Face Masks

[SAMIAM]

Just curious.....state of NH said they were selling face masks at cost at all state liquor stores. They are charging $30 pkg of 50 but I can get the same mask on line for $11 and that's a big savings since we are using so many.

[Descant]

Is $11 a loss leader price? A state agency may be required to calculate cost differently than just "purchase price".

[garysanfran]

Please try to avoid these products

[SAMIAM]

Please try to avoid these products

Thanks for the warning Gary but they look identical to the ones we've been using. Got some free at the state distribution and paid as much as $35 other places......blue paper masks

[Hillcountry]

Please try to avoid these products

Yet another reason China let their virus escape to the world...they have the mask market cornered...:(

[JEEPONLY]

Just curious.....state of NH said they were selling face masks at cost at all state liquor stores. They are charging $30 pkg of 50 but I can get the same mask on line for $11 and that's a big savings since we are using so many.

Care to mention where/brand purchased?

I recently bought a 50 pack on line- $26. After ordering I got a notice saying "others who bought this also bought"- 3 ply masks. Do most ads specify this? Didn't see any reference when making my purchase.

[AltonCAM]

I to bought some masks online quality was junk. Straps came apart while wearing them. I then bought the NH masks and the quality was superior.


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[SAMIAM]

Care to mention where/brand purchased?

I recently bought a 50 pack on line- $26. After ordering I got a notice saying "others who bought this also bought"- 3 ply masks. Do most ads specify this? Didn't see any reference when making my purchase.

Wifey found them.....4 packs of 50 arrived Tuesday

https://clarkdeals.com/health-beauty/50-count-disposable-face-masks/

[JEEPONLY]

I to bought some masks online quality was junk. Straps came apart while wearing them. I then bought the NH masks and the quality was superior.


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What are "the NH masks"?

[Jdarby]

What are "the NH masks"?

State of NH is selling masks that they purchased en masse at cost at the state liquor stores.

[JEEPONLY]

State of NH is selling masks that they purchased en masse at cost at the state liquor stores.

Yes. Sorry I forgot that from the OP.
Thanks!

[ApS]

New England Journal of Medicine
https://imgur.com/pQzVuHY

https://imgur.com/pQzVuHY

Would someone please make the image appear in their response? :)

[rick35]

I found some disposable masks on Amazon that are made here. They're more expensive than others (20 for $22.98) but I'm very happy to pay more to buy American.

I have a thing about buying American for anything that is near my face. I'm very happy with My Pillow because of its design but more importantly because it is made in the USA. We bought a Tempurpedic mattress for the same reason. Where do you think Bobopedic is made? Not in the USA.

[FlyingScot]

This is a really important point that ApS and TW illustrate--a significant number of researchers think there's a good chance that opening up with masks might be no riskier than staying closed without masks. It's too early to know for sure, and that is assuming 100% of people wearing masks, but this is something for us to watch

[Slickcraft]

Walmart and Sam's will require masks starting 7/20

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/15/walmart-masks-required-shoppers-sams-club-covid-19/5442415002/

Alan

[Seaplane Pilot]

Walmart and Sam's will require masks starting 7/20

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/15/walmart-masks-required-shoppers-sams-club-covid-19/5442415002/

Alan

Yet another reason to avoid that dump full of Chinese junk! I hope this spawns the re-birth of the Mom & Pop shops.

[jbolty]

Walmart and Sam's will require masks starting 7/20

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/15/walmart-masks-required-shoppers-sams-club-covid-19/5442415002/

Alan

the future is now.

[Pricestavern]

Walmart and Sam's will require masks starting 7/20
Alan

About time

[webmaster]

Walmart and Sam's will require masks starting 7/20On the lighter side: https://babylonbee.com/news/walmart-requiring-all-shoppers-to-wear-pants

FLL take note.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Preferably not yoga pants :) Seen too many things I can't erase from my mind

[WinnisquamZ]

Drunks, children, and yoga pants never lie!


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

I am not a fan of wearing masks...they are annoying...but I wear one when going into a store because we’re supposed to...and maybe they protect me and others from the dreaded Covid virus...maybe. Anyhow, I stopped in to Skelleys a short while ago....the place was a madhouse....and very few were wearing masks or making any attempt to social distance. Got my stuff and exited to parking lot, which was full of out of state license plates. My message to them, and to everyone: if you are going to leave home, which might be in a Covid-19 infested state, and escape to N.H., where the numbers are pretty good, would you mind COVERING YOUR FACE with a MASK so that we don’t have to inhale your germs? Maybe a mask helps, and may it doesn’t, but it can’t hurt. Besides it hides wrinkles in old ladies, which is a side benefit.

[thinkxingu]

Yet another reason to avoid that dump full of Chinese junk! I hope this spawns the re-birth of the Mom & Pop shops.Your thoughts now that Trump is wearing a mask?

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[Newbiesaukee]

I am not a fan of wearing masks...they are annoying...but I wear one when going into a store because we’re supposed to...and maybe they protect me and others from the dreaded Covid virus...maybe. Anyhow, I stopped in to Skelleys a short while ago....the place was a madhouse....and very few were wearing masks or making any attempt to social distance. Got my stuff and exited to parking lot, which was full of out of state license plates. My message to them, and to everyone: if you are going to leave home, which might be in a Covid-19 infested state, and escape to N.H., where the numbers are pretty good, would you mind COVERING YOUR FACE with a MASK so that we don’t have to inhale your germs? Maybe a mask helps, and may it doesn’t, but it can’t hurt. Besides it hides wrinkles in old ladies, which is a side benefit.

I agree with your approach to masks...now if only the real NH residents would agree with mask using. It isn’t only the “others.”

[Seaplane Pilot]

Your thoughts now that Trump is wearing a mask?

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See below. Nothing has changed. I don’t flip-flop, nor do I make decisions based on what President Trump does. I support him, I will vote for him in November, but I think independently. Ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot View Post
Yet another reason to avoid that dump full of Chinese junk! I hope this spawns the re-birth of the Mom & Pop shops.

[DEJ]

I am not a fan of wearing masks...they are annoying...but I wear one when going into a store because we’re supposed to...and maybe they protect me and others from the dreaded Covid virus...maybe. Anyhow, I stopped in to Skelleys a short while ago....the place was a madhouse....and very few were wearing masks or making any attempt to social distance. Got my stuff and exited to parking lot, which was full of out of state license plates. My message to them, and to everyone: if you are going to leave home, which might be in a Covid-19 infested state, and escape to N.H., where the numbers are pretty good, would you mind COVERING YOUR FACE with a MASK so that we don’t have to inhale your germs? Maybe a mask helps, and may it doesn’t, but it can’t hurt. Besides it hides wrinkles in old ladies, which is a side benefit.Same thing at pier 19 store, employees and patrons not wearing masks. If your health is important to you I would suggest avoiding these places. Funny that at hunters in wolfeboro 100 percent wearing masks the last few times I have been there.

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[FlyingScot]

Same thing at pier 19 store, employees and patrons not wearing masks. If your health is important to you I would suggest avoiding these places. Funny that at hunters in wolfeboro 100 percent wearing masks the last few times I have been there.

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Yes--I have noticed the same--Skelley's and Pier 19 are not masked in general, Hunter's and EM Heath are masked in general. I think this is the leadership of each store. Certain places broadcast the masked vibe, and certain others do not.

Examples: When you let your employees pull their masks down over their chins, you are broadcasting a non-masked vibe. When you teach your employees to use latex gloves and to gently chide customers (like me) who absent-mindedly walk the wrong way down one-way aisles, you are broadcasting a masked vibe.

Skelley's has been a terrific store for years, and Pier 19 looks like they've invested a ton of money. I'm sad to report that I am doing all I can to avoid them.

[rick35]

Your thoughts now that Trump is wearing a mask?

He wore a mask once. And that was in a hospital. They probably told home he had to or couldn't enter.

[rick35]

We went to the Hannaford in Meredith on Thursday and it was pretty busy. Almost everyone wore masks but some couldn't follow the arrows and distancing wasn't working. We're coming back for a couple more weeks in August and we're going to do a pick-up at Walmart instead of going back to Hannaford. It was just uncomfortable when compared to the Hannaford in Bedford we usually shop at.

[thinkxingu]

He wore a mask once. And that was in a hospital. They probably told home he had to or couldn't enter.The fact that he acquiesced and is now saying "masks are great in the right locations" is a fair shift from retweeting columns about masks as "slavery" and "social control."

Just noticing the shift. He absolutely can't win the anti-mask thing—there's too much evidence showing their impact.

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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Yes--I have noticed the same--Skelley's and Pier 19 are not masked in general, Hunter's and EM Heath are masked in general. I think this is the leadership of each store. Certain places broadcast the masked vibe, and certain others do not.

Examples: When you let your employees pull their masks down over their chins, you are broadcasting a non-masked vibe. When you teach your employees to use latex gloves and to gently chide customers (like me) who absent-mindedly walk the wrong way down one-way aisles, you are broadcasting a masked vibe.

Skelley's has been a terrific store for years, and Pier 19 looks like they've invested a ton of money. I'm sad to report that I am doing all I can to avoid them.

It seems we’re spending lots of time at Skelleys lately.....gas for jet skis and boat...so we were there again this morning....the place was mobbed.... people, cars, trucks everywhere....and while I sat, perched in the car....
birds eye view of the doors....at least 50 people entered and exited, and only TWO wore masks. For now, no more Skelleys for us except for gas. Again, I am not a cheerleader for masks, but it’s considered almost disrespectful to barge into a busy place with no mask...I know....herd mentality....but just trying to be cautious.

[WinnisquamZ]

The whole thing about sitting and watching what others are doing and not doing and is frightening. NH has and will continue to be a state that allows a bit more freedom then others. Those individuals that have all this free time I have wood that needs splitting and a shed that can to painted. Also, open carry while not wearing a mask appears to keep the crowd noise down. Just saying


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[Newbiesaukee]

If we old/vulnerable people are responsible for ourselves, then careful observation of these issues is our responsibility.

Not overdoing it at all.

And it is useful to know which places seem safer than others; I appreciate the information the Forum provides.

It just is not always political.

[camp guy]

Face masks have been discussed thoroughly, but the best point I have heard was made by Sue Doe-nym, "but it can't hurt". Sure, everyone has an opinion, and, just like anything else in life, there are two (or more) sides to the issue, but Sue Doe-nym, basically, ends the discussion.

[FlyingScot]

The whole thing about sitting and watching what others are doing and not doing and is frightening. NH has and will continue to be a state that allows a bit more freedom then others. Those individuals that have all this free time I have wood that needs splitting and a shed that can to painted. Also, open carry while not wearing a mask appears to keep the crowd noise down. Just saying


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Don't all people sit and watch while their SO is pumping gas? Nothing frightening about that. Also nothing unusual about wanting to stay away from a place where others are not social distancing.

Injecting guns into this conversation? That is kind of weird, but I guess so is walking around your local store with one strapped to your side (just in case!)

[Hillcountry]

The fact that he acquiesced and is now saying "masks are great in the right locations" is a fair shift from retweeting columns about masks as "slavery" and "social control."

Just noticing the shift. He absolutely can't win the anti-mask thing—there's too much evidence showing their impact.

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But he can certainly “win” the freedom “thing” and that’s the bottom line.
I’m against (and hate) the restriction of a mask but I do “comply” if I have to...just like our president. I do, however, try to avoid the mask situations so by my absence, I’m doing my part.
By the way, there is plenty of “evidence” saying masks do absolutely nothing as well...just sayin’

[XCR-700]

Given that this thread has already taken a left turn from its origin I don’t feel too bad adding to that deviation, but will try to do so without burning the forum down.

So my concern is what are we trying to do with all these masks?

Originally we are all told we needed to slow the spread and keep the hospital ICUs from becoming overloaded. This was going to be a few weeks, and we are all horrified. But now its been months with no end in sight and many people are using the term the new normal, with discussions about every one wearing masks all day long, all the time, forever more going forward.

So what happened to slowing the spread?

How did it become “stop or kill” the virus?

Do we really think we can stop or kill any virus?

Some are saying this is the new norm until we have a vaccine.

Will this all stop once there is a vaccine?

Do people realize that when speaking of flu viruses, roughly only half the population get the flu shot, and when we are lucky and it’s a “good” vaccine, its still only roughly 40% effective?

Do we realize that not all, but way too much of whats being discussed and proposed in the media and by self-proclaimed experts is NOT backed up by actual in depth scientific study, the universal standard being a double-blind study that takes time to conduct and time to review and time to agree upon and document the findings, as opposed to the current zero time pronouncements.

Personally I am feeling like a sheep, I am following what I am told to do, where masks (most of the time) social distance (most of the time) minimizing my activities and staying home.

And in truth, and as I now see no end in sight, I am also starting to feel like I have been listening to people who are selling me snake oil.

The original notion of slowing the spread to reduce impact to the hospital ICUs made sense, but I don’t know if I buy into the beat the virus, kill the virus, new normal, etc,,,

Feeling really confused, not protected, not better, not confident in ANYTHING I am now hearing.

Am I the only one who isn’t totally anchored in one camp or the other; the remain locked down until forever if needed until someone tells us we are now ok to return to the old normal camp, or the this is all nonsense there is nothing to worry about camp,,,

Starting to feel like I am in between 2 markers on the lake, and wondering if I should be on the outside of either of them, and not happy about or satisfied about anything the people on the boat are telling me.

[Seaplane Pilot]

I am also starting to feel like I have been listening to people who are selling me snake oil.

Yes, I agree 100%. My new name for these snake oil salesmen is “MASK-HOLES”.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Given that this thread has already taken a left turn from its origin I don’t feel too bad adding to that deviation, but will try to do so without burning the forum down.

So my concern is what are we trying to do with all these masks?

Originally we are all told we needed to slow the spread and keep the hospital ICUs from becoming overloaded. This was going to be a few weeks, and we are all horrified. But now its been months with no end in sight and many people are using the term the new normal, with discussions about every one wearing masks all day long, all the time, forever more going forward.

So what happened to slowing the spread?

How did it become “stop or kill” the virus?

