Back to business by Easter

[SailinAway]

Easter is 17 days from now.

Trump says he wants the nation "opened up and just raring to go by Easter" because Easter is "a beautiful time. A beautiful timeline."

The CDC says, "The United States nationally is in the INITIATION phase of the pandemic." That means we're not at the end; we're at the beginning of this crisis.

Anthony Fauci: "“I cannot see that all of a sudden, next week or two weeks from now it's going to be over. I don't think there's a chance of that."

Report from 8 infectious-disease modeling researchers, University of Massachusetts Amherst: "Only 12% of all coronavirus cases (including asymptomatic ones) had been reported in the US as of March 15. . . .The average of the researchers' predictions suggests that the virus could kill around 195,000 people in the US by the end of the year." Other experts predict over 2 million deaths in the US if more decisive action is not taken now.

Questions:

(1) Does Trump have the constitutional power to do something irrational, like ordering businesses to reopen, that will lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths?

(2) Whether he has the legal power or not, will anyone step in to stop him?

These questions may sound political, but essentially they're about our survival. Regardless of political leanings, a leader who does not understand or accept the scientific facts about a pandemic and does not listen to experts is himself a major threat to the survival of the nation and world.

At this point our food sources are apparently secure. When COVID-19 strikes thousands of people involved in the production and distribution of food, our food sources will no longer be secure---they will either dwindle or they will be infected, or both. Civil unrest will follow because people who don't have food do desperate things. This is what will happen if virus carriers return to work by Easter. The economy will be harmed far more than it is now.

Coronavirus poll results:

56% of Americans don't believe COVID-19 is a real threat (March 17).
Half of Americans believe Trump is doing a good job managing the crisis.


Those polls mean that one-half of your neighbors are not going to be motivated to use social distancing, self-isolate if they're sick, or follow public health directives that limit the freedoms they're accustomed to. They also will not be motivated to demand rational countermeasures from their local, state, and federal authorities.

This crisis is about two things: science (facts) and human behavior. The science and facts are what they are. Human behavior is influenceable only to a certain extent. When people are driven by beliefs and emotions, and those are not based on science and facts, the outcome is going to be grim. When a leader's decisions are not based on science and facts, and he models actions that are not based on facts, the outcome is going to be grim.

Is COVID-19 not yet at your personal doorstep? It will be soon. One of my friends has it right now. Another friend died 10 days ago because he couldn't get proper medical care for another illness because the hospital in his area was overwhelmed by COVID-19. If you have a heart attack and your local hospital is dealing with an onslaught of COVID-19 cases, you might not get care. You think that big red dot around New York City on the COVID-19 map isn't going to expand into New Hampshire? It already is.

The nation "opened up and just raring to go by Easter"? This is magical thinking that threatens all of us, no matter what your personal politics are.

[Hillcountry]

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.
Spare us with the doom and gloom crap.

[gwhite13]

My soon to be sacrificed mother-in-law, for the economy, always said never trust a man that dyes his (or someone elses) hair platinum blonde and paints his face basketball orange. LOL

[Seaplane Pilot]

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.
Spare us with the doom and gloom crap.

The “Thanks” button isn’t enough. THANK YOU for your post, Hill.

[FlyingScot]

Well, I guess we'll know for sure in just a couple of weeks whether SailinAway or our President is the more reliable forecaster....Or maybe it's a couple of weeks after that?

Let's hope it's the President, but let's not pretend that he's a better bet than Dr Fauci and the rest of the medical establishment

[Newbiesaukee]

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.
Spare us with the doom and gloom crap.

The words themselves would be calming and encouraging coming from a reliable source. BUT how can anyone but a dolt really be encouraged when everyone, including many of his supporters, recognize that he is not a reliable source? Usually, his supporters recognize his difficulty with the truth by commenting “he really didn’t mean that” or “ you know how he is.” His words just are not credible enough to really be hopeful.

[Major]

The words themselves would be calming and encouraging coming from a reliable source. BUT how can anyone but a dolt really be encouraged when everyone, including many of his supporters, recognize that he is not a reliable source? Usually, his supporters recognize his difficulty with the truth by commenting “he really didn’t mean that” or “ you know how he is.” His words just are not credible enough to really be hopeful.


Well I guess I’m that dolt. We need to get the economy going. I believe these government hacks as much as I believe the climate alarmists. We need to get people back to work. This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


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[winterh]

My sympathies go out to those who have contracted TDS. Trump Derangement Syndrome. Much worse for this country than the China Virus. It rots the brain and makes one unable to think clearly. We are lucky that with quarantine from the main stream media and an openness to new ideas it can be cured. Good luck

[birchhaven]

I would suggest everyone watch the actual press conferences and always go to the source of data rather than the news. In this day in age the actual source and date it is available to everyone. The news has become something else. If you watch the press conference he was very clear that he didn't mean the entire country, he was optimistic if an area is uneffected/undercontrol and measures can be taken to ensure that. Then it should have the requirements eased. He certainly was not saying NYC is going to be open for business or the entire country.

[SailinAway]

. . . always go to the source of data .

Can you point us to the data that shows that it will be safe to reopen businesses in 17 days?

California and New York---two of the country's main economic engines---are under assault from the virus. Hotspots around Detroit and Chicago were identified today.

[fatlazyless]

Regular gasoline is 1.599/gal at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, close to Little Squam Lake. Filled up the tank for about $16 and there was just two other cars there. Was pretty quiet for a low price like that ...... 1.599/gal for no name gas.

For my econo-box car with the hit & run, side crush ..... gas is gas is gas ..... and all that matters is the price.

[Newbiesaukee]

I would suggest everyone watch the actual press conferences and always go to the source of data rather than the news. In this day in age the actual source and date it is available to everyone. The news has become something else. If you watch the press conference he was very clear that he didn't mean the entire country, he was optimistic if an area is uneffected/undercontrol and measures can be taken to ensure that. Then it should have the requirements eased. He certainly was not saying NYC is going to be open for business or the entire country.

I have watched almost all of the press conferences including that one. It is very difficult at times to understand exactly what he is saying. I did not say that he claimed NYC would be open for business. I read both CNN and Fox News. In fact, rather than believing he meant the whole country, he seemed to vaguely be referring to certain areas and that was also the gist of today’s news conference.

[TiltonBB]

Can you point us to the data that shows that it will be safe to reopen businesses in 17 days?

California and New York---two of the country's main economic engines---are under assault from the virus. Hotspots around Detroit and Chicago were identified today.

Hmmmm..............It is interesting that the virus hot spots also seem to be Sanctuary Cities? Hmmmm.............

[birchhaven]

I don't think the data is complete so I am not gonna draw a conclusion. I did find it interesting that the virus was probably here for weeks/months being diagnosed as the "regular" flu and that it took ER visits for it to be properly diagnosed. I am not saying you are wrong for being upset. This is terrible. Maybe misdirected maybe not. But don't get your news from Fox or CNN. Don't even watch them. Everything is an editorial, opinion, hot take, not news. We now can see real news straight from the source go find it. That is what the internet is for. Why it is powerful. Why some nations censor it.

I think the inability to test and how some don't show symptoms is why this is so dangerous and why it is so much more wide spread than the data shows.

This site is not accurate but best I have found https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Look at other nations data they reported and then look at Chinas definitely does not follow same trend. Just saying 🐠

[coolyourjets]

Well I guess I’m that dolt. We need to get the economy going. I believe these government hacks as much as I believe the climate alarmists. We need to get people back to work. This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


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At least you have a sense of self awareness. Anyway, here is a quote from one of your puppet masters, the #3 ranking republican in the house

There will be no normally functioning economy if our hospitals are overwhelmed and thousands of Americans of all ages, including our doctors and nurses, lay dying because we have failed to do what’s necessary to stop the virus.


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[4 for Boating]

When H1N1 hit the US in 2009, I think it was over 6 months and 1,000 people dead before Obama declared a national health emergency. Estimates put the total deaths in the US at over 13,000 with those going to the hospital around 275,000 and those suspected to have contracted it around 60 Million.

Can’t recall him ever telling people to distance themselves for 14 days or close borders to try to slow it down like Trump did. No one seem to critical of his actions back then.

This "seems" like a more contagious strain but if we are talking about the differences in how presidents responded to saves lives, does not even seem close. We can argue about not wanting Trump steering this ship but at least someone has his/her hands on the wheel this time.

Just saying…

[fatlazyless]

Apparently, this year's Monday, April 13 Easter egg roll on the White House lawn has been cancelled ..... www.whitehouse.gov/eastereggroll/ ..... that's always a fun event where the White House lawn is open to the public via an admission lottery held from Feb 18-24 .... it is not happening this year.

Better to be safe, than sorry.

It would have been the 142nd Easter egg roll held by the White House. (from the link above)

[jeffk]

Stupid, waste of time, political thread.

[Top-Water]

Stupid, waste of time, political thread.

Ditto ...... :(

[fatlazyless]

Paying $1.59 for gas at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, which has spaces for about six cars at six pumps is something like the lowest price in years, maybe since 2001.

About three years ago, the two Rt 93-Exit 25 stations were at 1.92, and that seemed very low after paying 3.99, the year earlier.

$1.599 for no name gas is low-low-low ..... and my car runs perfectly fine with it, as always, going close now to 200,000 miles on the 'riginal four spark plugs ..... a 2013 Scion xB with a 5-speed stick.

..... driv'n that golden road ..... to that Golden Pond store ..... for some low-priced, golden gasoline ..... in that 5th golden gear ..... is so totally golden!

[Biggd]

This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou should have put the word "financial" in front of children since that seams to be all you care about. :(

[gillygirl]

When H1N1 hit the US in 2009, I think it was over 6 months and 1,000 people dead before Obama declared a national health emergency. Estimates put the total deaths in the US at over 13,000 with those going to the hospital around 275,000 and those suspected to have contracted it around 60 Million.

Can’t recall him ever telling people to distance themselves for 14 days or close borders to try to slow it down like Trump did. No one seem to critical of his actions back then.

This "seems" like a more contagious strain but if we are talking about the differences in how presidents responded to saves lives, does not even seem close. We can argue about not wanting Trump steering this ship but at least someone has his/her hands on the wheel this time.

Just saying…

Please read before you think.

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-pandemic-vs-swine-flu.html


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[Hillcountry]

You should have put the word "financial" in front of children since that seams to be all you care about. :(

Hmmm...sounds very familiar to what schifty pencil necked schiff did during the weak and twisted attempt to bring our president down by impeachment. He delivered a diatribe that put words in our President’s mouth that were never remotely, uttered. Surely a democrat trait?

[Not to Worry]

Hmmm...sounds very familiar to what schifty pencil necked schiff did during the weak and twisted attempt to bring our president down by impeachment. He delivered a diatribe that put words in our President’s mouth that were never remotely, uttered. Surely a democrat trait?

We are all in this together and democrats and republicans are doing the best they can under the circumstances and their differing views. Without question people who are forum members will die from the virus...so maybe stop the name calling and bring back civil discourse.

[fatlazyless]

If you want to get a close-up look at people in Bergamo, Italy in hospitals really suffering from the Covid-19 virus ...... you can google ....... 'We take the dead from morning to night' ....... to see a March 27, NY Times photo-report without having a paid subscription and it has a lot of photos.

Is a real eye opener, and deepest, deepest sympathy for these suffering people in Italy .... it is truly terrible.

So, every morning when you first wake up, do you check your throat to confirm that it is working as it should? Is the throat still good?

Ok, so yesterday-middle of the day, about 1-pm, I'm in the Meredith Hannaford frozen food aisle looking at Marie Callender items, and one of the Hannaford employees, a guy, gives me an unusual, extra hard stare at me, couldn't figure that out at the time, and now I'm thinking I was too close ..... and was probably five feet away at the time while opening the freezer door.

You know, you think to yourself ...... like, what is going on here, did I just do something wrong?

[Hillcountry]

We are all in this together and democrats and republicans are doing the best they can under the circumstances and their differing views. Without question people who are forum members will die from the virus...so maybe stop the name calling and bring back civil discourse.

Ya right...every time I look at the list that Pelosi and Schumer are trying to push through with a stimulus bill...ya sure...the democrats want to help themselves to a big juicy peach of bill that has nothing to do with combating the Chinese virus nor helping us “get together”
Just more of the swamp sludge sloshing around the capitol while the little guy is going down the toilet.

[Not to Worry]

Ya right...every time I look at the list that Pelosi and Schumer are trying to push through with a stimulus bill...ya sure...the democrats want to help themselves to a big juicy peach of bill that has nothing to do with combating the Chinese virus nor helping us “get together”
Just more of the swamp sludge sloshing around the capitol while the little guy is going down the toilet.

Maybe you are more educated than I on the difference between the sides. I know the Democrats do not want any aid going to Trump's business nor do they want to give away money to the cruise ships that are not registered in the USA and therefore do not pay taxes. So, why not educate us on what you see as not combatting Covid-19.

As for the little guy going down the toilet maybe you can articulate that as well?

[ishoot308]

Maybe you are more educated than I on the difference between the sides. I know the Democrats do not want any aid going to Trump's business nor do they want to give away money to the cruise ships that are not registered in the USA and therefore do not pay taxes. So, why not educate us on what you see as not combatting Covid-19.

As for the little guy going down the toilet maybe you can articulate that as well?

Not answering for Hill but the fact is they are trying to push through 11 billion for the funding for the African Development Fund (ADF), the African Development Bank (AfDB) and the International Development Association (IDA).

Do you really think this is a time to "donate" that kind of money to foreign countries where so many of our own are out of a job or are going to be out of a job?

What does the Kennedy Center have to do with this pandemic??...and there are many many other special interests trying to be added or have been added to this bill!

Honestly can you tell me why on earth the bill should include ANYTHING but relief efforts for US citizens due to the Covid19 virus?...and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??

Dan

[Not to Worry]

Not answering for Hill but the fact is they are trying to push through 11 billion for the funding for the African Development Fund (ADF), the African Development Bank (AfDB) and the International Development Association (IDA).

Do you really think this is a time to "donate" that kind of money to foreign countries where so many of our own are out of a job or are going to be out of a job?

What does the Kennedy Center have to do with this pandemic??...and there are many many other special interests trying to be added or have been added to this bill!

Honestly can you tell me why on earth the bill should include ANYTHING but relief efforts for US citizens due to the Covid19 virus?...and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??

Dan

So, I did a quick google search and found something from FOX...who I sure many of the thanks come from loyal viewers. Here is what I found. BTW if you watched Trump he on TV endorsed supporting the Kennedy Center.

"[T]o put it bluntly, the United States will not be safe from this pandemic until the world is safe from this pandemic—without widespread access to a vaccine or countermeasures, cases rebound quickly when quarantines are lifted as has been shown in Singapore and Hong Kong this week," read a letter the CGD sent to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., last week.

The funding for these three international organizations was not an 11th-hour addition; it was included in the original Republican version of the coronavirus bill."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-relief-package-contains-over-11-billion-international-development

[Flylady]

Interesting read......some people contribute facts with references and others provide statements without contect or research.

