Bahre Property Sold

[Senter Cove Guy]

Can anyone confirm?

[winterh]

Sold for 5,600,000 I think that is just the main house as they split it into 2 listings a while back. A lot right next to it also sold for just over 1,000,000 so maybe same buyer who felt he needed a bit more space. Seems like a great deal if ostentatious hideous design is your thing.

[tis]

It is true according to Adam Dow, Realtor. It was sold by Bob Corsoni. (sp.?)

[fatlazyless]

'Long View' is the name of the big fancy-dancy mansion house there ...... and 'Long View' really has a loooooong vieeeeeew!

Back in July and August of 1964, as a summer camper at Camp Alton, I used to sit on that Clay Point embankment, close to where the three bay, boat house is now located, and look down the lake. On a clear sunny day, in the afternoon, I could see all the way down to the bright white Mount Washington cruise vessel at its' Center Harbor stop, which is maybe 12-miles down the lake from Clay Point ..... that view just keeps going and going and going ...... threading all down the lake there ......... a truly loooooooong vieeeeeeeew!

Understand that the one tennis court now present was also one of the three juniors' tennis courts from back in 1964 ...... one of the very, very few items that survived the demolition of www.CampAlton.com 1937-1992 .... and the design/construction of the big money 'Long View.'

From 1937-1992, there was like 300 campers and staff there for the summer months, returning year after year ...... and that got reduced down to a BIG ZERO with the recent owner. Hope the new owner gets some good use with their Long View purchase.

[thinkxingu]

'Long View' is the name of the big fancy-dancy mansion house there ...... and 'Long View' really has a loooooong vieeeeeew!

Back in July and August of 1964, as a summer camper at Camp Alton, I used to sit on that Clay Point embankment, close to where the three bay, boat house is now located, and look down the lake. On a clear sunny day, in the afternoon, I could see all the way down to the bright white Mount Washington cruise vessel at its' Center Harbor stop, which is maybe 12-miles down the lake from Clay Point ..... that view just keeps going and going and going ...... threading all down the lake there ......... a truly loooooooong vieeeeeeeew!

Understand that the one tennis court now present was also one of the three juniors' tennis courts from back in 1964 ...... one of the very, very few items that survived the demolition of www.CampAlton.com 1937-1992 .... and the design/construction of the big money 'Long View.'

From 1937-1992, there was like 300 campers and staff there for the summer months, returning year after year ...... and that got reduced down to a BIG ZERO with the recent owner. Hope the new owner gets some good use with their Long View purchase.One of the many resources for the average absconded by the rich. These things never come back.

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[Seaplane Pilot]

One of the many resources for the average absconded by the rich. These things never come back.

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“Absconded by the rich”? Seriously?

[Top-Water]

“Absconded by the rich”? Seriously?

Double thanks https://i.imgur.com/IAOltcn.gifhttps://i.imgur.com/IAOltcn.gif

[thinkxingu]

“Absconded by the rich”? Seriously?Yeah, lack of timing = questionable word choice. Replace with "swallowed by." Or is it that you're cool with awesome properties that provide priceless experiences to hundreds becoming singular estates? I get that it can happen, but I'll lament it forever. The best thing the US government ever did was create the national park system.

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[tis]

Local property taxes made the camps close not the "rich" who "absconded" the land. Yes, I know they could probably make more selling the valuable properties than they could keeping the camps open, but I still think a lot of them would still be here if it wasn't for the taxes. You notice most of the camps that are open today are non profits so they don't have to pay taxes.

[FlyingScot]

Local property taxes made the camps close not the "rich" who "absconded" the land. Yes, I know they could probably make more selling the valuable properties than they could keeping the camps open, but I still think a lot of them would still be here if it wasn't for the taxes. You notice most of the camps that are open today are non profits so they don't have to pay taxes.

Well, sort of. Keep in mind that for profit camps have to compete against non profit camps, in the same way that for profit health clubs have to compete against the YMCA. Even before you get to taxes, the need for a profit margin and return on investment make this pretty much impossible when other factors are similar.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Yeah, lack of timing = questionable word choice. Replace with "swallowed by." Or is it that you're cool with awesome properties that provide priceless experiences to hundreds becoming singular estates? I get that it can happen, but I'll lament it forever. The best thing the US government ever did was create the national park system.

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The State and Town of Alton had the same opportunity to buy this property as everyone else did. It was sold on the free market, and purchased by someone who could afford it, fair and square. As much as it’s the politically correct “flavor of the day” to think otherwise, working hard, earning money and becoming wealthy is still not a crime. Thank God for capitalism! There are still plenty of state parks and other public access points for everyone to enjoy.

[Descant]

"privately owned" camps were never big money makers. People ran them in part because they want ed to give an experience to children, and yes, they could live on the lake and make a little money. Then go back to their teaching job in September.
Fifty years later, you die (or move to AZ) and you have no next generation that wants to run a camp. There's a lot of land and a lot of deferred maintenance and costs are going up. Your kids see the land value and the dollar signs. Sell. Similar to what happened to family run motels that were condominiumized in the eighties. Taxes, land values, costs to upgrade and no interest in continuing the family business all came together at once. Remember old camps? Big dining hall, lodge, common rest room facilities? Cabins without sprinklers, inadequate exits for sleeping quarters. Now you have to put sprinklers in all these buildings, depending on the town, I guess. That means laying new pressure water lines, new septics, maybe ADA facilities. It's a long list. Taxes, yes, but so much more.

[Mr. V]

As much as it’s the politically correct “flavor of the day” to think otherwise, working hard, earning money and becoming wealthy is still not a crime. Thank God for capitalism! .