Do we really think we can stop or kill any virus?

Some are saying this is the new norm until we have a vaccine.

Will this all stop once there is a vaccine?

Do people realize that when speaking of flu viruses, roughly only half the population get the flu shot, and when we are lucky and it’s a “good” vaccine, its still only roughly 40% effective?

Do we realize that not all, but way too much of whats being discussed and proposed in the media and by self-proclaimed experts is NOT backed up by actual in depth scientific study, the universal standard being a double-blind study that takes time to conduct and time to review and time to agree upon and document the findings, as opposed to the current zero time pronouncements.

Personally I am feeling like a sheep, I am following what I am told to do, where masks (most of the time) social distance (most of the time) minimizing my activities and staying home.

And in truth, and as I now see no end in sight, I am also starting to feel like I have been listening to people who are selling me snake oil.

The original notion of slowing the spread to reduce impact to the hospital ICUs made sense, but I don’t know if I buy into the beat the virus, kill the virus, new normal, etc,,,

Feeling really confused, not protected, not better, not confident in ANYTHING I am now hearing.

Am I the only one who isn’t totally anchored in one camp or the other; the remain locked down until forever if needed until someone tells us we are now ok to return to the old normal camp, or the this is all nonsense there is nothing to worry about camp,,,

Starting to feel like I am in between 2 markers on the lake, and wondering if I should be on the outside of either of them, and not happy about or satisfied about anything the people on the boat are telling me.

You are definitely not the only one not anchored in one camp or the other. This whole thing is confusing, and all we can do is be as cautious as possible without being a nut case. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if sometime soon, we could look in a rear view mirror, and be relieved that this pandemic was nothing but a terrible memory, but finished?

[Biggd]

Yes, I agree 100%. My new name for these snake oil salesmen is “MASK-HOLES”.
Oh, you're so clever.

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[thinkxingu]

Anything to inject politics into the topic. I think the admin has asked very specifically not to do so.This thread is about masks. The president of the United States—the person who governs and sets the tone for the whole of America—has, until recently, decided, visibly, not to wear one AND has argued against them.

I simply asked if someone who has been vocally anti-mask and pro-Trump would reconsider.

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[thinkxingu]

As Mentioned "We appreciate your dedication to the mission"I'm not discussing political ramifications, nor am I taking a side, nor am I criticizing the person/people I was referring to—I'm asking if someone would change their behavior given a change in circumstance. If you, or others, see that as political, I apologize.

(In hindsight, however, this thread was not the one I originally thought it was—this one is about buying, not wearing, masks, so I apologize to the OP.)

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[Barney Bear]

All of the hummingbirds that visit our feeders are wearing masks. 🇺🇸

[ishoot308]

....are getting restless...

[FlyingScot]

Starting to feel like I am in between 2 markers on the lake, and wondering if I should be on the outside of either of them, and not happy about or satisfied about anything the people on the boat are telling me.

Yes--it's a bummer. But we as a society are like a rookie captain on the lake with a couple of inexperienced buddies, as you so aptly put it--we have not done this before. Accepting that, we have a basic choice. Option 1--we can listen to our pesky egghead friend (let's call him Tony) who has read extensively on seamanship, aced the boater ed course, and has memorized Bizer. Option 2--we can listen to our supremely confident friend (let's call him Don) who has none of Tony's background, really wants to get back to the party on the other side of The Broads ASAP, and isn't worried about the ominous weather report delivered by some other eggheads.

I share your discomfort and frustration with Tony, Don, and the rest of the world. But there's no question--I'm taking Tony's advice to get me home safely.

[XCR-700]

Yes--it's a bummer. But we as a society are like a rookie captain on the lake with a couple of inexperienced buddies, as you so aptly put it--we have not done this before. Accepting that, we have a basic choice. Option 1--we can listen to our pesky egghead friend (let's call him Tony) who has read extensively on seamanship, aced the boater ed course, and has memorized Bizer. Option 2--we can listen to our supremely confident friend (let's call him Don) who has none of Tony's background, really wants to get back to the party on the other side of The Broads ASAP, and isn't worried about the ominous weather report delivered by some other eggheads.

I share your discomfort and frustration with Tony, Don, and the rest of the world. But there's no question--I'm taking Tony's advice to get me home safely.

Not sure those options represent what the world is offering us in the current pandemic. It would be nice if it were as clear cut at that, but for me its much more confusing as the endless stream of talking heads fill the airwaves 24 hrs/day with finger pointing and political mudslinging. When the so called express tell you that you need to do something drastic for a short period to avoid a major crisis, then you do it, and the crisis happens anyway, then they tell you that you didn’t do it long enough, or well enough and now you will need to endure the change for much longer than expected, or indefinitely, well you start to lose faith in those people and that system.

Are we better off for all we have done?

Some say yes and claim it would have been much worse if we had not done it, while others say you have accomplished nothing and worse yet you have compounded the matter by these bad choices.

So who do you believe?

The people who were wrong in the length and scope and depth of what was needed and continue to blindly follow them to no foreseeable end point?

Or do you make a 180 degree u-turn and jump on the bandwagon of the people who say its not real or not a big deal or we are doing the opposite of what we should be doing, despite the significant numbers of sick and dead people?

This is a mess and a disaster of epic proportions and there is no clear path out of this medical and political tarpit.

Most disappointing to me, I see politicians at every level using this event as a political forum and for their own advantage. I have not yet seen one that I felt was 100% honest, and acting in the best interest of everyone who they represent.

I also see the media as shameless appalling profiteers. Gone are actual journalists.

I am so sick and fed up with opinion news and news anchors trying to tell me what to think.

And god help us all for all the pseudo news commentary people and their ½ hour popularity contests. I would rather watch the 3 Stooges or Bugs Bunny than any of these cable TV idiots that the world relies on to think for them. Make a bold statement, mock some politician up to and including the president, crack a smile and a joke and you get followers and ratings and credibility.

The world is not a better place because of CNN, MSN, FOX News, Rachel Maddow, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the countless shameless self-promoting idiots the networks promote in their quest for more viewership and more profit. We survive in spite of these bozos.

Sorry, just very frustrated.

Feeling bad for people suffering the virus, and people suffering because of the restrictions. My barber of over 22 years closed down because of this mess. That alone leaves me angry and frustrated, let alone all the other problems. in a personal gesture of solidarity for my barber, i may never get another hair cut,,,

Sorry :offtopic: way off,,,

[Biggd]

Trust no one but yourself. Just do what you feel you need to do to keep you and your family safe. It seems like everyone has an agenda and will lie through their teeth to get people to follow them.

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[P-3 Guy]

Not sure those options represent what the world is offering us in the current pandemic. It would be nice if it were as clear cut at that, but for me its much more confusing as the endless stream of talking heads fill the airwaves 24 hrs/day with finger pointing and political mudslinging. When the so called express tell you that you need to do something drastic for a short period to avoid a major crisis, then you do it, and the crisis happens anyway, then they tell you that you didn’t do it long enough, or well enough and now you will need to endure the change for much longer than expected, or indefinitely, well you start to lose faith in those people and that system.

Are we better off for all we have done?

Some say yes and claim it would have been much worse if we had not done it, while others say you have accomplished nothing and worse yet you have compounded the matter by these bad choices.

So who do you believe?

The people who were wrong in the length and scope and depth of what was needed and continue to blindly follow them to no foreseeable end point?

Or do you make a 180 degree u-turn and jump on the bandwagon of the people who say its not real or not a big deal or we are doing the opposite of what we should be doing, despite the significant numbers of sick and dead people?

This is a mess and a disaster of epic proportions and there is no clear path out of this medical and political tarpit.

Most disappointing to me, I see politicians at every level using this event as a political forum and for their own advantage. I have not yet seen one that I felt was 100% honest, and acting in the best interest of everyone who they represent.

I also see the media as shameless appalling profiteers. Gone are actual journalists.

I am so sick and fed up with opinion news and news anchors trying to tell me what to think.

And god help us all for all the pseudo news commentary people and their ½ hour popularity contests. I would rather watch the 3 Stooges or Bugs Bunny than any of these cable TV idiots that the world relies on to think for them. Make a bold statement, mock some politician up to and including the president, crack a smile and a joke and you get followers and ratings and credibility.

The world is not a better place because of CNN, MSN, FOX News, Rachel Maddow, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the countless shameless self-promoting idiots the networks promote in their quest for more viewership and more profit. We survive in spite of these bozos.

Sorry, just very frustrated.

Feeling bad for people suffering the virus, and people suffering because of the restrictions. My barber of over 22 years closed down because of this mess. That alone leaves me angry and frustrated, let alone all the other problems. in a personal gesture of solidarity for my barber, i may never get another hair cut,,,

Sorry :offtopic: way off,,,

The best advice I can give you is to stop watching CNN, MSN, FOX News, Rachel Maddow, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the countless shameless self-promoting idiots the networks promote in their quest for more viewership and more profit. You may continue to watch the 3 Stooges or Bugs Bunny.

[XCR-700]

The best advice I can give you is to stop watching CNN, MSN, FOX News, Rachel Maddow, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the countless shameless self-promoting idiots the networks promote in their quest for more viewership and more profit. You may continue to watch the 3 Stooges or Bugs Bunny.

Working on it,,, Someone much smarter than me once told me, life is imperfect at best, and so are you, but keep working on it you "might" get better.

So far, I remain the eternal optimist, but shrouded in layers of pessimism. So as you might expect, inline with my not being perfect, I am also sometimes hard to live with. Too often frustrated by the world around me, usually happiest when anchored somewhere on Winnipesaukee, sitting in some float with a toe line connected to the boat (I'm the only one who currently operates boats in the family, so if I floated away, they could neither come get me nor go home :D )

[FlyingScot]

Not sure those options represent what the world is offering us in the current pandemic. It would be nice if it were as clear cut at that, but for me its much more confusing as the endless stream of talking heads fill the airwaves 24 hrs/day with finger pointing and political mudslinging. When the so called express tell you that you need to do something drastic for a short period to avoid a major crisis, then you do it, and the crisis happens anyway, then they tell you that you didn’t do it long enough, or well enough and now you will need to endure the change for much longer than expected, or indefinitely, well you start to lose faith in those people and that system.

Are we better off for all we have done?

Some say yes and claim it would have been much worse if we had not done it, while others say you have accomplished nothing and worse yet you have compounded the matter by these bad choices.

So who do you believe?

The people who were wrong in the length and scope and depth of what was needed and continue to blindly follow them to no foreseeable end point?

Or do you make a 180 degree u-turn and jump on the bandwagon of the people who say its not real or not a big deal or we are doing the opposite of what we should be doing, despite the significant numbers of sick and dead people?

This is a mess and a disaster of epic proportions and there is no clear path out of this medical and political tarpit.

Most disappointing to me, I see politicians at every level using this event as a political forum and for their own advantage. I have not yet seen one that I felt was 100% honest, and acting in the best interest of everyone who they represent.

I also see the media as shameless appalling profiteers. Gone are actual journalists.

I am so sick and fed up with opinion news and news anchors trying to tell me what to think.

And god help us all for all the pseudo news commentary people and their ½ hour popularity contests. I would rather watch the 3 Stooges or Bugs Bunny than any of these cable TV idiots that the world relies on to think for them. Make a bold statement, mock some politician up to and including the president, crack a smile and a joke and you get followers and ratings and credibility.

The world is not a better place because of CNN, MSN, FOX News, Rachel Maddow, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the countless shameless self-promoting idiots the networks promote in their quest for more viewership and more profit. We survive in spite of these bozos.

Sorry, just very frustrated.

Feeling bad for people suffering the virus, and people suffering because of the restrictions. My barber of over 22 years closed down because of this mess. That alone leaves me angry and frustrated, let alone all the other problems. in a personal gesture of solidarity for my barber, i may never get another hair cut,,,

Sorry :offtopic: way off,,,

Nobody's perfect, and it's always unpleasant watching sausage being made. But there's a big difference between acting like a politician when you're on the side of virtually all of the public health experts, and acting like a politician when you're ignoring all the public health experts.

But there have been excellent leaders during this difficult time--the Republican Governors of New Hampshire and Massachusetts, and the Democratic Governor of Rhode Island--just to name a few nearby. I think that all these folks have done pretty well with the hands they were dealt, and I don't think they exaggerated the danger or overpromised on what would happen with sacrifice. All 3 of their states have done WAY better than average.

Too often, politicians who have been obviously and grossly wrong try to spread the blame and deflect by saying everyone's at fault, nobody knows what to do. That's a lot of the noise you're hearing on the TV shows you really should stop watching

[thinkxingu]

I guess I'm not all that confused. MA and NH, and the countries that have reopened successfully, have the same things in common. Virus infection = distance + saturation + time - remediation.

As a result, my family is living mostly normal. We're going to restaurants, dining outside at some, inside at others; grocery and other stores; entertainment venues (Southwick's Zoo and Mel's Funway last week); group events (Cub Scouts, father-daughter activities); birthday parties, etc.

We stay socially distant, wearing masks when inside; wash our hands frequently; don't touch our faces (whenever we can help it); and minimize our time in enclosed/highly saturated places. It's not brain science.

The trick, really, will be dealing with high-saturation/respiration/time places like schools and bars and, to keep this on topic lest the Top-Water Topic Police show up, how to pay for and manage wearing masks and other remediations.

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[Newbiesaukee]

I guess I'm not all that confused. MA and NH, and the countries that have reopened successfully, have the same things in common. Virus infection = distance + saturation + time - remediation.

As a result, my family is living mostly normal. We're going to restaurants, dining outside at some, inside at others; grocery and other stores; entertainment venues (Southwick's Zoo and Mel's Funway last week); group events (Cub Scouts, father-daughter activities); birthday parties, etc.

We stay socially distant, wearing masks when inside; wash our hands frequently; don't touch our faces (whenever we can help it); and minimize our time in enclosed/highly saturated places. It's not brain science.

The trick, really, will be dealing with high-saturation/respiration/time places like schools and bars and, to keep this on topic lest the Top-Water Topic Police show up, how to pay for and manage wearing masks and other remediations.

