This Winni forum

[chasedawg]

Reading the posts over the last month or so especially recently during the Covid 19 pandemic this forum has taken on so much bitterness that it is not helping the cause to survive this epidemic. People want to hear hope not digging into each other. My wife got off this forum last year because she noticed it was starting to get gun slinging attitude. I told her you should see it now.

Come on folks let's help each other. Many need help! Perhaps even some on this form may need help. Let's reach out and ask if there is anything we can do to help you. What can we do to help? NO need to turn it in to political negative debate.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Reading the posts over the last month or so especially recently during the Covid 19 pandemic this forum has taken on so much bitterness that it is not helping the cause to survive this epidemic. People want to hear hope not digging into each other. My wife got off this forum last year because she noticed it was starting to get gun slinging attitude. I told her you should see it now.

Come on folks let's help each other. Many need help! Perhaps even some on this form may need help. Let's reach out and ask if there is anything we can do to help you. What can we do to help? NO need to turn it in to political negative debate.

Right now is such a stressful time for all of us, not knowing when we’re ever going to be somewhat “normal”, being cooped up within 4 walls most of the time, so I think that we need to be more positive in our posts and try not to make snarky replies to fellow posters’ remarks. From a personal standpoint, we are hoping to get our currently uninhabitable house back sometime in the next month or so, but we can’t even get back to N.H. to make selections and oversee anything. The hotels are closed, and we have no place to stay. We wouldn’t even consider imposing on friends after being in two airports. Everything is being done long distance, and that is not the way we would choose to do this. Sorry...I got sidetracked. The point is.... life is pretty stressful for us all right now, so we need to be kind to one another and try to be patient. Sometimes that’s tough!

[Mr. V]

From a personal standpoint, we are hoping to get our currently uninhabitable house back sometime in the next month or so, but we can’t even get back to N.H. to make selections and oversee anything. The hotels are closed, and we have no place to stay.

This may not be a viable option for you, but it would work: find an RV on craigslist, buy it, stock it with food and drive to NH.

Once you're here you could live in the RV until your NH home can be occupied, then you can either keep or sell the RV.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

This may not be a viable option for you, but it would work: find an RV on craigslist, buy it, stock it with food and drive to NH.

Once you're here you could live in the RV until your NH home can be occupied, then you can either keep or sell the RV.

That’s a very creative idea, and we appreciate the thought. We might end up doing something like that....for now, we have fingers crossed that the state will be opened up, and we can get the show on the road, staying in a local motel. 🤞

[TiltonBB]

The flights are pretty empty and cheap right now. I flew from Ft. Myers to Boston, non-stop, on Jet Blue a couple of weeks ago. $17.40 for the fare.

I was alone in my row and there were 6 empty rows in front of me and two empty rows behind me. I did wear a mask but I figure if the airplane air was that bad there would be stories about pilots dropping all over the place. I haven't seen any of those.

I would bet if something like that worked for you some local motels would give you a great rate now. It is before the busy season and I know they have had a lot of cancellations. I would also think you could include much of that cost in your insurance claim since your house is uninhabitable.

[thinkxingu]

People want to hear hope not digging into each other. My wife got off this forum last year because she noticed it was starting to get gun slinging attitude. I told her you should see it now.

Come on folks let's help each other.

I've made this point a few different times on a few different threads. It is disappointing that it happens, and even more disappointing when no other members call it out.

[Doobs41378]

The flights are pretty empty and cheap right now. I flew from Ft. Myers to Boston, non-stop, on Jet Blue a couple of weeks ago. $17.40 for the fare.

I was alone in my row and there were 6 empty rows in front of me and two empty rows behind me. I did wear a mask but I figure if the airplane air was that bad there would be stories about pilots dropping all over the place. I haven't seen any of those.

I would bet if something like that worked for you some local motels would give you a great rate now. It is before the busy season and I know they have had a lot of cancellations. I would also think you could include much of that cost in your insurance claim since your house is uninhabitable.

I believe hotels are closed until further notice.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

The flights are pretty empty and cheap right now. I flew from Ft. Myers to Boston, non-stop, on Jet Blue a couple of weeks ago. $17.40 for the fare.

