Boat crash

[codeman671]

A fatality was just reported by Bear Island, boat crash. Not much more info released yet.

https://www.wmur.com/article/man-killed-woman-injured-in-boating-accident-near-bear-island-on-lake-winnipesaukee/29748455

[uschisk]

I saw this on the facebook group and now on WMUR, so tragic.

[ishoot308]

Terrible news indeed!

I was on the lake yesterday and it felt like I was the only one out there...unfortunately I was wrong.....

Dan

[islandgoddess]

we haven't heard anything yet about this unfortunate accident. but just saw it on the news.

[radioman]

Bear Island people are very special. Waiting for more details and keeping my hopes up.

[Bear Islander]

I was just contacted by the Marine Patrol. The accident was right in front of my cabin. They wanted to know if I recorded images from the BearCam. I don't.

[Oblio13]

Brace yourself for more bad news.

[Mink Islander]

Okay, rather than post “teasers” about a sensitive tragedy, here’s the latest: It now appears this was a collision of two boats and the second vessel has been located with a body. I hear it’s another longstanding Bear Island resident but out of deference to the families, I am not naming names.

Let’s show a little sensitivity folks.

[ishoot308]

Okay, rather than post “teasers” about a sensitive tragedy, here’s the latest: It now appears this was a collision of two boats and the second vessel has been located with a body. I hear it’s another longstanding Bear Island resident but out of deference to the families, I am not naming names.

Let’s show a little sensitivity folks.


Wow! Such a tragedy... Thank you for the update...

Dan

[radioman]

FYI Dive teams present at Sheps all day. Searching at northern end of Bear. Much to be learned.

[tis]

Oh no!!! So that means another person died?????

[radioman]

Tis, sorry but that is what it appears.

[Diana]

As a fellow nearby islander, this hits close to home, and i just want to say to these families and the Bear Island community, I am so, so sorry for your losses here.

[tis]

Thank you radioman for your reply. How sad. I feel terrible for them.

[codeman671]

Here is the official update:

Two Dead One In Boat Accident

On November 9th, 2019, at approximately 6:11 p.m., the New Hampshire State Police-Marine Patrol was notified of a boating accident with injury on the north side of Bear Island. The initial report indicated the boat had possibly struck bottom.

Fireboats with EMS personnel from Meredith, Gilford, and Laconia responded to the scene along with Officers from Marine Patrol. The boat, a 20 foot Sea Ray, inboard/outboard, was found adrift just north of the Bear Island Post Office.

Aboard the boat was an injured female passenger who was suffering from head injuries. She was transported to the Meredith Town Docks located next to Shep Brown’s Boat Basin and later to Lakes Region General Hospital in Laconia with serious but non-life threatening injuries. The operator of the boat, a male, was pronounced dead at the scene.

As the investigation continued throughout the evening and into the following morning, Marine Patrol Investigators determined that there was likely another unidentified vessel or structure involved in the collision. While investigating the cause of the accident, Marine Patrol Officers received a report of a possible missing boater from Bear Island. Evidence collected at the scene was determined to match the description of the missing boater’s vessel.

Marine Patrol Officers and Gilford Fire personnel utilized specialized equipment to conducted grid searches in an effort to isolate the location of the collision. The State Police Air Wing - Helicopter and divers from New Hampshire Fish & Game Department were also utilized to assist with searching the area where the collision was believed to have occurred. Based on this collaborative effort, divers from New Hampshire Fish & Game shortly located the second vessel in approximately 48 feet of water. Moments later, divers also located a deceased male subject within the submerged vessel.

Through the initial evidence obtained at the scene and a witness account, it is believed that the two vessels collided with one another while underway; however, all facts and circumstances surrounding the incident are still under investigation. The names of those involved are being withheld at this time pending notification of next of kin.

New Hampshire State Police – Marine Patrol was assisted by Officers from the New Hampshire Fish & Game Department, Gilford Fire & Rescue, the Laconia Fire Department, Meredith Fire and Police Departments and the New Hampshire State Police Air Wing

Marine Patrol is requesting anyone who may have witnessed this incident or may have heard anything on the water in the area of Bear, Pine or Three Mile Islands, to please contact Sergeant Dave Ouellette at Marine Patrol, 603-227-2111.

[tis]

Yes, I just saw that. How awful!!

[joey2665]

Thoughts and prayers to all the families involved. So hard to understand with little to no boat traffic this time of year. Such a terrible shame. [emoji22]


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[radioman]

When you learn the names of those involved you will be shocked!

[Sue Doe-Nym]

When you learn the names of those involved you will be shocked!

I think we will all be very sad for the lives lost and for the families left behind....more sad than shocked. Terrible tragedy.

[joey2665]

No matter who it is it’s a tragedy but I hope neither were fellow forum members


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[thinkxingu]

Sad story for sure, but how do two boats collide--enough for one to sink--and a passenger and the condition of the boat not make it obvious?

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[Cal Coon]

When you learn the names of those involved you will be shocked!Is this really necessary? You should either name names, or not say anything, least of all make a little "game" of it with a tease...

[Oblio13]

Sad story for sure, but how do two boats collide--enough for one to sink--and a passenger and the condition of the boat not make it obvious?
It was clear from the damage and paint streaks that there had been another boat. But the second boat was an old model with no flotation, and it sank. So it took a while to puzzle out where it was and who it belonged to.

The survivor never saw the second boat - she thought that they had run aground.

[thinkxingu]

It was clear from the damage and paint streaks that there had been another boat. But the second boat was an old model with no flotation, and it sank. So it took a while to put the pieces together.

The survivor didn't see it coming - and even thought that they had run aground.My wife and I were just piecing this together and she pointed out that at the time of the incident it would've been dark/getting dark and that the woman might have been confused and disoriented.

This is especially horrible when thinking of that, especially when considering the odds of collision at this time of the year.

My sympathies go out to those affected.

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[Cal Coon]

It was clear from the damage and paint streaks that there had been another boat. But the second boat was an old model with no flotation, and it sank. So it took a while to puzzle out where it was and who it belonged to.

The survivor never saw the second boat - she thought that they had run aground.Pretty amazing that they found the sunken boat so quick in 48' of water when the only clue to begin the search was the other boat adrift... (unless they had other info to go by that I am not aware of).

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Is this really necessary? You should either name names, or not say anything, least of all make a little "game" of it with a tease...

I agree 100%....this is not a game, and is definitely not entertaining. I cannot imagine what the survivor and other family members are enduring.

[joey2665]

Im going to give radioman the benefit of the doubt. really don’t think he was making light of this terrible accident maybe he is suggesting they are long time experienced boaters and surprise this happened.


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[Mink Islander]

This could have been several members of my extended family who have homes on Bear. It wasn’t, thank God. It could have been someone in my direct family - we are often on the lake late in the season. But it was people well known on Bear Island. How about we let the authorities release the names when they know the families have been informed and not sensationalize this tragic accident. Geez. This most certainly is not a game.

[Oblio13]

Pretty amazing that they found the sunken boat so quick in 48' of water when the only clue to begin the search was the other boat adrift... (unless they had other info to go by that I am not aware of).
They found it with a towed side scan sonar.

[gillygirl]

My thoughts are with those involved, their family and friends, and the Bear Island community. This hurts my heart.


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[Biggd]

Very sad and certainly not something you would expect on the lake this time of year with so little boat traffic. :(

[iw8surf]

Very sad and certainly not something you would expect on the lake this time of year with so little boat traffic. :(

My thoughts are the opposite on "this time of year with so little boat traffic"

I see this time of year as the time where people will stretch the rules because they know there is no one out and less marine patrol presence.

Don't have a spotter, eeh there's no marine patrol out its November, speed limit? Who's going to pull me over its November. 150' foot rule, there's no one home on that island they wont care its post season. It doesn't make any of it right but I feel people will naturally try to get away with what they can and pre and post season are perfect for those people....

Not saying breaking any rules had anything to do with this crash at all. I honestly have no idea what happened.

[thinkxingu]

My thoughts are the opposite on "this time of year with so little boat traffic"

I see this time of year as the time where people will stretch the rules because they know there is no one out and less marine patrol presence.

Don't have a spotter, eeh there's no marine patrol out its November, speed limit? Who's going to pull me over its November. 150' foot rule, there's no one home on that island they wont care its post season. It doesn't make any of it right but I feel people will naturally try to get away with what they can and pre and post season are perfect for those people....