H1N1: Did you know that at the outbreak it was concluded and later proven that the majority of the US and European population already had immunities due to the flu in 1960?

The relief package is an attempt to provide employers with money to continue to pay their employees even though the company is not taking in any revenue. Non profits such as the Kennedy Center, Smithsonian, and so many others employ thousands of people. The grants are being provided so that they can continue to pay employees.

Perhaps we should not be so quick to just take sound bites and react? Afterall, those that post the oneliner sound bites that are designed to anger and divide have a bigger objective than just your sound mind and health.

[ishoot308]

So, I did a quick google search and found something from FOX...who I sure many of the thanks come from loyal viewers. Here is what I found. BTW if you watched Trump he on TV endorsed supporting the Kennedy Center.

"[T]o put it bluntly, the United States will not be safe from this pandemic until the world is safe from this pandemic—without widespread access to a vaccine or countermeasures, cases rebound quickly when quarantines are lifted as has been shown in Singapore and Hong Kong this week," read a letter the CGD sent to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., last week.

The funding for these three international organizations was not an 11th-hour addition; it was included in the original Republican version of the coronavirus bill."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-relief-package-contains-over-11-billion-international-development

And what is it you didn't understand about my post when I said..."and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??"

Do you really believe only the republicans are adding the "pork" to this bill?...Do you really believe "your side" has clean hands in all this?? Your not that gullible are you??

Let me ask you this...do you or do you not believe that this bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens and nothing else?... yes or no?

Dan

[ishoot308]

Here is one of the best articles I have seen regarding the so called "Stimulus Bill".

It comes from the very left leaning CNN but this journalist put his political partisanship aside to put forth this very true picture of what is occurring in DC in regards to this pork filled bill...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/opinions/congress-stimulus-plan-cut-the-pork-corallo/index.html

Dan

[Descant]

And what is it you didn't understand about my post when I said..."and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??"

Do you really believe only the republicans are adding the "pork" to this bill?...Do you really believe "your side" has clean hands in all this?? Your not that gullible are you??

Let me ask you this...do you or do you not believe that this bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens and nothing else?... yes or no?

Dan
I see many posts here that display a high level of emotion in their position. For those who are presenting facts, you cannot convince the emotional side with facts. Not To Worry took IShoot308's facts and retorted with a Google search that had nothing to do with the earlier response.

From an air traffic controller to a pilot under control: "I have a dog with one blue eye." FACT !

[garysanfran]

Hit the other children with you plastic shovels...

[Not to Worry]

And what is it you didn't understand about my post when I said..."and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??"

Do you really believe only the republicans are adding the "pork" to this bill?...Do you really believe "your side" has clean hands in all this?? Your not that gullible are you??

Let me ask you this...do you or do you not believe that this bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens and nothing else?... yes or no?

Dan

First which side am I on? I think we all know politicians are whores and do what they need to do to stay in office.. Having said that I believe they are doing the best they can in an impossible situation. To get a bill passed and to get it quickly passed had to mean both sides made concessions. I do not believe that there is any way to just isolate the USA so we are bound to look at al manners of aid that can directly and indirectly help us. I personally do not believe Trump is doing a great job...you may disagree or agree...it does not matter. I think what matters is some civility to each other as we all try to get through this. No?

[fatlazyless]

Here is one of the best articles I have seen regarding the so called "Stimulus Bill".

It comes from the very left leaning CNN but this journalist put his political partisanship aside to put forth this very true picture of what is occurring in DC in regards to this pork filled bill... Dan

The journalist is Mark Corallo, a 54-year old Republican who "was the spokesman for Pres Donald Trump's private legal team during the investigation into possible collusion between members of Trump's 2016 campaign and the Russian Government." ...... Wikipedia - Mark Corallo ...... :eek2:


......he must have wandered into that CNN building thinking it was FoxNews, sat down and started writing ........ ???

[ishoot308]

The journalist is Mark Corallo, a 54-year old Republican who "was the spokesman for Pres Donald Trump's private legal team during the investigation into possible collusion between members of Trump's 2016 campaign and the Russian Government." ...... Wikipedia - Mark Corallo ...... :eek2:


......he must have wandered into that CNN building thinking it was FoxNews, sat down and started writing ........ ???

Thanks FLL for a useful and somewhat funny post! :eek:

I honestly didn't know he was a republican. I just assumed (my first mistake) that since he was writing for CNN...well you understand.:D

Either way he still wrote a factual, heartfelt and non partisan article on the crap going on in DC regarding the stimulus bill to which I agree fully.

Dan

[Mr. V]

I can understand the government wanting to help its distressed citizens, but why should any money go to corporations?

They don't vote, they can't contract the coronavirus.

Oh, and how in hell is the treasury going to come up with an extra two trillion dollars?

The national deficit mounts and nobody, but nobody, seems to care.

It's almost enough to make me think fondly of Bill Clinton: at least he knew what a balanced budget was.

[rsmlp]

Well I guess I’m that dolt. We need to get the economy going. I believe these government hacks as much as I believe the climate alarmists. We need to get people back to work. This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


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You're right, you are that dolt.

[upthesaukee]

Interesting that the country is supposed to be "back in business" by April 12 th, that's 15 or 16 days from now.

Per John Hopkins University real time website, the US has topped 100, 000. Just before 6pm, we were at 100,717 cases. (On March 22nd, this time of day, around 6pm, we were at 32,600).

Easter is tremendously optimistic, in my humble opinion.

Dave

[Major]

Interesting that the country is supposed to be "back in business" by April 12 th, that's 15 or 16 days from now.

Per John Hopkins University real time website, the US has topped 100, 000. Just before 6pm, we were at 100,717 cases. (On March 22nd, this time of day, around 6pm, we were at 32,600).

Easter is tremendously optimistic, in my humble opinion.

Dave

Is it really? H1N1 had 60,800,000 cases, 274,304 hospitalized persons, and 12,469 deaths. We did not collapse our economy for a far worse epidemic. Overreaction?


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[StevenGilford]

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.


:laugh: good one!

[WinnisquamZ]

Believe he will ask those willing to start opening. Oh course, just as the social isolation is voluntary so won’t the opening be. The big box stores and major chains will open. Small restaurants will with reduced hours and wider seating areas.


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[StevenGilford]

Is it really? H1N1 had 60,800,000 cases, 274,304 hospitalized persons, and 12,469 deaths. We did not collapse our economy for a far worse epidemic. Overreaction?


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H1N1 (your numbers) 0.02% mortality

COVID-19 (as of 27th March) 4.6% mortality (worldwide) 1.5% (US)

"But we're not finding everyone who has COVID-19! Many people will be walking around and not know they have it!"

How much under-reporting makes this not an issue for you? 2x so maybe the mortality rate is only 0.75% (2.5million expected US deaths)? 10x, getting to 0.15% (0.5million expected US deaths)?

Really, just tell us what your number is. Ignore the data, ignore what might or might not be counted. How many potentially preventable US deaths from COVID-19 is acceptable to you to prevent "crashing the economy"?

If your answer is you don't care about the number, that's fine, just have the balls to say it.

[Major]

We don’t have a firm grasp on the denominator. Let’s see where things shake out.


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[WinnisquamZ]

We don’t have a firm grasp on the denominator. Let’s se where things shake out.


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Can’t agree more.


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[StevenGilford]

We don’t have a firm grasp on the denominator. Let’s se where things shake out.


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Surely you must have an opinion, or an approach?

Would you prefer to lift all restrictions immediately until we have a firmer grasp on the lethality? How many tests, positive cases and deaths would be enough for you to consider it worse than H1N1 and worth shutting down the economy to save lives?

[StevenGilford]

Can’t agree more.


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Same question. What are your numbers? Should all restrictions be lifted immediately in your opinion? How do we deal with it when we see how it shakes out and maybe it turns out that millions of Americans will die, and we're now too late to stop it?

[Major]

I would have handled this the same way we handled the much worse H1N1 epidemic. We have completely overreacted.


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[WinnisquamZ]

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter. Then again, if you want to remain home, it is your choose. FYI, my daughter has a PHD from ND in micro biology and I am married to a analytical chemist. I follow their lead when it involves data


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[StevenGilford]

I would have handled this the same way we handled the much worse H1N1 epidemic. We have completely overreacted.


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You say we have overreacted, but when would you react?

You say we have overreacted, would you advocate returning to normal tomorrow?

[StevenGilford]

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter.

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That's great to hear! Please can you share the data and facts that support a "soft open" around Easter?

[Major]

You say we have overreacted, but when would you react?

You say we have overreacted, would you advocate returning to normal tomorrow?

I would have declared a national emergency after 1500 like Obama did with the H1N1. I didn’t agree with him much but I thought he handled the H1N1 expertly. He was the best, right?


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[FlyingScot]

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter. Then again, if you want to remain home, it is your choose. FYI, my daughter has a PHD from ND in micro biology and I am married to a analytical chemist. I follow their lead when it involves data


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Not projections? Your daughter is a microbiologist and she doesn't believe viruses expand or think we can predict the life of an organism?
Better ask her again ;)

[StevenGilford]

I would have declared a national emergency after 1500 like Obama did with the H1N1. I didn’t agree with him much but I thought he handled the H1N1 expertly. He was the best, right?


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We hit 1500 deaths today (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/world/coronavirus-live-news-updates.html)

And this is despite the various State stay-at-home orders, and Trumps perfect 'early action' on shutting down travel from China.

So what's next? You would declare a state of emergency tonight, and then...?

[WinnisquamZ]

This virus is going to be around for years. As many have said the shelter in place allows the medical community to get up to speed and put procedures in place on how to handle the infected. If you think you can avoid it you are more miss informed then you are showing here. If you are allergic to something you take precautions. How is this different?


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[StevenGilford]

I would have declared a national emergency after 1500 like Obama did with the H1N1. I didn’t agree with him much but I thought he handled the H1N1 expertly. He was the best, right?


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Also, Obama's declaration of a National Emergency came after 6 months and over 1000 deaths.

COVID-19 has now killed 1500 in 2 months (and is rising exponentially).

But COVID-19 is not more serious than H1N1?

[StevenGilford]

This virus is going to be around for years. As many have said the shelter in place allows the medical community to get up to speed and put procedures in place on how to handle the infected. If you think you can avoid it you are more miss informed then you are showing here. If you are allergic to something you take precautions. How is this different?


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I'm not sure who you are suggesting said that we can avoid COVID-19, but I don't see that in any responses.

It sounds like you agree that stay at home measures and flattening the curve is important to avoid overwhelming our medical facilities and to give us time to develop vaccines/treatments? So that if/when it resurges, we can deal with it just like the regular flu?

But please can you share the data that shows we can safely "soft open" by Easter?

[WinnisquamZ]

I'm not sure who you are suggesting said that we can avoid COVID-19, but I don't see that in any responses.

It sounds like you agree that stay at home measures and flattening the curve is important to avoid overwhelming our medical facilities and to give us time to develop vaccines/treatments? So that if/when it resurges, we can deal with it just like the regular flu?

But please can you share the data that shows we can safely "soft open" by Easter?

I do enjoy watching the presidents daily press conference. The team of experts inform the country of their progress against this virus and discuss the data available at that time. You should put aside your hatred and listen. Very informative


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[kawishiwi]

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter. Then again, if you want to remain home, it is your choose. FYI, my daughter has a PHD from ND in micro biology and I am married to a analytical chemist. I follow their lead when it involves data


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2 minutes before the Titanic met the ice berg the data & facts were the ship was seaworthy & the passengers safe. That was during a calculated risk to take a northern pass and was a winnable gamble though one that was lost.

This is not that. We have hit the iceberg, the hold is filling with water, the ship is listing into ice-freezing water.

We are going to lose up to 30k, or more, in April alone.

According to your way of thinking if you jumped off a 10 story building you would be thinking the first 9 floors were ok, maybe this will work out.... because why trust projections?

[StevenGilford]

I do enjoy watching the presidents daily press conference. The team of experts inform the country of their progress against this virus and discuss the data available at that time. You should put aside your hatred and listen. Very informative


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I listen every day.

I heard Trump say he thinks we can open by Easter because it's a "beautiful day".

In comparison, Dr Anthony Fauci (the actual expert on the briefing team) says "“You’ve got to be realistic, and you’ve got to understand that you don’t make the timeline, the virus makes the timeline. So you’ve got to respond to what you see happen, and if you keep seeing this acceleration, it doesn’t matter what you say, one week, two weeks, three weeks, you’ve got to go with what the situation on the ground is”

I have not seen any data that suggests that Easter is remotely feasible.

So if you are saying you base your decisions on data, why do you take Trump's word over the actual experts?

I can almost get on board with Major's assertion that Trumps claim is just an aspirational date to inspire calm and confidence. I completely disagree with him, and think Trump is simply delusional and offering up dangerous misinformation. But at least he isn't claiming that the Easter timeline is based on any actual data, or endorsed by experts.

[WinnisquamZ]

2 minutes before the Titanic met the ice berg the data & facts were the ship was seaworthy & the passengers safe. That was during a calculated risk to take a northern pass and was a winnable gamble though one that was lost.

This is not that. We have hit the iceberg, the hold is filling with water, the ship is listing into ice-freezing water.

We are going to lose up to 30k, or more, in April alone.

According to your way of thinking if you jumped off a 10 story building you would be thinking the first 9 floors were ok, maybe this will work out.... because why trust projections?

Wow! That’s a reach. What of the projections made by our military at the time our boys would land at the beaches of Europe? They knew many were not coming home but they still went.


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[4 for Boating]

I guess time will tell what the final numbers show.
Most curves predict this peaking in mid-April but no one seems to know for sure.

To shift gears a bit - it is true slowing the cases // flattening the curve is to allow the medical system in the US to not be overwhelmed.

Vaccine-wise > they say they are working on one (which is great) but that will be very interesting as today we have a lot people that refuse vaccines that have been around for many, many, many years. Here comes one developed in 6 to 10 months and would be brand new. Who wants to be first in line? Going to be very hard to get young people to want that.

[WinnisquamZ]

I guess time will tell what the final numbers show.

Most curves predict this peaking in mid-April but no one seems to know for sure.

To shift gears a bit - it is true slowing the cases // flattening the curve is to allow the medical system in the US to not be overwhelmed.

Vaccine-wise > they say they are working on one (which is great) but that will be very interesting as today we have a lot people that refuse vaccines that have been around for many, many, many years. Here comes one developed in 6 to 10 months and would be brand new. Who wants to be first in line? Going to be very hard to get young people to want that.

Agree. Vaccines won’t be available till the fall hopefully. Until then, those at risk must be careful. But with that said, the country must get back to work


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[StevenGilford]

But with that said, the country must get back to work


...but only when the experts and the data show that it's safe, right?

[WinnisquamZ]

For those looking for “data” here is the latest
15749


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[SailinAway]

Some people contribute facts with references and others provide statements without context or research."

This was the main point of my original post. Uninformed tribal loyalty is what's going to kill us. People won't give up tribal loyalty even when their life is under direct threat. It's more important for them to win an argument and save face than to stay alive.