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Agree with you... but as with much in life, some of NH, MA low levels are due to luck and continuing low levels require at least most of the population taking some measures of continued vigilance. Hubris usually fails.

The overall issues are not that complicated. On any issue of importance, I usually eliminate the opinions of the outliers on either end. Most of the time the consensus of experts, regardless of issue....from plumbers to epidemiologists is the best path.

AND....the consensus may change overtime as more accurate information becomes available. Who would have guessed 10 years ago the preponderance of pontoons as new boat purchases? Or the popularity of SUVs.

It’s not rocket science but it is medical/epidemiological science.

Of course, the outliers are sometimes correct...but this is rarely the case. When practicing, I always recommended second opinions and sometimes third on difficult issues.

This disaster we are dealing with is, IMO, purposeful or not, caused by the lack of clear, accurate communication.

[JEEPONLY]

I am not a fan of wearing masks...they are annoying...but I wear one when going into a store because we’re supposed to...and maybe they protect me and others from the dreaded Covid virus...maybe. Anyhow, I stopped in to Skelleys a short while ago....the place was a madhouse....and very few were wearing masks or making any attempt to social distance. Got my stuff and exited to parking lot, which was full of out of state license plates. My message to them, and to everyone: if you are going to leave home, which might be in a Covid-19 infested state, and escape to N.H., where the numbers are pretty good, would you mind COVERING YOUR FACE with a MASK so that we don’t have to inhale your germs? Maybe a mask helps, and may it doesn’t, but it can’t hurt. Besides it hides wrinkles in old ladies, which is a side benefit.

This is an absurd post.

[thinkxingu]

Will be interesting if the holdouts change their minds now that it's "patriotic" to wear a mask.16235

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[Mr. V]

This is an absurd post.

It's no worse than most of your screeds.

[LoveLakeLife]

I’m not a fan of masks either. They’re annoying. So I don’t wear one. If I get the flu, that’s what happens: I get the flu. If you want to follow the crowd so as to fit in, and you think the flu is in search of you, then stay home for a year. In the meantime don’t drive a car or walk down the street because you might get hurt. Be consistent. Don’t expect the majority of thinking people to kowtow to the sheep mentality.

I agree with the Three Stooges and Bugs Bunny recommendation.


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[Mr. V]

Don’t expect the majority of thinking people to kowtow to the sheep mentality.

The majority of thinking people realize the propriety of masking, social distancing, and hand washing.

It's those minority hold outs that are the problem today.

[Biggd]

The majority of thinking people realize the propriety of masking, social distancing, and hand washing.

It's those minority hold outs that are the problem today.Evidently, now it's Patriotic also! :emb::emb::emb:

[fatlazyless]

Yesterday, July 20, was the first day for Walmart to require masks and not just recommend masks. Everyone I saw inside the Plymouth store was wearing a mask.

Positioned where you first walk in, they had a display of masks for sale made by Hanes and some other brand.

For $7.50, there's a Hanes 5-pak of masks, 3-ply 100% cotton, black or white, washable and reusable, "shall not be used in a clinical setting where the infection risk level through inhalation is high", dispose after 20 washes, one size fits most, made in Vietnam.

Feels like a good, comfy, well made, sturdy mask that can be washed for $1.50-each ...... a bargain at twice the price ...... and, the lungs you protect could be your own!

July 21, subscription not needed..... www.concordmonitor.com/covid-coronavirus-nh-new-hampshire-35320225 ...... chart shows one day, July 20, NH corona increase?

[Hillcountry]

“The holdouts” as you describe them, are a silent majority of independent thinkers that do not alter their core, ideals and beliefs over a “tweet”
Simply put, this man, our president, is our only choice to attempt to prevent our great country from falling into the hands of socialists, radicals and others that want to create a “new world order” at the expense of the beliefs and ideals that made America the greatest country on the planet.
Could you be so naive as to “think” any differently?
The only answer to your random “wonderings” is a resounding NO!

[Jdarby]

I’m not a fan of masks either. They’re annoying. So I don’t wear one. If I get the flu, that’s what happens: I get the flu. If you want to follow the crowd so as to fit in, and you think the flu is in search of you, then stay home for a year. In the meantime don’t drive a car or walk down the street because you might get hurt. Be consistent. Don’t expect the majority of thinking people to kowtow to the sheep mentality.

I agree with the Three Stooges and Bugs Bunny recommendation.


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Your post is satire right? COVID-19 is not the flu. The flu is caused by a strain of the influenza virus....a thinking person should know this. Thinking people don’t wear masks? Mask wearers are sheep? Well I hope if you get your “flu” you don’t become seriously ill and seek care at a hospital. Hospitals are filled with unthinking mask wearing sheep! You certainly can’t trust your health and recovery to them! You mention the dangers of driving. I suppose as a “thinking person” you ignore speed limits, red lights, and stop signs? If you’re obeying them I guess you’re just a sheep driving a car? Maybe you’re OK with following laws....and this is why society (aka: the sheep) are forced to enact laws in order to clearly spell out to the thinking people what is right and what is wrong. If your post wasn’t satire then I thank you! Now I understand why laws governing seatbelt use, cellphone use, and drunk driving exist! It’s because the thinking people are spending too much time thinking and need some very clear guidance in the form of laws. Sad that so much has to be mandated.

[Pricestavern]

16239

If you hate wearing a mask, you're really not going to like the ventilator

[JEEPONLY]

It's no worse than most of your screeds.

Unfortunately, as a descriptive, it doesn't apply to a five word sentence.
However, your post implies that you agree with me, just on a different level.

My response to the poster revolves around the "annoyance" of wearing a mask- because we should- and the fact that it may, or may not, help deter the spread of the virus. Plus the poster's observation (feeling) that others are being inconsiderate.

So... do we wear masks because we want to (it's the right thing to do, as individuals)?- Or because we should- leaving it up to the rest of society?

I understand that the poster was trying to make a point- but no point was made- making the post "absurd".

Besides: It helps hide wrinkles?

Thank you for your understanding, friend (seems to work for others in contentious posts).

[Mr. V]

Thank you for your understanding, friend (seems to work for others in contentious posts).

While the efficacy of masks worn to prevent the wearer from contracting the virus has not been proven, their value in preventing wearers who are infected from easily spreading the virus seems clear.

It we all wear masks, maintain social distancing, avoid touching our face and wash / sanitize our hands frequently: how can the virus then continue to spread?

We have to do something to slow it down until a vaccine is available, or else the death toll will spike, hospitals will run out of capacity to effectively treat patients, and we'll be the world's poster child for inept governmental / societal response to this clear and present danger.

"We have met the enemy, and it is us." --- Pogo

[Seaplane Pilot]

Here's an interesting article from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Article also references info from several other "respected" sources.

No face diapers for me, thank you. Feel free to move about with yours on though....

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

Doomsayers discrediting this article in 3....2....1.....

[Garcia]

Here's an interesting article from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Article also references info from several other "respected" sources.

No face diapers for me, thank you. Feel free to move about with yours on though....

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

Doomsayers discrediting this article in 3....2....1.....

Probably worth at least looking into the AAPS. They also say that there is a casual relationship between vaccines and autism.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

So, here's the opposite from the AMA,

"Public masking during the COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most effective measures we can take to contain the spread of the virus. The American Medical Association strongly advocates for coronavirus masking in public spaces".

www.ama-assn.org/topics/coronavirus-masking-public

[Seaplane Pilot]

So, here's the opposite from the AMA,

"Public masking during the COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most effective measures we can take to contain the spread of the virus. The American Medical Association strongly advocates for coronavirus masking in public spaces".

www.ama-assn.org/topics/coronavirus-masking-public

Just like Burger King, you can have it your way. I'll take AAPS with a side of fries and a Diet Coke. You can take AMA, with whatever else you want with it.

[Nagigator]

Here's an interesting article from the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. Article also references info from several other "respected" sources.

No face diapers for me, thank you. Feel free to move about with yours on though....

https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

Doomsayers discrediting this article in 3....2....1.....

OK, we get it. You don't wear a mask and think its a waste of time. But do you have to be insulting and condescending to others who don't share your views?

[Hillcountry]

OK, we get it. You don't wear a mask and think its a waste of time. But do you have to be insulting and condescending to others who don't share your views?

So...to your thinking, expressing one's own point of view that doesn't agree with yours is insulting and condescending but everyone that has thrown out verbal slings and barbs from the "other" side are not?
This argument cannot be won, by either side. Express your view and go on about your business.

[Pricestavern]

Probably worth at least looking into the AAPS. They also say that there is a casual relationship between vaccines and autism.

Founded in 1944, it has about 5,000 members. Has promoted:

The belief that HIV does not cause AIDS
Being gay reduces life expectancy
There is a link between abortions and breast cancer
There is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism


The AAPS was formed in 1944 in opposition to the Wagner-Murray-Dingell Bill proposing government health care to most US citizens. it is a political-economic rather than a medical group. The AAPS opposes electronic medical records and takes the position that the FDA and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional. In 2005 they published an article stating that 'anchor babies' from illegal aliens had, in 3 years, swollen the number of leprosy cases in the US by 7,000 (as it turns out there were 7,000 cases of leprosy cases in the US over the course of 30 years, not 3).

Soooo....I'm not really going to take what the AAPS says seriously.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Founded in 1944, it has about 5,000 members. Has promoted:

The belief that HIV does not cause AIDS
Being gay reduces life expectancy
There is a link between abortions and breast cancer
There is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism


The AAPS was formed in 1944 in opposition to the Wagner-Murray-Dingell Bill proposing government health care to most US citizens. it is a political-economic rather than a medical group. The AAPS opposes electronic medical records and takes the position that the FDA and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional. In 2005 they published an article stating that 'anchor babies' from illegal aliens had, in 3 years, swollen the number of leprosy cases in the US by 7,000 (as it turns out there were 7,000 cases of leprosy cases in the US over the course of 30 years, not 3).

Soooo....I'm not really going to take what the AAPS says seriously.

What took you so long? You don’t think we could come up with an equally descriptive list against AMA?

[Nagigator]

Mr. Hillcountry, MY view is that calling a mask a face diaper is insulting and condescending.

[Newbiesaukee]

What took you so long? You don’t think we could come up with an equally descriptive list against AMA?

The only relationship between the AMA and the AAPS is the use of the same alphabet.

You could come up with a list of positions that the AMA has taken which would not be valid today...that is the way things go over time. But the AAPS list was wrong when made and never true.

I am not defending the AMA but trying to compare the AAPS and AMA is just not a valid argument with respect to scientific / medical value.

And just who is the “we” you refer to? Why can’t there be a discussion of individuals without making it a debate between 2 sides.

[Pricestavern]

What took you so long?

Checking sources, etc. Besides, I don’t want to hog all the fun :)

[VitaBene]

The only relationship between the AMA and the AAPS is the use of the same alphabet.

You could come up with a list of positions that the AMA has taken which would not be valid today...that is the way things go over time. But the AAPS list was wrong when made and never true.

I am not defending the AMA but trying to compare the AAPS and AMA is just not a valid argument with respect to scientific / medical value.

And just who is the “we” you refer to? Why can’t there be a discussion of individuals without making it a debate between 2 sides.

Agreed on "sides". There will never be political consensus between 2 people unless they are the most strident conservative or liberal, even then they would find things to disagree about!

I had never heard of AAPS until this thread.

To the No Mask people, will you mask for work, to go shopping, or to a restaurant? I have typed it before on this forum, but it is amazing how fast we adapted at work to distancing or masking. 95% of the time we stand in a circle talking and everyone naturally goes 6' apart. What was once a tighter circle is looser. If we cant distance we mask. It's really not much of a hardship.

[Hillcountry]

Mr. Hillcountry, MY view is that calling a mask a face diaper is insulting and condescending.

I thought it hilarious! Difference between you and me.:D

[Seaplane Pilot]

I thought it hilarious! Difference between you and me.:D

Hey Hill,

How can one insult and be condescending to a face mask?? If you can figure that out, please let me know! :laugh:

[Hillcountry]

Hey Hill,

How can one insult and be condescending to a face mask?? If you can figure that out, please let me know! :laugh:

Face masks matter...I guess?

[Jdarby]

I had never heard of AAPS until this thread.

Nor had I and I serve on the board of directors of an international healthcare accrediting organization. We have 23 professional healthcare associations represented on our board and AAPS is not among them nor are they even on our radar as an organization that can assist in creating quality consensus standards for the healthcare community.

Be well.

[fatlazyless]

......ain't got no mask to wear inside the store


...... a Plymouth-NH, Walmart health ambassador will give you a mask, just inside their front door

[Nagigator]

Face masks matter...I guess?

You said it. :):):)

[JEEPONLY]

This is gonna get GOOD!

[Biggd]

Face masks matter...I guess?They are Patriotic now.

[ITD]

Pfft, I wear a mask in public in closed spaces. Do I really think it helps? Nope. But it doesn't hurt so I do it. Baaaaaa!

[Hillcountry]

You said it. :):):)

I did...but obviously my comedic and sarcastic intent flew over your head like a Patriot missile...;)

[Seaplane Pilot]

Face masks matter...I guess?

Perhaps! I’m going to print up some FMM bumper stickers. Will send you a supply!

[Mr. V]

Trump did a 180 and now recommends masks for all, whether social distancing or not.

It's about time, but is it too late?

[FlyingScot]

Just like Burger King, you can have it your way. I'll take AAPS with a side of fries and a Diet Coke. You can take AMA, with whatever else you want with it.

Actually, no. You may be able to skip the mask, but you cannot assert there is some sort of equality going on here. Burger King vs McDonalds is a reasonable debate. The American Medical Association vs some quacks who do not believe in vaccines is just pitiful.

[FlyingScot]

“The holdouts” as you describe them, are a silent majority of independent thinkers that do not alter their core, ideals and beliefs over a “tweet”
Simply put, this man, our president, is our only choice to attempt to prevent our great country from falling into the hands of socialists, radicals and others that want to create a “new world order” at the expense of the beliefs and ideals that made America the greatest country on the planet.
Could you be so naive as to “think” any differently?
The only answer to your random “wonderings” is a resounding NO!