Not saying breaking any rules had anything to do with this crash at all. I honestly have no idea what happened.If Biggd was thinking similarly to me, he was thinking more about the numbers game. Statistically, there are close to zero boats to collide with.

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[MAXUM]

OR take it from somebody who is out there all 4 seasons....

When it comes to being out there this time of year at night it is DARK. Very DARK, the MP has already posted they pulled all the flashers, pretty much all island residents but a mere few are gone, therefore there is nothing to light up anything on a moonless night, especially if there is even the hint of a layer of fog out there. It can be very disorientating out there I know I have been there before. I can tell you unequivocally island residents don't screw around out there at least the ones that are there this time of year. This appears to be a very tragic and unfortunate accident and yes accidents do happen for whatever reason it doesn't always have to be due to carelessness. While I do not know the identities of all involved anyone who recognizes the boat that was initially pictured on the WMUR web site knows at least on party. This is extremely sad and for all of us who are island residents know the special friendships that are forged as a result because we all know and depend on one another.

My sincerest condolences and prayers go out to the families of those involved.

[Garcia]

OR take it from somebody who is out there all 4 seasons....

When it comes to being out there this time of year at night it is DARK. Very DARK, the MP has already posted they pulled all the flashers, pretty much all island residents but a mere few are gone, therefore there is nothing to light up anything on a moonless night, especially if there is even the hint of a layer of fog out there. It can be very disorientating out there I know I have been there before. I can tell you unequivocally island residents don't screw around out there at least the ones that are there this time of year. This appears to be a very tragic and unfortunate accident and yes accidents do happen for whatever reason it doesn't always have to be due to carelessness. While I do not know the identities of all involved anyone who recognizes the boat that was initially pictured on the WMUR web site knows at least on party. This is extremely sad and for all of us who are island residents know the special friendships that are forged as a result because we all know and depend on one another.

My sincerest condolences and prayers go out to the families of those involved.

Well said and so true. I’m on the island late and early in season. Everyone I know is more careful during these times.

[codeman671]

My thoughts are the opposite on "this time of year with so little boat traffic"

I see this time of year as the time where people will stretch the rules because they know there is no one out and less marine patrol presence.

Don't have a spotter, eeh there's no marine patrol out its November, speed limit? Who's going to pull me over its November. 150' foot rule, there's no one home on that island they wont care its post season. It doesn't make any of it right but I feel people will naturally try to get away with what they can and pre and post season are perfect for those people....

Not saying breaking any rules had anything to do with this crash at all. I honestly have no idea what happened.

One of the reports online (Union Leader) states that the boat that sank was a Penn Yan driven by a man in his 80's, hardly a speedy vessel.

[ApS]

One of the reports online (Union Leader) states that the boat that sank was a Penn Yan driven by a man in his 80's, hardly a speedy vessel.

The Penn Yan Swift and a Merc wasn't any slouch.

Just say'n…

Would gazing at GPS come into this?

[CaptT820]

I think we are all in agreement here, just in different ways. Statistically there are at least 95% less boats on the lake after November 1st compared with peak season between July 4th and Labor Day, so there is much less of a chance of an incident happening. At the same time as an Islander myself who pushes the season as far as possible, you absolutely make sure that all the factors are as much as possible in your favor early and late season. Call it careful, call it smart, call it aware or whatever you want. Islanders definitely do not screw around in the shoulder seasons when the water is cold and the days are short.

Im sure we'll eventually find out what happened here, but either way we lost two souls to a tragedy.

[ishoot308]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/two-friends-killed-when-boats-collide/article_60a67d2c-04be-11ea-bc00-a38ed612a014.html

So sad.....

Dan

[Oblio13]

Here’s what I can piece together; if anyone has corrections or more information, please add them:

On Saturday evening, 9 Nov, Jim and Carmel Hanson were leaving Bear Island and heading for Shep Brown’s.

Hal Lyon had been muzzle-loader deer hunting on Meredith neck. He parked his car at Shep Brown’s and headed for Bear Island.

Around 6 p.m., just north of the “no wake” zone between Bear and Pine and closer to the latter, they collided. Both boaters knew that part of the lake very well. They were probably hugging Pine to cut the tip of the no-wake “triangle”.

Sunset was about 4:30. The moon was up in the east, three-quarters full. Passing clouds. 6 mph wind from south/southeast. Temp just below freezing.

Jim and Carmel’s Sea Ray bowrider stayed afloat. Carmel suffered head injuries but was able to call 911. They got her to Shep Browns and an ambulance took her to Lakes Region.

She never saw the other boat and thought that they had run aground.

It was clear from the damage to the Sea Ray, though, that there had been a collision with a second boat, and that the second boat was blue.

Hal’s car was at Shep Brown’s, but his old blue Penn Yan was not on his dock at Bear. He wasn’t answering his phone.

The Penn Yan was old enough to not have floatation, so the Marine Patrol figured it was on the bottom. A towed side scan sonar was brought in and located it in 48 feet of water just east of Pine Island (off that red double-bay boathouse). Divers found Hal still in it.

I think Jim and Hal were both killed instantly by trauma. Looks like Carmel will recover.

I’ve never met Carmel. I didn’t know Jim well. But I knew Hal well. He was a kind and educated man who loved the outdoors. I’m still waking up mornings and wondering if I just had a bad dream, but I’m going to miss him when it sinks in.

[Barney Bear]

The East Bear Island community lost two fine residents and friends Saturday evening. We visited Hal and Karin on Columbus Day to say good-bye. Sad that it is forever. 🐻

[map]

Prayers for the family. Just horrible.

[BroadHopper]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news/local/two-friends-killed-when-boats-collide/article_60a67d2c-04be-11ea-bc00-a38ed612a014.html

[LIforrelaxin]

The Penn Yan Swift and a Merc wasn't any slouch.

Image removed

Just say'n…

Would gazing at GPS come into this?

APS, this post was in poor taste.....

[farechofisherman]

What a horrible event. My condolences to the families involved. What a terrible loss for the entire Winnipesaukee community. Hal Lyon is a legendary member of the Winnipesaukee family; an old school gentleman who always had time for a teaching story. A true "lake guy" with a ton of local knowledge, he will be missed! RIP. I am sure Mr. Hanson was from the same cloth, did not know him, and may he RIP also.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

What a Sad Tragedy.

As I was reading, Hal’s name sounded very familiar. He wrote a very special book, Angling in the Smile of the Great Spirit. He was a member here on The Forum.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the loved ones and friends of these two men lost.

[thinkxingu]

What a Sad Tragedy.

As I was reading, Hal’s name sounded very familiar. He wrote a very special book, Angling in the Smile of the Great Spirit. He was a member here on The Forum.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the loved ones and friends of these two men lost.What were the usernames of the deceased?

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[ishoot308]

What were the usernames of the deceased?

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Hal's was halclyon...

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Hal's was halclyon...

DanThanks, Dan. It appears his last post here, in 2016, was to you. Sorry for your loss. https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=270458

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[ishoot308]

Thanks, Dan. It appears his last post here, in 2016, was to you. Sorry for your loss. https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?p=270458

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Hal had been working with a few of us dedicated lake Winni fishermen in getting our issue heard regarding the missing age classes of salmon in the lake. He was instrumental in setting up the initial meetings with the Laconia Daily Sun which got the issue noticed by the NHF&G. Hal had a good Journalism background and had connections in the community which helped us immensely...

Both Hal and Jim were members of the lakes "RFP" group (retired fishing partners) and were dedicated lake Winni anglers...

May they both rest peacefully...

Dan

[radioman]

Cal, sorry you were offended, was simply trying to report the facts. Now that you know the facts, I am sure you can appreciate my not iding anyone.RADIOMAN never plays games.
I knew all the folks involved, and I am upset and sad. Both will be very much missed. JOEY, thank you for sticking up for me

[Cal Coon]

Cal, sorry you were offended, was simply trying to report the facts. Now that you know the facts, I am sure you can appreciate my not iding anyone.RADIOMAN never plays games.
I knew all the folks involved, and I am upset and sad. Both will be very much missed. JOEY, thank you for sticking up for meMaybe I interpreted your words the wrong way. If so, I apologize as well. I thought that you were implying that it was going to be someone famous, or somewhat famous, and were treating it like a typical soap opera on a Friday afternoon!! You know, keep people guessing, in suspense... I thought you were implying it was going to be someone that everyone would know. You know, like a "household" name. Or some big local hot shot or something. Either way, I just thought it was inappropriate, I wasn't offended. However, I appreciate your maturity to take your medicine and apologize. I am impressed, and appreciate it. My condolences to the family and friends of these two men. May they RIP.