You can only protect yourself during a pandemic (war, natural disaster, etc.) by having the facts so you can make intelligent decisions. What is the extent of the current threat? Am I safe where I am? Is it safe to go outside? Would I be safer in another state or country? Is the threat currently increasing, decreasing, or staying the same? What do the experts predict is going to happen? What facts do they base their predictions on? What are they advising us to do?

My personal beliefs are far less useful for saving me right now than fact-based expert opinions. There is some divergence among experts, but it's not huge. There is more or less unanimous agreement that the COVID-19 crisis isn't going to be over in the next two weeks, that it's going to last many more weeks or months, that there's a good chance that it will return next season, and that it's unlikely that a vaccine will be ready in time for the next season.

In all the articles I've read that were written by experts (epidemiologists, doctors) or that quoted experts, none has ever mentioned their political affiliation. This is not about winning a political argument; it's about survival. Whether I'm a Democrat or Republican, I want to survive. For that we need the facts and expert opinions based on them.

We have no choice but to rely on experts, especially those who have closely studied the evolution of COVID-19 in other countries and can draw lessons from those countries, such as how China was able to significantly slow the spread of the virus and why Italy is on a disastrous course. There is no need to put blind trust in the experts if that makes you uncomfortable---the facts that they base their predictions and recommendations on are available online. You can either read the original scientific studies directly, or you can read summaries of them in trustworthy apolitical sources. Here's an article that explains the mathematics behind social distancing, for example: https://www.vox.com/2020/3/15/21180342/coronavirus-covid-19-us-social-distancing

The question is whether people want to know the facts and whether they can understand them and make rational decisions based on them. None of those is a given. When this crisis is over it will be seen that ultimately it was human psychological tendencies that turned COVID-19 into a pandemic---the tendency to think that disasters happen to other people or other countries, the tendency to procrastinate, to hold onto beliefs that make us feel better or look better, deliberately concealing information for political reasons (China), our unwillingness to consider positions contrary to our own, and so on.

I'll gladly lose the political argument if it means I'm more likely to survive. Politicizing a virus is foolhardy.

[gillygirl]

Is it really? H1N1 had 60,800,000 cases, 274,304 hospitalized persons, and 12,469 deaths. We did not collapse our economy for a far worse epidemic. Overreaction?


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Sorry, fat finger syndrome... I didn’t mean to thank you. And, your SNR is really, really low.


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[gillygirl]

I would have handled this the same way we handled the much worse H1N1 epidemic. We have completely overreacted.


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I don’t believe you when you say you know math and you know science. It’s impossible to compare a pandemic which is over and one that is ongoing.


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[StevenGilford]

For those looking for “data” here is the latest
15749


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Dated March 27th, stating that Dr Fauci is "backtracking", yet the editorial they are referencing is a month old (https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926089)!

OANN say "Meanwhile, Fauci’s backtracking seemed to give credence to some members of the GOP, who have argued the media is over-sensationalizing how lethal the virus is. It also came after the president hinted he may break with experts, specifically regarding opening the economy back up by Easter."

No, it did not come after the President started talking about opening up at Easter. It came on Feb 28th. It was also speculative that it "may" not be that lethal.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu, even if the mortality rate drops far below the World Health Organization’s current estimate of 3.4%." (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-compared-flu-experts-wrong/story?id=69779116)

I would suggest not relying on OANN for truthfulness.

[WinnisquamZ]

Dated March 27th, stating that Dr Fauci is "backtracking", yet the editorial they are referencing is a month old (https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926089)!

OANN say "Meanwhile, Fauci’s backtracking seemed to give credence to some members of the GOP, who have argued the media is over-sensationalizing how lethal the virus is. It also came after the president hinted he may break with experts, specifically regarding opening the economy back up by Easter."

No, it did not come after the President started talking about opening up at Easter. It came on Feb 28th. It was also speculative that it "may" not be that lethal.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu, even if the mortality rate drops far below the World Health Organization’s current estimate of 3.4%." (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-compared-flu-experts-wrong/story?id=69779116)

I would suggest not relying on OANN for truthfulness.

Did u miss the information published in the New England journal of medicine?


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[kawishiwi]

Wow! That’s a reach. What of the projections made by our military at the time our boys would land at the beaches of Europe? They knew many were not coming home but they still went.


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Not a reach. Its the conservative end of the range.

What exactly is your point about comparing military projections of the invasion of Europe to the track of projected covid deaths. I am sure there was supposed to be a point. I just can't find it.

[coolyourjets]

For those looking for “data” here is the latest
15749


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OAN??? Really??? Please stop. These folks make Fox News look like CNN. If this is where you get your news I suspect you are hoping for an Easter deadline so you can see the Easter Bunny.


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[StevenGilford]

Did u miss the information published in the New England journal of medicine?


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That's the information from an Editorial first published on February 28th.

Here is the PDF (https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?listPDF=true)

It was included in the NEJM on March 26th but it says right in the article "This editorial was published on February 28, 2020, at NEJM.org"

[WinnisquamZ]

Solid discussion tonight. Good night


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[StevenGilford]

Solid discussion tonight. Good night


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Have a good night!

[ApS]

The majority of our workforce is the least affected.

[Major]

The majority of our workforce is the least affected.


And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost -

5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized)
6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured)
150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products
150,000 due to heart disease
20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol
10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange

How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not.


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[StevenGilford]

And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost -

5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized)
6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured)
150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products
150,000 due to heart disease
20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol
10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange

How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not.


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None of those deaths are exponentially rising.

You say we have overreacted but we hit the point that you would react at all yesterday (3 times quicker than H1N1), and that’s despite the measures put in place due to the “overreaction”.

Also despite the “overreaction” every ‘curve’ in the US is still on an upwards trajectory.

[MBNeckguy]

Paying $1.59 for gas at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, which has spaces for about six cars at six pumps is something like the lowest price in years, maybe since 2001.

About three years ago, the two Rt 93-Exit 25 stations were at 1.92, and that seemed very low after paying 3.99, the year earlier.

$1.599 for no name gas is low-low-low ..... and my car runs perfectly fine with it, as always, going close now to 200,000 miles on the 'riginal four spark plugs ..... a 2013 Scion xB with a 5-speed stick.

..... driv'n that golden road ..... to that Golden Pond store ..... for some low-priced, golden gasoline ..... in that 5th golden gear ..... is so totally golden!



15750



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[Seaplane Pilot]

And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost -

5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized)
6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured)
150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products
150,000 due to heart disease
20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol
10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange

How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Major. The liberal fear-mongers hate the facts. All I can picture is the scene from the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch has water dumped on her. “I’m melting, I’m melting”!!! Facts are to liberals, as water was to the witch.

[StevenGilford]

Thanks Major. The liberal fear-mongers hate the facts. All I can picture is the scene from the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch has water dumped on her. “I’m melting, I’m melting”!!! Facts are to liberals, as water was to the witch.

Great point! Check out these Liberal Fear-Mongers at the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html) and their Goddamned expert opinions under-lied with expert reasoning and facts!

“More cases of COVID-19 are likely to be identified in the United States in the coming days, including more instances of community spread. CDC expects that widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States will occur. In the coming months, most of the U.S. population will be exposed to this virus.

Widespread transmission of COVID-19 could translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, and workplaces, may experience more absenteeism. Mass gatherings may be sparsely attended or postponed. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and sectors of the transportation industry may also be affected. Healthcare providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. Nonpharmaceutical interventions will be the most important response strategy to try to delay the spread of the virus and reduce the impact of disease.”

[The Real BigGuy]

First which side am I on? I think we all know politicians are whores and do what they need to do to stay in office.. Having said that I believe they are doing the best they can in an impossible situation. To get a bill passed and to get it quickly passed had to mean both sides made concessions. I do not believe that there is any way to just isolate the USA so we are bound to look at al manners of aid that can directly and indirectly help us. I personally do not believe Trump is doing a great job...you may disagree or agree...it does not matter. I think what matters is some civility to each other as we all try to get through this. No?

[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji122][emoji122]


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[The Real BigGuy]

Thanks FLL for a useful and somewhat funny post! :eek:

I honestly didn't know he was a republican. I just assumed (my first mistake) that since he was writing for CNN...well you understand.:D

Either way he still wrote a factual, heartfelt and non partisan article on the crap going on in DC regarding the stimulus bill to which I agree fully.

Dan

Hardly a non-partisan article. Unless you are leaning way to the right. His only non-partisan part was that both sides are true politicians doing only what is best for the party, not what is best for the country.


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[Biggd]

And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost -

5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized)
6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured)
150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products
150,000 due to heart disease
20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol
10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange

How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkForget about the total deaths for a minute. Do you not have any compassion for the health care workers who are fighting a losing battle trying to keep people alive and stay healthy themselves?
The quickness of the spread is overwhelming our health care system and this is with the measures we've taken. What happens if we lose all these health care workers to sickness? Who is going to take care of the sick, you?

[MAXUM]

Great point! Check out these Liberal Fear-Mongers at the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html) and their Goddamned expert opinions under-lied with expert reasoning and facts!

“More cases of COVID-19 are likely to be identified in the United States in the coming days, including more instances of community spread. CDC expects that widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States will occur. In the coming months, most of the U.S. population will be exposed to this virus.

Widespread transmission of COVID-19 could translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, and workplaces, may experience more absenteeism. Mass gatherings may be sparsely attended or postponed. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and sectors of the transportation industry may also be affected. Healthcare providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. Nonpharmaceutical interventions will be the most important response strategy to try to delay the spread of the virus and reduce the impact of disease.”

GOOD the quicker everyone is exposed to this the quicker we have a large number of people with a natural immunity to this thing and be done with it.

All the side effects as described are already happening anyways as mandated by the government to shutdown or severely cripple businesses, movement of people and social gatherings.

Finally and more importantly these "experts" are operating on opinions that vary widely and the only factual data they have to work with is what numbers are known at the moment, that is number of confirmed infections and deaths. THIS IS A PARTIAL PICTURE of the actual full story. Even these "experts" acknowledge the hard numbers as reported now representing infections may be as little as 12% of the actual number. So based on that the US currently has 104K confirmed cases, lets say this number really is only 12% that would indicate that over 1,000,000 have been exposed. With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

So who's "facts" and "numbers" are right? Well I guess that all comes down to how you assemble the "facts" and "opinions" now doesn't it?!?

Whole thing is turning hysterically comical. I think half the population is scared of their own shadow for cripes sake.

[WinnisquamZ]

Forget about the total deaths for a minute. Do you not have any compassion for the health care workers who are fighting a losing battle trying to keep people alive and stay healthy themselves?
The quickness of the spread is overwhelming our health care system and this is with the measures we've taken. What happens if we lose all these health care workers to sickness? Who is going to take care of the sick, you?

We can’t thank the health workers enough at times like these. The same can be said for police and fire when their number gets called. With that said, all the panic coming from the health care professionals is discouraging. Adds no value. Everyone is overwhelmed and doing their best


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[StevenGilford]

GOOD the quicker everyone is exposed to this the quicker we have a large number of people with a natural immunity to this thing and be done with it.

"Yay! Let's overwhelm the healthcare system and ensure the maximum number of people die so that we can get back to making money!"

Finally and more importantly these "experts" are operating on opinions that vary widely and the only factual data they have to work with is what numbers are known at the moment, that is number of confirmed infections and deaths. THIS IS A PARTIAL PICTURE of the actual full story. Even these "experts" acknowledge the hard numbers as reported now representing infections may be as little as 12% of the actual number. So based on that the US currently has 104K confirmed cases, lets say this number really is only 12% that would indicate that over 1,000,000 have been exposed. With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

So who's "facts" and "numbers" are right? Well I guess that all comes down to how you assemble the "facts" and "opinions" now doesn't it?!?

"These experts are only drawing the best conclusions they can from an incomplete set of data by using their extensive judgement and experience. There are differing projections but they all currently show that the worst is yet to come and while the measures we are currently taking are having an effect, we don't have anywhere in the country that has reach the 'apex' of the curve, and indeed other hotspots seem to be breaking out. FAKE NEWS!

But dear leader Trump thinks we can open up by Easter based on his gut feeling and the fact that Easter is a 'beautiful day'. NOW THERE'S SOME ANALYSIS I CAN GET ON BOARD WITH!"

[Biggd]

We can’t thank the health workers enough at times like these. The same can be said for police and fire when their number gets called. With that said, all the panic coming from the health care professionals is discouraging. Adds no value. Everyone is overwhelmed and doing their best


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)My oldest daughter is an RN so I know the panic is real.

[Biggd]

But dear leader Trump thinks we can open up by Easter based on his gut feeling and the fact that Easter is a 'beautiful day'. NOW THERE'S SOME ANALYSIS I CAN GET ON BOARD WITH!"But he's trying to make us all feel better, don't you feel better now? :rolleye2:

[WinnisquamZ]

My oldest daughter is an RN so I know the panic is real.

Panic from the public is expected. The level of panic from the professionals is disappointing. They are the ones trained and expected to provide and guide the public though times like these, they can do better


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[Not to Worry]

GOOD the quicker everyone is exposed to this the quicker we have a large number of people with a natural immunity to this thing and be done with it.

All the side effects as described are already happening anyways as mandated by the government to shutdown or severely cripple businesses, movement of people and social gatherings.

Finally and more importantly these "experts" are operating on opinions that vary widely and the only factual data they have to work with is what numbers are known at the moment, that is number of confirmed infections and deaths. THIS IS A PARTIAL PICTURE of the actual full story. Even these "experts" acknowledge the hard numbers as reported now representing infections may be as little as 12% of the actual number. So based on that the US currently has 104K confirmed cases, lets say this number really is only 12% that would indicate that over 1,000,000 have been exposed. With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

So who's "facts" and "numbers" are right? Well I guess that all comes down to how you assemble the "facts" and "opinions" now doesn't it?!?

Whole thing is turning hysterically comical. I think half the population is scared of their own shadow for cripes sake.

Every expert that I have heard says this far more deadly than the flu. Where did you get your "facts" from... because you do not have any basis to make that fake claim.

I am sure the current infection and death rate are very, very under counted. Many more are already infected and many have died that have not been counted. Can I prove that? Nope. But I can prove that people have had it but not been tested and I can logically infer that people who die that were not tested do not show up as a stat.

I cannot help wondering what mental mindset a person has to have that it is important to their own psyche to deny the obvious. I know Major has already confessed to being a dolt, so at least I understand him.

[IrishEyes]

http://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah

[SailinAway]

What happens if we lose all these health care workers to sickness? Who is going to take care of the sick, you?

Also, what happens when food supply workers get sick? Farmers, harvesters, packers, truck drivers, grocery store employees. Who is going to provide our food?

[StevenGilford]

With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

This year the flu has killed between 139 and 358 per day. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm)

On Friday COVID-19 killed 332 people in a single day (https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/mar/27/coronavirus-map-of-the-us-latest-cases-state-by-state), and this number is climbing daily.