I was alone in my row and there were 6 empty rows in front of me and two empty rows behind me. I did wear a mask but I figure if the airplane air was that bad there would be stories about pilots dropping all over the place. I haven't seen any of those.

I would bet if something like that worked for you some local motels would give you a great rate now. It is before the busy season and I know they have had a lot of cancellations. I would also think you could include much of that cost in your insurance claim since your house is uninhabitable.

Our insurance is not the problem. They will pay for our lodging, but the Center Harbor Inn is closed because of the pandemic, as are all the others, and will probably stay closed until our governor clears places to open. We are hoping that happens right after 5/4.

[Top-Water]

This may not be a viable option for you, but it would work: find an RV on craigslist, buy it, stock it with food and drive to NH.

Once you're here you could live in the RV until your NH home can be occupied, then you can either keep or sell the RV.

Sounds like this option would be like
"Living in a van down by the river." :):)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8

[AC2717]

maybe check to see if anyone is renting their cottage or home out for a long term rental or even for just a month as a start

[SailinAway]

I think it's inevitable that the virus crisis leads to bitterness and conflict. This crisis---perhaps any crisis---reveals things that were fundamentally wrong in a society before the crisis. Of course, people don't see those things the same way. For example, not everyone is convinced that all people deserve healthcare, or that it should be affordable (or free). So naturally a health crisis is going to exacerbate that division of social beliefs. Not everyone agrees that all people should have affordable housing. So when there's an economic crisis and people can no longer pay their rent or their mortgage (which were too high before the crisis), there is disagreement about what should be done.

Another fundamental question that shows a deep divide in our country is who we should be concerned about and protect: ourselves, family, strangers we come in contact with, state, nation, continent, or world? Should I have to give up my freedom so someone else is protected? That question caused a vehement argument in this forum.

And of course there's the question of responsibility. If people can't take care of themselves, who should help them? Should my taxes be used to take care of my neighbor, people in other states, people in other countries, small businesses, large corporations? Again, a deep divide.

Politics is not something that stands alone and can be kept separate from the rest of our lives. Politics is a direct reflection of our society, values, and beliefs. Maybe the most important beliefs are about power and wealth---how much power and wealth different kinds of people deserve and what they can't and can't do with it.

In that sense, COVID-19 is a political event, and it's not surprising that people quickly stake out a political position on it. However, your point is still very well taken: we certainly need to come together and help one another and solve this crisis together. (Notice, though, that that statement itself reflects a particular political belief about the unity of society or the world.) My hope is that when it's over, we will be able to look back and see the social causes of the crisis and fix some of the broken things that led to it.

[SAB1]

Yup pretty much agree Chasedawg but that’s the way these forums go. been on some great ones in the past but they all seem to go down the crapper. I was a member here back in the late 90’s early 2000’s. Was very amicable then. I moved off when it went downhill and just came back a few years ago under another name. Rarely post now though.

[Mr. V]

Sounds like this option would be like
"Living in a van down by the river." :):)

It depends on the size and quality of the RV.

Some of those are amazing.

My son sells them, and I was surprised at how much RV you can get for your buck, provided you buy used.

[chasedawg]

Yup pretty much agree Chasedawg but that’s the way these forums go. been on some great ones in the past but they all seem to go down the crapper. I was a member here back in the late 90’s early 2000’s. Was very amicable then. I moved off when it went downhill and just came back a few years ago under another name. Rarely post now though.

Many of us seem to agree. Any ideas how this can be turned aound so that we can get relief from the hostile snappy negative attitude?

[thinkxingu]

Many of us seem to agree. Any ideas how this can be turned aound so that we can get relief from the hostile snappy negative attitude?1. Call people out for it.
2. Ignore it.
3. Play with it.
4. Admin gets aggressive with redefining what's appropriate.

I actually don't mind the political stuff getting a tad nasty—though it's not my MO, it's to be expected in a political section/thread given today's climate. I'm more annoyed by the "post police" who show up to ridicule "too many posts" or "you should know that."

My philosophy: if you've nothing to add, move along.

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[The Real BigGuy]

Many of us seem to agree. Any ideas how this can be turned aound so that we can get relief from the hostile snappy negative attitude?

We need to get people to understand that there are multiple sides to all situations/questions, and that that is all right. There is no right side/wrong side just differences of opinion.