[joey2665]

Cal, sorry you were offended, was simply trying to report the facts. Now that you know the facts, I am sure you can appreciate my not iding anyone.RADIOMAN never plays games.

I knew all the folks involved, and I am upset and sad. Both will be very much missed. JOEY, thank you for sticking up for me

Anytime [emoji4]


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Judging from the comments on this forum, these two men are examples of “two lives well lived”, and how much they will be missed by so many whose lives they touched. It’s also a reminder that life is fragile and all too short. My condolences to their families and friends.

[sum-r breeze]

What a tragic loss. I needed to post on this to share my thoughts. I always felt a certain connection with all of my fellow boaters on Winnipesaukee. I feel like we are all kind of like extended family and when one or more of us is hurt or in this case killed on this beautiful lake, it pains me personally. We have found an oasis of sorts here in central NH that we all enjoy immensely. To have something so tragic happen here doesn’t seem right or just. My heart goes out to the loved ones who have suffered this profound loss. It also goes out to the rest of my boating community extended family one and all. When accidents happen on this lake we love so much, we are reminded how in a split second our lives can change forever. So my boating friends....say a prayer for the ones lost and the family they leave behind and be careful out there.

[Jeanzb1]

There are no words.......
But may this enormous tragedy serve as a solemn reminder of how powerful and dangerous our lake is.


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[tis]

It IS so very sad. As someone said, with so few boats on the lake the odds of this happening seem so strange. We all need to think about being more careful next summer when the lake gets busy again.

[Oblio13]

The Penn Yan Swift and a Merc wasn't any slouch.

*image removed*

Just say'n…

Would gazing at GPS come into this?
I can envision looking at GPS as being a factor, too, as they navigated near that tangle of markers between Bear and Pine. I certainly look at mine going through there, even in daylight.

It was dark, and the backgrounds of nearby islands were dark. It was cold, so they were likely huddled behind windshields. They each probably thought that they were the only boat on the lake. They were both probably referencing GPS overlays or apps.

Most accidents are not due to a single cause, but rather to a chain of events that could be interrupted at several points. Environmental factors, complacency, distractions, etc.

There are things to analyze and learn from this tragedy.

Great pic of a classic, BTW.

[MAXUM]

I can envision looking at GPS as being a factor, too, as they navigated near that tangle of markers between Bear and Pine. I certainly look at mine going through there, even in daylight.

It was dark, and the backgrounds of nearby islands were dark. It was cold, so they were likely huddled behind windshields. They each probably thought that they were the only boat on the lake. They were both probably referencing GPS overlays or apps.

Most accidents are not due to a single cause, but rather to a chain of events that could be interrupted at several points. Environmental factors, complacency, distractions, etc.

There are things to analyze and learn from this tragedy.

Great pic of a classic, BTW.

Those guys had been boating on the lake well before GPS even existed. They don't need one. Hell I don't need one, and I've only been out there for 8 years and driven through there hundreds if not a thousand times. That is not a difficult once you're used to it. Plus the Bear Island Post Office has a light on at the dock at night 24X7 year round that does a pretty good job of identifying where the gap is.

Everyone who has been there enough knows the only hazards to worry about in there is staying far enough away from the Pine Island and cutting out wide of the NW point of Bear. Those markers in the middle are for the mail boat and the mount. Shallowest point in there is maybe 8 foot deep.

[Woodsy]

A tragedy for both families and all the Bear Is. family. My condolences to you all.

This is a teaching moment.... no matter how well you know the lake, you must always be vigilant and keep a good lookout.

Woodsy

[radioman]

Max, GM and tnx for the post. We will never really know. Still cannot get this off my mind.

[LIforrelaxin]

Those guys had been boating on the lake well before GPS even existed. They don't need one. Hell I don't need one, and I've only been out there for 8 years and driven through there hundreds if not a thousand times. That is not a difficult once you're used to it. Plus the Bear Island Post Office has a light on at the dock at night 24X7 year round that does a pretty good job of identifying where the gap is.

Everyone who has been there enough knows the only hazards to worry about in there is staying far enough away from the Pine Island and cutting out wide of the NW point of Bear. Those markers in the middle are for the mail boat and the mount. Shallowest point in there is maybe 8 foot deep.

GPS is no substitute for experience that is for sure. While I am planning on adding a GPS unit to my boat next year, it will also provide sonar, speed..... and I am doing it not because I feel I need it. But I am getting more adventurous at night. And going places that I don't often visit at night... and well the night vision isn't what it used to be..... When I am in the parts of the lake that I know well.... there is never a problem.....These two men where in an area of the lake they new well....GPS wouldn't have done anything in this case.... I will not even speculate what happened, other then to say it is a sad day, for the lake community.....

[MAXUM]

Max, GM and tnx for the post. We will never really know. Still cannot get this off my mind.

No we won't. However I also look at it this way, these guys enjoyed a full life, a wonderful friendship and were the kind of gentlemen we all should aspire to be. That's a damn good legacy to leave behind.

[Oblio13]

Those guys had been boating on the lake well before GPS even existed...
Me too. And yet I find them extremely useful, especially at night. At the very least, they've saved me from buying a couple props.

Once upon a time, I was a fighter pilot with visual acuity and night vision so good that people used to think I was doing magic tricks or something. Now I'm in my sixties, and I need glasses and feel like Mr. Magoo at night. Jim was in his seventies. Hal was in his eighties. They were both hunkered down on a below-freezing night behind possibly fogged windshields and fogged glasses. It's very plausible to me that they would cross-reference a GPS or a nav app on a phone.

... Everyone who has been there enough knows the only hazards to worry about in there is staying far enough away from the Pine Island ...
Hal's boat sank close to Pine Island. It seems likely to me that he had hugged those red-tops south of Pine in order to minimize time in the no-wake zone, and that Jim was planning to do the same. The short-cut funneled them right into each other.

[rick35]

I’ve never boated this late in the season but when I’m out at night I always pull the canvas back so I have a clear view around me. And that’s even if it’s pouring. It’s just too confusing with glare on the windows. I even installed dash light dimmers so I don’t get glare from the gauges.

[ishoot308]

This is complete hearsay so take it for what it's worth...I heard that Hal's boat had been experiencing issues and MAY have broken down and been without power. No power = no nav lights and Jim may not have seen him.

To me this does make the most sense but as I said earlier this is all nothing but complete useless hearsay...and at this point what difference does it make...

Dan

[iw8surf]

This is complete hearsay so take it for what it's worth...I heard that Hal's boat had been experiencing issues and MAY have broken down and been without power. No power = no nav lights and Jim may not have seen him.

To me this does make the most sense but as I said earlier this is all nothing but complete useless hearsay...and at this point what difference does it make...

Dan


For these individuals you are right it wont make a difference but finding out what truly happened if possible may help others avoid situations like this in the future by learning from it. Or at least help those affected get closure.

[Mr. V]

For these individuals you are right it wont make a difference but finding out what truly happened if possible may help others avoid situations like this in the future by learning from it. Or at least help those affected get closure.

The authorities will most certainly want to know the cause as possible criminal consequences could flow from the event (unlikely, if as it seems both of the operators perished in the accident), and of course there will always be lawyers waiting to pounce on the at fault party or his/her estate.

[Descant]

I don't know the families, but I still feel some difficulty expressing myself over this tragic event. My condolences to the families.

[Cal Coon]

For these individuals you are right it wont make a difference but finding out what truly happened if possible may help others avoid situations like this in the future by learning from it. Or at least help those affected get closure.I agree 100%. Unfortunately, by the time investigators piece things together, and find the cause of this, and other tragedies, the media has moved on, and what could be a teachable moment for other's goes by the wayside... Such a waste. Very frustrating. I guess the teachable moments don't get the same "ratings" as the actual tragedy when it happens. Gotta have priorities...

[dickiej]

George Carlin used to say the media isn't happy unless there is a hospital on fire and people are jumping off the roof.

[garysanfran]

Don't know if it has been addressed, but the very rapid assessment and finding of the second craft, I finding rewarding of very trained skills.

Thanks NHMP..