[SailinAway]

GOOD the quicker everyone is exposed to this the quicker we have a large number of people with a natural immunity to this thing and be done with it.

Your post encourages me because I'm pretty sure I'm going to outlive you, since you probably aren't going to be taking precautions to protect yourself from this fake pandemic. On the other hand, there's a high likelihood that your disbelief is going to kill me.

[SailinAway]

My oldest daughter is an RN so I know the panic is real.

The news is full of first-person, on-the-scene accounts from doctors and nurses describing what it's like to be trying to treat people with inadequate equipment (ventilators, etc.) and personal protection, with no cure for the virus, in chaotic hospitals. How could they not be panicking? What reason do the rest of us have for not being alarmed?

[SailinAway]

Panic from the public is expected. The level of panic from the professionals is disappointing. They are the ones trained and expected to provide and guide the public though times like these, they can do better

Health workers can only provide healthcare and guide the public through the crisis if they have the support of a government that is making rational decisions about the crisis, responding to it in a timely manner, and providing health workers with the facilities and equipment they need. This is not what has happened. You would panic too if you were too dedicated to abandon a job that was likely to kill you.

[fatlazyless]

15750



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...... say-hey ......this Irving w/ $1.49 gas ...... somewhere in NH? ...... might be ten cents cheaper than the Golden Pond, but for $1.59, Golden Pond has old man Henry Fonda who comes outside, says hellooooooo, pumps the gas, washes the windshield, checks the oil, and usually tries to sell you a quart of GulfTEC Full Synthetic dexos-1 Gen 2 Motor Oil for 6.99/quart ..... so watch out for him!

[Biggd]

They are the ones trained and expected to provide and guide the public though times like these, they can do better


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I sure hope you and your family are well and don't need medical care anytime soon because they can't do any better unless they get enough of the appropriate equipment.

[Newbiesaukee]

Being panicked and doing your job are not mutually exclusive.

[4 for Boating]

Seems to me that what this is highlighting is the further need for the US to try to bring back manufacturing of critical supplies, resources and drugs ingredients and become more self sufficient.

I think I have heard that before somewhere...

[C-Bass]

$1.49 at the Irving in Moultonborough.

[thinkxingu]

$1.49 at the Irving in Moultonborough.I almost stopped to fill up, but I only needed 4 or 5 gallons. $2.24 at home, still. Sad face!

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[StevenGilford]

This year the flu has killed between 139 and 358 per day. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm)

On Friday COVID-19 killed 332 people in a single day (https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/mar/27/coronavirus-map-of-the-us-latest-cases-state-by-state), and this number is climbing daily.

Almost 500 deaths today (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/28/coronavirus-deaths-cases-usa-united-states/2934169001/)

I hope everyone now agrees that COVID-19 is worse than the regular flu. It's now just a case of narrowing in on just how much worse it is.

The World Health Organization is reporting a mortality rate of 4.6% (who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200328-sitrep-68-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=384bc74c_2) based on worldwide confirmed positives and deaths. We know this is likely to be the extreme upper bound of the mortality rate due to under reporting and lack of testing.

In the US the current mortality rate based on known infections is 1.9% (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html), with the same caveats as above.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu" (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-compared-flu-experts-wrong/story?id=69779116) which would be at least a 1% mortality rate.

Still think we are overreacting?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Almost 500 deaths today (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/28/coronavirus-deaths-cases-usa-united-states/2934169001/)

I hope everyone now agrees that COVID-19 is worse than the regular flu. It's now just a case of narrowing in on just how much worse it is.

The World Health Organization is reporting a mortality rate of 4.6% (who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200328-sitrep-68-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=384bc74c_2) based on worldwide confirmed positives and deaths. We know this is likely to be the extreme upper bound of the mortality rate due to under reporting and lack of testing.

In the US the current mortality rate based on known infections is 1.9% (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html), with the same caveats as above.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu" (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-compared-flu-experts-wrong/story?id=69779116) which would be at least a 1% mortality rate.

Still think we are overreacting?

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

[Major]

Almost 500 deaths today (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/28/coronavirus-deaths-cases-usa-united-states/2934169001/)

I hope everyone now agrees that COVID-19 is worse than the regular flu. It's now just a case of narrowing in on just how much worse it is.

The World Health Organization is reporting a mortality rate of 4.6% (who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200328-sitrep-68-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=384bc74c_2) based on worldwide confirmed positives and deaths. We know this is likely to be the extreme upper bound of the mortality rate due to under reporting and lack of testing.

In the US the current mortality rate based on known infections is 1.9% (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html), with the same caveats as above.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu" (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-compared-flu-experts-wrong/story?id=69779116) which would be at least a 1% mortality rate.

Still think we are overreacting?


More than ever. I shudder to think how we will react to a real crisis in which our liberties and freedoms are at stake. Fauci’s a hack. I’m confident he’s not worried about whether he’s going to receive his next paycheck. Not like my son who is furloughed for three months and worried about whether he has a job to return to after all this nonsense.


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[StevenGilford]

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

You're happy for 3.6million or more Americans to needlessly die? It's fine if you do, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I find it abhorrent, but it's fine.

[Major]

You're happy for 3.6million or more Americans to needlessly die? It's fine if you do, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I find it abhorrent, but it's fine.


Fake news.


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[SailinAway]

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

The worst evil I can think of at the moment is dying alone on a cot in a makeshift "hospital" in a gymnasium because there's no ventilator that could save my life . . . because my government failed to prepare for a pandemic ages ago, when it knew it was unprepared and knew that a pandemic was inevitable at some point, and failed to take timely action when it was clear that a pandemic was developing.

[StevenGilford]

More than ever. I shudder to think how we will react to a real crisis in which our liberties and freedoms are at stake. Fauci’s a hack. I’m confident he’s not worried about whether he’s going to receive his next paycheck. Not like my son who is furloughed for three months and worried about whether he has a job to return to after all this nonsense.


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But no alternative sources of facts? Do you accept the facts but just don't care? Your son's next 3 paychecks is more important to you than the lives of 3.6million or more Americans?

Same as above, great for you if that's your outlook on life. I find it abhorrent, but you're welcome to your opinion.

[StevenGilford]

Fake news.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:laugh: Oh dear. Oh well. I tried but with people like you there is no reasoning. Enjoy your Fox News / OANN bubble, and your "I got mines, screw everyone else" attitude.

[SailinAway]

Fauci’s a hack.

Which epidemiologist, in your opinion is NOT a hack? What expert should we listen to? Please post a link to a scientist or epidemiologist who you think is credible. You are reading the scientific evidence, are you not? I assume you are, because you project yourself as so well informed about the level of threat.

"Medical Expert Who Corrects Trump Is Now a Target of the Far Right": https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

"An analysis by The New York Times found over 70 accounts on Twitter that have promoted the hashtag #FauciFraud, with some tweeting as frequently as 795 times a day. The anti-Fauci sentiment is being reinforced by posts from Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, a conservative group; Bill Mitchell, host of the far-right online talk show “YourVoice America”; and other outspoken Trump supporters such as Shiva Ayyadurai, who has falsely claimed to be the inventor of email.

"Many of the anti-Fauci posts . . . have been retweeted thousands of times. On YouTube, conspiracy-theory videos about Dr. Fauci have racked up hundreds of thousands of views in the past week. In private Facebook groups, posts disparaging him have also been shared hundreds of times and liked by thousands of people, according to the Times analysis. . . . The campaign against Dr. Fauci stands out because he is one of the world’s leading infectious disease experts."

[Major]

I’ll bet you my house 3,200,000 Americans will not die from this. We’re at 2000, a long way from 3,200,000. Hyperbolic!


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[SailinAway]

I’ll bet you my house 3,200,000 Americans will not die from this. We’re at 2000, a long way from 3,200,000. Hyperbolic!


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I'll bet MY house that you can't provide any credible scientific evidence to support your claim that COVOID-19 isn't a real crisis. I can't decide whether you're a troll or just a very socially immature narcissist.

[StevenGilford]

3,200,000 Americans will not die from this.

I agree. Because of the reaction (that you call an overreaction).

If we do nothing until it's too late, like you seem to advocate, then 3.2million+ will die from the virus, exacerbated by the overwhelming of the medical system.

[Major]

You know what I find abhorrent? That there are American citizens so willing to give up their rights because politicians and government hacks tell them to do so and sound authoritative while doing it. You can cower in Gilford. That’s your right. But don’t go telling me that you have all the so-called facts because pointy headed Washington bureaucrats are crying that the sky is falling.

And you bet my a$$ I care a lot more about my son than some jerk from Gilford.


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[StevenGilford]

And you bet my a$$ I care a lot more about my son than some jerk from Gilford.

And this is the problem right here. This is not a me versus you issue, and the fact that you think it is, is very very sad.

[ApS]

I can understand the government wanting to help its distressed citizens, but why should any money go to corporations?

They don't vote, they can't contract the coronavirus. Oh, and how in hell is the treasury going to come up with an extra two trillion dollars? The national deficit mounts and nobody, but nobody, seems to care. It's almost enough to make me think fondly of Bill Clinton: at least he knew what a balanced budget was.
Boeing has asked suppliers to prepare for a resumption of production of 737-Max by May, 2020.
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/boeing-wants-to-resume-production-of-737-max-by-may-report

[gillygirl]

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

You go first!


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[gillygirl]

Fauci’s a hack.

Above all else, this proves you’re a dolt.


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[gillygirl]

Which epidemiologist, in your opinion is NOT a hack? What expert should we listen to? Please post a link to a scientist or epidemiologist who you think is credible. You are reading the scientific evidence, are you not? I assume you are, because you project yourself as so well informed about the level of threat.

You are giving him way too much credit as to being informed.


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[Winilyme]

You know what I find abhorrent? That there are American citizens so willing to give up their rights because politicians and government hacks tell them to do so and sound authoritative while doing it. You can cower in Gilford. That’s your right. But don’t go telling me that you have all the so-called facts because pointy headed Washington bureaucrats are crying that the sky is falling.

And you bet my a$$ I care a lot more about my son than some jerk from Gilford.


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And now it comes down to school yard name-calling.

Major, your hard-headed opinions do liven up the forum. But when you are long on opinion and short on facts, ignorant of what's happening 300 miles south of the lake, and immediately dismissive of alternative viewpoints with little concrete evidence to support your own, you are hardly complementing yourself. It feels like all you care about is, well, you.

I'm guessing you find it impossible to believe but there actually are authorities on this subject matter that just might be a tad more educated than you are.

[gillygirl]

And now it comes down to school yard name-calling.

Major, your hard-headed opinions do liven up the forum. But when you are long on opinion and short on facts, ignorant of what's happening 300 miles south of the lake, and immediately dismissive of alternative viewpoints with little concrete evidence to support your own, you are hardly complementing yourself. It feels like all you care about is, well, you.

I'm guessing you find it impossible to believe but there actually are authorities on this subject matter that just might be a tad more educated than you are.

He claims to be an engineer. I have experienced many engineers who throw out the facts as noise.


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[coolyourjets]

More than ever. I shudder to think how we will react to a real crisis in which our liberties and freedoms are at stake. Fauci’s a hack. I’m confident he’s not worried about whether he’s going to receive his next paycheck. Not like my son who is furloughed for three months and worried about whether he has a job to return to after all this nonsense.


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Since you are an expert on H1N1, COVID and seemingly pretty much everything, maybe you should have guided your son into a career that’s more rescission or catastrophe-proof. Many industries are hiring at a blazing clip, I’m sure it’s not too late to change careers.

I assume that with your view of this being unnecessary or an overreaction, you or any member of your family will hold the line and be deferring care if you should catch this virus? Or, will that be your line in the sand?


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[kawishiwi]

Thanks Major. The liberal fear-mongers hate the facts. All I can picture is the scene from the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch has water dumped on her. “I’m melting, I’m melting”!!! Facts are to liberals, as water was to the witch.

Being desperately ignorant of mathematics is not uncommon or really your fault. Exponential math can be a challenge!
Swallowing the nonsense coming out of the white house & guzzling the fox news cool-aid IS however your fault completely. Reacting to any info you don't feel good about by labeling it 'fake news' is really just immature and may work for you until reality bites you in the ...

Heres a few facts...

Reported U.S. daily deaths
Thur 26th : 293
Fri 27th : 401
Sat 28th : 525
Sun 29th : ?

These are not updated totals of the dead, but new deaths each day.

Quiz: do you see a pattern here? (hint:exponential math)

[winterh]

Seems to me the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the "We are all going to die from the virus" and "The virus is nothing to worry about". No rational person (are there any of these left?) would object to many of the precautions we have taken so far. On the other hand the side that thinks we can shut down the economy for months on end while the government feeds and takes care of us like we are farm animals has no concept of economics. A middle ground must be found and thats the line I see the administration trying to take. I have used the analogy and I am sure you have heard it elsewhere before of the speed limit. Thousands die every year in car accidents. We could eliminate every death with a 10 MPH speed limit. Why don't we? Don't you care that people die! Life is about tradeoffs is the answer. Every decision must balance the cost vs the benefits.

[MAXUM]

Your post encourages me because I'm pretty sure I'm going to outlive you, since you probably aren't going to be taking precautions to protect yourself from this fake pandemic. On the other hand, there's a high likelihood that your disbelief is going to kill me.

I was exposed to far worse deadlier things in Desert Storm and Somalia and survived just fine while in the military.

I'm sorry I don't go all mental like you people do and cower inside my little safe space wrapped up in toilet paper and disinfectant wipes. Ya know a very high percentage of people actually survive this.

[MAXUM]

Being desperately ignorant of mathematics is not uncommon or really your fault. Exponential math can be a challenge!
Swallowing the nonsense coming out of the white house & guzzling the fox news cool-aid IS however your fault completely. Reacting to any info you don't feel good about by labeling it 'fake news' is really just immature and may work for you until reality bites you in the ...

Heres a few facts...

Reported U.S. daily deaths
Thur 26th : 293
Fri 27th : 401
Sat 28th : 525
Sun 29th : ?

These are not updated totals of the dead, but new deaths each day.

Quiz: do you see a pattern here? (hint:exponential math)

Can you please now extrapolate that into a carbon footprint savings please? I want to know how much this will effect man made climate change, in a good way of course! This is actually exciting isn't it? I'm figuring at this rate we may be able to extend the - "we are all dead in 12 years" claim.

[winterh]

We could all use a laugh right now. This is an awesome takedown of the everyone will die crowd.

https://reason.com/video/remy-people-will-die/

[Major]

He claims to be an engineer. I have experienced many engineers who throw out the facts as noise.


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WPI, class of ‘87. Mechanical engineering.


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[MAXUM]

WPI, class of ‘87. Mechanical engineering.


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In case anyone is wondering that's no community college.

[jeffk]

If you want a discussion of "facts", HERE (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/numerators_and_denominators_in_the_coronavirus_sag a.html) is a good article that clearly discusses the difficulty of getting useful information at this time.