Indeed.

A corollary to "Live free or die" has to be "let the laws of supply and demand operate without undo interference."

Is this a great country, or what?

[Lakeboater]

The State and Town of Alton had the same opportunity to buy this property as everyone else did. It was sold on the free market, and purchased by someone who could afford it, fair and square. As much as it’s the politically correct “flavor of the day” to think otherwise, working hard, earning money and becoming wealthy is still not a crime. Thank God for capitalism! There are still plenty of state parks and other public access points for everyone to enjoy.
I believe that the Town of Alton could of purchased the camp for a dollar but decided against it for some reason.

[Slickcraft]

I believe that the Town of Alton could of purchased the camp for a dollar but decided against it for some reason.

Oh and when was that? Was there a rejected warrant article? Some factual information would be appreciated.

[TheTimeTraveler]

I believe that the Town of Alton could of purchased the camp for a dollar but decided against it for some reason.

My guess is that they didn't want to take a valuable tax producing property off of the tax roles....

[Charlie T]

One of the many resources for the average absconded by the rich.

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Bring on the socialist agenda.

[The Real BigGuy]

"privately owned" camps were never big money makers. People ran them in part because they want ed to give an experience to children, and yes, they could live on the lake and make a little money. Then go back to their teaching job in September.

Fifty years later, you die (or move to AZ) and you have no next generation that wants to run a camp. There's a lot of land and a lot of deferred maintenance and costs are going up. Your kids see the land value and the dollar signs. Sell. Similar to what happened to family run motels that were condominiumized in the eighties. Taxes, land values, costs to upgrade and no interest in continuing the family business all came together at once. Remember old camps? Big dining hall, lodge, common rest room facilities? Cabins without sprinklers, inadequate exits for sleeping quarters. Now you have to put sprinklers in all these buildings, depending on the town, I guess. That means laying new pressure water lines, new septics, maybe ADA facilities. It's a long list. Taxes, yes, but so much more.

You hit it out of the park. Most of these older camps were run as something to fill the summertime. Profit wasn’t a primary motive. Unfortunately, when family doesn’t want/can’t afford to continue with something like this there aren’t a lot of options other than to sell the land. When you think about it, kind of sad commentary on where things have gone.


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[thinkxingu]

Bring on the socialist agenda.Yup. Because I'm disappointed in the loss of summer camps and public access in exchange for absurdly ostentatious compounds I must be a socialist.

I wonder how many people would complain if public ramps started to become private. There're a couple lakes near where I've lived with zero public access--that's awesome!

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[thinkxingu]

...kind of sad commentary on where things have gone.Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)

Exactly my point.

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[Charlie T]

Yup. Because I'm disappointed in the loss of summer camps and public access in exchange for absurdly ostentatious compounds I must be a socialist.

No because you are blatantly pitting the "rich" against the "average people". It's not a sin to work hard and enjoy the fruits of your labors. The property was on the open market when the camp closed. Many had the opportunity to purchase it including the town. A successful person stepped up and added greatly to the tax rolls of the town. It may not have been the highest or best use of the property but it happened and the town allowed it. Don't make it a Us against them. As much as we all would like to live at Lake Winni in the 1950's those days are gone.

[Top-Water]

Yup. Because I'm disappointed in the loss of summer camps and public access in exchange for absurdly ostentatious compounds I must be a socialist.

I wonder how many people would complain if public ramps started to become private. There're a couple lakes near where I've lived with zero public access--that's awesome!

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The same bitching would still be taking place if the town of Alton did purchase it and made it a residents only park. You would be pissing and moaning about that too. Kind of the same thing as the "Dive" restaurant boat on "your" favorite family sand bar that you don't like. But its ok to be top-less at the weirs beach

[thinkxingu]

The same bitching would still be taking place if the town of Alton did purchase it and made it a residents only park. You would be pissing and moaning about that too. Kind of the same thing as the "Dive" restaurant boat on "your" favorite family sand bar that you don't like. But its ok to be top-less at the weirs beachWhy would I be complaining about the town of Alton owning it? That would provide access for everybody. In fact, that's EXACTLY what would have fit into my worldview given my comment above about the best thing America ever did was create the national park system. That beautiful piece of property, like so many others, is (more than likely) lost forever.

Given the way support for public lands, parks, and access has been going in the last couple decades--and, to me, that includes things like youth camps and other programs that provide opportunities for the non-rich--an extrapolation for my children and their children is bleak. That's my point.

Much of my opinion is built upon the process I've faced when seeking opportunities for my children's youth groups, which is becoming exponentially more difficult given the shuttering, or rising costs, of access.

I have no idea of the connection between de-sexualizing the breast--or, more accurately, the quarter-sized areola that frightens so many of you--and being disappointed in the loss of public lands.

As for The Dive, I've, again, been more than consistent in my view: the business is fine, but staying at one location infringes upon the others who use or own in that location.

I was always taught that "your freedom ends at my nose," but that's swiftly becoming a thing of the past (since you know so much of my past opinions--weird, by the way--you might see that I've railed against portable speakers on hiking trails as breaking Leave No Trace).

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[thinkxingu]

PS For those of you who notice post times, it's 2:30 AM. I'm trying this new sleeping thing where I sleep in 2 sessions, and it's been great. OT, but throwing it out there for anyone who might not be able to sleep through a whole night.

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[joey2665]

PS For those of you who notice post times, it's 2:30 AM. I'm trying this new sleeping thing where I sleep in 2 sessions, and it's been great. OT, but throwing it out there for anyone who might not be able to sleep through a whole night.

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The flip side to your argument is that without some of these large parcels being developed and the tax income created the town would have to increase property tax across the board making many of the current homes unaffordable to those how have been around the lake for decades.