[gillygirl]

I think the takeaway from this is two highly experienced boaters were out on the water doing their best under all of the conditions presented to them, and yet this happened. The best we can do to honor them is learn from this tragedy once the results of the investigation are released and be uber-vigilant in the future.

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[TheTimeTraveler]

This entire situation is quite sad, and hopefully the lone survivor will be able to provide investigators some valuable information to assist in the investigation.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families involved.

[Barney Bear]

Please post any information concerning funeral arrangements for Hal and Jim when these become known. We have lost longtime East Bear Island neighbors and friends in this unfortunate tragedy. 🐻

[Taz]

This is complete hearsay so take it for what it's worth...I heard that Hal's boat had been experiencing issues and MAY have broken down and been without power. No power = no nav lights and Jim may not have seen him.

To me this does make the most sense but as I said earlier this is all nothing but complete useless hearsay...and at this point what difference does it make...

Dan

Years ago I was in Wolfboro bay with my wife after dark. It was very dark out. We heard some one call out but could not see anything from where the voice was coming from. We slowly continued to move and finally discovered a small 20 bowrider with a husband and wife aboard. They had no power and no lights would work. The did not have a flashlight either (that would be key) We towed them back to the town docks and they were very appreciative. He was a doctor but not sure where. Thank god we were not going faster or up on plane. This was not too far from where you would slow down to approach the docks. I will try to remember to always have a flashlight with good batteries.

[ishoot308]

Years ago I was in Wolfboro bay with my wife after dark. It was very dark out. We heard some one call out but could not see anything from where the voice was coming from. We slowly continued to move and finally discovered a small 20 bowrider with a husband and wife aboard. They had no power and no lights would work. The did not have a flashlight either (that would be key) We towed them back to the town docks and they were very appreciative. He was a doctor but not sure where. Thank god we were not going faster or up on plane. This was not too far from where you would slow down to approach the docks. I will try to remember to always have a flashlight with good batteries.

Yes a flashlight is a must at minimal...besides a flashlight I also carry a clip on set of battery nav lights similar to this... https://smile.amazon.com/Bright-Eyes-Portable-Marine-Boating/dp/B00WFMQNL6/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=battery+navigation+lights&qid=1573747849&sr=8-9

I also have a suction mount battery white stern light.

I have had them for a few years and luckily so far I have not had to use them. I change the batteries every spring...

Dan

[steve c]

http://www.bearcam1.com/
Marine Patrol on the cam. looks like they are running a search grid

[steve c]

looks like a search grid

[Phantom]

I thought the tragic accident occurred across from the Post Office …. not in the line of sight of Bear Cam ……… which looks in the general direction of FL#4 & FL#61

Am I mistaken ?

[steve c]

They were on that spot for almost an hour. I thought they might have had divers in the water but it was hard to tell for sure

[Bear Islander]

I thought the tragic accident occurred across from the Post Office …. not in the line of sight of Bear Cam ……… which looks in the general direction of FL#4 & FL#61

Am I mistaken ?

Captain Dunleavy told me the accident was right in from of my cabin. He wanted to know if I saved images from the BearCam. I told him I do not.

Reports have claimed the accident was just north of the mail dock. Once again, that is the area viewed on the BearCam.

If anyone is interested there are more views of the area available from my other cameras at www.bearfeed.com

[Cal Coon]

Years ago I was in Wolfboro bay with my wife after dark. It was very dark out. We heard some one call out but could not see anything from where the voice was coming from. We slowly continued to move and finally discovered a small 20 bowrider with a husband and wife aboard. They had no power and no lights would work. The did not have a flashlight either (that would be key) We towed them back to the town docks and they were very appreciative. He was a doctor but not sure where. Thank god we were not going faster or up on plane. This was not too far from where you would slow down to approach the docks. I will try to remember to always have a flashlight with good batteries. The best boating at night is on someone else's boat!! Personally, I fail to see the joy of boating at night, unless there is a really bright full moon, and even then not my favorite thing to do. Why go boating in pitch black darkness? I think you are just asking for trouble. Besides,I hate when the vinyl seats get wet with moisture/condensation when the sun goes down, you have the possibility of floating debris, and God knows what else... Not my idea of "fun". Would you drive your car in pitch black darkness with no headlights on...??? Whats the difference? No thanks. To each his own...

[Pine Island Guy]

I thought the tragic accident occurred across from the Post Office …. not in the line of sight of Bear Cam ……… which looks in the general direction of FL#4 & FL#61

Am I mistaken ?

According to the report, Hal's boat was found in 48' of water out in front of the red double boathouse on Pine Island, just north of FL4, which might explain why the MP was out that direction today. It must have been a fairly strong breeze from the south for his boat to drift that far before sinking.

The last time I saw Hal was 10 or so years ago when I went to his house on East Bear to pick up my parents who had attended his wedding that day...

It is all so very very sad and the world has lost two gentlemen that touched so many lives in such positive ways...

Be careful out there -PIG

[SAMIAM]

Each time there is a tragedy on the lake it sticks with me a little and I try to learn something from it. For instance, when the boater backed into his son on Paugus bay two years ago I decided to always shut down instead of going to neutral when there is someone in the water and I don't start up until I do a head count.
But i don't see a lesson in this accident. Two expert and experienced boaters in the wrong place at the wrong time in circumstances that would be hard to duplicate. So sorry for the families of these fine men.

[thinkxingu]

SAMIAM, there's a lesson here for sure, we just can't know exactly what it is. What we know is that two boats collided--what we don't know is why and how it could have been prevented.

For example, if it was "hunkering down" because of the cold, the lesson is to bundle up. If lighting, have a backup energy/lighting source. If it was fog/visibility, the lesson is to use sound and slow down.

I know I'll be reconsidering how I proceed when night boating for sure.

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[Kerk]

My first experience on Winni was in a PENN-Yann SWIFT just like the one shown! I put in at Goodhue & Hawkins and learned that first time How little I knew about the Lake. Water Skied around Locke Island & then went in to the store & bought a Lake chart/map.. Lesson learned !! kerk

[map]

I think the lesson here is don’t go out on your boat at night.

[ishoot308]

My first experience on Winni was in a PENN-Yann SWIFT just like the one shown! I put in at Goodhue & Hawkins and learned that first time How little I knew about the Lake. Water Skied around Locke Island & then went in to the store & bought a Lake chart/map.. Lesson learned !! kerk

Just to clarify, the boat in APS' picture is not anywhere near what Hal had. Hal's Penn Yan was more of a "day cruiser" boat somewhere around 22' and certainly had no performance characteristics whatsoever about it...

Dan

[Water Camper]

I think the lesson here is don’t go out on your boat at night.

That is easily said, but I have had numerous occasions where it is hard to help. We frequent our friends property on Cow Island near Hole in the Wall. My wife does not like night boating, I personally enjoy it.

Although we usually attempt to head back to our home port, Lakeport Landing Marina, in enough time to avoid darkness, we are not always successful. We have had several close calls in the area of Weirs Beach and Eagle Island due to inattention by other boat captains. Fortunately no mishaps.

I take it upon myself to be extra vigilant after dark, but I should and want to be able to enjoy the lake as much as possible.

Just my opinion,
Bill

[rick35]

Is it just me or is that photo of the Penn Yan causing the size of my ipad screen to change to fit it in and cause all the text to get much smaller? When I posted here I could barely read what I entered.

[Woodsy]

Unfortunately... there is a lesson to be learned from every tragedy. Especially a tragedy like this one that on its face seems purely accidental. I am sure the accident reconstruction team will do their due diligence, publish their findings and assign the proper blame in due time.

IMHO, the findings will show that neither party will be 100% at fault... but you can expect to see "too fast for the conditions" and "failure to keep a proper lookout" as the catchphrases used in the report.

Woodsy

[rick35]

I think the lesson here is don’t go out on your boat at night.

You could do that but when you live on an island that’s easier said than done. This time of year is very restricting if you can’t be out after 4:30. Maybe you should do things differently instead. Like having a set of battery powered lights. Like having a flashlight. Like having a gps when the blinking lights have been removed. Like changing the bow light and stern lights to led to eliminate blown bulbs. In the early spring you should boat differently when the water is freezing and when there’s a lot of stuff floating in the lake. You just have to be ready for what could happen. This would probably be a better new topic and we might all learn something new. For example, i’ll have battery running lights next season just in case. I learned that in this thread.