It has nothing to do with who is speaking or where they get their numbers or their reliability or smartness. There are simply too many moving parts and too much uncertainty to get numbers to plug in that give accurate answers. Garbage in (even if you think the numbers going in are right, they are not, per the article), Garbage out. This is being verified by the experts as their expectations are NOT being borne out by boots on the ground realities.

We do not know if this is going to be a typical seasonal flu impact or a bad pandemic. We do not know if the reaction to it is too much, too little, or just right. People are digging in to pick "winners" or "losers" of intentions or reactions based on personal favorites and politics. We CANNOT decide certainties based on data because the data and models based on it is shifting sand.

My gut tells me that the extremes are wrong. We will struggle but it will not be a disaster. We need to be nimble and react to changing realities. We need to work on being prepared.

In the end, those who were "right" about the course of this virus will be so because of luck, not knowledge.

[thinkxingu]

WPI, class of ‘87. Mechanical engineering.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWas engineering even a thing in the 80's?!

I think balance is key in most things. The problem is that finding balance in America is almost impossible, so extremes are used to move the needle. Historical movements and policies show this over and over.

So, while a "let's keep the spread to a minimum" request should result in people keeping a safe distance, not congregating in big groups, cleaning and washing hands thoroughly, staying in as much as possible, etc. it has resulted in "shut the world down" for some and "don't tread on me" for others.

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[StevenGilford]

If you want a discussion of "facts", HERE (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/numerators_and_denominators_in_the_coronavirus_sag a.html) is a good article that clearly discusses the difficulty of getting useful information at this time.

It has nothing to do with who is speaking or where they get their numbers or their reliability or smartness. There are simply too many moving parts and too much uncertainty to get numbers to plug in that give accurate answers. Garbage in (even if you think the numbers going in are right, they are not, per the article), Garbage out. This is being verified by the experts as their expectations are NOT being borne out by boots on the ground realities.

We do not know if this is going to be a typical seasonal flu impact or a bad pandemic. We do not know if the reaction to it is too much, too little, or just right. People are digging in to pick "winners" or "losers" of intentions or reactions based on personal favorites and politics. We CANNOT decide certainties based on data because the data and models based on it is shifting sand.

My gut tells me that the extremes are wrong. We will struggle but it will not be a disaster. We need to be nimble and react to changing realities. We need to work on being prepared.

In the end, those who were "right" about the course of this virus will be so because of luck, not knowledge.

I’m glad you put “facts” in quotations marks because you really should when quoting a conservative blog.

Coronavirus: Dr Deborah Birx making ‘fundamental scientific errors’ in rush to reopen US, warns expert behind White House data (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-harvard-scientist-deborah-birx-scientific-error-a9429516.html)

“A leading US epidemiologist has accused one of the doctors on the White House’s coronavirus task force of “false reassurance” after she said a model he helped develop to predict the spread of the virus overstated the number of people likely to develop Covid-19 – when in fact it referred to something more like a best-case scenario.”

[StevenGilford]

So in summary:

Some people still don’t believe the virus is real

Some people believe the virus is just a flu

Some people believe the virus is more than a flu but won’t kill many people

Some people believe the virus is more than a flu and will kill some people but so what?

Some people believe the virus is more than a flu and might kill a lot of people, but working and making money is more important

Experts believe that best case model projections this virus is a lot worse than the flu and the containment measures we are taking are completely necessary

Experts believe that the worst cast model projections this virus is really bad and more containment measures are likely to be necessary


I don’t know about you all, but with faced with these “facts”, I don’t think we should take the middle ground between Deniers and Best Case Models. We should be preparing to cope with the worst case expert models and desperately hoping that the best case models prove true. We should not be preparing for the best case models and hoping the denier nutballs prove true.

[Newbiesaukee]

It is so much easier to bask in the glow of absolute certainty regardless of reality

than to accept the humility of the wise who seek truth recognizing it is absolutely

not totally attainable but is the best path to real knowledge and effective action.


Wishing and hoping ain’t no match for thinking and doing.

[StevenGilford]

Also, to preempt the next line of logical acrobatics, that Trump has already used to some extent:

"StevenGilford wants to shut down the whole US economy for 2 years to blow up our economy and stop Trump getting elected!"

No, not in the slightest.

I want the US economy to get back up and running as soon as we identify the true curves and numbers, and have confidence that our mitigation strategies are robust enough to manage the spread and impact based on input and guidance from multiple experts.

[MAXUM]

Also, to preempt the next line of logical acrobatics, that Trump has already used to some extent:

"StevenGilford wants to shut down the whole US economy for 2 years to blow up our economy and stop Trump getting elected!"

No, not in the slightest.

I want the US economy to get back up and running as soon as we identify the true curves and numbers, and have confidence that our mitigation strategies are robust enough to manage the spread and impact based on input and guidance from multiple experts.

Here's the problem with "guidance from multiple experts"

None of them know what the hell they are talking about. They provide nothing but theories based on what? The most critical piece of information is missing, how many people are actually infected with this? Answer is nobody knows. We only know the number who have died and the how many are confirmed to have it but that is NOT enough to accurately forecast anything.

Better analogy... computer models forecast the weather based on a whole slew of data points. Now try to accurately forecast the weather a week or two from now with half the data points missing. Now add a meteorologist to interpret it. We already know how inaccurate they are when they have all the data to work with and are forecasting a major storm. Now inject key pieces of data being missing and how much more inaccurate will they be? That is what we are dealing with here.

It's the fear of the unknown and the fact we have no instant solution that is driving people to this level of hysteria.

These outbreaks historically happen, they come and they go. Some die most do not. Freaking out about all this is not going to change the course this thing runs, only how long and painful it will be.

[jeffk]

:):):):):):):):):):)

[StevenGilford]

Here's the problem with "guidance from multiple experts"

None of them know what the hell they are talking about. They provide nothing but theories based on what? The most critical piece of information is missing, how many people are actually infected with this? Answer is nobody knows. We only know the number who have died and the how many are confirmed to have it but that is NOT enough to accurately forecast anything.

Better analogy... computer models forecast the weather based on a whole slew of data points. Now try to accurately forecast the weather a week or two from now with half the data points missing. Now add a meteorologist to interpret it. We already know how inaccurate they are when they have all the data to work with and are forecasting a major storm. Now inject key pieces of data being missing and how much more inaccurate will they be? That is what we are dealing with here.

It's the fear of the unknown and the fact we have no instant solution that is driving people to this level of hysteria.

These outbreaks historically happen, they come and they go. Some die most do not. Freaking out about all this is not going to change the course this thing runs, only how long and painful it will be.

I'm not sure which part of this reply you believe more.

If it's the "critical missing piece of information" then the logical next step would be to pick a state and conduct widespread testing, and you should be lambasting Trump for telling us that "everyone who wants a test can get it" when the reality is that's not true.

If on the other hand your belief is "**** happens, people die, suck it up grandma your time is up" then fine. Abhorrent to me, but fine.

[Newbiesaukee]

Here's the problem with "guidance from multiple experts"

None of them know what the hell they are talking about. They provide nothing but theories based on what? The most critical piece of information is missing, how many people are actually infected with this? Answer is nobody knows. We only know the number who have died and the how many are confirmed to have it but that is NOT enough to accurately forecast anything.

Better analogy... computer models forecast the weather based on a whole slew of data points. Now try to accurately forecast the weather a week or two from now with half the data points missing. Now add a meteorologist to interpret it. We already know how inaccurate they are when they have all the data to work with and are forecasting a major storm. Now inject key pieces of data being missing and how much more inaccurate will they be? That is what we are dealing with here.

It's the fear of the unknown and the fact we have no instant solution that is driving people to this level of hysteria.

These outbreaks historically happen, they come and they go. Some die most do not. Freaking out about all this is not going to change the course this thing runs, only how long and painful it will be.

“None of them know what the hell they are talking about.”

And yet, you do look at the weather report, you do recognize that today’s forecast is more accurate than next week’s.

No one is claiming absolute knowledge, just the best prediction based on the opinion of those most likely to know. Of course, ignore those who have opinions you know are at extremes.

And it would have been a lot better had we the data points that earlier and more widespread testing would have given us.

[Biggd]

So in summary:

Some people still don’t believe the virus is real

Some people believe the virus is just a flu

Some people believe the virus is more than a flu but won’t kill many people

Some people believe the virus is more than a flu and will kill some people but so what?

Some people believe the virus is more than a flu and might kill a lot of people, but working and making money is more important

Experts believe that best case model projections this virus is a lot worse than the flu and the containment measures we are taking are completely necessary

Experts believe that the worst cast model projections this virus is really bad and more containment measures are likely to be necessary


I don’t know about you all, but with faced with these “facts”, I don’t think we should take the middle ground between Deniers and Best Case Models. We should be preparing to cope with the worst case expert models and desperately hoping that the best case models prove true. We should not be preparing for the best case models and hoping the denier nutballs prove true.You forget one.
Some people believe there is an acceptable number of deaths we should be under so they don't lose a pay check.
It's all a hoax, fake news, another attempt by the left to get the President out of office, LOL!

[WinnisquamZ]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of how we move forward and which “experts” to believe or disbelieve. Inasmuch as we would like our opinions to matter and take president over others, they do not. Only those of the current administrations at the federal, state, local levels matter. They will identify how and when we move forward from this. To quote a former president “elections have consequences”
Not saying we sit back and enjoy the ride, but can’t you all be a bit more civil


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[jbolty]

Almost 500 deaths today (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/28/coronavirus-deaths-cases-usa-united-states/2934169001/)

I hope everyone now agrees that COVID-19 is worse than the regular flu. It's now just a case of narrowing in on just how much worse it is.

The World Health Organization is reporting a mortality rate of 4.6% (who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200328-sitrep-68-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=384bc74c_2) based on worldwide confirmed positives and deaths. We know this is likely to be the extreme upper bound of the mortality rate due to under reporting and lack of testing.

In the US the current mortality rate based on known infections is 1.9% (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html), with the same caveats as above.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu" (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-compared-flu-experts-wrong/story?id=69779116) which would be at least a 1% mortality rate.

Still think we are overreacting?

WHO is not trustworthy for a number of reasons but here's one

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/who-tells-countries-they-can-end-lockdowns-in-certain-areas-same-group-that-misled-global-community-on-covid-19-numbers/


basing mortality on only the number of confirmed cases is bad math. the would be like counting drunk driving deaths on only the number stopped and caught.

taking care is one thing but stoking panic is another.

[StevenGilford]

WHO is not trustworthy for a number of reasons but here's one

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/who-tells-countries-they-can-end-lockdowns-in-certain-areas-same-group-that-misled-global-community-on-covid-19-numbers/


basing mortality on only the number of confirmed cases is bad math. the would be like counting drunk driving deaths on only the number stopped and caught.

taking care is one thing but stoking panic is another.

It's the best source of data to give us the extreme upper end of the range at the moment. Is it likely to hold true as more data and analysis becomes available? No. And being at the extreme end of the predictions, it's not likely to end up as reality.

But why cherry pick one number from my post which gives the projections an overall range of 1% to 4.6%?

What would you consider "good math"? What is your suggested range of mortality rates, and what do you base it on?

[TheRoBoat]

Some random thoughts from the left coast as we approach 2 weeks of shelter in place. I wasn’t sure what thread to put this in, but it made the most sense here.

When will things “open up” out here in CA? Not until this peaks, and we have a long way to go. This is a good article from the LA Times - https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-28/how-bad-will-the-next-few-weeks-for-california-as-coronavirus-cases-explode

Everything described in that article is headed your way. It’s just a matter of scale. When I read a lot of the posts here, there seems to be a commonality that the lakes region is somehow far away, or removed from the dangers. You’re right in the center of it, and you don’t have a lot of access to close by help. “Numbers” mean nothing at this point. All you need to look at is that expanding red circle around NYC.

Most important upcoming battle - Sununu vs. Trump. It’s inevitable - and I look forward to reading who will support who at that time.

The only important numbers to you in the lakes region now center around capacity. Supplies, and beds, in hospitals. I’m sure someone may have more accurate numbers, but it appears there are about 60K Belknap residents, served by three hospitals, with about 160 beds.

These are the only numbers you need to run your hypothetical scenarios against, as it will soon be the only thing that matters. Don’t forget that pesky “timeframe” that so many leave out. In other words - 36K a year is one thing. 36K in a month is, well, worse.

I don’t recall seeing much either here in the forums, or in the Daily Sun, about the plans for when the hospitals fill up, and supplies run out, in the lakes region. There is overflow being added down south, but you will not have access to that.

Perhaps the doubters minds will change when a refrigerated truck or two pulls up outside LRGH?

[StevenGilford]

It's really easy to knock people down by saying "wrong!" "FAKE NEWS!" "jerk!" but if anyone wants to engage in a constructive debate, please bring some facts to the discussion.

Hold this against me, and I'm sure someone will, but I am not an expert. I admit I am not an expert. All I am doing is reading, digesting, and validating facts and data from multiple primary and secondary sources. If these sources turn out to be wrong, or inaccurate, or my interpretation is flawed, but all means offer alternatives. I will spin on a ****ing dime if they are better than the sources I'm using because my thoughts on this are not fixed and tribal.

So far the "alternative evidence" produced is:


An OANN article (proven to be misleading at best, lies at worst)
A quote from Dr Deborah Birx (asserted that she is being misleading by the author of the data she quotes)
Assertions that "we just don't know" (which we all understand we don't know it all, but that doesn't mean we don't know anything)
A conservative blog (opinions)
Incomparable figures from driving and cancer deaths

[The Real BigGuy]

Didn’t some military guy somewhere say, “Plan for the worst, hope for the best”?


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[gillygirl]

Here's the problem with "guidance from multiple experts"




Better analogy... computer models forecast the weather based on a whole slew of data points. Now try to accurately forecast the weather a week or two from now with half the data points missing. Now add a meteorologist to interpret it. We already know how inaccurate they are when they have all the data to work with and are forecasting a major storm. Now inject key pieces of data being missing and how much more inaccurate will they be? That is what we are dealing with here.






I was waiting for you to use numerical weather prediction and meteorologists in your arguments. Since you know it all, you will have no problem with the following assignment.

Perform a scale analysis of the primitive equations of motion that govern large-scale atmospheric motions. Explain each step.

15759



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[Major]

It's really easy to knock people down by saying "wrong!" "FAKE NEWS!" "jerk!" but if anyone wants to engage in a constructive debate, please bring some facts to the discussion.

Hold this against me, and I'm sure someone will, but I am not an expert. I admit I am not an expert. All I am doing is reading, digesting, and validating facts and data from multiple primary and secondary sources. If these sources turn out to be wrong, or inaccurate, or my interpretation is flawed, but all means offer alternatives. I will spin on a ****ing dime if they are better than the sources I'm using because my thoughts on this are not fixed and tribal.