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[tis]

The flip side to your argument is that without some of these large parcels being developed and the tax income created the town would have to increase property tax across the board making many of the current homes unaffordable to those how have been around the lake for decades.


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That is very true, Joey. That is the problem with government owned property. It also goes off the tax rolls and makes our taxes higher. The flip side of THAT is sometimes it's probably a toss up if lots of houses get built on a large parcel of land. (unlike this piece)

[ApS]

PS For those of you who notice post times, it's 2:30 AM. I'm trying this new sleeping thing where I sleep in 2 sessions, and it's been great. OT, but throwing it out there for anyone who might not be able to sleep through a whole night.
I've been doing the same for several years. The draw of a morning coffee gets me up at the computer for two mugs. My Doctor (Family Medicine) says I need REM sleep—which I'm getting only minimally.

Why would I be complaining about the town of Alton owning it? That would provide access for everybody. In fact, that's EXACTLY what would have fit into my worldview given my comment above about the best thing America ever did was create the national park system. That beautiful piece of property, like so many others, is (more than likely) lost forever. Given the way support for public lands, parks, and access has been going in the last couple decades--and, to me, that includes things like youth camps and other programs that provide opportunities for the non-rich--an extrapolation for my children and their children is bleak. That's my point. Much of my opinion is built upon the process I've faced when seeking opportunities for my children's youth groups, which is becoming exponentially more difficult given the shuttering, or rising costs, of access. I have no idea of the connection between de-sexualizing the breast--or, more accurately, the quarter-sized areola that frightens so many of you--and being disappointed in the loss of public lands. As for The Dive, I've, again, been more than consistent in my view: the business is fine, but staying at one location infringes upon the others who use or own in that location. I was always taught that "your freedom ends at my nose," but that's swiftly becoming a thing of the past (since you know so much of my past opinions--weird, by the way--you might see that I've railed against portable speakers on hiking trails as breaking Leave No Trace).
Do some of us need to be reminded that the land surrounding Lake Winnipesaukee was nearly treeless only a few decades earlier?

Wolfeboro's "Lakeview Inn" is a case in point. (As is "Lakeview Drive" for its full length).

A 2-minute video from a California Indoctrination Center would have us believe that everyone will be extinguished in 12 years—anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL7GyRZ5Pn4

[tis]

That is so true, APS! Until I saw some old pictures, I had forgotten how few trees there were. You could see the lake from Lakeview Inn at the top of the hill on North Main St. (Now the Inn on Main) That is just one example, there were few trees everywhere.

[thinkxingu]

I've been doing the same for several years. The draw of a morning coffee gets me up at the computer for two mugs. My Doctor (Family Medicine) says I need REM sleep—which I'm getting only minimally.

No caffeine, that messes it up. ~10-1, 2-6 for me, with an hour bathroom/reading/snack break.

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[thinkxingu]

The flip side to your argument is that without some of these large parcels being developed and the tax income created the town would have to increase property tax across the board making many of the current homes unaffordable to those how have been around the lake for decades.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Agreed and understood. I'd love to know what the opportunity was to Alton and how it would've changed things.

I think I've mentioned it before, but my hometown has done a great job of securing public lands. We've got six nice properties, four of which are river front, that townspeople are always using to swim, bike, boat, ride horses, etc. I'm not sure what the overall effect on our taxes is, but it's one of the main reasons we bought here and they provide a ton of "town" opportunities, such as last week's winter festival, etc.

It's not easy, I get that, but it still makes me sad.

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[fatlazyless]

Seems like the new federal limit of $10,000 for deducting state and local taxes from your federal personal income tax for 2018 helped to drive down the selling price for Long View.

The Town of Alton will be mailing the new Long View owners a smaller property tax bill, compared with recent tax bills. Is this true, or what?

Alton selectmen here: :eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2:

[MAXUM]

Seems like the new federal limit of $10,000 for deducting state and local taxes from your federal personal income tax for 2018 helped to drive down the selling price for Long View.

The Town of Alton will be mailing the new Long View owners a much small property tax bill, compared with the tax bills for recent years. Is this true, or what? :eek2:

So you are now complaining about more affordable housing?

[fatlazyless]

So you are now complaining about more affordable housing?

Ya never know ...... with that new 10k max ..... maybe Long View will become an air-bnb weekly rental ..... to help pay those taxes above the 10,000/yr.

"Switching to a less expensive brand of tuna fish just won't do it ...... is time to go weekly rental and make some real money, honey ...... that prop tax bill comes in every three months, you know."

[upthesaukee]

That is so true, APS! Until I saw some old pictures, I had forgotten how few trees there were. You could see the lake from Lakeview Inn at the top of the hill on North Main St. (Now the Inn on Main) That is just one example, there were few trees everywhere.

If you take a walk in the woods and find stone walls that would seem to have no purpose in their location, think back to that time when there were very few trees. The land was farmed and the stone walls were constructed to keep the sheep in the pastures. (Crops can be grown in NH, and we all know that NH certainly can grow rocks and boulders, more than enough to build all those walls. )

Dave

[tis]

Yes, even in the 50s there were far less trees and more open fields. It's not like it was eons ago.

[thinkxingu]

Someone posted photos on Facebook of Mount Hale a few decades ago, when it was essentially bald. Now there are almost zero views. Crazy how quickly New England has moved from farmland to forest.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/16316918492?view=permalink&id=10157015687208493

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[joey2665]

Agreed and understood. I'd love to know what the opportunity was to Alton and how it would've changed things.