We shouldn’t denigrate someone for their opinion, just accept that people are different and think differently. Accept a good strong discussion but remember that there are many sides. That’s why there are more than just chocolate and vanilla ice cream!

That’s my hope. I just don’t know if humanity is up to the challenge.


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[TheProfessor]

Reading the posts over the last month or so especially recently during the Covid 19 pandemic this forum has taken on so much bitterness

I view/see/hear the same outside in public. Before the COVID-19.
Somehow, even if talking about the weather.
Those/They will throw in a sentence about Obama or Trump. Either side.
But mostly one side.

On the forum.
Some can/will provide a nice constructive posting. Detailed about some subject concerning the Lakes Region.
BUT
They can't help themselves. Have to throw in one sentence about political.
Then the next poster "corrects" the political sentence. Then another poster will again "correct" the correction. Ad infinitum. Destroying the original informative constructive posting.

And then the nice informative post takes a tangent into sly disruptive politics.

These/they/them can't help themselves.
This US against THEM mentality is imbedded into their daily interactions.
Almost all encompassing. Almost all consuming. Almost consuming their psyche.
For a few/some.

They can't seem to help themselves.
They just can't seem to help themselves.

[gillygirl]

You know it’s bad when people can’t be nice on a post regarding a Winnipesaukee mask. I’m trying my best now to ignore those who make things contentious.


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

I view/see/hear the same outside in public. Before the COVID-19.
Somehow, even if talking about the weather.
Those/They will throw in a sentence about Obama or Trump. Either side.
But mostly one side.

On the forum.
Some can/will provide a nice constructive posting. Detailed about some subject concerning the Lakes Region.
BUT
They can't help themselves. Have to throw in one sentence about political.
Then the next poster "corrects" the political sentence. Then another poster will again "correct" the correction. Ad infinitum. Destroying the original informative constructive posting.



And then the nice informative post takes a tangent into sly disruptive politics.

These/they/them can't help themselves.
This US against THEM mentality is imbedded into their daily interactions.
Almost all encompassing. Almost all consuming. Almost consuming their psyche.
For a few/some.

They can't seem to help themselves.
They just can't seem to help themselves.

Professor, much of what you say is true, and......who am I to argue with a professor? I would probably change the last two sentences to read “We can’t seem to help ourselves” and “We just can’t seem to help ourselves.” To varying degrees, we are all culpable. JMO

[The Real BigGuy]

Sue - I have to agree with you. “We have seen the problem & it is us”

The other thing we need to remember is that the perceived tone of a post is not necessarily the tone in which it was written. We read things thru the lens of our own biases. I may post something I believe is neutral and others read it as a negative or harsh criticism. (That’s why I stopped using intra-office e-mail and texts years ago. I started to just walk down the hall.). We also have a tendency to attack in our response when we perceive we are threatened, which makes matters worse.

Nowadays it appears that only people on the same side of an issue will concede to each other that they both may have valid points. The gray is gone and only black and white survive. Sad!


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[SailinAway]

There is no right side/wrong side just differences of opinion. . . . We shouldn’t denigrate someone for their opinion, just accept that people are different and think differently.

I'm afraid I can't agree with this. It's a utopian "play nice in the sandbox" wish that doesn't hold up in many times and places. There are some actions of individuals and governments---what they do and what they say---that violate basic principles of human decency, democracy, justice, truthfulness, etc. I think we have a responsibility to call out those behaviors. History is full of examples of when people failed to speak up and atrocities occurred, as in the Holocaust. In the Holocaust, in the Cambodian genocide, in so many other atrocities, there absolutely was a right side and a wrong side, not merely a difference of opinion. My personal belief is that we are now in such a time with respect to issues like COVID-19, the climate crisis, and the distribution of wealth. Who are you going to respect and who are you going to choose to be---the person who says nothing when things are clearly wrong, the person who has a loud, aggressive opinion but is unwilling to get the facts before forming it, or the person who states a firm opinion based on a long search for values and facts? I'd like to be in the third camp.

[The Real BigGuy]

Are you comparing the statements on the forum to the Holocaust & genocide? Lord, I hope not!