[rick35]

My previous post left out something important. I learned a lot more from this thread than just about battery lights. We all did.

[webmaster]

Is it just me or is that photo of the Penn Yan causing the size of my ipad screen to change to fit it in and cause all the text to get much smaller? When I posted here I could barely read what I entered.I've resized that image to a better size.

[rick35]

Much better. Thanks!

[upthesaukee]

Is it just me or is that photo of the Penn Yan causing the size of my ipad screen to change to fit it in and cause all the text to get much smaller? When I posted here I could barely read what I entered.

Same thing for me on my tablet, but at least I can "pinch " my screen to make it larger.

Dave

[kawishiwi]

You could do that but when you live on an island that’s easier said than done. This time of year is very restricting if you can’t be out after 4:30. Maybe you should do things differently instead. Like having a set of battery powered lights. Like having a flashlight. Like having a gps when the blinking lights have been removed. Like changing the bow light and stern lights to led to eliminate blown bulbs. In the early spring you should boat differently when the water is freezing and when there’s a lot of stuff floating in the lake. You just have to be ready for what could happen. This would probably be a better new topic and we might all learn something new. For example, i’ll have battery running lights next season just in case. I learned that in this thread.

All good ideas, but its a bit jarring to know that all involved were seasoned islanders and this still happened.
I thought fishing into the evening sounded attractive. The results were cetainly worth it but the 'easy' ride home was not. Even in good clear weather and running just on plane it seemed too fast for comfort. The first nav lights I saw were ASTONISHGLY close and it seemed they came out of nowhere. I was off plane the rest of the way in. An unlit canoe or kayak could slip under your keel too easily. Yeah, it would be largely "their" fault but I dont want to live with that regardless.

[Mr. V]

An unlit canoe or kayak could slip under your keel too easily.

Or a sailboat.

We were sailing on the big lake at night, navigation lights lit, and were almost run down and killed by some inattentive idiot in a cabin cruiser.

[fatlazyless]

For paddling or rowing at dusk, or at night, www.topkayaker.com at 1805 Rt-16 in Center Ossipee NH has a number of high quality, battery powered l.e.d. navigation lights which show brighter than the old incandescent bulb lights. In the Safety Gear section...

For a kayak or stand up paddle board, a bright white l.e.d. navigation light can maybe make the difference between being seen, or becoming a "speed bump."

For $19.99 check out the 'c-strobe with c-clip' that's powered by two AA batteries, not included, and flashes with 45-lumens white light ..... hand held ... you can wave it around and pray you don't get hit ....... or attach it to your pfd ..... does not float .... "has intense strobe light visible up to 2-miles."

www.topkayaker.net

[Barney Bear]

Is any information available yet re funeral arrangements for Hal and Jim? 🐻

[Dhamma]

Is it even legal to be out on the lake with a canoe, kayak or sup after dark ? :eek:

Good question but if I was out in my canoe after dark I would be hugging the shoreline for sure. Cant really think of any reason to be out there in a canoe or kayak when its dark tho. Then again, the most dangerous thing I want to do these days is ride my bike down a dirt road during the day.

[Dad sold the C * C]

Is it even legal to be out on the lake with a canoe, kayak or sup after dark ? :eek:

Yes it is legal, with an "all around white light". Not nessisaraly a good idea, but legal.

[fatlazyless]

Here on Lake Winnipesaukee, 99.44%-of all the motorboats keep serious attention to staying outside the spar marker buoys because there could be shallow rocks along the shoreline areas which makes for safe paddling close along the shore, within the spar markers.

Out in the motorboat zones, you can get hit on a sunny day just because the motor boater never saw you, and was not expecting a kayak/sup to be there. Motorboats and jet skis can travel along at 45-mph ..... while kayaks and sups paddle along at 3-mph.

Is similar to a motorcycle not being seen by a car driver; ...... say-hey ..... I never even seen it, there?

[rick35]

It’s very much not a good idea. I’ve had too many boats come too close during the day. And I have bright orange kayaks to help be seen better. A little white light is not enough. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

[MAXUM]

For paddling or rowing at dusk, or at night, www.topkayaker.com at 1805 Rt-16 in Center Ossipee NH has a number of high quality, battery powered l.e.d. navigation lights which show brighter than the old incandescent bulb lights. In the Safety Gear section...

For a kayak or stand up paddle board, a bright white l.e.d. navigation light can maybe make the difference between being seen, or becoming a "speed bump."

For $19.99 check out the 'c-strobe with c-clip' that's powered by two AA batteries, not included, and flashes with 45-lumens white light ..... hand held ... you can wave it around and pray you don't get hit ....... or attach it to your pfd ..... does not float .... "has intense strobe light visible up to 2-miles."

www.topkayaker.net

And this is exactly why people get hurt or killed. This is the most insane, incoherent and stupid suggestions ranking right up there with the foam noodle nonsense. Yes please go out at night in a kayak, canoe or even better one of those ridiculously unstable stand up boards I mean what could POSSIBLY go wrong? Hmmm wait for it, yup speed bump..... the only thing you got accurate is do this and you better damn well pray you don't get hit.

People that do this are the very fruitcakes you see on TV on the 6PM news wondering why a disaster occurred. Um DUH? Here you go, another Darwin award winner.

FLL - seriously please save us from more suggestions from the galactically stupid.

[fatlazyless]

FLL - seriously please save us from more suggestions from the galactically stupid.
..........

Hey Maxum buddy ........ Ebay.com has these 'ACR C-Strobe lights', a personal distress strobe light w/ a short lanyard, and two loops for attaching to a pfd strap, size-6" tube shape, works on two AA batteries, 45-lumens flashing white strobe light can be seen two miles across the water,

shipped from Tampa, Florida for $14.50-ea, shipping included.

Hey Maxum ..... is this a great Christmas stocking stuffer, or what!

At $14.50, shipping included, will be sold out soon, so don't delay your purchase. ... :D:
........

For a vessel stopped in a highly trafficked spot on the lake after dark, one of these small white strobe flashers could be very helpful ..... seems like a no brain-er.

[Knomad]

Just remember that the all around light must be mounted high enough to be seen for 360 degrees and be visible for a distance of 2 miles.

[fatlazyless]

Just remember that the all around light must be mounted high enough to be seen for 360 degrees and be visible for a distance of 2 miles.

For paddling a kayak or sup in the dark, what would work good is a baseball cap light, with the navigation light somehow attached to the very top of the cap ...... a nav-cap night light!

Ready for an extraordinary situation, one of these $14.50 psychedelic white, 45-lumens, C-strobe flashing l.e.d. beacons can be secured :idea: to your pfd ..... like, wow! ..... if you need to pray you don't get run over by a big, fast boat like it's going over a speed bump .... is right time to turn on this flasher beacon .... and continue to pray!

[Descant]

Two finer men, experienced boaters, met with tragic ends.
Frivolous speculating about kayaks and flashlights is embarrassing and should not be part of a solemn thread. Have some respect and start another thread if you have to drift off course.

[Biggd]

Two finer men, experienced boaters, met with tragic ends.
Frivolous speculating about kayaks and flashlights is embarrassing and should not be part of a solemn thread. Have some respect and start another thread if you have to drift off course.It's not only embarrassing but disrespectful.

[tcapano]

I agree 100%....this is not a game, and is definitely not entertaining. I cannot imagine what the survivor and other family members are enduring.

People really need to think about exactly what they're saying, and how it clearly comes across to others reading it. Saying "shocked" is such an inappropriate word to use. Thoughts expressed regarding and accident and death should convey sympathy, and heartfelt sorrow.

[Descant]

People really need to think about exactly what they're saying, and how it clearly comes across to others reading it. Saying "shocked" is such an inappropriate word to use. Thoughts expressed regarding and accident and death should convey sympathy, and heartfelt sorrow.

Thank you and welcome to the Forum with a thoughtful post..

[fatlazyless]

So, here's a question on this extremely unfortunate, sad, and unhappy collision: Were the two motor boats both moving along and collided head-on, or was one boat struck while it was stopped, or what?

[Wifi-1]

So, here's a question on this extremely unfortunate, sad, and unhappy collision: Were the two motor boats both moving along and collided head-on, or was one boat struck while it was stopped, or what?