I think I've mentioned it before, but my hometown has done a great job of securing public lands. We've got six nice properties, four of which are river front, that townspeople are always using to swim, bike, boat, ride horses, etc. I'm not sure what the overall effect on our taxes is, but it's one of the main reasons we bought here and they provide a ton of "town" opportunities, such as last week's winter festival, etc.

It's not easy, I get that, but it still makes me sad.

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I understand it makes you sad. There needs to be a delicate balance between public land private and satisfy the budget needs. Unfortunately this isn’t easy and politics and agendas always gets in the way.


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[Slickcraft]

A deed recorded on 2/22/2019 was for sale of land only on Hopewell Road. Book 3223 page 305
Sellers: Sandra and Gary Bahre
Buyers: John and Marie Calabro of New Cannon, CT
Transfer tax $15,575

Also on 2/28/2019 land and buildings Book 3224 page 69
Sellers Robert and Sandra Bahre
Buyers: Jason and Maria Muise as trustees of Windham, MH
Transfer tax $84,000
Now back to speculation

[The Real BigGuy]

FLL - Remember it’s the assessed value that determine’s taxes, not sale price. Property tax bill will probably increase . . . It always does.


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[joey2665]

FLL - Remember it’s the assessed value that determine’s taxes, not sale price. Property tax bill will probably increase . . . It always does.


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You are correct but after the sale the town receives a copy of the closing statement and then reassess based in part on the sale price.


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[Slickcraft]

Link to tax card:

http://gis.vgsi.com/AltonNH/Parcel.aspx?Pid=2030

[Descant]

Most, if not all, large parcels of undeveloped land in NH are in "current use" tax status. If the land is sold, or purchased by the Town, there is little change in tax status or revenue. There is a "Land Use Change Tax" that applies when the land is taken out of current use (developed into parcels less than 10 acres) Many towns give all or some of that tax to the Conservation Commission so they can buy open space. Often, they manage the property as a tree farm and the harvest provides revenue to the town. As you move northward, Selectmen are less interested in buying and owning land because there is still a lot of open space. That will change as more intense development moves north.

[winni83]

“You are correct but after the sale the town receives a copy of the closing statement and then reassess based in part on the sale price. “

I not believe that the Town or the State receives a copy of the closing statement. The Town gets a copy of Form PA 34. The State gets Form CD 57 and Form PA 34.

See:

https://www.revenue.nh.gov/forms/real-estate.htm

[tis]

Adam Dow who is a well known realtor in Wolfeboro posted a picture of the Bahre house (the father's) saying it was so. And another realtor congratulate the seller. I don't think you need to doubt it was sold.

[tis]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157075345454583&set=a.454627304582&type=3&theater

[Toyorelle]

FLL - Remember it’s the assessed value that determine’s taxes, not sale price. Property tax bill will probably increase . . . It always does.


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Incorrect, transfer tax in the state of NH is based on the purchase price not assessed value. 1.5% split 50/50 by the buyer and seller.

[Charlie T]

Incorrect, transfer tax in the state of NH is based on the purchase price not assessed value. 1.5% split 50/50 by the buyer and seller.

Isn't transfer tax just a sales tax with another name?

[joey2665]

Isn't transfer tax just a sales tax with another name?

Yes it is. But after a sale the town always comes to the property to reassess the value and has access to the sale data from the transfer tax forms.

[thinkxingu]

Isn't transfer tax just a sales tax with another name?We don't have sales taxes in NH; it's a transfer tax. *Wink*

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[Biggd]

I guess I waited too long. I was hoping the price would come down to about a million then I was going to cash in all my IRA's and jump on it. :emb:

[Mr. V]

Really, who NEEDS a house that big?

[The Real BigGuy]

Incorrect, transfer tax in the state of NH is based on the purchase price not assessed value. 1.5% split 50/50 by the buyer and seller.



We are talking property taxes not transfer tax


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[Flylady]

If the town was collecting taxes on Longview for a much higher assessed value, then the lower taxes to be collected could result in having a higher spending budget than the revenue received. A.K.A. a budget deficit. Ultimately doesn't this then lead to more overall increases in the mil rate for everyone?

[gillygirl]

No caffeine, that messes it up. ~10-1, 2-6 for me, with an hour bathroom/reading/snack break.

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I believe in better living through chemicals. Trazadone is my sleep savior, and has been for 5 years now. I realize it doesn't work for everyone.

To get back on topic, I'm a democratic socialist, and I have no problem with what occurred at Longview, as long as Bahre was good to his employees and didn't treat them like chattel. I know someone who owned a home on the lake who thought her employees were an albatross 'round her neck. I abhor capitalists whose mind set is only take, take, take.

[MAXUM]

I believe in better living through chemicals. Trazadone is my sleep savior, and has been for 5 years now. I realize it doesn't work for everyone.

To get back on topic, I'm a democratic socialist, and I have no problem with what occurred at Longview, as long as Bahre was good to his employees and didn't treat them like chattel. I know someone who owned a home on the lake who thought her employees were an albatross 'round her neck. I abhor capitalists whose mind set is only take, take, take.

Anyone who thinks they are some how better than anyone else is a jerk. Doesn't matter their political or economic philosophy. It's a matter of human decency and respect for others.

I equally abhor those that think they are better because they are better off just as much as those who feel they are entitled because they exist.

[Descant]

If the town was collecting taxes on Longview for a much higher assessed value, then the lower taxes to be collected could result in having a higher spending budget than the revenue received. A.K.A. a budget deficit. Ultimately doesn't this then lead to more overall increases in the mil rate for everyone?