Ironic that you claim to be an independent thinker, and then go on in the very next paragraph to give us a near verbatim read of an all too common propaganda line.

[Hillcountry]

Ironic that you claim to be an independent thinker, and then go on in the very next paragraph to give us a near verbatim read of an all too common propaganda line.

Verbatim read? No idea what you are talking about. What was the “verbatim read” pray tell?

[Pricestavern]

Burger King vs McDonalds is a reasonable debate.

Is it? Everyone knows that McD's has the better fries and shakes

[Phantom]

This is gonna get GOOD!

Here we go AGAIN :(.

[JEEPONLY]

While the efficacy of masks worn to prevent the wearer from contracting the virus has not been proven, their value in preventing wearers who are infected from easily spreading the virus seems clear.

It we all wear masks, maintain social distancing, avoid touching our face and wash / sanitize our hands frequently: how can the virus then continue to spread?

We have to do something to slow it down until a vaccine is available, or else the death toll will spike, hospitals will run out of capacity to effectively treat patients, and we'll be the world's poster child for inept governmental / societal response to this clear and present danger.

"We have met the enemy, and it is us." --- Pogo

Agree- All should "at least" wear masks!
It does seem that the debate over this has waned for the time being. Maybe it'll catch on!

[FlyingScot]

Verbatim read? No idea what you are talking about. What was the “verbatim read” pray tell?

I do my best to keep my non-lakes region posts to only responding to misinformation, so I'm letting this go.

I hope you'll take your leader's recent advice to heart and wear a mask when you are going to be less than 6' from others

[thinkxingu]

Here we go AGAIN :(.Yeah, my bad—I teach rhetoric and am always following the narrative, so I was interested to see the about-turn Trump started and, as of his last comments yesterday and today, continuing.

It looks like Winn-Dixie reversed their position in the last couple days, which seems to follow along with the change.

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[fatlazyless]

2:18-pm: Wednesday, July 22, 2020

Good afternoon lakes region residents and visitors, here is the latest on the ever changing rules on wearing masks in your lakes region retail stores.

Both Dollar General and Family Dollar have just today changed their policy from 'masks required to masks recommended' presumably to attract new customers from the no-mask people.

Meanwhile: Walmart, Heath's super market and hardware store, Aubuchon, Vista Foods, Hannaford, Market Basket, CVS, Walgreen's, Rite Aid, Marshall's, MacDonald's, Burger King, Irving Gas, and NH State Liquor all require masks for employees and customers.

[Outdoorsman]

2:18-pm: Wednesday, July 22, 2020

Good afternoon lakes region residents and visitors, here is the latest on the ever changing rules on wearing masks in your lakes region retail stores.

Both Dollar General and Family Dollar have just today changed their policy from 'masks required to masks recommended' presumably to attract new customers from the no-mask people.

Meanwhile: Walmart, Heath's super market and hardware store, Aubuchon, Vista Foods, Hannaford, Market Basket, CVS, Walgreen's, Rite Aid, Marshall's, MacDonald's, Burger King, Irving Gas, and NH State Liquor all require masks for employees and customers.

You forgot Shaw's. Though more expensive, they too require a mask to shop their stores effective 7/21/2020.

[Outdoorsman]

I am no lawyer, but...


16246

[ApS]

I do my best to keep my non-lakes region posts to only responding to misinformation, so I'm letting this go.

I hope you'll take your leader's recent advice to heart and wear a mask when you are going to be less than 6' from others
Wanna try that again?

[LoveLakeLife]

I couldn’t care less if the “sky is falling” set want to wear football helmets, burkas, or suits of armor in public. That’s their choice and I don’t shake my head or roll my eyes at them. It’s when they try to impose their viewpoint on others through government coercion that they become worthy of scorn.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Actually, no. You may be able to skip the mask, but you cannot assert there is some sort of equality going on here. Burger King vs McDonalds is a reasonable debate. The American Medical Association vs some quacks who do not believe in vaccines is just pitiful.

There you go again, discrediting and insulting any organizing that doesn’t follow your leftist agenda. You’ll never convince me, and I’ll never convince you, so we might as well leave it at that. I’ve also read an opinion from the New England Journal of Medicine stating that masks are useless. But I suppose you’ll call them quacks too.

[FlyingScot]

Wanna try that again?

Thanks, I think I'm good with what I said. Trump is our President, as I've written in numerous other posts. But on this issue he is only leading some of the people. Hill made it clear that he is following Trump's lead in general. So...I hope he will follow his leader's recent advice to wear a mask

[P-3 Guy]

There you go again, discrediting and insulting any organizing that doesn’t follow your leftist agenda. You’ll never convince me, and I’ll never convince you, so we might as well leave it at that. I’ve also read an opinion from the New England Journal of Medicine stating that masks are useless. But I suppose you’ll call them quacks too.

TO THE EDITOR:
We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org)1 as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions.2,3 Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not.4

We did state in the article that “wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection,” but as the rest of the paragraph makes clear, we intended this statement to apply to passing encounters in public spaces, not sustained interactions within closed environments. A growing body of research shows that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission is strongly correlated with the duration and intensity of contact: the risk of transmission among household members can be as high as 40%, whereas the risk of transmission from less intense and less sustained encounters is below 5%.5-7 This finding is also borne out by recent research associating mask wearing with less transmission of SARS-CoV-2, particularly in closed settings.8 We therefore strongly support the calls of public health agencies for all people to wear masks when circumstances compel them to be within 6 ft of others for sustained periods.

Michael Klompas, M.D., M.P.H.
Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA

Charles A. Morris, M.D., M.P.H.
Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Boston, MA

Erica S. Shenoy, M.D., Ph.D.
Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA


https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836

[JEEPONLY]

I couldn’t care less if the “sky is falling” set want to wear football helmets, burkas, or suits of armor in public. That’s their choice and I don’t shake my head or roll my eyes at them. It’s when they try to impose their viewpoint on others through government coercion that they become worthy of scorn.


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It's nice of you to not shake your head or roll your eyes at others.

Do you consider stores requiring masks as government coercion?

I ask because I would wonder about the strength of your conviction against being told what to do.

I'm not being a smart-ass here. I truly wonder what you would do if you needed something from a place that mandated a policy that runs against your grain.

[LoveLakeLife]

A valid question, Jeep,and I could tell before you mentioned it that you were being sincerely curious and not a smart ass. You’re right, a company policy of a private business is not government coercion. While private businesses can’t lawfully discriminate against members of a protected class, it can set set conditions on entry to prospective customers. Upon being notified of a mask requirement and a refusal to allow entry sans mask, I’ve turned around and walked out of a drugstore, a few restaurants, and the gift shop at the Weirs. I did take care to politely mention that I would spend my money somewhere else. I did accede to wearing a mask in a pulmonologist’s office, for obvious and defensible reasons. Thanks for the nice tenor of your question, I hope I’ve responded in kind.


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[WinnisquamZ]

This morning I stop for gas and coffee in Tilton. Sign on the door said masks are required. Put mine on and then realized less then half of the working folks had them on. Removed mine and smiled


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[Hillcountry]

Thanks, I think I'm good with what I said. Trump is our President, as I've written in numerous other posts. But on this issue he is only leading some of the people. Hill made it clear that he is following Trump's lead in general. So...I hope he will follow his leader's recent advice to wear a mask

Flying Scot...you’re a good, reasonable person.
I have shared here that I will wear a mask in limited situations where I deem it to be necessary. I hate them as they fog my glasses and make me sweat. I also avoid situations where I might need one (wife does most shopping).
I don’t do anything just because Trump does or advises but he was (and is) choice for president. In general, his policies align with my needs and a greater reason is that he’s not part of the DC swamp...just a rich businessman that wants to keep the country on a path that i agree with. That’s all.
If there were a better choice I would vote for him/her.

[FlyingScot]

Flying Scot...you’re a good, reasonable person.
I have shared here that I will wear a mask in limited situations where I deem it to be necessary. I hate them as they fog my glasses and make me sweat. I also avoid situations where I might need one (wife does most shopping).
I don’t do anything just because Trump does or advises but he was (and is) choice for president. In general, his policies align with my needs and a greater reason is that he’s not part of the DC swamp...just a rich businessman that wants to keep the country on a path that i agree with. That’s all.
If there were a better choice I would vote for him/her.

That sounds reasonable and fair to me, even if we disagree about the political stuff. It's sad the politics has become so divisive in our country. (BTW, I also hate the masks and the fog, and being in places where I need one.)

[FlyingScot]

There you go again, discrediting and insulting any organizing that doesn’t follow your leftist agenda. You’ll never convince me, and I’ll never convince you, so we might as well leave it at that. I’ve also read an opinion from the New England Journal of Medicine stating that masks are useless. But I suppose you’ll call them quacks too.

That is not accurate, and I'm pretty sure we've had this exchange before. I do not discredit anybody who does not follow my agenda. I have posted that Forbes and the Wall St Journal, just for example, are reliable news sources even if I don't like their editorial slant. I have also saluted the work of several Republican Governors. Reasonable people can disagree on lots of things.

But when you assert that vaccine deniers are medical experts, it is dangerous to other people who might not read carefully enough or have enough advance knowledge to know that this is complete baloney.

[VitaBene]

I fly a ton and am a reader, so the fogging was killing me. Try pulling the mask a bit higher on your nose so that your glasses are resting on the fabric and not your skin. Works for me well at least with a cloth mask.

[Jdarby]

This morning I stop for gas and coffee in Tilton. Sign on the door said masks are required. Put mine on and then realized less then half of the working folks had them on. Removed mine and smiled


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That’s some brave stuff right there! Something to tell the grandkids about!

[XCR-700]

Its interesting to see how divisive this matter is, and at such a personal level.

It should be more clear, but it appears to me the that it has been manipulated by the media, politicians, pundits, so called experts, media and anyone who wants camera time and will take a stand on one side or the other.

Lacking are any normal scientific and medical industry standard proof of anything being stated on either side of this debate. (generally cited are double-blind formal studies, not random data)

Lacking is credibility from any of the people making statements, only hearsay, innuendo, anecdotal evidence - not factual evidence, sincerity - only overly dramatic pleas to believe their belief(s)

Again I will say this is all very troubling, and not productive, and not effective except to divide and agitate the masses.

And I'm sorry, but any statements that NY, MA or anyone else got it right, are doing what needs to be done, are on the right side of the debate, etc are speculative and generally unfounded. Why are they better, because their numbers are in decline and the worst appears behind them. Maybe thats just because most of the people in those states have been exposed and the virus has run its course through the majority of the population there. Thats just as scientific as any blind belief that social distancing, masks, or anything else being done is working.

Without factual results from scientific studies we are still shooting in the dark, and no one can actually tell you whats going on.

So do face masks work or not, are they better than nothing, is it true they cant hurt,,, Anyone who says they have the answer is either misinformed, or uninformed, there is no actual industry standard scientific data to support any of what is being said. Its just as much a mess today as it was so many months ago.

Its shocking how much a mess this still is. :(

[JEEPONLY]

A valid question, Jeep,and I could tell before you mentioned it that you were being sincerely curious and not a smart ass. You’re right, a company policy of a private business is not government coercion. While private businesses can’t lawfully discriminate against members of a protected class, it can set set conditions on entry to prospective customers. Upon being notified of a mask requirement and a refusal to allow entry sans mask, I’ve turned around and walked out of a drugstore, a few restaurants, and the gift shop at the Weirs. I did take care to politely mention that I would spend my money somewhere else. I did accede to wearing a mask in a pulmonologist’s office, for obvious and defensible reasons. Thanks for the nice tenor of your question, I hope I’ve responded in kind.


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Thank you.
Yes, I guess if you decide to make another trip to shop somewhere else it all makes sense- you take responsibility.
It's really all any of us can do- without all the hooting and hollaring!

[JEEPONLY]

That’s some brave stuff right there! Something to tell the grandkids about!

No "s" needed:laugh:

[XCR-700]

I couldn’t care less if the “sky is falling” set want to wear football helmets, burkas, or suits of armor in public. That’s their choice and I don’t shake my head or roll my eyes at them. It’s when they try to impose their viewpoint on others through government coercion that they become worthy of scorn.


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I think there is a balance to be had.

Even if you dont believe in it, is there major harm or inconvenience in wearing masks for short periods?

If a business owner asks customers to wear one while shopping, and we harmed or put out for those moments we are there.

Alternatively, employees forced to wear masks, who dont believe in this standard, should they required to endure the burden of breathing countless hours through the same mask, re-breathing things the body is designed to expel, and possibly growing bacteria on these masks of questionable origin? How is that fair to them.

We clearly have some insignificant impacts and some very significant impacts with all this, but I seem to observe the most complaints and push back over the insignificant impacts,,,

Just one persons perspective of a very difficult and confusing matter. :(

[XCR-700]

A valid question, Jeep,and I could tell before you mentioned it that you were being sincerely curious and not a smart ass. You’re right, a company policy of a private business is not government coercion. While private businesses can’t lawfully discriminate against members of a protected class, it can set set conditions on entry to prospective customers. Upon being notified of a mask requirement and a refusal to allow entry sans mask, I’ve turned around and walked out of a drugstore, a few restaurants, and the gift shop at the Weirs. I did take care to politely mention that I would spend my money somewhere else. I did accede to wearing a mask in a pulmonologist’s office, for obvious and defensible reasons. Thanks for the nice tenor of your question, I hope I’ve responded in kind.


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And here in is the true value/benefit/beauty of America (well at least in the past and for the moment) in that you have the ability to take your business elsewhere.

We all do this for countless reasons, and I hope we will be able to continue with this personal freedom.

There are times and places for imposed standards that we must all comply with, and usually they make 100% sense. For example not smoking while refueling your car/boat.

It would be ideal if all imposed standards were as obvious and commonly agreed upon as the refueling standard, but our world is not so simple.

Lacking that, how do we find a balance where some dont feel at risk, and others dont feel imposed upon for no valid reason?

I dont have an answer, but I'm sure others do on both sides of this debate have all the answers,,, :(

[Pam]

Its interesting to see how divisive this matter is, and at such a personal level.