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[Major]

I'm afraid I can't agree with this. It's a utopian "play nice in the sandbox" wish that doesn't hold up in many times and places. There are some actions of individuals and governments---what they do and what they say---that violate basic principles of human decency, democracy, justice, truthfulness, etc. I think we have a responsibility to call out those behaviors. History is full of examples of when people failed to speak up and atrocities occurred, as in the Holocaust. In the Holocaust, in the Cambodian genocide, in so many other atrocities, there absolutely was a right side and a wrong side, not merely a difference of opinion. My personal belief is that we are now in such a time with respect to issues like COVID-19, the climate crisis, and the distribution of wealth. Who are you going to respect and who are you going to choose to be---the person who says nothing when things are clearly wrong, the person who has a loud, aggressive opinion but is unwilling to get the facts before forming it, or the person who states a firm opinion based on a long search for values and facts? I'd like to be in the third camp.

It's well documented that I think the Chinese coronavirus (Wuhan Bat Flu) is a media- and social media-driven crisis, that so-called (manmade) climate change has no basis in fact or science, or that wealth distribution is a liberal theory designed to take money from successful people and give it to less successful people. I'm curious, am I on the right side or wrong side?

I do agree with RBG, I hope you are not comparing comments on this Forum to historic atrocities!

[Garcia]

It's well documented that I think the Chinese coronavirus (Wuhan Bat Flu) is a media- and social media-driven crisis, that so-called (manmade) climate change has no basis in fact or science, or that wealth distribution is a liberal theory designed to take money from successful people and give it to less successful people. I'm curious, am I on the right side or wrong side?

I do agree with RBG, I hope you are not comparing comments on this Forum to historic atrocities!

Definitely the wrong side:)

But did you need to ask?:laugh:

In all seriousness, is anyone going to change his or her opinion based on input from a forum like this? I enjoy reading it, like learning about all things Winnipesaukee, and have taken the advice of the strangers who have answered my questions about property maintenance and fishing. I look forward to the day when we can go back to debating what no wake means!

[Major]

Definitely the wrong side:)

But did you need to ask?:laugh:

I need to know these things! I didn't realize life was so binary! :laugh:

[Puck]

I need to know these things! I didn't realize life was so binary! :laugh:

Major, I don't know you. You are not an important factor in my life and thus I don't care about your opinions enough to like or dislike you. But I will say this, the impression that I have of you based on your own words here on this forum, is that you are one of the most binary personalities here. No judgement, just an observation.

[WinterHarborGuy]

I get that people are scared, angry and confused...but a few have lost their damn minds lately. :)

So we bought a house in Wolfeboro on December 27, 2019. My wife and I are from Westchester county in New York and we work from home. We have been in our new house for about 100 days. I would guess that 90 of those days we have been in New Hampshire, 10 in New York. When the virus thing started we decided to get out of New York, and we have now been here two months.

We love it here and have come here for 30 years. By this time next year, I will be a resident here.

For the moment my car has an orange New York license plate.

But I’m really tired of people seeing my New York license plate and giving me the finger. In fact, this afternoon when I went to the Wolfeboro dump, a guy swerved across the centerline 2x toward my car as he approached me with his pick up truck and flipped me off with both hands. It’s not the first time I’ve been flipped off because of my license plate, but vehicular assault is a new angle.

My wife was followed last week closely by someone and they only left when she turned down our street. Really?

So I guess I’m rambling but forums can lose their character when people who are bold behind their keyboard start to poison things. Same thing for clowns behind the wheel. These kinds of people are cowards and they wouldn’t do these things if they were sitting across from you. Such is our world today.

I hope to be a contributor here. Don’t judge me by a 6x12 inch metal plate on my car.

:liplick:

[thinkxingu]

I get that people are scared, angry and confused...but a few have lost their damn minds lately. :)

So we bought a house in Wolfeboro on December 27, 2019. My wife and I are from Westchester county in New York and we work from home. We have been in our new house for about 100 days. I would guess that 90 of those days we have been in New Hampshire, 10 in New York. When the virus thing started we decided to get out of New York, and we have now been here two months.

We love it here and have come here for 30 years. By this time next year, I will be a resident here.

For the moment my car has an orange New York license plate.