Assessments are made on April 1. Although a sale might affect the assessment, it doesn't take effect until the following April 1. Towns (& state/county) cannot deficit spend. That's just for the Feds. If the BOS sees a deficit coming, they have to stop spending. If they don't see it coming, they'll know when the Town Treasurer tells them the check book is empty. Some towns cut it close in December and have no money until the March Town meeting. They can carry themselves over with TAN's, Tax Anticipation Notes. Pretty rare since taxes are collected in December.

[webmaster]

Can anyone confirm?https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157075345454583&set=a.454627304582&type=3&theater

[TiltonBB]

Yeah, lack of timing = questionable word choice. Replace with "swallowed by." Or is it that you're cool with awesome properties that provide priceless experiences to hundreds becoming singular estates? I get that it can happen, but I'll lament it forever. The best thing the US government ever did was create the national park system.

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Well if you are concerned with "priceless experiences to hundreds" look no further than the Speedway in Loudon built by the man himself, Bob Bahre.

So if one were to compare the numbers and the people enjoying it, his investments have been a huge net positive, providing enjoyment to hundreds of thousands. Even though he sold the track, and attendance is down, many more people enjoy the track than ever would have gone to camp or a park in Alton.

Furthermore, numerous people enjoy shopping at the Hannaford in Alton that was also built by Bob Bahre. With grocery shopping so much closer, and more affordable for many, those people will have more money and time left over to enjoy the lake.

There are many other examples (One: He bought Oxford Plains Speedway in Maine in 1964) but after providing so much for so many I am glad that Bob Bahre could afford to build the property of his dreams for himself and his family.

[jazzman]

So oddly it was sold to a guy who seems to own a construction business for 5.6M. I wonder if a flip is in the works? I assume the place has been maintained over the years. There are always lights on and the landscape team spends all day Thursday there :)

I'd think the town of Alton will have to change the valuation to something close to the sales price given it took 4 years to sell. That will lose the town ~60k a year in taxes and I bet the other property will sell for even less.

I wonder how many dollars per night it cost Mr Bahre to stay there given the huge loss he must have taken? In the 6 years I've lived across from it there has almost never been signs of life there other than Nascar weekends and party he'd have every August.

[tis]

I don't think Bahre built the speedway. It was already there. I also heard, at least at the beginning, the taxes were a LOT more than 60 a year. Of course that could have been for all the houses and land. And maybe there were reduced as he fought for it.

[fatlazyless]

... the taxes were a LOT more than 60 a year.

And as everyone knows, starting with tax year 2018, due in April 2019, with the new tax law that was passed in December 2017, only the first $10,000 of state and local taxes are deductible from your federal income tax. A big change ....... and first real estate change like this since the 1913 birth of our federal income tax.

So, that will maybe lower the selling price for high priced homes? Wait and see?

Looks like the new owner is a home building company, so's could be it will sub-divide the open land, squeeze in another house or two, and not really care about the high property taxes since everything including the big house will get sold? As long as it still got that looooong vieeeeeeew! How's that for a plan, and then name them Long View I, II, & III.

If the town approves they could sub-divide and build condo town houses on the land out back, with eight condo town houses and a shared dock?

[ApS]

I don't think Bahre built the speedway. It was already there. I also heard, at least at the beginning, the taxes were a LOT more than 60 a year. Of course that could have been for all the houses and land. And maybe there were reduced as he fought for it.
Yes, it was.

It was originally known as Bryar Motorsports Park. I'd raced there twice before Bahre transformed it—then twice-again afterwards.

The road course is tight and there are highly desired "elevation-changes". :look: One fast turn has the narrow end of a "Jersey Barrier" sticking out! :eek: To reduce the unnerving effect on drivers, the exposed end was painted black. :rolleye1:

There were minor defects in the oval to which were accredited tragic crashes at high speeds; fortunately, the road course used only the "good" part of the oval.

There are probably other car clubs (other than BMW) that teach high speed car control—including a "Street Survival" Course—designed especially for teens. You can bring your Jeep. :eek2:

https://www.facebook.com/events/175272093197429

[TiltonBB]

It was Bryar Motorsport Park, built in the early 60's by Keith Bryar the owner of Belknap Tire in Laconia.

In the late 80's both the courses and the facilities had deteriorated due to a lack of capital investment. As a result, many series had dropped Bryar from their schedule, and motorcycles were the only vehicles still using the road course.

In 1989, Bob Bahre – who had previously run Oxford Plains Speedway for 23 years – bought the facility and immediately announced plans to transform it into what would become New Hampshire Motor Speedway.

[fatlazyless]

In 2008, Bruton Smith bought the speedway from Bob Bahre for $340,000,000., and starting in September, 2019, the September NASCAR event formerly held in Loudon NH will be held in Las Vegas, Nevada .... at another race track owned by Bruton .......which is one big reason why Mr Smith paid so danged much.

So, what do you think, for making money, what's a better spot for a big fancy-dancy NASCAR race ...... Loudon or Las Vegas ....... budda-boom ..... budda-bing ...... budda-boom ....... will the drivers puh-lease start their engines ......... thank-you! ..... and, what happens in Vegas ..... stays in Las Vegas.

[Biggd]

And as everyone knows, starting with tax year 2018, due in April 2019, with the new tax law that was passed in December 2017, only the first $10,000 of state and local taxes are deductible from your federal income tax. A big change ....... and first real estate change like this since the 1913 birth of our federal income tax.

So, that will maybe lower the selling price for high priced homes? Wait and see?

Looks like the new owner is a home building company, so's could be it will sub-divide the open land, squeeze in another house or two, and not really care about the high property taxes since everything including the big house will get sold? As long as it still got that looooong vieeeeeeew! How's that for a plan, and then name them Long View I, II, & III.