So far the "alternative evidence" produced is:


An OANN article (proven to be misleading at best, lies at worst)
A quote from Dr Deborah Birx (asserted that she is being misleading by the author of the data she quotes)
Assertions that "we just don't know" (which we all understand we don't know it all, but that doesn't mean we don't know anything)
A conservative blog (opinions)
Incomparable figures from driving and cancer deaths


I've had a constructive debate. I've argued the raw numbers and our ability as a society to tolerate other much worse risks. You chose to ignore the FACTS I propose. And only after you labeled my opinion as abhorrent and let's be real me as abhorrent did I call you a jerk.

I'm sorry, but I have a healthy skepticism to follow the advice of a federal employee since 1984, who has a vested interest in creating a crisis. (Don't think for a second National Institute of Health's funding won't skyrocket because of this so-called crisis.) These are the same people that are telling us that climate change is an existential threat. These are the same people who want to release CRIMINALS from prisons and jails with absolutely no job prospects. (What could go wrong.)

Don't think for a second that a result of this shut down could bring about lawless behavior. Looting in the inner cities is certainly one likely outcome, which will result in an even more public distain of our law enforcement officers. There is more of a likelihood of this happening than the 3,600,000 deaths you referenced before.

I have never stated that the Chinese coronavirus is not real. It is. How come it had to be an all-or-nothing approach? Wouldn't the smarter approach to encourage safe behavior while enable Americans to earn a living. Those like my parents have to be careful, living their lives as the do now -- only going out to obtain food and necessities, while the rest of us, who are relatively young and healthy can continue our lives but with a level of cautiousness.

I can debate this all day long. However, I have work to do and should probably focus on that.

[Billy Bob]

Let’s keep in mind that the ultimate danger is that large numbers of people all get this at the same time and we overwhelm the medical system, example Italy and what seems to be NYC and others.
Then YOU get sick with anything and can’t get help.
Right now the goal is to stretch out the folks getting this over a longer period of time so our supplies and facilities can handle the volume. Flatten the curve.
No one is having their rights removed , staying in place is now simply common sense. The next few weeks could make the difference , not the time to drive home from Florida or open the lake house. Let’s get the volume controllable.sit tight and do your part to flatten the curve.
Last , Major simply can’t be ligit , has to be a troll set up to cause civil unrest.

[Major]

Didn’t some military guy somewhere say, “Plan for the worst, hope for the best”?


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To the best of my knowledge, no military guy ever said "shelter in place and cower in your homes in the foreseeable future!" To answer your question, couldn't have planning for the worst have been achieved with a more metered approach?

[StevenGilford]

couldn't have planning for the worst have been achieved with a more metered approach?

Like taking more action earlier on, maybe even before the first confirmed case in the US by running simulations and having contingency plans, along with keeping the federal group active that would track and respond to them? Then taking more decisive action when it was confirmed here instead of down playing it and calling it a Democrat hoax?

I'm glad we both agree that Trump is a moron who cares for nobody except himself.

[StevenGilford]

Chinese coronavirus

Oh nice one! You really owned this lib-tard! :laugh:

[Major]

Oh nice one! You really owned this lib-tard! :laugh:

I knew it would trigger you. So easy!

[joey2665]

I knew it would trigger you. So easy!



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] like shooting fish in a barrel. But be careful with your posts you could get accused of being on the forum and posting 24/7 like I was accused of yesterday [emoji23]


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[FlyingScot]

I’ll bet you my house 3,200,000 Americans will not die from this. We’re at 2000, a long way from 3,200,000. Hyperbolic!


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Where did you get 3,200,000 deaths? Is this part of the smear campaign? Will you bet your house that 100,000 will not die?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/29/nation/fauci-predicts-millions-coronavirus-cases-us-more-than-100000-deaths/

[thinkxingu]

Saw this a few minutes ago. Not sure it adds to this conversation, but it's pretty clear cut info from a reliable source.
https://youtu.be/8A3jiM2FNR8

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[Major]

Where did you get 3,200,000 deaths? Is this part of the smear campaign? Will you bet your house that 100,000 will not die?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/29/nation/fauci-predicts-millions-coronavirus-cases-us-more-than-100000-deaths/

I'm sorry, I misquoted Steven from Gilford. Read above, he referenced a potential of 3,600,000 deaths from the Chinese coronavirus.

[Top-Water]

But be careful with your posts you could get accused of being on the forum and posting 24/7 like I was accused of yesterday


I predict we wiil have a new number 1 poster in 2 years. If the web-master does not get sick of everyone fighting and closes the place down. {But don't worry, it won't be you}. :liplick::liplick: Your not even close to taking things over.

Stay safe Joey

[Major]

I'm glad we both agree that Trump is a moron who cares for nobody except himself.

And here we have it. The root of your concern. Don't worry Steve, this overreaction to the Chinese coronavirus is going to backfire. Trump will be reelected by a margin greater than ever imagined. He is a true leader, and his leadership skills are on full display.

[Biggd]

Last , Major simply can’t be legit , has to be a troll set up to cause civil unrest.He must be a Russian troll who wants many Americans to die. :confused:
But in all seriousness he is Trumps "mini me". :emb:

[Biggd]

I predict we wiil have a new number 1 poster in 2 years. If the web-master does not get sick of everyone fighting and closes the place down. {But don't worry, it won't be you}. :liplick::liplick: Your not even close to taking things over.

Stay safe JoeyI don't see FLL relinquishing that title without a fight.:D

[Top-Water]

I don't see FLL relinquishing that title without a fight.:D


:laugh::laugh::laugh: And I think you are right but have a feeling that the obsessed will give him a run for his money.

[fatlazyless]

I don't see FLL relinquishing that title without a fight.:D

...... say-hey ..... I don't post because I like to post ..... I post because I am so totally bored out of my mind and have nothing better to do ..... is more like a disease ..... cough-cough-cough ...... excuse me!

[StevenGilford]

And here we have it. The root of your concern.

The root of my concern is the health and wellbeing of all Americans that will die but could be prevented.

this overreaction to the Chinese coronavirus is going to backfire. Trump will be reelected by a margin greater than ever imagined. He is a true leader, and his leadership skills are on full display.

This however, shows the roots of your stance. You have drank the kool-aid and are a full on Trumpette. Immune to facts and reason.

[joey2665]

I predict we wiil have a new number 1 poster in 2 years. If the web-master does not get sick of everyone fighting and closes the place down. {But don't worry, it won't be you}. :liplick::liplick: Your not even close to taking things over.

Stay safe Joey



Won’t be me. I have no desire or need to surpass FLL. I post only when I feel I can contribute to a conversation of assist others that have similar beliefs as myself. Also have given free tax advice many times.

I must tell you the negativity I am receiving lately is disheartening it’s fine to disagree everyone is entitled to their own opinions but to say I post too much, I find it personally insulting and there are many others that have posted more than me.

I will continue to be on the site as I find much of the information useful, although not recently, however I will not be posting very much any longer I’m sure many of you will be happy. Good luck and stay safe all.


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[TiltonBB]

Like taking more action earlier on, maybe even before the first confirmed case in the US by running simulations and having contingency plans, along with keeping the federal group active that would track and respond to them? Then taking more decisive action when it was confirmed here instead of down playing it and calling it a Democrat hoax?

I'm glad we both agree that Trump is a moron who cares for nobody except himself.

TDS is alive and well!

Despite the rants of the left and the different levels of reaction to the virus, the people who are so consumed with TDS should prepare themselves for 4 1/2 more years of a Trump Presidency. If the virus clears up in the next few months November is still coming. For some people, 2020 is going to be a very bad year!

In other news:

“The CDC’s response has been excellent, as it has been in the past,” said John Auerbach, president of the nonpartisan Trust for America’s Health, which works with government at all levels to improve the nation’s response to high-risk health crises. Some Democrats have charged that Trump decimated the nation’s public health leadership, but Auerbach said CDC’s top scientific ranks have remained stable during the past three years.

THE FACTS: They’re wrong to say the agencies have seen their money cut. Bloomberg repeated the false claim that states the U.S. is unprepared for the virus because of “reckless cuts” to the CDC. Instead, financing has increased while Trump has been President.

[Major]

Won’t be me. I have no desire or need to surpass FLL. I post only when I feel I can contribute to a conversation of assist others that have similar beliefs as myself. Also have given free tax advice many times.

I must tell you the negativity I am receiving lately is disheartening it’s fine to disagree everyone is entitled to their own opinions but to say I post too much, I find it personally insulting and there are many others that have posted more than me.

I will continue to be on the site as I find much of the information useful, although not recently, however I will not be posting very much any longer I’m sure many of you will be happy. Good luck and stay safe all.


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It won't be me either. I am passionate about our President and preserving conservative values. The negativity is disappointing. However, what's more disappointing is how easy we turtle and give up our liberties and freedoms without questioning why. This time it's the Chinese coronavirus. Next time it will be climate change. Next time it will be because China owns us, and we have to submit because bureaucrats tell us so. I won't convince them and they won't convince me. I can live with that. That's what makes America great - diversity of views. At the end of the day I hope we can share a cocktail and have a few laughs about the silliness of it all. Because what I think and others think really doesn't matter or change the course of events.

[Top-Water]

Won’t be me. I have no desire or need to surpass FLL. I post only when I feel I can contribute to a conversation of assist others that have similar beliefs as myself. Also have given free tax advice many times.

I must tell you the negativity I am receiving lately is disheartening it’s fine to disagree everyone is entitled to their own opinions but to say I post too much, I find it personally insulting and there are many others that have posted more than me.

I will continue to be on the site as I find much of the information useful, although not recently, however I will not be posting very much any longer I’m sure many of you will be happy. Good luck and stay safe all.




The short reply:
I feel the same as you these days, that why I'm mostly just posting old photos these days. I don't feel I wanna share every single detail of my life on here.

[StevenGilford]

what's more disappointing is how easy we turtle and give up our liberties and freedoms without questioning why.

The issue with this statement is that you assume people don't question why, when the reality is many people do. They simply come to a different conclusion than you.

That's what makes America great - diversity of views. At the end of the day I hope we can share a cocktail and have a few laughs

Completely agree :cheers:

[Top-Water]

It won't be me either. I am passionate about our President and preserving conservative values. The negativity is disappointing. However, what's more disappointing is how easy we turtle and give up our liberties and freedoms without questioning why. This time it's the Chinese coronavirus. Next time it will be climate change. Next time it will be because China owns us, and we have to submit because bureaucrats tell us so. I won't convince them and they won't convince me. I can live with that. That's what makes America great - diversity of views. At the end of the day I hope we can share a cocktail and have a few laughs about the silliness of it all. Because what I think and others think really doesn't matter or change the course of events.

Thank you ....... worth repeating.

[JEEPONLY]

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

It would be my position that Stark was referring to the inhumanities between people as opposed to a pandemic.

Nice try though.

[Seaplane Pilot]

It would be my position that Stark was referring to the inhumanities between people as opposed to a pandemic.

Nice try though.

Thanks to the Constitution, you are free to express your opinion as you have here. My opinion may vary.

[thinkxingu]

The short reply:
I feel the same as you these days, that why I'm mostly just posting old photos these days. I don't feel I wanna share every single detail of my life on here.Define hypocrisy: the guy who always has something critical to say complaining about negativity.

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[thinkxingu]

Won’t be me. I have no desire or need to surpass FLL. I post only when I feel I can contribute to a conversation of assist others that have similar beliefs as myself. Also have given free tax advice many times.

I must tell you the negativity I am receiving lately is disheartening it’s fine to disagree everyone is entitled to their own opinions but to say I post too much, I find it personally insulting and there are many others that have posted more than me.

I will continue to be on the site as I find much of the information useful, although not recently, however I will not be posting very much any longer I’m sure many of you will be happy. Good luck and stay safe all.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)I agree, Joey—though I don't always see eye-to-eye with people here, it's always been my MO to live and let live.

The amount of criticism here lately—too many posts, political attacks, personal criticisms over life decisions, etc.—is pathetic.

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[BoatHouse]

I'm glad we both agree that Trump is a moron who cares for nobody except himself.

Well There IT is! Your only motivation. you have now been exposed. Move to MA so you can vote the Democrat ticket

[StevenGilford]

Well There IT is! Your only motivation. you have now been exposed. Move to MA so you can vote the Democrat ticket

Sure, ignore everything else I've said, including my actual motivations. It's pretty much the modus operandi of sycophantic Trump supporters.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Sure, ignore everything else I've said, including my actual motivations. It's pretty much the modus operandi of sycophantic Trump supporters.

Steven, Steven, Steven......you must get rid of the rage! It’s not healthy! One post after the other...ranting, raging, name-calling....way over the top. Cut yourself a break....and the rest of us....and please knock it off! Take a deep breath...that’s it.....very good....now try to relax and be happy. 😎

[StevenGilford]

Steven, Steven, Steven......you must get rid of the rage! It’s not healthy! One post after the other...ranting, raging, name-calling....way over the top. Cut yourself a break....and the rest of us....and please knock it off! Take a deep breath...that’s it.....very good....now try to relax and be happy. 😎

I'm going to do some yoga and meditate until the death numbers are released this evening.

[Pricestavern]

I gauze into my crystal ball and see...

Thousands of American citizens dead but not millions. People look at the final numbers and say, "See - it was a hoax. Not nearly as many people died. It wasn't the catastrophe predicted. Fake news."

It will remind me of Y2K and how, after tens of thousands of IT workers spend millions of hours combing thru code and fixing problems in the couple of years leading up to 2000, not much went wrong and people looked back and said, "See! It was much ado about nothing." The efforts and preparations lost to them in the moments after that midnight.

It will be because of the self-quarantines, the social distancing, the closures of social gathering places and places of business that 3.2 million people did not ultimately die. But cause and effect can be intangible things that only look at the moment.

It is a bad foreboding for the future should a truly terrible virus comes along, something akin to Ebola but spreads farther, and people will look back at covid-19 and say, "See! Another hoax." The lessons will having not been learned and we dither...

[longislander]

Does anyone know, or believe they know, that the anti-malaria drugs will work as a fix to covid-19? Had to take them while in Vietnam, with the U.S. Army, May 67-Feb. 69.

After reading this thread ... might start taking again! :eek:

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Does anyone know, or believe they know, that the anti-malaria drugs will work as a fix to covid-19? Had to take them while in Vietnam, with the U.S. Army, May 67-Feb. 69.

After reading this thread ... might start taking again! :eek:

Apparently, they are running trials on this anti-malarial drug, hydrochloroquine, combined with an antibiotic, I believe Zpac. Some physicians and hospitals have claimed success with it on some of their severely ill Coronavirus patients. Hope it pans out as it sounds very promising.

[WinnisquamZ]

It appears our President listened to the experts and will extend the stay home to April 30th.


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[4 for Boating]

Another drug called Remdesivir by Gilead is also under study/trials (Started with 6 hospitals and now up to 44 > then they got overwhelmed with requests and had to pause any new sites) I think I heard they are also extended it for special cases - preliminary results are encouraging but these tings take time as these trials don't mean much unless they are wide ranging and real data can be extracted.

I "think" this is a new drug as compared to the malaria one which has been around for a long time and has a track record.

[StevenGilford]

Trump is currently acknowledging that 2.2million people would have died if we did nothing.