Now we add sarcasim :(

[Bear Guy]

Obituary for Hal Lyon:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/community/obituaries/dr-harold-clifford-hal-lyon-jr/article_aadc8968-0b08-11ea-88be-4b036b54ef39.html

[codeman671]

Obituary for Hal Lyon:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/community/obituaries/dr-harold-clifford-hal-lyon-jr/article_aadc8968-0b08-11ea-88be-4b036b54ef39.html

Wow, what am amazing list of accolades. I never met him, but am sad I didn't. Such a loss to the community.

[Biggd]

So, here's a question on this extremely unfortunate, sad, and unhappy collision: Were the two motor boats both moving along and collided head-on, or was one boat struck while it was stopped, or what?You really need to refrain from posting on this thread. You just don't get it! :(

[Mr. V]

It's scant consolation, but it seems both gentlemen passed while doing the thing they most enjoyed while at their favorite spot on earth.

[hd333]

You really need to refrain from posting on this thread. You just don't get it! :(

So I’m kind of with FatLazy.

While this is a sad unfortunate event and my condolences go out to friends and family, there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions. This thread is about a boat crash and people have questions. Maybe a thread should be started to celebrate the lives of the individuals that were lost.

Take the names out of it and I think there would be some different reactions to this crash.

Examples:

Drinking always comes up in these type of threads, why not here? An operator runs into a breakwater at night and leaves the boat there and the knee jerk reaction is that the operator was drunk.

Common sense, why where people boating in these conditions?

Who’s at fault? Operator error? Mechanical?

Could this have been avoided?

All due respect to the deceased and their families but 2 people lost their lives here, families/friends lost loved ones. There has to be some lessons learned from this in addition to accountability.


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[Andromeda321]

So our place is on the stretch of mainland near Blueberry Island (if going straight from Bear), and one of our neighbors says debris from this wreck washed up all along the shoreline there. I checked this weekend on our shore and if it had, it was taken away by that point.

I mean knowing how the lake goes, I'm not sure if I could tell if debris was from this specific incident versus the usual flotsam and jetsam, especially considering the sizes of the boats involved and the distance. But wondering if anyone else encountered something.

[Onshore]

So I’m kind of with FatLazy.

While this is a sad unfortunate event and my condolences go out to friends and family, there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions. This thread is about a boat crash and people have questions. Maybe a thread should be started to celebrate the lives of the individuals that were lost.

Take the names out of it and I think there would be some different reactions to this crash.

Examples:

Drinking always comes up in these type of threads, why not here? An operator runs into a breakwater at night and leaves the boat there and the knee jerk reaction is that the operator was drunk.

Common sense, why where people boating in these conditions?

Who’s at fault? Operator error? Mechanical?

Could this have been avoided?

All due respect to the deceased and their families but 2 people lost their lives here, families/friends lost loved ones. There has to be some lessons learned from this in addition to accountability.




Perhaps the lesson is simply to remember that these things can happen to anyone. You can never be so skilled, knowledgeable, or prepared as to completely eliminate the possibility of finding yourself in danger.

(ps. How does one undo a "thank you"? )

[ishoot308]

Perhaps the lesson is simply to remember that these things can happen to anyone. You can never be so skilled, knowledgeable, or prepared as to completely eliminate the possibility of finding yourself in danger.

(ps. How does one undo a "thank you"? )

Very well said Shore things! Sometimes an "accident" is just that...an accident.

Dan

[iw8surf]

Very well said Shore things! Sometimes an "accident" is just that...an accident.

Dan

That doesn't mean there isn't a root cause to the accident that should be figured out and shared with the public to ensure others avoid a similar incident.

Just saying oh an accident is an accident is arguably just making an excuse.

One could even argue this- the two boaters were friends right? Well my friends who I have known for ever would know the path I would take across the lake because they have seen me do it or we have done it together numerous times. Could that have been a factor? The fact they had similar or identical thought of well lets hug this island coast at this point because they both knew it well and did it multiple times? Well then that would be a factor that put them in the same place as the same time because otherwise they would have completely missed each other right?

[Barney Bear]

Hal and his family have been friends and neighbors on East Bear Island for many years. We enjoyed holiday visits to his off-island home where Hal and his family would dress in period clothes, and old Christmas carols would be sung by all, and the best eggnog we've ever had was served. We will miss him. 🐻

[thinkxingu]

Sorry for your loss, Barney Bear--it sounds like Winni lost two great spirits.

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[MAXUM]

That doesn't mean there isn't a root cause to the accident that should be figured out and shared with the public to ensure others avoid a similar incident.

Just saying oh an accident is an accident is arguably just making an excuse.

One could even argue this- the two boaters were friends right? Well my friends who I have known for ever would know the path I would take across the lake because they have seen me do it or we have done it together numerous times. Could that have been a factor? The fact they had similar or identical thought of well lets hug this island coast at this point because they both knew it well and did it multiple times? Well then that would be a factor that put them in the same place as the same time because otherwise they would have completely missed each other right?

I'm sure at some point these details will come out. It would be prudent to allow law enforcement to do a complete and thorough "official" investigation which doesn't happen quickly as seen on TV. This would include as many unbiased facts based on the evidence gathered, observation of the site where it occurred and whatever information the surviving witness had to offer as well. There is an awful lot of speculation out there as to what could have happened or conclusions being drawn based on limited factual information that while maybe accurate is taken out of context and at face value.

You can bet if there are any lessons to be learned they will be made public in the aftermath of whatever facts come to light following this report, especially since one fact is undisputed. Both of the victims were seasoned operators very familiar with the area.

[radioman]

Max, well said, thank you. Fyi, great letter in recent Weirs Times by Tim Moore(page 2) The only thing left out was the fact that from year to year, Hal was so very consistent.

[Dhamma]

I did not know them so I cant comment on what type of men they were or how they lived their lives.
All I can say is that the Buddha taught his followers to every single day think that, that day is the day they could die. And to think of all the ways they could lose their life on that day. Illness, accident, snake bite, murder. The many ways that the end could come at any moment.

This kept them grounded to the reality of how impermanent life was,and so at the end, they wouldn't be so surprised.

I didn't know them. But I hope they knew this.

[hilltopper]

Max, well said, thank you. Fyi, great letter in recent Weirs Times by Tim Moore(page 2) The only thing left out was the fact that from year to year, Hal was so very consistent.

Do you have a link to this article?

[joey2665]

Do you have a link to this article?

https://weirs.com

It's in the 11/21/19 issue on the right side of the home page

[Janet]

http://www.bearcam1.com/
Marine Patrol on the cam. looks like they are running a search grid

The Bear Cam shows Marine Patrol out again this morning running a search grid. A reminder of a tragic accident.

[Barney Bear]

At 5:00, WMUR had a piece on the recovery of Hal Lyon's boat today just off the north end of Bear Island. The boat is totally destroyed. We miss Hal and Jim. 🐻

[Jeanzb1]

Thank you for the post. I think about this tragedy every single day.


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[TiltonBB]

WMUR Story.

Boat looks rough.

https://www.wmur.com/article/2nd-boat-involved-in-fatal-collision-near-bear-island-pulled-from-lake/30188756

[Woodsy]

It will be interesting to read the NHMP report on the accident.... that looks like a pretty serious impact....

Woodsy

[LIforrelaxin]

I don't think the impact was as great as some of you may think. It only have to be significant enough to start the sinking process. Through the process involved heading to the bottom, and then of course touching down significant damage could have also happened to the boat that sank.....

[steve c]

If both boats were moving forward at even 20 mph that's still a significant effective collision speed. The damage to the Penn Yan is pretty symmetrical so it seems like a pretty square hit to me. Very sad situation

[ishoot308]

I don't think the impact was as great as some of you may think. It only have to be significant enough to start the sinking process. Through the process involved heading to the bottom, and then of course touching down significant damage could have also happened to the boat that sank.....

Your kidding right??... Did you see the bow of that boat?? Touching down on the bottom did not do that!

I agree with steve c that if both boats were going 20 mph or even less, the overall force of that collision is very significant. Similar to hitting a brick wall at 40 mph!

Dan

[Bear Islander]

The WMUR video report used several still shots from my BearCam at www.bearchow.com to show the recovery process. Kind of eerie to see a recovery just a few feet off of my dock.