It should be more clear, but it appears to me the that it has been manipulated by the media, politicians, pundits, so called experts, media and anyone who wants camera time and will take a stand on one side or the other.

Lacking are any normal scientific and medical industry standard proof of anything being stated on either side of this debate. (generally cited are double-blind formal studies, not random data)

Lacking is credibility from any of the people making statements, only hearsay, innuendo, anecdotal evidence - not factual evidence, sincerity - only overly dramatic pleas to believe their belief(s)

Again I will say this is all very troubling, and not productive, and not effective except to divide and agitate the masses.

And I'm sorry, but any statements that NY, MA or anyone else got it right, are doing what needs to be done, are on the right side of the debate, etc are speculative and generally unfounded. Why are they better, because their numbers are in decline and the worst appears behind them. Maybe thats just because most of the people in those states have been exposed and the virus has run its course through the majority of the population there. Thats just as scientific as any blind belief that social distancing, masks, or anything else being done is working.

Without factual results from scientific studies we are still shooting in the dark, and no one can actually tell you whats going on.

So do face masks work or not, are they better than nothing, is it true they cant hurt,,, Anyone who says they have the answer is either misinformed, or uninformed, there is no actual industry standard scientific data to support any of what is being said. Its just as much a mess today as it was so many months ago.

Its shocking how much a mess this still is. :(


I suspect the value of masks in preventing the spread of disease through airborne droplets has been well proven; otherwise, healthcare workers, dentists, etc. would not be wearing them. Plus, it's just common sense that if you cover your face, you're not exhaling germs as readily as if you were not wearing a mask. (Which is why we were all taught as children to cover our mouths when we coughed, sneezed, etc.) It's unfortunate that vulnerable people cannot just protect themselves. They must rely on other people to cover their faces. Therefore, we all wear masks in public and we're all protected. Easy and sensible. Hopefully this pandemic will not last forever, and everyone should do their part. Good citizenship and all that.

[LoveLakeLife]

Hi XCR

Another good observation. Regarding workers being required to wear masks, that’s a condition of their employment. While on the clock, their time is not their own and they have to follow the employers rules in exchange for a paycheck. Their option is to quit and work somewhere else that doesn’t require masks.

My first job was as a drugstore cashier. I was philosophically opposed to ringing up people’s cigarettes but I realized that I was doing so in my capacity as an employee of the company, not in my own personal capacity. I didn’t like doing it but I did it because if the employment construct.

Regarding the What’s the Harm doctrine that many people have raised, its logically infirm. Extend that thinking logically and it applies to anything. For instance what’s the harm in wearing a mask from the time you leave the house until you return? What’s the harm in voluntarily driving a maximum of ten miles an hour to reduce the risk of a collision? Etc.

The better question than What’s the Harm is What’s the Use?


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[JEEPONLY]

My first job was as as a drug store clerk.
Discreet gentlemen were allowed to step behind the counter and give the OK signal- circle formed with thumb and index finger, other three fingers up (nothing spoken).
The purchase?- three Trojans, bagged. :look:
No need to ask, "What's the use?" (Even though I was only 16)

[Jdarby]

Its interesting to see how divisive this matter is, and at such a personal level.

It should be more clear, but it appears to me the that it has been manipulated by the media, politicians, pundits, so called experts, media and anyone who wants camera time and will take a stand on one side or the other.

Lacking are any normal scientific and medical industry standard proof of anything being stated on either side of this debate. (generally cited are double-blind formal studies, not random data)

Lacking is credibility from any of the people making statements, only hearsay, innuendo, anecdotal evidence - not factual evidence, sincerity - only overly dramatic pleas to believe their belief(s)

Again I will say this is all very troubling, and not productive, and not effective except to divide and agitate the masses.

And I'm sorry, but any statements that NY, MA or anyone else got it right, are doing what needs to be done, are on the right side of the debate, etc are speculative and generally unfounded. Why are they better, because their numbers are in decline and the worst appears behind them. Maybe thats just because most of the people in those states have been exposed and the virus has run its course through the majority of the population there. Thats just as scientific as any blind belief that social distancing, masks, or anything else being done is working.

Without factual results from scientific studies we are still shooting in the dark, and no one can actually tell you whats going on.

So do face masks work or not, are they better than nothing, is it true they cant hurt,,, Anyone who says they have the answer is either misinformed, or uninformed, there is no actual industry standard scientific data to support any of what is being said. Its just as much a mess today as it was so many months ago.

Its shocking how much a mess this still is. :(

XCR I’m curious as to who you would actually believe? There have been a multitude of studies establishing a benefit to mask usage. However, as soon as anyone quotes these studies it’s dismissed that they are just trying to push their own agendas. So, who is the expert that you would believe other than God-almighty descending down on a cloud to declare the efficacy of mask usage in slowing the spread of the virus?

16249

That is the real insanity in all of this. No one seems to agree on who they will trust. Even if God showed up the atheists would then have a problem!

[FlyingScot]

Its interesting to see how divisive this matter is, and at such a personal level.

It should be more clear, but it appears to me the that it has been manipulated by the media, politicians, pundits, so called experts, media and anyone who wants camera time and will take a stand on one side or the other.

Lacking are any normal scientific and medical industry standard proof of anything being stated on either side of this debate. (generally cited are double-blind formal studies, not random data)

Lacking is credibility from any of the people making statements, only hearsay, innuendo, anecdotal evidence - not factual evidence, sincerity - only overly dramatic pleas to believe their belief(s)

Again I will say this is all very troubling, and not productive, and not effective except to divide and agitate the masses.

And I'm sorry, but any statements that NY, MA or anyone else got it right, are doing what needs to be done, are on the right side of the debate, etc are speculative and generally unfounded. Why are they better, because their numbers are in decline and the worst appears behind them. Maybe thats just because most of the people in those states have been exposed and the virus has run its course through the majority of the population there. Thats just as scientific as any blind belief that social distancing, masks, or anything else being done is working.

Without factual results from scientific studies we are still shooting in the dark, and no one can actually tell you whats going on.

So do face masks work or not, are they better than nothing, is it true they cant hurt,,, Anyone who says they have the answer is either misinformed, or uninformed, there is no actual industry standard scientific data to support any of what is being said. Its just as much a mess today as it was so many months ago.

Its shocking how much a mess this still is. :(

There's plenty of truth in what you write. BUT--you are demanding perfection from the experts and nothing from those who doubt them. On one side we have a bunch of public health officials and scientists doing everything they can to bring all the data and analysis possible to bear on a completely new situation. On the other side we have no real analysis or effort to do anything but open as quickly as possible. This is not a balanced debate--it's struggling scientists vs people who do not care about science.

[WinnisquamZ]

The same science that predicted California breaking off, a nuclear war, Arctic melting, ozone holes, recycling, y2k, WOMD, I did not have sex with that women, global warming, etc... and you wonder why we are skeptical


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[thinkxingu]

The last two posts got me thinking about: https://www.amazon.com/Death-Expertise-Campaign-Established-Knowledge/dp/0190469412

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[FlyingScot]

The same science that predicted California breaking off, a nuclear war, Arctic melting, ozone holes, recycling, y2k, WOMD, I did not have sex with that women, global warming, etc... and you wonder why we are skeptical


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Ummm, we're a bit far afield here, but you seem to be strangely misinformed...

California has had severe earthquakes, the Arctic is melting, there are or were ozone holes, the earth is warming. Certain Republicans lied about WOMD, and Bill Clinton lied about that woman; but those folks are politicians, not scientists.

Nothing in the preceding paragraph is even debatable. So I remain disappointed that you place obvious political gambits above scientists working in earnest.

[XCR-700]

I suspect the value of masks in preventing the spread of disease through airborne droplets has been well proven; otherwise, healthcare workers, dentists, etc. would not be wearing them. Plus, it's just common sense that if you cover your face, you're not exhaling germs as readily as if you were not wearing a mask. (Which is why we were all taught as children to cover our mouths when we coughed, sneezed, etc.) It's unfortunate that vulnerable people cannot just protect themselves. They must rely on other people to cover their faces. Therefore, we all wear masks in public and we're all protected. Easy and sensible. Hopefully this pandemic will not last forever, and everyone should do their part. Good citizenship and all that.

My mother inlaw was a 2 time cancer survivor who rabidly read the scientific studies, the medication warnings for everything she was told to take, she discussed and debated her treatment in great detail with her doctors and often did not follow their recommendations, and with all her problems lived well into her 80's by not being a sheep.

I hope to be that good some day.

As for cloth face masks being well proven as protection against infectious disease, not so fast says I.

I do not dispute that there is some potential value, but show me the actual scientific data. Its a simple request. But one no one seems to be sharing.

And why not?

Easy and sensible, again I say not so fast. I have some respiratory challenges that make it very difficult to wear a mask for very long, I do it were I need to, and I respect others preferences to have me wear a mask near them, but I do so at my discomfort and actual medical impact. And it totally wears me out having to breath through one.

So I respectfully say not always easy and sensible, and thats not even going into the concerns raised about breathing hours through a wet piece of cloth they contains what your body was designed to expel.

Again, happy to read and have a meaningful and adult no drama added discussion about any standard medical study about wearing home made cloth face masks for many hours and the benefits and impacts of such, just point me to it.

[XCR-700]

Hi XCR

Another good observation. Regarding workers being required to wear masks, that’s a condition of their employment. While on the clock, their time is not their own and they have to follow the employers rules in exchange for a paycheck. Their option is to quit and work somewhere else that doesn’t require masks.

My first job was as a drugstore cashier. I was philosophically opposed to ringing up people’s cigarettes but I realized that I was doing so in my capacity as an employee of the company, not in my own personal capacity. I didn’t like doing it but I did it because if the employment construct.

Regarding the What’s the Harm doctrine that many people have raised, its logically infirm. Extend that thinking logically and it applies to anything. For instance what’s the harm in wearing a mask from the time you leave the house until you return? What’s the harm in voluntarily driving a maximum of ten miles an hour to reduce the risk of a collision? Etc.

The better question than What’s the Harm is What’s the Use?


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A reasonable response and opinion, no argument from me.

But what you say will not end the debate.

[XCR-700]

My first job was as as a drug store clerk.
Discreet gentlemen were allowed to step behind the counter and give the OK signal- circle formed with thumb and index finger, other three fingers up (nothing spoken).
The purchase?- three Trojans, bagged. :look:
No need to ask, "What's the use?" (Even though I was only 16)

Now thats funny,,,

Glad to see someone here still has some sense of humor and not out for blood in every response.

[XCR-700]

XCR I’m curious as to who you would actually believe? There have been a multitude of studies establishing a benefit to mask usage. However, as soon as anyone quotes these studies it’s dismissed that they are just trying to push their own agendas. So, who is the expert that you would believe other than God-almighty descending down on a cloud to declare the efficacy of mask usage in slowing the spread of the virus? 16249 That is the real insanity in all of this. No one seems to agree on who they will trust. Even if God showed up the atheists would then have a problem!

Well feel free to invite him down, it might actually help!

As for the multitude of studies, all I can say having not seen a single one of them nor heard anyone reference or quote one, if such exists, why for the first 2 full months did I almost never see any official wearing a mask. Time and time again they would get up to the podium with their team in tow and no one was social distancing or wearing masks or gloves. Only after months of press conferences did we see any official wearing masks.

And again I am not debating that there is some merit to masks, but is it the virus beating miracle some promote it as and what are the down side impacts.

Bottom line, what happened to the goal of just slowing the virus to prevent overloading the hospital ICU's, and do we now actually believe we can stop and kill the virus?

Is it actually reasonable to think that by simply wearing an mask for a few more months that the virus will go away and I wont ever more be at risk for it again? If thats truly the case, I might be onboard. But for the moment I still hear more conflicting and unsubstantiated and inconsistent information, which causes me to pause and ask what is really going on.

Yup, at this point I might just need god almighty to help me.

So I remain standing by for a visit, I truly welcome it and I promise to honestly report back any knowledge imparted to me. No reason for me to keep a thing like that to myself,,,

ATB

[XCR-700]

There's plenty of truth in what you write. BUT--you are demanding perfection from the experts and nothing from those who doubt them. On one side we have a bunch of public health officials and scientists doing everything they can to bring all the data and analysis possible to bear on a completely new situation. On the other side we have no real analysis or effort to do anything but open as quickly as possible. This is not a balanced debate--it's struggling scientists vs people who do not care about science.

No argument from me, except I am not demanding anything from anyone let alone perfection.

I am simply stating my observations and some opinion and frustration.

I stand by my statements that this is a mess,,,

ATB

[XCR-700]

Its interesting to see how divisive this matter is, and at such a personal level.

Its shocking how much a mess this still is. :(

Standing by my above statements.

Sure would be nice if discussions about this matter did not result in personal attacks and we could all have and share and discuss different opinions but not resort to mudslinging.

Maybe thats asking too much of any online forum,,,

Well I keep hoping ;)

[Jdarby]

Well feel free to invite him down, it might actually help!

As for the multitude of studies, all I can say having not seen a single one of them nor heard anyone reference or quote one, if such exists, why for the first 2 full months did I almost never see any official wearing a mask. Time and time again they would get up to the podium with their team in tow and no one was social distancing or wearing masks or gloves. Only after months of press conferences did we see any official wearing masks.

And again I am not debating that there is some merit to masks, but is it the virus beating miracle some promote it as and what are the down side impacts.

Bottom line, what happened to the goal of just slowing the virus to prevent overloading the hospital ICU's, and do we now actually believe we can stop and kill the virus?

Is it actually reasonable to think that by simply wearing an mask for a few more months that the virus will go away and I wont ever more be at risk for it again? If thats truly the case, I might be onboard. But for the moment I still hear more conflicting and unsubstantiated and inconsistent information, which causes me to pause and ask what is really going on.

Yup, at this point I might just need god almighty to help me.

So I remain standing by for a visit, I truly welcome it and I promise to honestly report back any knowledge imparted to me. No reason for me to keep a thing like that to myself,,,

ATB

I appreciate that response. I’ll invite the divine one for a visit but I’m pretty sure the divine one doesn’t listen to me! LOL I understand that it’s all quite maddening. I appreciate when we can have civil discussions on the topic. Be well!