If the town approves they could sub-divide and build condo town houses on the land out back, with eight condo town houses and a shared dock?So we have a developer buying the property and possibly building multiple units that will surely bring in more than 10K tax revenue each but they won't sell because you can't write off more than that on you taxes anymore? I guess this developer is taking on a terrible risk. :confused: You should school him on this new law.

[fatlazyless]

That's all just conjecture about what will get built here, so just have to wait.

Off the top of my head, just guessing here that for the Town of Alton, a property has to be valued at about $750,000 to receive an annual property tax bill total of $10,001. or more. Probably, condo town houses would be way below $750,000. but maybe not?

You never know but maybe the big mansion house gets re-constructed inside into three or four smaller condo units ….. is possible? And they could call it The Big House at Long View along with a row of townhouses out back, in what is now a large grass lawn area with some super nice waterfront.


Working it with a construction loan from a friendly banker for 12%/yr?


To see it up close, go to a map for 'clay point, Alton NH' and snoop around with Google Earth.

[Biggd]

That's all just conjecture about what will get built here, so just have to wait.

Off the top of my head, just guessing here that for the Town of Alton, a property has to be valued at about $750,000 to receive an annual property tax bill total of $10,001. or more. Probably, condo town houses would be way below $750,000. but maybe not?

You never know but maybe the big mansion house gets re-constructed inside into three or four smaller condo units ….. is possible? And they could call it The Big House at Long View along with a row of townhouses out back, in what is now a large grass lawn area with some super nice waterfront.


Working it with a construction loan from a friendly banker for 12%/yr?


To see it up close, go to a map for 'clay point, Alton NH' and snoop around with Google Earth.These are second or third homes for most people so I'm sure all their property tax bills combined would exceed 10K. So I doubt this 10K write off limit would have any affect on prices at all. Rich people want what they want because they have the means.
Besides, President Trump has given the rich other tax breaks that will more than offset that deduction cap.

[tis]

From the Laconia Sun:

advertisement
While the property is assessed for tax purposes at $23,109,500, it is being offered for sale for $17.8 million — $31.2 million less than the $49 million asking price when it first went on the market four years ago. Two years ago the Bahres cut the asking price in half to $25.8 million.

Based on the current Alton tax rate of $12.86 per $1,000 of assessed value, the Bahres paid $309,280.17 in property tax. On July 30, the town of Alton reduced the assessment on the property by $936,400 and refunded the Bahres $12,092 they had paid on their 2017 tax bill.

I told you it was a LOT more than 60,000 a year! Now do you believe me?
I remember being told a long time ago he paid a thousand dollars a day in just property taxes to live there.

[Biggd]

From the Laconia Sun:

advertisement
While the property is assessed for tax purposes at $23,109,500, it is being offered for sale for $17.8 million — $31.2 million less than the $49 million asking price when it first went on the market four years ago. Two years ago the Bahres cut the asking price in half to $25.8 million.

Based on the current Alton tax rate of $12.86 per $1,000 of assessed value, the Bahres paid $309,280.17 in property tax. On July 30, the town of Alton reduced the assessment on the property by $936,400 and refunded the Bahres $12,092 they had paid on their 2017 tax bill.

I told you it was a LOT more than 60,000 a year! Now do you believe me?
I remember being told a long time ago he paid a thousand dollars a day in just property taxes to live there.Most people would be happy to make the amount of money he paid in taxes on a yearly basis.

[codeman671]

Someone absolutely stole it for $5.6mil. Look at some of the Governors Island properties and what they are going for. Bahre must have really wanted out of the place. I am sure he took a HUGE hit on it.

[Descant]

I doubt Mr. Bahre files only a Form 1040 and a few supplement pages. Trying to make his taxes relate to those filing a 1040-EZ just won't work. Skim through the assessment data base for lakeside properties and see how many are owned by trusts of various types, LLC's, other corporation types and partnerships. Many, many. Must be some reason, not all part of the attorney- CPA-CFP relief program.

[joey2665]

I doubt Mr. Bahre files only a Form 1040 and a few supplement pages. Trying to make his taxes relate to those filing a 1040-EZ just won't work. Skim through the assessment data base for lakeside properties and see how many are owned by trusts of various types, LLC's, other corporation types and partnerships. Many, many. Must be some reason, not all part of the attorney- CPA-CFP relief program.

I own my home in an LLC for many reasons including making the transfer much easier to my children after I pass and for tax purposes

[jazzman]

I imagine any plans to develop the property beyond it's current use would be very hotly contested. The neighbors (including the virtual neighbors just across the channel on Barndoor Island) already put up with years of noise when the original property was built. The town later denied the request to build a large building for Mr Baher's auto collection. I don't know if the current zoning would allow condos in the location or not. Hopefully the new owner just wants to live large on the lake or maybe rent it out as a corporate retreat

[The Real BigGuy]

Did the 5.6+ include the total property? I thought it was just one of the houses.


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[codeman671]

Here is a link to the closed listing. it shows 9.48 acres and 733 feet of shoreline with the one house. 142 Hopewell is still for sale.

https://www.neren.com/listing/144-Hopewell-Rd/57335a5fb46e6cdb9385e1b9

[The Real BigGuy]

Thanks


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[tis]

And as everyone knows, starting with tax year 2018, due in April 2019, with the new tax law that was passed in December 2017, only the first $10,000 of state and local taxes are deductible from your federal income tax. A big change ....... and first real estate change like this since the 1913 birth of our federal income tax.

So, that will maybe lower the selling price for high priced homes? Wait and see?