[ApS]

That doesn't mean there isn't a root cause to the accident that should be figured out and shared with the public to ensure others avoid a similar incident.
Just saying oh an accident is an accident is arguably just making an excuse.
One could even argue this- the two boaters were friends right? Well my friends who I have known for ever would know the path I would take across the lake because they have seen me do it or we have done it together numerous times. Could that have been a factor? The fact they had similar or identical thought of well lets hug this island coast at this point because they both knew it well and did it multiple times? Well then that would be a factor that put them in the same place as the same time because otherwise they would have completely missed each other right?
Check out what the NHMP says at 1:02 in the WMUR recovery video.

https://www.wmur.com/article/2nd-boa...-lake/30188756

[steve c]

Bear cam snap shot

[Phantom]

in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?

[Woodsy]

in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?

Why? This forum had no problem debating the Diamond Is incident impacts etc etc! Double standard?

Bottom line is both guys made mistakes.... the accident report will bear that out! They never just blame 1 guy!

Woodsy

[fatlazyless]

The new light emitting diode light bulb technology that is slowly replacing the old incandescent light bulbs are much brighter, and much easier to see across the water, especially on a rainy, foggy night.

From my mega-mega-mega-mega multi million dollar waterfront location .... (every year or so, it gets another mega) I watch boats putt-putt past at night, all the time from a distance, and there is a big, big difference in the brightness boat light visibility on the boats, out there.

Sometimes, the old bulbs are not very bright even when brand new, plus the green, red, or white cover gets faded over the years which also lowers the visibility.

Whether you drive a boat or pedal a bicycle, if you go out at night, having some good, strong, bright lights can definitely make the big difference.

[Cal Coon]

in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?I'm sure the families have the same questions the rest of us have. Unfortunately, this accident could be a great teachable moment for the rest of us if all these questions can be answered. Especially since these two gentlemen were so experienced. The fact that this could happen to them could serve the rest of us well, (if we can get the answers to all these questions). It's ok to ask all the questions, just be respectful.

[LIforrelaxin]

Your kidding right??... Did you see the bow of that boat?? Touching down on the bottom did not do that!

I agree with steve c that if both boats were going 20 mph or even less, the overall force of that collision is very significant. Similar to hitting a brick wall at 40 mph!

Dan

Actually no I am not kidding, Notice that the hull is operated, the deck is already gone..... And I believe was gone as a result of activities the night of the accident.... Once the deck became detached from the hill all kinds of things can happen.

Given the damage seen on the other boat involved, I don't believe the impact was what people want to believe it was..... I don't think the impact separated the deck off the boat.... I think there was damage done during the sinking and recovery effort that has to be factored out to understand the impact of that night....

Once autopsy results and the investigation details made public, we will all be able to understand more about what happened that night.....

All in all this is a very tragic incident.

[Dave R]

The new light emitting diode light bulb technology that is slowly replacing the old incandescent light bulbs are much brighter, and much easier to see across the water, especially on a rainy, foggy night.

From my mega-mega-mega-mega multi million dollar waterfront location .... (every year or so, it gets another mega) I watch boats putt-putt past at night, all the time from a distance, and there is a big, big difference in the brightness boat light visibility on the boats, out there.

Sometimes, the old bulbs are not very bright even when brand new, plus the green, red, or white cover gets faded over the years which also lowers the visibility.

Whether you drive a boat or pedal a bicycle, if you go out at night, having some good, strong, bright lights can definitely make the big difference.

If you do upgrade your navigation light bulbs to LEDs, be sure to use USCG certified bulbs. Many non-USCG bulbs will cause interference with a VHF radio, rendering it useless. I realize that most don't use VHF radios on the lake, so it may not matter to you, but it might be a big deal for the next owner of your boat that needs help some night and is out of cell range (perhaps somewhere other than Winni) and can't get their VHF to work.

[ishoot308]

If you do upgrade your navigation light bulbs to LEDs, be sure to use USCG certified bulbs. Many non-USCG bulbs will cause interference with a VHF radio, rendering it useless. I realize that most don't use VHF radios on the lake, so it may not matter to you, but it might be a big deal for the next owner of your boat that needs help some night and is out of cell range (perhaps somewhere other than Winni) and can't get their VHF to work.

Great point Dave! The interference from LED bulbs can be significant!

I installed LED bulbs in my garage door openers and the range on my remote control was drastically affected. I basically had to be right against the garage door for it to work. It was the bulbs interference causing the problem!

Dan

[rick35]

Off topic slightly: I’ll be swapping out my garage door light bulbs this weekend. I thought it was strange that the range was so short compared to previous openers.

Back on topic: I replaced my bow light with led because the bulbs wear out when it’s inconvenient. Don’t have to hang out over the bow to figure out how to get the light apart or worry that I don’t have an extra bulb. And I have two stern lights in case one is lost over the side.

[8gv]

Great point Dave! The interference from LED bulbs can be significant!

I installed LED bulbs in my garage door openers and the range on my remote control was drastically affected. I basically had to be right against the garage door for it to work. It was the bulbs interference causing the problem!

Dan

Same here. The Led bulbs you want for your garage door opener have to have an FCC compliance statement on the box.

Back to the crash...

Is there a possibility that the bow of the boat seen in the video was cut to allow for the extrication of the deceased?

[salty dog]

Great point Dave! The interference from LED bulbs can be significant!

I installed LED bulbs in my garage door openers and the range on my remote control was drastically affected. I basically had to be right against the garage door for it to work. It was the bulbs interference causing the problem!

Dan

I just wanted to chime in. First, I'd like to state as all others have here; this was an absolutely devastating tragedy. Imagine a quiet uneventful evening suddenly transformed in an instant, changing lives forever. Secondly. I enlarged and tried to enhance the bow photo image. If I had no idea of the circumstances and saw this photo, I'd say someone took a Sawzall to the bow. (MHO). Third, quick reference to the LED changes; I recently replaced my garage door openers lights ( as Dan did) with LED's only to find the remotes were inoperable. I had to replace them with CFL's to work.

[DPatnaude]

Actually no I am not kidding, Notice that the hull is operated, the deck is already gone..... And I believe was gone as a result of activities the night of the accident.... Once the deck became detached from the hill all kinds of things can happen.

Given the damage seen on the other boat involved, I don't believe the impact was what people want to believe it was..... I don't think the impact separated the deck off the boat.... I think there was damage done during the sinking and recovery effort that has to be factored out to understand the impact of that night....

Once autopsy results and the investigation details made public, we will all be able to understand more about what happened that night.....

All in all this is a very tragic incident.

Other news articles indicated that the deck was removed previously by the investigators. The deck contained the light switches and was removed to verify position of the switches and I would guess to check their operation.

[Marine Patrol]

For the past month Marine Patrol has worked diligently to preserve the physical evidence left behind after this tragic crash. Due to the nature of the incident, unique circumstances and difficult conditions have made this a challenge.

Unfortunately, our society too often demands immediate answers, instant gratification, and timely rewards. If not provided...someone's not doing their job or there is a cover-up in progress! Folks, sometimes things take more time than we all can control.

Many people have offered their thoughts and theories as to the events of November 9th. Faulty GPS, medical conditions, paths of travel, lights, angles, etc., etc. Public speculation has served no purpose in this case. However, it has left loved ones seeking answers to questions that are based solely on ignorant, uninformed statements.

From the inception of this forum I have restrained from commenting on topics related to Marine Patrol as doing so would have only served to fuel meaningless (to me) debate. This case is different. Tonight I must say some of this debate has only served to hurt others. We are trying to get answers for two grieving families. I recognize this forum is the place to exchange ideas, opinions, and even theories related to boating accidents. However, in this case, the genuine intent of some authors has result in unintended reactions.

So moving forward, I ask you to consider calling Marine Patrol if you have FACTUAL information, information specific to the boat occupants, or the boats themselves. That is what will help investigators and the families. Ignorant theories based upon assumed facts serves no legitimate purpose...and in this case, has brought unnecessary pain on to others.

I can assure you that Marine Patrol has remained in contact with the Hanson and Lyon families throughout this investigation. Our highly trained investigators are committed to finding and providing as many answers as the evidence can offer.

For those of you who may have taken offense to my comments, feel free to contact me directly at 227-2110. My plea was not intended to offend you, it was intended to protect those who are grieving.

Thank you,

Tim Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain

[The Real BigGuy]

Thank you Captain!


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[Cal Coon]

For the past month Marine Patrol has worked diligently to preserve the physical evidence left behind after this tragic crash. Due to the nature of the incident, unique circumstances and difficult conditions have made this a challenge.