P.S. if you were relying on our civic leaders to be the role models......I’m sorry but being a politician does not grant any kind of medical knowledge. I’ve never cast my vote for a politician based upon their medical expertise. Nor would I ask any of them to diagnose my illness.

[LoveLakeLife]

I would never expect anything I say to end the debate. There are few things that are not debatable and saying something is non-debatable doesn’t make it so.

A piece of legal trivium: President Clinton didn’t lie in that instance. He purposely used the term “sexual relations” not sex when he issued the denial. That term had a specific definition in that jurisdiction that did not include the act in which he had engaged. He is a lot of things, but stupid isn’t among them.


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[Jdarby]

I would never expect anything I say to end the debate. There are few things that are not debatable and saying something is non-debatable doesn’t make it so.

A piece of legal trivium: President Clinton didn’t lie in that instance. He purposely used the term “sexual relations” not sex when he issued the denial. That term had a specific definition in that jurisdiction that did not include the act in which he had engaged. He is a lot of things, but stupid isn’t among them.


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Every President has amazing advisors! They just need to listen!


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Here’s Mr. hypocrite himself, the one and only “First Pitch Fauci” at the Nationals -Yankees game last night. No mask, no distancing when he thinks nobody is watching. Apparently he couldn’t find any empty seats so he could spread out a bit. Similar to the video showing him taking his face diaper off when he thought the cameras turned off. What a phony.

On another subject, here’s a preview of what will soon be coming to a theatre near you:

https://www.fox4now.com/news/coronavirus/naples-vice-mayor-asking-for-public-input-on-possible-vaccine-mandate

[thinkxingu]

Here’s Mr. hypocrite himself, the one and only “First Pitch Fauci” at the Nationals -Yankees game last night. No mask, no distancing when he thinks nobody is watching. Apparently he couldn’t find any empty seats so he could spread out a bit. Similar to the video showing him taking his face diaper off when he thought the cameras turned off. What a phony.

On another subject, here’s a preview of what will soon be coming to a theatre near you:

https://www.fox4now.com/news/coronavirus/naples-vice-mayor-asking-for-public-input-on-possible-vaccine-mandateAre those family members or people he's been exposed to? If so, distancing "requirements" wouldn't apply.

Also, he's addressed his mixed messages pretty clearly in the last month.

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[Seaplane Pilot]

Are those family members or people he's been exposed to? If so, distancing "requirements" wouldn't apply.

Also, he's addressed his mixed messages pretty clearly in the last month.

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I don't know the answer to your question. However, in the video link below you can see him take the mask off as soon as he thinks the cameras are off. I doubt everyone in that room is a family member.

https://www.facebook.com/AmericasVoiceNews/videos/cameras-off-mask-off-dr-fauci-is-shown-removing-his-mask-when-the-network-camera/1679766395513240/

[thinkxingu]

I don't know the answer to your question. However, in the video link below you can see him take the mask off as soon as he thinks the cameras are off. I doubt everyone in that room is a family member.

https://www.facebook.com/AmericasVoiceNews/videos/cameras-off-mask-off-dr-fauci-is-shown-removing-his-mask-when-the-network-camera/1679766395513240/It would be great to see an image of the room through a wide angle lens/not zoomed in. Looking at that, it doesn't look like he's within 6' of anyone else, which is the guideline, right?

I like this article: https://petapixel.com/2020/05/04/these-photos-show-how-easy-it-is-to-create-fake-news-with-photography/

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[Biggd]

Here’s Mr. hypocrite himself, the one and only “First Pitch Fauci” at the Nationals -Yankees game last night. No mask, no distancing when he thinks nobody is watching. Apparently he couldn’t find any empty seats so he could spread out a bit. Similar to the video showing him taking his face diaper off when he thought the cameras turned off. What a phony.

On another subject, here’s a preview of what will soon be coming to a theatre near you:

https://www.fox4now.com/news/coronavirus/naples-vice-mayor-asking-for-public-input-on-possible-vaccine-mandateI think we got your stance on the Covid issue by now. You're not wearing a mask, all news about Covid is fake news, you don't believe in science, and you're not going to be one of the sheep. Maybe you should have a Covid party. :rolleye1:

[XCR-700]

Here’s Mr. hypocrite himself, the one and only “First Pitch Fauci” at the Nationals -Yankees game last night. No mask, no distancing when he thinks nobody is watching. Apparently he couldn’t find any empty seats so he could spread out a bit. Similar to the video showing him taking his face diaper off when he thought the cameras turned off. What a phony.

On another subject, here’s a preview of what will soon be coming to a theatre near you:

https://www.fox4now.com/news/coronavirus/naples-vice-mayor-asking-for-public-input-on-possible-vaccine-mandate

Too funny,,,

Yup hypocrite, just like all the politicians; liars and cheats and thieves the whole lot,,,

And why is he even out at a place like that, isn't he one of the first people to tell everyone to stay home!

This is why we have people not believing anything said by officials/leaders, even the common sense things.

Why do these people NEVER lead by example,,,

Very disappointing,,,

[XCR-700]

I don't know the answer to your question. However, in the video link below you can see him take the mask off as soon as he thinks the cameras are off. I doubt everyone in that room is a family member.

https://www.facebook.com/AmericasVoiceNews/videos/cameras-off-mask-off-dr-fauci-is-shown-removing-his-mask-when-the-network-camera/1679766395513240/

So frustrating,,,

You want to believe in these people, then you see this stuff and you cant help but wonder if you haven't been sold a load of horse****.

Very confusing and very disheartening to say the least.

[XCR-700]

It would be great to see an image of the room through a wide angle lens/not zoomed in. Looking at that, it doesn't look like he's within 6' of anyone else, which is the guideline, right?

I like this article: https://petapixel.com/2020/05/04/these-photos-show-how-easy-it-is-to-create-fake-news-with-photography/

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WRONG, thats when we are outside, when we are inside in common areas, they tell us wear masks all the time so as to not spread the virus all over the surfaces of areas other people will later use or come into contact with. And now they are saying not the original 3' or the later 6', but now up to 10'+. This is very troubling.

Also, just watch any of the press conferences, they all take their masks off at the podium, adjust the mic, touch the podium, and no one is cleaning up in between speakers.

What do they know that they are not telling us???

Or are they simply total hypocrites or liars.

Something is not right.

[XCR-700]

I think we got your stance on the Covid issue by now. You're not wearing a mask, all news about Covid is fake news, you don't believe in science, and you're not going to be one of the sheep. Maybe you should have a Covid party. :rolleye1:

Well as one of the sheep who has been wearing masks and suffering because of it, I am not happy to see this do as I say, not as I do behavior.

Why is it ok for the so-called experts and politicians to NEVER follow the rules, but we must endure the restrictions at any impact to us.

As someone with respiratory problems, I have also been wearing masks as we are told we should and I have been suffering impacts in the form of greatly increased breathing problems from the masks and greatly increased rescue inhailer usage, and now they have me on an inhaleable steroid to try to offset the impact of wearing masks. This is not a good progression, and I dont look forward to greater problems such as needing one of those portable oxygen generators. So I seek the truth about the situation, and all I see are lies and BS like this.

To say I am not happy to becoming increasingly dependent on medications with side effects is an understatement, and then only to find the leaders and experts do not follow their own guidance is infuriating.

Not happy to be further damaging my health for the cause when these people are not leading by example,,,

Really not happy about all this,,,

[FlyingScot]

WRONG, thats when we are outside, when we are inside in common areas, they tell us wear masks all the time so as to not spread the virus all over the surfaces of areas other people will later use or come into contact with. And now they are saying not the original 3' or the later 6', but now up to 10'+. This is very troubling.

Also, just watch any of the press conferences, they all take their masks off at the podium, adjust the mic, touch the podium, and no one is cleaning up in between speakers.

What do they know that they are not telling us???

Or are they simply total hypocrites or liars.

Something is not right.

The thing that is "not right" is this weird paranoia. The healthcare establishment has no incentive other than public health to push people to wear masks. You write as if Dr Fauci and virtually every other public health expert in the world has some master plan to use face masks against you. They are just trying to slow the spread of the virus

[Seaplane Pilot]

I think we got your stance on the Covid issue by now. You're not wearing a mask, all news about Covid is fake news, you don't believe in science, and you're not going to be one of the sheep. Maybe you should have a Covid party. :rolleye1:

You must have been a straight A student in school, because you sure do study and learn well. I'm impressed that you hit the nail on the head, except, however, for the "covid party". Here's your "rolleye" back at you. :rolleye1:

[Seaplane Pilot]

Well as one of the sheep who has been wearing masks and suffering because of it, I am not happy to see this do as I say, not as I do behavior.

Why is it ok for the so-called experts and politicians to NEVER follow the rules, but we must endure the restrictions at any impact to us.

As someone with respiratory problems, I have also been wearing masks as we are told we should and I have been suffering impacts in the form of greatly increased breathing problems from the masks and greatly increased rescue inhailer usage, and now they have me on an inhaleable steroid to try to offset the impact of wearing masks. This is not a good progression, and I dont look forward to greater problems such as needing one of those portable oxygen generators. So I seek the truth about the situation, and all I see are lies and BS like this.

To say I am not happy to becoming increasingly dependent on medications with side effects is an understatement, and then only to find the leaders and experts do not follow their own guidance is infuriating.

Not happy to be further damaging my health for the cause when these people are not leading by example,,,

Really not happy about all this,,,

Here's another hypocrite - Do as I say, not as I do:


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12205482/andrew-cuomo-new-york-georgia-not-wearing-mask/

[XCR-700]

Here's another hypocrite - Do as I say, not as I do:


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12205482/andrew-cuomo-new-york-georgia-not-wearing-mask/

Honestly it appears to be most of the politicians, our Gov Baker in MA and the mayor of Boston are horrible embarrassments.

Mayor Walsh while commenting about all the people in Boston lighting fireworks all night during the riots and pandemic lockdown, he actually said on camera that he blamed the companies selling the the fireworks not the people lighting them, as they were exploiting the Boston based buyers by sending ads to Massachusetts. No blame for the people lighting the fuses, just for the people selling product. A fully legal product where they are sold, but apparently advertising to MA residents and selling to people from out of state should be a punishable offense and he has asked the AG to send a cease and desist letter to the offending companies.

I couldnt make that one up if I tried,,,

Between my respiratory problems, blood pressure problems, and stress from the media and politicians, I expect to keel over at any minute,,,

If tomorrow wasnt the weekend, I would seek stress relief in the form of some anchor time (with NO music) just about anywhere reasonably quiet at the lake. Unfortunately given the weekend is unbearably busy, I think it would only add to my stress,,, Maybe next week, if I last that long.

[Biggd]

I'm sure if you followed around everyone wearing a mask you could catch them with it off at some point.
If you're dining with friends or family members that you know are not infected you're not wearing a mask.
People that refuse to wear a mask no matter the surroundings are just selfish.
I wear a mask when I need to. I don't wear it 100% of the time if I can keep a safe distance from people I don't know.

[LoveLakeLife]

Expecting others to conform their behavior to a false norm is selfish. If someone believes that infected people whom he doesn’t know are deliberately walking around trying to get within six feet of him, then he should stay home and cower. Expecting someone with respiratory problems to wear a mask, thus putting their own health in peril as has been described, so that others can have a false sense of security, is the selfish act.


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[XCR-700]

Gov Baker on TV right now with his team and not one person yet has had a mask as he announces ADDITIONAL restrictions.

Very confusing, very frustrating.

[fatlazyless]

Plymouth town green, across from hardware store, Sunday, July 26, noon-7:

Today's July 24 LaDaSun has a page 12 report on a public get-together, public conversation for the no-mask non-believers who want to express their dislike for the Town of Plymouth's proposal to require masks to be worn in public places what with the 4000 students at Plymouth State University who will be returning in August.

Talk about dumb? You know, after watching someone sick in a hospital bed, hooked up to a ventilator, it should take about two seconds to realize the need for wearing a mask.

You know the Plymouth Walmart now requires masks, so you can still buy a shotgun there, but now you need to wear a mask to do it.

[XCR-700]

Talk about dumb? You know, after watching someone sick in a hospital bed, hooked up to a ventilator, it should take about two seconds to realize the need for wearing a mask.


What I find interesting is that in the past 50 years of true modern medicine, we NEVER wore masks for ANYTHING.

Then in one "2 second" moment of clarity, we all realized we all need masks,,,

Oh, except for politicials, experts, the media and select others,,,

After just watching Gov Baker, I feel certain all the wealthy and connected people are wearing their masks and not traveling and not throwing parties and social distancing as they are supposed to. NOT

So what do we actually know; COVID spreads fast, some people suffer very badly, some people die, most infected people dont even know they have it.

People with COVID get fast-tracked to ventilators, a large number of people who go on ventilators dont recover. People who are not put on ventilators actually seem to do better, much better than the people who were rushed to ventilators. Infection rates are up, but deaths are way down. No one agrees on what medications are working as treatments,,, We have a stated goal of "slowing the virus down" but when the infection numbers decline, we dont back off restrictions and let the virus run its course, as if we can beat it somehow,,,

Again, very confusing and NOT AT ALL CLEAR. No one is leading by example. The rules for us, dont apply to them. I really do wonder whats going on and losing all faith that we are being told the truth or the whole truth,,,

Sorry, but as someone who has been drinking the KoolAid, its starting to taste like Tang, and I am finding with every passing day I want Pepsi,,,

Still very frustrated and working toward angry.

[Mr. V]

As I predicted, maskes are now being used to project one's sense of fashion.

see: https://www.columbian.com/news/2020/jul/24/fashion-sense-revealed-by-masks/

My question: would it be seen as disrespectful to use the American flag as a mask?

[Jdarby]

People with COVID get fast-tracked to ventilators, a large number of people who go on ventilators dont recover. People who are not put on ventilators actually seem to do better, much better than the people who were rushed to ventilators.