Looks like the new owner is a home building company, so's could be it will sub-divide the open land, squeeze in another house or two, and not really care about the high property taxes since everything including the big house will get sold? As long as it still got that looooong vieeeeeeew! How's that for a plan, and then name them Long View I, II, & III.

If the town approves they could sub-divide and build condo town houses on the land out back, with eight condo town houses and a shared dock?


How did you know the new owner is a home building company?

[Sam603]

His wife works hard and has done very well for herself, certainly not all builder/developer $


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[tis]

His wife works hard and has done very well for herself, certainly not all builder/developer $

Do you know who bought it?

[fatlazyless]

It was plain to see ..... from a post above with a link to the registry of deeds showing the property was transferred to Safari Construction in Windham. Hey, I ain't no real estate whiz, that's for sure, but it was plain to see it in that there link, there.


Looks like LONG VIEW will be going SAFARI ...... what will it, they, be hunting? Will the snipe hunts with 8-10 year old Camp Alton campers fanning out along the top of that tall embankment, armed with brooms, beating the bushes, looking for snipe as the sun sets in the west, be returning to clay point? Hey ..... where's the snipe ....... it's almost sun down?

[thinkxingu]

It was plain to see ..... from a post above with a link to the registry of deeds showing the property was transferred to Safari Construction in Windham. Hey, I ain't no real estate whiz, that's for sure, but it was plain to see it in that there link, there.


Looks like LONG VIEW will be going SAFARI ...... what will it, they, be hunting? Will the snipe hunts with 8-10 year old Camp Alton campers fanning out along the top of that tall embankment, armed with brooms, beating the bushes, looking for snipe as the sun sets in the west, be returning to clay point? Hey ..... where's the snipe ....... it's almost sun down?I pray they have snipe hunts. And campfire s'mores and flashlight tag and families with romantic childhoods full of adventure and mystery. Given my sentiments about value, I hope its used and loved and appreciated.

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[MAXUM]

I doubt Mr. Bahre files only a Form 1040 and a few supplement pages. Trying to make his taxes relate to those filing a 1040-EZ just won't work. Skim through the assessment data base for lakeside properties and see how many are owned by trusts of various types, LLC's, other corporation types and partnerships. Many, many. Must be some reason, not all part of the attorney- CPA-CFP relief program.


In the simplest of terms...

These are legal maneuvers people are taking to legally protect an asset such as a piece of property or any asset of significant value. It does NOT free them from tax liability or make the taxes being paid any less. The trust, LLC, LLP, corporation or owner in whatever legal format it is defined must pay the same taxes as everyone else at the same rate. In fact most trusts are established simply for the purposes of augmenting a will to pass assets to beneficiaries avoiding any kind of probate or lawsuit claiming a right of ownership outside what is defined within the trust itself. Nothing nefarious here, in fact in today's overly litigious society it's almost a necessity.

[tis]

It was plain to see ..... from a post above with a link to the registry of deeds showing the property was transferred to Safari Construction in Windham. Hey, I ain't no real estate whiz, that's for sure, but it was plain to see it in that there link, there.


Looks like LONG VIEW will be going SAFARI ...... what will it, they, be hunting? Will the snipe hunts with 8-10 year old Camp Alton campers fanning out along the top of that tall embankment, armed with brooms, beating the bushes, looking for snipe as the sun sets in the west, be returning to clay point? Hey ..... where's the snipe ....... it's almost sun down?

Thanks. Sorry I missed that.

[Slickcraft]

I pray they have snipe hunts. And campfire s'mores and flashlight tag and families with romantic childhoods full of adventure and mystery. Given my sentiments about value, I hope its used and loved and appreciated.

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In my experience with snipe hunting a burlap feed bag was essential to a successful hunt. Today burlap feed bags are almost as rare as snipe.
Oh sorry maybe off topic

[Descant]

In the simplest of terms...

These are legal maneuvers people are taking to legally protect an asset such as a piece of property or any asset of significant value. It does NOT free them from tax liability or make the taxes being paid any less. The trust, LLC, LLP, corporation or owner in whatever legal format it is defined must pay the same taxes as everyone else at the same rate. In fact most trusts are established simply for the purposes of augmenting a will to pass assets to beneficiaries avoiding any kind of probate or lawsuit claiming a right of ownership outside what is defined within the trust itself. Nothing nefarious here, in fact in today's overly litigious society it's almost a necessity.
I agree that the taxes must be paid. It's been a long time since I took accounting 101, but I was thinking more of business expenses that are deductible. Doesn't the 10;000 cap apply to individuals, not businesses? If I am a partner and we share the tax so my share is applied to my $10,000 cap, not to that of the partnership if there is a cap for them? I believe I could also transfer the property to my charitable foundation as long as the use falls within those legal parameters. When you reach this level, don't you have teams of CPA's and attorneys, not just some guy who does my taxes?

[Biggd]

In the simplest of terms...

These are legal maneuvers people are taking to legally protect an asset such as a piece of property or any asset of significant value. It does NOT free them from tax liability or make the taxes being paid any less. The trust, LLC, LLP, corporation or owner in whatever legal format it is defined must pay the same taxes as everyone else at the same rate. In fact most trusts are established simply for the purposes of augmenting a will to pass assets to beneficiaries avoiding any kind of probate or lawsuit claiming a right of ownership outside what is defined within the trust itself. Nothing nefarious here, in fact in today's overly litigious society it's almost a necessity.Not exactly, Corp and LLC tax rates have been lowered so if you're in a high tax bracket then you would pay less in Federal income taxes. The property tax bill would be the same but you can lower your overall tax liability with a Corp or LLC.