But I’m really tired of people seeing my New York license plate and giving me the finger. In fact, this afternoon when I went to the Wolfeboro dump, a guy swerved across the centerline 2x toward my car as he approached me with his pick up truck and flipped me off with both hands. It’s not the first time I’ve been flipped off because of my license plate, but vehicular assault is a new angle.

My wife was followed last week closely by someone and they only left when she turned down our street. Really?

So I guess I’m rambling but forums can lose their character when people who are bold behind their keyboard start to poison things. Same thing for clowns behind the wheel. These kinds of people are cowards and they wouldn’t do these things if they were sitting across from you. Such is our world today.

I hope to be a contributor here. Don’t judge me by a 6x12 inch metal plate on my car.

:liplick:WHG, welcome to the forum, and welcome to NH. I'm sorry that you've had these experiences and hope things are otherwise going well for you.

I look forward to what you add to the forum. Cheers[emoji482]

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[VitaBene]

I get that people are scared, angry and confused...but a few have lost their damn minds lately. :)

So we bought a house in Wolfeboro on December 27, 2019. My wife and I are from Westchester county in New York and we work from home. We have been in our new house for about 100 days. I would guess that 90 of those days we have been in New Hampshire, 10 in New York. When the virus thing started we decided to get out of New York, and we have now been here two months.

We love it here and have come here for 30 years. By this time next year, I will be a resident here.

For the moment my car has an orange New York license plate.

But I’m really tired of people seeing my New York license plate and giving me the finger. In fact, this afternoon when I went to the Wolfeboro dump, a guy swerved across the centerline 2x toward my car as he approached me with his pick up truck and flipped me off with both hands. It’s not the first time I’ve been flipped off because of my license plate, but vehicular assault is a new angle.

My wife was followed last week closely by someone and they only left when she turned down our street. Really?

So I guess I’m rambling but forums can lose their character when people who are bold behind their keyboard start to poison things. Same thing for clowns behind the wheel. These kinds of people are cowards and they wouldn’t do these things if they were sitting across from you. Such is our world today.

I hope to be a contributor here. Don’t judge me by a 6x12 inch metal plate on my car.

:liplick:

Welcome, and don't let the bastids get you down!!

[tis]

I don't understand why people are being so nasty. I guess they are afraid. But why couldn't somebody come here from elsewhere and catch it here? I know the incidence is low here but they don't know that you don't come from a low incidence area either. They also don't know that you didn't come with your food and quarantine yourself for two weeks before going out. I am sorry people draw conclusions. If you own a house here, which you do WHG you have every right to come and not be harassed as long as you followed the rules.

[Slickcraft]

Welcome to the Forum WHG

Alan

[luckypete]

Reading the posts over the last month or so especially recently during the Covid 19 pandemic this forum has taken on so much bitterness that it is not helping the cause to survive this epidemic. People want to hear hope not digging into each other. My wife got off this forum last year because she noticed it was starting to get gun slinging attitude. I told her you should see it now.

Come on folks let's help each other. Many need help! Perhaps even some on this form may need help. Let's reach out and ask if there is anything we can do to help you. What can we do to help? NO need to turn it in to political negative debate.

Well said Chasedawg, well said. The upside of reading all the negative commentary and personal attacks is I have recently discovered and now utilize the ignore feature. It works well and I am no longer exposed to individuals who view every topic via their own personal political lens. Now when I log in and peruse the forum looking for fishing advice or gas prices around the lake or viewing some great old photos, that's what I get. I no longer have to wade through the confused and hate filled ramblings of a few members. Now I can read and see what interests me about the lake. So, to all I say, use the ignore feature and set yourself free from the noise and get ready for a fun filled season of sun and fun!

[WinterHarborGuy]

I don't understand why people are being so nasty. I guess they are afraid. But why couldn't somebody come here from elsewhere and catch it here? I know the incidence is low here but they don't know that you don't come from a low incidence area either. They also don't know that you didn't come with your food and quarantine yourself for two weeks before going out. I am sorry people draw conclusions. If you own a house here, which you do WHG you have every right to come and not be harassed as long as you followed the rules.

Nice thoughts.

A few things, I get people being concerned about each other‘s behavior or maybe where those people have been. But nastiness is a whole other thing without any evidence.