I have a degree in Respiratory Therapy and worked in critical care for many years. The decision to place someone on a ventilator due to acute illness is never taken lightly. When a COVID patient is intubated, they are in extremus. So I don’t think it’s accurate to say people were fast-tracked to ventilators. Being on a ventilator is bad. It is physiologically abnormal and bad things happen to the lungs and body because of it. As a Respiratory Therapist, our goal was to do everything to avoid having to place a patient on a ventilator and once they were on, we did everything to get them off ASAP. Generally speaking, COVID patients do not fair well on ventilators. There are alternative means of oxygenating critically ill patients such as ECMO but this requires very specialized equipment and staff that can only be found in larger healthcare centers. Be well!

[XCR-700]

I have a degree in Respiratory Therapy and worked in critical care for many years. The decision to place someone on a ventilator due to acute illness is never taken lightly. When a COVID patient is intubated, they are in extremus. So I don’t think it’s accurate to say people were fast-tracked to ventilators. Being on a ventilator is bad. It is physiologically abnormal and bad things happen to the lungs and body because of it. As a Respiratory Therapist, our goal was to do everything to avoid having to place a patient on a ventilator and once they were on, we did everything to get them off ASAP. Generally speaking, COVID patients do not fair well on ventilators. There are alternative means of oxygenating critically ill patients such as ECMO but this requires very specialized equipment and staff that can only be found in larger healthcare centers. Be well!

That is not speculation by me, it was reported extensively by so called experts in the medical field to the media in numerous interviews I watched.

The alleged expert doctors were claiming in these interviews that they learned over time that even though the patients blood oxygen levels were lower than they had ever seen in people still walking around, patients seemed to actually respond better to simple oxygen masks and other treatments, with better long term recovery than those who were intubated an hooked up to ventilators.

I know nothing about this other than what the experts said when interviewed on TV, so if you tell me they are wrong, I have no basis to dispute the matter with you and I will assume this is yet another example of bad reporting by the media and more BS experts shooting their mouths off when they dont know what they are talking about.

Which takes us back to what do we actually know, and it again seems that the conflicts and contradictions cast a dark cloud over the things many say are fact.

More frustrated with every passing day, and questioning what I actually know with every new tidbit of information.

The old saying of believe half of what you see and NONE of what you hear seems more appropriate every day. Or maybe it was said best on the old X-Files show, Trust No One

[Jdarby]

That is not speculation by me, it was reported extensively by so called experts in the medical field to the media in numerous interviews I watched.

The alleged expert doctors were claiming in these interviews that they learned over time that even though the patients blood oxygen levels were lower than they had ever seen in people still walking around, patients seemed to actually respond better to simple oxygen masks and other treatments, with better long term recovery than those who were intubated an hooked up to ventilators.

I know nothing about this other than what the experts said when interviewed on TV, so if you tell me they are wrong, I have no basis to dispute the matter with you and I will assume this is yet another example of bad reporting by the media and more BS experts shooting their mouths off when they dont know what they are talking about.

Which takes us back to what do we actually know, and it again seems that the conflicts and contradictions cast a dark cloud over the things many say are fact.

More frustrated with every passing day, and questioning what I actually know with every new tidbit of information.

The old saying of believe half of what you see and NONE of what you hear seems more appropriate every day. Or maybe it was said best on the old X-Files show, Trust No One

I didn’t think you were speculating. I saw the same media reports. A lot of this was “dumbed down” for the sake of reporting to the public. Be well!

[thinkxingu]

The last two posts got me thinking about: https://www.amazon.com/Death-Expertise-Campaign-Established-Knowledge/dp/0190469412

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16253

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[FlyingScot]

Gov Baker on TV right now with his team and not one person yet has had a mask as he announces ADDITIONAL restrictions.

Very confusing, very frustrating.

Confusing only to you. Governor Baker has united almost the entire state behind him in what has been an exceptionally effective effort to beat back the virus from it's pre-social isolation flare up. Whatever he's doing, it's been damn effective, and we should be grateful in NH as well

[Biggd]

You must have been a straight A student in school, because you sure do study and learn well. I'm impressed that you hit the nail on the head, except, however, for the "covid party". Here's your "rolleye" back at you. :rolleye1:
I took that same test that Trump took and aced it. My doctor told me "that's amazing, I never seen someone do so well on this test". I guess I should run for President.[emoji23] [emoji23]

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[XCR-700]

Confusing only to you. Governor Baker has united almost the entire state behind him in what has been an exceptionally effective effort to beat back the virus from it's pre-social isolation flare up. Whatever he's doing, it's been damn effective, and we should be grateful in NH as well

"Beat back" are you kidding me, who told you that nonsense, we did a crap job as usual. Matter of fact, at 4th place in deaths per million population, very few states did worse,,, Florida with its current spike has still had far less deaths, but has triple the population of MA, and its population is much poorer and their medical facilities are considered not comparable to MA and yet they are doing way better than MA,,,

State Deaths/1M pop
New Jersey 1,783
New York 1,679
Connecticut 1,238
Massachusetts 1,233
Florida 263

Instead on wasting time on nonsense and drama in Massachusetts, they should have sent 10% of the hospital staff to the nursing homes to help those poor people who got garbage treatment.

Do you want to talk about horrific mishandling of this event, countless people died alone and afraid because even with PPE you were not allowed to visit them in the hospital even knowing there was little risk to some of the potential visitors and the patients were on their deathbeds. That was inexcusable, INEXCUSABLE.

This is not Ebola or the plague, its an aggressive respiratory virus, NOTHING more. There is no mystery. Its a flu, a very bad flu, and the flu kills 10's of thousands every year, but NEVER in the past did we panic and respond so ineffectively and so harmfully as we have this time. With every passing day I question what is really going on, but in no way am I confused about how well Massachusetts did managing this event, we got a big fat F.

As a 30 year resident of Massachusetts (this time) I can say with complete conviction and authority that Massachusetts is not an example to anyone for any reason except what not to do about anything, and Baker makes that bumbling fool Romney look like a genius. Bakers only saving grace is that he is marginally better than that total idiot Patrick that we suffered through.

Why any of us stays here in MA is a dumbfounding mystery, except that there are even worse places, such as RI, CT NY, NJ, CA just to name a few.

I would have relocated to NH 20+ years ago except that everything south of Concord is nothing but transplanted MA residents who brought there wrong headed and nonsensical ideology with them to totally corrupt the southern part of the state, and there is little work north of Concord.

NH north of Concord and any part of NH 30 years ago are not comparable to the current southern part of the state, but even that is starting to look way better than Massachusetts,,,

Just wait to see the exodus from CA, NY, NJ, and MA that is coming. Better hope too many dont jump to NH or they will price everyone out south of RT 302.

NEVER thought I would hear anyone praising Massachusetts for ANYTHING,,,

Praising Massachusetts is like some episode of the Twilight Zone where the universe works backwards,,,

[Biggd]

It's not a flu! The flu is seasonal and goes away when the weather warms up. This has not gone away, and has actually gotten worse in warmer climates like Florida and Texas. Other than the nursing home fiasco I think Ma has done good job and Baker is to be commended. If youre not happy in Ma I suggest you leave and don't let the door hit you on the way out! If you've lived in Ma for 30 years, as you say, your property hase increased in value 4 fold. You should do pretty well moving to NH.

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[XCR-700]

It's not a flu! The flu is seasonal and goes away when the weather warms up. This has not gone away, and has actually gotten worse in warmer climates like Florida and Texas. Other than the nursing home fiasco I think Ma has done good job and Baker is to be commended. If youre not happy in Ma I suggest you leave and don't let the door hit you on the way out!

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Not that Wikipedia should be a reference for anything, but:

Influenza, commonly known as "the flu", is an infectious disease caused by an influenza virus

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is an infectious disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)

So to some degree you are correct, the "flu" is not even just the flu, its an infectious disease in the same way COVID is an infectious disease.

Both with major respiratory impacts to humans.

Some times in America, we too commonly do not use the Queens English and tend to speak in American slang, hence the term flu, which should be limited to the Influenza virus.

But from laymans perspective the slang fits. Like gassing up the car even if it uses Diesel, or stepping on the gas even if its an electric car.

My apologies for the sloppy use of medical terminology.

As for my comments about Massachusetts, I stand by them. It is not a state to be held up as a role model example for anything.

And as for leaving, once I retire, I'll be gone to anywhere better so fast there is no chance of any door hitting anything, but I'm not particularly concerned, I seriously doubt that if Baker is still Governor that said door would even work,,, god knows it has not worked for the past 30 years I have been here.

If you are happy with Massachusetts, I am happy for you, please enjoy it, god knows someone should.

ATB

[Biggd]

Not that Wikipedia should be a reference for anything, but:

Influenza, commonly known as "the flu", is an infectious disease caused by an influenza virus

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is an infectious disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)

So to some degree you are correct, the "flu" is not even just the flu, its an infectious disease in the same way COVID is an infectious disease.

Both with major respiratory impacts to humans.

Some times in America, we too commonly do not use the Queens English and tend to speak in American slang, hence the term flu, which should be limited to the Influenza virus.

But from laymans perspective the slang fits. Like gassing up the car even if it uses Diesel, or stepping on the gas even if its an electric car.

My apologies for the sloppy use of medical terminology.

As for my comments about Massachusetts, I stand by them. It is not a state to be held up as a role model example for anything.

And as for leaving, once I retire, I'll be gone to anywhere better so fast there is no chance of any door hitting anything, but I'm not particularly concerned, I seriously doubt that if Baker is still Governor that said door would even work,,, god knows it has not worked for the past 30 years I have been here.

If you are happy with Massachusetts, I am happy for you, please enjoy it, god knows someone should.

ATB
I've been here for 65 years and Ma has been very good to me. Although I don't want to retire here, but as a business owner and multiple property owner I can't complain one bit. NH is a great to retire to but I would not have been as financial stable if I invested my money there as opposed to Ma. I have no negatives for Ma. I think it's the best it's ever been!

[Pricestavern]

I was going to write a snappy little retort about there being little risk to certain people. Then it really dawned on me. Why?

In the end, this is a pointless argument. At this point with people, it is a Belief, mask or no mask. You hear it all the time, "I believe/don't believe masks do anything." It has become dogma and people have become too invested in their 'position'. This has to be the 100th argument/conversation (arguversation?) I've witnessed and in not one of them did one side be persuaded. Not once.

The nation reels from what is going on. Whether the 'going on' is made up or not, the nation reels. There are deaths - overblown? undercounted? It's a hell of a thing to actually have to argue about how many deaths are 'enough'. They are still deaths.

I'll wear my mask and bid you a distant good day to those who will not wear a mask. I may roll my eyes up, but to what end? Just looking upwards, hoping for help.

[Jdarby]

I was going to write a snappy little retort about there being little risk to certain people. Then it really dawned on me. Why?



In the end, this is a pointless argument. At this point with people, it is a Belief, mask or no mask. You hear it all the time, "I believe/don't believe masks do anything." It has become dogma and people have become too invested in their 'position'. This has to be the 100th argument/conversation (arguversation?) I've witnessed and in not one of them did one side be persuaded. Not once.



The nation reels from what is going on. Whether the 'going on' is made up or not, the nation reels. There are deaths - overblown? undercounted? It's a hell of a thing to actually have to argue about how many deaths are 'enough'. They are still deaths.



I'll wear my mask and bid you a distant good day to those who will not wear a mask. I may roll my eyes up, but to what end? Just looking upwards, hoping for help.



AMEN! I’m tapping out as well. There was some reasonable discussion but now we’re calling COVID the flu!? It’s like calling your Boston Whaler, Formula, or SeaRay a kayak! What’s it matter, they’re all boats!? Be well all and Godspeed to the return of some normalcy to our great nation!

[fatlazyless]

:offtopic: VERMONT

www.vpr.org/post/governor-phil-scott-issues-statewide-face-mask-mandate#stream/0

And, Vermont Gov Phil Scott is a Republican, so's it could definitely happen here in New Hampshire with Republican Gov Chris Sununu. Gov Sununu has said it's all about the numbers, and take a look at the numbers graph in the VPR-link.

"It's all about the numbers."

On August 1, New Hampshire will become a public space, no mask island, surrounded on all four sides by the mask up states of Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, and Quebec.

[ApS]

I've never been without my trusty mask. It's the wrong one for Covid-19, but good for sawdust, and wearing it keeps the spirits "up" of other would-be-sufferers.

Tucked under my glasses, they don't get steamed-up. It's "disinfected" by stretching it out on my dashboard. When exiting, the mask goes onto my forehead, and when entering a store, it's lowered appropriately.

While I thought masks were scarcely necessary, and I was (as far as I knew), healthy, I managed to produce a big wet sneeze in a grocery aisle. (Fortunately, that aisle was empty of customers, and I scurried around the corner).

The country most uniformly observant of mask-wearing is Japan, which is most affected by viruses from the continental mainland where these viruses evolve--and are spread every winter.

Trying to make independent-minded Americans obey such sensible precautions is like herding cats!

Politics has made it worse, as prolonging this pandemic definitely disrupts America's traditional "gearing" in significant ways. The information distressing so many on this forum is "noise" regurgitated to prolong the distress.

We'll get over this...Turn off your TV!

[FlyingScot]

"Beat back" are you kidding me, who told you that nonsense, we did a crap job as usual. Matter of fact, at 4th place in deaths per million population, very few states did worse,,, Florida with its current spike has still had far less deaths, but has triple the population of MA, and its population is much poorer and their medical facilities are considered not comparable to MA and yet they are doing way better than MA,,,





As I'm sure you know (because frankly you seem a bit obsessed)--the Mass cases were early, driven by pre-isolation exposures, as I said in my original post. So I wish you wouldn't publish stuff that twists what I wrote.

Also, I'm pretty sure that you and almost everyone else on this Board knows that Mass has made huge progress against COVID-19 over the past couple of months, and that simultaneously Florida is getting absolutely crushed. We all saw just a day or two ago that the President was forced to cancel his convention in Floridas because the situation is so much worse now than when he moved it to Florida just a few weeks ago.

I think we'd all agree that the President was right to cancel--don't you think?

[XCR-700]

As I'm sure you know (because frankly you seem a bit obsessed)--the Mass cases were early, driven by pre-isolation exposures, as I said in my original post. So I wish you wouldn't publish stuff that twists what I wrote.