[StevenGilford]

Despite the usual attacks on some of the press, and at least one major whopper (claiming he didn't say on Hannity that he didn't believe NY would need 30-40k ventilators), this has been his best daily briefing by far.

He states that 2.2million would have died with no action.

Extended federal distancing guidance to April 30th

Expecting the 'apex' to occur in 2 weeks' time (optimistic, but at least he is looking for an apex now)

Sounds like the projections they are basing decisions on will be released on Tuesday

Accepting if they keep death totals to 100-200k or lower they will be doing a "good job".

[Biggd]

Conservative heads are exploding! :eek:

[fatlazyless]

Heath's super market in Center Harbor has changed their hours:

Monday - Saturday 8 to 6

Sunday 8 to 1
..............

7am to 8am, Monday - Saturday; open for age 60+ or with compromised immunity

[WinnisquamZ]

Conservative heads are exploding! :eek:

Explain?


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[ApS]

Does anyone know, or believe they know, that the anti-malaria drugs will work as a fix to covid-19? Had to take them while in Vietnam, with the U.S. Army, May 67-Feb. 69. After reading this thread ... might start taking again! :eek:
Looking at a map of typically-malarial regions of Africa, you'll see that the areas taking anti-malarial drugs are empty of the Wuhan-corona virus. Africans taking anti-malarial drugs as treatment for Lupus disease aren't appearing with Wuhan-corona virus.

Another drug called Remdesivir by Gilead is also under study/trials (Started with 6 hospitals and now up to 44 > then they got overwhelmed with requests and had to pause any new sites) I think I heard they are also extended it for special cases - preliminary results are encouraging but these tings take time as these trials don't mean much unless they are wide ranging and real data can be extracted. I "think" this is a new drug as compared to the malaria one which has been around for a long time and has a track record.

There is a cocktail of drugs now being given in the US. Doctors have been appearing in great support of Hydroxychloroquine, Chloroquine, and Remdesivir. Millions of doses are in the process of being shipped to the US by Teva Pharmaceuticals of Israel. All will have arrived by this Tuesday.

Being studied are side effects of heart arrhythmia and eye complications. One recorded account is of a recovered man at Joe DiMaggio hospital in Palm Beach County, Florida.

Although several days old, physicians' successes are being podcast 24/7 at The Sean Hannity Show. The title is "The Latest COVID-19 Treatments". (97 minutes).

[TiltonBB]

I hope so!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyTTbLA3AZY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0AmhQElOca2c7TfdaZg8w5YMWSb6lM6yKNt9fDS Bs-QjcdocbRnaGz6_c

[fatlazyless]

Free access on the corona virus crisis: www.nytimes.com ...... read all about it!

'Trump Extends Social Distancing Guidelines Through End of April' by Michael D. Shear ........ written and updated on March 29 & 30, 2020

Here's two paragraphs from this report that really caught my attention:

The president also expressed horror at the grim scenes playing out at hospitals in New York City, where he spent much of his adult life. He cited the situation at Elmhurst Hospital Center - "I know it very well," he said - which has been inundated in recent days with people ill from the virus.

"I've been watching that for the last week on television, body bags all over in hallways," Mr. Trump said. "I have been watching them bringing in trailer trucks, freezer trucks because they can't handle the bodies. There are so many of them. This is in essentially my community in Queens, New York. I have seen things that I have never seen before."

[The Real BigGuy]

To the best of my knowledge, no military guy ever said "shelter in place and cower in your homes in the foreseeable future!" To answer your question, couldn't have planning for the worst have been achieved with a more metered approach?

If you take a “more metered” approach, by definition you are not planning for the worst. I think that puts you in the realm of planning for the almost worst.


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[Joebon]

I am confused. Didn’t our president limit activity with social distancing guidance? Didn’t the governor of NH limit business activity? Also, didn’t our president and our congress just give the biggest welfare package in history? I am not seeing this as a liberal handouts or a grab of personal freedom.

If you or a family member was laid off, I feel sorry for them. The economy has been propped up by the government for a long time and it was bound to happen at some point. Check the relief package for money you can get from the government. Also, check with the company that laid you off because if they had less than 500 employees, they can still make payroll through June 30th up to annual salaries of $100k per employee through the relief package.

My opinion is that this is all because testing failed and it was not taken seriously by most people from the get go. When it gets to NH, most resources in the country will be depleted. So, NH will not be immune.

Telling out of state home owners to stay in their home states is taking away personal freedom. And, no state or individual has any right to do that. My opinion is that the spread will occur regardless of out of state home owners. The spread will occur because disease spreads and people move from state to state for many things, including deliveries of supplies.

I am one county away from NYC and I am NOT going to my lake house. I am staying here because (1) NY will be over it by the time it peaks in NH and (2) NH in the spring is the worst time to be in NH.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

I hope so!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyTTbLA3AZY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0AmhQElOca2c7TfdaZg8w5YMWSb6lM6yKNt9fDS Bs-QjcdocbRnaGz6_c

Thanks for posting this, Tilton. I’m SHOCKED that the mainstream media hasn’t reported this!:rolleye1::rolleye1:

[Newbiesaukee]

I am confused. Didn’t our president limit activity with social distancing guidance? Didn’t the governor of NH limit business activity? Also, didn’t our president and our congress just give the biggest welfare package in history? I am not seeing this as a liberal handouts or a grab of personal freedom.

If you or a family member was laid off, I feel sorry for them. The economy has been propped up by the government for a long time and it was bound to happen at some point. Check the relief package for money you can get from the government. Also, check with the company that laid you off because if they had less than 500 employees, they can still make payroll through June 30th up to annual salaries of $100k per employee through the relief package.

My opinion is that this is all because testing failed and it was not taken seriously by most people from the get go. When it gets to NH, most resources in the country will be depleted. So, NH will not be immune.

Telling out of state home owners to stay in their home states is taking away personal freedom. And, no state or individual has any right to do that. My opinion is that the spread will occur regardless of out of state home owners. The spread will occur because disease spreads and people move from state to state for many things, including deliveries of supplies.

I am one county away from NYC and I am NOT going to my lake house. I am staying here because (1) NY will be over it by the time it peaks in NH and (2) NH in the spring is the worst time to be in NH.


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It is such a pleasure to read a thoughtful well-written post and not think about the writer’s politics; even if I don’t 100% agree.

[Newbiesaukee]

Thanks for posting this, Tilton. I’m SHOCKED that the mainstream media hasn’t reported this!:rolleye1::rolleye1:

I am not shocked that the righty media did. Having said that, it is good to see a different point of view from an informed academic.

[Billy Bob]

Thanks for posting this, Tilton. I’m SHOCKED that the mainstream media hasn’t reported this!:rolleye1::rolleye1:

Please look up the source , this new network is a far right group of wack jobs, watch a few of their reports on subjects other then the virus and you will see they are a no fact shock new people

[Biggd]

Please look up the source , this new network is a far right group of wack jobs, watch a few of their reports on subjects other then the virus and you will see they are a no fact shock new peoplePeople believe what they want to believe regardless of who puts it out there.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Please look up the source , this new network is a far right group of wack jobs, watch a few of their reports on subjects other then the virus and you will see they are a no fact shock new people

Oh that's right...If it doesn't come out of CNN or the rest of the left-wing mouthpieces, then it can't be true. Perhaps we should call Stanford University to verify whether it's true or not. Seems like a simple solution. I will send them a message today, and will report back on their response.

[Newbiesaukee]

There is a Michael Levitt at Stanford who did make suggestions that the modeling may be wrong and the report cited before is generally accurate in Levitts thoughts. As usual, always helps to try to find the truth. The source of this particular story is a right wing, not generally reliable source.

As my smartest professor used to say “ Even the blind squirrel sometimes finds the acorn.”

DON’T trust, but sometimes verify anyway.

AND, this was reported by the New York Times.

[fatlazyless]

Miss New Hampshire-1993, Trish Regan from Hampton, NH, who graduated from Phillips Exeter Academy '91 in Exeter, NH recently lost her job at Fox Business news on March 27, 2020 because she called the coronavirus an "impeachment scam."

About ten years ago, she was a business reporter at CNBC news and she was a different type of a reporter back then with straight ahead, business news without the political spin.

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/business/trish-regan-fox-business-coronavirus.html

I have no glue, oopsie-make that clue .....ha-ha-ha ..... and who knows, but just maybe she will show up at One America News as Miss New Hampshire-1993, Trish Regan ...... here!!! ...... with all your One America News ....... baby! ...... here's what's happen'n!

If she dresses a wee bit more provocatively she could be a big hit for O.A.N. ..... One America News ..... attracting viewers and advertisers which is what it's all about.

So, where does she go ...... fired from Fox ..... a new rising star at OAN in NYC? ...... seems possible and is total conjecture coming from me?

Maybe she will forgo the bright lights of cable news, and return to Phillips Exeter Academy and teach eighth and ninth graders how to compose compound, complex sentences in English?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Same story published by the left-leaning LA Times:

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-22/coronavirus-outbreak-nobel-laureate

[BrownstoneNorth]

Since you are an expert on H1N1, COVID and seemingly pretty much everything, maybe you should have guided your son into a career that’s more rescission or catastrophe-proof. Many industries are hiring at a blazing clip, I’m sure it’s not too late to change careers.

I assume that with your view of this being unnecessary or an overreaction, you or any member of your family will hold the line and be deferring care if you should catch this virus? Or, will that be your line in the sand?


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Or maybe, since Major claims to be so successful, he could just subsidize his son to tide him over — for starters, with the money he's so upset not to be able to blow on a vacation to Pompano Beach.

[BrownstoneNorth]

:laugh: Oh dear. Oh well. I tried but with people like you there is no reasoning. Enjoy your Fox News / OANN bubble, and your "I got mines, screw everyone else" attitude.

Right, no point at all.

Author Rex Stout's detective Nero Wolfe replying to a client in awe of his genius who asked if there's *anything* he can't do:

“Yes, madame, there is. I couldn't put sense into a fool's brain if I tried.”

[StevenGilford]

Same story published by the left-leaning LA Times:

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-22/coronavirus-outbreak-nobel-laureate

If you're interested, I would really like to understand what your takeaway is from this article is.


Here's my understanding:

- Michael Levitt believes that looking at the rate of increase of confirmed positives or deaths is a good indicator that an outbreak is approaching the apex, and when this happens you can better predict the final numbers. He gives some examples of countries where he thinks this is the case: South Korea and Iran. He gives one example of countries where this is not the case: Italy.

- He says that the outbreak won't be as bad as some people fear, but doesn't give context to this - he could mean won't be as bad as the upper end models (i.e. Fauci's 2.2million estimate).

- He gives some opinion and editorial about reporting.

- He agrees that implementing social distancing and other mitigation measures are required



When you take his approach, and look at the day-by-day rate of increase of cases and deaths in the US, we look more like Italy right now than Iran and South Korea and so we are still in the 'acceleration' phase of the curve.

[VitaBene]

Or maybe, since Major claims to be so successful, he could just subsidize his son to tide him over — for starters, with the money he's so upset not to be able to blow on a vacation to Pompano Beach.

There will be a lot of subsidizing going on by a lot of parents. I know I will be helping mine.

[Major]

Or maybe, since Major claims to be so successful, he could just subsidize his son to tide him over — for starters, with the money he's so upset not to be able to blow on a vacation to Pompano Beach.

When did I claim to be so successful? Unfortunately, you're right about my vacation, looks like it's being postponed to the fall.

I find it sort of humorous, everyone on this Forum is handwringing about people they don't know who have or could catch the Chinese coronavirus. Yet people with REAL life difficulties, whether my son losing his job, or good restaurant owners (Baygo and Sam) having to deal with closing or reducing schedules of their restaurants, they are mocked and dismissed. To date, I know far more, e.g., two dozen or so, people who will be irreparably affected by this overreaction. I don't know one person or a friend of one person who actually has the Chinese coronavirus.

[StevenGilford]

The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) has published their models in an accessible way, and includes state by state breakdowns. (https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections)

The model seems to be in line with the current federal models, estimating 39,000 to 142,000 total deaths assuming the continuation of strong social distancing measures and other protective measures.

Across the US they expect peak hospital resource usage to occur on April 15th. You can drill down to New Hampshire which they think is 2 weeks behind, and will hit peak hospital resource usage on April 30th.

[StevenGilford]

To date, I know far more, e.g., two dozen or so, people who will be irreparably affected by this overreaction. I don't know one person or a friend of one person who actually has the Chinese coronavirus.

How many people that you know would need to catch the virus, or die from the virus, to make it worth impacting the two dozen people you know that are suffering economically?

[Mr. V]

Or maybe, since Major claims to be so successful, he could just subsidize his son to tide him over — for starters, with the money he's so upset not to be able to blow on a vacation to Pompano Beach.

Of course he should, as should we all help our family members out in times of trouble.

It used to be that the family was the primary support group for individuals; what happened?

You bring 'em into the world, they're your primary responsibility, not society's.

[Major]

How many people that you know would need to catch the virus, or die from the virus, to make it worth impacting the two dozen people you know that are suffering economically?

I don't know, but doesn't it seem silly to close down an entire county for 8 confirmed cases?

Like the President said, none. However, that's not realistic. In the U.S., roughly 2,500,000 people die every year, for a variety of reasons. The flu was particularly bad a couple of years ago in which 60,000 to 80,000 died. Updated estimates of the Chinese coronavirus may reach this amount, yet you never heard about the bad flu year and we didn't collapse our economy. You can't deny that FAR, FAR more people are adversely affected by shutting down the economy. 30% of our workforce is out of work. That's higher than the Great Depression.

[StevenGilford]

I don't know, but doesn't it seem silly to close down an entire county for 8 confirmed cases?


Not to me. On February 26th, President Trump told us there were only 15 cases in the US, and "within a couple days [it is] going to be down to close to zero". We're now at more than 150,000.

Open up Belknap County because "there are only 8 confirmed cases" uses the same faulty logic. You also made the point earlier in this thread that we "don't know the denominator" and that's true, both across the US and in NH. With 8 confirmed cases, how many do you actually think are in the county?

[Biggd]

It's unfortunate that some people have to personally feel the effects of the virus to actually believe it's real.
Major refuses to believe that sickness and even death from the virus is more important than loss of income from the virus because no one that he knows has it.
I don't personally know anyone that has the virus but I know many that are financially effected by it including my children. If it's a choice of friends and family being safe or making money I will choose safety every time.

[thinkxingu]

I just want my new jetski.15762

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[VitaBene]

If it's a choice of friends and family being safe or making money I will choose safety every time.


Neither you or your family will ever be 100% "safe". Living life precludes that. Are we going to drive to the lake at 10 MPH? Get rid of our dangerous "oversized" boats? Should we shut the country down next flu season so no one can catch it? No, we are going to take precautions and enjoy our lives.

Reading these threads, anyone suggesting anything short of a full shutdown of the US, has been attacked as a greedy capitalist ogre. I have read pretty much every post on this forum regarding this topic and have noted that people are concerned with the health of the economy, not their personal checkbook.