My wife told me that she read on Facebook that a woman from Massachusetts got her windshield broken and she is only here to be a nurse at Huggins.

As for us, as soon as we got here we made sure we stayed home for 14 days, as that was the guidance at the time. We have been here since March 9 or 10th. But how do you know from looking at someone’s license plate anything about them? Sure, they could’ve just driven in and be a person with a fever. Or maybe they are me.

Or.... the guy with the NH plate could have a wife who is one of the 1500 or so positive NH residents.

But on an amusing note, I have caught myself looking at a few cars that drive by with Massachusetts plates and thinking, “hey, what is that guys story?”

Then I go, “oh yeah, my car...”

[Major]

Major, I don't know you. You are not an important factor in my life and thus I don't care about your opinions enough to like or dislike you. But I will say this, the impression that I have of you based on your own words here on this forum, is that you are one of the most binary personalities here. No judgement, just an observation.

The difference is that I don't think anyone is WRONG. They have an opinion that is different than mine. That's okay, after all, it's still America, at least for now.

My primary concern with all of this nonsense is how easy as a society we gave up our civil liberties for essentially, let's face it, was a really bad flu season. We tolerate risks of many kinds each and every day of our lives, yet this particular risk was unknown and pounced upon by our media and our social media to create a frenzy. For as many people who got sick and died, we created irreversible harm to millions of millions of Americans who essentially have to press a reset button on their lives when this is over. As data is obtained, we are learning that this virus particularly effected old people and people with preexisting conditions. What we should have done was insulate these people while the rest of us work. However, that decision has been made. We need to now open the economy. I wish our governor had the courage of Georgia's governor.

[Susie Cougar]

Georgia will certainly be a test for the rest of the country.

[gillygirl]

It's well documented that I think the Chinese coronavirus (Wuhan Bat Flu) is a media- and social media-driven crisis, that so-called (manmade) climate change has no basis in fact or science, or that wealth distribution is a liberal theory designed to take money from successful people and give it to less successful people. I'm curious, am I on the right side or wrong side?

I do agree with RBG, I hope you are not comparing comments on this Forum to historic atrocities!

When did Ruth Bader Ginsburg join the forum?


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[Major]

When did Ruth Bader Ginsburg join the forum?


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Real Big Guy!


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[ApS]

The difference is that I don't think anyone is WRONG. They have an opinion that is different than mine. That's okay, after all, it's still America, at least for now.

My primary concern with all of this nonsense is how easy as a society we gave up our civil liberties for essentially, let's face it, was a really bad flu season. We tolerate risks of many kinds each and every day of our lives, yet this particular risk was unknown and pounced upon by our media and our social media to create a frenzy. For as many people who got sick and died, we created irreversible harm to millions of millions of Americans who essentially have to press a reset button on their lives when this is over. As data is obtained, we are learning that this virus particularly effected old people and people with preexisting conditions. What we should have done was insulate these people while the rest of us work. However, that decision has been made. We need to now open the economy. I wish our governor had the courage of Georgia's governor.

I went to bed hoping I wouldn't wake up with the Covid-19 flu. :eek2:

Instead, I woke up after a nightmare—that I'd awakened in Michigan! :eek:

[The Real BigGuy]

How did we go from a thread discussing how we can all be more civil to each other to a discussion of COVID 19 & the economy, and civil rights?


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[SailinAway]

It's well documented that I think the Chinese coronavirus (Wuhan Bat Flu) is a media- and social media-driven crisis, that so-called (manmade) climate change has no basis in fact or science, or that wealth distribution is a liberal theory designed to take money from successful people and give it to less successful people. I'm curious, am I on the right side or wrong side?

I do agree with RBG, I hope you are not comparing comments on this Forum to historic atrocities!

I'm now 100% convinced that you're a troll and you should be removed from this forum.

[Poor Richard]

Quoting the 1st post for a helpful reminder of the nature of this thread.

I get that some folks just cannot help themselves but at what point do we stop and see that we can do a whole lot better?

The irony of the responses in this thread are simply.............par for the course, apparently. :(

Stay classy, Winni Forum!

Reading the posts over the last month or so especially recently during the Covid 19 pandemic this forum has taken on so much bitterness that it is not helping the cause to survive this epidemic. People want to hear hope not digging into each other. My wife got off this forum last year because she noticed it was starting to get gun slinging attitude. I told her you should see it now.