[MAXUM]

Not exactly, Corp and LLC tax rates have been lowered so if you're in a high tax bracket then you would pay less in Federal income taxes. The property tax bill would be the same but you can lower your overall tax liability with a Corp or LLC.

True but you are mixing property taxes with income taxes which are in no way related in the context of how much any entity pays specifically in property taxes.

[Biggd]

True but you are mixing property taxes with income taxes which are in no way related in the context of how much any entity pays specifically in property taxes.I understand that but the reason people use LLC's and Corps is for liability and overall tax burden purposes, esp now that Trump changed the tax laws. As I was reading this thread I think overall tax burden as well as the 10K tax deduction was being brought up.

[Sleezstak]

I find reading this post taxing.

[Biggd]

I find reading this post taxing.Property taxing or income taxing? :emb:

[Sleezstak]

Property taxing or income taxing? :emb:

Just all of it. Starting to think maybe I should start paying them.

[Descant]

True but you are mixing property taxes with income taxes which are in no way related in the context of how much any entity pays specifically in property taxes.

I saw the relationship in how to get a better deal i.e. where the $10K cap fits into your plans or if you can avoid it on your income tax, whether it be personal or business. Looks like the answer is, there are some options.

[fatlazyless]

You know ..... without doing much of anything in the way of re-construction .... this totally huge home has seven large bedrooms and a lot of bathrooms and a very nice kitchen with a huge refrigerator.

Why not turn it into a vacation rooming house, with linens, towels, an old canoe and kayak or two, and kitchen privileges included.

Attach a black marker pen on a 36" string to the edge of the frig, and let residents know they should label what is theirs; like milk, bagels, ice cream, yogurt, Marie Callender frozen $2.50 turkey pot pies .... to keep it a happy rooming house ..... the LONG VIEW Rooming House ...... come visit the famous Lake Winnipesaukee rooming house with the long view ..... for a single day, two days, three days, whatever, or a 7-day stretch, ..... as available.

And, what's the price per day, to stay overnight at Long View? Have to work that pricing out, over time, through trial and error ...... and just go with the flow? But, keep the price low to keep the occupancy high, and limit the stay to seven days per year, or something???

[tis]

I don't know if it shows in the pictures, but I thought it already had a second kitchen. So you don't have to share if it does. No markers, no strings.

[JEEPONLY]

Would a seven day rental be considered short-term?- and therefore controversial? :laugh:

[Descant]

I think anything less than six months is short term and requires that you pay the 9% Room and Meals tax. Short term may not be allowed depending on zoning in any given town.
Long discussion here"
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24027&highlight=rentals

[Descant]

$5.6MM, 30 years, 365 days/year is only $21 per hour. Plus tax and tip, of course.
My friend in Rindge will rent his castle, private lake, 500 acres.
https://www.vrbo.com/240837ha

[MAXUM]

Since there seems to be some confusion as to what value a property's assessed value should be....

As defined by the state:

Rev 901.11 “Fair market value” means the price property would command if:



(a) Sold by a seller who is willing, but not compelled, to sell; and



(b) Purchased by a purchaser who is willing, but not compelled, to purchase.

[fatlazyless]

Looking at the photo on google earth, it seems like a sure bet that another huge, super-duper waterfront mansion home will get built on what was the junior's softball field and is now the large grass lawn to the left of the big house.

Plus, some townhouse condos with deeded docks and waterfront could be happening for the center lawn area which was formerly, the www.CampAlton.com seniors baseball field and sprinter's track area.

During Capture the Flag Day-1964, I landed at the camp infirmary with some bloody chest scrapes, having missed a flying tackle on the hard pack sprinter's track area, there. Can remember getting bandaged up by the camp nurse, and that was the end of Capture the Flag for me, on that sunny, hot day in August. It was two intense months of Gray vs Green color war, and the Green team will bury those Grays!

Buy it with financed $5.5-mil, sell it all for $16.5-mil, 1-2-3 years later ..... and everybody ...... friendly banker, busy developer and sharpie town assessor is very happy .... amen!

[Top-Water]

Since there seems to be some confusion as to what value a property's assessed value should be....

As defined by the state:

Rev 901.11 “Fair market value” means the price property would command if:

(a) Sold by a seller who is willing, but not compelled, to sell; and

(b) Purchased by a purchaser who is willing, but not compelled, to purchase.

The above is supposedly the law ....... but reality is below :(


https://i.imgur.com/7gYKjwu.jpg

[tis]

That's a good one Top and just about right!!

[nj2nh]

One of the many resources for the average absconded by the rich. These things never come back.

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It was offered to the Town of Alton at a reduced rate. The town said no. Cannot blame Behre.


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[nj2nh]

Incorrect, transfer tax in the state of NH is based on the purchase price not assessed value. 1.5% split 50/50 by the buyer and seller.



He was talking about property taxes, not the transfer tax.


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[nj2nh]

I don't think Bahre built the speedway. It was already there. I also heard, at least at the beginning, the taxes were a LOT more than 60 a year. Of course that could have been for all the houses and land. And maybe there were reduced as he fought for it.



According to Zillow, taxes were over $130,000 in 2018.


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[Slickcraft]

I wonder how big a boat can be docked there

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24345

[fatlazyless]

.... big enough for the mail boat.

Back in 1964 .... only 55 fast years ago ..... Big Jeff would say something like: Ok .... let's get these canoes put away .... we need the outer dock clear for the mail boat.

That outer dock has deep water there, and the Uncle Sam was something like 70' long.

[thinkxingu]

It was offered to the Town of Alton at a reduced rate. The town said no. Cannot blame Behre.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=92687)Understood, hence my comment above about the connotation of "absconded" being imprecise.

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