under the kitchen sink in MA on town water.

No Reverse Osmosis, No Softener and no UV needed.

[mswlogo]

I'm on Waukewan, which is Meredith's drinking water. They have done studies on extending the sewer to my neighborhood. I doubt I will be around to see it but my 2 bedroom system is over 30 years old and even though it's working fine I would jump at the chance to hook up. The road in is a half mile dirt road so if they put sewer in they would most likely pave it also and then I would pave my driveway, a win/win.
The value would go up dramatically as I have 4 sleeping areas so now it becomes a 4 bedroom home.

Our last lake home was like that (tons of lake homes are) and I would jump at the chance to hook that up too and would raise it's value. It's part of the reason I sold it.

New lake house is not septic limited but is 0.4 miles in on a private dirt road. As much as I hate the dirt road at times, I would miss the campy / non residential feeling the dirt road gives.

[John Mercier]

Municipal water treatment.

Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far.
I think I have only ever sold one RO undercounter system for drinking water.

[mswlogo]

Municipal water treatment.

Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far.
I think I have only ever sold one RO undercounter system for drinking water.

Then what did you mean by "Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment"

And who/what are you responding to with "Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far"?

[FlyingScot]

Municipal water treatment.

Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far.
I think I have only ever sold one RO undercounter system for drinking water.

We have RO in both homes--it is excellent. But I am not surprised you have sold only one. RO is very expensive compared to other filters (but very cheap compared to Poland Springs!)

[John Mercier]

Then what did you mean by "Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment"

And who/what are you responding to with "Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far"?

I should have stated that municipal water treatment is generally RO with UV.
Many people that are ''political'' seem to think that our local municipalities use the old tech of the places they come from.

And the second would be you... homeowners general do not go that route.

When people state direct from the lake is best, they don't realize that the municipalities draw from the lakes and then ''treat'' the water even further removing impurities. Municipal systems also have very stringent testing protocols, while as a well user... mine has only been tested three times in the last 24 years.

[ApS]

A lot of these younger home buyers, under 35, haven't experienced a real down turn in their working careers. How prepared are they when they lose their job and no one is hiring, will they panic sell?
I think it is more likely people still try to unload their second homes to try and save their primary home. When that happens inventory sky rockets, no one can afford to buy, and prices fall.
Just how far they fall depends on the length of the down turn and how long people can hold on.
LaDaSun article regarding inventory-history and prices among older shorefront communities--examples at Patrician Shores:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/real_estate/columns/one-of-lake-winnipesaukee-s-finest-beaches-at-patrician-shores/article_f554b086-d341-11ea-ae8d-431f29784ad5.html

I note boat size is limited to a reasonable (for Lake Winnipesaukee) 24-feet. :coolsm:

[John Mercier]

Most of what Frank Roche writes feels like an advertisement.