Come on folks let's help each other. Many need help! Perhaps even some on this form may need help. Let's reach out and ask if there is anything we can do to help you. What can we do to help? NO need to turn it in to political negative debate.

[ApS]

I think it's inevitable that the virus crisis leads to bitterness and conflict. This crisis---perhaps any crisis---reveals things that were fundamentally wrong in a society before the crisis. Of course, people don't see those things the same way. For example, not everyone is convinced that all people deserve healthcare, or that it should be affordable (or free). So naturally a health crisis is going to exacerbate that division of social beliefs. Not everyone agrees that all people should have affordable housing. So when there's an economic crisis and people can no longer pay their rent or their mortgage (which were too high before the crisis), there is disagreement about what should be done.

Another fundamental question that shows a deep divide in our country is who we should be concerned about and protect: ourselves, family, strangers we come in contact with, state, nation, continent, or world? Should I have to give up my freedom so someone else is protected? That question caused a vehement argument in this forum.

And of course there's the question of responsibility. If people can't take care of themselves, who should help them? Should my taxes be used to take care of my neighbor, people in other states, people in other countries, small businesses, large corporations? Again, a deep divide.

Politics is not something that stands alone and can be kept separate from the rest of our lives. Politics is a direct reflection of our society, values, and beliefs. Maybe the most important beliefs are about power and wealth---how much power and wealth different kinds of people deserve and what they can't and can't do with it.

In that sense, COVID-19 is a political event, and it's not surprising that people quickly stake out a political position on it. However, your point is still very well taken: we certainly need to come together and help one another and solve this crisis together. (Notice, though, that that statement itself reflects a particular political belief about the unity of society or the world.) My hope is that when it's over, we will be able to look back and see the social causes of the crisis and fix some of the broken things that led to it.
Free healthcare? Rents too high? Social causes? Unity of the world? Wealth that the people deserve? Affordable housing? Things that were fundamentally wrong with our society? :eek2:

Has Karl Marx joined the forum from the grave?

You may wonder why those of us who have taken an oath to defend this Republic--who've served in uniform--who defend the primacy of citizenship, attack fraud at the ballot box, and view a lawfully-elected President assaulted in multiple waves are now considered the "outliers" among our US population...

And now "banned" for one's views? :eek:

All speaks poorly of a generation who've been educated to lose the freedoms guaranteed us in the U.S. Constitution.
:fire:

[granitebox]

APS - please don't assume you can speak for other who wore the uniform....

[SailinAway]

All speaks poorly of a generation who've been educated to lose the freedoms guaranteed us in the U.S. Constitution.
:fire:

Here's the problem: large masses of people in this country do not have the rights and freedoms guaranteed to us in the U.S. Constitution. In fact our history has been marked by very long battles to extend those freedoms to each group of people, and this is far from finished.

[Major]

I'm now 100% convinced that you're a troll and you should be removed from this forum.


Well, aren’t you special. Thankfully you are not the moderator. I don’t know him but I think Don does a great job ferreting out the trolls.

I am committed to everything I say, and welcome debate on any subject. You want to silence me. That’s okay, I’m used to it. Some liberals, like you, want to silence diversity of thought and opinion.

I don’t know you nor do I want to, but I wonder if you were raised in New Hampshire? I was raised with conservative values, that no one owed you a thing, that you had to be self reliant, that looking for government help was a sign of weakness and should be avoided at all costs. My grandparents were poor, raised in the Great Depression. My dad was a house painter and my mom a hair dresser. My parents were phenomenally hard workers and got ahead in life by working harder than others. These values were passed on to me and my brothers.

At one time, most of America shared the same value system whether Democrats or Republicans. That has changed. Like you, our country has embraced a globalists’ view. We don’t believe in self reliance and American exceptionalism. We want to replace our constitutional system with an all powerful government who dictates what we can and cannot do. We adopt feel good governmental policies like social distancing, climate change and social justice and simultaneously erode our rights under the constitution.

Anyway, I am honored that you want to kick me off the Forum.


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[Hillcountry]

Well, aren’t you special. Thankfully you are not the moderator. I don’t know him but I think Don does a great job ferreting out the trolls.