Unfortunately, our society too often demands immediate answers, instant gratification, and timely rewards. If not provided...someone's not doing their job or there is a cover-up in progress! Folks, sometimes things take more time than we all can control.

Many people have offered their thoughts and theories as to the events of November 9th. Faulty GPS, medical conditions, paths of travel, lights, angles, etc., etc. Public speculation has served no purpose in this case. However, it has left loved ones seeking answers to questions that are based solely on ignorant, uninformed statements.

From the inception of this forum I have restrained from commenting on topics related to Marine Patrol as doing so would have only served to fuel meaningless (to me) debate. This case is different. Tonight I must say some of this debate has only served to hurt others. We are trying to get answers for two grieving families. I recognize this forum is the place to exchange ideas, opinions, and even theories related to boating accidents. However, in this case, the genuine intent of some authors has result in unintended reactions.

So moving forward, I ask you to consider calling Marine Patrol if you have FACTUAL information, information specific to the boat occupants, or the boats themselves. That is what will help investigators and the families. Ignorant theories based upon assumed facts serves no legitimate purpose...and in this case, has brought unnecessary pain on to others.

I can assure you that Marine Patrol has remained in contact with the Hanson and Lyon families throughout this investigation. Our highly trained investigators are committed to finding and providing as many answers as the evidence can offer.

For those of you who may have taken offense to my comments, feel free to contact me directly at 227-2110. My plea was not intended to offend you, it was intended to protect those who are grieving.

Thank you,

Tim Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain It would be very much appreciated if Marine Patrol would give an update as to what is known thus far to end some of the speculation.

[SAMIAM]

It would be very much appreciated if Marine Patrol would give an update as to what is known thus far to end some of the speculation.

I have a different take on Captain Dunleavy's post.
I think it's perfectly normal that people would speculate about what happened and exchange thoughts on what might have caused the accident especially since it involved two experienced and well respected boaters.
I don't recall him responding in such a fashion (calling posters ignorant" when everyone was discussing the two other fatal accidents in previous years.
It wasn't a criminal matter and everyone was respectful to the families so I just don't understand what seemed to be such an angry response. I find it a little improper from a public official.
After all the thanks he got.....I'll probably get blasted but just my take on it.

[ishoot308]

For the past month Marine Patrol has worked diligently to preserve the physical evidence left behind after this tragic crash. Due to the nature of the incident, unique circumstances and difficult conditions have made this a challenge.

Unfortunately, our society too often demands immediate answers, instant gratification, and timely rewards. If not provided...someone's not doing their job or there is a cover-up in progress! Folks, sometimes things take more time than we all can control.

Many people have offered their thoughts and theories as to the events of November 9th. Faulty GPS, medical conditions, paths of travel, lights, angles, etc., etc. Public speculation has served no purpose in this case. However, it has left loved ones seeking answers to questions that are based solely on ignorant, uninformed statements.

From the inception of this forum I have restrained from commenting on topics related to Marine Patrol as doing so would have only served to fuel meaningless (to me) debate. This case is different. Tonight I must say some of this debate has only served to hurt others. We are trying to get answers for two grieving families. I recognize this forum is the place to exchange ideas, opinions, and even theories related to boating accidents. However, in this case, the genuine intent of some authors has result in unintended reactions.

So moving forward, I ask you to consider calling Marine Patrol if you have FACTUAL information, information specific to the boat occupants, or the boats themselves. That is what will help investigators and the families. Ignorant theories based upon assumed facts serves no legitimate purpose...and in this case, has brought unnecessary pain on to others.

I can assure you that Marine Patrol has remained in contact with the Hanson and Lyon families throughout this investigation. Our highly trained investigators are committed to finding and providing as many answers as the evidence can offer.

For those of you who may have taken offense to my comments, feel free to contact me directly at 227-2110. My plea was not intended to offend you, it was intended to protect those who are grieving.

Thank you,

Tim Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain


Curious as to why Marine Patrol felt it necessary to speak up in this particular instance. Where were you when the Diamond Island accident occurred as there were far more pages upon pages of speculation here in this forum than in this instance. There were deaths and grieving families in that accident as well....why the double standard??

[Roy_Hobbs]

To me, the point is that the conjecture is apparently causing additional pain to the families of those involved. Regardless of what makes or doesn’t make this different than past examples, I hope forum members respect the request,and assume positive intent from Captain Dunleavy.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

[MAXUM]

Just "speculation" on my part but maybe MP just wanted to let everyone know that family members of the victims are aware of and likely reading this very thread. For all I know some may be forum members that have actually participated.

I do not believe the intended purpose is to squelch discussion folks, rather acknowledgement of who is reading this, the reactions from some statements made and consider what or how something is said moving forward with that in mind. I don't think it inappropriate for a public official in this capacity to make such a statement. Is it really that abhorrent to some that Mr. Dunleavy show a little empathy for the families of the victims here at this time? That's pretty heartless if you think so.

I also don't see this at all as a double standard. Whos to say following those other investigations the fact wildly speculating conversations on a forum like this going unaddressed wasn't flagged as something that needs to be in the future if or when deemed appropriate?

I applaud the efforts of Marine Patrol and all other agencies participating in this investigation. Answers will come in due time.

[Barney Bear]

Hal Lyon was a participant of this informative forum, particularly making contributions about fishing. 🐻

[Marine Patrol]

I have a different take on Captain Dunleavy's post.
I think it's perfectly normal that people would speculate about what happened and exchange thoughts on what might have caused the accident especially since it involved two experienced and well respected boaters.
I don't recall him responding in such a fashion (calling posters ignorant" when everyone was discussing the two other fatal accidents in previous years.
It wasn't a criminal matter and everyone was respectful to the families so I just don't understand what seemed to be such an angry response. I find it a little improper from a public official.
After all the thanks he got.....I'll probably get blasted but just my take on it.

SAMIAM,
My apologies! My comment, "ignorant, uninformed statements" was directed at some of the conclusions proposed in this thread and not at any one specific member of this forum.

Ignorant statements are those made without specific knowledge in a particular field (in this case boat accident reconstruction, or without the benefit of seeing these boats in person).

At no time did I intend to insult members of this forum. Again, my apologies if my comments were misunderstood.

Tim

[ApS]

You see, seldom are we able to get the full story (or the "back-story") on events initiated by the MSM/media--especially those with boats in the "picture".

We are drawn to investigation, so we do what we can here. :o

[Phantom]

in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?

I applaud Capt. Dunleavy's intent ……….. I tried the same thing last Thursday but got a "thread lashing" from many & so the debate and speculation continued !

Capt. -- it is good to know that you keep an eye on this Forum to gauge Public opinion.

[iw8surf]

Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!

[chipj29]

Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!

I took it as more of a request to be respectful of the victims and their families.

BTW, free speech has no application here on this forum. You are free to type anything you want. It's up to the moderator to determine what is allowed to be posted.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!

I believe that you are missing his message. C’mon, lighten up!

[TiltonBB]

Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!

The Captain was asking people to be respectful of the pain that the families are going through. He hoped that the speculation would go away for now. I am sure the correct information will be released when the time is right.

Read the entire thread and think about how you would feel about the idle speculation if it were one of your family members involved in this tragedy.

It is obvious, especially with his follow up post to clarify his intent, that his intentions were correct. The Captain should be commended for his post.

[Descant]

Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!

I think this is out of line. It is certainly inconsistent with the general intent of Capt. Dunleavy's posts. I have had many interactions with Capt. Dunleavy as well as Director Barrett before him over many years. They, and their officers and staff have great compassion and empathy for others. They are professionals and you don't go far in their profession without compassion and empathy. Thank you, Captain.

[BoatHouse]

Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!

Completely disagree with your message. My take is they are looking for people to be respectful of the families and do not speculate on something we have no facts or basis. Think from the families perspective

[garysanfran]

Doesn't mean there can't be consequences for what you say...Such as saying things in bad taste when proper decorum dictates speech moderation.

[Wifi-1]

Doesn't mean there can't be consequences for what you say...Such as saying things in bad taste when proper decorum dictates speech moderation.

One would think, but I don't see that happening around here much, consequences that is... :)

[skprbob]

All of our cherished freedoms come with the responsibility to use it wisely and I observe that freedom of speech is perhaps the most abused.

We also need to remember Sherlock Holmes' First Rule: "It is a capital error to theorize in advance of the facts."