Also, I'm pretty sure that you and almost everyone else on this Board knows that Mass has made huge progress against COVID-19 over the past couple of months, and that simultaneously Florida is getting absolutely crushed. We all saw just a day or two ago that the President was forced to cancel his convention in Floridas because the situation is so much worse now than when he moved it to Florida just a few weeks ago.

I think we'd all agree that the President was right to cancel--don't you think?

RE:"because frankly you seem a bit obsessed "

Well because frankly it is impacting me significantly, well mostly the restrictions, as I personally dont know anyone that has tested positive, fortunately. That said, I have personally suffered significant health problems but not because of being infected, but because of lack of exercise due to confinement, and the stress for listinging to the news way too much, and reading blogs like this, and the respiratory challenges I endure from wearing masks compounding old health problems.

Not to be a smart ass, but given my willingness to admit my obsession, is is safe to assume you also admit and consider yourself similarly "obsessed" as you also keep responding to this thread with just as much piss and vinegar as I do and several others? (Obsessed being your term, not mine, I simply use it for continuity, but only up to this point as it would not be my first choice, so this ends my use of the term in this post)

As for the impact of pre vs post isolation infection, I think the bigger concern is early vs late infection. The total number infected is of little concern to me, as I do not believe we have any (thats ANY!) ability to actually stop or beat viruses of this type and magnitude. We can slow them down to some degree, but I dont even think too much in reality, and just as soon as you let up on the restrictions, it will restart, so in my mind we are all only delaying the inevitable.

Not that thats a bad thing, it gives us time to learn how to treat the people infected, and that I believe should be the major strategy.

But at some point, restrictions will have to be lifted, and the infection will spread through the population (as it is in the south and west) I truly do not believe it will go away, it will lurk in isolated individuals, until such time as a larger group is exposed and it will just restart as if it were day one.

So for me, the total number of infected people is only marker or data point and not at all of the most concern. The number one value of concern is deaths, followed by people in ICU, and then those with long-term lingering effects.

Number of infected should not be our focus because you cannot stop it, but looking at the death rate per million population of NJ at 1784 vs FL at 269 and now you have an story of the medical industry learning how to manage a pandemic! Do we really care if FL has ~350,000 cases if most are asymptomatic? What should concern us most is the ~3400 people in ICU's and how best to treat them. So Bravo to the medical professional for turning this pandemic around and finding treatments that save lives. Thats real world winning against the virus!

If you FlyingScot truly believe we can stop and beat the virus and "win", I do not agree, but I am not going to belittle you or demean you for that opinion. I simply do not share your perspective.

As someone is following the rules as much as possible/reasonable, I sit here with my hair down to me shoulders, not having had a hair cut since February, with trusty albuterol inhaler at hand right alongside the mask that is causing me to need it, and a bottle of hand sanitizer in each of my cars and in the boat, and not believing any of it has or will have a significant impact on the overall outcome. I am simply drinking the KoolAid and not liking it, but being a dutiful citizen.

Truly hoping to end on a non-hostile note, even if we dont agree on some or all aspects of this matter.

I enjoy hearing and understanding others perspectives even when my opinion is in complete conflict.

I truly detest it when we devolve in these discussions to hostile responses and personal attacks.

ATB

[Biggd]

RE:"because frankly you seem a bit obsessed "

Well because frankly it is impacting me significantly, well mostly the restrictions, as I personally dont know anyone that has tested positive, fortunately. That said, I have personally suffered significant health problems but not because of being infected, but because of lack of exercise due to confinement, and the stress for listinging to the news way too much, and reading blogs like this, and the respiratory challenges I endure from wearing masks compounding old health problems.

Not to be a smart ass, but given my willingness to admit my obsession, is is safe to assume you also admit and consider yourself similarly "obsessed" as you also keep responding to this thread with just as much piss and vinegar as I do and several others? (Obsessed being your term, not mine, I simply use it for continuity, but only up to this point as it would not be my first choice, so this ends my use of the term in this post)

As for the impact of pre vs post isolation infection, I think the bigger concern is early vs late infection. The total number infected is of little concern to me, as I do not believe we have any (thats ANY!) ability to actually stop or beat viruses of this type and magnitude. We can slow them down to some degree, but I dont even think too much in reality, and just as soon as you let up on the restrictions, it will restart, so in my mind we are all only delaying the inevitable.

Not that thats a bad thing, it gives us time to learn how to treat the people infected, and that I believe should be the major strategy.

But at some point, restrictions will have to be lifted, and the infection will spread through the population (as it is in the south and west) I truly do not believe it will go away, it will lurk in isolated individuals, until such time as a larger group is exposed and it will just restart as if it were day one.

So for me, the total number of infected people is only marker or data point and not at all of the most concern. The number one value of concern is deaths, followed by people in ICU, and then those with long-term lingering effects.

Number of infected should not be our focus because you cannot stop it, but looking at the death rate per million population of NJ at 1784 vs FL at 269 and now you have an story of the medical industry learning how to manage a pandemic! Do we really care if FL has ~350,000 cases if most are asymptomatic? What should concern us most is the ~3400 people in ICU's and how best to treat them. So Bravo to the medical professional for turning this pandemic around and finding treatments that save lives. Thats real world winning against the virus!

If you FlyingScot truly believe we can stop and beat the virus and "win", I do not agree, but I am not going to belittle you or demean you for that opinion. I simply do not share your perspective.

As someone is following the rules as much as possible/reasonable, I sit here with my hair down to me shoulders, not having had a hair cut since February, with trusty albuterol inhaler at hand right alongside the mask that is causing me to need it, and a bottle of hand sanitizer in each of my cars and in the boat, and not believing any of it has or will have a significant impact on the overall outcome. I am simply drinking the KoolAid and not liking it, but being a dutiful citizen.

Truly hoping to end on a non-hostile note, even if we dont agree on some or all aspects of this matter.

I enjoy hearing and understanding others perspectives even when my opinion is in complete conflict.

I truly detest it when we devolve in these discussions to hostile responses and personal attacks.

ATB


I haven't met too many people that live in Ma that have been upset with the way Baker has handled things so I think you're in the minority.
You sound like you are blaming Baker for your health issues. If you don't don't believe in the mitigation he's put out then, by all means, don"t watch TV and go about your business as usual. Maybe that will work better for you.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[ApS]

Excerpt:

(How "ruling by decree" happens...)

"For months now, every new day has brought new headlines about total COVID-19 infections, total deaths, and estimates put out by models claiming to predict how many deaths will soon occur.

These numbers have become the focal point of many politicians' careers. This is especially true for state governors and other politicians in executive positions, who now in this time of "emergency" essentially rule by decree.

New edicts are regularly issued by policymakers, allegedly based on an assessment of the all-important numbers."

More, and comments at Mises Institute:

https://mises.org/wire/covid-panic-lesson-using-statistics-get-your-way-politics

[XCR-700]

I haven't met too many people that live in Ma that have been upset with the way Baker has handled things so I think you're in the minority.
You sound like you are blaming Baker for your health issues. If you don't don't believe in the mitigation he's put out then, by all means, don"t watch TV and go about your business as usual. Maybe that will work better for you.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

RE: I haven't met too many people that live in Ma that have been upset with the way Baker has handled things so I think you're in the minority.

Clearly we run in different circles, as I am literally surrounded by the "Faker Baker" crew and I am considered very centrist by my friends and I'm on the fringe or often outside of their sometimes extreme positions. The "silent minority" or very conservative people in MA are in fact not so much a minority, they appear to just be waiting for the right moment for another Boston Tea Party. I fear it will be ugly when it happens, as it will be so shocking to the extremest on the other side that have enjoyed power so long, that they will be in utter turmoil. A better solution would be a reasonable middle ground, but I dont see it. Eventually one of the movements like the sanctuary city efforts or similar light a fuse that will wreak havoc on Massachusetts violently dividing the state and ending badly for all,,, Well thats my doom and gloom crystal ball prediction. I hope to be retired and somewhere much better before it happens.

As for the comment about blaming Baker for my health problems, well truth is he didnt start the mask movement and even resisted it for a while, but I do think overall he has made a royal mess of the pandemic. Way too many things went way too wrong under his watch. I just dont see him as effective. But he is part of a series of bigger problems. Law abiding citizens in Massachusetts have a much harder time legally buying guns than criminals AND WE PAY MORE! Undocumented AND illegal aliens can get drivers licenses, and in Cambridge even if they dont have a license, they dont stop them from driving, they tell them to go home and park the car,,, But god forbid my license was expired and I got caught driving, the car would be towed, I would get a fine, and my insurance would go up,,, Trouper-gate was an appalling breach of public trust, and what has come of it, virtually nothing. Corruption across Massachusetts revels Chicago, Atlanta, Baltimore, NY etc, and again all we do is pass laws restrict citizens and tax them more to pay for the corruption. These are just a few examples of so many problems that should and could be better. And I see Baker as either contributing to the problem, or unable to muster the leadership needed to address them.

Your are clearly very happy with how Massachusetts runs and with Bakers leadership, and I am glad you are happy. Its very tough living somewhere you dont like or even respect what they do or their standards. But until my youngest is done with high school I dont want to uproot him and separate him from all his friends. Once he is college bound, I hope to be out of Massachusetts as fast as humanly possible.

You dont have to like anything I am saying or agree with any of my opinions and observations, but at least please respect that I am just being honest with you. Too many play stupid games on these forums for their own quirky and weird reasons, I am as truthful as possible and just have my own opinions that may differ than yours.

I will say again, its interesting to see how divisive this matter is, and at such a personal level.

ATB

[Biggd]

Wow, thankfully we clearly don't run in the same circles.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[Winilyme]

RE: I haven't met too many people that live in Ma that have been upset with the way Baker has handled things so I think you're in the minority.

Clearly we run in different circles, as I am literally surrounded by the "Faker Baker" crew and I am considered very centrist by my friends and I'm on the fringe or often outside of their sometimes extreme positions. The "silent minority" or very conservative people in MA are in fact not so much a minority, they appear to just be waiting for the right moment for another Boston Tea Party. I fear it will be ugly when it happens, as it will be so shocking to the extremest on the other side that have enjoyed power so long, that they will be in utter turmoil. A better solution would be a reasonable middle ground, but I dont see it. Eventually one of the movements like the sanctuary city efforts or similar light a fuse that will wreak havoc on Massachusetts violently dividing the state and ending badly for all,,, Well thats my doom and gloom crystal ball prediction. I hope to be retired and somewhere much better before it happens.

As for the comment about blaming Baker for my health problems, well truth is he didnt start the mask movement and even resisted it for a while, but I do think overall he has made a royal mess of the pandemic. Way too many things went way too wrong under his watch. I just dont see him as effective. But he is part of a series of bigger problems. Law abiding citizens in Massachusetts have a much harder time legally buying guns than criminals AND WE PAY MORE! Undocumented AND illegal aliens can get drivers licenses, and in Cambridge even if they dont have a license, they dont stop them from driving, they tell them to go home and park the car,,, But god forbid my license was expired and I got caught driving, the car would be towed, I would get a fine, and my insurance would go up,,, Trouper-gate was an appalling breach of public trust, and what has come of it, virtually nothing. Corruption across Massachusetts revels Chicago, Atlanta, Baltimore, NY etc, and again all we do is pass laws restrict citizens and tax them more to pay for the corruption. These are just a few examples of so many problems that should and could be better. And I see Baker as either contributing to the problem, or unable to muster the leadership needed to address them.

Your are clearly very happy with how Massachusetts runs and with Bakers leadership, and I am glad you are happy. Its very tough living somewhere you dont like or even respect what they do or their standards. But until my youngest is done with high school I dont want to uproot him and separate him from all his friends. Once he is college bound, I hope to be out of Massachusetts as fast as humanly possible.

You dont have to like anything I am saying or agree with any of my opinions and observations, but at least please respect that I am just being honest with you. Too many play stupid games on these forums for their own quirky and weird reasons, I am as truthful as possible and just have my own opinions that may differ than yours.

I will say again, its interesting to see how divisive this matter is, and at such a personal level.

ATB
I think it’s sad that you are living your life in a place that you dislike so much. All these difficult years that you’ll never get back.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I think it’s sad that you are living your life in a place that you dislike so much. All these difficult years that you’ll never get back.

Winilyme, I couldn’t say it better....life is way too short to be in such an unhappy place, both mentally and physically. Wasting your days, months, years in a place you detest so much is terrible, and each wasted minute is gone forever. I hope this individual has the gumption to make a change.

[XCR-700]

Winilyme, I couldn’t say it better....life is way too short to be in such an unhappy place, both mentally and physically. Wasting your days, months, years in a place you detest so much is terrible, and each wasted minute is gone forever. I hope this individual has the gumption to make a change.

:offtopic:

All things are easy in a perfect world, but in our world with 2 full time working professionals, relocating and leaving our current jobs behind is not so easy.

And both my wife and I were children of gypsys, and were moved around so many times we cant count the houses we lived in and we both agreed that if there was any way possible, we would not subject our children to that and we wanted our children to live in the same place from 1st grade until the end of high school. I am proud to say we are now within 3 years of the end of that journey.

Once our second son is out of high school, we are gone!

We were recently very tempted by a house in Gilford, that checked all the boxes, but it only took a moment to know what the impact to a sensitive kid would be to relocate him 3 years from graduation and from all the friends he has known since preschool.

Given my last vacation was like 9 years ago, and the one before that maybe 7 years more, and that I have never taken 2 weeks in a row, I think I can endure even Massachusetts for 3 more years. Maybe a vacation in between would help, but I'm not promising,,,

Some may disagree with our values and goals, but my wife and I do EVERYTHING for the kids. We are trying very hard to give them better lives than we had as kids, and so far we have pulled it off. So I dont see myself giving up when we are so close to the end.

Hoping wherever we end up, will be a place the kids will want to visit often, and so far they both love NH and its a place we all enjoy.

Living in Massachusetts has been a means to an end that we gladly endured for the outcome we desire.

So shed no tears for me, I seek no pity.

TICK, Tick, tick,,,