I am committed to everything I say, and welcome debate on any subject. You want to silence me. That’s okay, I’m used to it. Some liberals, like you, want to silence diversity of thought and opinion.

I don’t know you nor do I want to, but I wonder if you were raised in New Hampshire? I was raised with conservative values, that no one owed you a thing, that you had to be self reliant, that looking for government help was a sign of weakness and should be avoided at all costs. My grandparents were poor, raised in the Great Depression. My dad was a house painter and my mom a hair dresser. My parents were phenomenally hard workers and got ahead in life by working harder than others. These values were passed on to me and my brothers.

At one time, most of America shared the same value system whether Democrats or Republicans. That has changed. Like you, our country has embraced a globalists’ view. We don’t believe in self reliance and American exceptionalism. We want to replace our constitutional system with an all powerful government who dictates what we can and cannot do. We adopt feel good governmental policies like social distancing, climate change and social justice and simultaneously erode our rights under the constitution.

Anyway, I am honored that you want to kick me off the Forum.


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As the young'ns say....BOOM! ;)

[Seaplane Pilot]

Here's the problem: large masses of people in this country do not have the rights and freedoms guaranteed to us in the U.S. Constitution. In fact our history has been marked by very long battles to extend those freedoms to each group of people, and this is far from finished.

Please explain who these “large masses of people” are to whom you refer. I have an idea, but want to hear it from you.

[tis]

Major, one thing you forgot was our parents and grandparents had too much PRIDE to accept handouts.

[Major]

Major, one thing you forgot was our parents and grandparents had too much PRIDE to accept handouts.


So true!


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[BoatHouse]

Here's the problem: large masses of people in this country do not have the rights and freedoms guaranteed to us in the U.S. Constitution. In fact our history has been marked by very long battles to extend those freedoms to each group of people, and this is far from finished.



Then they should go where they do have rights or back where they came from. Ba-bye


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[FlyingScot]

Well, aren’t you special. Thankfully you are not the moderator. I don’t know him but I think Don does a great job ferreting out the trolls.

I am committed to everything I say, and welcome debate on any subject. You want to silence me. That’s okay, I’m used to it. Some liberals, like you, want to silence diversity of thought and opinion.

I don’t know you nor do I want to, but I wonder if you were raised in New Hampshire? I was raised with conservative values, that no one owed you a thing, that you had to be self reliant, that looking for government help was a sign of weakness and should be avoided at all costs. My grandparents were poor, raised in the Great Depression. My dad was a house painter and my mom a hair dresser. My parents were phenomenally hard workers and got ahead in life by working harder than others. These values were passed on to me and my brothers.

At one time, most of America shared the same value system whether Democrats or Republicans. That has changed. Like you, our country has embraced a globalists’ view. We don’t believe in self reliance and American exceptionalism. We want to replace our constitutional system with an all powerful government who dictates what we can and cannot do. We adopt feel good governmental policies like social distancing, climate change and social justice and simultaneously erode our rights under the constitution.

Anyway, I am honored that you want to kick me off the Forum.


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Thank you for articulating these mostly noble sentiments, even if we disagree. I must say though that I continue to be perplexed that a person who would write this or "thank" the post would also align himself with Donald Trump. Isn't American Exceptionalism--the idea that we have something unique to offer the world--a globalist view? Isn't MAGA a feel good policy/mantra? Hasn't the President pushed consistently for social distancing over the past month, even criticizing the Georgia Governor you extolled yesterday?

[Major]

Flying, I disagree that American exceptionalism is a globalist view. I think of American exceptionalism as being consistent with the qualities I espoused above.

Regarding our President, I am a conservative. He is by far the most conservative President in my lifetime. I certainly disagree with some of his policies. For example, if he had an opportunity for a do over, I think he would not have shut down our economy, especially knowing what he knows now. However just because I love him doesn’t mean that sometimes I don’t disagree. I love the fact that he is not a politician and indebted to the deep state.


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[Glendale Deli Boy]

And another thread down the tubes ...

Ironic given the original message in the thread lamented that everything on the forum ended in negative political debate.

Some frequent posters just can’t help themselves from firebombing any and all threads. Sad.