Hind-sight is truly 20/20. We will know in a year or so if we under- or over- reacted. I know that not everyone will agree on that analysis. I regularly write and audit emergency response plans (ERPs). We can prepare and draft plans all we want, but we can't have the supplies and equipment on hand to mitigate every risk- there are too many possible eventualities.

Be careful and safe!

[StevenGilford]

Neither you or your family will ever be 100% "safe". Living life precludes that. Are we going to drive to the lake at 10 MPH? Get rid of our dangerous "oversized" boats? Should we shut the country down next flu season so no one can catch it? No, we are going to take precautions and enjoy our lives.

I will do my utmost to avoid any activity or illness that possibly has a 1 in 7 chance of killing my grandparents. Next year when there is a vaccine and treatment, and the mortality rate drops, I'll treat COVID-19 like those other activities.

[Biggd]

Neither you or your family will ever be 100% "safe". Living life precludes that. Are we going to drive to the lake at 10 MPH? Get rid of our dangerous "oversized" boats? Should we shut the country down next flu season so no one can catch it? No, we are going to take precautions and enjoy our lives.

Reading these threads, anyone suggesting anything short of a full shutdown of the US, has been attacked as a greedy capitalist ogre. I have read pretty much every post on this forum regarding this topic and have noted that people are concerned with the health of the economy, not their personal checkbook.

Hind-sight is truly 20/20. We will know in a year or so if we under- or over- reacted. I know that not everyone will agree on that analysis. I regularly write and audit emergency response plans (ERPs). We can prepare and draft plans all we want, but we can't have the supplies and equipment on hand to mitigate every risk- there are too many possible eventualities.

Be careful and safe!
There is no way to avoid a financial hit from this pandemic either. The best case is to take these precations so we can get back to business as soon as possible with as few casualties as possible. But a few on here refuse to believe the numbers, or they choose to ignore them.

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[VitaBene]

I will do my utmost to avoid any activity or illness that possibly has a 1 in 7 chance of killing my grandparents. Next year when there is a vaccine and treatment, and the mortality rate drops, I'll treat COVID-19 like those other activities. Understood, but those vaccines and treatments are not going to invent, package, market, deliver and sell themselves.

I am not implying that we need to rush, but we certainly need to get this country moving again.

[StevenGilford]

Understood, but those vaccines and treatments are not going to invent, package, market, deliver and sell themselves.

I am not implying that we need to rush, but we certainly need to get this country moving again.

Agreed, and that's where neither I nor anybody else I've seen, are advocating shutting down the economy for 1 or 2 years (like Trump claimed "the doctors" want). With the measures that have been put into place already, if they continue, the US overall peak is expected on April 15th according to IHME (https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections) and the whole economy can be opened up sometime in May or June. Being careful to monitor and deal with resurgences of the virus.

[MAXUM]

It's unfortunate that some people have to personally feel the effects of the virus to actually believe it's real.
Major refuses to believe that sickness and even death from the virus is more important than loss of income from the virus because no one that he knows has it.
I don't personally know anyone that has the virus but I know many that are financially effected by it including my children. If it's a choice of friends and family being safe or making money I will choose safety every time.

It's a matter of looking at the big picture

This is really no different than say the battle of Normandy. Going into it the casualty count would be high and the outcome unknown but it had to be done. Do you really think all the guys who were there ready to storm the beach would have preferred to choose their personal safety? Of course but they were fighting for a greater cause, for the very survival of this country.

In the same way, if this country fails economically it's screwed. This not about a paycheck or making money but ensuring the very economic engine that makes this country possible survives.

Loss of life is never acceptable if it can be avoided. However at some point with reasonable precautions taken this country needs to get back on it's feet economically. Failure to do so will be far more devastating than anything this virus will dish out. If you refuse to recognize that then you are equally as guilty of the same thing you accuse Major of.

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." If sitting at home waiting for your government handout check to arrive is your answer that's fine, but for many of us that is unacceptable.

[Biggd]

It's a matter of looking at the big picture

This is really no different than say the battle of Normandy. Going into it the casualty count would be high and the outcome unknown but it had to be done. Do you really think all the guys who were there ready to storm the beach would have preferred to choose their personal safety? Of course but they were fighting for a greater cause, for the very survival of this country.

In the same way, if this country fails economically it's screwed. This not about a paycheck or making money but ensuring the very economic engine that makes this country possible survives.

Loss of life is never acceptable if it can be avoided. However at some point with reasonable precautions taken this country needs to get back on it's feet economically. Failure to do so will be far more devastating than anything this virus will dish out. If you refuse to recognize that then you are equally as guilty of the same thing you accuse Major of.

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." If sitting at home waiting for your government handout check to arrive is your answer that's fine, but for many of us that is unacceptable.
You seem to be fine with sacrificing lives to save the economy. Would you be fine with sacrificing your family members to save the economy?

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[StevenGilford]

It's a matter of looking at the big picture

This is really no different than say the battle of Normandy. Going into it the casualty count would be high and the outcome unknown but it had to be done. Do you really think all the guys who were there ready to storm the beach would have preferred to choose their personal safety? Of course but they were fighting for a greater cause, for the very survival of this country.

In the same way, if this country fails economically it's screwed. This not about a paycheck or making money but ensuring the very economic engine that makes this country possible survives.

Loss of life is never acceptable if it can be avoided. However at some point with reasonable precautions taken this country needs to get back on it's feet economically. Failure to do so will be far more devastating than anything this virus will dish out. If you refuse to recognize that then you are equally as guilty of the same thing you accuse Major of.

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." If sitting at home waiting for your government handout check to arrive is your answer that's fine, but for many of us that is unacceptable.

This McKinsey Economic Impact Report (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/economic-impact-covid-19/) states that the quickest way to economic recovery is a strong and successful public health response - controlling the spread of the virus within two-to-three months.

[MAXUM]

You seem to be fine with sacrificing lives to save the economy. Would you be fine with sacrificing your family members to save the economy?

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Saving the economy is the same as saving the country - clearly you fail to make that connection.

Don't you dare smugly ask me about sacrifice I did two tours overseas in war zones while in the military to protect you and now I risk exposure every day going to work to keep the systems alive that are running clinical trials for COVID-19 so back off. You're damn right I would because I am an American and I love this country. I'll be damned if I am going to let some fruit loop like yourself tell me otherwise.

[Biggd]

I didn't ask if you would sacrifice yourself, I asked if you would sacrifice your family members for the economy. We been through economic downturns before and we come out the other end even stronger. We will get through this one and many more to come.

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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Very impressive press conference going on right now, including the CEOs of a number of companies contributing to the Coronavirus effort: Proctor and Gamble, United Technology, Jockey, to name a few. Many corporations are involved in this crisis, and it’s heartwarming, no matter which side of the political spectrum you support......thousands of people, working together to solve the problem.

[Hillcountry]

Very impressive press conference going on right now, including the CEOs of a number of companies contributing to the Coronavirus effort: Proctor and Gamble, United Technology, Jockey, to name a few. Many corporations are involved in this crisis, and it’s heartwarming, no matter which side of the political party you support......thousands of people, working together to solve the problem.

I used to get sick of seeing the “My Pillow” guy, Mike Lindell. I no longer turn off his commercials but now look upon him as a hero, stepping up to serve his country along with all the other business giants. Thank you all!

[MAXUM]

I used to get sick of seeing the “My Pillow” guy, Mike Lindell. I no longer turn off his commercials but now look upon him as a hero, stepping up to serve his country along with all the other business giants. Thank you all!

I hear he is working on the "Giza dream mask" ;)

Mike Lindell is actually a really cool success story if you ever get a chance to read about his company and how he got started. Great guy.

[Hillcountry]

I hear he is working on the "Giza dream mask" ;)

Mike Lindell is actually a really cool success story if you ever get a chance to read about his company and how he got started. Great guy.

I’ll support him and his products! Now if he’d only invent “geezer sheets” as I may need them in the coming years!! :D:eek:

[VitaBene]

Saving the economy is the same as saving the country - clearly you fail to make that connection.

Yes- thank you!

[Barney Bear]

Geezer sheets should be waterproof! ;)

[StevenGilford]

Yes- thank you!

This McKinsey Economic Impact Report (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/economic-impact-covid-19/) states that the quickest way to economic recovery is a strong and successful public health response - controlling the spread of the virus within two-to-three months.

Do you have other information that suggests that saving lives, mitigating the impact of COVID-19, and getting the US economy back on track don't all have the same solution?

[StevenGilford]

56 more people diagnosed with COVID-19 in New Hampshire
(https://www.nhpr.org/post/coronavirus-update-56-new-cases-some-state-liquor-stores-will-close#stream/0)
56 more people have been diagnosed with coronavirus in New Hampshire, bringing the state's total cases to 314. State epidemiologist Dr. Benjamin Chan announced the largest one-day increase in cases since the pandemic began at a press conference Monday (March 30).

"But I want to stress again that even if you live in a town where a map may not show that COVID-19 has been found to be circulating, that we would encourage people to operate under the assumption that COVID-19 is circulating in your community," Chan said.

[WinnisquamZ]

https://twitter.com/wmur9/status/1244771731837005826?s=21


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[gillygirl]

Yet people with REAL life difficulties, whether my son losing his job, or good restaurant owners (Baygo and Sam) having to deal with closing or reducing schedules of their restaurants, they are mocked and dismissed.

Baygo and Sam, have you felt mocked and dismissed?



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[JEEPONLY]

I used to get sick of seeing the “My Pillow” guy, Mike Lindell. I no longer turn off his commercials but now look upon him as a hero, stepping up to serve his country along with all the other business giants. Thank you all!

Same here!
I bought a pillow- didn't like it- but the guy does seem genuine.

[JEEPONLY]

I’ll support him and his products! Now if he’d only invent “geezer sheets” as I may need them in the coming years!! :D:eek:

Only if they're "Egyptian" geezer sheets! :coolsm:

[coolyourjets]

I hear he is working on the "Giza dream mask" ;)

Mike Lindell is actually a really cool success story if you ever get a chance to read about his company and how he got started. Great guy.

Yes, a great guy. Fined $1 Million a few years ago for deceptive advertising practices by claiming that the pillow cures diseases without an ounce of data to back it up. You can like the product but I would guess that most people on here would choose to not support someone who was trying to take advantage of them.


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[TiltonBB]

Yes, a great guy. Fined $1 Million a few years ago for deceptive advertising practices by claiming that the pillow cures diseases without an ounce of data to back it up. You can like the product but I would guess that most people on here would choose to not support someone who was trying to take advantage of them.
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That surprised me so I did a little research. The article I read said the company grosses over $100 million per year and this article says $1.4 million a week on advertising. That doesn't leave much to run the company or hire a lot of lawyers!

MyPillow mired in legal challenges

MyPillow has been facing legal action on several fronts since TINA.org first put the company on notice in February regarding unsubstantiated health claims for its heavily marketed pillow. (The company spends $1.4 million a week on advertising, according to the Boston Herald.) Since then, three class-action lawsuits have been filed against MyPillow, all of which, in one form or another, mirrored TINA.org’s findings. These findings include claims that Lindell is a “sleep expert” despite having no specialized training or board certification in actual sleep medicine (see below); the misuse of several news organizations’ logos, including The New York Times that falsely suggests endorsements by the media outlets; and the misleading nature of the company’s ubiquitous buy-one-get-one-free pillow offer. Citing consumer complaints about the BOGO offer, the BBB in January 2017 revoked MyPillow’s accreditation and lowered its rating from an A-plus to an F.

Several people complained about the company’s ubiquitous buy-one-get-one-free offer. Turns out, the price MyPillow quotes in the promotion as the “regular price” is roughly double what you can pay for a single pillow — a fact now at the center of another class action against the company.

In an interview, MyPillow founder and CEO Michael Lindell noted that MyPillow did not admit any wrongdoing in the California case. He said the company settled in order to avoid the cost and time associated with further litigation.

What can we conclude? Slick marketing is still slick!

[tis]

Same here!
I bought a pillow- didn't like it- but the guy does seem genuine.


I'm not impressed by the pillows either.

[dippasan]

Breeeeeeeathe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RwubJIIa0Q

[lakeporter65]

You seem to be fine with sacrificing lives to save the economy. Would you be fine with sacrificing your family members to save the economy?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

That is such a Foolish question. Not quite sure how anyone with any intelligence could ask that question. Just boggles a mind. Just plain WOW...

[Sue Doe-Nym]

That is such a Foolish question. Not quite sure how anyone with any intelligence could ask that question. Just boggles a mind. Just plain WOW...

As I write this, I am shaking my head in awe....your posts are boggling my mind.....how can you make such foolish comments? Just plain WOW. Please stop disgracing yourself.

[StevenGilford]

It was an ineloquent question but how is it any more "foolish" than someone saying "I don't know anyone with coronavirus so the country is overreacting"? Talk about selective outrage.

[FlyingScot]

That is such a Foolish question. Not quite sure how anyone with any intelligence could ask that question. Just boggles a mind. Just plain WOW...

You need to read more slowly, and then (PUHLEASE!) stop posting.

Readers who were actually paying attention realized that BiggD asked about Maxum's family rhetorically--he "knew" that Maxum would not sacrifice family and only wanted Maxum to acknowledge as much.

But then Maxum--in maybe the most powerful post I've ever read--said that as a military man with 2 tours he WOULD sacrifice his family for the country he loves, and then went even further by noting his current risk for what truly is an essential service.

So as it turns out, BiggD asked an excellent question that provoked an excellent response. My hat is off to both BiggD and Maxum.

This is different that your posts, which as others have noted, are just bitter and ill-founded. Please stop

[lakeporter65]

You need to read more slowly, and then (PUHLEASE!) stop posting.

Readers who were actually paying attention realized that BiggD asked about Maxum's family rhetorically--he "knew" that Maxum would not sacrifice family and only wanted Maxum to acknowledge as much.

But then Maxum--in maybe the most powerful post I've ever read--said that as a military man with 2 tours he WOULD sacrifice his family for the country he loves, and then went even further by noting his current risk for what truly is an essential service.

So as it turns out, BiggD asked an excellent question that provoked an excellent response. My hat is off to both BiggD and Maxum.

This is different that your posts, which as others have noted, are just bitter and ill-founded. Please stop

Yet !! True. They don't follow your left leaning agenda, however they are true. SO, Did you try and be nice to a total stranger today? I sincerely doubt you did. Mass people are just like that.
If the shoe fits??

[Biggd]

If you just signed up to this site to post nasty remarks you will get nasty responses. Esp now that everyone is house bound and stressed to the max!

[lakeporter65]

If you just signed up to this site to post nasty remarks you will get nasty responses. Esp now that everyone is house bound and stressed to the max!

LOL, not that way at all. I speak the truth and some don't want to hear it. I'm fine with that! But I don't on the other hand have to listen to others
misunderstanding of the truth or Their side of the truth and be caught up with what ( I ) call bulls&%t. This is GLOBAL. And all the travelers think it doesn't apply to them. How can that be? Serious question. How can that be?